Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

Author: rod_c
Date: 22-06-2005, 17:23

Surprise Surprise....

Sky Sports News has this on their reports every hour. The BBC has repeated some on their website as well.

Looks like one reporter has inserted the top 3 seeds fromt he qualifiers - then chucked the rest on at the end

& everyone else is using it.

22/06/2005: Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United are guaranteed to avoid the most powerful sides in Europe should they all reach the group stage of the Champions League.

Uefa today confirmed the club coefficients which are used to calculate each side's seeding in Europe's elite club competition.

However, Chelsea will be among the group of eight second seeds and could end up facing Real Madrid, AC Milan or Barcelona, with last season's meeting against Frank Rijkaard's side causing so much controversy last season.

Jose Mourinho's side, who like Arsenal are one of 16 teams who have qualified automatically for the group stage, could even play holders Liverpool who have no 'country protection' after being given special admittance into the qualifying rounds of the competition to defend their trophy.

Everton and Manchester United have one qualifying round to go through but the David Moyes' side's first appearance in the Champions League is going to be a difficult one. They are ranked 42nd under Uefa's coefficient system and would be among the bottom seeds should they qualify.

The coefficients also determine which teams are seeded in the qualifying rounds and Everton's lowly status means they could end up having to beat Inter Milan, Sporting Lisbon or even Liverpool to make it into the group stage.

Celtic's strong ranking should guarantee them seeding for the second and final qualifying rounds and an easier ride to the group phase, but Rangers would almost certainly not be seeded in their qualifying round.

Liverpool have three qualifying rounds to surmount but in each round would be seeded and avoid the strongest opposition teams.

Top group: 1 Real Madrid (Spa) 131.326, 2 Barcelona (Spa) 117.326, 3 AC Milan (Ita) 121.191, 4 Liverpool (Eng, title-holders) 115.864***, 5 Manchester United (Eng) 110.864*, 6 Inter Milan (Ita) 101.191*, 7 Bayern Munich (Ger) 97.166, 8 Arsenal (Eng) 93.864.

Second group: 9 Porto (Por) 93.739, 10 Juventus (Ita) 93.191, 11 PSV Eindhoven (Hol) 84.145, 12 Chelsea (Eng) 68.864, 13 Lyon (Fra) 81.324, 14 Olympiacos (Gre) 46.715, 15 Schalke 04 (Ger) 44.166, 16 Sparta Prague (Cze) 43.223.

Third group: 17 Lille (Fra) 41.324, 18 Benfica (Por) 36.739, 19 Fenerbahce (Tur) 23.872, 20 Panathinaikos (Gre) 70.715*, 21 Celtic (Sco) 63.476**, 22 Villarreal (Spa) 58.326*, 23 Sporting Lisbon (Por) 55.739*, 24 Monaco (Fra) 53.324*.

Fourth group: 25 Ajax (Hol) 52.145*, Bruges (Bel) 50.476*, 27 Anderlecht (Bel) 47.476**, 28 Rangers (Sco) 40.476*, 29 Dynamo Kiev (Ukr) 40.200**, 30 Werder Bremen (Ger) 40.166*, 31 Lokomotiv Moscow (Rus) 38.469**, 32 Rosenborg (Nor) 36.665*.

* must play one qualifying round.
** must play two qualifying rounds.
*** must play three qualifying rounds.

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: Frankiebhoy Date: 22-06-2005, 17:28	It doesn't take a genius to see that the Co-Efficent points are not in cronilogical order!! It seems journalists don't even read information as they steal it from other peoples websites!! The formats are very similar to Berts info don't you think!! However Bert would never get the info this wrong!!!

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: Lawlerm Date: 22-06-2005, 17:29	Its also on the websites of The Sun and The Guardian. I emailed them both this morning when I saw them but as yet the stories are still there.

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: Lawlerm Date: 22-06-2005, 17:32 Edited by: Lawlerm at: 22-06-2005, 17:33	Actually about the only place that doesn't have it is the normally factually redundant Daily Record. The BBC did report first thing this morning that Rangers wouldn't be seeded in QR3 but then changed it to the correct info however The Sun still have their story claiming Rangers won't be seeded.

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: eoinh Date: 22-06-2005, 18:23	None of those sources are Irish! Ahem, we are a different country you know. Not trying to be nationalistic or anything....

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: rod_c Date: 22-06-2005, 18:53	The article is from the Irish Times on line Eoin. SSN didn't have it online - just on the TV. Sorry - you're not wriggling out of that one - mind you, I've friends in Ireland who say the Irish Times is a British paper anyway

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: bert.kassies Date: 22-06-2005, 19:32	Did anyone see the source of these news artcles? I cannot find any info on team coeffcients on the uefa.com website. Even with errors these news articles show clearly the 0.001 issue again. For those of you who are new on the forum, I would reccommend to read the (quite famous) UEFA roundings topic.

Author: eoinh
Date: 22-06-2005, 21:16

Sorry Rod_C. The Irish Times with regard to football is a bit of a nightmare. 1) they dont send football journalists outside of Dublin and 2) Know nothing of Football outside of Britain. The classic example for the last two years is that they put up the tables in the newspaper of all the major league tables around europe. When the English league ends they dont bother continuing to print the other league tables. Madness - whats the point of following a league and then not knowing who wins it in the last few weeks?

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: me_torq792 Date: 22-06-2005, 22:33	This does not surprise me at all. I've repeatedly gone blue in the face trying to rectify the most simple of misconceptions concerning coefficients, rankings and seedings to supposedly sophisticated football supporters on various boards. All of which fall on deaf ears or is forgotten within moments of being read. Most 'fans/journalists' are more interested in trash and gossip. Pity.

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: isidromv Date: 23-06-2005, 08:59	Bert, see here . On the rigth hand side there is a link to a PDF document with the coefficients of the teams playing in CL, I have not found it for UC.

