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Author: bert.kassies
Date: 09-06-2016, 18:52

What is your opinion on the current discussions on a new Champions League format? It seems that Rummenigge, the ECA chairman, is trying very hard to get this on the UEFA agenda, now that Platini is gone.

One idea is to replace the group stage with 8 groups of 4 (6 group matches) to 2 groups of 8 (14 group matches). Another idea is to create a new Super League above the Champions League. Obviously, the big clubs, at least those outside England, think they can make more money in another format.

For background info see
Uefa to discuss plans for Champions League changes to suit biggest European clubs,
Pitched battle for future of Uefa Champions League,
Champions League format decisions to be made in December, and
Champions League reform should exclude small countries.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 09-06-2016, 19:50	As long as teams are still selected by sportive results I don't mind a change into another group stage format or even a Superleague. It still should be theoretically possible for every club in Europe to play in the highest European football competition.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: luckyluke Date: 09-06-2016, 21:46	I am expecting groups during qualification phase, too. this way most of the teams will play at least six matches instead of two

Author: Friesland
Date: 10-06-2016, 00:02

It's obviously the trianual format discussing time at UEFA.

Positive points:
* Less participants means that the teams that do participate get more attention.
* I do like larger groups, I have rigorously advocated 4 groups of 6 in both the CL and the EURO. The reason for this is that it gives more interesting group matches, because you have less groups.
* Less participants should also make the Europa League more interesting.

Negative points:
* Although I support groups of 6, I think groups of 8 is to much, certainly when you have an extra knock-out round before the group stage. As I said before, there already are to many rounds before the group stage.
* What is the use of the group stage? How many advance? It seems that only the group winners will advance. That would make the group stage extremely boring.
* With only 16 spots in the group stage, you can't award a direct spot to the title holder.
* Also, despite reducing the number of teams in the group stage, they don't sound like reducing the number of spots by country.

All in all, the proposal is completely horrible.

My format would be as follows:

Participants:
- Reigning European clubs' champion
- Current holder of the Coupe UEFA
- 54 national champions
- 16 national runners up

Qualification:
- 12 groups of 5 (teams play 2 opponents at home and the other two away)
- participants: 44 national champions and 16 runners up
- group winners advance to the group stages, runners up and thirds to Europa League

Group stage:
- 4 groups of 6
- participants: 12 direct entrants (European clubs' champion, holder of the Coupe UEFA, 10 best national champions in the previous European Cup season) and 12 qualification group winners.
- Top-4 of each group advance to the knock-out stage.

Knock-out stage:
- Single match instead of the usual two legged ties.
- First, the numbers 3 of a group play at home against a number 4 of another group.
- Second, the numbers 2 of a group play against a winner of the previous round (from another group).
- In the quarter finals, group winners play at home against a winner of the previous round (from another group).
- Not only the final but also the semi finals should be played at a neutral venue.

My formats has all the positives but none of the negatives as listed above. Well, the number of GS participant would go down from 32 to 24, but that should come at the cost of the non-champions, which is actually a positive thing.

@ luckyluke: the UEFA currently uses 23 week: 8 in the qualification and 15 from the group stage. With groups of 8 followed by a final, you get 15 week, which leaves the same 8 weeks as before for qualification matches. However, you need to get rid of more teams than before. I.e. in the proposed format there is no room to allow each team to play at least 6 matches in the qualification.

Author: paul7
Date: 10-06-2016, 10:38

Ok,but is anything wrong with the current format ?
To change something just because to change is not the best way anyway.
32 teams with 8 groups is the best option.
I like the ideea with 64 teams also and 16 groups,but this is not real ,as they wanted to cut the teams in CL.
The only real thing in my opinion ,that need changes in Champions League- qualification.teams loosing in 1 st and 2 qualifying round should have at least one more chance in europa league qual. But who cares about qualifications ? Uefa ???? No,i do'nt think so.i see they wanted to increase games of Barcelona,Real,Bayern to get mo money.Money runs the world.

Author: paul7
Date: 10-06-2016, 11:15

When uefa is thinking to make 2 groups of 8 (16 teams) or let's say Superleague i'm sure that they are interested only in clubs from top 5-6 leagues and champion of Russia,The best way is Zenit(cause they have the same sponsor).
Clubs and champions like Dinamo Kiev, PSV,Brugge,Basel,Besiktas Olympiakos and others are not needed.they d'ont make to much $$$$.
The best Uefa format for uefa closed format CL.they have dreamed for this i believe to make more profit.
1.Arsenal 2.Man Utd 3.Man City 4.Liverpool 5.Chelsea 6.Bayern .7.Dortmund 8.Juventus 9.Milan 10.Inter 11.Barcelona 12.Real 13 Benfica 14.PSG 15.Atletico 16.Ajax/Zenit.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 10-06-2016, 12:34
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 10-06-2016, 12:35

If there will be a closed league, then all other clubs in Europe should refuse to play these 16 clubs in their national leagues.

A Superleague OK, but then at least there has to be a way for other clubs to get promoted to that league. For instance the best clubs from the EL will be promoted to the Superleague of next season.

For instance a format like this:

CL
-20 teams in 2 groups of 10. 18 matchdays needed, you can use the dates now used for Q3, Q4 and further.
-group winners play the final
-last 2 of each group get relegated to EL

EL
-qualifying rounds to get to 64 teams in the group stage
-16 groups of 4, best 2 to last 32.
-semi finalists promoted to CL

This would also mean all teams in EL will take the competition very serious, since it will be the only way to get into the CL.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: putje Date: 16-06-2016, 20:01	@ Forza, With groups of 10 teams with only a few spots of intrest, you would get a lot of uninteresting/unimportant games. Wat is the intrest of a game between number 5 and 6 if they are after 14 matchdays out for the first spot and to good to avoid the relegation? I could live with the format of Friesland, but I wouldn't change the actual format in the first time.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 11-07-2016, 18:05

As long as less matches are played during the summer it's an advantage. But I guess that won't be the idea.
During Summer the players should have time to rest and not have to perform again without being able to rest.
Therefor I dislike this many teams playing in Q1 and Q2 alread, and I also dislike the group-format as qualifying (though I prefer the group to the current system I dislike the timing more)

After the EC I hear a lot of 'boring, just like CL has become boring' . It's not just that you know upfront 12-14 out of the 16 KO-teams, it's also the way of playing of even the top teams. Football is going down as attractive game to watch

Author: JohnHarts
Date: 14-07-2016, 10:28

Sadly, I think a super league is inevitable. If it happens, then it should be open, giving all countries the chance to participate. Likely that means teams leaving their national leagues and playing instead in European super leagues. To compromise here, you'd have to give a chunk of the income back to the national federations to compensate.

Something like: have eight groups of 10 teams. The winners of each qualify for the knock out stages. The bottom 3 teams in each are relegated.

For promotion, the 8 quarter finalists of the Europa league are promoted. The champions of the top 24 UEFA federations play off for 12 spots. The remaining countries play off for the last 4 spots.

The advantages of that are that the Europa league becomes meaningful, small countries have a realistic shot at taking part and quite a few national leagues would become more competitive. The downside is obviously the effect on most of the national leagues, but, if it's only money for the big clubs we're talking about, who cares about them?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 14-07-2016, 13:06	I don't think the big clubs are interested in a tournament starting with 80 teams. That is far less attractive for them then the current Champions League group stage. Only 20 teams with 2 groups of 10 might be a better plan. And with that amount of matches they don't have to leave their national league.

Author: acs4rover
Date: 15-07-2016, 19:10

If there will be some elitist closed league, noone outside will be interested, football lose money won, but this is "wanna be" copy of US profi league system when noone can be relegated, but that system in USA is totally different, there are drafts for young players and worst teams from last season draft first in next season so in result teams are more balanced plus there is salary cap, all teams from league has minimum and maximum cap of money which they can use for salary so in this system all stars cannot be concentrated in one team.

Can you imagine this in European football ? i think whole idea of super league is so stupid that people who promote this cannot really think what impact will be for football when it doesnt matter how your club play, only club name matter ..

Author: Cloakmaster
Date: 16-07-2016, 23:32

I somewhat tend to expanding, rather than compressing the format. Like EURO expanded to 24, an World cup is going to expand to 40, i could live with 40 Teams (8 Groups of 5) in CL - Main stage. I still very much fancy the idea to replace Cl-q1 to cl-q3 by a qulification group stage with 40 champions playing in 10 groups of 4, Group-winners advance to CL-q4, 2nd placed teams advance to EL-q4. So this will apply just litte changes to the current format. I really would like to have the 4 teams per country limit again, an EL-Winner should NOT have a spot in CL-GS. CL-q4 is the maximum i woluld give the EL winner. (I'd perfer EL-GS even more!)

On the other Hand i like the idea of giving ALL UEFA Nations 1 (additional) spot in EL-q1, so there is a round, every single UEFA member will have to participate. As a side effect there will be at least some interest of the "big nations" for the qualification stage, which currently is more or less ignored by, say, Spain, England and Germany.

But the interest of the big teams is having more big matches. and this means less groups. Say something like 36 teams - 6 groups of 6 would be something in the middle, or even 5 groups of 8, with something wierd like going to the KO stage with the top 3 of all 5 groups and the best team from EL group stage....

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Wit_Ek Date: 19-07-2016, 23:52 Edited by: Wit_Ek at: 19-07-2016, 23:53	Hello That's my suggestion, which gives a chance to every master, which minimizes the risk that a weak clubs will be promoted by accident. http://i64.tinypic.com/zlrtwo.jpg

Author: eye1
Date: 20-07-2016, 14:24

I believe the best idea is to go back to 24 clubs and have 4 groups of 6 clubs. Best 2 qualify to next round 3rd and 4th continue to EL. Then we can create 2 groups of 4 clubs and top 2 to qualify to semis. EL could start with 8 groups of 6 clubs (48 totally) and best 3 qualify to next round so we will have 32 clubs including the clubs which will come from CL and have knock out games till final.
This format will give top clubs more games and more quality games while the rest club will still have a chance to take part and also will give them more games if they fail to take part to CL but play at EL.
Concerning dates will be needed 4 more game dates compared to current format. 2 of them can be found if we will reduce to 3 the qualifying rounds. The other 2 dates can also be found (there used to play different weeks last group games CL and EL few years ago so can use them)

Author: pembeci
Date: 05-08-2016, 16:36
Edited by: administrator
at: 07-08-2016, 07:50

Here is my proposal. I will keep the group stages and afterwards as it is. I think 4 team groups optimize many things like excitement, surprize factor (cinderalla/black horse stories), meaningful matches, number of matchdays, undetermined results until the last matches etc. So I won't touch that. I think the problem is more in the qualifications phase. Many teams play only two matches and then got eliminated. This can be fixed by compressing the 4 qual. rounds into two rounds of 3-team groups. This will guarantee at least 4 matches to any team before elimination and quality teams will get 8 matches even they can't see the group stage. Here is how this can work:

CL-QualRound1 (4 Matchdays equivalent of Q1,Q2)
  * 45 teams in 15 groups 
    (currently 10+29=39 unique teams compute in CL-Q1,Q2)
  * 1st goes to CL-QualRound2
  * 2nd goes to EL-QualRound2
  * 3rd eliminated after 4 matches 
    (15 teams eliminated this way. Currently ~17 teams are eliminated after only 2 matches)

CL-QualRound2 (4 Matchdays equivalent of Q3,Q4)
  * 30 teams in 10 groups 
   (15 teams from previous round, 15 new teams. Currently 18 new teams are added in Q3 and Q4)
  * 1st goes to CL-Groups stage (as before 10 teams advance from qualifiers)
  * 2nd goes to EL-Groups stage (as before 10 teams coming to EL-GS from CL)
  * 3rd team eliminated 

EL-QualRound1 (4 Matchdays equivalent of Q1,Q2)
  * 120 teams in 40 groups 
    (currently 100+16=116 unique teams compute in EL-Q1,Q2)
  * 1st goes to EL-QualRound2
  * 2nd & 3rd eliminated 
   (80 teams eliminated after 4 matches. Currently 50 teams at Q1 and roughly 15 teams at Q2
    and Q3 are eliminated after 2 matches only)

EL-QualRound2 (4 Matchdays equivalent of Q3,Q4)
  * 66 teams in 22 groups 
    (15 coming from CL, 40 from previous round, 11 new teams. Currently 15 coming from CL,
     33 from Q2 and 25 new teams)
  * 1st qualifies for EL Group Stage 
   (as before 22 teams in group stage coming from qualification)
  * 2nd and 3rd eliminated (most of them after 8 matches)

With a tweak like this, we can keep teams longer in the tournament. This has two main benefits. Up and coming teams can gain experience and coef. points to distinguish themselves and climb in the ladder much faster. Secondly, you will be keeping the interest of more countries in the tournaments longer. Even if a country's all teams are eliminated, her fans will be more hooked to the remaining matches. They will be acquainted with more teams from lesser countries and follow their progress for instance. Teams qualifiying to the CL groups stage will be also more battle tested, better selected. This will make the groups stage matches there more interesting and generate better ratings. Matches other than your country's teams will become more significant in the qualifications phase as another money-wise benefit for the UEFA.

I think my suggestion also stresses better the value of CL over EL for lesser ranked countries and the competition in national leagues to attend either one of them. 2-leg format means 1/2 of teams are eliminated. In my suggestion, 2/3 teams in CL continue to play but in EL this is 1/3. So the current 1/2 ratio in both tournaments are updated favoring the CL over EL.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Friesland Date: 05-08-2016, 20:21	@pembeci: your groups require 6 match days, not 4. Yeah, the team would play 4 matches, but there's always a team without an opponent.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: luckyluke Date: 06-08-2016, 13:02	groups of three are ideal to match fixing in last round when one club is over with its games

Re: new Champions League format
Author: DIMA_AZERBAIJAN Date: 07-08-2016, 22:14	Pembeci you idea is super, I like you idea.

Author: pembeci
Date: 08-08-2016, 14:12

@Friesland, argh. I knew this sounded too good to be true. How about this fix then. We are going to pair each group with another and the matches will be:

Group A: A1, A2, A3 (A1 strongest seed, A3 weakest)
Group B: B1, B2, B3 (B1 strongest seed, B3 weakest)

MD1: A1-A2, B2-B1, A3-B3
MD2: A2-A3, B3-B2, B1-A1
MD3: A3-A2, B2-B3, A1-B1 (reverse of MD2)
MD4: A2-A1, B1-B2, B3-A3 (reverse of MD1)

So number 2 seeds play all matches in group. X1s doesn't play X3s but Y1s and X3s play Y3s. This gives an easier path to X3s and X2s but I can live with that. More competitive games and better chance to weaker countries to advance (will increase fan interest). X2 still need to get points from X1 to advance. X1s' disadvantage can be also compensated by making them play more home games but I wouldn't like that. I prefer them proving they deserve their seed. Another idea may be reranking the groups after two matches and determine the final two games based on that new ordering (sort of Swiss tournament).

In my current proposal, CL-QualRound1 has an odd number of groups but this may be fixed by increasing it to 16 groups and then subtracting 1 new team from CL-QualRound2 and EL-QualRound2.

If you liked the basic idea of having teams play more games before elimination and compressing 4 rounds of qualification, I am sure here we have much smarter people than me and we can find a sensible format along these lines.

@luckyluke, your point is also good but match-fixing will occur if two teams advance at the same time and their match is the last. Being 1st and 2nd brings different result in both CL and EL in my proposal. So I don't think it will be an issue but may be I am still missing smt. We can still have meaningless matches in the last day (i.e. that B3-A3 pairing) but this happens in other formats as well. Even in 2-leg elimination (one teams beats the other 2-0 at an away game or 5-0 at home).

Author: biagio
Date: 10-08-2016, 08:53
Edited by: biagio
at: 10-08-2016, 08:56

an article today on italy's sport newspaper Gazzetta Dello Sport says that the major european teams and uefa reached an agreement.

it will be like this :

nations 1 to 4 : 4 teams in groups (no teams in qualification rounds)
5 to 7 : 2 teams in groups (plus 1 team in qualification rounds)
8 to 11 (or 8 to 12) : 1 team in groups (plus 1 team in qualification rounds)
the remaining 5/6 teams through qualification rounds

the biggest news though is this :
the 4th team of the nations 1 to 4 is NOT the team classified 4th in the league, but it's one of the "historic" teams with the biggest ranking.
so for example this year we could have seen 7th place milan in cl groups. maybe 8th place liverpool instead of manchester city. and so on...

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Ajatolah Date: 12-08-2016, 12:08 Edited by: Ajatolah at: 12-08-2016, 12:08	Clubs having a guaranteed spot? That's absurd. I really, really hope it won't happen. The current system is doing fine the way it is.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: tazmania Date: 19-08-2016, 00:27	@ pembeci: I also like your idea, but I am having difficulty in fitting two stages of qualifying groups into the available dates (July and August only, I do not think games should start until at least the second Tuesday in July). Also, does your proposal fit with a 32-club CL GS and a 32 or - as is currently the case - a 48-club EL GS?

Author: tazmania
Date: 19-08-2016, 09:08
Edited by: tazmania
at: 19-08-2016, 09:09

For CL, why not start with groups of 4 (same 6 MDs as groups of 3) then have a final play-off round before the GS draw? This way each club gets at least 6 games and those clubs entering in the play offs are treated like now, 2 games in the second half of August in order to qualify for CL GS.

In total only 8 weeks of 2 MDs (Tuesdays and Wednesdays) per week, so - for example - this season you could start qualifying on Tuesday 12 July and finish on Wednesday 24 August.

Author: kurt
Date: 19-08-2016, 15:40

I hate the idea that teams can go in champions league through historic titles.

if i hear that top 4 countries is going to get each 1 spot.
that is not sportif.

If it will be, then for 1 team maximum ( not each country ) and that team pays for entering in the champions league, closed enveloppes.
the team that pays the most get te spot. all the money goes tot the champions of the other countries that did not succeed to get the 32 teams.

and that team can do this only once a 5 year.

and i dont like the idea that country number 4 get 4 spots.
the top 3 countries 4 spots, okay, but number country 4.
they have now 3 spots and that is good.

we cant stop the reach teams, we have to give something.
let's give them 1 spot that they can buy and all the money to the failed champions.
I think that teams like chelsea pays 30 million euro's for getting a champions league spot. they can win 100 million euro's if they win.

Author: SimonB
Date: 23-08-2016, 17:27

I have been an avid reader of this forum now for a number of years and recently joined forum 2 but this is my first post on forum 1.

Like most of you I don't like the idea of wildcard entries to the CL or EL for that matter. UEFA have a difficult job to do however to satisfy everyone and the number of proposed formats from users of the forum is almost equal to the number of users. And the threat of other competitions such as the emerging Chinese Super league shouldn't be ignored.

Trying to look at it from a neutral perspective, if that is possible, what do the different types of association want from the competition? And what are their main dislikes?

The top associations would like more places so that their "big" teams do not miss out.

The medium associations are worried about being squeezed by the top associations and see not much distinction with the low associations.

The low associations would not like to play so many qualifying rounds. There's probably a little overlap between these wishes here as well.

As some others have said before I think there would have to be an expansion of the league to accommodate everyone's wishes. Below would be my own suggestion which I hope would tick all of the boxes mentioned above:

CL 64 Teams Possible Structure

Group Stage
CL Winner X1 (or next champion from list as now)
EL Winner X1 (or extra place given to association of winner)
Champions (Assoc. 1-15)
N2 (Assoc. 1-7)
N3 (Assoc. 1-5)
N4 (Assoc. 1-4)
CW (Assoc 1-6)
Qualifiers 25 (from 3 rounds see below)

Champions Route (7 teams to progress to Group Stage)

Q1 28 teams from Assoc. 27-55(exc. Liechtenstein)-Losers to ELQ2
Q2 14 winners + Assoc. 19-26 - Losers to EL PO
PO 11 winners + Assoc. 16-18 7 winners to Group Stage. Losers to EL Group Stage.

Seeding as now except that champions who start in Q2 or PO Round are automatically seeded within that round. Each Champion guaranteed 4 matches at least.

The other 18 qualifiers come from four separate single play off rounds with losers to EL Group Stage as below:-

N2 4 winners from Assoc. 8-15
N3 3 winners from Assoc. 6-11
CW 3 winners from Assoc. 7-12
Mixed High Association Group: 8 winners from N567 Assoc. 1-4 N45 Assoc.5 & N4 Assoc.6-7

Seedings in Group Stage:- (country protection used)

Pot 1 CL Winner** + Ch. 1-15 (Winner + Ch 1-7 in Section A remainder in section B
Pot 2 Seeds 1-8 by UEFA ranking of remainder to section B, 9-16 to Section A
Pot 3 Seeds 17-24 to Section B, Seeds 25-32 to Section A
Pot 4 Remaining teams

**Replaced by N2 of Assoc. 1 if CL winner not needed

Group winners play at home to Group runners-up in single leg play off in round of 32 to reach elite group stage of 16 teams. With the above structure it should be mostly teams from the top associations who make it through but everyone would stand a chance.

Elite Stage (4 groups of 4)

Winners progress to 1 leg semi-finals with two best Group winners at home.

So the big teams get their wish of an elite stage and more champions are involved in the original group stage.

The only obvious disadvantages are a loss of knockout football, although I would make up for this in the EL and that more funding would be required for the expansion, although with the inclusion of more top association teams this might be forthcoming. There would be more champions involved than now but without diluting the overall strength of the competition too much.

It could also be run as a straight knockout from the first group stage, but then the big teams wouldn't get their increased no. of meetings that they wanted.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: MARiBOR Date: 24-08-2016, 04:20	platini would not allow this kind of change, and neither will his successor ceferin, so rummenigge & the gang will start pushing the new reform at the end of this week when everybody meets in nyon for the draw, instead of in december as was planned earlier, because they want to get it approved before ceferin gets elected on september 14th... http://sport.orf.at/stories/2259030/

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Malko Date: 24-08-2016, 11:26	Anything must be done that countries ranked 5 and 6 at least may have 3 direct participants to CL...... Or Number 5 : 3 Number 6 : 2 Number 7 : 1 Fralling from 4 particiants for the fourth to 2 for the fifth is idiot. (even if i am sure that my favorite country will soon be among Top4)

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 25-08-2016, 02:33	Is there really anybody who likes this new format? Top Leagues need less spots not more. And wildcards for top leagues... come on! I am OK with UEFA giving one CL spot as a wildcard. But then for a very special occasion. Say Swizz League exists 100 years. Or if a very classic club exists for let's say 75 years.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: SirHenri Date: 25-08-2016, 11:36 Edited by: SirHenri at: 25-08-2016, 11:37	Double up the group stage. 16 groups with 4 teams, one KO-round more. I'd love it. More teams from top countries, much more teams from lower countries. The more football, the better

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 25-08-2016, 12:31	More football yes, but even less interesting matches I guess. Right now the CL-groupstage is already easy to predict for a large part. Won't get better with even more teams in it.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: kurt Date: 26-08-2016, 01:09	1 free ticket for 75 million euro. I agreement. But all the money Goes to champions that failed qualifyng.. And only once in 10 year for same club.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Nick Date: 26-08-2016, 13:38	We have the new format. Amazing how they managed to kill the CL as a tournament. 16 fixed GS participants + the EL winner. That makes 15 spots for the rest of Europe.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Judio1999 Date: 26-08-2016, 16:08	Could someone work out what the Ranking change means to a club from England who have not played in Europe for 5 years They dont get the current ranking of 15.256 (Team Rank of 2016 for example) They dont get a big fat zero They will get something in between ???

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 26-08-2016, 18:36

As far as I understood they still will get the current country contribution (20% of the country ranking) as a minimum. It's just that this country contribution is not added anymore to the club coefficient. This implies that more clubs will be ranked with the minimum ranking for that country.

In your example for English clubs and the 2016 team ranking it means, that only clubs which scored at least 16 individual points will be ranked above that minimum. In the 2016 team ranking only Liverpool, Tottenham Hotspur, Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal, and Chelsea did so. All other English clubs will be ranked with the minimum ranking for English clubs.

Another change is that previous European titles will lead to extra bonus points. No details are known yet.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 26-08-2016, 19:45	Bert, As you are very well informed... Question: Must UEFA members vote about this? Or can unhappy members ask for a vote? Can such a member go to CAS?

Author: ththth10
Date: 26-08-2016, 20:12

Situation now:
( https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/access2016.html )

21 have autonomatic CL entry: 9 + 6 + 6

Let's just assume CL title holder will qualify anyway. But maybe not so for Europa League TH. So 21 or 22.

So we have ourselves 5 Champions from the 'Smaller Countries' and 5 Non-Champions (from the top and subtop countries).

But now under the new UEFA plans (26 August 2016):

16 teams from countries 1-4.

But what will happen with countries 5-12?

Portugal and France really like to keep 2 entries. And I cannot imagine UEFA downgrading POR and FR to only one club.

So that gives us 20 'guaranted spots' taken already.

Then we get:

Russia
Ukraine
Netherlands
Belgium
Switzerland
Turkey

Here it is a bit more unclear what UEFA will deceide. I really cannot believe UEFA would take away guaranted spot for Champions of these subtop countries. (yes, I am from Netherlands!)

So let's give at least 4 spots to those nations.
Leaves us with 24 spots taken already.

But what will happen to the NC spots for these countries? Will UEFA take some of them away?
You can argue there is more 'room' now in NC-route as number Four clubs of countries 1-3 are no longer in this route (same for Italy's number Three club).

But then again: only 8 spots (7 if Europa League Title Holder spot is needed) while - under this scenario - at least two more Champions need to qualify using the CH-route...

What do others think? How will UEFA 'solve' this?

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 26-08-2016, 20:32

@ththth10

I am no lawyer and don't know no much about these formalities. As far as I understood the details of the competition format are determined by the Executive Committee.

The UEFA Executive Committee is UEFA's supreme executive body with all the powers to take this decision. "The UEFA Executive Committee is empowered to adopt regulations and make decisions on all matters which do not fall within the legal or statutory jurisdiction of the UEFA Congress or another organ. The UEFA Executive Committee manages UEFA, except to the extent that it has delegated such management, or unless such management has been delegated by the UEFA Statutes to the UEFA President or the UEFA administration."

But the members of the Executive Committee are elected by the UEFA Congress, where all associations have one vote. The UEFA statutes state that "The UEFA Congress shall be the supreme controlling Organ of UEFA". So, I think in theory they can dismiss the Executive Committee. But that's just theory. In fact the big clubs have lots of power because they bring the money. This fact is emphasized by the creation of "UEFA Club Competitions SA", where half of the managing directors will be appointed by UEFA and the other half by the ECA.

And lastly, yes I think CAS has the jurisdiction to deal with disputes between UEFA and associations.

Author: paul7
Date: 26-08-2016, 20:33

So after all this changes we will probably have 32 champions starting in the first preliminary round (based on current rankings): champions of: 1.Scotland 2.Israel 3.Azerbaidjan 4.Cyprus 5.Serbia 6.Bulgaria 7.Kazakhstan 8.Slovenia 9.Slovakia 10.Hungary 11.Moldova 12.Iceland 13.Finland 14.Albania 15.Bosnia 16.Georgia 17.Latvija 18.Ireland 19.Macedonia 20.Estonia 21.Montenegro 22.Armenia 23.Luxembourg 24.Nothern Ireland 25.Lithuania 26.Malta 27.Wales 28.Faroe 29.Gibraltar 30.Andorra 31.San Marino 32 Kosovo.

16 winners from 1 round along with 8 champions (in total 24 teams)who will start in round 2 to form 24 teams ( 1.Netherlands 2.Romania 3.Austria 4.Denmark 5.Belarus 6.Sweden 7. Poland 8.Norway.

12 winners from the 2nd round will join the remaining 4 champions for round 3 (16 teams ( 1.Czech Republik, 2.Switzerland 3.Croatia 4.Greece)

Play off -8 winners from round 3 will contest the 4 group stage berths.
Did i miss anything ???

Author: eye1
Date: 28-08-2016, 02:57

I dont like the changes in general. I would prefer to give 4 spots to top 2 countries, the third to have one club at qualifier and 4th to have 2 clubs at qualifiers and not to have the 2 different routes at draws. The secure spot to EL winner at group stage is correct.

Adding the 20% of country ranking to clubs was helpful and had meaning. Now we are going to have lot of ties at team ranking. It is not hard to find clubs which took part at group stage the last 5 years and had same number of points

Author: ththth10
Date: 28-08-2016, 18:54

Regarding different routes...

This is a hard one... Personally I think that any club from the non-top 5 countries has hardly a chance because of this different route.

On the other hand: pooling all clubs in one route gives the chance that there will be clubs from even LESS countries.

The solution: LESS (yes, less) spots for top countries.

I think for top 5 countries 2 fixed spots and one spot for qualification roud is enough.

So UEFA, please fix this one

Author: kurt
Date: 30-08-2016, 13:34

to ththth10

i am afraid that only top 10 countries get a direct champions league spot.

i think number 11-12 will have to play qualifying rounds.

do i agree? totally not, i am from belgium

For Belgium i believe that they will always be top 12 country.
But a top 10 country ? that is very hard. okay some years yes and some years No.

the same for Netherlands,Greece,Turkey,Swiss, ....

one bad european year and goodbye direct spot for title-holder

and i thin in 3 or 5 year the big countries going to take another step and another step, superleague will come closer and closer

Author: bulkzooi
Date: 30-08-2016, 21:57
Edited by: bulkzooi
at: 30-08-2016, 21:58

Agree with Kurt but there are more changes:

A new system for the club coefficients: clubs will be judged on their own records (deletion of the country share for individual club coefficient unless that coefficient is lower than 20% of the association's coefficient).
Historical success in the competition will also be acknowledged in coefficient calculation (points for previous European titles with a weighted system for UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League titles)
Financial distribution to clubs will be increased significantly for both competitions.
A new four-pillar financial distribution system (starting fee, performance in the competition, individual club coefficient and market pool) will see sporting performances better rewarded, while market pool share will decrease.

The market pool decrease is a good step for all smaller countries. To really judge impact of 2018-2021 changes, I need to understand how previous titles are weighted in the coefficient calculation.

@Bert: Is this info available?

