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| New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 12-06-2017, 20:53 Edited by: bert.kassies at: 12-06-2017, 21:41 | The new 2017/18 rankings are now available. Due to caching of pages at the web server you might need to refresh the main page and the ranking pages. With the new season the listing of team coefficients has come to an end. It has been used since 1996 (the beginning of these webpages), but has become obsolete with the introduction of the new club rankings. The country or association part (20% of the country ranking) is no longer included in the club ranking, but is only used as a minimum. The yearly club pages now only list the club points. Also new is the 10-year club ranking that is used in the distribution of the revenue (30% of the CL revenue distribution and 15% of the EL revenue distribution). If you have any remark about data at these page being incorrect, incomplete, or out-of-date, please let me know. Of course, other feedback is also welcome. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: SirHenri
Date: 12-06-2017, 21:44 | Weird to see AC Milan benefiting with 42 Title-points. 140 instead of 98... |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: abakan
Date: 12-06-2017, 22:44 | About the Club Ranking : When does the Country Part become relevant ? Real Sociedad has a coefficient of only 8.500 but is ranked according to the Spain coefficient which is higher (17.799). Until they overcome the Spain coefficient (17.799), does it mean they will keep the national coefficient for draws ? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 12-06-2017, 23:38 | Yes, the country part of Spain (20% of the country ranking) is the minimum value for seeding of draws for Spanish clubs. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 12-06-2017, 23:53 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 12-06-2017, 23:55 | This means clubs will only have an own ranking once they collected at least the same amount of points as the country ranking. So for example for Spain clubs need 18 points by themselves (at this moment) to have an own ranking, else they will have 17,799. This means there will be not so many clubs any more with an own ranking. For instance for Netherlands only Ajax, PSV, AZ and Feyenoord have an own ranking. All other clubs just have the minimum country ranking. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Pixel
Date: 13-06-2017, 00:43 | the page ''seeding 2017/18 europa league'' redirects to any other site for several days  |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 07:23 | Pixel, I don't understand your remark. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 07:28 | @Forza-AZ Yes, that is true for seeding of draws. But all clubs that scored points are listed because it is also interesting to know how many points you still need before you are ranked above the minimum. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: abakan
Date: 13-06-2017, 08:32 | What about the 10 years ranking ? "Also new is the 10-year club ranking that is used in the distribution of the revenue (30% of the CL revenue distribution and 15% of the EL revenue distribution)." How exactly is it working ? What does 30% or 15% represent and who is going to benefit it ? Based on what ? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 09:15 | I don't know more details, but I suppose that means that 30% of the CL revenue is distributed among the clubs linearly based on on the 10-year ranking. Suppose Real Madrid and AA Gent both took part in the group stage, then Real Madrid will receive 10 times as much money as AA Gent of this 30% part. To get an idea check uefadirect 161, page 28. In the 2015/16 season total CL revenue was about 1350M euro. So, 30% of that (about 400M euro) will be distributed based on the 10-year ranking. The projected revenue for future years is much higher. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: PeteWisdom
Date: 13-06-2017, 09:48 | I still have doubts whether it's max(sum(club1 + ... + club5), sum(country_part1 + ... + country_part5)) or sum(max(club1, country_part1) + ... + max(club5, country_part5)) Do we have access to an official document that says exactly how the rankings should be calculated? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 10:20 | There are no official documents. But I have seen working documents where the minimum was given as "20% of 5-year NA coefficient" and "20% of 10-year NA coefficient". So, I am pretty sure that the calculation is correct, but I can't proof it. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: max.vel
Date: 13-06-2017, 11:27 | why this new raiting not include points for qualif. rounds, for example, team Dinamo Kiev (season 2008/09) 3.5 points for qual. rounds are lost (3 wins and 1 draw in 2nd and 3rd CL qual. rounds) |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 11:33 Edited by: bert.kassies at: 13-06-2017, 11:39 | That is not changed. Dinamo Kiev in 2008/09 scored 19 points for the old team ranking and the same number of points for the new 10-year ranking. Match results in qualifying rounds only count for the country coefficient. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Pixel
