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Author: eye1
Date: 24-05-2015, 19:28

Probably this has been discussed earlier but I dont see such topic. The changes of access list and seeding in my opinion are in a very wrong way.
What's the point of having in pot 1 of draw the champions of countries 1-8 instead of team with higher coefficients? Why should Chelsea or Bayern can be drawn against Real or Atletico Madrid? Why PSV which should have been at pot 3 and have about 1/3 of Real's points to be seeded?
The other mistake is there is not balance in access list. It is too possible the EL holder will also earn the best EL spot at domestic league. This will have as result the 13th rank country cup winner ot be promoted to group stage. It is normal to have promotions at such cases but being promoted from Q3 to group stage it too much. It is 2 rounds promotion !! There used to be also balance between country participants and now this is lost and in some cases it is better for a club to finish lower in their league. Example are runners up of countries 10-13 which usually dont make it to CL group and need one qualification either at Q3 of CL or Q4 of EL to reach EL groups while cup winners or 3rd places clubs of such countries are already qualified !!

Re: Changes to wrong way
Author: putje Date: 24-05-2015, 19:41	In the PSV case it is quite simple: It is called a Champions League. PSV is a champion; Real Madrid this year not.

Re: Changes to wrong way
Author: AlanK Date: 24-05-2015, 19:46	@eye1: Many agree with you. Many do not. There's at least a chance that we'll get better GS matches in the CL with the change in Pots 1 and 2--as you suggest, Bayern-Real Madrid or Chelsea-Atlético, for example. This could make for some pretty good "groups of death" . . .

Re: Changes to wrong way
Author: Djisa Date: 24-05-2015, 22:29	I think is not fair. Maybe I agree that champions should be in pot 1, but it should be best ranked champions. For example, Basel instead of a Psv etc

Author: ththth10
Date: 25-05-2015, 22:51

The problem I have with this new approach is:

Countries 1-7 all over again...
Well, now countries 1-8.

This will only mean a few teams from England and Spain and Germamy will now end up in pot 2. So the difference for teams in pot 3 and pot 4 is actually pretty small...

This *CAN* be advantageous for teams for Netherlands and Russia and Ukraine.

I think UEFA should go further: place champions from countries 1-16 in pot 1 and pot 2!
And England, Germany and Spain should give up one Champions Leage spot.

So what I am trying to say: more champions from more countries.

I prefer to see champoins of let's say Romania and Bulgaria and Norway in Champions League instead of the number four (!) from England or Germany or Spain!

Re: Changes to wrong way
Author: luckyluke Date: 26-05-2015, 09:26 Edited by: luckyluke at: 26-05-2015, 09:26	well, if it is just about football than only champions should play CL. as we all know it is about money so champions from other countries are just necessary facade

Re: Changes to wrong way
Author: JPV Date: 26-05-2015, 13:51	Suppose Belgium would have been 8th this year (not totally unrealistic in 2016). Gent would be in pot 1 .

Author: ththth10
Date: 27-05-2015, 06:39
Edited by: ththth10
at: 27-05-2015, 06:40

Good to see Belgium team in CL.

But why champions of Switzerland, Austria and Czech Republic must play a qualification round? While number 4 (again: number FOUR!) of Spain can also be in CL?

UEFA really needs to change this!

I want to see champions of countries like Switzerland and Norway and Scotland and Sweden in group stage of CL. Much much much more interesting than having even another team from Spain or England.

When will UEFA finally wake up?