Author: Cloakmaster
Date: 31-08-2016, 15:47

I dislike the new format, too. That 'poor' N4 team having to survice a qaualification round? If you are too weak to qualify, then you are too weak to compete in the tournament. If the aim is, to take some risks from the top nations, i rather would give the N5 team a spot in NC-q3 - ManU will sure perfer that one instead of EL-GS. Of course the 5-team maximum in CL-path should remain valid, so CL-TH or EL-TH does not enable a 6th team from the same nation in CL-GS. Why not headding the EL-TH from, say spain, against N4 or N5 from spain in CL-q4? If the EL title holder is from england, then let the english N4 or N5 play against them for the CL-GS and so on. Im my imagination CL will expand to 40 teams, and 19 national champions will be in GS. As usual, if the Title holde spot is not used, another champions gets promotion to GS. Be it this way oder that way, ther will be 20 Champions, and 20 nonchampions in Group stage, Nations 1-4 will have 12 direct entreis plus 7 (with EL-TH 8) qualifiers, so you can expect 50% of the participants from the top 4 nations. In the same sweep i expnad EL-GS to 60 teams, so all groups in the main stage will have 5 teams instead of 4. The match calender should not really have a problem to find 4 addiotional matchdays which are neccesary for tha expansion.

Author: ththth10
Date: 01-09-2016, 06:25

Just found this:

Should Scotland & other countries boycott UEFA events over Champions League plans?

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/233998-should-scotland-other
-countries-boycott-uefa-events-over-champions-league-plans/

And an older article from February 2016:

Sports Hotline: Calls for boycotts as plans for Champions League revamp continue

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sports-hotline-calls-
boycotts-plans-7388177

Author: ththth10
Date: 01-09-2016, 06:30

And seems UEFA thinks about other time slot for Champions League game:

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/chleague/startseite/659267/artikel_uefa-disk
utiert-neue-champions-league-anstosszeiten.html

And yes, FIFA also wants 'more':

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/sport/fussball/fifa-praesident-gianni-infantino-will
-klub-wm-aufstocken-14412763.html

(Bert, I know this is abut EUROPEAN football, so if not suitable for this blog, just remove link to last article!)

Author: ththth10
Date: 04-09-2016, 05:54

http://www.espnfc.com/uefa-champions-league/story/2940018/champions-league-reva
mp-a-scandal-for-ligue-1-clubs-union-chief

"At present the third-placed French club must play two qualifying rounds and could face a club from a top-four league in the final qualifying round. Under the new rules, only one qualifying round would have to be negotiated and an easier tie would be presented."

This seems to imply some of the 'must qualify through qualification(-s) round'-clubs will enter in NC4. But with teams from 1-4 no longer entering in NC4 which other nations will be involved at that very stage?

Country 5 yes...
But also countries 6 and 7?

How many spots will there be for NC that have to qualify? Probably no longer 5 (as again, teams 4 (or 3) no longer take part in this, as for countries 1-4).

And of course the question remains: which countries will still have a fixed spot for their champion?
Some newspaper reporst say: only 1-10. That might create some space for non-fixed spots through qaualification rounds (both C and NC).

Forgive me saying this, but this get really awful and unfair for any team not from England/Spain/Germany/Italy...

Author: ththth10
Date: 04-09-2016, 06:22

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmahon/2016/08/28/this-week-in-soccer-biz/#89
da86851816

"So if these are the winners, who are the losers? As expected the small to mid-size nations will be contributing spots to larger, wealthier clubs. Leagues ranked 11 and 12 will have to go through the qualifying grind, while the numbers of qualifiers to the group stage will go from 10 down to 6."

Bert and others,

Is this official (yet)?

To me this seems more an interpretation that stating a fact. What I am trying to say: as far as I know UEFA said nothing officially about countries 4-10 or countries 11/12.
Am I correct? Or is FORBES correct?

Author: AlanK
Date: 04-09-2016, 15:44

Understanding the "rating by coefficients" system is hard enough as it is. I've mentioned in previous years the complete incomprehension shown at times by sports media of how it works. UEFA.com has shown time and again that they can't even keep their own website up to date with the current coefficient standings. But It's all relatively simple compared to what we're gonna have foisted on us (apparently) in short order.

KISS--keep it simple, stupids!

Author: Andrey495340
Date: 04-09-2016, 18:31

The old format (2013-2015) was better. The new format is only for west and central european countries, especially for England and Italy. But, f.e., according to UEFA Country Ranking 2017, both Italy and Russia gets 11.500 points.

The new rules are against especially mid-countries (5-12 places) and countries from East and Far East Europe. I think that the decision may be ever political, because in 2019/2020 season Russia probably would have 3 teams in CL (2 directly + 1 NC qualify). The WC 2018 will be also here. And it takes a lot of time to fly to Russia for the Western European countries. So UEFA made a decision in this year.

or may be I'm wrong? what will be for 5-7 countries for 2018-2021 seasons?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 04-09-2016, 20:58	"or may be I'm wrong? what will be for 5-7 countries for 2018-2021 seasons?" That is indeed the question. Will France and Portugal keep two direct spots? What will happen with countries like Russia and Ukraine? And, as I mentioned before... up till what country will countries have direct access to Group Phase of CL? 1-10? Or 1-12?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 04-09-2016, 22:38	@ththth10 I posted this photo on forum 2 back on the day when the new format was announced. It pretty much sums up how the direct spots will be allocated: http://www.24sata.hr/media/img/0e/2e/713ef93215a294610b73.jpeg

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 04-09-2016, 23:13	Number of direct spots is clear indeed from that foto. The big question however is untill what spot on the ranking will countries also be sending their runner-up into CL-Q, and untill what spot on the ranking will countries still have 5 clubs in total in European football.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 05-09-2016, 00:00	Cro_nogomet, Thanks for reply. This is a photo of what? Please explain the source of this. http://www.24sata.hr/media/img/0e/2e/713ef93215a294610b73.jpeg

Author: ththth10
Date: 05-09-2016, 00:10

Cro_nogomet and Forza-AZ,

It is hard to read the numbers at the photo.
Does it say:

Champions Route: 4
League Route (NC): 2

?

Also:

If there are really only 2 spots for NC-route AND there will be only one round for this route (as some news articles seem to imply) then there will be only FOUR clubs participating in the NC-route.

I cannot believe this is true. That would be only NC clubs from France and Portugal, and as it is now, Russia and Ukraine.

BUT...

CL-titleholder will not need 'own' spot. That is almost 100 % sure. So will UEFA give this spot to Champion of country 11? Would be the easiest. Or beef up number of spots for 'smaller nations' champions' to 5?
Or assign this to the Non-Champoions Route... what will be complicated as then some NC teams might enter this route while they did not know that when the season started.

But only 2 spots for NC-route would be a joke. A really bad joke!

Having said that: do we really need the Runner Up of countries like Romania and Greece and Czech Republic? Hey, even their Champion must play 2 qualification rounds...
Maybe not...
But now the pendelum swings to the opposite side by hardly allowing any teams from the Subtop countries.

The more I read about this new proposal the more unfair and crazier it gets!?

Your thoughts are welcome!

Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 05-09-2016, 00:43

The source is Croatian newspaper. I don't know how they got it, possibly through Davor Suker who is a member of UEFA Executive Commitee.

The champions path will provide 4 places, while the league route only 2 slots. How many countries will participate in the league route is yet unknown.

In case of TH spots not being used, the most likely solution is that champions of 11 and 12 would have a direct qualification to the group stage.

Author: ththth10
Date: 05-09-2016, 01:43

"The champions path will provide 4 places, while the league route only 2 slots."

* CH-path: 4 places

So that's 4 places for 44 champions (54-10=44)

Unfair, stupid and boring!

* NC-path: 2 places

No madam, sir, you do not misread: TWO PLACES!

Might be:

countries 7 - 10: 4 teams -> 2 winners
countries 5/6: 2 teams + 2 winners -> 2 teams in Group Stage

Anyway, countries like Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Turkey should not accept this!!

Author: ththth10
Date: 05-09-2016, 05:05

Regarding ITALY:

And yes, this has been mentioned before at several locations. But...

Out of 8 times there now is a Non-Champion Route Italian clubs only made it twice (Fiorentina and Milan). And please mind that these Italian teams only have to play ONE qualification round!

So what UEFA is saying more or less: Hey, Italy has 2.25 CL spots now. Let's upgrade that to 4.

Are 'we' getting more crazy each season?
I am afraid we are

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 05-09-2016, 10:53

Probably it would be the following qualification schema for UCL 2018-2021:

CQ1: 32 teams (23-55, without Lichtenstein), 16 go further
CQ2: 8 teams (15-22) + 16 winners from CQ1 = 24 teams, 12 go further
CQ3: 4 teams (11-14) + 12 winners from CQ2 = 16 teams, 8 go further
CQ4 (play off): 8 winners from CQ3, 4 go further to the GS

NCQ2: 8 teams (9-16), 4 go further
NCQ3: 4 teams (5-8) + 4 winners from NCQ2 = 8 teams, 4 go further
NCQ4 (play off): 4 winners from NCQ3, 2 go further to the GS

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 05-09-2016, 13:22	Thanks Partizan_Belgrade. This scheme fits well to the other modifications. Could very well be the final proposal. Then the remaining question is what they will do with the optionally not-used title holder places. Still giving priority to champions (rank 11 and maybe even rank 12), or to the non-league route (rank 5 and maybe even rank 6).

Author: ththth10
Date: 06-09-2016, 03:41

Bert and Partizan_Belgrade,

I do not think UEFA will open this NC-route for countries up to country 16. I seriously think UEFA wants to limit this NC-route to only two rounds.

But thanks for detailed scheme, Partizan_Belgrade.

Then:

I really hope UEFA will give non-used title holder spots to this NC-route. If three or four clubs can get NC-route spots then only a few of them have to play 2 (or even 3) rounds.

Disadvantage: a country does not know if it will have an NC-spot before the end of the season.

Of course same is true in case of direct access to group stage if a country is 'upgraded' because of unused title holder spots.

(But I keep saying: UEFA, this is not the right thing to do! Big countries need LESS fixed spots, not more!)

Author: ththth10
Date: 06-09-2016, 04:01

Partizan_Belgrade,

Regarding your take on the Champions Route:

The only really big difference with situation now is that much more teams will start in the first qualification round (Q1).
This will include champions from 'sub top' countries (when it comes to national teams) like Sweden, Serbia and Scotland.

Don't you think this will collide with the World Cup and European Cup?

What if Sweden makes it to the semi finals in Russia (in 2018)? That's possible. Then Sweden would play semi finals july 10 or 11.
While Champions League Q1 starts late june...

Champions from countries like Romania and Croatia will have to enter in Q2. But even that will mid july (maybe a little bit later).
Again: what if Romania or Croatia will make it to semis? That is possible. Did UEFA think about this?
Was this discussed in Forum 2?

And if your take on NC-route is correct then same will be true for Runner Ups from coutries like Netherlands, maybe Belgium, Turkey and Greece.

Imagine Ajax or PSV to play NC-route Champions League qualification while Dutch team is still playing in Russia for World Cup?

Or Belgium and Anderlecht?
And so on....

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 06-09-2016, 08:31 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 06-09-2016, 16:34	I have complete access list for UCL 2018-2021, that means also access for qualifitation rounds! Please little patience, untill tomorrow afternoon. If until then nobody publish it here, i will do it.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 06-09-2016, 16:52	That's great news! In the meantime please just tell me one thing: Should Croatia fight Austria for that 15th spot or it makes no difference?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 06-09-2016, 17:13 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 06-09-2016, 17:19	@ Cro_nogomet: At the moment (list for 2018/19): 13. Croatia 25.250 (1/4) 14. Greece 24.100 (3/5) 15. Netherlands 24.063 (4/5) 16. Romania 21.950 (2/5) 17. Austria 21.850 (3/4) Champions Path: 13th and 14th place make a difference in relation to positions below. Non-Champions Path: 15th place makes a difference in relation to positions below!

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 06-09-2016, 19:55	So that means countries up to 15th keep the 2nd CL spot and in total 5 spots in Europe? And 11th - 14th champions will start 1 round later then 15th and lower?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 06-09-2016, 20:41	Partizan_Belgrade

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 06-09-2016, 21:24

It could well be that the access list of Partizan_Belgrade was discussed (at least informal) at the European Club Association's (ECA) 17th General Assembly.

See European clubs target 2024 UEFA deal to block Super League and ECA fully supports evolution of UEFA's Club Competitions.

Probably to be made final by the UEFA Club Competitions Committee and later on in December, by the UEFA Executive Committee.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 06-09-2016, 21:32

From the Associated Press article above:

Rummenigge spoke after two days of closed-door meetings that revealed disunity and unhappiness among clubs from lower-ranked national leagues which will be squeezed by the Champions League deal agreed last month.

and

Delegates from lower-ranked clubs declined to speak publicly about the influence of elite clubs who cash in most from the Champions League, and would likely be part of a Super League.

I'm sure we will hear more later on

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 06-09-2016, 22:53
Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade
at: 06-09-2016, 23:03

Please be patient till tomorrow afternoon. Tomorrow I have obligation to inform at first some people in my environment about all details that I got today. After that I will present the details here, because this website is really great!

Access list: There are some differences compared to my assuming in my post yesterday at 10:53.

Beside that, in Non-Champions Path there are still 2 options remained. I will present both options.

Last but not least: You will be very, very surprised with a description of the changes in the calculation of club coefficients!

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 07-09-2016, 11:39

Thanks, Partizan_Belgrade.

This article Zerbricht Europa? Rummenigge verteidigt CL-Reform clearly states that the clubs were informed about the details of the reform (Der achte der 15 Tagesordnungspunkte war der brisanteste: Die Klubs erfuhren die Details der "neuen" Champions League. And that only the last details are left to the UEFA Club Competitions Committee (Letzte Details soll eine Arbeitsgruppe unter dem Dach der UEFA Club Competitions Committee in den kommenden Monaten ausarbeiten.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 07-09-2016, 16:31	> because this website is really great! It is! It sureley is! Let's have a Thanks, Bert meeting!

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 07-09-2016, 17:12
Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade
at: 07-09-2016, 17:26

UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE 2018/21 � ACCESS LIST FOR QUALIFICATION ROUNDS

CHAMPIONS PATH:

Preliminary Rounds (PR): 4 starters (52-55), two PR, for 1 place in CQ1
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 52. Gibraltar, 53. Andorra, 54. San Marino, 55. Kosovo.

CQ1: 33 starters (18-51, without Liechtenstein) + 1 winner from PR = 34 teams
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 18. Denmark, 19. Belarus, 20. Sweden, 21. Poland, 22. Norway, 23. Scotland, 24. Israel, 25. Azerbaidjan, 26. Cyprus, 27. Serbia, 28. Bulgaria, 29. Kazakhstan, 30. Slovenia, 31.Slovakia, 33. Hungary, 34. Moldova, 35..Iceland, 36. Finland, 37. Albania, 38. Bosnia, 39. Georgia, 40. Latvija, 41. Ireland, 42. Macedonia, 43. Estonia, 44. Montenegro, 45. Armenia, 46. Luxembourg, 47. Nothern Ireland, 48. Lithuania, 49. Malta, 50. Wales, 51. Faroe Islands

CQ2: 3 starters (15-17) + 17 winners from CQ1 = 20 teams
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 15. Netherlands, 16. Romania, 17. Austria.

CQ3: 2 starters (13-14) + 10 winners from CQ2 = 12 teams
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 13. Croatia, 14. Greece.

CQ4 (play off): 2 starters (11-12) + 6 winners from CQ3 = 8 teams
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 11. Czech Republik, 12. Switzerland.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

NON CHAMPIONS PATH � Option 1:

NCQ3: 8 starters (3rd 5, 3rd 6, runner up 7-12)
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 5. France (3rd), 6. Russia (3rd), 7. Portugal, 8. Ukraine, 9. Belgium, 10. Turkey, 11. Czech Rep, 12. Switzerland.

NCQ4 (play off): 4 winners from NCQ3

UEFA Europa League: CW 13-15 directly in a GS!

---------------------------------------------------

NON CHAMPIONS PATH � Option 2:

NCQ2: 6 starters (runner up 10-15)
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 10. Turkey, 11. Czech Rep, 12. Switzerland, 13. Croatia, 14. Greece, 15. Netherlands

NCQ3: 5 starters (3rd 5, 3rd 6, runner up 7-9) + 3 winners from NCQ2 = 8 teams
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 5. France (3rd), 6. Russia (3rd), 7. Portugal, 8. Ukraine, 9. Belgium.

NCQ4 (play off): 4 winners from NCQ3

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Whitch option for NCQ will be taken, it will be decided in the next 2-3 months - by the Club Competition Commitee Working Group.

If one spot in a GS would be free (because of title holder UCL / UEL in the previous season 2017/18), champions of 11 (Czech Rep. at the moment) and 12 (Switzerland at the moment) would not start in play offs � they would go directly to the GS. Therefore we would have 27 teams directly qualified for the GS, 3 teams gualified through CQ and 2 teams qualified through NCQ.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------

UEFA EUROPA LEAGUE 2018/21 � ACCESS LIST FOR QUALIFICATION ROUNDS

Complete access list will be determined in the next 2-3 months - by the Club Competition Commitee Working Group.

Directly in the GS for sure:

5th 1-4
CW 1-12
looser PO CQ (4 teams)
looser Q3 & PO NCQ (4 + 2 = 6 teams)

Optionaly also CW 13-15 (if by NCQ option 1 "winns")

PS (1)
You are welcome. All of you!

PS (2)
Very important and interesting news relate to new calcualtion system of club coefficients follow later.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 07-09-2016, 18:01	Thank you very much, Partizanen_Belgrade. Very good work. Eagerly awaiting your info on club coefficients.

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 07-09-2016, 18:10
Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade
at: 07-09-2016, 23:02

NEW CLUB COEFFICIENTS CALCULATION STARTING FROM 2018:

PERFORMANCE previous 10 seasons (YEAH, T-E-N SEASONS

)
2 points for win, 1 point for draw

BONUS previous 10 seasons (YEAH, T-E-N SEASONS

)
UCL: 4 points for GS, 5 points for R16
UCL/UEL: 1 point for KO as of QF

TITELS:
Last 5 seasons: UCL 15 (or 12, will be decided in next months), UEL 3
As of 1992/93: UCL 10 (or 8, will be decided in next months), UEL 2
Before 1992/93: UCL 5 (or 4, will be decided in next months), UEL 1

--------------------------------

Association part (20% of national coeff.) remains unchanged and is taken only as minimum guarantee in one season - if individual club coefficient in this season inferior or null!

If someone doesn't understand this stuff about association part, he should read the post:

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 26-08-2016, 18:36

Best regards to Bert, my assistant & my associate.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: hapoel_tel_aviv Date: 07-09-2016, 18:11 Edited by: hapoel_tel_aviv at: 07-09-2016, 18:13	what about second place in CL for 16-18?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 07-09-2016, 18:19	nothing, no chance

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 07-09-2016, 18:21	What happens with bonus points in qualifying rounds? Do teams still get 0.250 for ELQ1, 0.500 for ELQ2, 1.000 for ELQ3, etc.?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 07-09-2016, 18:38 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 07-09-2016, 18:39	I don't know at this moment. I'm not sure about the wright answer because that what you mention exists from 2009...and in year 2018 the oldest season to be calculated is season 2008/09, that means season without those points.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: hapoel_tel_aviv Date: 07-09-2016, 19:25	Country Ranking still 5 years or 10?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 07-09-2016, 19:33 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 07-09-2016, 23:01	Please look following comment: Author: bert.kassies Date: 07-09-2016, 22:41

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 07-09-2016, 19:46 Edited by: bert.kassies at: 07-09-2016, 20:11	Thanks again, Partizan_Belgrade. Very good stuff! Team coefficients from 2008/09 should be no problem: see UEFA Team Coefficients 2008/2009 Just like for all past 10 years these coefficients need to be adjusted for each club: 1) remove country part, 2) sum over 10 years, 3) add historic title points, and finally 4) take maximum of this sum and 20% of the 5-? or 10-? year country ranking

Author: Funkmaster
Date: 07-09-2016, 19:53
Edited by: Funkmaster
at: 07-09-2016, 19:55

Thank you so much Partizan_Belgrade for sharing your information with us, I really appreciate that

Still I have got some questions for you, hopefully you have got some answers:

-For country coefficient all the results from 2008 on count for season 2018/19? So it is the same like for the club coefficient, the results from the last 10 years are important for the country coefficient, correct?

-How many clubs will each country send to EC? I think it will be:
1 - 4: 7 clubs
5 - 6: 6 clubs
7 - 15: 5 clubs
16 - ..: 4 clubs

-What happens with the loosers in CLQ2? Will they continue to play in EL-qualification or not?

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 07-09-2016, 20:01
Edited by: bert.kassies
at: 07-09-2016, 20:04

Just an example of the importance of the historic titles (depending on the option that will be chosen, here I assume option 1).

Real Madrid will score 6x5 + 3x10 + 2x15 + 2x1 = 92 historic title points.

That is far more than 20% of the country ranking of Spain. So, they will never (!) use the country part of Spain, even if they don't win anything in 10 years. It also means they will almost for sure grab the 4th CL spot of Spain, even if they are relegated from the Primera Division.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 07-09-2016, 20:06	So the national coefficient also looks at past 10 seasons? Crap... That means Croatia falls to 17th place, with no chance to rise to 15th. The fight is between Denmark and Austria for 15th.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: hapoel_tel_aviv Date: 07-09-2016, 20:08 Edited by: hapoel_tel_aviv at: 07-09-2016, 20:12	sorry about that so many questions, i want to understand: ranking for clubs for 2018/19 set by ranking clubs for end 2017/18: 10 years from 2008/09 - 2017/2018 and etc for 2010, 2011. Access List from nations in 2019/2020 and 2020/2011 set by ranking for 10 years. but in 2018/2019 (the first season) it set for 10 years or 5 years? 07/08 - 16/17 or 12/13 - 16/17 ?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 07-09-2016, 20:10	Until now there was no mention of changes to the country ranking. Maybe it's just the country part for the team ranking that is taken over 10 years? But that part serves only as a minimum.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 07-09-2016, 20:11	Most important question for me still not clear. Will countries 13-15 keep 5 teams in Europe, also when option 1 for the CL-NC route is used? @bert: And I think it still isn't clear if the 4th CL-team from countries 1-4 is decided by ranking points or that is will just be the 4th in the league.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 07-09-2016, 20:13	And the champions of the lowest 4 countries will have to win 6 (!!) rounds to get to the group stage, so they would nead to start already at the first week of June I guess. That is almost directly after the end of the previous season.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 07-09-2016, 20:13 Edited by: bert.kassies at: 07-09-2016, 20:13	Forza wrote: "@bert: And I think it still isn't clear if the 4th CL-team from countries 1-4 is decided by ranking points or that is will just be the 4th in the league.". True, it was just one of the options.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 07-09-2016, 20:22
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 07-09-2016, 20:38

If one spot in a GS would be free (because of title holder UCL / UEL in the previous season 2017/18), champions of 11 (Czech Rep. at the moment) and 12 (Switzerland at the moment) would not start in play offs � they would go directly to the GS. Therefore we would have 27 teams directly qualified for the GS, 3 teams gualified through CQ and 2 teams qualified through NCQ.

What happens if both spots are free (because both the CL-TH and EL-TH have qualified for CL-GS via their league)?
I guess also champions 11-12 will enter the GS, but then there is still room for 4 teams via the champions route.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 07-09-2016, 20:25	@Forza: Netherlands jump to Top 9 in the new 10-year national ranking. You don't need to worry about places 13-15 for the time being.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 07-09-2016, 20:30	As far as I read it isn't clear yet if the country ranking will also be over 10 years (like the clubranking)? If yes, that would be good for Netherlands since we won't lose the good years yet right now.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Funkmaster Date: 07-09-2016, 20:31 Edited by: Funkmaster at: 07-09-2016, 20:31	That is right, Partizan-Belgrade has written nowhere that there would be a change in the national ranking (10 instead of 5 years). I am not sure if there will be a change, maybe Partizan_Belgrade could tell us...

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 07-09-2016, 20:53	Yes, he did. Look at his post from 19:33h.

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 07-09-2016, 22:04

Dear footbal friends all over the world,

I'm really not sure now about the time periode for calculation of national coefficients.

In my papers the expression "10 previous years" appears only by mention of club coefficent (Performance & Bonus).

Also I can see the expression "Association coefficient remains unchanged".

Also I can see in columne CURRENT CLUB COEFFICIENT the expression "Association part previous 5 years, 20%".

Also I see in columne NEW CLUB COEFFICIENT the expression "Minimum guarantee 20% of NA Coefficient (if individual club coefficient inferior / null)"

I will send original file to Bert and he should try to clarify for all of us.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 07-09-2016, 22:41

Ok, so it is clearly stated that the association coefficient (aka country ranking) remains unchanged. Thus still calculated with the same components over 5-years.

The changes are just for the club coefficient aka the team ranking.

1) Match results and bonus points taken over 10 years. There is no mention of qualification points. So, that are details that still need to be settled by the UEFA Club Competitions Committee.

2) Titles as Partizan_Belgrade stated.

3) There will a minimum of "20% of NA coefficient" instead of the "association part previous 5 years 20%". This formulation still leaves room for speculation. But I think it will just be 20% of the 5-year country ranking.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: DIMA_AZERBAIJAN Date: 07-09-2016, 22:48	Partizan TITELS: Last 5 seasons: UCL 15 (or 12, will be decided in next months), UEL 3 As of 1992/93: UCL 10 (or 8, will be decided in next months), UEL 2 Before 1992/93: UCL 5 (or 4, will be decided in next months), UEL 1 Partizan maybe last 10 seasons????? UCL 15 or 5 seasons?????

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 07-09-2016, 23:09	The key question is will the losers from CLQ2 of both champions and league path have a chance to continue in EL qualification rounds. With so many teams entering CLQ1, in CLQ2 there will be no weak clubs and virtually every opponent is dangerous. I expect a lot of surprises in this round. It would be a disaster if the season would completely end for the champion of a country already in July.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 07-09-2016, 23:10 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 07-09-2016, 23:12	Dima, In 2018 bonus points for titles in the past wiil be as following: Titles from season 2013/14 till season 2017/18: UCL titel 15 (or 12) points, UEL titel 3 points. Titles from season 1992/93 till season 2012/13: UCL titel 10 (or 8) points, UEL titel 2 points. Titles from seasons before 1992/93: UCL titel 5 (or 4) points, UEL titel 1 point.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: paul7 Date: 07-09-2016, 23:42	2 extra rounds for 4 clubs )) what for ?? why ??? So strange. Nogomet,the key question will remain the same.who cares about all this teams ?? Uefa wants to get rid of them until the group stage.we have what we have..

Re: new Champions League format
Author: asyx77 Date: 07-09-2016, 23:43 Edited by: asyx77 at: 07-09-2016, 23:52	At first, Thanks to you, Partizan_Belgrade for this Top Job ! I have a question regarding the NEW CLUB COEFFICIENTS CALCULATION: Will the results of the qualifing rounds also be taken into account ? 2 points for win, 1 point for draw ? Thank you & best regards from Austria.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 08-09-2016, 08:21	@asyx77 Results of qualifing rounds are only taken into account for the country coefficient. And that remains the same. For club coefficients we currently have qualifying points (determined by the round you reach). This proposal does not mention these points. So, we still have to wait for those details.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 08-09-2016, 08:25 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 08-09-2016, 08:26	@asyx77: I don't think so. The results of qualification rounds will be probably taken into account only for calculation of national coefficients. In original file is an expression "Association coefficient remains unchanged". For my opinion, that means also in future 1 point for win, and 0,5 point for draw. EDIT: Bert was faster.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Funkmaster Date: 08-09-2016, 10:02 Edited by: Funkmaster at: 08-09-2016, 10:03	Partizan_Belgrade, you do not know if the countries 13 - 15 will send 4 or 5 teams to european competitions? Anyway, like I said before, thank you for this top-job and sharing your informations with us, I think all of us really appreciate that

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 08-09-2016, 10:22
Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade
at: 08-09-2016, 10:34

Funkmaster,

If Non Champions Path - Option 1 will be taken, countries 13-15 will have for sure:
- Champion in CQ
- CW in UEL GS

If Non Champions - Option 2 will be taken, countries 13-15 will have for sure:
- Champion in CQ
- Runner up in NCQ

But be carefull, the access list for UEFA Europa League (2018-2021) is not made at all, the Working Group will make it until the end of 2016. I have no details about final number of clubs in UEL for each country. I have only final number of clubs directly in GS of UEL.

-------------------------

Btw, your sentence in Forum 2...

"You can also already say that the champions of country 11 and 12 will play almost every year CL-group stage, because it is quite sure (for about 99 %) that the CL-winner is already qualified in his league. And if that?s the case, both (champions of 11 and 12) play CL-GS, if I?m right."

...is wright! That's it! I have already written that in my post:
Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 07-09-2016, 17:12
Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade
at: 07-09-2016, 17:26

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 08-09-2016, 10:25	@Partizan But in the document you posted it says that Option 1 of NCQ includes only clubs from countries 5-12, and as a compensation countries 13-15 get a direct spot in EL-GS.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: asyx77 Date: 08-09-2016, 10:30	Thx for the answer@ partizan_belgrade & bertl. In my opinion, one of the most important facts (for the qualifying modus) would be, that the looser of CL Q2 change to EL Q3.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 08-09-2016, 10:32 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 08-09-2016, 10:35	@ Cro_nogomet: I will correct my post above, I made mistake few minutes ago. EDIT: Now ist ok in post above.

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 08-09-2016, 11:14
Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade
at: 08-09-2016, 11:16

Because I have in next days and weeks lot of duties "on the road" (outside my living place) and really no time for discuss here often, I will send to Bert in few minutes some original files that I recieved (most important files), so that all of you can daily exchange informations and your opinions about this "hot" topic, that we discuss about.

Those files are not to be published, but Bert will have for sure (with original files in his hands) answers on any your question.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Ricardo Date: 08-09-2016, 12:45	Thanks for sharing this info! I'm curious how it all will work out. I still don't like the plan, though at least we have a better picture how it ill look like!