Date: 13-06-2017, 11:35 | @bert If i click on the button ''Preliminary 2017/2018'' --> seeding EL a page of this type appears: http://i.imgur.com/dopWbEe.png Instead everything ok for seeding CL... |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 11:38 | @Pixel Please refresh the main page because it's old. Some browsers even need 2 refreshes before they get the current page. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 13-06-2017, 11:39 | Milan and Inter behind Dinamo Zagreb in the ranking. Well that's a new one. I already made a printscreen of it. I see there will be plenty of unseeded clubs from Top 5 countries in the EL qualifiers and low seeded in group stages as a result of this change. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: LorenzoDK
Date: 13-06-2017, 12:07 | How are the points for the the 10-year club ranking calculated? as i understand the sum of 10 years points is the same used for the new team coefficient (without country ranking contribution), but what about the title-points themselves? For example, the 42 points for Milan where do they come from? thanks |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Funkmaster
Date: 13-06-2017, 12:38 | Thank you so much for this update, really appreciated. Now one big remaining question is when they will make the draws for the qualification rounds. For example they could make a "big draw" for all qualification rounds in June. Another option could be, that they keep the current drawing system and make the draw for EL-Q4 when the previous qualification rounds are already finished. This will have an huge impact on how high the seeding cut will be in EL-Q4. Does anyone knows something about this or have some further information concerning this aspect? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 13:22 | @Lorenzo: please check here for an explanation of the title points. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: executor
Date: 13-06-2017, 15:31 | What a massive change! It'll take some time to adjust to it  One tiny observation I have: in the 10 years ranking, I see a lot of teams with 0.000 coefficient, especially in the lower ranked countries. Is this a mistake or am I missing something? Removing them will shrink the table considerably. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 13-06-2017, 16:26 | @max.vel Wins and draws in QR's only count towards the country ranking, not for the club ranking. For that clubs only get points from the groupstage on, and bonuspoints if they are eliminated in the QR's. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 16:44 | @executor Hmm, I don't understand your remark. There are no clubs with a 0.000 coefficient in the 10-year ranking. Can you explain? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: max.vel
Date: 13-06-2017, 19:30 | i understood, thx. and one more question - 10 years ranking only for distribution of the revenue. for seeding - use 5 years ranking. Yes? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: putje
Date: 13-06-2017, 20:07 | This new ruling is resulting in a lot of ex-equos. Not only for teams of the same country. There are for example 8 teams with 3.5 points. Do we know for shure what the tie breaker will be? Last season ? Debrecen and Omonia are totaly ex equo on own team points. Country coefficient? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 13-06-2017, 20:11 | @max.vel That is correct. 5 year ranking for seeding, and 10 year ranking for money. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 20:29 | @putje No, we don't have specific information on a tie breaker. My code for the ranking list uses: ranking (max of total points and country part), total points, points in previous season(s). Beyond that it's arbitrary. And I always list the country line below clubs with the same ranking, but that's only for the list. So for your example of Debrecen and Omonia I have no tie breaker atm. For clubs of the same country with exactly the same ranking the order of the domestic league can be used for seeding. But that's not possible for this list. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: eoinh1
Date: 13-06-2017, 20:53 | About 10 year rankings. I thought revenue was about how far you got and the size of your TV market? No? I'm confused. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 21:02 | @eoinh1 That will change. The current distribution system is: 60% starting fee and performance, 40% market pool. The new CL distribution system for 2018-21 is: 25% starting fee, 30% performance, 15% market pool. and 30% coefficient. For EL the percentages are 30% market pool and 15% coefficient. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: executor
Date: 13-06-2017, 21:18 | Examples: AC Bellinzona, Djurgårdens IF, Queen of the South etc all have 0.000 total points (the further down you go, the more they are). |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-06-2017, 21:53 | @executor Ah, my bad. I see it now. That are 18 clubs that participated lastly in the 2008/09 season and scored no points. After that season it was no longer possible to score zero points, which implies that the problem doesn't exist for later years. Thanks for feedback, but I'm not sure yet if it needs a "fix". |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: eoinh1
Date: 13-06-2017, 23:07 | OK thanks |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: executor
Date: 14-06-2017, 12:43 | As you wish. I must be probably too accustomed to the old Team Ranking, I know there were no such cases. Those teams just take up space for nothing, but it's not a big problem. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: biagio
Date: 14-06-2017, 16:25 | I'm not gonna bring anything new to this discussion, but I just wanna say good job to Bert! You're the man! |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 14-06-2017, 19:31 | @executor The 18 clubs with zero points were removed from the 10-year club ranking 2018. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: SteffenM
