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Author: Geordiepar
Date: 05-02-2007, 15:36

There was a lot of debate about the rules being changed with regards to the runners up in the Scottish Cup and whether they would qualify for the UEFA cup slot.

I think this was a change that UEFA were going to make, but I don't think the rules were changed.

Can anyone clarify the rules?

My team Dunfermline are through to the quarter finals of the cup, and have just about the best draw we could get (although that guarantees nothing). I am doing an article for a fanzine and need to know the correct position, if for instance we got to the final and played Hibs or Celtic.

Re: Scottish Cup runners-up
Author: Ricardo Date: 05-02-2007, 15:55	Generally idea in most(all?) European competitions is: - Cupwinner gets a UefaCup spot. - When Cupwinner qualifies for CL(e.g. Celtic), then Cupfinal-loser gets the UefaCup spot

Author: Geordiepar
Date: 05-02-2007, 16:05

Thanks Ricardo.

That certainly was the rule in Scotland, which is why Gretna qualified last year when Hearts won the cup and qualified for Champions League qualifying round.

There was a lot of talk about this changing, not sure if this was UEFA change or SFA change, but either way I don't think the change ever actually happened.

If Celtic were to qualify for final, and win the SPL (high probability), and Dunfermline got there as well (not so high), would we definately get into Europe and be given a chance to redeem our ineptitude of a few years ago (when Harfnarfjordur deservedly knocked us out).

Author: badgerboy
Date: 05-02-2007, 16:23
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 05-02-2007, 16:24

Yes....

...the losing Cup finalist will automatically qualify for the UEFA Cup, if the Cup winner has already qualified for the UEFA Champions League...

...unless of course UEFA leave it very late to change the rules for next season!

I doubt that very much though. If UEFA haven't just completely forgotten the change entirely (it was a good idea so they probably have) then I suspect they'll announce it will come into affect sometime in the future.

If I've read press reports correctly then a decision on Platini's Champions League changes has to be made by this April - even though the changes (if accepted) aren't going to be implemented until 2009-10.

Edit: Just to reiterate it's a UEFA rule. The SFA doesn't get a say (except of course for lobbying for or against a change in the regulations).

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 05-02-2007, 21:11

Last year there were a number of (mainly Scottish) press articles on this subject: UEFA to close backdoor into Europe for cup runners-up and European gateway ajar for Gretna and Dundee after UEFA deferral.

But it seems to be deferred infinitely. The UEFA congress in Budapest was very busy with Johansson's statement on UEFA stands firm on football. And the rich clubs responded with G14 call for expanded Champions League.

I can't remember any discussion on the cup losers since then ...

Author: iwan
Date: 05-02-2007, 22:28

I've never dis-aggreed to let play the cup-runner-up
intertoto when the cupwinner don't qualify for CL.

I believe, Heerenveen qualified in Holland in 1993 like that
way for intertoto but later they'd forbidden that ruwl!!
In that time, to can qualify for intertoto a teams musted
end by the best 12 in the national league or reaching
the semie-final off the cup?!? Im I right!?!?

But I've never dis-aggreed to give every country 2 instead
one ITC-spot,that means every-body in the ITC must play one
round more than.

In countries where the cupwinner don't qualify for CL the
highest ended team in the national league and the
cup-runner-up, in countries where the cupwinner qualifies
for Champions League the 2 highest teams of the national league,
or one of the national league and to let play the both
cup-semie-finalist a play-off for the ITC>

Re: Scottish Cup runners-up
Author: hooped Date: 25-02-2007, 20:12	badgerboy - but the sfa could decide to allocate the place to the league in the case of the cup winners having already qualified couldn't they? the sfa should do this; with scotland involved in a constant battle for 10th place, we need the strongest teams possible competing in europe - i.e. not teams like gretna!

Author: badgerboy
Date: 26-02-2007, 11:42

"badgerboy - but the sfa could decide to allocate the place to the league in the case of the cup winners having already qualified couldn't they?"

No, I don't think so. The UEFA regulations say: "If the winners of the domestic cup competition organised by the national association qualify for the UEFA Champions League, the domestic cup runners-up may qualify for the UEFA Cup". I think the use of the word "may" is misleading here. The national association doesn't get to choose.

I guess the only way they could "technically" get round this would be to refuse to grant a licence to the Cup loser so the place reverted to the highest placed league team. But then they'd have to have grounds to do this other than "you're crap so we'd rather you didn't play"...

I hope UEFA change this rule soon - and simply exclude cup losers rather than giving the national associations a choice.

Re: Scottish Cup runners-up
Author: Overgame Date: 26-02-2007, 11:51	Bah, i don't like it badgerboy. I like to see a small unknown team play in Europe, and asking them to win the cup is too much for me. Reaching the final is already a great achievement, and i don't see why they shouldn't be rewarded

Re: Scottish Cup runners-up
Author: isidromv Date: 26-02-2007, 14:20	The "may" in the regulations is like Liverpool's "may" some years ago, at the end the FA could decide.

Author: Laudrup1
Date: 08-03-2007, 10:19

"Bah, i don't like it badgerboy.
I like to see a small unknown team play in Europe, and asking them to win the cup is too much for me. Reaching the final is already a great achievement, and i don't see why they shouldn't be rewarded"

Im of the opinion that if the SFA have the choice, it should not allow the cup runners up into the Uefa. The posistion should then go to the highest placed league team not already qualified for Uefa competition.

Teams like Gretna (and plenty others) do more harm to the co-efficient every year than Rangers and Celtic but the big tow always take the blame for Scotland's poor showing in Uefa competitions.