Author: lukaszkamienicki
Date: 08-09-2016, 14:34
Edited by: lukaszkamienicki
at: 08-09-2016, 14:39

Here is the list of top ten European clubs by historic titles bonus points (if it works like Partizan_Belgrade says):

OPTION 1/OPTION 2
Real Madrid � 92/74
Barcelona � 50/40
Milan � 50/40
Bayern Munich � 37/30
Liverpool � 34/28
Ajax � 28/21
Internazionale � 25/21
Manchester Utd � 25/20
Juventus � 19/16
Porto � 19/16

Such an incredible boost for Real Madrid!

A total of 39 teams have a chance to get some historic titles points this way. Maybe in 2018�19 season Nottingham Forest will benefit from their 10 possible bonus points?

Author: Cloakmaster
Date: 08-09-2016, 15:46

My Fancy antasy access list:

CL, champions path:
- 40 Champions ranked 15 and lower playing in 10 Gropus of 4

- Group winners advance to CL-Playoffs
- 2nd placed teams advance to EL-Playoffs

Playoffs: 10 Group winners play against each other, 5 winners advance to CL-GS, 5 loosers go to EL-GS

Nonchampions path:

NC-q2:

- 2nd placed teams from Nations 15-20 (6)
- 3rd placed teams from Nations 9-15 (6)
loosers go to EL-q3

NC-q3
- winners from NC-q2 (6)
- 2nd placed teams from nations 9-15 (6)
- 3rd placed team from nation 8 (1)
- 4th placed teams from nations 5-6 (2)
- 5th placed teams from nations 1-3 (3)
loosers go to EL-q4

NC-Playoffs
- winners from NC-q3 (9)
- EL title holder (1)
- 2nd placed team from nation 8 (1)
- 3rd placed teams from nations 5-7 (3)
- 4th placed teams from nations 1-4 (4)
loosers go to EL-GQ

CL Group Stage:
- CL title holder (1)
- winners from champions-Playoffs (5)
- winners from NC-Playoffs (9)
- champions from Nations 1-14 (14)
- 2nd placed teams from Nations 1-7 (7)
- 3rd placed teams from nations 1-4 (4)

Altogehter: 40 Teams playing in 8 Groups of 5, further rouds as usual.

In this ranking I set Liechtenstein as Rank #55 (fixed)

EL-q1
- loosing cup finalist from Liechtenstein (1)
- 2nd placed teams from nations 32-54 (23)
- 3rd placed teams from nations 26-54 (29)
- 4th placed teams from nattions 17-25 (9)
- 5th placed teams from nations 11-16 (6)
- 6th placed teams from nations 7-10 (4)
- 7th placed teams from nations 4-6 (3)
- 8th placed teams from nations 1-3 (3)

EL-q2
- winners from q1 (39)
- cup winner from Liechtenstein (1)
- cup winners from Nations 26-54 (29)
- 2nd placed teams from nations 26-31 (6)
- 3rd placed teams from nations 17-25 (9)
- 4th placed teams from nations 11-16 (6)
- 5th placed teams from nations 7-10 (4)
- 6th placed teams from nations 4-6 (3)
- 7th placed teams from nations 1-3 (3)

EL-q3
- loosers from NC-q2 (6)
- winners from EL-q2 (50)
- cup winners from nations 19-27 (9)
- 2nd placed teams from nations 21-25 (5)
- 3rd placed teams from nations 15-16 (2)
- 4th placed teams from nations 7-10 (4)
- 5th placed teams from nations 4-6 (3)
- 6th placed teams from nations 1-3 (3)

EL-Playoffs
- 2nd placed teams from Champions qualifications group stage (10)
- loosers from NC-q3 (9)
- winners from EL-q3 (41)

EL-Group Stage
- Cup winners from Nations 1-16 (16)
- Winners from EL-Playoffs (30)
- loosers from CL-playoff champiosn path (5)
- loosers from CL-Playoffs Nonchampions path (9)

Altogehther: 60 teams playing in 12 gropus of 5, futher rounds as before.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 08-09-2016, 16:33 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 08-09-2016, 16:34	Dutch news sites report that the EPFL (representing most professional European leagues) doesn't like the new CL-format, and even threatens to refuse to take CL-matchdays into account when planning dates for national leagues from 2018 on. See also this article: http://www.espnfc.com/uefa-champions-league/story/2945801/uefas-champions-leagu e-and-europa-league-reforms-slammed-by-epfl

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 08-09-2016, 18:26

So, I received the documents from Partizan_Belgrade. Thanks, again. The content of these documents has been discussed above, but maybe I can clarify some details.

First of all, what is the status of these documents? It appears to me that these documents are part of a powerpoint presentation at the 17th General Assembly of ECA (see ECA_GA). In this meeting the "ECA Member Clubs were provided with details of UEFA's Executive Committee decision to amend the UEFA Club Competition concept for the 2018-21 cycle".

The message is clearly that the format of UCL en UEL is not changed. Only the access list changes. With this remark they mean that everything remains the same from the group stage on. Same number of groups and clubs, same knockout rounds, clubs that finish 3th in their UCL group qualify for UEL round of 32, and so on.

The format of the qualifying rounds does change however, like stated above. For UCL the Champions Path has 4 qualifying rounds plus a preliminary round to select 1 team out of the 4 lowest ranked countries. It will be quite a hard task for the UEFA Club Competitions Committee to find empty space on the calendar to play these matches. There is no indication in these documents how this may be achieved. Personally, I think that they should introduce a small PR-league for those 4 teams and give the winner access to next year's Champions League

. On the other hand, these countries usually don't have many teams in the national league, and could rather easily finish the national league by the end of April, or so.

Like discussed above the UCL access list is given in detail (with 2 options). The main difference is for countries at rank 13-15:
- OR runners-up in League Path of the Champions League
- OR cup winners in the UEL group stage.
Technically I don't see why these options should be mutually exclusive. It seems just be made to give something in exchange for the loss of the 2nd UCL team. Both options mention min. 14 countries in UCL and min. 22 countries in UEL.

For UEL the access list has only entries for the group stage. The other details are left to the Club Competions Committee. Except for one major point. Clearly indicated is a Champions Path and a League Path as two separate routes for UEL qualifying. The League Path has the usual 4 qualifying rounds, and the Champions Path has 3 qualifying rounds (Q2, Q3, and PO). This must imply that all champions who fail to qualify for the UCL get another chance in the UEL qualification.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 08-09-2016, 23:01	Let's assume that the CL-TH and EL-TH spots are not used and champions of countries 11 and 12 go directly to CL-GS. What movements in the access list of the champions path could we expect then?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 08-09-2016, 23:11

the Champions Path has 3 qualifying rounds (Q2, Q3, and PO). This must imply that all champions who fail to qualify for the UCL get another chance in the UEL qualification.

So to make the numbers correct this Champions Path in EL-Q should look like this:
Q2: 20 teams (3 losers CL-"Q0" + 17 losers CL-Q1)
Q3: 20 teams (10 winners EL-Q2 + 10 losers CL-Q2)
Q4: 16 teams (10 winners EL-Q3 + 6 losers CL-Q3)

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 08-09-2016, 23:28

Let's assume that the CL-TH and EL-TH spots are not used and champions of countries 11 and 12 go directly to CL-GS. What movements in the access list of the champions path could we expect then?

If both the CL-TH and EL-TH are qualified for CL-GS via their league, then there is 1 spot open in the CL-GS, since you have 26 direct qualifiers (1st-4th from 1-4, 1st-2nd from 5-6, 1st from 7-12) and 5 via the QR's (3 in the Champions Path and 2 in the Non-Champions Path).

It would make sence that the extra spot will come from the Champions Path, so there should be 4 matches in Q4. You can get to this by letting 13-14 start in Q4, 15-16 start in Q3, 18-19 start in Q2, and 52-53 start in Q1, so you get this schedule:
Q0: 2 teams (54-55)
Q1: 34 teams (20-53 (except Lie) + 1 winner Q0)
Q2: 20 teams (17-19 + 17 winners Q1)
Q3: 12 teams (15-16 + 10 winners Q2)
Q4: 8 teams (13-14 + 6 winners Q3)

There will probably be other ways to get to the extra qualfier from the Champions Path possible.

Author: Overgame
Date: 09-09-2016, 11:37

I would find it really weird to see a "Champion path" in EL if they give a direct spot to the CW from the countries ranked 1-15 (option 1). But if they do, the EL qualifiers will be hell.
1-4 : 5th in ELGS (4)
1-15 : CW in ELGS (15)
CHqR4 losers in ELGS (4)
NCqR3+qR4 losers in ELGS (6)

29 spots are already used, there are only 19 spots left. If they create a "Champion Path" in EL like Forza-AZ did :

So to make the numbers correct this Champions Path in EL-Q should look like this:
Q2: 20 teams (3 losers CL-"Q0" + 17 losers CL-Q1)
Q3: 20 teams (10 winners EL-Q2 + 10 losers CL-Q2)
Q4: 16 teams (10 winners EL-Q3 + 6 losers CL-Q3)

8 more spots are used, 19-8 = 11 spots left. If the berths are not changed (with the exception of countried 13-15 losing a NCqCL spot) the EL qualifiers will involve
1-4 : 6th (4)
5-12 : 4th and 5th (16)
13-15 : 2nd and 3rd (6)
16-51 : CW 2nd and 3rd (except Liechtenstein) (105)
52-53 : 2nd and CW (4)
53-54 : CW (2)
Lichtenstein : CW (1)

138 teams. For 11 spots.
I perhaps did a small mistake in the number of teams involved, but I want a general picture.

Only skipping q1.
q1 : 100 teams
q2 : 50+38 teams
q3 : 44 teams
q4 : 22 teams

Teams skipping qR1.
1-4 : 6th (4)
5-12 : 4th and 5th (16)
13-15 : 2nd and 3rd (6)
16-27 : CW (12)

More for the highest.
q1 : 126 teams
q2 : 63+3=66 teams (5-6 : 5th + 7 : 4th)
q3 : 33+9=44 teams (1-4 : 6th + 5-6 : 4th + 7-9 : 3rd)
q4 : 22 teams

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 09-09-2016, 12:38
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 09-09-2016, 12:42

I think your numbers are not correct:

-directly qualified for EL-GS: CW's 1-12 (maybe also 13-15), EL2 1-4 = 16 (maybe 19 teams)
-losers CL-Q4 (Champions Path 4 (most likely 3 when CL-TH is not used), Non-Champions Path 2) = 6 (maybe 5)
-winners EL-Q Champions Path: 8

So total: 16 (or 19) + 6 (or 5) + 8 = min. 29, max. 33

Still left for EL-Q Non Champions Path: 48 - 29 / 33 = min. 15, max. 19.
In the current situation you have 22 spots in EL-Q4, but the 10 losers of CL-Q3 Ch are also in that. If you would pair them together you have 17 spots for other teams in the current situation. So not much difference compared to the new situation.

I see the main difference is that you have the losers of CL-Q3 NC directly to the group stage, while it is more likely they just have to start in EL-Q4 NC like they do now.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 09-09-2016, 12:59	@Forza-AZ The document obtained by Partizan_Belgrade apparently says that losers from NCQ3 also get direct access to EL-GS.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: SimonB Date: 09-09-2016, 14:15	Could it also be perhaps that the UEL has a preliminary round added (or even 2!)?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-09-2016, 14:18	@Cro_nogomet, that is not correct. The documents of Partizan_Belgrade only say two things about the Europa League: 1) who qualifies directly for the group stage (nothing about EL qualifiers or CL dropouts), 2) the qualifying rounds of EL have a champion path (Q2,Q3,Q4) and a league part (Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4). That is all.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 09-09-2016, 14:27	@Bert I'm only saying what Partizan_Belgrade wrote in his original post. Nobody corrected him so I assumed that it was true, given that only you and him have access to the access list proposal.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-09-2016, 14:43	Ok, ok. ... I understand. I'm only trying to explain I don't wanna look like a smartass.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 09-09-2016, 16:31 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 09-09-2016, 16:36	@ Cro_nogomet: I'm wright, losers from NCQ3 (4 teams) are also qualified for UEL GS like losers from NC play offs (2 teams). In summation 4 + 2 = 6 teams.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-09-2016, 16:51	Pfft, my bad. I blame my old eyes But indeed, zoomed in there is written in the group stage "4 CH-PO" en "6 LP Q3 & PO". I missed that piece of info. Sorry!

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-09-2016, 17:12	But I agree with Forza. It's not logical. And I doubt if that is still there when Giorgio Marchetti and his boys went through it. But that is my personal opinion. Not based on facts.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Overgame Date: 09-09-2016, 17:32	I used Partizan_Belgrade's post for NCqR3 and the idea of a separate dropout route for the champions.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 09-09-2016, 19:54	So that would indeed mean only 11-15 spots for teams in the Non-Champions EL-Q. That will be very hard indeed to qualify from that. I do like all Champions getting a 2nd chance in EL, but don't see why they shouldn't be mixed together with all other teams in the EL-Q like is done right now.

Author: Kroezero
Date: 10-09-2016, 13:02

I personally still dislike this 'reward' for cupwinners to be directly qualified for the groupstage. Like FC Z�rich this year. Only their fans like it, but come on, as a neutral you want the best possible teams there. And you do not want to see there a second division team from Switzerland.
But now I get it. It is an evil plan of the top-leagues, that in case of a surprise in their cup, a team that probably wouldn't make it through the qualification, now will. While on the other hand their league qualifiers will also. At the expense of the runners-up of countries ranked 15-25.
Why, o why, do countries like Croatia, Serbia, Hungary etc. sell out their teams so easily?

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 10-09-2016, 16:32
Edited by: bert.kassies
at: 10-09-2016, 16:35

Based on historical titles the following points will be added to the 2018 club coefficients:

                    option 1  option 2
---------------------   ----      ----
Real Madrid               92        74
FC Barcelona              55        45
AC Milan                  52        42
Bayern M�nchen            38        31
Liverpool                 34        28
Ajax                      27        22
Manchester United         26        21
Internazionale            25        21
Juventus                  20        17
FC Porto                  19        16
Chelsea                   15        13
Sevilla                   13        13
Borussia Dortmund         11         9
Olympique Marseille       10         8
Nottingham Forest         10         8
Benfica                   10         8
Feyenoord                  8         7
PSV Eindhoven              6         5
Hamburger SV               6         5
AC Parma                   6         6
Steaua Bucuresti           5         4
Red Star Belgrade          5         4
Celtic                     5         4
Atl�tico Madrid            5         5
Aston Villa                5         4
Valencia                   3         3
Tottenham Hotspur          3         3
Anderlecht                 3         3
Zenit St. Petersburg       2         2
Shakhtar Donetsk           2         2
Schalke 04                 2         2
Real Zaragoza              2         2
Paris Saint-Germain        2         2
Lazio Roma                 2         2
IFK G�teborg               2         2
Galatasaray                2         2
Dinamo Kiev                2         2
CSKA Moscow                2         2
Borussia M�nchengladbach   2         2
Arsenal                    2         2
West Ham United            1         1
Werder Bremen              1         1
Sporting CP Lisbon         1         1
Slovan Bratislava          1         1
Sampdoria                  1         1
Napoli                     1         1
Manchester City            1         1
KV Mechelen                1         1
Ipswich Town               1         1
Glasgow Rangers            1         1
Everton                    1         1
Eintracht Frankfurt        1         1
Dinamo Tbilisi             1         1
Bayer Leverkusen           1         1
Aberdeen                   1         1
1.FC Magdeburg             1         1

Titles of 2017 and 2018 still need to be added.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 10-09-2016, 16:51	@Kroezero Cupwinners won a trophy, the other teams didn't. So I like it that them winning a trophy is rewarded with a better spot in the EL. It's nice to see some different teams in EL-group stage from year to year, and not always the same teams.

Author: Kroezero
Date: 10-09-2016, 18:16
Edited by: Kroezero
at: 10-09-2016, 18:16

@Forza-AZ

I think the reward is allready there, as they are qualified for Europe, what ever their league position was. Last year in the Netherlands we had a very weak cupwinner in the club from my hometown, FC Groningen. They scored only 2 points in the groupstage. I think the number 3 of the league would have scored more and Groningen could have made more points in the qualifying rounds. OK, the Netherlands are deliberatly undermining their position by organising an EL play-off, with the risk that the number 8 qualifies over number 5. Now it all adds up and we are falling down the ranks.
And winning the FA cup is an achievement, but winning the Dutch cup? If I remember correctly Groningen won it, with their best opponent finishing 8th that season. And two of the five were amateur-teams.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 11-09-2016, 11:05	You can indeed win the Cup with a very easy draw. And the EL-play-offs didn't contribute to the fall in the rankings I think. It's not that the other teams involved in the play-offs would have done (much) better in the EL-QRs.

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 11-09-2016, 17:06
Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade
at: 11-09-2016, 17:08

@
Author: asyx77
Date: 08-09-2016, 10:30
...In my opinion, one of the most important facts (for the qualifying modus) would be, that the looser of CL Q2 change to EL Q3.
---------------------------

Yes, that would be obviously the case by CH-path! I look in the papers and I can see in access list for Europa League also CQ2 teams (near CQ3 teams and PO teams, all of them noticed as "Teams from qualification phase, CH-path")!

Author: lukaszkamienicki
Date: 11-09-2016, 19:59

@Bert, are you sure that any trophies except for CL and EL will be taken into account? Partizan_Belgrade mentioned only these two. I've made my calculations excluding CWC.

			    opt. 1  opt. 2
Real Madrid			92	74
Barcelona			50	40
Milan				50	40
Bayern Munich			37	30
Liverpool			34	28
Ajax				26	21
Internazionale			25	21
Manchester United		25	20
Juventus			19	16
Porto				19	16
Sevilla				13	13
Chelsea				12	10
Benfica				10	 8
Borussia Dortmund		10	 8
Nottingham Forest		10	 8
Olympique Marseille		10	 8
Feyenoord			 8	 7
PSV			 	 6	 5
Aston Villa			 5 	 4
Celtic				 5	 4
Crvena zvezda			 5	 4
Hamburg				 5	 4
Steaua Bucuresti		 5	 4
Atl�tico Madrid			 4	 4
Parma				 4	 4
Borussia M�nchengladbach	 2	 2
CSKA Moscow			 2	 2
Galatasaray			 2	 2
IFK G�teborg			 2	 2
Schalke 04			 2	 2
Shakhtar Donetsk		 2	 2
Tottenham Hotspur		 2	 2
Valencia			 2	 2
Zenit Saint Petersburg		 2	 2
Anderlecht			 1	 1
Bayer Leverkusen		 1	 1
Eintracht Frankfurt		 1	 1
Ipswich Town			 1	 1
Napoli				 1	 1

So it excludes Aberdeen, Arsenal, Dinamo Tbilisi, Dynamo Kyiv, Everton, Fiorentina, Lazio, Magdeburg, Manchester City, Mechelen, Paris Saint-Germain, Rangers, Real Zaragoza, Sampdoria, Slovan Bratislava, Sporting, Werder Bremen, and West Ham United, which won "only" CWC.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 12-09-2016, 09:48	No, I am not sure. But the Europa League is some kind of combination of the old UEFA Cup and the Cup Winners Cup. From 2000 till 2009 the UEFA Cup also included cup winners. But the UEFA Cup before 1999 is not the same as the Europa League. We will see.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: lukaszkamienicki Date: 12-09-2016, 12:13	Hmmm, I think that UEFA Cup from 1999 to 2009 was not the same as UEFA Cup before 1999 because of its merger with CWC.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Malko Date: 12-09-2016, 18:50	points for "historical" titles?....more ridiculous, you can't. What has a club today to do with a title won 40 years ago???? Nothing !!!!!! and so, the finalist of CL gets nothing while the winner of EL gets points?.....also this is ridiculous!

Author: Johnzon
Date: 14-09-2016, 11:11

We are waiting for UEFA to close the last gap with the Challenge League, for teams that did not qualify for Champions or Europa League through their domestic league.

This year participants would be:

Chelsea (Group A)
Valencia (Group B)
Lazio (Group A)
Liverpool (Group B)
Vfl Wolfsburg (Group A)
AC Milan (Group B)
Rubin Kazan (Group B)
Malaga CF (Group A)

Galatasaray and Dnipro are banned by UEFA.

Matches to be played on Tuesday & Wednesday at Noon to satisfy prime time in China...

Author: MHaifa
Date: 15-09-2016, 00:45
Edited by: MHaifa
at: 15-09-2016, 02:07

I think we all should admit it - The current champions league format is not good. we don't get enouth interesting matches, and in many cases the big teams lose interest in the matchdays 5-6.
For example - Bayern, Atletico, PSV and Rostov. Yes, we are going to watch rematch of last year's semi final twice which is great, but does anyone really have doubts about who is going to advance from this group?

I will suggest a totally differnt format, allowing more games between the big teams in the first stage:
24 teams, divided for 4 pots of 6 teams. Each team plays two games against teams in each pot, which means that every team plays 8 games at this stage.

For example:
Pot A : Barcelona, Bayern, Real, Juve, Atletico, City.
Pot B: Arsenal, Dortmund, Porto, Benfica, Sevilla, PSG.
Pot C: Lyon, Basel, Tottenham, Kiev, Leverkusen, Napoli.
Pot D: CSKA, PSV, Monaco, Leicester, Sporting, Gladbach.

Here is the schedule for Juventus for example: Monaco(H), Bayern(A), Barcelona(H), CSKA(A), Basel(H), Napoli(A), Porto(H), Sevilla(A).

Eventually, we will get a single table of 24 teams, with each team have 0-24 points.
4 Top teams get a direct ticket to quarter finals. Teams ranked 5-12 advance to the second round, where the 4 winners will advance to the quarter-finals as well.
There is also an option to adopt playoff system similiar to the one used in the NFL. which means that the highest ranked team gets to play against the lowest ranked team, the second highest ranked team gets to play against the second lowest ranked team and so on.

For example, if that was the situation in the first round:
1. Real
2. Bayern
3. City
4. Barcelona

5. Juve
6. Dortmund
7. Atletico
8. Sevilla
9. Arsenal
10.Porto
11. Tottenham
12. Benfica

Then the second round matches will be:
Benfica- Juve (Higher ranked teams host second game)
Tottenham - Dortmund
Porto - Atletico
Arsenal - Sevilla.

Let's say that Juve, Tottenham, Atletico and Sevilla won.

Then the quarter finals matches will be:
Tottenham - Real
Arsenal - Bayern
Atletico - City
Juve - Barcelona.

Did you see what happend here? Real gets to play against much more pleasant opponent than Barcelona only because they did better in the first round!

Advantages:
1. The first round is very important for the rest of the season, each game and each score can make an impact on the road to the final for the big teams.
2. We get to see many games between big teams, there will be 6 games (almost every matchday) between the best 6 teams in the continent, and 18 more games between the 12 best teams in the continent.
For example: Bayern - Juve, City - PSG and Barcelona - Arsenal all in one matchday!
3. Each team plays against 8 different teams compared to only 3 teams now. Which means: The games will vary much more - we will watch 96 completely differnet matches and not 48 matches that played twice.
4. More teams to play against - lower chance of unfair draws. there is much lower chance to be drawed against 8 "too easy" or "too difficult" teams compared to nowdays 3 teams.

Disadvantages:
1. There will be also 6 "not interesting" matches between the Pot D teams.
2. 8 matches might not be enough for 24 teams league. There is a chance that too many teams will have the same amount of points, which might make the advancing system a bit crawl.
3. There will probably have to be matches between teams from the same country.

Author: vicenzo
Date: 15-09-2016, 13:16

Hello, could someone summarize what might happen with this new CL format?

Thse may be obvious questions, but

1/ Will it be the country ranking in the end of season 2016/2017 or season 2017/2018 which will be taken into account ?

2/ Country ranking still calculated within 5 years?

3/ in the group stage, how would it be organized for the countries?
16 teams for country 1-4 (4 per country)
2 teams for country 5
2 teams for country 6
1 team for country 7,8,9,10 => 4 teams
1 CL Title holder
1 EL Title Holder
4 teams through the Champions qualifications
2 teams through the NON-Champions qualifications

Is that it?
If the CL & EL title holder are from the teams already qualified in GS, 1 team for countries 11 and 12 would be added?

3/bis The 2 or 4 teams qualified are still the better ranked within the championship, or if Milan (for example) is 5th in the end of the Italian Championship, it would be qualified instead of the 4th because of a better historic nmber of points ?

4/ About qualifications, I saw the 2 options... 2 rounds at least for every team.
I am surprised as in France, the president of Lyon said (and the medias repeated it) that the 5th ranked country would only have one qualification round... Is he mistaken? (it is obviously possible ^^)

5/ About the club coefficient calculation uefa...
On 10 years instead of 5?
Same calculation, but wwe remove the country part (except for the really low-ranked teams) and we add a new historic part?
we will have total coefficicients of 300 points (barcelone or Real for example)?

6/ There is a new UEFA president... Could all this be cancelled or even modified?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 15-09-2016, 16:35
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 15-09-2016, 16:36

1/ Will it be the country ranking in the end of season 2016/2017 or season 2017/2018 which will be taken into account ?

This will remain the same like now, so ranking of 2017 will determine entries for 2018-19.

2/ Country ranking still calculated within 5 years?

Yes

3/ in the group stage, how would it be organized for the countries?
16 teams for country 1-4 (4 per country)
2 teams for country 5
2 teams for country 6
1 team for country 7,8,9,10 => 4 teams
1 CL Title holder
1 EL Title Holder
4 teams through the Champions qualifications
2 teams through the NON-Champions qualifications

Is that it?
If the CL & EL title holder are from the teams already qualified in GS, 1 team for countries 11 and 12 would be added?

Both champions of 11 and 12 would qualify directly with only 3 spots left for the ChQ. Not sure what happens if both TH-spots are open however.

3/bis The 2 or 4 teams qualified are still the better ranked within the championship, or if Milan (for example) is 5th in the end of the Italian Championship, it would be qualified instead of the 4th because of a better historic nmber of points ?

Nothing in documents so far points to historic qualification for 4th team of countries 1-4, so so far it looks like that spot will just go to 4th in the league.

4/ About qualifications, I saw the 2 options... 2 rounds at least for every team.
I am surprised as in France, the president of Lyon said (and the medias repeated it) that the 5th ranked country would only have one qualification round... Is he mistaken? (it is obviously possible ^^)

2 rounds indeed at least (except for champions of 11 and 12 if they don't qualify directly)

5/ About the club coefficient calculation uefa...
On 10 years instead of 5?
Same calculation, but wwe remove the country part (except for the really low-ranked teams) and we add a new historic part?
we will have total coefficicients of 300 points (barcelone or Real for example)?

Over 10 years indeed with 20% of country not as a bonus, but as a minium. Numbers will indeed be much higher for teams that won a lot of CL-titles.

6/ There is a new UEFA president... Could all this be cancelled or even modified?

Final decisions haven't been made yet, so indeed always possible that there will be changes made. Also because there are protests from the organiation of the national leagues.

Author: lukaszkamienicki
Date: 15-09-2016, 18:05

What new coefficient system would look like?
I've made some calculations for six best ranked teams in 2016 ranking, with 20% country coefficient part deducted, points from 10 previous seasons aggregated and historic titles points added.

		  current  new
Real Madrid	  176.142  334.0 (242.0 + 92)
Barcelona	  163.035  314.0 (264.0 + 50)
Bayern Munich	  159.132  297.0 (260.0 + 37)
Atl�tico Madrid	  144.142  190.0 (186.0 +  4)
Chelsea		  136.256  245.0 (233.0 + 12)
Benfica		  116.616  194.5 (184.5 + 10)

As you see, bonus points and longer period taken into consideration changes a lot.

Author: JPV
Date: 15-09-2016, 20:55
Edited by: JPV
at: 15-09-2016, 20:57

The new ranking before this evening's games, based on last 10 years (2007/2008-2016/2017, so current year included)
(option 1 & 2, based on Bert Kassies's posts.