Date: 18-06-2017, 01:27 | Awesome work Bert I don't know whenever it is posssible, to have both rankings visible until an official descision have been made? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: jooris
Date: 18-06-2017, 01:53 Edited by: jooris at: 18-06-2017, 11:52 | Hi! Great job! One question though. How are calculated titles points? 0 for Lazio (Cup's winner cup winner in 1999) but for Paris (C2 in 1996) |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 18-06-2017, 08:34 | @jooris Thanks for feedback. The points of Lazio were missing. That bug is fixed now. Please refresh the ranking pages to see the change. The calculation of title points is given here. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: erdinc
Date: 19-06-2017, 11:53 | @ Bert I have one question. The new rankings are super, but my question is on the timing. The regulations for 2017-18 were out already, as a part of the 2015-18 cycle. Shouldn't we still do these rankings according to the rules to be used as in the 17-18 regulations booklet? For the list to be used for seeding, most probably, an adjustment will be done prior to the next year's competitions to adjust them to 18-19 regulations and the listing you did reflects this adjusted state. But can we call it 17-18 club ranking? The financial ranking will be a totally different issue. Will any club question UEFA "Why are you distributing this year's money according to the rules which are not in effect yet?" Is this the ranking table for 17-18 season? My humble proposition would be to make the seeding list according to the existing regulations and probably add a column showing the adjusted value to be used starting from next season. Or make two separate listings - one for 17-18 and other for 18-19 rules. I am not familiar with the legal matters involving these regulations. I may be missing some information. I would appreciate if you elaborate on this issue and enlighten me (or us), please. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 19-06-2017, 14:21 Edited by: bert.kassies at: 19-06-2017, 14:23 | @erdinc The 5-year club ranking 2018 will be used for the seeding of clubs in the 2018/19 season. But it is not the current 2015-18 regulations that determine the method. The new regulations of 2018/19 will contain the method, and then the ranking will be calculated from past match and bonus results. Just like I do now. There is no need for adjustment. It's always last year's ranking that is used. For the 10-year ranking you might be correct. I don't think that the 2018 ranking will be used for the distribution of revenue of the 2018/19 season. But i'm not sure. It's one of those details that is not defined yet. But I agree with you that it is most likely that the 2019 ranking will be used for the distribution of revenue of the 2018/19 season. But nevertheless, now that the method is known, it's interesting to start now with the ranking. Just for fun. Not because it's needed  |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: eoinh1
Date: 04-07-2017, 22:35 | I like the new arrows Bert. Thumbs up. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: biagio
Date: 04-07-2017, 23:26 | Oh , finally the arrows. Now I don't have to compare all the coefficients every week to see who passed who. Keep up the good job Bert! |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: DIMA_AZERBAIJAN
Date: 16-07-2017, 19:29 | Bert way UEFA.com calculate old ranking sistem? http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/ |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 16-07-2017, 20:50 | Good question. Did you ask uefa.com? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: DIMA_AZERBAIJAN
Date: 24-07-2017, 22:56 | Not but can İ ask him? and way they calculate that? Maybe new sistem go to 2018-2019 season? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Pixel
Date: 03-08-2017, 15:12 | Guys do not understand one thing ... The year Club Ranking 2018 will be for the distribution of revenues ... but how will they regulate everything? example: Real 339.000 = how much money? Barcelona 296.000 = how much money? You already know the proportionality '' total points -> money '' or still not? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: luckyluck
Date: 15-09-2017, 07:43 | Question for the club points of this yaer. After the 1st round of GS of europa league teams have won lost or drawn their games and they all have a total of 2 points.All europa teams from place 33 to 80. What is wrong? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: executor
Date: 15-09-2017, 07:53 | Nothing is wrong. Teams that participate in ELGS are assured 2 pts for their team ranking. Basically, at the end of the GS, their points will be MAX(2, pts made on pitch). That's why every team has 2 pts after first game; they cannot have lower then this. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Rafy
Date: 27-09-2017, 10:41 Edited by: Rafy at: 27-09-2017, 10:45 | The club ranking at: https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html is different from: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/trank2018.html For example actual Napoli ranking point in first case is: 86.683, instead, in the second case is: 74.000 Uefa calculate the club ranking for this season still with old method. I think that the old method must be used for the past 4 season, therefor, is wrong also at: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/trank2018.html because is used the new method for all 5 years. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 27-09-2017, 13:04 | The ranking at uefa.com is usually less reliable then the one on this site. Also UEFA still hasn't anounced the new ranking system officialy, so that is also why they will keep using the old system untill the changes are final. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: anita3
