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| "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: Oldelpaso
Date: 20-07-2013, 13:39 | When the draw for the Champions League group stage is made, certain teams are separated so they don't play on the same day, in addition to the seeding pots. Presumably because this is what the TV companies want, or because it makes more money. So we have Barcelona and Real Madrid always playing on different days, 2 English teams on each day etc. Are these "red" and "blue" pairings known beforehand? I remember last year's draw when there were about 3 teams left in pot 4, it was already known that Borussia Dortmund would complete a group of death, as it was predetermined that the others (one was Nordsjaelland, the other was maybe BATE or Cluj) could not go in that group. Is it possible to know a list of these teams a club cannot meet, or does it only become clear as the draw develops? |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: nemesys
Date: 20-07-2013, 14:11 | @Oldelpaso Presumably because this is what the TV companies want Correct. But it is not just this. It is also about the stadium (some clubs share the stadium). And also, to don't have possible 4 clubs from the same country (Eng, Spa, Ger) playing the same night (better two today in groups AD, and two tomorrow in groups EH). Are these "red" and "blue" pairings known beforehand? Yes, if you look for the info. As you say if Barca and Real are there, they usually are paired. But this year also Atletico is there. I'm pretty confident for Italy Juventus and AC Milan (if qualifies) will be in a different half of groups. If Inter was there too, I would instead expect AC Milan to be paired with Inter. England instead is sometimes a bit surprising: IIRC last year the pairings were Manchester United with Chelsea; and Manchester City with Arsenal. This instead of pairing the clubs from Manchester, and as well the ones from London. Disclaimer: all this is AFAIK. Someone else could be more correct and precise. Cheers!  - nemesys |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: viulo
Date: 20-07-2013, 15:36 | Last year in Monaco there was information about the pairings before the draw. And as far as I can remember the reason is exclusively tv. It's true UEFA avoids matches on the same day in the same city, but they do so also with consecutive days, and that is achieved with the calendar and the position of a club inside a group, not with group itself and if it's red or blue. |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: nemesys
Date: 20-07-2013, 16:01 | @viulo Yes, you are correct. What I was trying to say it is that pairing the clubs you also obtain the splitting of the games of the clubs from the same country between Tuesday and Wednesday: 2 Tue and 2 Wen with 4 clubs, 2 (or 1) Tue and 1 (or 2) Wen with 3 clubs, 1 Tue and 1 Wen with 2 clubs. Call it a consequence if you like it, call it a TV request if you like it, but still this is a feature obtained only because of the draws pairings. This because always, in every week of CL, groups ABCD play a day (Tue or Wen), groups EFGH the other day. Without pairings, say for England for example, you could have a draw with Manchester United in group A, Manchester City in group B, Arsenal in group C and Chelsea in group D, hence all four clubs playing the same day, even if all in different groups. The same with say Ukraine for example: with pairing you have Shakthar Donetsk playing a day in groups AD (or EH), and Dinamo Kyiv playing the other in groups EH (or AD). Cheers! - nemesys |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: simonk
Date: 24-07-2013, 00:49 | Last year I didn't know which clubs were paired in CL and EL draws. How can I find out the pairings before the draws this year? |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: nemesys
Date: 24-07-2013, 18:33 | @simonk Uefa, somewhere on its site, will likely publish them. Here, on Bert's pages, this forum, or forum 2, I guess someone will post the info as soon as it is known. I'm not assuring you anything, just trying to help. Cheers! - nemesys |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 24-07-2013, 19:26 | I don't think the pairings are listed anywhere, so for countries with 3 or 4 teams in a groupstage it's just guessing which 2 teams are paired. |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 24-07-2013, 21:02 | A few times in the past the pairings were published before the draw, e.g. in 2007 and 2001. |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: nemesys
Date: 26-07-2013, 06:57 | @bert.kassies, Forza-AZ Weird... I think to remember that I knew the pairing for the top ranked countries before the last CL draw.  However, I rest my case, you have a way better knowledge than me on the Uefa issues, so likely it's me to remember wrong. - nemesys |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: spoonman