Real Madrid Esp 326 308
FC Barcelona Esp 310 300
Bayern M�nchen Ger 279 272
Chelsea Eng 225 223
Manchester United Eng 207 202
Atl�tico Madrid Esp 188 188
FC Porto Por 183 180
Arsenal Eng 175 175
Benfica Por 176 174
AC Milan Ita 163 153
Juventus Ita 153 150
Sevilla Esp 144,5 144,5
Shakhtar Donetsk Ukr 144 144
Liverpool Eng 149 143
Internazionale Ita 146 142
Zenit St. Petersburg Rus 138,5 138,5
Paris Saint-Germain Fra 137 137
Valencia Esp 131 131
Schalke 04 Ger 130 130
Olympique Lyon Fra 125,5 125,5
Manchester City Eng 121 121
Borussia Dortmund Ger 120 118
FC Basel Sui 115 115
Ajax Ned 117 112
Dinamo Kiev Ukr 110 110
PSV Eindhoven Ned 111 110
Tottenham Hotspur Eng 109 109
Bayer Leverkusen Ger 108 108
Olympiakos Piraeus Gre 105 105
CSKA Moscow Rus 100,5 100,5
Olympique Marseille Fra 102 100
Villarreal Esp 100 100
Sporting CP Lisbon Por 97 97
Fiorentina Ita 96 96
Napoli Ita 92 92
AS Roma Ita 85,5 85,5
Galatasaray Tur 84,5 84,5
Anderlecht Bel 81 81
Sporting Braga Por 76,5 76,5
Fenerbah�e Tur 70,5 70,5
Celtic Sco 69,5 68,5
Girondins Bordeaux Fra 66 66
VfL Wolfsburg Ger 66 66
Rubin Kazan Rus 65 65
Athletic Bilbao Esp 64 64
FC K�benhavn Den 63 63
Lazio Ita 62 62
Hamburger SV Ger 62 61
Club Brugge Bel 60 60
Werder Bremen Ger 59 59
Besiktas Tur 58 58
AZ Alkmaar Ned 57,5 57,5
FC Salzburg Aut 56,5 56,5
Sparta Praha Cze 56 56
Metalist Kharkiv Ukr 55,5 55,5
Steaua Bucuresti Rom 55,5 54,5
FC Twente Enschede Ned 53,5 53,5
Panathinaikos Gre 53 53
BATE Borisov Bls 51,5 51,5
VfB Stuttgart Ger 50,5 50,5
Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk Ukr 50 50
Standard Li�ge Bel 48,5 48,5
Spartak Moscow Rus 45 45
PAOK Thessaloniki Gre 44 44
APOEL Nicosia Cyp 43 43
Dinamo Zagreb Cro 42 42
Everton Eng 41 41
Viktoria Plzen Cze 41 41
Glasgow Rangers Sco 40,5 40,5
Lille OSC Fra 39 39
Celta de Vigo Esp 36,2689 36,2689
Deportivo La Coru�a Esp 36,2689 36,2689
Getafe Esp 36,2689 36,2689
Levante UD Esp 36,2689 36,2689
M�laga CF Esp 36,2689 36,2689
Racing Santander Esp 36,2689 36,2689
Real Betis Esp 36,2689 36,2689
Real Sociedad Esp 36,2689 36,2689
Real Zaragoza Esp 36,2689 36,2689
Spain Esp 36,2689 36,2689
Racing Genk Bel 33 33
AS Saint-�tienne Fra 32,5 32,5
Trabzonspor Tur 32,5 32,5
Aston Villa Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Birmingham City Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Blackburn Rovers Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Bolton Wanderers Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Fulham FC Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Hull City Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Ipswich Town Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Leicester City Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Newcastle United Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Nottingham Forest Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Portsmouth FC Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Southampton FC Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Stoke City Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Swansea City Eng 32,1123 32,1123
West Ham United Eng 32,1123 32,1123
Wigan Athletic Eng 32,1123 32,1123
England Eng 32,1123 32,1123
AS Monaco Fra 32 32
Borussia M�nchengladbach Ger 32 32
Hapoel Tel-Aviv Isr 31,5 31,5
Udinese Ita 31,5 31,5
1.FC Magdeburg Ger 30,4632 30,4632
1.FC N�rnberg Ger 30,4632 30,4632
Eintracht Frankfurt Ger 30,4632 30,4632
FC Augsburg Ger 30,4632 30,4632
FSV Mainz 05 Ger 30,4632 30,4632
Hannover 96 Ger 30,4632 30,4632
Hertha BSC Ger 30,4632 30,4632
SC Freiburg Ger 30,4632 30,4632
Germany Ger 30,4632 30,4632
Young Boys Sui 30 30
Legia Warsaw Pol 28,5 28,5
Lokomotiv Moscow Rus 28 28
Ludogorets Razgrad Bul 28 28
Rapid Wien Aut 27,5 27,5
CFR Cluj Rom 27 27
FC Z�rich Sui 27 27
Rosenborg BK Nor 27 27
AaB Aalborg Den 26 26
AC Parma Ita 25,6283 25,6283
Empoli Ita 25,6283 25,6283
Genoa Ita 25,6283 25,6283
Palermo Ita 25,6283 25,6283
Sampdoria Ita 25,6283 25,6283
Sassuolo Ita 25,6283 25,6283
Torino Ita 25,6283 25,6283
Italy Ita 25,6283 25,6283
Austria Wien Aut 25,5 25,5
Lech Poznan Pol 25,5 25,5
AA Gent Bel 25 25
Feyenoord Ned 25,5 24,5
Partizan Belgrade Srb 24,5 24,5
NK Maribor Slo 23,5 23,5
Anzhi Makhachkala Rus 21 21
AJ Auxerre Fra 20,969 20,969
AS Nancy Lorraine Fra 20,969 20,969
En Avant Guingamp Fra 20,969 20,969
FC Sochaux-Montb�liard Fra 20,969 20,969
Montpellier Fra 20,969 20,969
OGC Nice Fra 20,969 20,969
RC Lens Fra 20,969 20,969
Stade Rennais Fra 20,969 20,969
Toulouse FC Fra 20,969 20,969
France Fra 20,969 20,969
Acad�mica Coimbra Por 20,9326 20,9326
CF Os Belenenses Por 20,9326 20,9326
Estoril Praia Por 20,9326 20,9326
FC Arouca Por 20,9326 20,9326
Maritimo Funchal Por 20,9326 20,9326
Nacional Funchal Por 20,9326 20,9326
Pa�os de Ferreira Por 20,9326 20,9326
Rio Ave Por 20,9326 20,9326
Uni�o de Leiria Por 20,9326 20,9326
Vit�ria Guimar�es Por 20,9326 20,9326
Vit�ria Set�bal Por 20,9326 20,9326
Portugal Por 20,9326 20,9326
Maccabi Tel-Aviv Isr 20 20
Alania Vladikavkaz Rus 19,9353 19,9353
Amkar Perm Rus 19,9353 19,9353
Dinamo Moscow Rus 19,9353 19,9353
FK Krasnodar Rus 19,9353 19,9353
FK Moscow Rus 19,9353 19,9353
FK Rostov Rus 19,9353 19,9353
Krylia Sovetov Samara Rus 19,9353 19,9353
Kuban Krasnodar Rus 19,9353 19,9353
Sibir Novosibirsk Rus 19,9353 19,9353
Russia Rus 19,9353 19,9353
Slovan Liberec Cze 19 19
AEK Athens Gre 18 18
Sheriff Tiraspol Mol 17,75 17,75
Molde FK Nor 17,5 17,5
Arsenal Kiev Ukr 17,3867 17,3867
Chernomorets Odesa Ukr 17,3867 17,3867
FC Oleksandriya Ukr 17,3867 17,3867
Karpaty Lviv Ukr 17,3867 17,3867
Metalurg Donetsk Ukr 17,3867 17,3867
Tavria Simferopol Ukr 17,3867 17,3867
Vorskla Poltava Ukr 17,3867 17,3867
Zorya Luhansk Ukr 17,3867 17,3867
Ukraine Ukr 17,3867 17,3867
Slavia Praha Cze 16,5 16,5
Red Star Belgrade Srb 17,25 16,25
Garabag Agdam Azb 15,5 15,5
MSK Zilina Svk 15,5 15,5
Malm� FF Swe 15 15
ADO Den Haag Ned 14,5656 14,5656
FC Groningen Ned 14,5656 14,5656
FC Utrecht Ned 14,5656 14,5656
Go Ahead Eagles Ned 14,5656 14,5656
Heerenveen Ned 14,5656 14,5656
Heracles Almelo Ned 14,5656 14,5656
NAC Breda Ned 14,5656 14,5656
NEC Nijmegen Ned 14,5656 14,5656
PEC Zwolle Ned 14,5656 14,5656
Vitesse Arnhem Ned 14,5656 14,5656
Netherlands Ned 14,5656 14,5656
Bursaspor Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Erciyesspor Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Eskisehirspor Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Gaziantepspor Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Istanbul Basaksehir Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Karab�kspor Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Kayserispor Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Konyaspor Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Osmanlispor Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Sivasspor Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Turkey Tur 14,5575 14,5575
Aris Thessaloniki Gre 14 14
Cercle Brugge Bel 13,625 13,625
Charleroi Bel 13,625 13,625
KSC Lokeren Bel 13,625 13,625
KV Mechelen Bel 13,625 13,625
KVC Westerlo Bel 13,625 13,625
Zulte Waregem Bel 13,625 13,625
Belgium Bel 13,625 13,625
Anorthosis Famagusta Cyp 13,5 13,5
IF Elfsborg Swe 13,5 13,5
Maccabi Haifa Isr 13,5 13,5
AE Larissa Gre 13,215 13,215
Asteras Tripolis Gre 13,215 13,215
Atromitos FC Gre 13,215 13,215
Olympiakos Volou Gre 13,215 13,215
Panionios Gre 13,215 13,215
PAS Giannina Gre 13,215 13,215
Xanthi FC Gre 13,215 13,215
Greece Gre 13,215 13,215
FC Sion Sui 13 13
FC Midtjylland Den 12,5 12,5
Helsingborg IF Swe 12,5 12,5
HJK Helsinki Fin 12,5 12,5
Unirea Urziceni Rom 12,5 12,5
AC Bellinzona Sui 12,1075 12,1075
FC Luzern Sui 12,1075 12,1075
FC Sankt Gallen Sui 12,1075 12,1075
FC Thun Sui 12,1075 12,1075
Grasshoppers Z�rich Sui 12,1075 12,1075
Lausanne Sports Sui 12,1075 12,1075
Servette FC Gen�ve Sui 12,1075 12,1075
Switzerland Sui 12,1075 12,1075
FK Astana Kaz 11,75 11,75
FC Vaslui Rom 11,5 11,5
NK Rijeka Cro 11,5 11,5
Aberdeen Sco 11 11
Dinamo Bucuresti Rom 11 11
DVSC Debrecen Hun 11 11
Slovan Bratislava Svk 11 11
Wisla Krak�w Pol 11 11
Ban�k Ostrava Cze 10,691 10,691
FK Jablonec Cze 10,691 10,691
FK Teplice Cze 10,691 10,691
Mlad� Boleslav Cze 10,691 10,691
Sigma Olomouc Cze 10,691 10,691
Czech Republic Cze 10,691 10,691
Hajduk Split Cro 10,5 10,5
AC Horsens Den 10,421 10,421
AGF Aarhus Den 10,421 10,421
Br�ndby IF Den 10,421 10,421
Esbjerg fB Den 10,421 10,421
FC Nordsj�lland Den 10,421 10,421
OB Odense Den 10,421 10,421
Randers FC Den 10,421 10,421
S�nderjyskE Den 10,421 10,421
Denmark Den 10,421 10,421
Levski Sofia Bul 10,25 10,25
Admira Wacker Aut 10,051 10,051
FC Pasching Aut 10,051 10,051
SCR Altach Aut 10,051 10,051
St. P�lten Aut 10,051 10,051
Sturm Graz Aut 10,051 10,051
SV Gr�dig Aut 10,051 10,051
SV Mattersburg Aut 10,051 10,051
SV Ried Aut 10,051 10,051
Wolfsberger AC Aut 10,051 10,051
Austria Aut 10,051 10,051
Cibalia Vinkovci Cro 9,3016 9,3016
Lokomotiva Zagreb Cro 9,3016 9,3016
NK Osijek Cro 9,3016 9,3016
NK Sibenik Cro 9,3016 9,3016
NK Varazdin Cro 9,3016 9,3016
RNK Split Cro 9,3016 9,3016
Slaven Koprivnica Cro 9,3016 9,3016
Croatia Cro 9,3016 9,3016
Dundee United Sco 9,1957 9,1957
Dunfermline Athletic Sco 9,1957 9,1957
Falkirk FC Sco 9,1957 9,1957
Hearts FC Sco 9,1957 9,1957
Hibernian Sco 9,1957 9,1957
Inverness CT Sco 9,1957 9,1957
Motherwell Sco 9,1957 9,1957
Queen of the South Sco 9,1957 9,1957
St. Johnstone Sco 9,1957 9,1957
Scotland Sco 9,1957 9,1957
Dinamo Minsk Bls 9 9
FK Ventspils Lat 9 9
Dinamo Tbilisi Geo 8,75 8,75
AEK Larnaca Cyp 8,6566 8,6566
AEL Limassol Cyp 8,6566 8,6566
Apollon Limassol Cyp 8,6566 8,6566
APOP Kinyras Peyias Cyp 8,6566 8,6566
Ermis Aradippou Cyp 8,6566 8,6566
Omonia Nicosia Cyp 8,6566 8,6566
Cyprus Cyp 8,6566 8,6566
AIK Stockholm Swe 8,5 8,5
CSKA Sofia Bul 8,5 8,5
FK Aktobe Kaz 8,5 8,5
ASA Tirgu Mures Rom 8,4928 8,4928
Astra Giurgiu Rom 8,4928 8,4928
CSMS Iasi Rom 8,4928 8,4928
FC Botosani Rom 8,4928 8,4928
FC Timisoara Rom 8,4928 8,4928
Gaz Metan Medias Rom 8,4928 8,4928
Otelul Galati Rom 8,4928 8,4928
Pandurii T�rgu Jiu Rom 8,4928 8,4928
Petrolul Ploiesti Rom 8,4928 8,4928
Rapid Bucuresti Rom 8,4928 8,4928
Viitorul Constanta Rom 8,4928 8,4928
Romania Rom 8,4928 8,4928
Videoton Feh�rv�r Hun 8,25 8,25
Beitar Jerusalem Isr 8,0335 8,0335
Bnei Yehuda Isr 8,0335 8,0335
Hapoel Beer-Sheva Isr 8,0335 8,0335
Hapoel Kiryat Shmona Isr 8,0335 8,0335
Hapoel Ramat-Gan Isr 8,0335 8,0335
Maccabi Netanya Isr 8,0335 8,0335
Israel Isr 8,0335 8,0335
IFK G�teborg Swe 8 8
Cracovia Krak�w Pol 7,95 7,95
GKS Belchatow Pol 7,95 7,95
Groclin Grodzisk Pol 7,95 7,95
Jagiellonia Bialystok Pol 7,95 7,95
Piast Gliwice Pol 7,95 7,95
Polonia Warsaw Pol 7,95 7,95
Ruch Chorzow Pol 7,95 7,95
Slask Wroclaw Pol 7,95 7,95
Zaglebie Lubin Pol 7,95 7,95
Zawisza Bydgoszcz Pol 7,95 7,95
Poland Pol 7,95 7,95
Dinamo Brest Bls 7,855 7,855
Dnepr Mogilev Bls 7,855 7,855
FC Gomel Bls 7,855 7,855
FK Minsk Bls 7,855 7,855
MTZ-Ripo Minsk Bls 7,855 7,855
Naftan Novopolotsk Bls 7,855 7,855
Neman Grodno Bls 7,855 7,855
Shakhtior Saligorsk Bls 7,855 7,855
Torpedo Zhodino Bls 7,855 7,855
Belarus Bls 7,855 7,855
BK H�cken Swe 7,827 7,827
Djurg�rdens IF Swe 7,827 7,827
Gefle IF Swe 7,827 7,827
Hammarby IF Swe 7,827 7,827
IF Brommapojkarna Swe 7,827 7,827
IFK Norrk�ping Swe 7,827 7,827
Kalmar FF Swe 7,827 7,827
�rebro SK Swe 7,827 7,827
Sweden Swe 7,827 7,827
Vojvodina Novi Sad Srb 7,5 7,5
Aalesunds FK Nor 7,302 7,302
FK Haugesund Nor 7,302 7,302
Fredrikstad FK Nor 7,302 7,302
IL H�dd Nor 7,302 7,302
Lillestr�m SK Nor 7,302 7,302
Odd Grenland Nor 7,302 7,302
SK Brann Bergen Nor 7,302 7,302
Stab�k IF Nor 7,302 7,302
Str�msgodset IF Nor 7,302 7,302
Troms� IL Nor 7,302 7,302
V�lerengen IF Nor 7,302 7,302
Viking Stavanger Nor 7,302 7,302
Norway Nor 7,302 7,302
Neftchi Baku Azb 7,25 7,25
Rabotnicki Skopje Mac 7,25 7,25
The New Saints Wal 7,25 7,25
FH Hafnarfjardar Isl 7 7
FK Sarajevo Bos 6,5 6,5
Sk�nderbeu Kor�� Alb 6,5 6,5
Spartak Trnava Svk 6,5 6,5
St. Patrick's Athletic Irl 6,5 6,5
Borac Cacak Srb 6,266 6,266
Cukaricki Belgrade Srb 6,266 6,266
FK Bezanija Srb 6,266 6,266
FK Jagodina Srb 6,266 6,266
FK Rad Belgrade Srb 6,266 6,266
FK Sevojno Srb 6,266 6,266
OFK Belgrade Srb 6,266 6,266
Spartak Zlatibor Voda Srb 6,266 6,266
Serbia Srb 6,266 6,266
Ekranas Panevezys Lit 6,25 6,25
F91 Dudelange Lux 6,25 6,25
Litex Lovech Bul 6,25 6,25
Botev Plovdiv Bul 6,2325 6,2325
Cherno More Varna Bul 6,2325 6,2325
FC Beroe Stara Zagora Bul 6,2325 6,2325
Lokomotiv Plovdiv Bul 6,2325 6,2325
Lokomotiv Sofia Bul 6,2325 6,2325
Slavia Sofia Bul 6,2325 6,2325
Bulgaria Bul 6,2325 6,2325
KR Reykjavik Isl 6 6
Levadia Tallinn Est 6 6
Valletta FC Mlt 5,75 5,75
AS Trenc�n Svk 5,6066 5,6066
Dukla Banska Bystrica Svk 5,6066 5,6066
FC Nitra Svk 5,6066 5,6066
FC Zlat� Moravce Svk 5,6066 5,6066
FK Senica Svk 5,6066 5,6066
MFK Kosice Svk 5,6066 5,6066
Petrzalka Bratislava Svk 5,6066 5,6066
Spartak Myjava Svk 5,6066 5,6066
Slovakia Svk 5,6066 5,6066
Zeljeznicar Sarajevo Bos 5,5 5,5
Pyunik Yerevan Arm 5,25 5,25
Differdange 03 Lux 5 5
Linfield Belfast Nir 5 5
Zalgiris Vilnius Lit 5 5
FC Vaduz Lie 4,75 4,75
Shakhtyor Karaganda Kaz 4,75 4,75
Shamrock Rovers Irl 4,75 4,75
Zrinjski Mostar Bos 4,75 4,75
FK Baku Azb 4,6282 4,6282
Gabala FK Azb 4,6282 4,6282
Inter Baku Azb 4,6282 4,6282
Kapaz Ganja Azb 4,6282 4,6282
Khazar Lenkoran Azb 4,6282 4,6282
MKT-Araz Azb 4,6282 4,6282
Olimpik Baku Azb 4,6282 4,6282
Simurq Zaqatala Azb 4,6282 4,6282
Azerbaijan Azb 4,6282 4,6282
Birkirkara Mlt 4,5 4,5
FC Zestafoni Geo 4,5 4,5
Dila Gori Geo 4,25 4,25
HB Torshavn Far 4,25 4,25
Kalju Nomme Est 4,25 4,25
IB Ljubljana Slo 4,1366 4,1366
Mura Murska Sobota Slo 4,1366 4,1366
NK Celje Slo 4,1366 4,1366
NK Domzale Slo 4,1366 4,1366
NK Koper Slo 4,1366 4,1366
Nova Gorica Slo 4,1366 4,1366
Olimpija Ljubljana Slo 4,1366 4,1366
Rudar Velenje Slo 4,1366 4,1366
Slovenia Slo 4,1366 4,1366
FK Almaty Kaz 4,0141 4,0141
FK Atyrau Kaz 4,0141 4,0141
Irtysh Pavlodar Kaz 4,0141 4,0141
Kairat Almaty Kaz 4,0141 4,0141
Okzhetpes Kokshetau Kaz 4,0141 4,0141
Ordabasy Shymkent Kaz 4,0141 4,0141
Tobol Kustanai Kaz 4,0141 4,0141
Zhetysu Taldykorgan Kaz 4,0141 4,0141
Kazakhstan Kaz 4,0141 4,0141
Cliftonville Nir 4 4
Crusaders Belfast Nir 4 4
Dundalk Irl 4 4
FC Santa Coloma And 4 4
Vardar Skopje Mac 4 4
Di�sgy�ri Miskolc Hun 3,98 3,98
ETO Gy�r Hun 3,98 3,98
Ferencv�ros Hun 3,98 3,98
Halad�s Szombathely Hun 3,98 3,98
Honv�d Budapest Hun 3,98 3,98
Kecskem�ti TE Hun 3,98 3,98
MTK Budapest Hun 3,98 3,98
Paksi FC Hun 3,98 3,98
�jpest TE Hun 3,98 3,98
Zalaegerszeg TE Hun 3,98 3,98
Hungary Hun 3,98 3,98
Buducnost Podgorica Mon 3,75 3,75
Dacia Chisinau Mol 3,75 3,75
Flora Tallinn Est 3,75 3,75
FC Lahti Fin 3,6976 3,6976
Haka Valkeakoski Fin 3,6976 3,6976
Honka Espoo Fin 3,6976 3,6976
IFK Mariehamn Fin 3,6976 3,6976
Inter Turku Fin 3,6976 3,6976
JJK Jyv�skyl� Fin 3,6976 3,6976
KuPS Kuopio Fin 3,6976 3,6976
MyPa-47 Fin 3,6976 3,6976
RoPS Rovaniemi Fin 3,6976 3,6976
SJK Sein�joki Fin 3,6976 3,6976
Tampere United Fin 3,6976 3,6976
TPS Turku Fin 3,6976 3,6976
VPS Vaasa Fin 3,6976 3,6976
Finland Fin 3,6976 3,6976
Rudar Pljevlja Mon 3,5 3,5
Siroki Brijeg Bos 3,5 3,5
FC Tiraspol Mol 3,4232 3,4232
Iskra-Stal Ribnita Mol 3,4232 3,4232
Milsami Orhei Mol 3,4232 3,4232
Nistru Otaci Mol 3,4232 3,4232
Olimpia Balti Mol 3,4232 3,4232
Saxan Gagauz Yeri Mol 3,4232 3,4232
Veris Chisinau Mol 3,4232 3,4232
Zaria Balti Mol 3,4232 3,4232
Zimbru Chisinau Mol 3,4232 3,4232
Moldova Mol 3,4232 3,4232
FK Kuk�si Alb 3,25 3,25
Shkendija Tetovo Mac 3,25 3,25
Skonto Riga Lat 3,25 3,25
Sligo Rovers Irl 3,25 3,25
FK Borac Banja Luka Bos 3,2216 3,2216
FK Modrica Bos 3,2216 3,2216
Olimpic Sarajevo Bos 3,2216 3,2216
Radnik Bijeljina Bos 3,2216 3,2216
Slavija Sarajevo Bos 3,2216 3,2216
Sloboda Tuzla Bos 3,2216 3,2216
Bosnia-Herzegovina Bos 3,2216 3,2216
Ameri Tbilisi Geo 3,1382 3,1382
Chikhura Sachkhere Geo 3,1382 3,1382
Dinamo Batumi Geo 3,1382 3,1382
Gagra Tbilisi Geo 3,1382 3,1382
Georgia Tbilisi Geo 3,1382 3,1382
Olimpi Rustavi Geo 3,1382 3,1382
Samtredia Geo 3,1382 3,1382
Sioni Bolnisi Geo 3,1382 3,1382
Spartak Tskhinvali Geo 3,1382 3,1382
Torpedo Kutaisi Geo 3,1382 3,1382
Georgia Geo 3,1382 3,1382
USV Eschen-Mauren Lie 3,065 3,065
Liechtenstein Lie 3,065 3,065
Bangor City Wal 3 3
EB Streymur Far 3 3
Breidablik Isl 2,8932 2,8932
Fram Reykjavik Isl 2,8932 2,8932
Fylkir Reykjavik Isl 2,8932 2,8932
IA Akranes Isl 2,8932 2,8932
IBV Vestmannaeyjar Isl 2,8932 2,8932
Keflavik Isl 2,8932 2,8932
Stjarnan FC Isl 2,8932 2,8932
Th�r Akureyri Isl 2,8932 2,8932
Valur Reykjavik Isl 2,8932 2,8932
Vikingur Reykjavik Isl 2,8932 2,8932
Iceland Isl 2,8932 2,8932
Bohemians Dublin Irl 2,77 2,77
Cork City Irl 2,77 2,77
Derry City Irl 2,77 2,77
Drogheda United Irl 2,77 2,77
Sporting Fingal Irl 2,77 2,77
Uni College Dublin Irl 2,77 2,77
Ireland Irl 2,77 2,77
CS Fola Esch Lux 2,75 2,75
Metalurgs Liepaja Lat 2,75 2,75
Shirak Gyumri Arm 2,75 2,75
V�kingur Far 2,75 2,75
Daugava Daugavpils Lat 2,5732 2,5732
Daugava Riga Lat 2,5732 2,5732
Dinaburg Daugavpils Lat 2,5732 2,5732
FK Jelgava Lat 2,5732 2,5732
FK Liepaja Lat 2,5732 2,5732
JFK Olimps Riga Lat 2,5732 2,5732
Spartaks Jurmala Lat 2,5732 2,5732
Latvia Lat 2,5732 2,5732
Hibernians FC Mlt 2,5 2,5
Lincoln Red Imps Gib 2,5 2,5
Metalurg Skopje Mac 2,5 2,5
Mladost Podgorica Mon 2,5 2,5
Mogren Budva Mon 2,5 2,5
Sant Juli� And 2,5 2,5
SK Tirana Alb 2,5 2,5
Suduva Marijampole Lit 2,5 2,5
Sutjeska Niksic Mon 2,5 2,5
FK Turnovo Mac 2,475 2,475
Makedonija Skopje Mac 2,475 2,475
Milano Kumanovo Mac 2,475 2,475
Pelister Bitola Mac 2,475 2,475
Pobeda Prilep Mac 2,475 2,475
Renova Dzepciste Mac 2,475 2,475
Sileks Kratovo Mac 2,475 2,475
Teteks Tetovo Mac 2,475 2,475
Macedonia Mac 2,475 2,475
Atlantas Klaipeda Lit 2,395 2,395
Banga Gargzdai Lit 2,395 2,395
FBK Kaunas Lit 2,395 2,395
FK Siauliai Lit 2,395 2,395
FK Tauras Lit 2,395 2,395
FK Trakai Lit 2,395 2,395
Kruoja Pakruojis Lit 2,395 2,395
Vetra Vilnius Lit 2,395 2,395
Lithuania Lit 2,395 2,395
Glentoran Nir 2,25 2,25
Jeunesse d'Esch Lux 2,25 2,25
Tre Penne Sma 2,25 2,25
Besa Kavaj� Alb 2,1482 2,1482
Dinamo Tirana Alb 2,1482 2,1482
KF La�i Alb 2,1482 2,1482
KS Flamurtari Vlor� Alb 2,1482 2,1482
Partizani Tirana Alb 2,1482 2,1482
Teuta Durr�s Alb 2,1482 2,1482
Vllaznia Shkod�r Alb 2,1482 2,1482
Albania Alb 2,1482 2,1482
B36 Torshavn Far 2 2
FC Lusitanos And 2 2
Zeta Golubovci Mon 2 2
Bokelj Kotor Mon 1,99 1,99
Celik Niksic Mon 1,99 1,99
Lovcen Cetinje Mon 1,99 1,99
OFK Petrovac Mon 1,99 1,99
Montenegro Mon 1,99 1,99
Mika Ashtarak Arm 1,75 1,75
Ulisses Yerevan Arm 1,75 1,75
Infonet Tallinn Est 1,6916 1,6916
Kalev Sillam�e Est 1,6916 1,6916
Santos Tartu Est 1,6916 1,6916
Trans Narva Est 1,6916 1,6916
TVMK Tallinn Est 1,6916 1,6916
Estonia Est 1,6916 1,6916
Alashkert FC Arm 1,64 1,64
Ararat Yerevan Arm 1,64 1,64
Banants Yerevan Arm 1,64 1,64
Gandzasar Kapan Arm 1,64 1,64
Armenia Arm 1,64 1,64
La Fiorita Sma 1,5 1,5
NSI Runavik Far 1,5 1,5
Tre Fiori Sma 1,5 1,5
UE Santa Coloma And 1,5 1,5
CS Grevenmacher Lux 1,485 1,485
Etzella Ettelbr�ck Lux 1,485 1,485
Progr�s Niederkorn Lux 1,485 1,485
Racing Union Luxembourg Lux 1,485 1,485
UN K�erjeng Lux 1,485 1,485
Luxembourg Lux 1,485 1,485
Dungannon Swifts Nir 1,4816 1,4816
Glenavon Nir 1,4816 1,4816
Lisburn Distillery Nir 1,4816 1,4816
Portadown Nir 1,4816 1,4816
Northern Ireland Nir 1,4816 1,4816
Balzan FC Mlt 1,4166 1,4166
Floriana Mlt 1,4166 1,4166
Marsaxlokk Mlt 1,4166 1,4166
Sliema Wanderers Mlt 1,4166 1,4166
Malta Mlt 1,4166 1,4166
Aberystwyth Town Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Airbus UK Broughton Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Bala Town Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Carmarthen Town Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Cefn Druids Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Connah's Quay Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Llandudno FC Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Llanelli FC Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Neath FC Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Newtown Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Port Talbot Town Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Prestatyn Town Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Rhyl FC Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Wales Wal 1,4116 1,4116
Juvenes Dogana Sma 1,25 1,25
IF Fuglafj�rdur Far 1,0266 1,0266
Faroe Islands Far 1,0266 1,0266
Europa FC Gib 1 1
Folgore Sma 1 1
Libertas Sma 0,75 0,75
Gibraltar Gib 0,5 0,5
R�ngers FC And 0,498 0,498
Andorra And 0,498 0,498
Faetano Sma 0,2823 0,2823
Murata Sma 0,2823 0,2823
San Marino Sma 0,2823 0,2823

Re: new Champions League format
Author: lukaszkamienicki Date: 16-09-2016, 10:04	Nice work, but documents revealed by Partizan_Belgrade say that country coefficient part would be taken rather from 5, not 10 seasons, so coefficients for teams not having their "own" points should be respectively lower (e.g. 12.963 for Aston Villa, 3.750 for Cracovia etc.). But, of course, it's not certain yet.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 16-09-2016, 12:23	Wasn't it that for the club coeffcient 10 years of the 20% country ranking is counted, while for the country ranking (to determine the number of clubs for each country) it stays like now with a 5 year ranking?

Author: BonnieDynamos
Date: 16-09-2016, 19:24

1. Lower league champions should be guaranteed more European football.

Option A:
All Champions League qualifier round losers should enter the next Europa League qualifying round.

Option B: All Champions League qualifying round losers prior to CLQ3 should enter a separate knockout competition, UEFA were mooting the idea of a third competition. The winner of this competition should be awarded a Champions League playoff spot in the following season.

2. Now I don't agree with this but if the ECA are intent on having traditional successful clubs being in the Champions League despite having not qualified through their domestic league, the Champions League will have to expand to include more teams.

An option here is to grant wildcard places in the NC playoff route or directly in the group stage for a pre-agreed X number of recent champions not qualified through their domestic league.