Date: 28-09-2017, 18:51 | I wonder why UEFA changed the club ranking system, scrapping the country coeff. Now Garabag is ranked before Inter and Milan, and that gives no meaning. A ranking system should be based on the supposed quality of the teams, i.e. including the quality of the country league they play in. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: eoinh1
Date: 28-09-2017, 19:36 | But they will still have to have to battle through the preliminary rounds? I mean they will start at the level the Azerbaijan league is seeded at I assume. Otherwise its nuts. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: m-p3
Date: 23-10-2017, 10:14 Edited by: m-p3 at: 23-10-2017, 10:16 | http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html Coefficient calculation Clubs' coefficients are determined EITHER the sum of all points won in the previous five years OR the association coefficient over the same period, WHICHEVER IS THE HIGHER (under a new system introduced for 2018/19 onwards). For matches up to and including 2017/18 ... For 2018/19 matches onwards UEFA Champions League points system Group stage participation – 4 points Group stage win – 2 points Group stage draw – 1 point Round of 16 participation – 4 points Clubs are awarded an additional point if they reach the round of 16, quarter-finals, semi-finals or final. N.B. Points are not awarded for elimination in the qualifying rounds or play-offs, since those clubs move to the UEFA Europa League and are awarded points for participation in that competition. UEFA Europa League points system Preliminary round elimination – 0.5 points First qualifying round elimination – 1 point Second qualifying round elimination – 1.5 points Third qualifying round elimination – 2 points Play-off elimination – 2.5 points Group stage win – 2 points Group stage draw – 1 point Clubs are guaranteed a minimum of three points if they reach the group stage and are awarded an additional point if they get to the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 23-10-2017, 12:52 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 23-10-2017, 12:54 | Somewhat unexpected for me that UEFA have increased the points for the EL. Of course there is 1 extra QR, so they had to change something, but 1 extra point for each round (0,75 for Q1) compared to now is quite a lot. I think this is a good thing however to give clubs participating more chance to get above the countries minimum, and get a better ranking then new clubs. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Ed
Date: 23-10-2017, 16:37 | Btw the team ranking for the current season on the UEFA site still adds the country-part on top of the team-points. I thought this was not correct anymore ? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 23-10-2017, 18:51 | @Ed, on the ranking page Current season the country part is not included anymore. I guess the match points beyond the group stage are still included. Countries with clubs that usually are eliminated in the qualifying round will benefit from the higher Europa League qualifying points. A copy of the new ranking points text has been placed in the News section. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Ed
Date: 24-10-2017, 08:54 | Hm, must have been a cached page. I see now that both their current season and 5-year club-ranking page is without the country-part. Thanks. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: m-p3
Date: 24-10-2017, 16:01 | @Ed, no a cached page. They corrected the pages yesterday during the day.Since morning it was with the country-part, And in the evening it became without the country-part. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: m-p3
Date: 24-10-2017, 16:04 Edited by: m-p3 at: 24-10-2017, 16:05 | But the clubs are still sorted wrong. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: erdinc
Date: 26-10-2017, 09:42 Edited by: erdinc at: 26-10-2017, 09:43 | Sort is correct according to 2017-18 rules which adds the country part to all clubs. If they had added that total points column it would be less confusing. 2018-19 table will have 0.000 country points for the clubs with higher coefficients than their countries. So this is still 2017-18 table and will be used to set the seeding next year. Unless an adjustment made, Roma will be seeded before Lyon, Lyon will be seeded before Ajax and Olympiakos according to this table, because of their higher country points. They 25,26,27,28th in the table for now. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: primus
Date: 26-10-2017, 15:13 | @bert Is it possible to include old calculation e.g. "method4/trank2018.html" - so the club rankings for 2018 seedings are displayed properly? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 26-10-2017, 19:36 | @primus In my view that would only be confusing since they won't be used. Club rankings to be used for seeding in the season 2018/19 will be calculated with the new method (based on 5 seasons with club points calculated with the "old" system). |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: putje
