Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

Author: tekumse
Date: 02-06-2008, 23:26

Bulgarian press is full of stories that CSKA Sofia has not received a license from the Bulgarian Football Union. Supposedly the teams has huge loans and has lied and tried to cover them. Other publications claim debts to the tax authorities and the National Insurance Institute( something like required employer provided disability and health insurances), and faking stockholder meetings. It seems like the biggest problem is not the huge indebtedness but the cover ups. Also their stadium is denied a license as well.

I believe this means Bulgaria would have no participants in UCL, just three in UEFA and 1 in Intertoto. I am not sure if that means that Basel would instead start directly in Round 3 and what other changes might occur.

There are rumors that Intertoto qualified Cherno More are also denied license from UEFA due to match fixing allegations in last year's Intertoto games. So it possible that Chernomoretz would replace them.

Author: Nick
Date: 03-06-2008, 05:59
Edited by: Nick
at: 03-06-2008, 06:19

Tecumse: Stop spreding bullshit. BFU president Mihaylov yesterday evening: "I don't believe there will be any problems with CSKA playing in the CL". Also read UEFA licensing rules. If you are denied a license you can APPEAL within 1 week. The CSKA case is still on the first stage. All the writings about this story are so incompetent that it's starting to scare me about the bulgarian sports journalism in general. Even if CSKA is denied license from the BFU licensing commision they will have the right to appeal it within 1 week to the Appeals commsision of the BFU. If they are denied again then it's game over. And UEFA (despite what bulgarian newspapers and sites continue to write) has nothing to do with this process. The BFU Licensing and Appeals commisions are the bodies to decide the case.
And the Cherno More case is even more obscure. The ONLY media spreding this is Meridian Match, which is a joke newspaper at best. You know as good as me that they are doing this on purpose. I searched really hard but could not find a single line on UEFA.com about Cherno More being banned or even investigated. The whole story is a pure joke even just because it is about fixing a R2 IT match last year. Meridian Match say that some bookies suffered because Cherno More won absolutely expected against a team from....FYROM. Yes, I also won this bet and odds for Cherno More were fantastic, but no bookie will ever let you bet more than 100 EUR on such a game, so the story about people winning millions and bookies going bancrupt is one great joke. Remember what Goebbels said: "Tell 1 lie 100 times and people will believe it". He was a nazi but he was right about this.

On a final note: Summer hole is really boring this summer. Bulgaria is missing Euro 2008, no real transfers so far. The newspapers need stories to fill their pages. If you have no stories you start to invent some

Author: tekumse
Date: 03-06-2008, 08:22

UEFA has very much to do with the matter since they make the rules about licensing. BFU is just supposed to enforce them. If it was up to BFU the licensing would up for bids and the top 16 will play the league even if their stadium was nothing more than a pasture field.

Considering this has been in ALL of press in Bulgaria I think it is reasonable to discuss the possible ramifications. I can easily pull at least 20 different news sites with the story. Plus it is not a huge surprise since CSKA's president keeps bragging how he is spending money like crazy while complaining that the owner does not give a cent. It seems logical that lots of money out and little in means big debt. On top of that CSKA basketball team was in the very same situation so it's not unheard of.

As far as BFU's presidents comments are concerned I am sure he was just meeting with CSKA's president to discuss gifts for the wedding of BFU's secretary to one's of CSKA's players. It's to be a huge hit on BFU if the country loses its UCL spot so he is not going to go public about until it's all over.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: Philipp Date: 03-06-2008, 08:40	as far as i know the 31st of May is the deadline for the national FAs to announce which clubs received a license.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: Victor Date: 03-06-2008, 10:10	@Nick Cherno more is surely out from Europe. Yesterday a member of BFU told coach of Chernomorets Dimitar Dimitrov to prepare to play in Intertoto. I know it from Hero.

Author: Nick
Date: 03-06-2008, 10:31
Edited by: Nick
at: 03-06-2008, 10:54

Victor: Hero

))))) Show me the article on UEFA.com please. I can show you articles on all banned clubs there. Supposedly Cherno More was banned 3 months ago. I can still find no proof on this on UEFA.com or any other official source like BFU.bg or PLF.bg. On the other hand: If CSKA gets no license then Chernomorets will play Intertoto as Cherno More will get a UEFA Cup place.