Date: 26-07-2013, 23:43 Edited by: spoonman at: 26-07-2013, 23:44 | I think the pairings for England and France are the hardest to predict. As far as I know, Man Utd gets the highest TV ratings in England but who comes second nowadays? Chelsea? In France, Marseille traditionally had high ratings, so they could be paired with PSG? The other pairings are fairly easy to predict: Bayern x Dortmund -----> Leverkusen x Schalke Barca x Real -----> Atlético x Real Sociedad Porto x Benfica -----> Pacos de Ferreira not paired Milan x Juve -----> Napoli not paired CSKA x Zenit Ajax x PSV Shakhtar x Metalist Olympiakos x PAOK Galatasaray x Fenerbahce Anderlecht x Zulte Waregem Kobenhavn x Nordsjaelland Basel x Grasshoppers Austria x Salzburg |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: Todor
Date: 28-07-2013, 11:16 | Spain is the easiest to predict. Real can't play at the same night with either Atletico or Barca, so the pairs will be Real + Sociedad versus Barca + Atletico. For Germany I'm almost sure Dortmund and Schalke will be in different groups, so that they won't play together (although last year they were in one group), which makes the pairings Bayern+Schalke versus Dortmund+Leverkusen In England one thing is sure: United and City will be in different groups, just like Chelsea and Arsenal. If I'm not mistaken Chelsea have the smallest fanbase of the four, so it's logical to pair them with United against Arsenal and City, just like last year. The unknown for Portugal and Italy is which groups Pasos and Napoli will be allocated in, whilst France is a complete mistery. |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: spoonman
Date: 28-07-2013, 12:06 | @Todor: Real can't play at the same night with either Atletico or Barca, so the pairs will be Real + Sociedad versus Barca + Atletico. It doesn't work that way. A pairing consists of two club that don't play on the same night, not the other way round. Same-city clashes are usually avoided through the match schedule (team A plays at home, team B plays away), not through pairings. |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: alexmorgan
Date: 28-07-2013, 13:04 Edited by: alexmorgan at: 28-07-2013, 13:05 | Manchester United and City are not always "paired". Likewise with Arsenal and Chelsea. See the 2011/12 Champions League, where both Manchester clubs were in Groups A & C, whilst both London clubs were in groups E & F. The computer ensure that neither club from the same city played at home on the same matchday. In that case, the pairings were: Manchester United & Chelsea; Arsenal and Manchester City. But given Manchester Utd and City finished 1st and 2nd last season, they both will be paired this year. And for Spain, Real Madrid and Barcelona are always pair. So that means Real Madrid can play on the same night as Atletico Madrid. See 2009/10. In that case, the computer ensured that if Real was at home, Atletico played away. |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: Judio1999
Date: 29-07-2013, 13:29 | English TV always picked Man U and Liverpool as the two sides to show The other two never got a look in Since Liverpool have dropped out of Top 4 it has been harder to predict which the 2 Big clubs are I agree that this year it will be Man U and Man C but in previous year it was Man U and Arsenal BUT Now Mourinho is back at Chelsea ITV may put them higher up ??? |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: nemesys
Date: 29-07-2013, 14:04 | Let's (try to) make it simple. FOUR CLUBS There is 1, 2, 3 and 4. Say 1 and 3 (odds) are paired. Say 2 and 4 (even) are paired. If 1 is Red (groups ABCD), 3 is Blue (groups EFGH). Before the draw, 1 can be either Red or Blue. And 3 as well. In the draw, if 1 is picked before 3, 1 will decide the destiny of 3. In the draw, if 3 is picked before 1, 3 will decide the destiny of 1. In no case, 2 or 4 will decide the destiny of 1 and 3. Which means, 1 could play the same day of 2, or the same day of 4. As for the pairing 1 and 3, the same apply for the pairing 2 and 4. At the end, you have two clubs Red (groups ABCD) and two Blue (groups EFGH). THREE CLUBS Only one pairing: 1 and 3 (odds). 