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Author: vkgz
Date: 10-06-2013, 16:38
Edited by: vkgz
at: 10-06-2013, 16:46

Fenerbahce, Besiktas, Steaua Bucuresti

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UEFA has today opened disciplinary proceedings in relation to FC Steaua Bucureţti (Romania) and Beţiktaţ JK (Turkey). The UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body will now review each of these cases before communicating its decisions.

Proceedings have been opened against Steaua Bucureţti on the basis of articles 2.04.g), 2.05 and 2.10 of the 2013/14 UEFA Champions League regulations, relating to the admission criteria for participation in UEFA competitions.

Proceedings have also been opened against Beţiktaţ and two club officials in relation to match-fixing activities which are alleged to have taken place during the 2011 Turkish Cup final.

Both cases will be heard by the UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body on Friday 21 June 2013 at the House of European Football in Nyon, Switzerland.

Furthermore, following the investigation into alleged match-fixing activities involving Fenerbahçe SK (Turkey), the UEFA Disciplinary Inspector has now submitted his findings to the Control and Disciplinary Body, in the context of disciplinary proceedings against this club and five club officials.

This case will be heard by the UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body on Saturday 22 June 2013 at the House of European Football in Nyon, Switzerland.

All hearings will be closed to media, and no access to the UEFA premises will be granted during the proceedings.

The decisions of the UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body will be communicated in the course of the week starting 24 June.

Author: bossake1
Date: 10-06-2013, 17:12
Edited by: bossake1
at: 10-06-2013, 17:17

In Steaua case the things are very simple. Steaua owner send 1.7 Mil Euros from his own money (not money of the club - if this has any importance) before the last round U cluj - Cfr Cluj. The score was 0-1 so the money hasnt been used (U cluj needed to get a draw to take the money) but Romanian police confiscated them, even as I said money didnt been used.

Romanian Court decided this is corruption!

In other countries I heared this type of things are legal. Please someone confirm this. Even Romanian court decided this was coruption I dont think Uefa can let a team from Spain do that (I heared that in Spain and Germany this things happens in the last rounds!) and exclude a team from Romania for the SAME thing. I am wrong??

Author: MudHen
Date: 10-06-2013, 17:40

Just because teams in other countries do it doesn't necessarily mean it is legal. And even it is not illegal in Spain, if it is illegal in Romania, they have to pay for breaking the civil/penal laws of their country. It's kind of the same discussion as with wages: why do Spanish clubs have to pay 50% tax, while clubs from other countries pay way less? On the other hand, it doesn't matter CFR won the game. The intention was there, people talked about it and came to an agreement concerning an act of corruption.

Author: executor
Date: 10-06-2013, 18:45
Edited by: executor
at: 10-06-2013, 18:45

MudHen: The intention was there, people talked about it and came to an agreement concerning an act of corruption.

Well, here is the problem. The word corruption is wrongly used. Steaua's owner did broke the sporting laws which forbade rewarding of other teams, but can this really be labeled as corruption?

However, I think the situation is getting worse for Steaua. I really feel UEFA wants to show respect to institutions (at least in their speeches) and I am starting to doubt that they will come and say something like "We doubt this is corruption" as that would mean doubting the Romanian High Court, which would be a natural thing, but this is not what UEFA wants to communicate. So, the labeling of this case as corruption might be the factor that proves decissive.

My question is: since the decision will come after the draws on June 24th when all our teams are involved, will it mean that, if Steaua is excluded, then Pandurii will be sent (against their will) in CL, but no replacement will come in their place? And our coefficient will still be divided by 4?

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 10-06-2013, 19:27	UEFA could make the draw with provisional names of the Romanian clubs, and when the decision on Steaua is made well before the 1st legs on QR1 then teams can still be changed (Astra moved into Pandurii's place, Pandurii in Steaua's place and Vaslui as new team in EL Q1).

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: bossake1 Date: 10-06-2013, 19:49	Problem is that Steaua is seeded and Pandurii wont be seeded. Also I am afraid that if Steaua will be excluded no team from Romania will take their place.

Author: retroactive
Date: 10-06-2013, 20:17

I think UEFA should apply the same sanctioning conditions for all the teams, because it concern the access in the same competition. Leaving aside, the different taxes flawed analogy, we speak here about the disciplinary regulation and UEFA should define clearly what corruption means, preferably without using Steaua a s test subject.