Tekumse: All mentioned articles are copy/paste affairs. Well, it's your choice if you want to believe a very odd site like sportline.bg over the president of the BFU. The serious sports sites like focus-sport.net or gong.bg have nothing like this! As soon as I see it on Focus-sport or Gong I will believe it. Yesterday I talked to T.Rusev (Gong) and he said to me they couldn't verify such info from the BFU, CSKA or UEFA so they decided to write nothing in order not to lie to the readers. As you know Gong have excellent relations with all mentioned institutions so they would be the first to get a confirmation...or at least long before jokers like sport1 or sportline

Author: Victor
Date: 03-06-2008, 11:14

Nick,
Well, u r right about the posibility Cherno more to play UEFA cup. I never tougt about this we r living in bg and our minds r full of bullsh..ts and is so close to realise.
But right now there one sure thing - Chernomorets is playing Intertoto. They already were forced to find a stadium, etc...
And the worse thing is that now we are tooooo close to the scenario - CSKA out of CL. And the result - the chief of Levski is one big lier - bg can't pass with no team in CL, so Levski is going to take the place. Except if Batkov is so stupid to leave Loko Sofia...

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: Victor Date: 03-06-2008, 11:19	Something more: If Cherno more is banned, it is the Licens comeete of BFU to decide it. No meter it is for coruption or financial problems. So there is big probablity BFU had kept silence because of an agreement with the bosses of Cherno more. Who knows?

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: Victor Date: 03-06-2008, 12:27 Edited by: Victor at: 03-06-2008, 12:27	So its oficial: CSKA SOFIA IS OUT OF EUROPE!!!! BFU said that the club didn't make it with the license so the team goes in third division directly What a shame!!!!

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: Victor Date: 03-06-2008, 12:32	Can somebody tell me if is obligatory bg team to play in CL or not?

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: executor Date: 03-06-2008, 12:34	Wow! I can't believe it! Is this for real? thought it was just a joke, or something that would be fixed. Can the champion go to the 3rd League?? Victor, yes. The next in League will take CSKA's place. IF this is true.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: bert.kassies Date: 03-06-2008, 13:05	Any links with confirmations?

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: duncshine Date: 03-06-2008, 13:37	Hi Bert Not official confirmation yet, but see Focus News If this becomes official, then it will be interesting to see the effect on the qualification for the Group Stages... Dunc

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: Philipp Date: 03-06-2008, 13:39 Edited by: Philipp at: 03-06-2008, 13:41	this site says, that there will be a press conferende at 13:00 http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bfunion.bg%2F&hl=de&ie =UTF8&sl=bg&tl=en so i guess Levski will enter CLQ3?

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: LevskiFan Date: 03-06-2008, 13:58 Edited by: LevskiFan at: 03-06-2008, 13:59	Yes..Cska is most probably out of Europe...plus out of "A Grupa"..... and Levski will replace them in CL...\ Cherno More maybe also out of Intertoto...in that case Chernomorets will replace them... NOTHING OFFICIAL YET THOUGH....!! still things are ongoing...everywhere they are talking about this huge scandal.... things are going nuts.... more info yet to come...

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: cattle_ripper Date: 03-06-2008, 15:55	it's up to UEFA to decide now.

Author: cattle_ripper
Date: 03-06-2008, 16:17
Edited by: cattle_ripper
at: 03-06-2008, 16:18

duncshine, that's not true. there's not the slightest chance CSKA Sofia will be out of Bulgarian first division, otherwise there will be no championship. i can guarantee that.

the whole story sounds ridiculous. CSKA Sofia had a 3 year old debt towards the public budjet - unpaid social security payments somewhere between 0.5 - 1 million euro acoording to different sources and this debt was accrued in the past by the previous owner. there has definitely been a contract between the club and the government social security agency these to be paid further in time. this was confirmed a couple of days ago be the agency chairman.

CSKA has played last year with these debts outstanding in UEFA Cup.

now the BFU license comission says - debts are standing, and there's no contract between the government agency and the club how to resolve them. so debts are present and unresolved, we follow the UEFA rules, and won't give a license.
the club at the same time pleas that had not been informed about the debts being needed to pay in time.
something stinks here is my bet. some interests might be involved.