2 is alone. If 1 is Red (groups ABCD), 3 is Blue (groups EFGH). Before the draw, 1 can be either Red or Blue. And 3 as well. In the draw, if 1 is picked before 3, 1 will decide the destiny of 3. In the draw, if 3 is picked before 1, 3 will decide the destiny of 1. In no case, 1 or 3 will decide the destiny of 2. In no case, 2 will decide the destiny of 1 and 3. Which means, 2 could play the same day of 1, or the same day of 3. At the end, you have one club Red (groups ABCD), one Blue (groups EFGH), and the third unpaired club which can be either Red or Blue. TWO CLUBS Only one pairing: 1 and 2. If 1 is Red (groups ABCD), 2 is Blue (groups EFGH). Before the draw, 1 can be either Red or Blue. And 2 as well. In the draw, if 1 is picked before 2, 1 will decide the destiny of 2. In the draw, if 2 is picked before 1, 2 will decide the destiny of 1. At the end, you have one club Red (groups ABCD) and one Blue (groups EFGH). Please point out any possible error. --- As it was already correctly pointed out answering on my first reply, pairing it is not about playing in the same city, since this issue is faced in the scheduling (Calendar of H/A Fixtures) phase: for example, if Atletico plays home this week, Real plays away, no matter if being Red or Blue. Said that the pairing don't follow any "sportive" logic, and it is just a "strategical" choice about which clubs are better to don't play the same night. Now back to the opening post question: As @viulo Last year in Monaco there was information about the pairings before the draw. I think I remember I knew (by the media) the pairings already before the draw last year. So I'm a little confused about @Bert and @Forza-AZ positions, and I wonder now if it could be an information that, even if not by Uefa, TVs them-self decide to tell locally. So I'd like to know (simple curiosity) if someone else from Germany, England, Spain, Italy, ... can confirm remembering that the CL pairings were known (or were not) last season few hours before the draw. It would be welcome! Thanks to anyone could help.  Cheers! - nemesys |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: nemesys
Date: 29-07-2013, 14:10 Edited by: nemesys at: 29-07-2013, 14:10 | @Judio1999 but in previous year it was Man U and Arsenal Wasn't Manchester United and Chelsea last season? Or my brain is getting so bad remembering things from the past? Cheers! - nemesys |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: alexmorgan
Date: 29-07-2013, 15:47 Edited by: alexmorgan at: 29-07-2013, 15:57 | Wasn't Manchester United and Chelsea last season? Nope - Chelsea was in group E, Manchester United in group H At the draw last year... Chelsea was the first english team drawn, and only 3 groups left : B, E & H. They were drawn in E. Next was Manchester United, and they were automatically placed into H. Afterwards, Arsenal was placed into B. Hence, Chelsea and Arsenal were paired |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: viulo
Date: 08-08-2013, 21:04 | Quote: As @viulo Last year in Monaco there was information about the pairings before the draw. I think I remember I knew (by the media) the pairings already before the draw last year. So I'm a little confused about @Bert and @Forza-AZ positions, and I wonder now if it could be an information that, even if not by Uefa, TVs them-self decide to tell locally. So I'd like to know (simple curiosity) if someone else from Germany, England, Spain, Italy, ... can confirm remembering that the CL pairings were known (or were not) last season few hours before the draw. It would be welcome! I was at Monaco last year, working the draw, and UEFA gave that information to the journalists present, in a press release hours before the draw (same with Europa League). I don't think they posted the information online, though. |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: alexmorgan
Date: 08-08-2013, 21:41 | Im in england and have been following draws since 2003..... And I have never known the pairings before the draw. |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 08-08-2013, 21:51 | When I said that I remember just a few times (2001 en 2007) that the pairings were published before the draw, then I mean published online before the draw together with the pots with clubs. It is quite possible that the pairings are available in the documents provided to the clubs and the media just before the draw. |
| Re: "red" and "blue" in CL group draw | |
| Author: nemesys
Date: 10-08-2013, 12:52 | @alexmorgan Hence, Chelsea and Arsenal were paired Yep, sorry, my bad. You are of course correct. Thanks! (I remembered the two clubs from Manchester and the two from London NOT being paired! So, either I'm confusing the last season draw with the previous season one, or my memory is really getting pretty inefficient). Some related discussions from last year archive: https://kassiesa.net/uefa/forum/view.php?archive=2012&topic=20120901115141.xml https://kassiesa.net/uefa/forum/view.php?archive=2012&topic=20120830192619.xml --- @bert, viulo, alexmorgan It is quite possible that the pairings are available in the documents provided to the clubs and the media just before the draw. I was at Monaco last year, working the draw, and UEFA gave that information to the journalists present, in a press release hours before the draw (same with Europa League). I have never known the pairings before the draw. Thanks. Appreciated. --- Cheers! - nemesys |