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| ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: MalcolmW
Date: 03-06-2013, 22:47 | I've looked at the 76 teams in ELQ1 and split into 3 groups, with each country's teams all in one group, so that there are equal numbers of seeds and non-seeds in each group. Essentially they can best be described as Western, Central and Eastern. The only country moved from a 'natural' position is Macedonia, switched from Central to East (alternatively Albania could be switched, as that country also has 3 non-seeds). Western (13-13): ISL, FAR, NIR, IRL, WAL, NOR, SWE, FIN, LUX, AND. Central (13-13): SLK, HUN, LIE, SLO, SMA, BOS, MON, ALB, MLT, SRB, ROM, MOL, BUL. Eastern (12-12): EST, LAT, LIT, BLS, KAZ, GEO, AZB, ARM, MAC. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: magyarszurker
Date: 03-06-2013, 23:43 | Central looks the strongest, ain't it? |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Deneverember
Date: 04-06-2013, 00:42 | I think the split into groups is a wrong way because it is not fair with some countries. I understand the UEFA want seeded and unseedeed teams and this is clear. But the central, western and eastern region not equal because the countries are developing, and I think the central region is the best movers if the UEFA let it be, but they create groups and isn't fair for the central groups because the central groups teams will be win the lot of matches. The central region fight for each other and this countries did not raisen that deserve it.  |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: AnelZ
Date: 04-06-2013, 04:29 | I understand what Denver wants to say. If you come across any Forum of the ex-Yugoslavia region you can see a large amount of dissatisfied fans because most people here think the southern group in the qualifying round is almost always the strongest (maybe not the coefficient way) and the northern by far the weakest. Eg. Any champion from the ex-Yugoslavia is 100% sure that they would be able to beat Ekranas, HJK, Dinamo Tbilisi and many aren't even scared of Elfsborg, Molde and Sheriff (I'm not saying that I also think that way). But the most occasional opponents of the unseeded team in the southern region in CL QR2 which this year are eljezničar, Ludogorets, Skenderbeu, Birkirkara, Vardar and Sutjeska will be Steaua, Dinamo Zagreb, Partizan, Maribor, Maccabi Tel-Aviv. I know this won't be made this way but I'm sure I got 75% of the teams right for our group. Here are my predictions of the regional groups for CL QR2. If I get 60% right, I can say that I did a good job :P Northern: Seeded: Celtic; Partizan (from S); Legia (from CE); Elfsborg; Molde; Dinamo Tbilisi (from CE) Unseeded: Hafnarfjardar; Sligo Rovers; Skenderbeu (from S); EB Streymur; Daugava; Kalju Nome Central-Eastern: Seeded: BATE; Viktoria Plzen; Sheriff; Slovan; HJK (from N); Neftchi Unseeded: Gyor; The New Saints (from N); Shakhter Karagandy; Cliftonville (from N); Tre Penne (from S); Fola Esch (from N) Southern: Seeded: Steaua; Dinamo Zagreb; Maribor; Maccabi Tel-Aviv; Ekranas (from N) Unseeded: eljezničar; Ludogorets; Birkirkara; Vardar; Sutjeska |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 04-06-2013, 04:33 | Of course there's nothing official here, but let's find out, 2013 ranking used. West: Iceland (40th) Faroe Islands (51st) Northern Ireland (47th) Republic of Ireland (36th) Wales (49th) Norway (27th) Sweden (23rd) Finland (33rd) Luxembourg (46th) Andorra (53rd) Average: 40.5th Central: Slovakia (26th) Hungary (29th) Liechtenstein (45th) Slovenia (30th) San Marino (52nd) Bosnia-Herzegovina (34th) Montenegro (41st) Albania (43rd) Malta (44th) Serbia (25th) Romania (18th) Moldova (35th) Bulgaria (28th) Average: 34.6th East: Estonia (49th) Latvia (39th) Lithuania (37th) Belarus (20th) Kazakhstan (38th) Georgia (31st) Azerbaijan (32nd) Armenia (50th) FYR Macedonia (42nd) Average: 37.55th I'd be surprised if they did this though, they'll go with the Champions League style splits won't they with a Northern region? The Baltics always seem to be with the area in and around Britain and the Scandinavian countries and Belarus. Check it out the last couple years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_UEFA_Europa_League_qualifying_phas e_and_play-off_round#Seeding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_UEFA_Europa_League_first_qualifyin g_round#Seeding Renova intruded into the Northern section but were dealt with by unseeded Glentoran. Score one for the North!  