CSKA now want a 2 day delay to pay. it's not a big sum at all. something like half a million euro at most.
it's up to uefa to decide, whether they play or not. not a chance that CSKA is relegated to amateur football in Bulgaria though.

it would be unfair, and would cause riots that will strike back at the idiots that might be tempted to do that.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: bert.kassies Date: 03-06-2008, 17:12	cattle_ripper said: "it's up to UEFA to decide now". Licensing of Bulgarian teams is up to BFU. UEFA has nothing to do with that. They only supervise the licensing process: check if everything is done according to the rules. They should in principle not interfere with individual cases.

Author: tekumse
Date: 03-06-2008, 17:39

It's hard to call this official document but here is a video of the pressconference of the Licensing commission today.
http://www.sport1.bg/sport1/popup_video?id=96258

The decision was made by the Licensing Commission of BFU and further confirmed by the Appellate Commission. They had send their decision to UEFA and they think that the process of licensing is complete.

The only other alternative is that BFU can write to UEFA to request deadline extension. And they have done so citing the history of CSKA and the assurances of CSKA executives that they can remedy the problems in just a few short days. Obviously there is no decision from UEFA yet.

The believe the offcial announcement is that out of the 7 teams that requested license for Europe only CSKA is not getting one. Levski, Litex, Loko Sf, Cherno More, Chernomoretz and Kavarna have valid documents. I have no idea why Kavarna even requested one since they play in the second league and lost the promotion playoff. Maybe it was back when they were semifinalist in the Cup full of hope that they might win the cup and qualify for UEFA Cup that way.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: Philipp Date: 03-06-2008, 18:13 Edited by: Philipp at: 03-06-2008, 18:45	what will happen, if Bulgaria will not be allowed to send a club to CL? then there is one team missing in CLQ3. so i guess UEFA would send two teams from CLQ1 to CLQ2 so that there will be one more team in the final qualifying stage. what do you think? btw: when in 2002 Austrian champion FC Tirol was relegated the runner-up and the 3rd-placed club took the two CL-spots.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: bert.kassies Date: 03-06-2008, 18:57	If CSKA did not obtain a license, the normal procedure is that the BFU can send the runner-up (Levski) to CL.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: LevskiFan Date: 03-06-2008, 18:59	Phillip, I assure u that if cska is kicked out....Levski will take their place. Thats 99% sure

Author: badgerboy
Date: 03-06-2008, 19:04

cattle_ripper wrote:

"CSKA Sofia had a 3 year old debt towards the public budjet - unpaid social security payments somewhere between 0.5 - 1 million euro acoording to different sources and this debt was accrued in the past by the previous owner. there has definitely been a contract between the club and the government social security agency these to be paid further in time. this was confirmed a couple of days ago be the agency chairman.

CSKA has played last year with these debts outstanding in UEFA Cup".

In the past (from 2004-05 when the Club Licensing system was implemented) two of the key (or compulsory) criteria were: "No payables overdue from transfer activities" and "No payables overdue towards clubs' employees". From 2008-09 a new Club Licensing Manual (Version 2.0) is being implemented. This says: "No payables overdue towards football clubs arising from transfer activities" and "No payables overdue towards employees and social/tax authorities"

So maybe that's the problem for CSKA compared to last year?

The additional bad news for them is that last year the Greek authorities issued a license to PAOK after the 31 May deadline & UEFA still wouldn't let them enter the UEFA Cup. Presumably their view is that the clubs (& authorities) have plenty of notice to "get their house in order" so why should they have to extend their deadlines...

Author: cattle_ripper
Date: 03-06-2008, 19:33

"Licensing of Bulgarian teams is up to BFU. UEFA has nothing to do with that. They only supervise the licensing process: check if everything is done according to the rules. They should in principle not interfere with individual cases."

True. But, there's one but, the licensing comission, which itself declared today "to work independently from the BFU, strictly following the UEFA regulations", denied the license, while yesterday the BFU sent a letter to UEFA to accompany the documents of the licensed clubs in which letter it tries to persuade UEFA to compromise their own decision and let CSKA Sofia in under the condition that they clear their debts in a few days which is quite possible, cause it is not an impossible sum to clear.

Sounds idiotic in fact, to deny the license first and then to plea in front of UEFA - let them in and I think CSKA are definitely out, but it only proves that the whole story has been well set-up by members of the BFU supporting other clubs interests. CSKA has not been the only club to have such debts. Levski cleared their own social tax debt a week ago, so the question is, who did what to inform the one club and not to inform the other.

