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Author: hrishi
Date: 27-11-2013, 10:51

The tiebreaker rules for the group stages are given here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_UEFA_Champions_League_group_stage#
Tiebreakers

Three teams will be tied on 12 points if Dortmund and Napoli win.
If Napoli wins by a margin of two goals, Dortmund would win the group, and Arsenal would finish second. If Napoli wins by a margin of 3 goals, Dortmund and Napoli would go through in that order. A five goal victory would send Napoli and Dirtmund through (in that order). All these scenarios are decided on the second tie breaker of goal difference.

Now, if the Napoli Arsenal game ends 4-3 or higher(i.e. one goal Napoli victory with more than 7 total goals scored), the 2nd tiebreaker resolves the top two from the third, but does not separate the top two- Arsenal and Dortmund. To separate Arsenal and Dortmund, are tiebreakers 3 and 4 used (taking into account the results against Napoli) or does it start from tiebreaker 1 (using only the Arsenal Dortmund matches)?
The earlier method would give Arsenal the group and the latter method would give Dortmund the group.

PS: This question is valid for all one goal Napoli victories, but in case of a 1-0,2-1 or 3-2, both ways would hand Dortmund the group. A four goal victory for Napoli also results in a similar dilemma.

Author: hrishi
Date: 27-11-2013, 10:58

I know criterion 5) states:
'If, after applying criteria 1) to 4) to several teams, two teams still have an equal ranking, criteria 1) to 4) are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the two teams in question to determine their final rankings. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria 6) to 8) apply;'

Criteria 3)and 4) mention, rather ambiguously, '.... in matches between the teams in question.' My question is whether these teams are the same as the ones used in criteria 1) and 2), or are they teams yet to be resolved?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 27-11-2013, 11:11
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 27-11-2013, 11:14

All criteria are first applied to all teams that had equal points, so in this case for all matches between Arsenal/Napoli/Dortmund. Only when after applying these criteria 2 teams are still equal the head-to-head criteria apply to these 2 teams.

So in your example this would be the standings with a 4-3 for Napoli vs Arsenal:
all 12 points and then head-to-head
1.Arsenal 4-6 (7-6)
2.Dortmund 4-6 (6-5)
3.Napoli 4-6 (7-9)

Only with 3-2 for Napoli Arsenal and Dortmund are equal in head-to-head:
1.Arsenal 4-6 (6-5; 3 away goals)
1.Dortmund 4-6 (6-5; 3 away goals)
3.Napoli 4-6 (6-8)

Then the 2nd head-to-head decides it in the favour of Dortmund
1.Dortmund 2-3 (2-2; 2 away goals)
2.Arsenal 2-3 (2-2; 1 away goal)

So with Napoli-Arsenal 1-0, 2-1 and 3-2 Dortmund will be 1st, and with 4-3, 5-4 etc. Arsenal will be 1st.

Re: Permutations in Group F UCL 2013-14
Author: hrishi Date: 27-11-2013, 11:29	Thanks for that, Forza!