Source: Access List for 2015-2016
https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/access2015.html

Author: AlanK
Date: 27-05-2015, 15:31

The realities for UEFA are monetary. They can't satisfy everyone; what they have created is a tournament aimed at the widest fan interest possible. Which will be a better draw for fans in the stadium and for fans who pay to watch on television--the fourth teams of Spain, England, and Germany, or the first teams of . . . go down the list, starting as early as country #9? Those who want THEIR team in the GS need to ask themselves if they would pay to see the champion of (you fill in the name of the country which is not their own) play.
Several on this Forum have advocated a return to a pure KO system with essentially an open draw, similar to what existed back when I became a fan in the middle 1960s. We'll never go back there--it's not in the interest of the (most powerful) clubs; even the middle-tier clubs wanted a group series, so that they can plan accordingly for a certain minimum income IF they qualify for the GS.
Another idea that won't fly is that if this is called the "Champions League," only "champions" should play in it. The name is seductive and quite appealing, and when you come right down to it, ALL the champions get to play. But they can't all play in the GS, hence the qualifying rounds. The current switch in the makeup of Pot 1 gives lip service to the "all champions" idea. But this change probably will make almost no difference beyond giving us some better matchups in the GS's.
Well, anyway, that's my take. Will read others' opinions with interest.

Author: Cloakmaster
Date: 17-06-2015, 23:04

Actually, i don't dislike this not too much. See a few years ago with wolfsburg being german champion. sure they had - and still have a somewhat low coefficient. but still they were german champoion - and that should be worth something - and more than pot 3 or 4.

On the other hand i totally dislike the EL champin in CL, especially with 5 teams from one nation. That is an absolute no-go in my eyes.

The EL winner should be given the opportunity to defend their title - and so get a direct entry to EL-GS. If they qualify for CL by leage competiotion, they will play cl, of course. I see no reason to promote the EL winner to CL for winning the EL- , exept the all-time reason: Money. When they merged the cup winners cup, these "Champoins" were denied entry to the "Champions league" as well. the UCL is the league of league champions - and not one of cup winners.

Author: AlanK
Date: 18-06-2015, 15:04

@Cloakmaster:

I think the "EL winner to CL" is an attempt by the UEFA to increase the interest of the participating clubs in doing well in the EL. I like the idea of a meaningful prize for the EL winner. And, of course, in the realm of "enlightened self-interest," I'm very happy to have Sevilla in the CL this season.
World Soccer magazine recently published an opinion article about the crummy attitude of English teams toward the EL . . . I would have thought Tottenham woulda gone all out for the EL this past season, so maybe my idea of "increasing the interest of participating clubs" is all wet.
Just as an irrelevant aside, when the "Lex Liverpool" gave England five teams in the CL back in 2005-2006, Everton bombed out in the playoff round. If Valencia copies Everton, we'll be back to four teams in the CL GS. I "kinda" hope Valencia doesn't do that, of course . . .

Author: Cloakmaster
Date: 18-06-2015, 21:40
Edited by: Cloakmaster
at: 18-06-2015, 22:21

I still dont like it. If they want a more attraktive EL - make more interesiting teams take part in it. Limit the CL spots for any nation to a maximum of 3, and grant the top nations up to 5, maybe even 6 entries in EL -perhaps by playing groups of 5 in EL, having 60 teams in Group stage instead of 48. Yes, i don't really like groups of 5 either, it's awkward to play. So I wolnd not deny groups of 6 in EL, blowing up group stage to 72 participants. At least 36 of them cold be cup winners. Besides now even the top nation will have a valid interest in EL : they will need the masss of EL points to keep a good coefficient in the ranking.

And if that won't help, money will, as ussual. claim a prize money of, say, 25 mio € for the EL winner - and teams will want to get the pot...

Re: Changes to wrong way
Author: AlanK Date: 19-06-2015, 00:06	There you go--raise significantly the prize money for the EL. Sevilla is gonna get more for their participation in the CL GS, even if they lose every game, than they got for winning the EL in 2013-2014 (haven't seen figures on this past season yet).

Re: Changes to wrong way
Author: Cloakmaster Date: 19-06-2015, 00:12 Edited by: Cloakmaster at: 19-06-2015, 00:14	There you go: As i said before, the only reason for the EL winner to play CL is money - in the current distribution. Give at least the EL winner a significant pay rise - and the title holder would be more eager to defend their title in EL.. Especially if the was an extra prize for a Title holde who succeeds in that task - like Sevilla did twice, as you surely know.