The Champions League could expand to 10 groups of 4. 10 group winners directly through to Round of 16. 10 group runners-up and 2 best placed 3rd placed teams playoff for 6 remaining Round of 16 places. While I don't agree with 3rd placed CL teams entering the EL Round of 32, the remaining 8 3rd place teams should enter the EL as per the current format.

While 8 groups of 4 is nice and neat, the suggested 10 groups of 4 gives a big incentive to win the group. If the top 2 are above the rest, there should at least be a battle and standout reward for winning the group.

Author: jos_235
Date: 21-09-2016, 15:34

I am waiting for further details, but from what I understand until now, the "performance" and "bonus" points will be not wheighted according to the time period. This is the thing I dislike more, while the idea of bonus points for previous titles maybe is not not so bad. Ten seasons is a very long period, hypothetically a team who made a good competition ten years ago but no more qualified, may have a better ranking than a team with recent qualifications.. I think they have lost an opportunity to adjust this flaw.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 30-09-2016, 04:52	Any news on this? Man, we are curious, aren't we?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 30-09-2016, 12:30	Not untill end November/begin December before a final desicion is made.

Author: ththth10
Date: 02-11-2016, 04:37

Girls and guys,

I was just thinking.

When these plans for new Champions League format emerges especially France felt 'left behind'.
Probably same for Portugal.

Any chance UEFA tries to mitigate situation for the French and the Portuguese and grant them some extra team too?

Would be something like:

5. Portugal: 3 automatic spots (team 3 upgraded to automatic spot)
6. France: 2 automatic spots and team 3 starts in NCQ4 (so only has to play one qualification round instead of two)

And then, why not,...

7, Russia: 1 automatic spot and team 2 starts in NCQ4 (so only has to play one qualification round instead of two)

This way all these subtop countries - POR/FRA/RUS - will gain something too.

OK, not very likely. But then again:

How does UEFA try to get France on board?

Author: jogggeli
Date: 04-11-2016, 18:27
Edited by: jogggeli
at: 04-11-2016, 18:45

http://www.espnfc.com/uefa-champions-league/story/2943986/champions-league-elit
e-to-receive-over-100m-euro-in-prize-money-report

I made some calculations with JPVs Numbers to get the estimated amount of Money which will be distributed by the newly planned 10-year-coefficent based on this years participants and last years distribution. I'm rather surprised though how Rummenigge and Co. were able to pull this one off. In my opinion from the Top Teams only Real, Barca and Bayern will actually profit from the new planned format of distribution, because they didn't profit as much from the TV-Pot share.

Italien, french and english top teams will get a lot less money out of the CL than before.

Example Juventus: They got around 50 Mio from the Tv-Pot which is planned to be be reduced from 40% of the total amount to 15%. Thats 32.5 Mio less and they only get 16 from the coefficient distribution.

How could any of the Top and Subtop Teams of England, France and Italy be happy with this?

///// ///// ///// ///// Coefficient ///// % Coeffi ///// Euro Coeffi Millions
Real Madrid Esp 326 308 ///// 308 ///// 8.327700419 ///// 33.31080168
FC Barcelona Esp 310 300 ///// 300 ///// 8.111396512 ///// 32.44558605
Bayern M�nchen Ger 279 272 ///// 272 ///// 7.354332838 ///// 29.41733135
Atl�tico Madrid Esp 188 188 ///// 188 ///// 5.083141814 ///// 20.33256726
FC Porto Por 183 180 ///// 180 ///// 4.866837907 ///// 19.46735163
Arsenal Eng 175 175 ///// 175 ///// 4.731647965 ///// 18.92659186
Benfica Por 176 174 ///// 174 ///// 4.704609977 ///// 18.81843991
Juventus Ita 153 150 ///// 150 ///// 4.055698256 ///// 16.22279302
Sevilla Esp 144,5 144,5 ///// 144.5 ///// 3.90698932 ///// 15.62795728
Paris Saint-Germain Fra 137 137 ///// 137 ///// 3.704204407 ///// 14.81681763
Olympique Lyon Fra 125,5 125,5 ///// 125.5 ///// 3.393267541 ///// 13.57307016
Manchester City Eng 121 121 ///// 121 ///// 3.271596593 ///// 13.08638637
Borussia Dortmund Ger 120 118 ///// 118 ///// 3.190482628 ///// 12.76193051
FC Basel Sui 115 115 ///// 115 ///// 3.109368663 ///// 12.43747465
Dinamo Kiev Ukr 110 110 ///// 110 ///// 2.974178721 ///// 11.89671488
PSV Eindhoven Ned 111 110 ///// 110 ///// 2.974178721 ///// 11.89671488
Tottenham Hotspur Eng 109 109 ///// 109 ///// 2.947140733 ///// 11.78856293
Bayer Leverkusen Ger 108 108 ///// 108 ///// 2.920102744 ///// 11.68041098
CSKA Moscow Rus 100,5 100,5 ///// 100.5 ///// 2.717317832 ///// 10.86927133
Sporting CP Lisbon Por 97 97 ///// 97 ///// 2.622684872 ///// 10.49073949
Napoli Ita 92 92 ///// 92 ///// 2.48749493 ///// 9.949979722
Celtic Sco 69,5 68,5 ///// 68.5 ///// 1.852102204 ///// 7.408408814
FC K�benhavn Den 63 63 ///// 63 ///// 1.703393268 ///// 6.81357307
Club Brugge Bel 60 60 ///// 60 ///// 1.622279302 ///// 6.48911721
Besiktas Tur 58 58 ///// 58 ///// 1.568203326 ///// 6.272813303
Dinamo Zagreb Cro 42 42 ///// 42 ///// 1.135595512 ///// 4.542382047
Leicester City Eng 32,1123 32,1123 ///// 32 ///// 0.865215628 ///// 3.460862512
AS Monaco Fra 32 32 ///// 32 ///// 0.865215628 ///// 3.460862512
Borussia M�nchengladbach Ger 32 32 ///// 32 ///// 0.865215628 ///// 3.460862512
Legia Warsaw Pol 28,5 28,5 ///// 28.5 ///// 0.770582669 ///// 3.082330675
Ludogorets Razgrad Bul 28 28 ///// 28 ///// 0.757063674 ///// 3.028254698
FK Rostov Rus 19,9353 19,9353 ///// 20 ///// 0.540759767 ///// 2.16303907

Author: ththth10
Date: 07-11-2016, 05:50
Edited by: ththth10
at: 07-11-2016, 05:51

BonnieDynamos,

Your proposal of 10 groups of 4 teams is interesting. I thought about similar stuff: to have one additional round for teams who end at second place in group.

I would suggest however that losers of this extra round will go to Europa Leauge too.

And these extra places should be used to get more CHAMPIONS in the Champions League. Let say: 5 or 6. So hello Denmark, Sweden, Austria, Scotland!
And then 2 or 3 extra places for second/third teams from countries like France, Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine, Russia...

What do others think?

And yes: winning the group will be pretty important for these top teams!

EDIT:

Please also respond to my idea posted at:

Author: ththth10
Date: 02-11-2016, 04:37

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 20-11-2016, 20:11	It is more or less late November now... Any more (inside) information about this?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: jkjkjk Date: 28-11-2016, 22:42	The UEFA schedule shows that the club competition committee is meeting today. Maybe they will recommend what the format should be, and release some or all of it to the public. I assume we will have to wait until the executive committee meets on 9 December to know the final decision.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: jkjkjk Date: 02-12-2016, 22:24	We should know in a week. http://www.uefa.org/mediaservices/mediareleases/newsid=2426941.html I still would like to know if anything will change with European placement of Armenian teams since they only have 6 clubs.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 07-12-2016, 21:20	See UEFA could bring Champions League reform to a halt. Just rumours, or could it be true?

Author: Friesland
Date: 08-12-2016, 01:17

The EXCO, who meet on Friday, will have the final say. We can only hope they'll put an end to this disastrous plan that came out of the Club Competitions Committee.

The main reason against a "European Super League" is because of its exclusiveness, not because UEFA wouldn't run it. With the proposed access list (GS spots) the UEFA does just that. What they're basically saying is "we have to create our version of a European Super League to prevent other from creating it." Every time they change their access lists the UEFA Club Competition look more and more like what an "ESL" would look like.

They only look to Spain, Germany, England en Italy and the teams from the other countries are there just to fill the field and must first pass a handful of qualification round during preparation season, will the teams from the "big countries" only enter when the leagues have already started.

It's becoming harder and harder to see why an ESL would be any worse than the access lists UEFA uses. In fact we may have already passed to point where a league competition with promotion and relegation would be preferable over the current format. That's obviously a lot better than a closed ESL, but I think most people prefer a cup system rather than a league system. I believe you coined a similar idea on Forum 2.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Judio1999 Date: 08-12-2016, 11:38	In the current format We have ended up with a CL last 16 Only the Top 6 Countries are still in

Author: ransborg
Date: 08-12-2016, 12:34

It would be very difficult to make a format that is fair from a sportive perspective and would allow significant participation in round of 16 for countries outside the top 6-7 (unless of course you roll it all the way back to max 2 teams per country).
The way international football works, teams from the major leagues are just superior.
And even with that, teams like Copenhagen and Besiktas had a chance to progress until the last matchday of the group stage.

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 09-12-2016, 17:18

Most important conclusions:

� Access for clubs from all associations is maintained, everyone has a chance in both competitions.

� More associations than in the past represented across both group stages (from 22 to 26).

� Priority to champions: all domestic champions starting in the UCL champions path guaranteed at least 4 games (ie. 2 rounds) and more champions to qualify for the UEL group stage.

� Direct access to the UEL is maintained for all clubs participating in the UCL League path.

� Not just revenue increase overall but extra allocation of �50m and �10m for UEL and solidarity respectively.

� Qualification Rounds (as of Q1) to start one week later and UEFA to work out a new draw concept in order to facilitate clubs� travel arrangements.

� Individual club performances better rewarded in the sporting coefficient ranking which will no longer include association points

Re: new Champions League format
Author: lukaszkamienicki Date: 09-12-2016, 18:35	Bonus title points will not be added to club coefficients for seeding (past 5 seasons performance), but only for financial distribution (past 10 seasons). The will be no wild cards, only last league season performance will apply.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 09-12-2016, 19:50	I read the access list is confirmed, but anybody know how it exactly is? Do countries ranked 11-15 still get 5 teams in Europe like now?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 09-12-2016, 19:55	Ceferin told in the press conference that all countries keep the same total number of teams. I guess he meant all positions in the ranking retain the same total number of teams.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-12-2016, 20:10	Which will probably imply an additional qualifying round.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 09-12-2016, 20:18	NON CHAMPIONS (LEAGUE) PATH, definitly chosen "Option 2" (my post at: 07-09-2016, 17:26): NCQ2: 6 starters (runner up 10-15) NCQ3: 5 starters (3rd 5, 3rd 6, runner up 7-9) + 3 winners from NCQ2 = 8 teams NCQ4 (play off): 4 winners from NCQ3

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 09-12-2016, 20:25

For the calculation of the coefficients the biggest change is that a 5-year club ranking will be used for seeding and a 10-year club ranking (including historic titles) will be used as a factor in the financial distribution. Thus from 2018 on this website will publish two different club rankings, one based on a 5-year period and one based on a 10-year period.

Since the association part (the 20%) only serves a minimum, the webpages with the yearly club coefficients will also change, and become some kind of yearly club points pages. It makes no sense anymore to add the yearly association part.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: nightfire Date: 09-12-2016, 20:32	Excuse my ignorance but what is the financial distribution? "10-year club ranking (including historic titles) will be used as a factor in the financial distribution"

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 09-12-2016, 20:33
Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade
at: 09-12-2016, 20:43

UEFA EUROPA LEAGUE 2018-2021:
(GS still remains with 48 teams)

27 teams directly in GS
- CW and N5 countries 1-4 (8 teams)
- CW and N4 country 5 (2 teams)
- CW countries 6-12 (7 teams)
- 4 losers Champions play offs (4 teams)
- 4 losers League Path NCQ3 (4 teams)
- 2 losers League Path play offs (2 teams)

8 Champions in GS through separate qualifications (3 rounds)
- Q2 play 20 teams (3 losers preliminary round Champions Path and 17 losers Q1 Champions Path)
- Q3 play 10 teams (10 losers Q2 Champions Path)
- PO play 6 teams (6 losers Q3 Champions Path)

13 teams in GS through qualifications (4 rounds and preliminary round)
(3 losers in NCQ2 League Path play from Q3)

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-12-2016, 20:34 Edited by: bert.kassies at: 09-12-2016, 20:42	nightfire said Excuse my ignorance but what is the financial distribution? "10-year club ranking (including historic titles) will be used as a factor in the financial distribution" How much money clubs get from UEFA for playing in CL and/or EL.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-12-2016, 20:38	Again very good info, Partizan

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 09-12-2016, 21:22	Qualification Rounds (as of Q1) to start one week later and UEFA to work out a new draw concept in order to facilitate clubs� travel arrangements. This sounds like the return of the regional groups in qualifying rounds.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: vicenzo Date: 09-12-2016, 21:31	So despite what the President of Lyon said (Jean-Michel Aulas), the 3rd of frecnh league will have to succeed in 2 rounds and not only one, before going to the group stage

Re: new Champions League format
Author: vicenzo Date: 09-12-2016, 21:40	no official document for the moment to imagine the access list for 2018/2019 i guess? And you confirm that it will be at the end of this season 2016/2017 that we will know the ranking of countries used to define the access list for 2018/2019?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 09-12-2016, 22:07	* FRANCE: France should not accept this. Italy and France are in the same 'category': countries 4-6.Why Italy gets TWO extra Champions League spot? While France's number 3 team must play an additional qualification round? Plan is totally unacceptable!

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 09-12-2016, 22:09 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 09-12-2016, 22:09	@ vicenzo: You have not to imagine anything, believe me or not. I have access list, as a part of internal documentation. It is not official yet, in meaning of publication, but it is "through". Yes, at the end of season 2016/17 we will know the final country ranking, used to define access list for season 2018/19. It's always been that way.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-12-2016, 22:10	vicenzo, nobody can confirm without official statement from UEFA. But it is the normal procedure to use the ranking 2017 for the 2018/19 season of European football. It will be difficult to change that because it would be unknown in the National Leagues of 2017/18 what places would give right to European football in the next season.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-12-2016, 22:12	Partizan, can you publish the format of the Europa league qualifying rounds? Or do I ask too much today ...

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 09-12-2016, 22:12	So both losers from NCQ3 and 4 go to Europa League directly? But losers of NCQ2 (the new, extra round) must play qualification round(s) for Europa League Group Stage? If so: one or two rounds?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 09-12-2016, 22:17	What if Title Holder spots for Champions League and Europa League are NOT used? One or two extra GS spots for country 11 and 12? Or extra spots for NCQ route? So maybe less qualification rounds for at least some teams in NCQ. I hope the last option

Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 09-12-2016, 22:33

I hope that the fact that qualifying rounds will start one week later than before mean that they'll abolish the one week off between Q3 and the play-off rounds. That has been the most boring week of the summer, in which I go through some serious withdrawal after 6 consecutive weeks of qualifying round excitement.

Though, I hope this doesn't mean that the draw for the play-off round will be held before Q3 is over, meaning that there'll be very little change in the seeding lists, as the majority of surprises happen in Q3...

Author: shizzle787
Date: 09-12-2016, 22:52

I am very excited that UEFA got rid of the 20% country coefficient being added to the club coefficient. It gave an unfair advantage to clubs from bigger countries based off of the league they are in (they already get a deserved advantage of starting later in the competitions).
Also, when is it likely that UEFA will post the access lists for both competitions?
And, are the runners up of leagues 13-15 still in the UCL or have they be shelved to the EL. I hope it is the former as they are surplus to requirements?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: shizzle787 Date: 09-12-2016, 22:54	One more thing, are the champions of the four smallest leagues really going to have to go through SIX rounds of qualifying?

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 09-12-2016, 22:57

Given the data from Partizan there of course many options to fill the Europa league qualifying rounds. But suppose, you want to maintain the current number of direct placed clubs in those rounds (23x Q3 and 16x Q2) then the following format results:

26 teams in EL-Q4: all 26 from EL-Q3,
52 teams in EL-Q3: 3 from CL-Q2, 23 direct places, and 26 from EL-Q2
52 teams in EL-Q2: 16 direct places, and 36 from EL-Q1
72 teams in EL-Q1: 16 direct places, and 56 from EL-PR.

Which would imply that clubs from countries below rank 37 or so need to play preliminary rounds, and they would need to start earlier then the current Q1.

This is only an example to show the consequences of certain choices.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 09-12-2016, 23:04	Bert, As I posted before... Non Champions path will collide with national team tournaments... Seems RU of countries like Netherlands or Switzerland must start playing while national teams might be still in European Cup or World Cup....

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 09-12-2016, 23:16

Yes, maybe. Though I think it will not that bad. But playing in the preliminaries is not something many countries with a national league with over 25-30 matches or so, will like. So, there will be a pressure to put more teams of higher ranked countries in earlier rounds. Many are already used to start in Q2, so if the schedule is shifted by a week, the start of the new Q1 will be only one week before the start of Q2 now.

And yes, they also won't like FIFA expanding their tournaments, lol.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 09-12-2016, 23:18	@ththth10 Not it won't. Qualifying rounds will start one week later than before, which means that the first leg of Q2 will be played around 20 July. World Cups and EUROs are always finished by then.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: shizzle787 Date: 09-12-2016, 23:18	@bert Nice site btw, I use as it's more accurate than wikipedia or UEFA. However, is FIFA likely to vote on a 48-team world cup, or are they going be rational and stay at 32?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: shizzle787 Date: 09-12-2016, 23:51	One last question: Will Italy only get 2 spots in the Europa League seeing as it gained a spot in the Champions League or will it get 3 like almost everybody else.

Author: marnac
Date: 10-12-2016, 06:18

I see two problems with Partizan's access list:

1) Let's count the participants in UCL Group Stage:

- 16 starters (1-4)
- 4 starters (5-6)
- 6 starters (7-12)
- 4 starters Champions Path
- 2 starters non Champions Path

Total 32. What happens with the winner of UCL and UEL?

2) Number of associations playing Champions Path.

- preliminary: 6
- Q1: 34 (31 teams enter this stage)
- Q2: 20 (3)
- Q3: 12 (2)
- PO: 8 (2)

6+31+3+2+2=44. So, 44 associations would play Champions Path. Rank 13-54 (without Liechtenstein) are 41 associations.
Is it possible, that champions 11 and 12 don't get direct access to UCL Group stage (and have to play Champions Path) and Kosovo is mentioned to participate in future? It would solve the problem with UCL and UEL winner.

(Please excuse possible mistakes in english)

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 10-12-2016, 09:38 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 10-12-2016, 09:40	Champions of 11 and 12 don't start in the GS anymore, so that is where you have the 2 spots for the CL-TH and EL-TH. And indeed you missed Kosovo. They are also a UEFA-member now and will send clubs in CL and EL (if they get a license, but I assume with a 1-year preparation period that should not be a problem any more like this season, when they only had a 1 month preparation period).

Re: new Champions League format
Author: marnac Date: 10-12-2016, 09:52 Edited by: marnac at: 10-12-2016, 09:56	That would make sense. Can you prove this statement? (Edit: I mean the champions of 11 and 12)

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 10-12-2016, 10:16	Partizan, If you cannot post the full Europa league access list, could you at least post how many teams start in each of the qualifying/preliminary rounds, like you did for the Champions league?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: marnac Date: 10-12-2016, 10:48 Edited by: marnac at: 10-12-2016, 10:52	Did the UEFA announce when they will publish the access lists?

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 10-12-2016, 11:09

@ Author: shizzle787
Date: 09-12-2016, 22:54

Yes, 6 rounds (2 preliminary rounds + 4 main rounds)

-----------------------

@ Author: shizzle787
Date: 09-12-2016, 23:51

2 spots in UEL GS

------------------------

@ Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 10-12-2016, 10:16

PR: 16 teams
Q1: 86 teams
Q2: 27 teams
Q3: 12 teams + 3 teams League Path Q2 (UCL quali)= 15 teams
PO: 0
-------------------------

@ Author: marnac
Date: 10-12-2016, 10:48
Edited by: marnac
at: 10-12-2016, 10:52

March 2017

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 10-12-2016, 11:17	Another one important information, concerning vacancy replacement for UCL and UEL title-holders: - If UCL TH qualifies for UCL GS via league, then Champion of country 11 goes to UCL GS - If UEL TH qualifies for UCL GS via league (NEW!), then N3 of country 5 goes to UCL GS

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-12-2016, 12:34	Thanks again, Partizan. 12 teams starting in Europa League Q3, does that mean that the cup winner of the country at rank 13 starts in Q3, and cup winners from countries below rank 13 start in Q2 or before?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 10-12-2016, 13:02 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 10-12-2016, 13:04	Starters UEL Q3: Losers UCL Q2 League Path = 3 teams N4 country 6 = 1 team N3 countries 7-12 = 6 teams CW countries 13-17 = 5 teams

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 10-12-2016, 13:13
Edited by: bert.kassies
at: 10-12-2016, 13:18

Thanks Partizan. But now I don't understand in which qualifying round N6 of country 1-3 and N5 of country 5 will start. Because they were not included in GS and there is no space in Q4.

Can you please explain that a bit (if possible)?

Edit: or are they pushed back to Q2? That would explain it. I did not even think it would be possible to push a mighty Premier League team back to Q2 (playing July 10 or so), lol.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-12-2016, 14:31	Based on the discussions above I've made a preliminary access list 2018/19. See Access List 2018/19

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 10-12-2016, 15:01	@ Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-12-2016, 13:13 Edited by: bert.kassies at: 10-12-2016, 13:18 N6 from countries 1-4 and N5 from countries 5-6 start in Q2.

Author: amenina
Date: 10-12-2016, 16:04
Edited by: amenina
at: 10-12-2016, 16:26

Partizan_Belgrade: I have two questions:

1. What is the format of the new "preliminary round" in both CL and EL? As I see that in CL only one of the four teams qualify to the next round, is it right for me to assume that, they will be played in groups of four with one of the teams hosting (similar to the qualifying round of the UEFA Women's Champions League), or is it still two-legged knockout matches?

2. How many EL teams will associations 52-55 get? Somebody asks this question in another topic, so I am repeating it here:
Are little 4 gaining EL spots.

Thanks for all the information you provide!

Author: Partizan_Belgrade
Date: 10-12-2016, 16:35

1.
There are TWO preliminary rounds in UCL Quali. In the first preliminary round you have 2 pairings (two games, home and away) and the winners play in the second round (again home and away) for one spot in Q1.

2.
Preliminary qualification round UEL:
- Associations 52-54 get 2 spots (CW, RU)
- Association 55 get 1 spot (CW)
In this preliminary round are also teams from associations 48-51.
At all 16 teams.
8 winners go to Q1.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-12-2016, 16:54	Partizan, can you confirm that Italy (at rank 4) gets an extra team? Like you said N6 from rank 1-4 in Q2?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 10-12-2016, 17:03 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 10-12-2016, 17:08	Yes, according to internal documentation. It is absolutely no difference between Italy and associations 1-3, neither in UCL- nor in UEL-access list!

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 10-12-2016, 17:32	So CH 11 will go into CL-GS when CL-winner is already qualified. I assume that CH 13, 15 and 18 will then all start 1 round later. What will happen to the 4 teams in "Q0". Will they only have to play 1 round with both winners qualifying for Q1?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-12-2016, 17:46	Fora, just look back 3 replies upwards. Partizan already answered that. These is just 1 spot in Q 1 for PR clubs.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-12-2016, 17:49	Thuis forum sucks when typing from smartphone with Dutch autocorrect

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 10-12-2016, 18:05

@Bert

When the champions of 11, 13, 15 and 18 move up 1 round, then there will be a gap in Q1. So room for an extra club from the "bottom 4".

You can fill that gap by reducing "Q0" to only 1 round, with both winners getting into Q1.
Another way is to have CH 52 directly in Q1, with still 2 rounds in "Q0", first CH 54 vs.CH 55 and then winner of that vs. CH 53.

First option seems better since you reduce "Q0" by 2 matchdays.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: shizzle787 Date: 10-12-2016, 18:10	So can we confirm that the last team in the EL for the top six leagues now starts in Q2 instead of Q3, meaning they will have to play an extra round?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: ththth10 Date: 10-12-2016, 18:39	Partizan, So Italy is upgraded: gainig to direct spots... while France (on SAME 'level'!) does not and its number 3 must play an additional round... Why should French clubs accept this?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-12-2016, 18:46	@Forza-AZ: Ah, I see. Such kind of info isn't usually in the access list or regulations. There is some vague description like "the list is rebalanced accordingly and priority is given to champions or cup winners". It might take years before we know such details.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-12-2016, 18:53	ththth10 said: "Why should French clubs accept this?" It is already decided yesterday. @shizzle787 We have only one source: Partizan_Belgrado in this forum. So, there isn't any real 2nd source at this moment. But yes, that is what I understood from Partizan. The last Europa League club of countries at rank 1-12 starts in Q2.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-12-2016, 19:30	Partizan, I hope you don't mind that I am bothering you again. But can you answer one more question please? Am I correct to assume that the cup winners from countries at rank 18-27 start in Q2? And that N4 of country at rank 13 starts in Q1? Or did UEFA made another choice for those teams?

Author: baciccia
Date: 10-12-2016, 19:30
Edited by: baciccia
at: 10-12-2016, 19:33

@ththth10 said before:
"France should not accept this.
Italy and France are in the same 'category': countries 4-6
So Italy is upgraded: gainig to direct spots... while France (on SAME 'level'!) does not and its number 3 must play an additional round..."

What you call "category" is totally arbitrary. In the past years UEFA decided to draw the line between 3rd and 4th country, now they moved it between 4th and 5th and that's, again, arbitrary. But looking at country ranking (as of today)...

1 Spain 98.284
2 Germany 76.498
3 England 72.391
4 Italy 69.998
5 France 52.999
6 Portugal 48.999
7 Russia 48.732
8 Ukraine 42.233

Spain is in a league of its own (they won EVERYTHING in the last three years), then Germany, England and Italy are quite close one to another, then come the others. So, as of today, there's a big gap between 4th and 5th, which may explain UEFA's decision, but I'm only guessing. Maybe Spain should not accept this, being considered equal to Germany, England and Italy!

Author: erdinc
Date: 10-12-2016, 20:03
Edited by: erdinc
at: 10-12-2016, 20:17

Is there any other info on the %20 of country coefficients?

Originally, we read that it will be used only if the club coefficient is less than %20.
UEFA Media News tells that the %20 is to be abolished. No mentioning of any other condition.
I had read on Daily Mirror telling that clubs like Leicester city will not get the benefit of %20 any more and will not be seeded.

Any info in internal document?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: nightfire Date: 10-12-2016, 20:50	So using this season as an example, Leicester City would have been in the CL Pot 1 as English champions but had a co-efficient of 0.00 due to no matches played in Europe for the last 5 seasons - is that correct?

Author: amenina
Date: 10-12-2016, 20:59

@ththth10: First of all, this is a long reply....

Now obviously I don't know what French clubs actually think about this new format, but I can think of a few reasons why France may actually benefit from the new format:

1. The only significant change for France, which is currently ranked 5th, is that France 3rd enter Q3 instead of PO. But remember, France used to be ranked 6th and so France 3rd was entering Q3 for a while, so they are used to it.

Actually in the past 5 seasons, France 3rd only successfully reached GS twice, and in 2 of the 3 seasons that they failed, they were knocked out by a Spanish team, since France 3rd were unseeded in the PO draw. Now with the teams from associations 1-4 no longer involved in PO, France 3rd may have a better chance of reaching GS through PO.

2. As Partizan pointed out, if the EL TH goes directly to CL GS through league, the place will be passed down to the 3rd placed team of association 5. So France 3rd will even get a free pass to GS once in while.

3. In the previous format, France need to overtake 2 associations and jump from 5th to 3rd to gain a CL spot. Now in the new format, they only need to overtake 1 association and jump form 5th to 4th to gain a CL spot (and 2 full GS spot).

Now as @baciccia points out, the gap between Italy and France is now almost 17 points, which is very big. But this is mostly due to the three seasons 2012/13-2014/15, including 2014/15 where Italy beat France by more than 8 points. If you only look at the past 1.5 seasons, Italy and France are neck-and-neck, with France only trailing Italy by less than 0.6 points: UEFA Country Ranking 2020

So it is not totally inconceivable for France to challenge Italy for the 4th spot in the future, especially if the PSG money succeeds in bringing in a CL title, the likes of Monaco and Lyon reach CL QF or even SF, and EL teams such as Nice and Saint-Etienne perform well. Remember that Portugal were actually quite close to overtaking Italy for the 4th spot (meaningless at that time) a few seasons ago before their results fall off again. Now of course once Italy gains 4 GS places in 2018/19, they will get some built-in advantage, for example, 2 extra teams in GS means 8 bonus points, which is 1.14 points per season in terms of coefficients.

Now a caveat, the earliest season that France is likely to overtake Italy is the 2020 rankings, which determines places in the 2021-22 season, and this is not covered by the 3-year window that UEFA have just made a decision. And who knows what kind of "ridiculous" changes UEFA will come up with by then!

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 10-12-2016, 20:59

nightfire said: "So using this season as an example, Leicester City would have been in the CL Pot 1 as English champions but had a co-efficient of 0.00 due to no matches played in Europe for the last 5 seasons - is that correct?"

I don't think UEFA will do that. The 20% country ranking as a minimum will still be used. The fact that it is not mentioned in this news article must be due the many items that need to be addressed. I think it was considered a detail not to be included in the press article. But I have no confirmation for this point of view.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 10-12-2016, 23:11	Teams starting with 0.000 will also be unfair to other teams, since then a team working on a good coefficient for 5 years to get seeded can suddenly draw a for instance Spanish or German team with 0.000 coefficient. So I also assume the minimum coefficient will be taken to prevent this kind of mismatches in seeding.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: marnac Date: 11-12-2016, 00:32 Edited by: marnac at: 11-12-2016, 01:12	Thanks to Partizan_Belgrade and bert.kassies. I have one last question: What happens, if UCL TH and UEL TH both qualify for UCL GS via League? Will there be a new spot for the runner up of country 16 (or even 4th of country 5) or will countries 10 and 11 start in NCQ3?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: amirbachar Date: 11-12-2016, 01:12	I would guess that if the CL TH is not used, then the champion of Country 11 go directly to the CL GS (confirmed by Partizan_Belgrade), and the champions of countries 18-25 go directly to CL Q2. That would mean less collision with national team for teams that tend to send players to the national teams (and more similar to the current access list for those countries).