More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_UEFA_Europa_League_qualifying_phas e_and_play-off_round#Seeding Seems consistent over the years. Before that it was every man for himself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_UEFA_Europa_League_qualifying_phas e_and_play-off_round#Seeding |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 04-06-2013, 05:03 Edited by: Lorric at: 04-06-2013, 05:04 | @ AnelZ I think this would be a good opportunity to see how these teams do against each other now that we have 3 years of regionalised CL under the belt. While it can sometimes be predicted which group a third round entry would be put in, I am ignoring third round entries in the interests of fairness. Second round entries will be judged when they meet a fellow second round entry after the second round. As you will notice, some of these teams move around. So, 2010/11 North vs South (1-1) Red Bull Salzburg defeated Omonia Red Bull Salzburg lost to Hapoel Tel Aviv North vs Central-East (0-1) HJK Helsinki lost to Partizan South vs Central-East (2-0) Hapoel Tel Aviv defeated Aktobe MSK Zilina defeated Sparta Prague So, 2011/12 North vs South (2-3) HJK Helsinki lost to Dinamo Zagreb Rosenborg lost to Viktoria Plzen BATE Borisov defeated Ekranas Malmo lost to Dinamo Zagreb BATE Borisov defeated Sturm Graz North vs Central-East (1-1) Wisla Krakow defeated Litex Lovech Wisla Krakow lost to APOEL South vs Central-East (-) 2012/13 North vs South (1-1) F91 Dudelange lost to Maribor Helsingborg defeated Slask Wroclaw North vs Central-East (-) South vs Central-East (1-2) Neftci Baku lost to Ironi Kiryat Schmona Partizan lost to AEL Limassol Dinamo Zagreb defeated Maribor Total: North vs South (4-5) Red Bull Salzburg defeated Omonia Red Bull Salzburg lost to Hapoel Tel Aviv HJK Helsinki lost to Dinamo Zagreb Rosenborg lost to Viktoria Plzen BATE Borisov defeated Ekranas Malmo lost to Dinamo Zagreb BATE Borisov defeated Sturm Graz F91 Dudelange lost to Maribor Helsingborg defeated Slask Wroclaw North vs Central-East (1-2) HJK Helsinki lost to Partizan Wisla Krakow defeated Litex Lovech Wisla Krakow lost to APOEL South vs Central-East (3-2) Hapoel Tel Aviv defeated Aktobe MSK Zilina defeated Sparta Prague Neftci Baku lost to Ironi Kiryat Schmona Partizan lost to AEL Limassol Dinamo Zagreb defeated Maribor |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 04-06-2013, 05:42 | I believe the only purpose to this groupings by UEFA to protect the Great White North and get rid of the teams as soon as possible coming from the former Sovietunion. Western teams don`t like to travel there, it`s expensive, faraway, tiresome travel, supporters or even club officials never heard the name of the country (not to mention the names of the teams), so all these things together just spell trouble in their eyes. This year my prediction: South (pretty straightforward) Steaua Bucuresti Zeljeznicar Sarajevo Dinamo Zagreb Ludogorets Partizan Beograd Skenderbeu Korce Sheriff Tiraspol Vardar Skopje Maribor Birkirkara Maccabi Tel Aviv Sutjeska Niksic North (again pretty straightforward) BATE Borisov Hafnarfjardar Celtic Glasgow The New Saints Elfsborg Sligo Rovers Molde Streymur HJK Helsinki Cliftonville Ekranas Panevezys Kalju Nomme Central (debatable) Plzen Gyor Legia Warszawa Shaktyor Karaganda Slovan Bratislava Daugava Daugavpils * Neftchi Baki Tre Penne Dinamo Tbilisi Fola Esch I`d be surprised if more than 2-3 changes will happen to the above. It makes perfect sense from UEFA point of view, just have a look at the unseeded teams on the North. How much chance would they have to knock out a seeded team from the South or Central group. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 04-06-2013, 05:48 Edited by: Lorric at: 04-06-2013, 05:50 | No, no, no, there's no conspiracy. The clubs wanted this, the first year it was open. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 04-06-2013, 06:49 | What clubs and who said it`s a conspiracy. I`ve never heard a club from the East not willing to travel to the Great White North. I know the ridiculous claim that it`s a financial burden on the small amateur clubs. I can`t imagine a sportsman from Scandinavia or Great Britain who plays for fun and cannot afford a couple thousand dollars and would not want to travel once a year to play a game no matter how far away. If somebody from Armenia or Georgia would complain, understandable, those are poor countries. This whole separate regions smokescreen is the brainchild of Johannsson, the former UEFA secretary from Sweden. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Nixda
Date: 04-06-2013, 09:37 | Working on a little programm to predict the groups in drawings. Currently i think there are following criterias to watch out for: 1) seeded/unseeded 2) country protection 3) group size of 10/12 teams 4) coeff sums of the groups similar 5) regional grouping 6) 1st round draw and 2nd round draw are not independent (winner country not yet decided -> blocks both for opponent) Do you think any other criterias need to be checked? As i am using a genetic algorithm i can incorporate those criterias with different weight in the evaluation function and test the parameters vs. the last draws. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: omonia
