Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

Author: badgerboy
Date: 06-03-2006, 19:12
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 06-03-2006, 19:32

Just came across this on Royal Belgian FA website.

http://www.footbel.com/documents/COMPETITIES/access%20list%202006_07.pdf

Looks like the official UEFA format but I don't know the reliability of the site.

Apologies - I don't seem to be able to do a link but you can reach the page by going to www.footbel.com, clicking on Competitions, then UEFA Clubcompetitions, then Season 2006-07, then the access list...

Ok - here is the list - I think!

2006-07 UEFA Access List

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 06-03-2006, 19:32

Very good, badgerboy. This surely looks like the official UEFA format. If this turns out to be true (I would say chances are 95% or more), and if it is approved at the UEFA congress (again chances would be at least 95%), this is the UEFA 2006/07 access lists. It looks like UEFA sent this as a preliminary proposal to inform the national FAs.

And just in case someone informs the Belgian FA that this list is not yet to be published, a copy can be found here.

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: bert.kassies Date: 06-03-2006, 19:36	And with respect to the content: so UEFA admits 3 more cup winners (from Turkey, Czechia, and Russia) to the 1st round, which implies that all teams from countries at rank 19 or below have to start in the 1st qualifying round.

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: dinamozagreb Date: 06-03-2006, 21:46 Edited by: dinamozagreb at: 06-03-2006, 21:49	Si if Title holder qualifies for CL then Cup Winner from 14.Austria goes directly to 1 round, anf Cup Winners from 19.Switzerland and 20.Norway go to 2.qual.round. Is that right? 1.qr-70 2.qr-35+29=64 1R-32+32(+16)=80 Can someone do all the possibilities when title holder is in question...no rush

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: Ricardo Date: 07-03-2006, 10:20	With 72 teams in Q1 iso 56 it means that the seeding/not seeding line has moved up considerably !! Ireland and Iceland will not be happen (to give an example)

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: bert.kassies Date: 07-03-2006, 11:00	Some updates at my website (incorporating badgerboy's access list): News item with the access list, Qualification 2006/2007, Seeding in the Champions League 2006/2007, Seeding in the UEFA Cup 2006/2007. Of coarse, at this point in time, with a lot of white spots in the seeding lists.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 07-03-2006, 12:11

@dinamozagreb

That seems the most logical. That was the case always untill now, that when there was no TH, that the Cup Winners of the next country's in line would move up one round.

Possibilities for TH

-TH qualifies for CL or UEFA-cup R1
cup winner of Austria starts in R1 and cup winners of Switserland and Norway start in QR2

-TH qualifies for UEFA-cup QR2
cup winners of Austria, Switserland and Norway start in QR2

-TH qualifies for UEFA-cup QR1
cup winners of Austria and Switserland start in QR2 and cup winner of Norway start in QR1

-TH doesn't qualify for CL or UEFA-cup
cup winner of Austria starts in QR2 and cup winners of Switserland and Norway start in QR1

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 07-03-2006, 12:27 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 07-03-2006, 12:29	I've updated the access list on my site (Access list 2006-07) with all possibilities concerning TH-scenarios. I didn't update my seedings yet to this "new" access list. I first have to make quit some changes to my Excel-sheet. So this update will follow later today.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 07-03-2006, 14:21

I have adjusted my sheet to use this new assignementrules.
in Round 1 almost nothing changes, and the strange thing happen in round 2 that in the Northern group, only 2 teams enter directly: the Belgium and Scottish second UC team. Plus possible Intertoto-teams.

But actually seeding lines in Q2 are the same (actualy that could be expected when you get the same last 80!)

In Q1 lies the difference. Southern group stays the same(just 1 of the 20 moved teams belong to the southern group!)
central group Georgia(1team) and Moldova(2 teams) lose their seeding
in Northern group the 1 Irish team that was seeded and the second Islandic team lose their seeding.

So actually the impact seems small. But it would mean that with 16 more teams in Q1, these teams can get 'easy' points in an extra qualification round.
This would in turn make them better competitors for spot 15!!

Have a look and shiver

(p.s. I have not yet updated the TH-scenarios on my sheet)

Author: Aegis
Date: 08-03-2006, 03:35

Good job, Forza-Az, I'll add some precisions

It was already impossible for the CL title holder to qualify for CL Q1, and now it's impossible as well for CL Q2 (since Rangers are out)

Zenit didn't qualify for Europe next year, so the UEFA TH won't qualify for UEFA Q2 (Zenit was the last team who could).