Date: 29-10-2017, 21:19 | Bert, So UEFA uses the new points from '18-'19 onwards. The new, higher, points will be added year after year? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 30-10-2017, 16:18 | Yes, they certainly won't recalculate points of years past. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: erdinc
Date: 31-10-2017, 23:43 | Club coefficients of past 5 years can not be calculated using the new system. Clubs collect points in four different ways: 1 - Match points 2 - Bonus points 3 - Country points 4 - Consolation prizes The new system can be applied in first three cases but not for the 4th. 18 clubs collected consolation prizes when they were eliminated from 1st round at UCL and 85 clubs collected consolation prizes when they were eliminated from 2nd round at UCL during the last five years. 103 clubs' points can not be erased. Since there are no consolation prizes at UCL in the new system they can not be awarded according to the new system. --- This is what I think. 2017-18 coefficients will be used as UEFA posts at their site for the seeding next year. The upcoming seasons will be played with new system and the seasons with the old system will remain as they are and will expire eventually year-by-year. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: ththth10
Date: 01-11-2017, 06:32 | Dear Bert (and all others), Can you please explain to me the 'rationale' of this new system? "Clubs' coefficients are determined EITHER the sum of all points won in the previous five years OR the association coefficient over the same period, WHICHEVER IS THE HIGHER (under a new system introduced for 2018/19 onwards)." So you compare a SUM of five previous seaons with an AVERAGE of five previous seasons? Call it a gut feeling or something but this sounds/looks very strange to me. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 01-11-2017, 10:14 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 01-11-2017, 10:14 | Where do you see the word average? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 01-11-2017, 13:27 | @ththth10 Actually it's the country part that is used. Which is 20% of the association ranking. And like Forza said, the asssociation ranking also a sum over 5 year of coefficients. The yearly coefficents are an average over the points of clubs (tho these points are not the same as club points fro the club ranking). Anyway, the new system is just as "strange" as the old one. The old method added the two components, and the new method takes the maximum. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: ththth10
Date: 01-11-2017, 22:13 | So country part is 20 % of the country ranking. 20 % of a five-year period... I think you can call that an 'average' To all: What will be the effects of this change? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: DIMA_AZERBAIJAN
Date: 03-11-2017, 10:10 | Bert this season 2017-2018 in UEFA give Cempions League 1/16 round 5 or 4 bonus point? UEFA said 4 and you gave 5, which is right? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: rmsg
Date: 03-11-2017, 11:29 | CL Regulations Annex D D.5 Bonus points Clubs which reach the round of 16, quarter-finals, semi-finals or final of the UEFA Champions League or the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final of the UEFA Europa League are awarded an extra point for each such round. In addition, four points are awarded for participation in the group stage of the UEFA Champions League and four points for qualifying for the round of 16. 1 + 4 = 5 points |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: putje
Date: 08-11-2017, 19:52 | When I read this new reglementation, I see a hughe diffence with the actual situation. They write "group stage win 2 points" When I interprete this litterally, there are no more points for winning a game in the KO phase. Qualifiing with one or two wins wouldn't make any difference in this interpretation. Both give you one bonus point for reaching the next round. I don't think this will be actually the reality, and that they will stick to the actual reglementation. But I think that what I read is not what they mean. Or I'm I wrong? Because I haveto admid my English isn't top. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 08-11-2017, 23:28 | You read it correctly, however if you read the rules for the current season you see the same mistake there. It should read: "group stage and further" instead of "group stage". So it will still be 2 points for each win also in the knock-out rounds. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: erdinc
Date: 11-11-2017, 16:00 | @ putje Try to find the answers in the same page. Check the old system above the new system. If there is something in the old system and not in the new system, then there is a change. If there is nothing in the old system either, then there is no change. That page is incomplete, in many ways. They sort the clubs according to a total points adding th country points to 5 year totals, but they don't display this column in the page at all. They outlined the system at "Association Club Coefficient" page. In this page they should emphasize the changes and tell them only. If they want to tell the unchanged parts of old system, they should have told them all, not just group match points, or the bonus points. Bad editing job by the editor. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: m-p3
Date: 17-11-2017, 01:49 Edited by: m-p3 at: 17-11-2017, 01:49 | http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html Fixed. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Pixel