Date: 04-06-2013, 10:18 | @ Nixda It will be interesting to see the results on that. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Nixda
Date: 04-06-2013, 11:28 | Results look interesting so far. Tho it seems i should implement another criteria for the usual group patterns to start with: 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 14 13 12 11 10 09 08 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 38 37 36 |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: MalcolmW
Date: 04-06-2013, 18:12 | The seeding system has been developed by UEFA to fit a general purpose. Essentially, it works, altough inevitably it has some unintended consequences. The crucial factor in dealing with ELQ1 is not the 'strength' of the countries involved, but that of the clubs representing them on this occasion. Any club from Norway, Sweden, Romania, Bulgaria or Belarus would have been seeded because of those countries' coefficients. Taking the remainder, in my Western set there are 9 available seeded spots and 20 clubs in the rankings above the seeding line, of which (of course) 9 have reached the competition. Taking Wales as an example, there are 2 clubs who would have been seeded but The New Saints are in the CL and Bangor City have failed to qualify this season. So all 3 EL clubs are unsedded this year, but there might have been 1 or 2. The seeding can only take account of who has qualified, and the key aim is surely that the seeding line is the same for each subgroup, however they are composed. In my Eastesn set there are 23 potential seeds outside Belarus, of which 11 have reached the competition, so that is comparable to the Western set. Looking at the Baltic states, both Estonian teams above the seeding line, and all 3 Latvian teams, have reached the competition, and 1 of the 2 Lithuanian teams also has. So over those 3 countries 6 of the 7 seedable teams have qualified. Another year it might be different. That is why I think UEFA will make groups which balance the seeded numbers each year, so that subgroup formations will inevitably vary from year to year. Looking at my Central set there are 51 potential seeds outside Romania and Bulgaria. But 11 of those are in Hungary, the highest placed country which could possibly provide a non-seed (it did not). Slovenia has 6 seedable teams, but the 2 Q1 entrants are both unseeded. I'm sure that the slow progress caused by pitting Central teams against each other, and thereby limiting points gained is frustrating, but I'm sure that UEFA would view it as an incidental side-effect which will work itself out in the longer term. There are anomalies in the CL too. Manchester City has finished first and second in the last 2 English seasons, but finds itself again (almost certainly) in Pot 3 for the group stage. Moreover the other 3 English clubs are again all in Pot 1, meaning it is more likely than not that ManCity will draw one of Bayern, Barcelona or Real Madrid! And unless they produce a decent European set of results against these odds the sitation will recur again next season (but probably not thereafter). When English clubs were (rightly) barred for 5 seasons they had to build up coefficients and representation from scratch. The essential thing to do is to get on with whatever UEFA decides, rather than imagining that the whole purpose of whatever they decide is to penaise certain countries - because even if that happens to some extent it is a side-effect, not an aim, and it can be overcome in time. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: amirbachar
Date: 04-06-2013, 19:28 | Hello Nixda, UEFA uses the following criteria:4 and 5 are the only 1) seeded/unseeded - this is mandatory, that is the seeded will remain seeded no matter the grouping 2) country protection - also mandatory 3) group size of 10/12 teams - I beleive not mandatory, but quite likely 4) coeff sums of the groups similar 5) regional grouping 6) 1st round draw and 2nd round draw are not independent - mandatory So 4 and 5 are the only free variables for UEFA to play with, and the rest of the assumptions should hold in your results. I believe UEFA put more emphasis on 4, so take that into account in your program... |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: jaysea67