At one of the quoted articles, they specify the involvement in any anyway in influencing a result ... can also refer to the fans in the stadium, that can influence at least indirectly the result of a match ... i didn't saw any team excluded for that, should they? My point: The regulation is very vague and it is contingent on the discernment of the judge.

Then ... despite of what people think, giving or promising money to win a match is very legal, in Romania too (and i'm guessing in all the EU, because it covers a series of civil contracts), covered by art. 1328 from Romanian Civil Code. The fact that 1/3 courts sayed the contrary, using subjective arguments (whic w don't know because their decision wasn't motivated to date), other than law itself, that doesn't produce effects in changing the respective law, or the legality of the action itself.

So, my second point is this: UEFA shouldn't blindly abide by an unmotivated decision, but should have its own decision process (i know they have) and should also consider the laws from the respective country and the context (*), not only this decision, which will most likely be revised after CEDO has is saying. My question is this ... we cannot attack the decision at CEDO, because without the motivation it is not definitive only executable, how can UEFA base its decision on an unmotivated domestic decision, one which we cannot defend against, yet (be assured that they will not motivate it until UEFA make its decision, they play a bluff)?

Secondly ... we have been already sanctioned ... deducted and fined in 2008, internally for breaking the sportive regulation, excluding us now after 5 it doesn't really make much sense. UEFA knew the facts (very public case), they could have started an investigation by know ... i check their regulations, they don't NEED an common court's decision, they can start an investigation on their own, so why NOW? Possibly because we are seeded all the way through CLQRs and no other Romanian team is? Still i hope for a good judgement and reason, because we stand to lose a lot of money and in no we we did something to required this prejudice from us. But the more realistic in me, knows exactly what UEFA is and what it does: they steal from the poor and give to the rich, so ... either way, i'm not surprised by anything at this point!

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 10-06-2013, 20:38

UEFA just checks these cases against the UEFA regulations. It has nothing to do with domestic law.

UEFA states: "Proceedings have been opened against Steaua Bucuresti on the basis of Articles 2.04.g), 2.05 and 2.10 of the 2013/14 UEFA Champions League Regulations, regarding the admission criteria for participation in UEFA competitions.

The corresponding articles are:

2.04 To be eligible to participate in the competition, a club must fulfil the following criteria:
g) it must not have been directly and/or indirectly involved, since the entry into force of Article 50(3) of the UEFA Statutes, i.e. 27 April 2007, in any activity aimed at arranging or influencing the outcome of a match at national or international level and must confirm this to the UEFA administration in writing.

2.05 If, on the basis of all the factual circumstances and information available to UEFA, UEFA concludes to its comfortable satisfaction that a club has been directly and/or indirectly involved, since the entry into force of Article 50(3) of the UEFA Statutes, i.e. 27 April 2007, in any activity aimed at arranging or influencing the outcome of a match at national or international level, UEFA will declare such club ineligible to participate in the competition. Such ineligibility is effective only for one football season. When taking its decision, UEFA can rely on, but is not bound by, a decision of a national or international sporting body, arbitral tribunal or state court. UEFA can refrain from declaring a club ineligible to participate in the competition if UEFA is comfortably satisfied that the impact of a decision taken in connection with the same factual circumstances by a national or international sporting body, arbitral tribunal or state court has already had the effect to prevent that club from participating in a UEFA club competition

2.10 If there is any doubt as to whether a club fulfils other admission criteria than those defined in paragraphs 2.04c) and 2.04d), the UEFA General Secretary refers the case to the UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body, which decides without delay upon the admission in accordance with the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations. UEFA may carry out investigations at any time (even after the end of the competition) to ensure that these other criteria are or have been met until the end of the competition; if such an investigation reveals that one of these other criteria is or was no longer met in the course of the competition, the club concerned is liable to disciplinary measures in accordance with the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations.

Author: retroactive
Date: 10-06-2013, 21:20
Edited by: retroactive
at: 10-06-2013, 21:24

If so ... they should have done this already. This regulation in effect from 2007, these events happened in spring of 2008, we have a 5 years gap here, in which nothing happened, except this last decision (released very smartly to be taken into account by UEFA licensing board).

