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Author: itai
Date: 30-07-2013, 22:56
| hi guys,
glad to be among people that appreciate the great Bert's job here.
what do you think about this 2 issues in the draws:
1) 5 minutes before the draw starts, you know which 5-6 teams your team can get ,
how actually they deciding which teams will be in your team's group draw? it's a little bit stink... don't you think that?
2)in the draw, instead of pulling team by team of the Pots, they decided to give every team a number in every group, and than they make a draw for the numbers, instead of the teams.
i found it less enthusiastic than pulling the name of my team from the pot.
i guess i will have to wait my team qualify to the next levels to see it happend. |
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Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 30-07-2013, 23:09
| 1) I assume it is just some kind of draw (most likely with the computer) in which clubs from the same country are put into different draw groups. But the exact procedure is only known by UEFA.
2) I agree completely. The draws for EL Q1-Q4 are not fun to watch this way. Only advantage is that they don't take to long any more. |
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Author: yanivbm88
Date: 31-07-2013, 15:18
Edited by: yanivbm88
at: 01-08-2013, 00:10 | 1)I think the main goal of the groups is to divide regionally(in early rounds).
2)My problem with the numbers draw, is that it is unbalanced about seeded & unseeded home and away order. Like in the last Europa league 3rd round draw, 22 of 28 unseeded teams host the first game (and it was pretty much the same in the playoffs last year) . However, this can easily be fixed by randomizing the numbers, like in half of the groups 1-6 will be the seeded teams and on the other groups 1-6 will be the unseeded teams. But probably uefa prefers it this way..(less irrelevant games when unseeded teams host first) |
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Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 31-07-2013, 16:48
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 31-07-2013, 16:49 | The high number of seeded teams playing away in the 1st leg has nothing to do with the numbers, but with a lack of mixing in the central bowl.
Because with the numbers it can just as likely be the case that much more unseeded teams play away in the 1st leg.
The statistical imbalance is however enlarged because for every single draw multiple matches are determined. |
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Author: simonk
Date: 31-07-2013, 21:37
| When you look at one singe tie, the match sequence is random. But I think it doesn't really matter how the balance is. What difference does it make? |
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Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 31-07-2013, 23:04
| Well, let's say you have 40 ties like in ELQ2. If you draw all 40 matches seperately it's statistically very unlikely you draw 35 out of 40 seeded teams at home first.
If you however only draw 8 times (which are for 5 matches at once each) it's more likely you draw 7 out of 8.
In general: With a smaller amount of draws you get extreme draws more easy then with a bigger amount of draws. |
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Author: PnavE_81
Date: 01-08-2013, 00:06
| true, but for each individual match the likelihood of starting at home first or starting away first are the same. Does it matter that almost all seeded teams start at home? an "extreme" draw with almost all seeds at home is just as likely as an extreme draw with almost all seeds away first. |
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Author: yanivbm88
Date: 01-08-2013, 00:08
| @simonk
Its still kinda feels wrong, because this could never happen in an original draw.
@Forza-AZ
With the suggestion i mentioned, you get 50-50 division guaranteed, then why uefa doesn't do this? They were smart enough to randomize the numbers in each group(1 isn't necessarily the strongest team, 6 isn't the weakest etc..) so why not randomizing home & away order too? So far a draw when most of the seeded teams host first never happened(besides first round when the differences between teams are small).and until i'll see the statistics getting straight, I'll be suspicious. |
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Author: bert.kassies
Date: 01-08-2013, 08:34
| yanivbm88 said: So far a draw when most of the seeded teams host first never happened(besides first round when the differences between teams are small)
It happened at least twice in the draw for Q2:
this year (10 vs 5), (1 vs 6), (3 vs 7), (4 vs 9), and (8 vs 2), and
last year (10 vs 5), (1 vs 8), (3 vs 9), (4 vs 6), and (7 vs 2). |
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Author: yanivbm88
Date: 01-08-2013, 09:03
| @bert
But a draw when much more seeded teams (like at least 4 groups out of 5, or 5 out of 6) host first never happend yet. |
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Author: JPV
Date: 01-08-2013, 11:17
| why wouldn't it have happened?
2009/2010, 3th qualifying round CL (non-champions route)
Sparta Praha Cze Panathinaikos Gre 3-1 0-3
Shakhtar Donetsk Ukr FC Timisoara Rom 2-2 0-0
Sporting CP Lisbon Por FC Twente Enschede Ned 0-0 1-1
Celtic Sco Dinamo Moscow Rus 0-1 2-0
Anderlecht Bel Sivasspor Tur 5-0 1-3
Anderlecht, Celtic, Sporting & Donetsk were seeded, Sparta Praha was the highest unseeded, i guess.
Idem in 2011/2012:
Standard Liège Bel FC Zürich Sui 1-1 0-1
FC Twente Enschede Ned FC Vaslui Rom 2-0 0-0
Benfica Por Trabzonspor Tur 2-0 1-1
Dinamo Kiev Ukr Rubin Kazan Rus 0-2 1-2
OB Odense Den Panathinaikos Gre 1-1 4-3 |
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