There are still 4 candidates to win the UEFA's cup and qualify for UEFA Q1 though : Basel (likely to qualify for CL Q3), Levski Sofia, Steaua and Rapid Bucarest. (Steaua still has a shot to qualify for CLQ3 : only 1 pt from the top at mid-season. On the other hand, Rapid has to win a cup (UEFA or domestic) to have a chance to play in Europe next season)

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 08-03-2006, 10:22	@Aegis Zenit can still qualify for UEFA-cup QR2 when they lose the Russian Cup final versus CSKA or Spartak Moscow (when Zenit win the Cup final they will qualify for R1 directly).

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: marathon Date: 08-03-2006, 13:57	what happens to the seedings if Sparta Praha wins their domestic cup? what happens if the same does Rapid Bucuresti in Romania? for the federations who deny their partecipation in the intertoto accordin to what criteria and what country deserve the chance to fill the empty spot instead? waiting for an answer thanks

Author: badgerboy
Date: 08-03-2006, 16:17

Maraton

In my opinion it's a bit too early to say "what if this team or that team qualifies". But ForzaAZ does provide excellent information based on current league positions. Link here.

OK - maybe you already looked at these and spotted two errors? Sparta Prague not Slavia and Rapid Bucharest not National are the highest seeded teams left in their respective Cups?

Sparta 44.769 would make Pot B of UEFA R2 as opposed to Slavia's Pot C and Lok. Moscow would drop down. But Slavia would also be in based on their league position and would replace Jablonec in QR2. Slavia would be seeded so Molde would drop down to the unseeded list. Dinamo Bucharest would also drop to the unseeded list in R1. Heerenveen would drop to Pot D, Litex to Pot E...

Rapid 23.841 would also make the seeding list in R1 meaning Livorno would be unseeded - Rapid also ending up in Pot E.

Oh and National Bucharest would replace Timisoara in the IT and Jablonec would replace Mlade Boleslav...

Phew - that was hard work considering it only involves two changes. I guess Forza has a spreadsheet that does it fast!

I only came on here to answer the second part of your question really! It is not compulsory to enter the Intertoto so if an Association puts no teams forward they simply don't... They are replaced by a team from within the same "group" - presumably a eam from the highest ranked country in that "group" should they want a place, although the number of teams in each "group" has not yet - as far as I know - been confirmed.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 08-03-2006, 17:01
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 08-03-2006, 17:07

OK - maybe you already looked at these and spotted two errors? Sparta Prague not Slavia and Rapid Bucharest not National are the highest seeded teams left in their respective Cups?

That are not errors. I assume something different:The highest placed teams still in the national cups will win the cup. So not the team with the highest UEFA-seeding, but with the highest place in the league standings.

For the Czech Rep. that means I assume the following 4 teams as semifinalists: Sparta Praha, FC Slovácko, FC Banik Ostrava and Slavia Praha. And then as the final Slavia Praha beating Sparta Praha. So Slavia Praha qualifies for UEFA-cup (R1) via the Cup and the "league-UEFA-cup spot" then going to nr.4 Jablonec (QR2).

For Romania a final between National and Rapid with National winning (I don't know the semifinal draw, but with the team on the CL-place not being in the Cup any more this doesn't matter). National qualifying for the UEFA-cup (QR1) via the Cup and Steaua taking the "league-UEFA-cup spot" (also QR1).

Phew - that was hard work considering it only involves two changes. I guess Forza has a spreadsheet that does it fast!

I indeed have an Excel-sheet, in which I only have to check which teams are still in the Cup and then putting that name in a cell if it's not a team in a "league-UEFA-cup spot".

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: badgerboy Date: 08-03-2006, 17:38 Edited by: badgerboy at: 08-03-2006, 17:40	Sorry Forza - I either misread or misinterpreted the rules on your site. Marathon - hopefully my post answered your question in any case.

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: marathon Date: 08-03-2006, 22:06	badgerboy thanks for answering my question. and congratulations to all of you for the accuracy and nice work.

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: executor Date: 08-03-2006, 22:20	@ Forza-AZ Romanian Cup Semifinals: Rapid - Petrolul Ploiesti (B) FC National - Farul Constanta first leg on March 22nd

Author: scotleag
Date: 09-03-2006, 10:05

Forza AZ, very interesting list but why do you have Hamilton down as UEFA qualifiers from Scotland? If there is still a CW place available then they are only one of three teams who might benefit (Dundee FC and Gretna are the others) - assuming the two other teams still in the Scottish Cup, Hearts and Hibernian, would qualify by league position anyway.