Secondly, the regulation is bad! It should specify clearly that it refers to influencing (=changing) the natural state of competition and of one match, not complement it ... because not all people understand that you cannot influence something that is already there like an 'object of activity' and no matter what prize you offer, the 'object of activity' remains absolutely the same ... so we cannot speak legally of influence in this case, only subjectively.

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: paul7 Date: 10-06-2013, 21:58	Besiktas and Steaua must be banned.Corruption is all over football.and to ban for at least 5 years.to be a lesson for all the clubs.

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: edinson Date: 11-06-2013, 00:09	@Forza A-Z A similar case in which a team was excluded even if the playing in the preliminary stages. http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/disciplinary/news/news id=1658759.html http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/disciplinary/news/news id=1659221.html

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: bossake1 Date: 11-06-2013, 01:31	@paul, I think you cannot even put in same phrase Steaua and Besiktas. The cases are incredible different, besiktas tried to BUY a match, they contacted an oppenent player and had tried to influence this player to play BADLY against THEM. Steaua offered money for a team to WIN a game. Steaua stimulated the football, the performance, the competition.

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: bugylibicska Date: 11-06-2013, 03:47	``Proceedings have also been opened against Steaua Bucharest after their owner Gigi Becali was jailed for three years for offering a cash bribe to rival players to a throw a match.`` I`ve just read on the internet. That`s not the same as offering cash to a team to beat the rivals.

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: executor Date: 11-06-2013, 07:35	@bugylibicska I have no idea where you read that, but I can assure you that's way off the truth, it's more like hearsay. Maybe there were such cases, in which Becali bought players of opposing teams (I know many suspicious games), but it's not the case here. Maybe you can provide the source?

Author: MudHen
Date: 11-06-2013, 08:12

@bert UEFA just checks these cases against the UEFA regulations. It has nothing to do with domestic law.

Both Steaua and Fener cases were open only after the teams (well, people linked to them) were sentenced in court. The press says UEFA has already asked Steaua for their POV and it may even lead straight to a verdict, as long as UEFA thinks a live hearing is not necessary. Personally, I believe Steaua don't have a case at all or at least they are going at it the wrong way. Their strongest alibi seams to be that CFR won the game and it didn't affect the standings. And that's just wrong.

@executor The word corruption is wrongly used. Steaua's owner did broke the sporting laws which forbade rewarding of other teams, but can this really be labeled as corruption?

This is what Platini also wants to be changed: the perception that sport is a different branch of the economy and it should be treated differently. Personally, I don't agree with that, since sport is one of the fields that has lots of money involved. They tried to alter the outcome of an event by bribing some folks and that is illegal.

On the other hand, if UEFA don't make their decision prior to the draw, i agree with bossake1 that Romania will have no team in CL. If Pandurii are put in Steaua's place after the draw is made, they will be very glad, trust me. Why wouldn't they be? They will play a poor team in CLQR2, prbably loose in CLQR# and get to the ELPO reound. If they start in EL, they will be unseeded as soon as ELQR3, so that would be an improvement.

Author: executor
Date: 11-06-2013, 09:32

@Mudhen

I agree with you that Steaua's "defence", i.e. "No harm was done in the end" is plain stupid, as the attempt is also punishable. This is the work of their "mastermind", MM. What else to expect of him?

However, when you say "they tried to alter the outcome of a game", do you consider the case when a team might be inclined to throw a game and someone offers them money not to do it? Is this considered "altering" the outcome of that game?

I think that, if Steaua is banned, it will be because they won't know how to defend. And, IMO, it won't be a fair solution.

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: erdinc Date: 11-06-2013, 11:42	News from a Turkish newspaper this morning Besiktas will be banned from the cups for 1 year and Fenerbahçe for 2 years. One of the Disiplinary Committee member (Fernandez Palacios) completed his investigations and asked both clubs and several people penalized. Besiktas case will be on 21st and Fenerbahçe's on 22nd in Nyon. The decision will be made at 24th-30th of this month.

Author: MudHen
Date: 11-06-2013, 13:09

@executor

They weren't going to throw the game, they would have played 'normally' and probably loose. By promising them money to win or draw, Steaua tried to alter the result.

I agree that the ones that are more at fault here are "U" Cluj. They ended up with no punishment because in the mean time they were relegated (probably again this year, since they haven't received a license yet) and the people involved on their side decided to make a pact with the prosecutors and turn everyone else in.