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: Lawlerm Date: 23-06-2005, 12:10	Looks like I gave the Record to much praise. They ran with the story after all - just a day later than everyone else.

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: bert.kassies Date: 23-06-2005, 12:33	Thanks isidromv. Of coarse I put a copy of such an interesting document in the News section of the website. When I find time I will try to analyze the differences. But maybe others can start the discussion

Author: Lisbon
Date: 23-06-2005, 14:39

Would I be correct in saying that UEFA have simply printed all qualifiers listed in the PDF document in country co-efficient order?

It would be very strange of UEFA to change their way of handling seedings without prior notice. I think the press have just made a colossal mistake. Or at least I hope they have.

I nearly spat my tea everywhere this morning, reading the story in disbelief. I've been contented for months, safe in the knowledge that if Celtic qualify, we'll be in Pot B.

Although I seriously doubt it, if UEFA have changed the seedings to accomodate countries before clubs it would be a kick in the teeth for half of Europe.

Author: rod_c
Date: 23-06-2005, 15:09

They've started with a list of teams who are in automatically, They've then inserted Liverpool, Manchester Utd & Inter Milan in the right places, but they've only bothered to put in those 3 teams who have to play play qualifiers & chucked the rest in order at the end.

THey have failed to put 20 Panathinaikos (Gre) 70.715*, 21 Celtic (Sco) 63.476**, 22 Villarreal (Spa) 58.326*, 23 Sporting Lisbon (Por) 55.739*, 24 Monaco (Fra) 53.324*, 25 Ajax (Hol) 52.145*, Bruges (Bel) 50.476*, 27 Anderlecht (Bel) 47.476**, in their correct positions above Olympiakos (46 points).

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: nelster Date: 23-06-2005, 15:23	unfortunately no discrepancies showing in terms of Belgium / Scotland being equal. Looks like Scotland will have to face being mugged as usual.

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: Lisbon Date: 23-06-2005, 15:43 Edited by: Lisbon at: 23-06-2005, 15:44	@ Lawlerm - Looks like the Daily Record still have it. It's at the bottom end of this page. Late as usual as you say. I'm wondering why they never kept track of this site. I remember Bert being given credit for his work in (I think) the Daily Mirror last year. It's quite funny how they've all latched on to the same bait without checking prior sources.

Author: Malko
Date: 23-06-2005, 16:03

"econd group: 9 Porto (Por) 93.739, 10 Juventus (Ita) 93.191, 11 PSV Eindhoven (Hol)
84.145, 12 Chelsea (Eng) 68.864, 13 Lyon (Fra) 81.324, 14 Olympiacos (Gre) 46.715, 15
Schalke 04 (Ger) 44.166, 16 Sparta Prague (Cze) 43.223.

Third group: 17 Lille (Fra) 41.324, 18 Benfica (Por) 36.739, 19 Fenerbahce (Tur) 23.872,
20 Panathinaikos (Gre) 70.715*, 21 Celtic (Sco) 63.476**, 22 Villarreal (Spa) 58.326*, 23
Sporting Lisbon (Por) 55.739*, 24 Monaco (Fra) 53.324*."

How is it possible that Monaco with 53.324 (or Panathinaikos, or Celtic) is in a lower group than Olympiakos, Schalke and Sparta with less points?+ICY-

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: Lawlerm Date: 23-06-2005, 16:19	nelster: "unfortunately no discrepancies showing in terms of Belgium / Scotland being equal. Looks like Scotland will have to face being mugged as usual." I'm not sure what exactly your talking about. Belgium are above us as their record last year was better.

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: nelster Date: 23-06-2005, 16:26	yes, that's what I mean about mugged, finish on a good level but still not enough (could we not claim that 1 legged game between Rangers and Anzhi Makhachkala for an extra 0.001?)

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 23-06-2005, 16:38

That's indeed very cruel, that because of that match having only one leg (assuming Rangers would have got at least a win and a draw in a 2 leg match), that Scotland is now one place lower on the list, and that the teams in the CL have to start one round earlier in 2006/07.

I hope we don't come in a similar situation in the future because of the one leg of Heerenveen in the first round last season.

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: bh62 Date: 24-06-2005, 00:55	for the readers of the daily record in scotland.. i foned the record hotline to point out the mistakes in todays paper but john docherty who was taking the calls refused to believe they had printed the wrong info and instead told me " we got it from uefa so its correct". he refused to listen so i had to just tell him that id call back when the tournament starts and we will see who was correct

Re: British & Irish Press get Coefficients Wrong
Author: Lawlerm Date: 24-06-2005, 17:07	You should have made a bet with the guy - you'd have been paid out in record time - no pun intended. Grovelling retraction in todays edition.

Author: Lisbon
Date: 25-06-2005, 01:58

bh62 - did you see what their explanation was on printing the corrected version today? They blamed UEFA!

It wasn't "We apologise for blatantly copying Sky Sports without having a clue what we were doing" it was more along the lines of "UEFA gave us the wrong info - shame on UEFA".

UEFA did no such thing. Those simpletons just interpreted some very straightforward information wrongly. But they can't accept responsibility as usual.

Author: bh62
Date: 25-06-2005, 02:16

lisbon .. as i says i phoned them and john dochertys response was of total ignorance in the fact that iwas correct. the initial report was accredited to someone called marshall( alan ) maybe. and as far as they were concerned it" was uefa so there". probably says it all that the record were a day behind so the copied the sun.. sorry wrong again. but thats maybe a signal of the scottish press... it dont matter if it wrong, lies etc cos we can always blame .. the club insider.. sources close to the playerand the media darling " my information is" rather pathetic if you ask me as it not rocket science to know the layout and procedure of european football