Also, you have Hibernian as an IT entry. I thought only Inverness Caledonian Thistle had applied from the SPL. AS things currently stand Scottish entries next year are:

CL Celtic, Hearts
UEFA (if CW place intact) one from Rangers/Hibernian/Kilmarnock (league) and one from Gretna/Dundee/Hamilton (cup). If no CW place then two from Rangers/Hibernian/Kilmarnock

Dundee and Hamilton meet tonight in their quarter-final replay with the winners facing Gretna in the semi-final

IT Inverness Caledonian Thistle (which would affect seedings as ICT would only have basic country ranking, unlike Hibernian).

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: neill Date: 09-03-2006, 10:13	Scotleag, just for your information Hibernian have also declared an interest in the Intertoto Cup along with Inverness Caledonian Thistle.

Author: Agent327
Date: 09-03-2006, 10:46

Quote Bert Kassies

------------------------------------------
Some updates at my website (incorporating badgerboy's access list):
News item with the access list,
Qualification 2006/2007,
Seeding in the Champions League 2006/2007,
Seeding in the UEFA Cup 2006/2007.

Of coarse, at this point in time, with a lot of white spots in the seeding lists.

------------------------------------------

@Bert,
I can't find acces to the seedings for 2006/2007 on your Main Page.
It seemed only possible if you use the link in this topic.
Maybe it slipped through.

Greetz

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: badgerboy Date: 09-03-2006, 11:23 Edited by: badgerboy at: 09-03-2006, 11:27	Agent 327 2006-07 access list is accessible through the news page. And the seeding lists by following the links under 2006-07 Qualification. Dave

Author: badgerboy
Date: 09-03-2006, 11:41

Scotleag

I was about to suggest that Forza had made an error but having got my fingers burnt yesterday decided to study the situation more carefully and decided he has not!

You have to read the list of assumptions that Forza makes which for Scotland has Hearts - the highest placed league team at present - winning the Scottish Cup. I'm guessing Hamilton must be the highest placed of the three teams they could meet in the final and hence they are the team placed in the Scottish position in the UEFA cup (as Hearts would be in the CL).

Note on the points you make though that if Hibernian finish 3rd in the league but win the Scottish Cup it would be through the Cup, not the league, they qualify for the UEFA cup - the 4th place team in Scotland taking the second UEFA Cup spot. I guess whoever wins the other semi-final will be hoping for a Hearts victory - and that Rangers don't catch them in the league - so that they are guaranteed a European adventure even if they lose the Scottish Cup Final...

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 09-03-2006, 11:41

@scotleag

why do you have Hamilton down as UEFA qualifiers from Scotland?

I assume that every match in the Cup is won by the team highest in the league. Hamilton is above both Dundee and Gretna. And Hearts is above Hibernian. That means a Hearts-Hamilton final. With Hearts on a CL-position that means Hamilton will qualify for UEFA-cup as the losing Cup finalists. (When they get eliminated tonight Dundee will be the team I put in my list).

Also, you have Hibernian as an IT entry. I thought only Inverness Caledonian Thistle had applied from the SPL.

I assume that every team wants to participate, so the highest team not yet qualified for CL and UEFA-cup is in my list, which is Hibernian.

You can read all the assumptions I make above the ranking list on my site.

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: aetius Date: 09-03-2006, 14:23	great job forza ! by the way AZ is a good team .why don't pass betis ?

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: marathon Date: 09-03-2006, 14:45	what happens to Q1 and Q2 if Haiduk Split wins the domestic cup? i noticed they have a rather higher rank than a few others.

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 09-03-2006, 16:38	@aetius AZ had an off day in the 1st leg. A stupid fault in the defense made it 2-0 for Betis, and that was just to much to make up in the return (2-1 aet). @marathon Hajduk (9,647) would just be seeded in QR2, while Osijek (8,647) is not. But this can change if you add the regional grouping, so Hajduk won't be certainly seeded I think.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 09-03-2006, 18:17

@Agent327

Thanks for feedback. It didn't slip through. But it reminds me to complete the seeding lists. I didn't put the link at the front page because the large number of uncertainties in the UEFA Cup seeding list. But now that we have the access list, and now that most national competitions are near the final phase, it's time to finish it.

As said, the links can be found indirectly at the Qualification 2006/2007 webpage. Soon I will list them on the main page.

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: scotleag Date: 09-03-2006, 20:42	Thanks Forza and Badger for explanation. Also to Neill for Hibs registering for Intertoto. Not sure that's a wise move considering what happened last time.