In fact all the titles in the press are "UEFA denied CSKA to CL", while in fact it really is "BFU did it" and now is trying to hide their own decision behind UEFA's skirt.

It's a farce.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 03-06-2008, 19:44

UEFA CL regulations 2008/09 are quite clear.

Article 1.04 Admission criteria
To be eligible to participate in the competition, a club must fulfil the following criteria:
...
b) it must have obtained a licence issued by the national association concerned in accordance with the applicable national club licensing regulations as accredited by UEFA in accordance with the UEFA club licensing manual (version 2.0);
...
g) it must fill in the official entry form, which must reach the UEFA administration by 2 June 2008 together with all other documents which the UEFA administration deems necessary for ascertaining compliance with the admission criteria.
...

There is no procedure for special treatment or a delayed decision.

And finallly Article 1.07 says:
A club which is not admitted to the competition shall be replaced by the next best-placed club in the top domestic league championship of the same national association, provided it fulfils the admission criteria. In this case, the access list for the UEFA Club Competitions (Annex Ia) will be adjusted accordingly.

Author: tekumse
Date: 03-06-2008, 19:51

I think the trouble was a bit deeper than just the taxes. CSKA managed to clean some but not all because they simply do not have the money. The financial director today said they have 0.5 millions euro expenses per month. Yet for the life of me I can't come up with more than 2-3million euro tops revenues per year. Something has to give.

It is easy to win titles when your budget is more than those of the next two competitors combined. But not everybody has got an Abramovich to turn to.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: Bashmaistora Date: 03-06-2008, 20:27	By the way Levski's acting "owner" said they won't compete in CL, because they don't have good enough team for CL, and he will make sure Lokomotiv Sofia will play in CL if Bulgaria have CL spot

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: bert.kassies Date: 03-06-2008, 20:35	He can't. See article 1.07.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: Kaiser Date: 03-06-2008, 20:43 Edited by: Kaiser at: 03-06-2008, 20:43	Well, he 'owner' was just acting, after reading Bashmaistora's more carefully...

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: tanosan Date: 03-06-2008, 21:12	Well, it's official already - CSKA Sofia is out of Europe. I have to say that this a shame not only for CSKA, but for all Bulgarian clubs. I'm not happy with that nevertheless being fan of the big city rival - Levski Sofia.

Author: levski.bg
Date: 03-06-2008, 21:18
Edited by: levski.bg
at: 03-06-2008, 21:20

If we exclude all the fan rivalry from the debate, I think that is the perfect situation for changing the laws in here and for some new policy which will make not exception for a people without clear business and in debts.

Make the spanish model with democracy elections and strong restrictions for all unclear businesses and lets start from zero. Even with 10 or 12 clubs only, that is good, compared with the other alternative.

I am sick from the people like Tomov and Batkov in our football.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: Ricardo Date: 03-06-2008, 21:29	I made the changes in my sheet and it doesn't change much, except for the names. But it is a big shock

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: tekumse Date: 03-06-2008, 21:39	Cleaning up the Bulgarian football is impossible without cleaning up the country. Obviously high governmental official are allowing such debts to happen and then covering them up. And I am not only talking about the debts in forms of taxes and insurances. For some ridiculous reason the bank loans are guaranteed by government owned companies that have no business getting involved.

Author: levski.bg
Date: 03-06-2008, 22:00
Edited by: levski.bg
at: 03-06-2008, 22:10

Old truth that, where is too much (or even any) government property, there is a perfect place for corruption.

I fully agree that even this problem is linked with this. CSKA depends from a private (on book) steel factory owned by Mital. But he work with alot of still not privatised government firms, and now where the factory is in debt, the government will not close their business, because too much (15000) people will have to leave jobeless.

My prediction is that in the near days, all the CSKA debts will be sent to that factory and de facto will be payed from the taxpayers, who pay this government firms debts, because if Mital is in debt, he cant pay to the goverment firms also, who cannot stop working ..and voila.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: Edgar Date: 04-06-2008, 08:35	@bert I think you should also change this part in the Qualification page: "the champion of the 16th country on the ranking list (CSKA Sofia, Bulgaria) gains direct access to the 3rd qualifying round"

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: bert.kassies Date: 04-06-2008, 09:36	Edgar, ok, thanks.

Author: duncshine
Date: 04-06-2008, 10:37

@ Ricardo,

Just looking on my list (not as comprehensive as yours!)

