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Team points for excluded teams
Author: flob Date: 01-09-2013, 11:58	Question: Will Metalist, Fenerbahce, Besiktas get team points this season? Bert still has all 3 with the minimum points they would normally get, but I don't think UEFA will award those points, what do you think?

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: bert.kassies Date: 01-09-2013, 12:53	flob, but you do think that the matches these teams played count for the country coefficients?

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: flob Date: 01-09-2013, 13:06 Edited by: flob at: 01-09-2013, 13:13	Yes, I think matches played will count for the countries. But I'm not sure about the team points, that's why I asked.. (f.e. Fenerbahce won't play any matches in EL GS, still 2 team points for them, additionally for Apoel?)

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: simonk Date: 01-09-2013, 17:21	I think they will get these points because Volos also got these.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 02-09-2013, 09:05
Edited by: bert.kassies
at: 02-09-2013, 13:30

flob, I'm not sure either.

I think we need to distinguish two cases:

1) Besiktas played EL-Q4. This case is similar to Olympiakos Volou in 2011. Reaching this qualifying round under normal conditions gives a club 1.5 points. Is there any proof that Olympiakos Volou or other teams got these points while being banned?

2) Fenerbahce and Metalist played only in CL-Q3 or CL-Q4. My program already gives 1.5 and 2 points to teams reaching that stage, because losers go to EL. However, these two teams never played in EL. Note that the regulations say there are no qualification points for CL-Q3 and CL-Q4.

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 02-09-2013, 10:42	Note that the reulations say there are no qualification points for EL-Q3 and EL-Q4. You mean CL-Q3 and CL-Q4 of course.

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: bert.kassies Date: 02-09-2013, 13:31	Forza, of course. Fixed by editing original post.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 16-09-2013, 20:37

Today I extended (or fixed) my program for the calculation of the coefficients. Teams that are banned and only played in CL-Q3 or CL-Q4 will not get any individual qualification points. For this season that is true for Fenerbahce and Metalist.

uefa.com does also not give qualification points to Besiktas for playing in EL-Q4, but does give a qualification point to Olympiakos Volou in 2011 for playing in EL-Q3. That is inconsistent. So, unless there is proof of the opposite I will continue to give qualification points to teams that are banned after they played in qualification rounds other then CL-Q3 or CL-Q4.

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: winninglover Date: 17-09-2013, 07:38	That's mean metalist, fenerbache and besiktas will only receive the point earned by their country only

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: bert.kassies Date: 17-09-2013, 08:21	For Fenerbahce and Metalist, yes. But not Besiktas. They got their qualification points for the team ranking. See above.

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: luckyluke Date: 09-10-2013, 14:14	does anyone has a list of clubs from Berts ranking list which: - are forbidden to compete in CL or EL next season - do not exist any more thanks

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: executor Date: 10-10-2013, 16:03 Edited by: executor at: 10-10-2013, 16:11	I've asked Bert to mark the disbanded teams in some way, but he said he can't and it's a pity. For Romania: FC Timișoara and Unirea Urziceni are disbanded, while Rapid is under administration and, thus, cannot qualify for Eurocups. EDIT: Almost forgot: Oțelul Galați is also under administration. Guess the money from CL wasn't enough for a team running on a 5 mil euro yearly budget...

Author: AAA
Date: 27-11-2013, 21:05

@ bert:

As your’s and UEFA’s team rankings are still not sync for likely 2014/15 UEFA league contender Besiktas JK (33,900 vs 32,400) did you have the change to discuss this issue with UEFA authorities (IMO: If neither Fenerbahce nor Metalist had earned qualification points this its reasonable that same go for also banned Besiktas, regardless what was done two years ago in Olympiakos Volou case)?

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: bert.kassies Date: 27-11-2013, 22:49	@AAA Did you observe the difference between Besiktas and the other two teams above? Fenerbahce and Metalist only played in rounds without any qualification points. No, I did not discuss it with uefa.

Author: AAA
Date: 28-11-2013, 04:08

First and foremost:
You offer a fantastic service which I very often use as many fans do.
As I have no in-depth knowledge about every aspects of UEFA’s rule and regulations, I take it for granted that UEFA’s official clubs coefficients 2013/14 (http://tinyurl.com/6l5zmq7) is the one who will be used next season (I am under the impression that Olympiacos Volou FC was banned during 2011/12 season while CAS upholds Besiktas FK ban). Further, I am positive that UEFA don’t see a flaw in her own work, their point of view is that banned clubs don’t earn individual points for matches they played. The reason why I added my 2 cents: It would be fine, if your list is in sync with UEFA’s.

To your question:
Yes, I am aware of the differences: According to UEFA’s rulebook (p 47) clubs eliminated 3rd CL QR don’t earn points because they move into EL Play offs. Clubs eliminated in EL play offs earn 1.5 points, while clubs eliminated in 2nd CL QR earn one point.

FWIW: I sent a query to UEFA and asked why banned Besiktas FK didn’t team points in 2013/14 while banned Olympiacos Volou FC earned team points in 2011/12.

Re: Team points for excluded teams
Author: bert.kassies Date: 28-11-2013, 22:42	Thanks for your reply. In the end you may be right, and the longer it is on uefa.com the more probable it becomes.