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: luckyluke Date: 11-06-2013, 13:23	I am not sure but I think there was a few years ago simmilar case in spain. to pay some club to win the game. court find such case legal

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: bugylibicska Date: 11-06-2013, 14:17	Here`s the article from Soccerway: http://ca.soccerway.com/news/2013 June/10/fenerbahce-hit-with-match-fixing-charges/n232066/

Author: retroactive
Date: 12-06-2013, 18:59

@MudHen ... 'influencing the result' is a very wide concept ... not all these actions are illegal: UEFA does it, giving money for qualification, wins and draws (not looses), the fans at a match do it, the media does it. It matters NOT TO break any laws in the process, in this case to affect the club's 'object of activity' or to instigate the players to break their obligations from their work conventions. The bribe exist, when you try to procure advantages (by giving, or promising,... here i agree) that you are NOT entitled to, not the ones that YOU ARE entitled to ... and you are entitled to everything the laws allows. If the sportive regulations, it may be considered an punishable offense (i think we poayed for this one with deduction and fine), but it is not corruption.

So ... i am very curios to find out, how can UEFA justify their prizes, and how those performance prizes affect the results of matches in a different way than this?

In that specific match the CFR Cluj was over-motivated to win the match, because of a 10 mil EURO just for the CL direct access prize, and U Cluj had no stake, being already relegated! How is this working with your teory about not influencing results?

And i'm sorry that you are seeing this case totally different than what is it really is ... but Steaua tried to protect an competitional right, which was already hers, not to procure something which was not entitled to ... the only way this is corruption, if there is a law which states 'ÇFR must always win against U Cluj' ... that promising money to break a law, that illegal cause, and that's corruption! How about reading more and writing less ... i recommend it, it's healthy!

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: retroactive Date: 12-06-2013, 19:22 Edited by: retroactive at: 12-06-2013, 19:25	And by the way ... i'm promising 100 euros to Bert, if he changes the forum registration form, to include an IQ test and an general questions test (football theme)! The purpose is not to limit the access (i don't think like UEFA) but to see that small coefficient number beside the nick ... i think that will be fun ...

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: shisraelit Date: 12-06-2013, 21:36	If steaua will be excluded,vaslui is ready for play in el in early july?

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: edinson Date: 13-06-2013, 01:45	Ok, to understand one thing UEFA will judge the regulation, they do not interpret the actions of the media and our opinions have already evidence that Romanian justice in this case gave a clear verdict and the regulation states clearly that you must not try to influence in any way. The rest are just pure supposition ideas in regulation no positive influence there only influence.

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: executor Date: 13-06-2013, 07:44	@shisraelit Sort of. Their coach announced that he will tell the players to come back earlier from holiday, "just in case".

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: Ricardo Date: 13-06-2013, 09:47	What ever happened to Porto? They were under investigation too a few years ago. It was then too late to retreat him from CL (it was for the Fenerbahce case) and here already was announced that Porto would be punished domestical (just enough points so they wouldn't lose their title), but in Europe nothing would be done. And so it appeared to have happened........

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: luckyluke Date: 13-06-2013, 11:24	whole case is joke. uefa will never punish top clubs from top leagues see calciopolly case, punished in italy but not by uefa

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: shisraelit Date: 14-06-2013, 11:47	if besiktas is excluded kayserispor will play in qr3,and trabzonspor alyaws start in qr2,right?

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: luckyluke Date: 14-06-2013, 11:49	yes

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 14-06-2013, 12:45	Trabzonspor will only start in EL-Q4 when Fenerbahçe is suspended, because in that case Trabzonspor takes the CW-spot.

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: luckyluke Date: 14-06-2013, 13:43	I am not sure about that. Fenerbahce suspended or not is still cup winner. so cw spot will be used by Besiktas or Bursaspor if Besiktas is suspended

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 14-06-2013, 15:21	You are correct. I seemed to remember that when the Kazachstan Cup Winner of 2010 didn't receive a license the losing finalist took their place. They did qualify for EL, but as usual for losing finalists in the lowest EL-spot. So Trabzonspor will always start in EL-Q2, even when Fenerbahçe is suspended.

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: vkgz Date: 14-06-2013, 15:55	Turkey: Cl: Galatasaray Cl-play off: Bursaspor El-Trabzonspor El-Kayserispor El-Kasýmpaţa

Re: UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings..
Author: vkgz Date: 22-06-2013, 14:37	critical date: 24 june