It looks like both CSKA Sofia and Levski would be unseeded in CL Q3, so no change there.

However, if the seeding works and the Bulgarian CL team enter UEFA Cup Round 1, then it looks like Levski would be seeded to make the Group Stages, where CSKA would just miss out.

The changes to the direct UEFA Cup and Intertoto entrants don't seem to change any seedings anywhere.

Does that seem right to you.

Cheers

Author: dave_sheffield
Date: 04-06-2008, 11:49
Edited by: dave_sheffield
at: 04-06-2008, 11:51

http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/?action=read&id=107064

in this article is written that if CSKA will be excluded will be AC Milan to take this place.... and other italian media begin to talk about that. The reason is that since this year the rules say that if one team is excluded the place will be given to the best-coefficient team (not already qualified) not necessary it's from the same country.

To me it's 100% bullshit and would be one of the worst decision ever in UEFA history (i am italian but if something is unfair is unfair in any case).

Sorry for my bad english. Being not expert in rules i hope the one quoted by Bert is (as always) the correct one!!
Just reported it as i found....

Author: duncshine
Date: 04-06-2008, 11:57
Edited by: duncshine
at: 04-06-2008, 11:58

And see

Goal.com.

But I can't see this happening.

Firstly, there is the rule Bert has quoted above, that Bulgaria can nominate the next team down.

And also, I think there was a specific rule change after the Liverpool/Everton controversy a couple of years back stating that no more than four teams from one country can enter CL.

So, if the rule really is 'next best coefficient', then the next eligible team not already qualified or from one of the Big 3 nations would be Benfica.

So, let's wait for that report in the Portuguese press!

@Bert, I think you're right to assume that if CSKA is truly out, then Levski will take their place.

Cheers

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: Ricardo Date: 04-06-2008, 12:26	@duncshine, yes Levski would be seede in UC-R1, but they would have already if they started in UC @dave, if that would happen I will not beliebe anymore that Uefa is not corrupted. After the Milan entrance 2 years ago in CL I started to doubt a bit, but if that would happen again this year...

Author: badgerboy
Date: 04-06-2008, 13:07
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 04-06-2008, 13:11

Who on earth dares to come up with shite like that?

Some Italian Milan fan hopeful that if he starts a rumour circulating it might turn into the truth I presume?

I'm not going to waste too much stress on this at the moment as all logical evidence (the "real" UEFA rules - not those invented by the Italian journalist plus the past rewriting of the rules to ensure no country having more than 4 teams) suggests it's complete b****cks.

If it isn't Vesuvius was nothing...

And I assume that this from tuttomercato is quick confirmation that it was indeed total, utter & absolute shite...

Author: cska
Date: 04-06-2008, 13:34

Badger
I agree with you - I saw the articles on the site targeted by your link.
Tutomercato first states (in another article) that Milan should play in CL instead of CSKA and after that it says that the hope for Milan died before being born and that Levski will take the CL spot.
Funny enough, but in the "Milan must play in CL" the site states that in 2006 in a similar occasion, if Milan had to be expelled from CL, their place was to be given to... Lens from France, which is very funny.
Italians forget that French had just applied for the spot and that rules have nothing to do with highest coeff instead of domestic ranking as the criterion for sending teams to CL/UC.
UEFA never declares domestic rankings - even with the Calciopoly case in Italy, UEFA did not re-rank Italian teams. It was the Italian FA that was asked by UEFA to decide about the final ranking.
That is why the Bulgarian FA (like any other FA's in Europe) nominates officially the CL/UC participants.
In my opinion, CSKA will not be expelled from the top division. The club will receive license like PAOK (Greece) last year. But just like with PAOK, there is 0% chance that CSKA will play in CL.
It is not only about finance or indebtedness - even if everything were OK, there were deadlines, which were missed. And the grieving that "Bulgarian FA informed in time all clubs except CSKA" is quite strange, because if you know that your status is not OK, you should not wait someone to tell you "Be OK, please". Not knowing the rules or deadlines is not an excuse, because few simple questions (asked on time) would have solved the problem.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: dave_sheffield Date: 04-06-2008, 13:36	yes... in the last one quoted by Badger Boy they say it will be Bulgarian Federation that will decide the team that will play Champions League in place of CSKA... Sorry if i reported bullshit news but I had just reported the news how it was... And luckily it was 100%fake