Author: scotk
Date: 09-03-2006, 22:47
Edited by: scotk
at: 09-03-2006, 22:51

i read in the press uefa are discussing the idea of, when a domestic cup winner has already qualified for europe, giving the place to the highest club in the league,instead of the beaten finalist. this is due to most beaten finalist being quickly eliminated from europe. How will this affect the access list, as for scotland if hearts win cup hibs would make uefa and kilmarnock the intertoto. this is agood thing as there is a possibility a team from the 3rd division may make the final (gretna)
Its harder to finish 4th in the league than it is to reach a final

Author: scotleag
Date: 10-03-2006, 00:02
Edited by: scotleag
at: 10-03-2006, 00:03

Gretna are 2nd division but third level and will be 1st division next season (level 2) and many clubs from that level from various countries played in the old CWC either as outright winners or runners-up when the champions won the cup.

The difference now is that if Hearts finish 2nd and win the cup then either Gretna or Dundee will play in the UEFA Cup. That would never have happened in the CWC days as the cup winners would have gone into the CWC.

This is an unintended consequence of the expansion of the CL and has already happened,for example, in 2004 when Millwall were beaten in the FA Cup Final by Man Utd who finished 3rd in the league. Millwall qualified for Europe.

What's particularly unfair about the Scottish situation this year is that the winner of the Dundee-Gretna tie will have reached the final without playing a single side from the SPL.

However, if either Hibs or Killie finish 3rd and Rangers end up 4th and out of Europe as a result I predict an almighty outburst from Ibrox at the unfairness of it all.

And an unprecedented wave of schadenfreude in the rest of Scotland.

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: badgerboy Date: 10-03-2006, 12:07	Scotk UEFA are only talking about making that change and - although UEFA do some strange things sometimes - I'm 99% sure that means it would be a rule change brought in for future years - not this one. Therefore there would be no point in amending the access lists. Dave

Author: Geordiepar
Date: 10-03-2006, 12:27

I can see arguments for and against the cup runners up qualifying for the UEFA cup.

As many people have already indicated, Gretna or Dundee will play in this years Scottish cup final and the chances are that one of them may qualify for Europe if Hearts beat Hibs in the other semi and remain 2nd in the league.

For me that is some of the romance of the cup. With the cup won most years by one of the Old Firm, it means that teams are rewarded for getting to the cup final, whereas most years they don't win it. So what if they've had an easy draw and not played against any SPL teams? Most of them were knocked out by lower division teams in the early rounds of the competition.

Aside from Ranger and Celtic, almost every Scottish side struggles and often gets knocked out in the first round, whether they've qualified throught the SPL or the cup. (Hearts have done a little better). So Gretna/Dundee really wouldn't do any worse than these teams would they?

If they change the rule to benefit Rangers this year then that would be the biggest travesty in football, and I would just wash my hands of such a corrupt (that would indeed be the correct word) sport and governing body.

Author: celtbhoy
Date: 10-03-2006, 13:02

GEORDIEPAR

Don't worry, it has been confirmed by Uefa that any change will not aplly until 2007/8. Incidentally, some monthe ago when Gretna were quoted as 50/1 against winning the Cup I had a theoretical discussion with mu friends explaining how bookmakers are never poor and I used Gretna as an example. My point being that there was absolutely no chance of Gretna winning the Cup, I was then asked what odds would I give (at this moment I was really caught up in the principle of my point), so I said 2000/1 to emphasise how bookies never lose. Needless to say, two of my friends immediately put 1 pound on Gretna to lift the Cup!!

C'mon Dundee or Hibs or Hearts

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: badgerboy Date: 10-03-2006, 13:13	Celtbhoy Where did you see the UEFA confirmation? I'm sure it's right. Bringing it in this season would be a case of moving the goalposts after the season has started but would still like to see the confirmation... Dave

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: celtbhoy Date: 10-03-2006, 19:29	Badgerboy Interestingly it was not one of the bigger papers but the local Gretna paper who actually arranged an interview with an UEFA spokesman.

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-03-2006, 19:51	celtbhoy, do you have a link or could you please give us a copy (maybe handtyped?) of that interview?

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: celtbhoy Date: 14-03-2006, 20:57	Bert: I'm sorry I cannot find the article but I also listened to an UEFA spokesman and he confirmed that the change will take place in season 2007/8.mol:

Re: 2006-07 Access list?
Author: hejazia Date: 16-03-2006, 13:51	http://www.gretna.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=11227 Article ON UEFA change.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 16-03-2006, 14:54

Just checked the article on Gretna's website. No mention of UEFAs promise that the change wont happen this year. In fact it mentions next week's meeting in Budapest as the place the decision will be made.

I still can't believe it would come in for next season though. Bear in mind as well that - if it did - it would effect some teams who have/think they have already qualified for Europe - Atvidabergs in Sweden for example. Then again - perhaps Lennart isn't keen on a mid-table Division 1 team bringing down his country's coefficient even further...