Re: new Champions League format
Author: marnac Date: 11-12-2016, 01:16 Edited by: marnac at: 11-12-2016, 01:24	I mean if both (UCL TH and UEL TH) qualify for UCL GS via League. Then the non Champions Path has to be balanced. Edit: even, if only UEL TH qualifies for UCL GS via League.

Author: anelz
Date: 11-12-2016, 01:49

Partizan did said now that if CL TH qualifies for CL GS through its national league that the champion of country 11 will be promoted directly to CL GS but I'm leaning more to the belief that both champions of 11 and 12 will be promoted to CL GS and that way no changes will have to be done to CL qualifications in the champions path (instead of 8 clubs in PO there will be 6 with 3 qualifying further instead of 4). What would happen if also the EL TH qualifies directly to CL GS is something I didn't think about.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 11-12-2016, 09:17
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 11-12-2016, 09:19

Partizan already said that if EL-TH spot isn't used that N3 of country 5 will start directly in CL-GS.

And to balance the access list usually UEFA move up teams from earlier rounds. And never give extra spots to teams that wouldn't qualify otherwise. So no spots for N2 of country 16 anyway.

Most likely it would be like this:
-CL-TH not used:
CH 11 --> CL-GS
CH 13 --> CL-Q4
CH 15 --> CL-Q3
CH 18 --> CL-Q2
And then 2 out of the bottom 4 in CL-Q1 instead of only 1.
That would leave 1 less team dropping from CL-Q0 to EL-Q2, so most likely 1 of the 19 teams in EL-Q2-Ch would get a bye in that round.

-EL-TH not used:
N3 5 --> CL-GS
N2 10-11 --> CL-Q3
That would leave 1 less team dropping from CL-Q2 to EL-Q3, so some Cupwinners would also move up 1 round in EL.

All of this is not confirmed (and won't be by UEFA), but is in line with UEFA-procedures of recent years.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 11-12-2016, 13:27 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 11-12-2016, 15:56	Bravo & bravissimo go to Alkmaar! Forza-AZ explained at all.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 11-12-2016, 14:49	Hi Partizan, did you see my questions at 10-12-2016, 19:30?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: marnac Date: 11-12-2016, 20:02	My question was only how the non Champions Path will be balanced in this case. Now everything is clear. Thanks also to Forza-AZ.

Author: ththth10
Date: 13-12-2016, 00:54

baciccia,

> What you call "category" is totally arbitrary.
> In the past years UEFA decided to draw the line between
> 3rd and 4th country, now they moved it between 4th and 5th
> and that's, again, arbitrary.

Of course almost all (all?) categories are arbitrary. But even then, or more: espcially then, ... why make changes that benefit the biggest clubs from the biggest countries.

Aribtrary? Yes, so why not limit number of clubs per country to two (apart from CL TH and EL TH of course)?
Why not have more champions from smaller countries directly in Group Stage?

Arbitraty? Yes! So use this oppurtunity to get LESS teams for the bigger countries. Not more!

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 13-12-2016, 10:23	@ Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-12-2016, 19:30 ----------------------- No, only CW from countries 18-24 start in Q2. No, N3 UND N4 from countries 13-15 start in Q2.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 13-12-2016, 11:50	Thanks again, Partizan.

Author: vicenzo
Date: 13-12-2016, 17:29

Hi,
just to be sure about something: 3 little questions:

1/The 4th Italian/English/German/Spanish team which will be directly qualified for GS for LDC 2018/2019 will be the 4th of season 2017/2018, right?

2/ And the 3rd of 5th Country will be directly qualified for GS for LDC 2018/2019 if winner of EL 2017/2018 is directly qualified through his own league, right?

3/ the rank for countries for 2018/2019 is the rank of this current season 2016/2017? you already confirmed it to me, I ask just to be complete

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 13-12-2016, 17:39 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 13-12-2016, 17:39	Vicenzo, 1) Yes 2) Yes 3) Yes

Author: holidaysong
Date: 13-12-2016, 22:04

As a fan of a club from one of the lower ranked countries (I'm Irish), I am still unsure what to make of these changes.

Obviously the changes to the UCL format will make it harder for my team to get to the promised land of the UCL group stages with an extra qualifying round, as well as the reduction from 5 to 4 national champions going through this route.

However, the sound of the UEL champions route does seem promising as a good way of keeping national champions involved in European competition for longer and providing a more viable route to the group stages.

My question would be am I being too optimistic here? Will the UEL QR2/QR3/Playoff rounds for the new champions route actually be that much easier than the current UEL "open" route.

I'm thinking that looking at the clubs currently dropping out of the UCL champions route would be the best gauge of the comparison here, but am I being too simplistic here or will the standard of clubs in the champions route now also get better? I believe that it is only 2 additional champions (#11 and #12) that now also join this route so for me it does look easier. Is my interpretation correct here though?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 13-12-2016, 23:19
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 13-12-2016, 23:27

Current situation for champions:
17 in CL-GS (12 direct + 5 via qualifying)
5 in EL-GS (dropouts of CL-Q4)

So total 22.

10 more in EL-Q4 with open draw

Future situation for champions:
14 in CL-GS (10 direct + 4 via qualifying)
4 in EL-GS (dropouts of CL-Q4)

So total 18.

Instead of the open draw in which unseeded CL-Q3 dropout can draw seeded teams from higher ranked countries, these same teams can draw the 4 champions of countries ranked around 19-22.
Seems not that much difference in chances to qualify for the EL-GS.

You would have to analyse how much champions get to EL-GS in the open draw, so you can see if that is more then the fixed number in the future.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 13-12-2016, 23:26 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 13-12-2016, 23:27	double post

Re: new Champions League format
Author: holidaysong Date: 14-12-2016, 20:16	Hi Forza Thanks for the insights there. So really it's not that much easier at all. [Best of luck to AZ in the UEL last 32 by the way - I had a great time over in Alkmaar in September.>

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 14-12-2016, 23:33	Thanks holidaysong. Amazing that AZ still got to the next round after just 1 point in 3 matches. I also had a nice time in Dublin 3 weeks ago. Trip to Lyon is already booked, so hope to have another nice trip in February.

Author: cochise
Date: 15-12-2016, 02:31

The fact that the losers from CLQ 1 and 2 will go to ELQ in the new system may make it seem like there is more chance for the smaller champions. In reality as AZ shows the new fixed 26 group stage slots for champions is probably not much change from the old 22 plus whatever of the 10 CLQ3 drop outs made it through.
It would be interesting to see analysis on how many of the historical CLQ3 drop outs qualified for EL groups

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 15-12-2016, 08:46	In the new format 12 of the champions from countries at rank 11 or below are sure to play in the Europa League group stage. That is a big change.

Author: lukaszkamienicki
Date: 15-12-2016, 11:23
Edited by: lukaszkamienicki
at: 15-12-2016, 11:31

@cochise
Do you mean Champions Route third qualifying round dropouts? Here you are.

Under the current format, 33 out of 70 CL-CHQ3 losers have qualified for Europa League group stage.

2009�10: 4 → BATE, Dinamo Zagreb, Partizan, Slavia Praha
2010�11: 4 → BATE, Debrecen, Dinamo Zagreb, Lech Poznań
2011�12: 3 → Maribor, Shamrock Rovers, Slovan Bratislava
2012�13: 3 → Molde, Neftchi Baku, Partizan
2013�14: 4 → APOEL, Elfsborg, Maccabi Tel-Aviv, Sheriff Tiraspol
2014�15: 6 → Dinamo Zagreb, HJK, Legia Warsaw, Qarabağ Ağdam, Partizan, Sparta Praha
2015�16: 5 → Lech Poznań, Midtjylland, Molde, Qarabağ Ağdam, Viktoria Plzeň
2016�17: 4 → Astana, Astra Giurgiu, Olympiakos, Qarabağ Ağdam

Now, there are 5 EL-GS spots for CL-CHQ4 dropouts and (theoretically) 10 spots available for CL-CHQ3 dropouts.
In the new format, there will be 8 EL-GS spots for champions through EL-Q4 and 4 spots for CL-CHQ4 dropouts, all guaranteed.

So losing champions from CL qualifying phase will have rather easier way to reach EL group stage than it is now.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 15-12-2016, 12:30 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 15-12-2016, 12:34	Don't forget that 2 less champions get a spot in the CL-GS, so champions of 11-12 also enter the fight for these 12 EL-GS spots. So currently you have 17 guarenteed champions in GS (12 in CL, 5 in EL) with average 4,125 that qualify via EL-Q4, so total 21,125. In the new system there are 22 fixed champions in the GS (10 in CL, 12 in EL). So the difference is only less then 1 on average.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: lukaszkamienicki Date: 15-12-2016, 13:23 Edited by: lukaszkamienicki at: 15-12-2016, 18:31	In a word: harder task for champions to qualify for CL, easier task to qualify for EL. I think that Champions Route in EL qualifying phase is better than the current format for clubs with little hope in CL, but with bigger chances to reach EL group stage, where they can raise their coefficients.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: cochise Date: 15-12-2016, 23:30	@ lukaszkamienicki yes, thanks for that. @ ForzaAZ you need to include the losers from CLQ4 going to EL group stage, currently 5 becoming 4 in the new system. That makes the current total 26.125 on average and the new system 26 exactly.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 16-12-2016, 09:37	@cochise These were already included, so it is 21 vs. 21,125 in total.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: kenzel Date: 16-12-2016, 15:11 Edited by: kenzel at: 16-12-2016, 15:12	It is my first message. I generally follow posts. Big thanks for all useful informations : ) I tried on Excel but it is not easy for me. Do you have any simulation of this year with the new access list? I mean like Bert's Seedings. He assumes seeded teams qualified. I would like to see comparison of the formats. Thank you.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: lukaszkamienicki Date: 16-12-2016, 19:27 Edited by: lukaszkamienicki at: 16-12-2016, 20:07	@kenzel Are you talking about full simulation of 2016�17 CL and EL with using new coefficient rules and new access list, as adopted by UEFA Executive Committee, or only about recalculated coeficients in existing CL and EL format?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Ilias Date: 18-12-2016, 12:28	@ForzaAZ You forgot the winners of CLQ4. 5 with current system, 4 with the new system. So currently you have 17+5 guarenteed champions in GS (12+5 in CL, 5 in EL) with average 4,125 that qualify via EL-Q4, so total 26,125. In the new system there are 26 fixed champions in the GS (10+4 in CL, 12 in EL).

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 18-12-2016, 17:08	@Ilias You're right there. I forgot these winners. So difference is even less then I posted.

Author: SteffenM
Date: 19-12-2016, 00:02
Edited by: SteffenM
at: 19-12-2016, 12:42

I saw there was asked for a simulation of qualifying.

Based on the information and guidance of Partizan_Belgrade, bert.kassies and Forza-AZ
I took the qualifying for this season (as it looks right now), from
m-p3's excel sheet in Russian and mixed this with a little google translate etc.

So here you go.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

*note
- The TH's-spots are set unused
- It's with country bonus, but I guess it more or less the same for everyone
- This is just a simulation for this seasons coeffecient and qualifying, how it would look like with the new format
- Sorry if there are mistakes

Author: ththth10
Date: 19-12-2016, 04:36
Edited by: ththth10
at: 19-12-2016, 04:38

*** Strange things happening at place 15? ***

If this was discussed before: sorry.

I thought about this:

Take a look at:
https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/AccessList2018.html

Austria has spot 15. So just assume this will be Austria then...

Austrian CH will start in CHQ2.
Assume they will lose. Then Champion of Austria will go to LCQ3. So it will have to play two more rounds to reach EL GS.

But then take a look at Austria's RU (N2).
It will start NCQ2 (so at the same 'level' as Champion).
Then if it wins it will go to NCQ3 of course. But then if it loses there it will go straight to EL GS. So N2 can have a 'briefer' route to EL GS.

OK, UEFA rules (growing more complicated by the year).
But isn't this at least a littelbit against the 'spirit' of the European tournaments?

BTW: As far as I can see this is unique to spot 15. Is it?

And one more general remark:

My friends (well, the ones that like European Football) have lost track of UEFA qualification years and years ago.

Isn't it time to get a more simple system? Instead of creating more rounds, more special routes, and so on?

---

EDIT: I only added the bold

Author: lukaszkamienicki
Date: 19-12-2016, 11:03

@SteffenM
That sounds interesting, but your link doesn't work � please use forum code (listed here).

@ththth10
"UEFA logic" (they should register it as a trademark). For me, it's absolutely sensless that champions losing in CL-Q3 are not guaranteed EL-GS, while runners-up are! Austrian example is curious, but also Dutch and Greek runners-up will have easier way to qualify for EL-GS than champions.

Author: SteffenM
Date: 19-12-2016, 12:42

Maybe not easier, at least not necessarily easier.
But nonetheless shorter. I think it is wrong to.

But I think for all countries joining the NCQ3 (5-15) it's weird, that they are skipping Q4 to get in EL GS.

Evil tounges would say it's better to loose in NCQ3 then NCQ4, to save 2 MD's

Ok, I will try again.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u_-1nS5UuX2AscK42Qp723uzHG97ec9zRm8RIXM
7W-g/edit?usp=sharing

Re: new Champions League format
Author: dnina10 Date: 19-12-2016, 22:20	I have just suggested an idea to Bert that might work for the Champions League. Instead of having a preliminary round, just take the direct entries from the 2nd qualifying round and join them with the the teams below them. That would give us a total of 40 teams in qualifying round 1, with the 20 winners progressing to qualifying round 2. That still gives us 20 teams in that round

Author: dnina10
Date: 19-12-2016, 22:24

I also have an idea for the Europa league qualifying rounds (the Europa League route)
Instead of a preliminary round draw, here is an idea:
Qualifying Round 1: 124 teams
Qualifying Round 2: 62 qualifying round 1 winners + 18 direct entries
Qualifying Round 3: 40 qualifying round 2 winners + 9 direct entries + the 3 teams from the Champions League qualifying round 2 non champions route
Qualifying Round 4: 26 qualifying round winners
That would give all teams more chances of qualifying

Author: erdinc
Date: 20-12-2016, 21:24

I have two more questions, but we may not know the answers until after the Regulations got published.

Qualification points:
No clubs will be eliminated from UCL anymore so awarding 0.500 to UCL QR1 losers and 1.000 to UCL QR2 losers are off.
Another round is added to UEL. 8 clubs will be eliminated at Preliminary Round. 0.250 was being awarded to UEL QR1 losers before. Preliminary Round losers should be awarded less than that.
Possibly 0.125
Or all new awards to be announced

UCL Seedings - Pot 1:
Will it be two title holders and 6 champions?
Or same as last year?
Or just the coefficients as before?

Author: Rene
Date: 28-12-2016, 07:37

Are You sure that UEFA is going to count 20% of national coefficient to the clubs which are bellow it:

This was last statement: "The new club coefficient will no longer include a 20% contribution of the respective national association coefficient in order to avoid further unfair advantage for clubs of top-ranked associations and penalisation of clubs with good individual performances but a weak association coefficient. The club coefficient used for seeding purposes will be calculated using results of the past five years to reflect the current strength of teams and will not contain bonus points for previous titles."

And it would be fair if they do not calculate it at all.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: putje Date: 30-12-2016, 16:47	The way I read the 20% question is : We don't use the 20% country coefficient in the yearly calculation. But if a team enters a year with less than 20% of the country coefficient, they get the 20% as a minimum score. Just like Erdinc i'm curieus too about how they will solve the calculation for the "prelimary round". I'm affraid they won't give anything to these teams.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: AlanK Date: 30-12-2016, 17:06	I read it the way putje reads it. I do, however, suspect that teams in qualifying rounds will always have a minimum coefficient equal to the country coefficient times 20%--or times a percentage to be named later. (grin)

Re: new Champions League format
Author: romain78 Date: 02-01-2017, 02:44	I'm French and I'm new on this forum. Do you know if the UEFA has published an official access list for the European cups for the period 2018-2021. I don't find one anywhere. Could you help me ? Thank you

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 02-01-2017, 09:11	UEFA didn't publish the official list yet.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: romain78 Date: 02-01-2017, 14:25	Thank you ! I asked these questions because I saw on the UEFA website some articles which said that some new dispositions about this access list were decided during last December by the Executive Committee, but I didn't find an official document, just your "non-official" table, which is very well done and very clear. You make a very good work. Go on !

Re: new Champions League format
Author: torcidero Date: 13-01-2017, 12:46	Is somewhere a ranking list of clubs based on 10 years, which will be used for the period 2018-2021 for Champions League and Europa League. I want to see where is Hajduk Split in this format vs new format.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 13-01-2017, 15:03	10 years ranking will only be used for financial distribution I believe. Not for seeding.

Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 10-02-2017, 11:34

HNS published a report on the changes in UEFA competitions for the 2018-2021 cycle.

As I'm not sure which of the changes have already been reported on this topic, I'll post those which I think are new:

- they mention a preliminary round in singular, implying only one round, both in CL and EL
- qualifying rounds start one week later than before, and will be played during the Super Cup week in August, which until now was used as a week off. No mention of the impact of this change on the draw date of the play-off round and the unseeded winners "taking" the coefficients of their opponents.
- all matches in CL knock-out rounds (last 16 and later) will start at 9pm CET

The full report, though in Croatian language, is available here.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 10-02-2017, 13:36	What do you mean by "singular"? 1 match in stead of home and away?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 10-02-2017, 17:06	No, as one round (home & away), instead of two rounds. But it could be that they misinterpreted the UEFA document.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 10-02-2017, 20:12	If the CL-TH spot is not used that is possible, since then 2 spots in Q1 are available for the bottom 4 champions. But if it is not used you need 2 rounds to determine which of the 4 will qualify for Q1. Unless they have decided to let 6 teams start in Q0.

Author: Rene
Date: 14-02-2017, 08:33

Access list is exactly as provided by Kassiesa.
Everything else is the same, just starts 7 days later because week from Supercup will be used.

Money:
-3% of all earnings for clubs that were eliminate in qualification (84-96m�)
-4% solidarity for those who are not qualified (120-128m�)
-covered real cost of competition for clubs (to 280m�)
-UEFA cuts its share from 8% to 7% if earings are between 2,5-3b� or to 6,5% if it is higher
-CL and EL splits money 4:1, but +60m� will be allocated to EL from CL (50m� to pool+10m� to eliminated clubs)

Clubs split:

CL (25% to all clubs in group fase, 30% for results, 15% marketing pool, 30% club coefficient*)
EL (25% to all clubs in group fase, 30% for results, 30% marketing pool, 15% club coefficient*)

*this club coefficient is calculated for last 10 years

Club coefficient for competition stays the same, 5 last years, but without country 20% for clubs that had bigger than that.

Author: Funkmaster
Date: 15-02-2017, 17:41

Hi guys, does anybody of you know something about the drawing schedule of the qualification rounds? From 2018 on there should be more draws than now imo. There has to be a draw before the first qualification round, before the third qualification round (because there are 2-3 clubs coming "down" from 2 CL-QU (non champions way)) and before the fourth qualification round (play-off). What do you think/know?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: jkjkjk Date: 06-03-2017, 23:50	When will UEFA release its final decision on format and access list? April? May?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: kalim Date: 09-03-2017, 04:09	Hello Some of you wanted an official document. I've found on the official website of the Swiss Football League this Access List for 2018-2021 who looks like official. http://www.sfl.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/www.sfl.ch/downloads/UEFA/Setzlisten/Ac cessList_2018-21.pdf

Re: new Champions League format
Author: m-p3 Date: 09-03-2017, 10:16 Edited by: m-p3 at: 09-03-2017, 10:16	Many thanks,kalim! Bert, Swap places Russia and Portugal, please, in https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/AccessList2018.html

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Jesperernst Date: 09-03-2017, 13:38	Hi I'm trying to figure out what the new format will mean to my team, Br�ndby IF (Denmark). Assuming we will end 2 or 3 in 2018, I think the route to the group stage of EL will be more difficult than now, since there is only 13 spots in the cup winners and league route in 2018, where there is 22 today. Also, could you do a team ranking for 2018, with the new rules?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: kassiesa Date: 09-03-2017, 14:53 Edited by: administrator at: 09-03-2017, 14:54	Thanks kalim. I've updated my version: Preliminary Access List 2018/19. There was a minor modification to the Europa League preliminary round. And thanks for feedback, mp-3. Russia is now at rank 6.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: kassiesa Date: 09-03-2017, 14:59	@Jesperernst At the start of next season the team ranking 2018, calculated with the new rules (no 20%), will be available. This team ranking will include the 2017/18 season. So, not final before May 2018.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: biagio Date: 10-03-2017, 05:02	BERT you need to fix Cyprus too. they are 24th now, with CW starting in Q2.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 10-03-2017, 10:24	@biagio Thanks for feedback. Also added a link to a local copy of the UEFA document because the link to the Swiss league website stopped working today.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: m-p3 Date: 10-03-2017, 15:33	Partizan_Belgrade, Will they cancel or not 1 pot for champions from the top 7?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: jkjkjk Date: 10-03-2017, 23:29	Sorry for repeating my question, but I looked again and can't find a definite answer. When will UEFA release its final decision on format and access list? April? May? I saw April 4/5 for meetings, is that when it will happen?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Massimo Date: 16-03-2017, 16:13	Is there any information available about how the groupdrawing will go? Will teams of poule1 consist the CH of the top 7 countries +CLH,like it is at the moment? Or will it be the top 8 ranked teams from last 10 (or 5) years? Sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere else before. Thanks in advance.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 16-03-2017, 17:29	There is no info at the moment about the way the draw for the groupstage will be performed from 2018/19 onwards (as far as I know). And I don't expect that info untill the regulations are known, which can take 1 year.

Author: JPV
Date: 19-03-2017, 20:19

fwiw: the new team ranking compared to the previous one.
Now = the current ranking
Soon = the current ranking with the new formula
diff = difference. positive means team rises in the ranking