Date: 28-11-2017, 15:17 | by the way, I had a question about the tables proposed by uefa.com why in '' Association club coefficients >> current season '' to Italy put 54 points ?? https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/seasoncountry/inde x.html [6/6 - 12.000 - 54.000 - 9.000> I seem to understand that they do not add the 5 points of the Italian teams (Milan win, Atalanta win, Lazio draw) of the EL matchday 5 .... please confirm this ?? |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 28-11-2017, 16:45 | Yes, it looks like this are the standings before MD 5. If you look at other countries, then the points of MD 5 are also still missing. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: AlanK
Date: 28-11-2017, 16:54 | uefa.com is often very slow (remiss) about updating coefficient standings. Follow Bert's website, NOT uefa.com! |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Pixel
Date: 28-11-2017, 16:57 | Sin, from the official website I look forward to a better treatment |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: AlanK
Date: 29-11-2017, 15:34 | At Pixel: "Dream on, dream on, with hope in your heart . . ." |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: elkjiaer
Date: 30-11-2017, 11:54 | Hello everybody. Regarding the 2 points for a win and the 1 point for a draw, someone here said it also applies to KO matches and not only to group stage, but this rule do not apply to qualification matches right? I believe this is pretty unfair, since the "consolation" points eliminated teams get from Uefa are often lower than the "real" points. Take for example the 5 teams eliminate at UCL-Q1 this year. 2 of them made 0 points (2 losses), 2 made 1 point (1 draw and a loss) and 1 made 2 points (1 win and 1 loss). But they all got 0.5 points. So 2 out of 5 had an advantage while 3 got a clear disadvantage. If we really should give "consolation" points, those should be based on proper statistics. based on my calculation they should be around 0.8 for UCL-Q1 |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 30-11-2017, 12:57 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 30-11-2017, 12:58 | There are only points for the country ranking (1 for a win, 0.5 for a draw) in the qualifying rounds. Reason to not give clubs points themselves in QR's is to not give advantage to clubs which play a lot of QR's compared to clubs that were qualified directly to a later round. So I think it is fair to give all losers in the same round the same amount of points. The numbers are being increased by the way from next season on (untill this season; from next season on): CL-Q1: 0.50; ---- (qualified for EL-Q2) CL-Q2: 1.00; ---- (qualified for EL-Q3) EL-Q0: ----; 0.50 EL-Q1: 0.25; 1.00 EL-Q2: 0.50; 1.50 EL-Q3: 1.00; 2.00 EL-Q4: 1.50; 2.50 EL-GS: 2.00; 3.00 (minimum amount if clubs get less points in their 6 GS-matches) |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: elkjiaer
Date: 30-11-2017, 13:29 Edited by: elkjiaer at: 30-11-2017, 13:30 | Thanks for the very quick and detailed answer. I am just a bit puzzled by this 0.5 points. a two-legged tie consists of 2 matches. Each match has 3 possible outcomes, so in total we have 9 combinations. In 3 situations we have a clear winner (WW, WD, DW), in 3 situations the winner is unclear and depends on goal difference or penalties (WL, LW, DD) and in 3 situation a clear looser (DL, LD, LL). Let?s assume that qualification points are halved. So W=1 and D=0.5. THen in the last scenario (clear looser) you can make between 0 and 0.5 points. But in the "mixed" scenario one always makes 1 point (WL or LW or DD). The average of the 6 cases would be 0.7. But anyway: 1 case the team gets a coefficient higher than the real points made 2 cases the team gets a coefficient equal to the real points made 3 cases the team gets a coefficient lower than the real points made I think the biggest issue with those uefa club coefficients is indeed the combination of match points and bonus points. Think about this: this season England got automatically 20 bonus points having 5 teams in the CL GS. Spain got 16, Italy, Germany and Portugal 12 and so on. Most likely England will have 4/5 teams in the R16, Spain 2/3, Italy 2, Germany 1/2. This means other 5*5=25 bonus points for England and so on. If we look at the current https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/ccoef2018.html we see: Country BonusPoints MatchPoints England 35 54,5 Spain 26 53 Italy 12 47 Germany 17 26 Portugal12 27 France 13 36 So bonus points contribute in % to the total points as follow: England 39,1 Spain 32,9 Italy 20,3 Germany 39,5 Portugal 30,7 France 26,5 For those who don?t like numbers: number of teams directly qualified to the CL GS depends on the country ranking. Stronger countries qualify more teams---> get more bonus points--->get GS points--->get higher chances to qualify to R16--->more bonus points-->more match points. This means stronger countries will most likely stay at the top. THe points you get in the EL do not resemble even closely those you get here. |
| Re: New 2017/18 rankings | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 30-11-2017, 16:57 | That is true. The top 4 countries have 6 teams starting in the GS (CL or EL), so it will be very difficult for other countries to get into the top 4 of the ranking, since they will lose at least some teams in the QR's in most years. For me it would be better if more teams of the top 4 countries would have to play in the QR's, and earn their GS spot on the field. But that will not happen any more, because of the "political" power of the top clubs. |
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