Author: oggie
Date: 04-06-2008, 18:09

Not taking into account what is circulating through the bulgarian media i think the problem is far greater than some 500k euros or someone being disinformed etc. If it were due to some small debts someone would have covered it up very quickly, the BFU would have coved their ar*es and licenced them in a heartbeat. This said having in mind regular practices by the BFU who cover up scandals and licence all kindso of clubs and stadiums (i suppose most people know what kind of stadiums there are in Bulgaria). So what i think happened for the BFU to take such drastic measures is that there is a serious threat for the BFU itself and with it bulgarian football in general. CSKA's president Tomov (or whatever his position actually is) is basically a pathological liar and quite a shady character. There have been money scandals all season where players have protested about unpaid wages. I suppose the debts are huge and Tomov tried to file forged documents to try and cover this up.
As far as the domestic competition, i doubt they will send them to the amateur division unless there are serious implications from UEFA. They'll also most likely use loopholes in football regulations.
It's about time something started to give in bulgarian football. Years of money laundring, fixed matches etc...

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: levski.bg Date: 05-06-2008, 00:04	dave_sheffield: Thanks for the fair point, man. Grazie

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: oggie Date: 05-06-2008, 09:57	They are officially out of UCL and out of pro football in Bulgaria unless the BFU can come up with something

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: LevskiFan Date: 05-06-2008, 12:31	They should be out of pro football too...the BFU will not risk the football in Bulgaria. Sorry but thats how it is...all cska's fault...should've happened long time ago...

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: max Date: 05-06-2008, 13:22	Yes, officially, CSKA is out of the CL for 08/09 season, but they won't be expelled from A group (sorry to disappoint all lefski fans). Most probably till the end of next week they will be given a professional licence by the BFU.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: LevskiFan Date: 05-06-2008, 13:32	The only way BFU to allow ceseka to play in A Grupa...will be to hide some of the things. And when Uefa comes to inspect...the Union will be cought....and Bulgaria will be banned from UEFA....im sure thats what all ceseka fans want to happen now....

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: max Date: 05-06-2008, 14:00	LevskiFan said: "The only way BFU to allow ceseka to play in A Grupa...will be to hide some of the thing...bla bla..." Wrong!!! The only way for BFU to allow CSKA to play in A Grupa is CSKA to clear their debt. And as far as I know it will be done till next Wednesday. The good news is you still have 4-5 days to pray this won't happen

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: tanosan Date: 05-06-2008, 15:07	Does anybody know wheather a club not licenced by this procedure has right to play in the domestic championship?

Author: levski.bg
Date: 05-06-2008, 15:34

According to our Licensing Committee, CSKA will not have a right to gain a local license, if they are not licensed from UEFA. But that is possible, according to our domestic regulations, with a risk for BFU ban from UEFA and all the other clubs.

But I dont trust too much on this committee anyway, since they mention that Levski will not have a right to play in Champions League, but later reading on UEFA regulations made this statement to look not very correct.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: max Date: 05-06-2008, 15:53	A ban from European competitions doesn't automatically mean the team is banned from domestic leagues. A perfect example is the PAOK case from last season. They didn't get licence for UEFA cup, but played in Greek Super League.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: levski.bg Date: 05-06-2008, 16:12	So, if I understand correctly, if CSKA manage to clear their debts on time, they will play in our First League. But if not, they still can have that right (if BFU take such decision which will be not againts the local regulations)... And UEFA (like a supervisor), cannot intervene in local case, if they are according to local rules.