TEAM CTY NOW SOON DIFF
Real Madrid Esp 1 1 0
Bayern M�nchen Ger 2 2 0
FC Barcelona Esp 3 3 0
Atl�tico Madrid Esp 4 5 -1
Juventus Ita 5 4 1
Paris Saint-Germain Fra 6 6 0
Borussia Dortmund Ger 7 7 0
Sevilla Esp 8 9 -1
Benfica Por 9 8 1
Chelsea Eng 10 10 0
Arsenal Eng 11 11 0
Manchester City Eng 12 13 -1
FC Porto Por 13 12 1
Schalke 04 Ger 14 14 0
Bayer Leverkusen Ger 15 17 -2
Napoli Ita 16 18 -2
Shakhtar Donetsk Ukr 17 14 3
Zenit St. Petersburg Rus 18 16 2
Manchester United Eng 19 19 0
Tottenham Hotspur Eng 20 22 -2
Valencia Esp 21 21 0
FC Basel Sui 22 20 2
Fiorentina Ita 23 25 -2
Dinamo Kiev Ukr 24 23 1
Olympiakos Piraeus Gre 25 23 2
Villarreal Esp 26 29 -3
Olympique Lyon Fra 27 27 0
Ajax Ned 28 26 2
Athletic Bilbao Esp 29 38 -9
Galatasaray Tur 30 28 2
Anderlecht Bel 31 32 -1
AS Monaco Fra 32 30 2
Lazio Ita 33 33 0
Liverpool Eng 34 34 0
VfL Wolfsburg Ger 35 31 4
Borussia M�nchengladbach Ger 36 41 -5
Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk Ukr 37 36 1
AS Roma Ita 38 37 1
Fenerbah�e Tur 39 35 4
Sparta Praha Cze 40 39 1
AC Milan Ita 41 40 1
PSV Eindhoven Ned 42 42 0
Racing Genk Bel 43 43 0
Internazionale Ita 44 49 -5
Rubin Kazan Rus 45 47 -2
Besiktas Tur 46 44 2
Celtic Sco 47 45 2
M�laga CF Esp 48 46 2
Viktoria Plzen Cze 49 50 -1
FC Salzburg Aut 50 48 2
CSKA Moscow Rus 51 58 -7
Club Brugge Bel 52 53 -1
FC K�benhavn Den 53 52 1
Sporting Braga Por 54 60 -6
Sporting CP Lisbon Por 55 62 -7
Leicester City Eng 56 51 5
AS Saint-�tienne Fra 57 66 -9
AA Gent Bel 58 56 2
Steaua Bucuresti Rom 59 56 3
PAOK Thessaloniki Gre 60 61 -1
Celta de Vigo Esp 61 55 6
Ludogorets Razgrad Bul 62 54 8
Levante UD Esp 63 59 4
AZ Alkmaar Ned 64 64 0
Real Betis Esp 65 63 2
FK Krasnodar Rus 66 69 -3
Anzhi Makhachkala Rus 67 65 2
Newcastle United Eng 68 67 1
BATE Borisov Bls 69 70 -1
Girondins Bordeaux Fra 70 77 -7
Young Boys Sui 71 74 -3
Everton Eng 72 68 4
Rapid Wien Aut 73 76 -3
Legia Warsaw Pol 74 72 2
Olympique Marseille Fra 75 81 -6
Eintracht Frankfurt Ger 76 71 5
Dinamo Moscow Rus 77 73 4
Torino Ita 78 75 3
Trabzonspor Tur 79 80 -1
Real Sociedad Esp 80 84 -4
VfB Stuttgart Ger 81 82 -1
APOEL Nicosia Cyp 82 78 4
Dinamo Zagreb Cro 83 83 0
Hannover 96 Ger 84 79 5
Slovan Liberec Cze 85 89 -4
FSV Mainz 05 Ger 86 87 -1
FK Rostov Rus 87 85 2
Maccabi Tel-Aviv Isr 88 86 2
Feyenoord Ned 89 93 -4
FC Augsburg Ger 90 88 2
Southampton FC Eng 91 92 -1
Lille OSC Fra 92 99 -7
Swansea City Eng 93 90 3
NK Maribor Slo 94 91 3
Standard Li�ge Bel 95 118 -23
SC Freiburg Ger 96 94 2
Lokomotiv Moscow Rus 97 96 1
Metalist Kharkiv Ukr 98 98 0
Molde FK Nor 99 97 2
En Avant Guingamp Fra 100 95 5
Wigan Athletic Eng 101 102 -1
Udinese Ita 102 110 -8
Spartak Moscow Rus 103 115 -12
FC Z�rich Sui 104 114 -10
Sassuolo Ita 105 101 4
Garabag Agdam Azb 106 103 3
Astra Giurgiu Rom 107 113 -6
Chernomorets Odesa Ukr 108 104 4
West Ham United Eng 109 105 4
Austria Wien Aut 110 116 -6
Montpellier Fra 111 107 4
Malm� FF Swe 112 108 4
KSC Lokeren Bel 113 119 -6
CFR Cluj Rom 114 109 5
Estoril Praia Por 115 123 -8
Hertha BSC Ger 116 100 16
FK Astana Kaz 117 111 6
OGC Nice Fra 118 127 -9
Hull City Eng 119 105 14
FC Midtjylland Den 120 126 -6
Partizan Belgrade Srb 121 122 -1
Osmanlispor Tur 122 117 5
Asteras Tripolis Gre 123 133 -10
NK Rijeka Cro 124 130 -6
Sampdoria Ita 125 112 13
Kuban Krasnodar Rus 126 124 2
Panathinaikos Gre 127 136 -9
Vit�ria Guimar�es Por 128 129 -1
Maritimo Funchal Por 128 125 3
Esbjerg fB Den 130 120 10
FC Sion Sui 131 121 10
Zulte Waregem Bel 132 128 4
CF Os Belenenses Por 133 131 2
Rio Ave Por 133 134 -1
Acad�mica Coimbra Por 133 132 1
Zorya Luhansk Ukr 136 141 -5
Pa�os de Ferreira Por 137 135 2
Rosenborg BK Nor 138 144 -6
Hajduk Split Cro 139 176 -37
FC Twente Enschede Ned 140 142 -2
FC Arouca Por 141 139 2
Nacional Funchal Por 141 139 2
AaB Aalborg Den 143 137 6
FC Nordsj�lland Den 143 138 5
Sheriff Tiraspol Mol 145 143 2
Atromitos FC Gre 146 167 -21
Dinamo Minsk Bls 147 156 -9
Lech Poznan Pol 148 157 -9
Grasshoppers Z�rich Sui 149 162 -13
Hapoel Beer-Sheva Isr 150 147 3
Bursaspor Tur 151 158 -7
Apollon Limassol Cyp 152 154 -2
HJK Helsinki Fin 153 145 8
Vorskla Poltava Ukr 154 148 6
Metalurg Donetsk Ukr 154 148 6
IF Elfsborg Swe 156 165 -9
FC Sankt Gallen Sui 157 146 11
Istanbul Basaksehir Tur 158 158 0
Mlad� Boleslav Cze 159 168 -9
AIK Stockholm Swe 160 173 -13
FC Thun Sui 161 161 0
Neftchi Baku Azb 162 163 -1
Konyaspor Tur 163 154 9
FK Jablonec Cze 164 172 -8
FC Oleksandriya Ukr 165 148 17
Arsenal Kiev Ukr 165 148 17
FC Luzern Sui 167 175 -8
Charleroi Bel 168 152 16
Karab�kspor Tur 169 153 16
Vojvodina Novi Sad Srb 170 182 -12
Vitesse Arnhem Ned 171 181 -10
Br�ndby IF Den 172 194 -22
Eskisehirspor Tur 173 158 15
Videoton Feh�rv�r Hun 174 164 10
FC Groningen Ned 175 169 6
Maccabi Haifa Isr 176 171 5
Hapoel Tel-Aviv Isr 176 178 -2
Omonia Nicosia Cyp 178 214 -36
AEL Limassol Cyp 178 170 8
Slavia Praha Cze 180 166 14
IFK G�teborg Swe 181 213 -32
Hapoel Kiryat Shmona Isr 182 176 6
Pandurii T�rgu Jiu Rom 183 187 -4
Petrolul Ploiesti Rom 183 203 -20
Gabala FK Azb 185 189 -4
Troms� IL Nor 186 191 -5
Lokomotiva Zagreb Cro 187 200 -13
FK Aktobe Kaz 187 201 -14
Shakhtior Saligorsk Bls 189 237 -48
PEC Zwolle Ned 190 180 10
Heerenveen Ned 190 174 16
Slask Wroclaw Pol 192 188 4
Servette FC Gen�ve Sui 193 179 14
Slovan Bratislava Svk 194 221 -27
Red Star Belgrade Srb 195 205 -10
Str�msgodset IF Nor 196 226 -30
Admira Wacker Aut 197 195 2
Shakhtyor Karaganda Kaz 198 201 -3
Heracles Almelo Ned 199 183 16
Helsingborg IF Swe 200 186 14
DVSC Debrecen Hun 201 221 -20
AS Trenc�n Svk 202 231 -29
Spartak Trnava Svk 202 230 -28
Sk�nderbeu Kor�� Alb 204 192 12
Aberdeen Sco 205 238 -33
Motherwell Sco 205 234 -29
PAS Giannina Gre 207 197 10
AEK Athens Gre 207 197 10
Xanthi FC Gre 207 197 10
SCR Altach Aut 210 190 20
FC Pasching Aut 210 216 -6
Sturm Graz Aut 210 206 4
RNK Split Cro 213 211 2
St. Johnstone Sco 214 247 -33
FC Utrecht Ned 215 183 32
Ruch Chorzow Pol 216 221 -5
Dinamo Bucuresti Rom 217 219 -2
FC Vaslui Rom 217 219 -2
S�nderjyskE Den 219 231 -12
AC Horsens Den 219 193 26
Randers FC Den 219 218 1
Go Ahead Eagles Ned 222 183 39
AEK Larnaca Cyp 223 238 -15
FH Hafnarfjardar Isl 224 240 -16
Wolfsberger AC Aut 225 206 19
St. P�lten Aut 225 208 17
SV Gr�dig Aut 225 208 17
SV Ried Aut 225 195 30
Inter Baku Azb 229 277 -48
Slaven Koprivnica Cro 229 211 18
Beitar Jerusalem Isr 231 256 -25
Viitorul Constanta Rom 232 210 22
ASA Tirgu Mures Rom 232 204 28
Rapid Bucuresti Rom 232 228 4
MSK Zilina Svk 235 243 -8
Zalgiris Vilnius Lit 236 221 15
Dundalk Irl 237 235 2
Hearts FC Sco 238 244 -6
The New Saints Wal 239 221 18
FK Ventspils Lat 240 240 0
Odd Grenland Nor 241 266 -25
NK Osijek Cro 242 217 25
Kairat Almaty Kaz 242 280 -38
Dinamo Tbilisi Geo 244 236 8
Dila Gori Geo 244 240 4
FK Minsk Bls 246 215 31
BK H�cken Swe 247 248 -1
CSMS Iasi Rom 248 228 20
FC Botosani Rom 248 227 21
FK Sarajevo Bos 250 254 -4
AGF Aarhus Den 250 231 19
Torpedo Zhodino Bls 252 246 6
Anorthosis Famagusta Cyp 253 268 -15
KR Reykjavik Isl 254 289 -35
Vardar Skopje Mac 255 250 5
FC Gomel Bls 256 255 1
F91 Dudelange Lux 256 258 -2
Zaglebie Lubin Pol 258 252 6
Piast Gliwice Pol 258 261 -3
IFK Norrk�ping Swe 260 245 15
Gefle IF Swe 260 248 12
IF Brommapojkarna Swe 260 253 7
Kalmar FF Swe 260 265 -5
Milsami Orhei Mol 264 288 -24
Hapoel Ramat-Gan Isr 265 269 -4
Bnei Yehuda Isr 265 250 15
Zeljeznicar Sarajevo Bos 267 281 -14
Kalju Nomme Est 267 273 -6
Hibernian Sco 269 271 -2
Dundee United Sco 269 267 2
Ermis Aradippou Cyp 271 257 14
FC Beroe Stara Zagora Bul 272 291 -19
Botev Plovdiv Bul 272 299 -27
Aalesunds FK Nor 274 276 -2
Olimpija Ljubljana Slo 275 299 -24
Cukaricki Belgrade Srb 276 303 -27
FK Kuk�si Alb 277 295 -18
Khazar Lenkoran Azb 277 282 -5
Valletta FC Mlt 277 273 4
Neman Grodno Bls 280 259 21
Naftan Novopolotsk Bls 280 259 21
FC Vaduz Lie 282 344 -62
Jagiellonia Bialystok Pol 282 261 21
Zawisza Bydgoszcz Pol 282 261 21
Levski Sofia Bul 285 285 0
Zimbru Chisinau Mol 286 294 -8
Maccabi Netanya Isr 287 269 18
FK Jagodina Srb 288 303 -15
St. Patrick's Athletic Irl 289 308 -19
Inverness CT Sco 290 271 19
Cracovia Krak�w Pol 291 261 30
CSKA Sofia Bul 292 285 7
Stjarnan FC Isl 292 293 -1
Stab�k IF Nor 294 278 16
FK Haugesund Nor 294 275 19
IL H�dd Nor 294 278 16
NK Domzale Slo 297 297 0
Mura Murska Sobota Slo 297 290 7
Kapaz Ganja Azb 299 282 17
Zrinjski Mostar Bos 299 305 -6
Levadia Tallinn Est 299 309 -10
Ordabasy Shymkent Kaz 299 296 3
Litex Lovech Bul 303 297 6
Ferencv�ros Hun 304 317 -13
Crusaders Belfast Nir 304 309 -5
Rabotnicki Skopje Mac 306 302 4
FK Baku Azb 307 282 25
Birkirkara Mlt 307 309 -2
Shirak Gyumri Arm 309 319 -10
Cherno More Varna Bul 310 291 19
Lokomotiv Plovdiv Bul 310 285 25
Dacia Chisinau Mol 312 342 -30
Cliftonville Nir 312 315 -3
Linfield Belfast Nir 312 319 -7
NK Koper Slo 315 313 2
Ekranas Panevezys Lit 316 309 7
Siroki Brijeg Bos 317 328 -11
Irtysh Pavlodar Kaz 317 305 12
Mladost Podgorica Mon 317 314 3
CS Fola Esch Lux 320 317 3
Differdange 03 Lux 320 329 -9
Slavia Sofia Bul 322 299 23
ETO Gy�r Hun 323 316 7
Shkendija Tetovo Mac 324 336 -12
NK Celje Slo 324 323 1
Nova Gorica Slo 324 326 -2
FK Senica Svk 327 321 6
Sligo Rovers Irl 328 324 4
Zhetysu Taldykorgan Kaz 329 305 24
Buducnost Podgorica Mon 329 329 0
Sutjeska Niksic Mon 329 322 7
Pyunik Yerevan Arm 332 344 -12
Shamrock Rovers Irl 333 333 0
Partizani Tirana Alb 334 325 9
Flora Tallinn Est 334 340 -6
Rudar Pljevlja Mon 334 351 -17
Chikhura Sachkhere Geo 337 351 -14
Lincoln Red Imps Gib 338 329 9
FK Jelgava Lat 339 339 0
V�kingur Far 340 344 -4
Breidablik Isl 341 348 -7
MTK Budapest Hun 342 355 -13
Di�sgy�ri Miskolc Hun 342 333 9
Honv�d Budapest Hun 342 348 -6
Metalurg Skopje Mac 345 340 5
Rudar Velenje Slo 345 326 19
MFK Kosice Svk 347 337 10
Hibernians FC Mlt 348 356 -8
SJK Sein�joki Fin 349 347 2
FC Zestafoni Geo 350 348 2
FC Santa Coloma And 351 329 22
Skonto Riga Lat 352 370 -18
Daugava Daugavpils Lat 352 354 -2
Spartak Myjava Svk 354 337 17
Cork City Irl 355 366 -11
Zeta Golubovci Mon 356 342 14
RoPS Rovaniemi Fin 357 374 -17
KuPS Kuopio Fin 357 353 4
MyPa-47 Fin 357 382 -25
Alashkert FC Arm 360 357 3
B36 Torshavn Far 361 359 2
HB Torshavn Far 361 369 -8
USV Eschen-Mauren Lie 361 335 26
IBV Vestmannaeyjar Isl 364 378 -14
FC Tiraspol Mol 365 363 2
Derry City Irl 366 367 -1
KF La�i Alb 367 385 -18
Honka Espoo Fin 368 361 7
Inter Turku Fin 368 371 -3
Ulisses Yerevan Arm 370 368 2
FK Liepaja Lat 371 360 11
Jeunesse d'Esch Lux 371 400 -29
Th�r Akureyri Isl 373 362 11
Zaria Balti Mol 374 357 17
Saxan Gagauz Yeri Mol 374 363 11
Veris Chisinau Mol 374 363 11
Teuta Durr�s Alb 377 391 -14
KS Flamurtari Vlor� Alb 377 373 4
Celik Niksic Mon 377 405 -28
IFK Mariehamn Fin 380 376 4
JJK Jyv�skyl� Fin 380 384 -4
VPS Vaasa Fin 380 387 -7
Spartaks Jurmala Lat 383 404 -21
Metalurgs Liepaja Lat 383 394 -11
EB Streymur Far 385 380 5
Valur Reykjavik Isl 386 372 14
Fram Reykjavik Isl 386 378 8
Vikingur Reykjavik Isl 386 374 12
Renova Dzepciste Mac 389 405 -16
FK Turnovo Mac 389 389 0
Atlantas Klaipeda Lit 391 394 -3
Suduva Marijampole Lit 391 418 -27
Uni College Dublin Irl 393 380 13
SK Tirana Alb 394 382 12
Kalev Sillam�e Est 394 413 -19
FC Lahti Fin 396 387 9
TPS Turku Fin 396 376 20
Banants Yerevan Arm 398 397 1
Gandzasar Kapan Arm 398 405 -7
Olimpi Rustavi Geo 398 394 4
Torpedo Kutaisi Geo 398 414 -16
FC Lusitanos And 402 386 16
Glenavon Nir 403 423 -20
FK Trakai Lit 404 409 -5
Tre Penne Sma 405 391 14
La Fiorita Sma 405 391 14
Drogheda United Irl 407 390 17
Bohemians Dublin Irl 407 408 -1
Sloboda Tuzla Bos 409 398 11
FK Borac Banja Luka Bos 409 410 -1
Olimpic Sarajevo Bos 409 410 -1
Radnik Bijeljina Bos 409 398 11
Trans Narva Est 409 416 -7
Mika Ashtarak Arm 414 419 -5
Samtredia Geo 414 410 4
Dinamo Batumi Geo 414 402 12
Sioni Bolnisi Geo 414 414 0
Spartak Tskhinvali Geo 414 402 12
Airbus UK Broughton Wal 414 429 -15
Bala Town Wal 414 442 -28
Europa FC Gib 421 437 -16
Daugava Riga Lat 422 400 22
NSI Runavik Far 423 420 3
Glentoran Nir 424 430 -6
Portadown Nir 424 420 4
Sileks Kratovo Mac 426 425 1
Teteks Tetovo Mac 426 416 10
Kruoja Pakruojis Lit 428 445 -17
Infonet Tallinn Est 429 434 -5
Santos Tartu Est 429 434 -5
Balzan FC Mlt 429 446 -17
Sliema Wanderers Mlt 429 428 1
Bokelj Kotor Mon 429 425 4
Lovcen Cetinje Mon 429 422 7
Connah's Quay Wal 435 431 4
Bangor City Wal 435 423 12
Newtown Wal 435 439 -4
Prestatyn Town Wal 435 425 10
UE Santa Coloma And 439 436 3
Progr�s Niederkorn Lux 440 431 9
CS Grevenmacher Lux 440 440 0
IF Fuglafj�rdur Far 442 450 -8
Banga Gargzdai Lit 443 440 3
FK Siauliai Lit 443 448 -5
Folgore Sma 445 433 12
Floriana Mlt 446 446 0
Llandudno FC Wal 447 449 -2
Aberystwyth Town Wal 447 437 10
Cefn Druids Wal 447 442 5
Llanelli FC Wal 447 442 5
Libertas Sma 451 451 0
Sant Juli� And 452 452 0
Juvenes Dogana Sma 453 453 0

Author: JPV
Date: 21-03-2017, 10:53

I've got a question concerning the new format. I'm trying to figure out the access list when the title holder of CL or EL qualifies through their domestic competition.

I get the CL-part of it, but every change in the CL qualification path, has a influence on the EL qualification path. Could someone check how the qualification path in EL would be if the EL & CL winner qualify through their domestic competition?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 21-03-2017, 14:06
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 21-03-2017, 14:08

If both the CL-TH and EL-TH qualify for CL-GS via their league, then CH 11 and N3 5 qualify directly for the CL-GS.

For champions path this will have the following consequences:
CH 13 --> CL-Q4
CH 15 --> CL-Q3
CH 18 --> CL-Q2
Not sure what will be done with the 4 CL Q0 teams. They could either have 2 qualify for CL-Q1, or have CL 52 enter in CL-Q1.

Because of this 1 less team will enter in champions path of EL in Q2. So an odd number of teams is left there. Most likely 1 will get a bye to Q3. Should be the highest on the access list I guess.

For non-champions path this will have the following consequences:
N2 10 & 11 --> CL-Q3

Because of this 1 less teams will enter EL-Q3, which will have the following cosequences:
CW 18 --> EL-Q3
CW 25 --> EL-Q2
CW 50 and 51 --> EL-Q1

Re: new Champions League format
Author: JPV Date: 21-03-2017, 16:34	"Because of this 1 less team will enter in champions path of EL in Q2. So an odd number of teams is left there. Most likely 1 will get a bye to Q3. Should be the highest on the access list I guess." this should be indeed the only solution, but it's a bit weird and a absolute first (as a standard procedure in the access list), i guess.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 21-03-2017, 17:43	It's new that you can end up with an odd number of teams indeed, but unavoidable since you have a round in EL now in which all teams are losers from the CL. So no chance to move up teams from an earlier round.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: JPV Date: 21-03-2017, 18:06	you might work with lucky losers

Author: Ed
Date: 22-03-2017, 11:30
Edited by: Ed
at: 22-03-2017, 11:59

Forza, in case of only one Cq1CL-loser getting a bye into Cq3EL an odd number of teams will remain in Cq3EL (1 bye + 10 Cq2CL-losers + 8 Cq2EL-winners). So there need to be 3 Cq1CL-losers who get a bye to Cq3EL to get:
Cq2EL: 14 Cq1CL-losers,
Cq3EL: 3 bye + 10 Cq2CL-losers + 7 Cq2EL-winners,
Cq4EL: 6 Cq3CL-losers + 10 Cq3EL-winners.

No, you are right, I forgot the 2 losers from Cq0CL in this case who also must have a spot in Cq2EL. So it will be:
Cq2EL: 16 Cq1CL-losers + 2 Cq0CL-losers,
Cq3EL: 1 bye + 10 Cq2CL-losers + 9 Cq2EL-winners,
Cq4EL: 6 Cq3CL-losers + 10 Cq3EL-winners.

Author: JPV
Date: 23-03-2017, 11:44

fwiw, i calculated the points each team (qualified according to M-P3's list) would get when entering in the new access list 2018-2019 (also based on AZ's assumptions of a bye)

Team Old Start Old Points New Start New Points
Sk�nderbeu EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 3,5
Kuk�si CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 2,5
Luft�tari Gjirokast�r EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Partizani EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
FC Santa Coloma CL CHQ1 0,5 CL CHQ0 2,5
UE Sant Juli� EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 0,5
UE Santa Coloma EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 0,5
Pyunik Yerevan EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 2
Shirak Gyumri EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Alashkert CL CHQ1 0,5 CL CHQ1 1
Gandzasar Kapan EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Red Bull Salzburg CL CHQ2 11,5 CL CHQ2 11,5
Sturm Graz EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 3,5
Austria Wien EL Q2 7,5 EL Q2 3,5
SCR Altach EL Q3 0,5 EL Q3 0,5
Qarabag Agdam CL CHQ2 6,5 CL CHQ1 10
FK Qabala EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 3,5
Inter Baku EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 2
Zire FK EL Q1 2 EL Q1 0,5
BATE Borisov CL CHQ2 11,5 CL CHQ1 10
Dinamo Minsk EL Q1 5 EL Q1 5
Shakhter Soligorsk EL Q2 2 EL Q2 2
FC Minsk EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Anderlecht CL GS 10 CL GS 13
AA Gent EL Q3 11 EL Q3 11
Club Brugge CL NCQ3 10 CL NCQ3 10
Zulte Waregem EL GS 3 EL GS 3
Oostende EL Q3 0,5 EL Q2 2
HSK Zrinjski CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 2,5
Zeljeznicar Sarajevo EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
FK Sarajevo EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Radnik Bijeljina EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Ludogorets CL CHQ2 11,5 CL CHQ1 13
Cherno More Varna EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
CSKA-Sofia EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Levski Sofia EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
HNK Rijeka CL CHQ2 2,5 CL CHQ2 6,5
Hajduk Split EL Q1 5 EL Q1 5
Dinamo Zagreb EL Q3 8 EL Q3 2
NK Osijek EL Q2 0,5 EL Q2 0,5
APOEL Nicosia CL CHQ2 8,5 CL CHQ1 10
Omonia Nicosia EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 3,5
Apollon Limassol EL Q2 3,5 EL Q2 3,5
AEK Larnaca EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 2
Sparta Praha EL Q3 16 EL Q3 13
Viktoria Plzen CL CHQ3 10 CL CHQ4 8,5
Slavia Praha CL NCQ3 1 CL NCQ2 5
FC Fastav Zl�n EL Q3 0,5 EL Q2 2
FK Mlada Boleslav EL Q2 3,5 EL Q2 2
FC K�benhavn CL CHQ2 11,5 CL CHQ1 13
S�nderjyskE EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 3,5
Br�ndby IF EL Q2 2 EL Q2 2
Lyngby BK EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Arsenal EL GS 26 EL GS 26
Manchester United EL GS 21 EL GS 21
Chelsea CL GS 17 CL GS 17
Manchester City CL GS 17 CL GS 17
Tottenham Hotspur CL GS 17 CL GS 17
Liverpool CL NCQ4 11,5 CL GS 13
Everton EL Q3 8 EL Q2 9,5
FC Levadia Tallinn EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
N�mme Kalju EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
FC Infonet CL CHQ1 0,5 CL CHQ1 1
FC Flora Tallinn EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
V�kingur CL CHQ1 2 CL CHQ1 2,5
NS� Runav�k EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 2
B36 T�rshavn EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 2
K� EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
HJK EL Q1 5 EL Q1 3,5
IFK Mariehamn CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 1
VPS EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
SJK EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Paris Saint-Germain CL GS 23 CL GS 23
Olympique Lyonnais EL GS 17 EL GS 17
AS Monaco CL GS 10 CL GS 13
Girondins de Bordeaux EL Q3 8 EL Q2 9,5
OGC Nice CL NCQ3 5 CL NCQ3 3,5
Olympique de Marseille EL Q3 8 EL Q3 2
FC Samtredia CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 1
Dinamo Batumi EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Torpedo Kutaisi EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Chikhura Sachkere EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Bayern M�nchen CL GS 30 CL GS 30
Borussia Dortmund CL GS 23 CL GS 23
RB Leipzig CL GS 7 CL GS 7
Hoffenheim CL NCQ4 3,5 CL GS 7
Hertha BSC EL GS 3 EL GS 5
Eintracht Frankfurt EL Q3 8 EL Q2 3,5
1. FC K�ln EL GS 3 EL GS 3
Lincoln Red Imps FC CL CHQ1 2 CL CHQ0 2,5
Europa FC EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 2
Saint Joseph's FC EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 0,5
Olympiacos CL CHQ3 20 CL CHQ3 20
PAOK EL Q3 11 EL Q3 11
Panathinaikos EL Q3 2 EL Q2 3,5
AEK EL Q2 2 EL Q2 2
Panionios CL NCQ3 1 CL NCQ2 1
Videoton FC CL CHQ2 2,5 CL CHQ1 4
Ferencv�ros EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Vasas EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Budapest Honv�d EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
FH CL CHQ2 2,5 CL CHQ1 4
Stjarnan EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
KR EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Valur EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Dundalk CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 2,5
Derry City EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Cork City EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Shamrock Rovers EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Hapoel Beer Sheva CL CHQ2 2,5 CL CHQ1 4
Maccabi Tel Aviv EL Q2 9,5 EL Q2 3,5
Maccabi Petah Tikva EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Beitar Jerusalem EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 2
Juventus CL GS 23 CL GS 23
Napoli CL NCQ4 18,5 CL GS 17
Lazio EL GS 13 CL GS 13
AS Roma CL GS 10 CL GS 13
Internazionale EL GS 13 EL GS 10
Atalanta EL Q3 2 EL GS 3
FC Astana CL CHQ2 6,5 CL CHQ1 10
FC Ordabasy EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
FC Kairat EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 2
FC Irtysh EL Q1 2 EL Q1 0,5
KF Trep�a�89 CL CHQ1 0,5 CL CHQ0 1
KF Llapi EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 0,5
FK Ventspils EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 2
FK Spartaks Jurmala CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 1
FK Liepaja EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
FK Jelgava EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
FC Vaduz EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Zalgiris Vilnius CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 4
Trakai EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Suduva Marijampole EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Atlantas Klaipeda EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
F91 Dudelange CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 2,5
FC UNA Strassen EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
FC Differdange 03 EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
CS Fola Esch EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
FK Vardar CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 2,5
FK Rabotnicki EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
FK Pelister EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
KF Shk�ndija EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Valletta FC EL Q1 2 EL Q0 3,5
Hibernians CL CHQ1 2 CL CHQ1 2,5
Floriana EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 0,5
Balzan FC EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Sheriff Tiraspol CL CHQ2 2,5 CL CHQ1 8
Dacia Chisinau EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Milsami Orhei EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
FC Zaria Balti EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Buducnost Podgorica CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 2,5
Zeta EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Sutjeska EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Mladost EL Q1 2 EL Q1 0,5
Ajax CL NCQ3 16 CL NCQ3 20
PSV EL Q3 16 EL Q3 13
AZ EL GS 8 EL GS 8
Feyenoord CL GS 7 CL GS 7
FC Utrecht EL Q2 2 EL Q2 2
Crusaders CL CHQ1 2 CL CHQ1 2,5
Linfield EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Cliftonville EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Coleraine EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Rosenborg BK CL CHQ2 2,5 CL CHQ1 8
FK Haugesund EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Odds BK EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 2
SK Brann EL Q2 0,5 EL Q2 0,5
Legia Warszawa EL Q1 11 EL Q1 11
Lech Poznan EL Q2 3,5 EL Q3 2
Lechia Gdansk EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Jagiellonia Bialystok CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ2 1
Benfica CL GS 17 CL GS 17
FC Porto CL GS 17 CL GS 17
Sporting Braga EL GS 8 EL GS 8
Sporting CP CL NCQ4 8,5 CL GS 7
CS Mar�timo EL Q3 2 EL Q2 3,5
Vit�ria Guimar�es EL Q3 2 EL GS 3
Steaua Bucuresti CL NCQ3 10 CL NCQ2 11,5
Dinamo Bucuresti EL Q2 2 EL Q2 2
CFR 1907 Cluj EL Q3 6 EL Q3 2
FC Viitorul Constanta CL CHQ3 1 CL CHQ3 1
Universitatea Craiova EL Q3 0,5 EL Q2 0,5
FC Zenit EL Q3 27 EL Q3 27
FC Krasnodar EL Q3 11 EL Q2 12,5
CSKA Moskva CL NCQ3 10 CL NCQ3 10
Rubin Kazan EL GS 8 EL GS 8
Spartak Moskva CL GS 7 CL GS 7
Tre Penne EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 2
La Fiorita CL CHQ1 0,5 CL CHQ0 1
Folgore/Falciano EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 0,5
Celtic CL CHQ2 11,5 CL CHQ1 13
St. Johnstone EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 3,5
Aberdeen EL Q1 3,5 EL Q2 2
Rangers EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Crvena Zvezda CL CHQ2 2,5 CL CHQ1 4
Vojvodina Novi Sad EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 3,5
Napredak Krusevac EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
FK Radnicki Niš EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
MSK Zilina CL CHQ2 0,5 CL CHQ1 4
Slovan Bratislava EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 3,5
Podbrezov� EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
MFK Ruzomberok EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
NK Maribor CL CHQ2 8,5 CL CHQ1 10
NK Domzale EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
Olimpija Ljubljana EL Q1 2 EL Q1 2
ND Gorica EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5
Real Madrid CL GS 32 CL GS 32
FC Barcelona CL GS 27 CL GS 27
Atl�tico Madrid CL NCQ4 28,5 CL GS 27
Sevilla FC CL GS 23 CL GS 23
Athletic Club EL Q3 16 EL Q2 17,5
Villarreal CF EL GS 17 EL GS 17
Real Sociedad EL GS 5 EL GS 5
Malm� FF CL CHQ2 6,5 CL CHQ1 10
IFK G�teborg EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 3,5
AIK EL Q1 3,5 EL Q1 3,5
IFK Norrk�ping EL Q2 0,5 EL Q2 0,5
FC Basel CL GS 21 CL CHQ4 18,5
BSC Young Boys CL NCQ3 7 CL NCQ2 7
FC Sion EL GS 3 EL GS 3
FC Sankt Gallen EL Q2 3,5 EL Q2 2
FC Luzern EL Q3 0,5 EL Q3 0,5
Fenerbah�e EL Q3 16 EL Q3 16
Galatasaray EL GS 13 EL GS 13
Besiktas CL GS 7 CL GS 7
Medipol Basaksehir CL NCQ3 1 CL NCQ3 3,5
Trabzonspor EL Q2 9,5 EL Q2 3,5
Dynamo Kyiv CL NCQ3 20 CL NCQ3 24
Shakhtar Donetsk CL GS 17 CL GS 17
Zarya Luhansk EL GS 3 EL GS 3
Olimpik Donetsk EL Q3 0,5 EL Q2 2
FK Oleksandriya EL Q3 0,5 EL Q3 0,5
The New Saints CL CHQ1 2 CL CHQ1 2,5
Bangor City EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 2
Gap Connah's Quay EL Q1 0,5 EL Q0 0,5
Bala Town EL Q1 0,5 EL Q1 0,5

And for countries:
Country OLD NEW Difference
Moldova 1,75 3,125 1,375
Ukraine 8,2 9,3 1,1
Norway 2,125 3,125 1
Belgium 6,9 7,8 0,9
Faroe Islands 0,875 1,75 0,875
Lithuania 0,5 1,375 0,875
Slovakia 1,25 2,125 0,875
Sweden 3,5 4,375 0,875
Andorra 0,5 1,166666667 0,666666667
Gibraltar 1 1,666666667 0,666666667
San Marino 0,5 1,166666667 0,666666667
Albania 1,25 1,75 0,5
Armenia 0,875 1,375 0,5
Bosnia-Herzegovina 1,25 1,75 0,5
Ireland 0,5 1 0,5
Luxembourg 0,5 1 0,5
Macedonia 0,875 1,375 0,5
Malta 1,25 1,75 0,5
Wales 0,875 1,375 0,5
England 16,78571429 17,21428571 0,428571429
Bulgaria 4,375 4,75 0,375
Denmark 4,75 5,125 0,375
Hungary 1,375 1,75 0,375
Iceland 1,75 2,125 0,375
Serbia 1,75 2,125 0,375
Slovenia 3,25 3,625 0,375
Russia 12,6 12,9 0,3
Greece 7,2 7,5 0,3
Kosovo 0,5 0,75 0,25
Netherlands 9,8 10 0,2
Portugal 9,083333333 9,25 0,166666667
Germany 11,07142857 11,21428571 0,142857143
Azerbaijan 3,875 4 0,125
Estonia 1,25 1,375 0,125
Georgia 0,5 0,625 0,125
Kazakhstan 3,5 3,625 0,125
Montenegro 0,875 1 0,125
Northern Ireland 1,625 1,75 0,125
Cyprus 4,75 4,75 0
Liechtenstein 2 2 0
Scotland 5,125 5,125 0
Spain 21,21428571 21,21428571 0
Italy 13,25 13,16666667 -0,083333333
Czech Republic 6,2 6,1 -0,1
Finland 1,625 1,375 -0,25
Latvia 1,25 1 -0,25
Poland 4,25 4 -0,25
Belarus 5,125 4,75 -0,375
Croatia 4 3,5 -0,5
France 11,83333333 11,33333333 -0,5
Romania 3,9 3,4 -0,5
Turkey 9,3 8,6 -0,7
Switzerland 7 6,2 -0,8
Austria 5,75 4,75 -1
Israel 4,375 2,875 -1,5

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Rene Date: 27-03-2017, 08:24	JPV ... do you have list with ranking points for clubs?

Author: donamax7177
Date: 13-04-2017, 14:44

Link UEFA CL and UEFA EL
128 teams
ranking UEFA:
1-4 = 7 teams
5-6 = 6 teams
7-9 = 5 teams
10-13 = 4 teams
14-19 = 3 teams
20-23 = 2 teams
24 to end = 1 team

Make a bracket as tennis: 1-128, 2-127, 3-126, 4-125 etc

Round 1: only 1 match at home of the worst team (it's correct that Bayern Munchen play to la Valletta for example)
Round 2: only 1 match at home of the best team
Round 3: home/away match
From round 4 to final: one match in/out
The new is that there is a host country: for example Italy

Round 4:
match 1: Milan
match 2: Turin
match 3: Rome
match 4: Naples
match 5: Bari
match 6: Genova
match 7: Palermo
match 8: Udine

Round 5: Milan, Turin, Rome, Naples
Round 6: Milan, Rome
Final: Milan

what do you think about?

Author: el-pietro
Date: 25-05-2017, 21:25

Hi All,

this forum and website are a fantastic resource. My team (Cork City - 15 points clear after 15 games)look like we're on course to qualify for the Champions League in 2018/19 and I've been trying to get an idea of what format we are looking at so thank you all for this.

I have a question about the LC Qualifiers in the Europa League. The answer is fairly obvious but I think its worth considering anyway.

If a team was knocked out in the CL qualifiers in Round One or two, and they win their next LC Qualifying game, what would happen if the team they were beaten by lost their next CL qualifier. These two teams would again be in the same draw and could potentially play each other a second time. Would UEFA keep these teams apart as they do with teams in the Last 16 of the UCL and 32 of the UEL?

For example: Cork City (Irl) play Legia Warsawa (Pol) in the CL Q1. Legia Warsawa win and progress to CL Q2, Cork City move to the Europa League LCQ2.
Legia Warsawa draw Linfield (NIR) and are defeated in a shock result. Linfield enter QR3, Warsawa drop into the Europa League to play in LCQ3. Cork City defeat The New Saints (Wal) and enter LCq3.
At this point you keep Cork City and Warsawa apart.
But what happens if Cork City and Warsawa both win and Linfield lose in QR3. They would all be in QR4. Warsawa would be seeded, Linfield and Cork City would both be unseeded. Warsawa would be unable to play against either of those teams leaving them with only 6 possible opponents.
This gets even more confusing as it could happen to multiple teams, and UEFA will probably need to conduct the draws before all teams are known so Warsawa/Vikingur for example would be unable to be drawn against Linfield/Malmo OR BATE/Zalgaris if Zalgaris had knocked out Vikingur. We could be in a position where a team could only possibly face a very small number of opponents. It will be interesting.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 26-05-2017, 10:06	As far as I know nothing has been published yet about the way these draws are performed. Right now it is also already possible for teams to meet each other more then once in a season. For example in CL-Q3 and again in EL-GS.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 26-05-2017, 16:27 Edited by: Partizan_Belgrade at: 26-05-2017, 16:38	@ Forza-AZ: Please, contact Bert, I want to send you something, because you are some kind of specialist here. I have some documents for you.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 26-05-2017, 16:30 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 26-05-2017, 16:31	If you send me a PM on Forum 2, then I can send you my email adress. OK?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Partizan_Belgrade Date: 26-05-2017, 16:39	OK, I didn't know that is possible on forum 2.

Author: withusoragainstus
Date: 28-05-2017, 20:29

I have been reading for a long time but this is my first entry. As far as i read we want to watch more match than as it is. But i think big names not. This is my humble format. Number of qualified teams and number of matches are same as it is. But all teams are complite the leagus early August instead of mid September. In this case Barcelona and champion of Iceland can be pair in same group and small teams play more matches. Thank you for reading and maybe reply.

1.st Q Round 14 teams Country Ranking b/w 41 to 54
2.nd Q Round 7 teams from 1.st round + 7 teams Country Ranking b/w 33 to 40

Number of teams reduced from 78 to 71 and 71 to 64 respectively.

Between early August and late September 1.st Group Stage 4 teams 16 groups. Group winners advance to 2.nd Group Stage and runners ups join in Europea League. There is no other transfer from Champions League to Europea League.

Four matches before break two matches in February and March as nowadays last 16 dates. 2.nd Group Stage 4 teams 4 groups. Then winners and runners ups advance to Quarter Final, Semi Final and Final.

Beside Champions League in Europea League;

1st. Q Round 92 teams play and 46 advance.
2nd. Q Round 46 teams from 1.st round + 46 teams.

Number of teams reduce to 64 from 155.

1st Group Stage as Champions League 4 teams 16 groups. 16 group winners advance to 2nd group stage.

2nd Group Stage 4 teams 8 groups. 16 teams from 1st Group Stage and 16 teams from Champions League 1st Group Stage runners ups.

Group winners advance to Quarter Final. Then Semi Final and Final.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: jkjkjk Date: 31-05-2017, 00:00	Regarding the Preliminary Access List 2018/19: I know nothing is final yet, but is there an assumption of England and France no longer awarding a EL berth to the league cup winners? Or did I read it wrong?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 31-05-2017, 09:34	@jkjkjk I didn't read anything about that. Where did you hear that?

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 31-05-2017, 09:46

@jkjkjk

The listing of N6 or N5 for England and France in the Preliminary Access list is not intended to say that. It should still be up to the national FA. The current regulation says:

3.03 In special circumstances, the winner of another official domestic competition may be entered for the UEFA Europa League in place of the lowest ranking top domestic championship representative referred to in Paragraph 3.02(c), provided such a competition has been approved by UEFA before the start of the season.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: jkjkjk Date: 01-06-2017, 00:26	Thanks. It will be great when everything is finally confirmed by UEFA, so all the questions will be answered. Thanks for your site as well.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: SteffenM Date: 03-06-2017, 17:27	This seems weirder and weirder this proces about the new Champions League format. Do you know about it is still in the air, or it has been official and decided? Not long time ago I heard rumours that there is more parts of the reform in the air. But I guess it soon have to be decided when the national leagues restarts and needs to know what they are playing for?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: luckyluke Date: 04-06-2017, 22:47 Edited by: luckyluke at: 04-06-2017, 22:47	Some leagues has already started, but for uefa it will not be a problem

Re: new Champions League format
Author: PeteWisdom Date: 05-06-2017, 15:20	The rules for coefficient calculation are not confirmed either.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: DIMA_AZERBAIJAN Date: 13-06-2017, 21:48	Bert how do you calculate titul point? I calculate in your not right. But if the last 5 year CL 12 in 92/93 to now 8 in to 92/93 4 and also EL last 5 year 3 92/93 to now 2 in to 92/93 1

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 14-06-2017, 08:41	@DIMA_AZERBAIJAN Yes, that method is correct. What problem do you see?

Author: DIMA_AZERBAIJAN
Date: 14-06-2017, 17:41

But if İ am right point must be that.

�Real Madrid 86
�Barcelona 44
�Milan 40
�Bayern Munich 34
�Liverpool 28
�Manchester United 23
�Ajax 21
�Internazionale 21
�Juventus 16
�Porto 16
�Sevilla 13
�Chelsea 11
�Benfica 8
�Borussia Dortmund 8
�Marseille 8
�Nottingham Forest 8
�Feyenoord 7
�PSV Eindhoven 5
�Aston Villa 4
�Celtic 4
�Hamburg 4
�Red Star Belgrade 4
�Steaua București 4
�Atl�tico Madrid 4
�Parma 4
�Borussia M�nchengladbach 2
�IFK G�teborg 2
�Tottenham Hotspur 2
�CSKA Moscow 2
�Galatasaray 2
�Schalke 04 2
�Shakhtar Donetsk 2
�Valencia 2
�Zenit St. Petersburg 2
�Anderlecht 1
�Bayer Leverkusen 1
�Eintracht Frankfurt 1
�Ipswich Town 1
�Napoli 1

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 14-06-2017, 18:36
Edited by: bert.kassies
at: 14-06-2017, 18:40

@DIMA

I don't think your list is correct. Just 2 examples:

Bayern M�nchen, 31 = (1967,CWC)/1 + (1974,CC)/4 + (1975,CC)/4 + (1976,CC)/4 + (1996,UC)/2 + (2001,CL)/8 + (2013,CL)/8

Valencia, 3 = (1980,CWC)/1 + (2004,UC)/2

They could be explained if you don't add the CWC titles. And if you count the CL title of Bayern in 2013 for 12 points, but that is not correct for the 2018 ranking. The period shoud be 2014-2018 and the last titles of 2017/18 can only be added in May 2018.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: DIMA_AZERBAIJAN Date: 19-06-2017, 21:58	Ok Everythink now all right I ad CWC/ But now 3 clubs Nottingham Forest 8, Parma 6, Ipswich Town 1 do not add in your sheet. Why???

Re: new Champions League format
Author: bert.kassies Date: 19-06-2017, 22:12	Because the list currently only shows clubs that played European club football in the last 10 years.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: DIMA_AZERBAIJAN Date: 20-06-2017, 08:02	One question. İf Parma go to UEFA cups his 6 title point count or not?

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 20-06-2017, 09:59

I really don't know. That's a difficult question. If you look back to more than 60 years of European club football there is quite some chance that the structure of some clubs changed. The current Parma is a new club but it's hard to say if UEFA grants it the right on the historic titles. One argument is that a famous name brings more money when selling tickets and rights. That's something that maybe still holds true.

For other clubs one could ask the same questions. E.g. Steaua Bucuresti and Glasgow Rangers. And there might be more.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: cska Date: 20-06-2017, 18:31	Based on my observation on the "modus operandi" of UEFA and based on the officially declared reason for the introduction of "The 3-year Rule" as part of the financial fair play regulations, I would say: YES, UEFA is very likely to grant recognition to the "new" club of Parma as a "successor" to the historical achievements of the "old" club.

Author: AK83
Date: 21-06-2017, 17:46
Edited by: AK83
at: 21-06-2017, 17:52

In my opinion, merging CL and EL would be beneficial. Teams from weaker federations would raise their football and financial level. Besides, some teams in CL are not better then those playing in EL.

As an example, there will be reported 236 teams from 55 federations in season 2017/2018.
My proposal is a 96-team cup. 96 teams would be drawn into 16 groups of 6 in the following way:
- 20 the first-place teams from 1-20 federations,
- 8 the second-place teams from 1-8 federations,
- 4 the third-place teams from 1-4 federations,
- 32 teams from 1-20 federations being winners of eliminations,
- 32 teams from 21-55 federations being winners of eliminations.
Each team would play 5 matches in the groups, that is to say one match with each team on neutral venues.
Two teams from the each group would qualify to the 1/16 round. The teams from the first place would be seeded.
Matches in single-elimination tournament would be played as a two-legged tie.

Below you find exemplary groups based on my assumptions. I encourage you to discuss my proposal.

Group A: Real Madrid, Vitorul Constanta, Club Brugge, Lazio, Malmoe, Kukesi

Group B: Bayern, Copenhagen, Basaksehir, Arsenal, H. Beer Sheva, Dundalk

Group C: Chelsea, BATE, Viktoria Plzen, Cologne, Celtic, Zrinjski Mostar

Group D: Juventus, Legia, Young Boys, Villareal, APOEL, Samtredia

Group E: Monaco, Barcelona, Ajax, Soligorsk, Rosenborg, Spartaks

Group F: Spartak Moscow, Lipsk, AEK, Lyon, Qarabag, Vardar

Group G: Benfica, Tottenham, Austria Wien, Brondby, Ludogorets, Infonet

Group H: Szachtar, Roma, Dinamo Zagreb, Hertha Berlin, Budapest Honvest, Dudelang

Group I: Anderlecht, PSG, Sevilla, Jagiellonia, Astana, Alahskert

Group J: Besiktas, CSKA Moscow, Hoffenheim, Steaua Bucarest, Maribor, Buducnost Podgorica

Group K: Slavia Praha, Porto, Liverpool, Krasnodar, Marieham, Linfield

Group L: Basel, Dinamo Kijev, Atalanta, Guimares, Vaduz, Zalgris

Group M: Feyenoord, Atletico Madrid, Nice, Olimpia Doneck, Partizan, Hibernians

Group N: Olympiakos, Borussia Dortmund, Zenit, Manchester United, Tiraspol, The New Saints

Group O: Salzburg, Manchester City, Sporting Lisbon, Milan, Hafnarfjodur, Vikingur

Group P: Rijeka, Napoli, Zorya, Sociedad, Zilina, Europa

Author: erdinc
Date: 26-06-2017, 02:11

Although all the placement are mathematically correct and the access list is confirmed by Partizan_Belgrade, two things do not seem right to me at Europa League side of the access list.

Case 1 -------------------------------
The Q2 winners of League Route at UCL (NCQ2) continue at Q3 and the losers go to UEL - Q3.
The Q3 winners of League Route at UCL (NCQ3) continue at Q4 and the losers go to UEL - Group Stage.
The Q4 winners of League Route at UCL (NCQ4) continue at Group Stage and the losers go to UEL - Group Stage.

The thing which doesn't look right to me is "Why the Q3 Losers go to UEL - Group Stage and not to UEL - Q4?"

Case 2 -------------------------------
N6 clubs of the top four nations and N5 of the fifth nation start at UEL-Q2,

Why don't they start at UEL-Q3 or even at UEL-Q4?
If we examine the access list, it would be more correct graphically if they are moved up from UEL-Q2.

Since the list is confirmed, we have to live with it. I just wonder if anyone else also finds these two things not right like me.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 26-06-2017, 13:04

The first is strange for me also. Why have the champions still play in EL-Q4 if they lose in CL-Q3, while the runners-up get to skip EL-Q4.

The 2nd is very OK for me. The top 5 countries already have 2 direct eL-GS spots which is already 1 to many for me. So if their 3rd team would also get to start late in EL-Q that would be way to much. It will already get difficult for the other clubs in EL-Q to get to the GS, and if some teams would get directly in EL-Q4 a lot of other teams would have to start even earlier.
For me the 2nd EL teams from the top 5 should start in EL-Q4 already to give more other teams a chance to get to the GS.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: marnac Date: 27-06-2017, 18:27	Do I understand it right, that the new format is valid next year? In Champions League season 2018/19, there will be four italian teams?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 27-06-2017, 20:02	Yes, the top 4 countries (which includes Italy) will have 4 clubs in CL-GS in 2018/19.

Author: AK83
Date: 09-07-2017, 11:21

Another my proposal is a 64-team cup, which would be even better option. 64 teams would be drawn into 16 groups of 4 in the following way:
- 16 the first-place teams from 1-16 federations,
- 16 the second-place teams from 1-16 federations,
- 32 teams from 1-55 federations being winners of qualifications.

There would be 6 stages of the qualifications.
The "higher-place teams" would be seeded in the each stage. As an example, 8 the third-place teams from 1-8 federations, 8 the fourth-place teams from 1-8 federations, 8 the first-place teams from 17-24 federations, 8 the second-place teams from 17-24 federations would play only in the last stage and would be seeded.
The seeded team might play only against "the same- or lower place-team" i.e. the fourth place team from 1-8 federation might play against the fourth-place team from 9-16 federation or the fifth-place team from 1-8 federation.

Each team would play 6 matches in the group stage, that is to say a two-legged tie with each team.
Two teams from the each group would qualify to the 1/16 round. The first-place teams would be seeded.
Matches in the single-elimination tournament would be played as one match on a neutral venue.

Below you will find exemplary groups based on my assumptions. I assumed all seeded teams would qualify to the group stage. I encourage you to discuss my proposal.

Group A: Real Madrid, Dinamo Kijev, Lyon, Vitorul Constanta

Group B: Bayern, Porto, Krasnodar, Copenhagen

Group C: Chelsea, CSKA Moscow, Guimares, BATE

Group D: Juventus, PSG, Olimpik Donetsk, Legia

Group E: Monaco, Roma, Zorya, Malmoe

Group F: Spartak Moscow, Tottenham, Sporting, H. Beer Sheva

Group G: Benfica, Leipzig, Zenit, Celtic

Group H: Szachtar, Barcelona, Nice, APOEL

Group I: Anderlecht, Dinamo Zagreb, Napoli, Steaua Bucarest

Group J: Besiktas, Austria Wien, Manchester City, Broendby

Group K: Slavia Praha, AEK Athens, Borussia Dortmund, Soligorsk

Group L: Basel, Ajax, Atletico Madrid, Jagiellonia

Group M: Feyenoord, Young Boys, Sevilla, AIK Solna

Group N: Olympiakos, Viktoria Plzen, Hoffenheim, M. Tel Aviv

Group O: Salzburg, Basaksehir, Liverpool, Aberdeen

Group P: Rijeka, Club Brugge, Atalanta, AEK Larnaca

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Kroezero Date: 17-07-2017, 13:02	Does anyone know how UEFA is going to organise the new format? I think the teams from San Marino, Andorra, Kosovo will want to know, when their 2018/19 starts? Or do we have to wait untill the september meeting of the UEFA board?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: erdinc Date: 19-07-2017, 00:45	The season starts with the Super Cup according to UEFA. My guess - the changes and the new regulations may be announced after the Super Cup or at the beginning of Group Stage

Author: amirbachar
Date: 04-08-2017, 01:17
Edited by: amirbachar
at: 04-08-2017, 02:25

I would love to see an updated simulation, same as SteffenM
made in December 2016:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u_-1nS5UuX2AscK42Qp723uzHG97ec9zRm8RIXM
7W-g/edit#gid=0

Just to give a feeling what the change would probably mean, in the link above the last 8 seeds in the EL playoffs are not seeded anymore with the new access list (the Italian team is still seeded), which means that this year the seeding line would have been:

BATE Borisov @3 Bls 25.5
Legia Warsaw @3 Pol 24.5
-----------------------------------------
FK Krasnodar *3 Rus 22
Dinamo Zagreb *3 Cro 21

These teams wouldn't have been seeded:

FK Krasnodar *3 Rus
Everton *3 Eng
Olympique Marseille *3 Fra
Dinamo Zagreb *3 Cro
Maccabi Tel-Aviv * Isr
Austria Wien *3 Aut
FC Midtjylland * Den
Partizan Belgrade @3 Srb

So qualifying through this route becomes really tough, and a new team from any league including Spain, would probably be unseeded in this round.
(Bate would have 25.5 points with the new ranking system, so the new seeding line should be around this)

Author: amirbachar
Date: 05-08-2017, 22:40
Edited by: amirbachar
at: 05-08-2017, 22:44

Fixed analysis (with the help of nogomet):

Just to give a feeling what the change would probably mean, in the spreadsheet made by SteffenM in December 2016 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u_-1nS5UuX2AscK42Qp723uzHG97ec9zRm8RIX
M) the last 8 seeds in the EL playoffs are not seeded anymore with the new access list (the Italian team is still seeded). However we should remove the 5 seeded champions, since they would move to their own path, which means that this year the seeding line would have been.

Maccabi Tel-Aviv * Isr 19.5
Olympique Marseille *3 17
-----------------------------------------
Everton *3 Eng 15.192
Austria Wien *3 Aut 12
FC Midtjylland * Den 11.5

The last 3 teams are currently seeded, but wouldn't have been with the new system.
So qualifying through this path is indeed tougher for an unseeded, but probably not by much, since the average level of seeded teams won't be that much higher..

So qualifying through this route becomes really tough, and a new team from any league except Spain, would probably be unseeded in this round.

Author: Meister
Date: 09-08-2017, 15:57

Hello football people,
I made up an idea of a new format. My 3 big changes to the current format(s) are:

1) Introduce an additional Knock Out Round maybe called Exchange Round (XR) as a way to promote from the best Europa League (EL) to Champions League (CL), so we could take away the 4th direct access from top nations giving them a fair way to achieve an additional chance instead. I think that would increase the top leagues' interest in EL, too.

2) Reestablish the Cup Winners' Cup (CWC) with significant modifications. (Qualifyings -> Group Stage -> Final Rounds) It's not nostalgia (I was born in the early 90's) but I like the idea of a tournament with only one team from each association and domestic cups would be a nice way to elaborate the representative. Also cup winners would be rewarded for winning a domestic tournament and not mixed up with "ordinary" clubs in EL.

3) Reorganize qualifyings and widen EL-GS. I like the idea of a seperated 2nd chance path for every champion in ELQ like the 18-22 format. Due to the XRs I'd have no preliminary rounds (for sure not the way UEFA made up for next years) and it should be easier for clubs from lower ranked countries to reach at least EL-GS.

DETAILS

Winter break would be after Exchange Rounds. All current matchdays would be moved one round (=two matchdays) forward but to keep the time frame nearly the same as now, the Q1 legs should be played week/weekend, Q2 legs weekend/week and Q3 legs also week/weekend. Teams would have still time for regeneration between these rounds. The qualifying rounds will look like a real tournament.

CWC:
The idea is that clubs could gain a special trophy only by winning a domestic cup trophy. I suggest that also league cups (DLC) and super cups (DSC) could be considerd as access to CWC if the (main) domestic cup (DC) winners are qualified for CL and only if all winners the domestic cups are allowed to play CL, defeated finalists should be allowed to take part in CWC. So it would be nearly ensured that every country has one representative in CWC. Otherwise a association wouldn't have a club in CWC which leads to less teams (in CWC-Q).
(Access to CWC with priorities: 1=DC winners,2=DLC winners,3=DSC winners,4=DC finalists,5=DLC finalists,6=DSC finalists)

I'd like 8 groups of 4 teams (or 4 ones of 4) . The 1st and 2nd ranked ones each would play R16 (or QF) and so on, the 3rd ranked ones continue in EL-XR (or the best EL 3rd ranked ones instead).

CL:
CL-GS contains 8 groups of 4. Group winners directly qualify for R16 being seeded, 2nd ranked clubs will face the 8 best group winners from EL (unseeded) in CL-EX (that would put some more thrill into group stage - CL as well as EL), 3rd placed teams are transfered to EL-EX. Defeated teams from CL-EX will be relegated to EL-R32.

EL:
EL-GS contains 16 groups of 4. 8 Best winners -> CL-XR, the 8 other ones directly to EL-R32, 16 2nd placed teams continue in EL-XR, joined by 8 CL-GS-3rd and 8 CWC-GS-3rd (best EL-GS-3rd). The following round would be the same.

For the final Knock Out Rounds I would take the same schedule like the current format. I generally suggest wednesday and thursday for CWC matchdays.

I would give 3 bonus points for teams skipping Exchange Round because they miss two matches to collect points.

Qualifying Rounds:

CL: Champions path (6 berths): Q1-Q2-Q3-PO; League path (4 berths): Q2-Q3-PO
EL: League path: Q1-Q2-Q3-PO; 2nd Chance path (10+6 berths): Q2-Q3-PO
CWC: (Q1)-Q2-Q3-PO

I tend to give defeated teams from CWC-PO a chance in EL-GS but more berths for qualifyed teams or direct byes would be ok.

Furthermore I would give Cup Winners' Cup Winners (I like that one

) a opportunity to direct CL-GS access making the CWC more attractive for bigger clubs should they have to play here (The Gunners would this year) just like UEFA did with EL for recent years. So I suggest a single match (neutral ground) - CWC winners vs EL winners - as a sort of Super Cup semifinal. The winners would gain a GS berth and finally face the CL winners, the others would have to play PO non-champion path. So the match have to take place before the Play Off Rounds and drawing.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: luckyluke Date: 21-08-2017, 20:47	Hi everyone! Is there a deadline defined by UEFA regulations to introduce new CL and EL format for 2018/19 season?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: marnac Date: 22-08-2017, 21:17	If CL-titleholder already qualifies via league, how exactly the CL champions path will be balanced? And the EL champions path? If EL-titleholder already qualifies for CL group stage via league, how exactly the EL qualification (without champions) will be balanced?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 22-08-2017, 23:24
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 22-08-2017, 23:25

@marnac

If CL-titleholder already qualifies via league, how exactly the CL champions path will be balanced? And the EL champions path?

CH11 (Cze) will start in CL-GS, CL13 (Net) will start in CL-Q4, CL15 (Aus) will start in CL-Q3, CL18 (Den) will start in CL-Q2. This leave 1 open spot in CL-Q1, so in stead of 1 now 2 out of the CH52-55 can qualify for CL-Q1. Would make most sence to just have 1 round in CL-Q0 with 2 winners qualifying for CL-Q1.
In the EL-champions path this means there will only be 19 teams in EL-Q2, so 1 will have to get a bye there. Seems most logical this will be the CH of the highest ranked country.

If EL-titleholder already qualifies for CL group stage via league, how exactly the EL qualification (without champions) will be balanced?

In the CL-non champions path this means N3-5 (Fra) will start in CL-GS and N2-10&11 (Tur & Cze) start in CL-Q3.
So there will be 1 less loser from CL-Q2 entering in EL-Q3. This will mean CW18 (Den) will start in EL-Q3, CW25 (Nor) starts in EL-Q2 and CW50&51 (Wal & Far) start in EL-Q1.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Tricolores Date: 23-08-2017, 09:59	It looks like it will be much harder to get into the Europa League group stage for teams from medium-sized competitions like Belgium. Less teams end up qualifying trough "regular" qualifying rounds, while the opposition might be much stronger.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: hapoel_tel_aviv Date: 23-08-2017, 10:20 Edited by: hapoel_tel_aviv at: 23-08-2017, 10:22	israeli reporters claim that there is war between ECA and UEFA about play-off of champions league. ECA wants the play-off will be combined (8 teams from Q3 champions route and 4 teams from League route will get 6 places to CL-GS) and uefa wants the existing method (8 teams from Q3 champions get 4 places and 4 teams from CL-League get 2 places)

Author: Tricolores
Date: 23-08-2017, 10:49

Combine them? Why would they do that? To protect champions even less?
This whole reform is turning out to be a complete disgrace towards small football countries!
They know that champions like Hapoel Beer Sheva and Maribor don't stand a chance against runners up from Portugal and a third place team from France, they just want to turn the Champions League into their own private Super League. Disgusting!

Even more, this is technically not possible in the current EL qualifying format as well. It would require a big overhaul. There is a special path for champions dropping out of the Champions League qualifications in the EL qualifying stage as well.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: hapoel_tel_aviv Date: 23-08-2017, 11:06	"Even more, this is technically not possible in the current EL qualifying format as well. It would require a big overhaul. There is a special path for champions dropping out of the Champions League qualifications in the EL qualifying stage as well." its possible. only the play-off round will be combined.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Tricolores Date: 23-08-2017, 11:32	UEFA determines the rules, right? ECA can't ask for anything, just lobby?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: marnac Date: 23-08-2017, 17:03	@Forza-AZ thanks! One last question: If champion of league (10-)12 is also CW and N2 fails in NCQ2, who gets the spot in the EL group stage? N3 or even N2 and N3 has to play EL-Q3?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 23-08-2017, 19:44	Spots are always divided before the CL/EL QR's start, so it will be N3 that starts in EL-GS. N2 has the better slot, since they have a chance to get to the CL-GS.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: amirbachar Date: 24-08-2017, 00:28 Edited by: amirbachar at: 24-08-2017, 00:30	@hapoel_tel_aviv Can you please post a link to the article which said that there is a battle between UEFA and ECA? Is this coming from the discussion on Facebook after Hapoel Be'er Sheva's loss? I'm Israeli too BTW...

Re: new Champions League format
Author: erdinc Date: 24-08-2017, 19:55	As expected UEFA posted two old articles on the new cycle again after the group stage draw. Evolution of UEFA club competitions from 2018 Friday 26 August 2016 UEFA club competition format from 2018: Q&A Friday 26 August 2016

Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 28-10-2017, 09:18
Edited by: Cro_nogomet
at: 28-10-2017, 09:25

A Croatian website published the match calendar for the 2018/19 CL and EL season. I don't know what their source is.

Basically the CL preliminary round is a mini-tournament with one-match semifinals and a final played on 26 and 29 June 2018 respectively, while the EL preliminary round is a two-legged tie played on 28 June and 5 July.

Proper qualification rounds (CL and EL QR1) start on 10/11/12 July, which is two weeks later than this season, and then continue every week until the play-off rounds are finished on 28/29/30 August.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 28-10-2017, 09:37
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 28-10-2017, 09:44

Not really surprising these dates.

Allthough I wonder what will happen when 2 spots are available for the 4 clubs in the mini-tournament. Which is very likely since the CL-winner will most likely qualify for CL-GS already.
Will the prelimanary round be a 2 legged round for 2 spots, or still a 1 legged round in which the champion of Gibraltar is directly qualified for Q1 and the other 3 will play in 2 1-legged rounds for 1 spot, so SMa-Kos and then the winner versus And.

Author: jogggeli
Date: 28-10-2017, 15:35

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/files/2018-21-uefa-club-competitions.pdf

"The distribution to UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League clubs will be changed to a
four-pillar system, as follows:
o UEFA Champions League:
 25% starting fee (equal shares to all clubs in the group stage), 30% performance fee (based
on results in the group stage and qualification for the different knockout rounds), 15% market
pool and 30% club coefficient (based on the new coefficient system for the financial
distribution).
o UEFA Europa League:
 25% starting fee (equal shares to all clubs in the group stage), 30% performance fee (based
on results in the group stage and qualification for the different knockout rounds), 30% market
pool and 15% club coefficient (based on the new coefficient system for the financial
distribution)."

What a farce... while favouring the to big-to-fail clubs Bayern/Barca/Real (Still not getting how french, english and italian teams, especially Juve, could have agreed to this, if you look at the 10y-Ranking - their either plain stupid or the ploy of the Rummenigge/Real/Barca Crew was really elaborate. I suspect the former.

Even bigger farce... In Europa League the market-pool will still be a 30% share, which is favouring the Big-4 Leagues subpar-teams of which only one team has to go through qualificiation. Revenues for the big leagues more guaranteed than ever.

Moreover this leads to the Situation that a Newcomer Team like Leipzig(28.922 in 10Y from Germany), for example, will make more money than a Team like my FC Basel (114) when both are starting in EL because of the market-pool. If both started in CL, the tables would be turned, and Basel would make a lot more than Leipzig, which seems kind of odd to me.

Re: new Champions League format
Author: biagio Date: 31-10-2017, 06:36	reading the next season dates i see something different than usual. normally the europa league final is the wednesday 2 weeks after the semifinals, and the next week is the cl final on saturday. next year instead, the el final is 3 weeks after the semifinals, still on wednesday, and on saturday of the same week is cl final. that means 2 european finals in 4 days. never seen that.

Author: matt
Date: 01-11-2017, 14:32

I like the new dates of Cl and El qualifiers. Basically all countries will still have at least a team in early august.
However let's see if UEFA confirm it.

I guess the only difference with summer draws is that the Play-off draw for both competitions will be made after the first leg of the third qualifying round.
So if an unseeded team knock out a seeded one, it'd earn a seeded status for the Play-Off!

Re: new Champions League format
Author: djemba88 Date: 11-11-2017, 16:53	In the new Champions League the champions of the top seven associations based on 2017 UEFA country coefficients will remain top seeded in the Group stage draw?

Re: new Champions League format
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 21-12-2017, 13:57	Bert, just a minor correction on your calendar page. It seems that CL-Q3 return legs will all be played on August 14, given that August 15 is reserved for the UEFA Super Cup.