Author: cska
Date: 05-06-2008, 16:50

Well, thigs are going to resemble the case of Fiorentina few years ago...
The fact is that CSKA was refused a license because of unsettlet debts to tax and social security authorities. However, that 0,5 M euro is not the big problem. The problem is with the 10,5 M euro debt to banks plus 400 K eur debt to the National Agency for Youth and Sports (for the rent of the Bulgarian Army stadium). Also, there is a problem with a debt of 2,5 M euro accrued by the former former owner (the one before the former one) - there is a court case which is still unresolved.
The fact is that everybody of the "big sticks" who sympatizes CSKA is ready to help "orally", but not "materially". Everybody wants to own CSKA, but nobody wants to pay 15 M euro in total to cover the debts and provide funds for the next season.
That is why, there is a new development - a group of businessmen wants to liquidate the current team (and thus, to erase all debts). After that bankruptcy, they will establish a company (something like CSKA - 2) and try to find a team in A Grup to buy and merge with under the name CSKA.
If they don't find a club to merge with, then Fiorentina's scenario is going to happen - liquidation of the team and a new start from lower divisions. But liquidation is the only way to maintain something with the name "CSKA" without having to pay enormous debts.
For the time being, I'm not going to post links to articles, because everything is only in Bulgarian. And some of the things I know are from "inside", but I just want to wait some time for "the smoke to clear out".
As a big fan of CSKA I think that liquidation and re-establishment is the best solution right now. Sorry, but my background of a financier dominates over my blind emotions.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 05-06-2008, 19:20
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 05-06-2008, 19:24

"Does anybody know wheather a club not licenced by this procedure has right to play in the domestic championship?"

This has nothing to do with UEFA at all.

I think different countries have different licensing systems. UEFA set "minimum standards" for their own club competititions.

Some countries only require the teams that qualify for Europe to be licensed. Some license their entire top division with the same standards as UEFA. Some actually set higher standards for all their top division clubs. And some - I think - might have slightly lower standards for domestic licensing than they do for the clubs qualifying for Europe.

UEFA is only interested in their own licensing standards and there's no reason (that I can think of) that they would get involved in the domestic side of things.

England - for example - has no licensing system. Although - according to the report I link to below - all their clubs tend to be licensed because of UEFA deadlines anyway.

Here's a link to a UEFA report on club licensing . From the page I've linked to you can click on the full report in your preferred language.

Edit: These different standards might change soon though as FIFA are getting into the club licensing game themselves & I guess they will set standards for all top level clubs.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: bert.kassies Date: 05-06-2008, 21:43	badgerboy said: England - for example - has no licensing system. In the link (very readable BTW) you give, on page "What Club Licensing is", it is stated that 50 is the number of associations that now apply licensing to at least all their top division clubs. Does that mean that England is one of the three associations that do not apply licensing to all top division clubs?

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: CSKA Date: 06-06-2008, 07:45	BFU is mafia! They kill us! Help!!!

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license
Author: oggie Date: 06-06-2008, 09:29 Edited by: oggie at: 06-06-2008, 09:36	Yeah, that's the sort of pathetic excuses we've been listening to for the last few days. And while the BFU is clearly incompetent, that doesn't mean clubs can forge documents and withhold debt payment. At least not anymore.

Re: CSKA Sofia out of UCL, can not recieve license?
Author: levski.bg Date: 06-06-2008, 09:32	So, we dont pay our debts, but BFU is mafia and that is the others fault ? Perfect and sweet.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 06-06-2008, 09:37
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 06-06-2008, 09:46

"Does that mean that England is one of the three associations that do not apply licensing to all top division clubs?"

No. That's actually explained better (or more accurately?) earlier in the report.

On page 13 it gives the following breakdown:

"17 licensors have one single license for entering UEFA and national competitions.
23 licensors have two different licenses for entering UEFA and national competitions.
13 licensors have one single license for entering UEFA competitions only".

And on the next page it says that in 50 member associations the system is applied to all, or almost all top-division clubs and explains that the difference comes because: "at the time clubs have to apply for a license, the national competitions that are the basis for sporting qualification for UEFA competitions are still not finished". "That is why in England or Spain (and Italy too from the map) - despite the fact that the system is not mandatory - all top-division clubs apply for a license in order to safeguard the opportunity to play in Europe".

It's also interesting, in terms of the current topic, to note that Bulgaria were one of only 4 countries (along with Bosnia, Kazakhstan & Northern Ireland) to refuse licenses for more than half their clubs in 07-08 (Page 32).

Author: Tsar_Samuil
Date: 07-06-2008, 00:13
Edited by: Tsar_Samuil
at: 07-06-2008, 00:14

or: levski.bg
Date: 06-06-2008, 09:32 So, we dont pay our debts, but BFU is mafia and that is the others fault ? Perfect and sweet.

well well wellIs is CSKA the ONLY club with debits to the BFU (Bulgarian Football Uligarchs) ?

No its not the only one there is another 10 even more clubs with debits ! but they got the license!

Why?

How?

Im not saying this is OK every team must pay tax but we are not the only one!

And if BFU were so bloody strict thy will had to shut down the Bulgarian Football !!!

Everything is so bloody bad, crap and old !!!

The mafia!!! The old stadiums ! Everything u can thing of!

And don�t tell me Boby Mihailov ( the BFU president ) who is Levski ex player and is blue deep inside him self has got nothing to do with this !!!

why has he send this documents to UEFA when we all know UEFA don�t deal with the license of the clubs! Licenses are done bay the countries own FA (BFU in our case)

Any way he(Boby Mihailov) comes second in my must kill list! Position one is for our ex now president Alexander Tomov (dirty old communist asshole)

So Im speechless it hurts to see what is going on with our club�.

Author: levski.bg
Date: 07-06-2008, 00:59
Edited by: levski.bg
at: 07-06-2008, 01:09

I understand your anger, but am afraid that anger blind you a little.

You are not the only one club with debts, but that is also Botev Plovdiv and Pirin.

But they both, does not participate in Europe, and thats why they cant get a ban from their tournaments, but they can be relegated !

As far as I read (with my understandings that my english is not very perfect) this License committee is under UEFA Jurisdiction. Every year there is a guys from UEFA checking their works and if they notice something unclear, there will be ban for our entire football. Thats why this License committee cant work in Balkan Style "lets eat and drink, and after that a 1 min paperworks".

So, the stadiums, excepts 3-4 is a full of crap, and many of them will not have a license this year. For example this stadium in Petrich will not gain a license ! Spartak VN stadium, also. Actually, if our press is correct, the CSKA stadium will not be licensed for a games in Europe, no matter will CSKA be licensed or not to CL. And that is a news, few days before the team case.

There was a letter FROM UEFA to Levski and CSKA in the winter with reminder to clear their debts. Levski did that. CSKA did not.

I repeat...that letters is from January...so Tomov had almost 120 or more days to clear it to this time...

Where are the conspiracy ? If Boby is a ex-Levski player and make some lobby and conspiracy for Levski, how can you be the champions ?

Actually, if I was on you, Ill thanks to Batkow, who was the only person, who told that CSKA have some debts in the previous months. Where was the CSKA fans to hear it ? Busy to listen Tomov ? This pocket-out protest did not ring some bells ? Or Batkov is a enemy who want to ruin us with rumours ?

Actually, I dont think that Batkov is too much different from Tomov. He maybe pay his debts on time, but like a culture or mentality he is even worst than Tomov and thats why, I am not sure about our good future, under his management, also.

Author: Nick
Date: 11-06-2008, 06:23

The whole affair is getting very complicated. Today CSKA interim president Emil Kostadinov and representatives of the fans will meet with the prime minister, the sports minister and the BFU president to discuss the situation. My wild guess is that CSKA will clear the debts in one way or the other until June the 20th and will get a license. On the other hand the whole situation is a perfect opportunity to clear things up in bulgarian football in general. I still can't believe that a few years ago we had a written confecion about a fixed match and nobody got punished (Naftex - Cherno More case). This time the scandal is really huge and involves one of the big two so there is a chance for a change.
And then the show will begin. I can't really imagine what will happen next season after all these happenings. One thing is sure: There will be incidents regardless if CSKA plays in the top level or the third division.

Author: LevskiFan
Date: 11-06-2008, 14:40

"One thing is sure: There will be incidents regardless if CSKA plays in the top level or the third division."

aha...right. Nowadays u(cska fans) are very hooligan minded

Threatening everyone...everywhere....not seeing that the real problem is you. Pity...but thats the reason that got u here.....sadly its too hard for u to understand it. Look into ur garden first....even hough this is impossible for most of u....

Author: Nick
Date: 12-06-2008, 06:07
Edited by: Nick
at: 12-06-2008, 06:14

Heh. I'm personally looking ONLY into our garden. A word somewhere about Borat??? Nope. It's cleat that Tomov is a complete crook and managed to ruin almost everything with his idiotic populism. I'm also very sceptical about this Zhevago guy, if you ask me.
About possible incidents: I'm visiting stand "A" in the last 20 years, so you should know only from that that I'm not favoring hooliganism in ANY form. But I know just too good how much hatred was generated in the whole affair. And a certain Batkov is simply talking too much in the last days. I'm starting to think that he WANTS problems next season for some known only to his alcoholic mind reason.
So calm down and enjoy the CL qualifiers