Date: 04-06-2013, 23:47 | Manchester City has finished first and second in the last 2 English seasons, but finds itself again (almost certainly) in Pot 3 for the group stage. They may well be in Pot 3 next year, but it wouldn't be 'again' because they were in Pot 2 this year. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 05-06-2013, 01:04 | @MalcolmW ``The essential thing to do is to get on with whatever UEFA decides, rather than imagining that the whole purpose of whatever they decide is to penaise certain countries - because even if that happens to some extent it is a side-effect, not an aim, and it can be overcome in time.`` I`ll get on whatever they decide, what else can I do, but I`m convinced that with this separation (segregation) of regions the West is losing out as much as the East. It`s a pity, because it`s political, shortsighted and very unsportmanslike. Anyway, can`t wait for the draw. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: TimJohnson
Date: 05-06-2013, 08:41 | While everyone complains about the northern groups they forget that for clubs from Wales and I should also include Northern Ireland they nearly always play clubs who are in the middle of the season while the other groups mainly do not. This is a massive disadvantage |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 05-06-2013, 11:55 Edited by: Lorric at: 05-06-2013, 11:57 | It's worth noting the last couple of years a Northern Irish club got a Macedonian club in the first round and both times, the Northern Irish club won. Glentoran defeated Renova two years ago and last year Portadown defeated Shkendija. Both NI clubs were unseeded. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: ransborg
Date: 05-06-2013, 23:36 Edited by: ransborg at: 05-06-2013, 23:42 | To be honest I think it is rather paranoid to think that UEFA did anything to prevent eastern European teams from advancing. What exactly is it you are afraid will happen? That northern teams get a substantial difference from beating each other in a round, because they would all lose out to the vastly superior eastern teams if only they were facing off? Come on... Arguably the most unfair thing in that direction is the bottom 4 teams getting free matches in CLQ1 which makes it much easier for them to catch up on the countries right in front of them. The regionalisation is there for lowering traveling costs, but more importantly to increase the interest around these games. No one in broad public of Northern Ireland was probably thrilled by seeing there teams kick out random teams from Macedonia, it would have been much more thrilling to see them get beaten by a Scottish or Welsh team for instance, whears I guess the Macedonian public would have preffered opponents from Albania, Serbia or some other southeastern country. Oh and Bugylibicska, I have rarely met as stupid a comment as that of yours regarding rich northern (western) amateur sportsmen. If you seriously think any amateur player in e.g. the Faroese or Icelandic league would be happy to AND capable of paying the full cost of an away trip to play in deep Eastern Europe you are beyond reach anyway. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 06-06-2013, 01:38 | Well, I know a few people here in Canada, too, who call anybody with a differing opinion ``paranoid``, ``stupid`` just to brag and show off their very low intelligence level, like you have. Yes, they live in subsidized housing, in trailer parks and live day to day on the welfare cheques provided by the government through the tax money of honest, hardworking people. They won`t travel anywhere, only to the next street corner for their next portion of weed. I`m sure they`d welcome you with open heart if you find your life so miserable over there, you`ve earned your membership in their brotherhood. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: ransborg
Date: 06-06-2013, 09:09 Edited by: ransborg at: 06-06-2013, 09:11 | I am extremely sorry, that post clearly shows how intelligent you are and how unfair it was of me to call you paranoid and your post stupid. Lets get back to discussing the topic, shall we? Because I think I put forward some arguments you could adress, instead of suggesting me to move out of "The Great White North" as you apparently like to call it. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: KRBY
Date: 06-06-2013, 10:06 | I saw all the comments in this topic and I still don't understand when UEFA did regionalization since 2009. Tell me one example. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: omonia
Date: 06-06-2013, 11:14 | @Nixda Do you have any results to show us on that subgroups prediction? |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 06-06-2013, 15:10 | @KRBY ``I saw all the comments in this topic and I still don't understand when UEFA did regionalization since 2009. Tell me one example.`` First, thank you for not insulting and showing example for the lower class, it could be done in a civilized way. I`ll just go back 3 years and use examples from the CL. 2010-11: Bohemians Dublin-The New Saints BATE Borisov-Hafnarfjardar Linfield-Rosenborg Trondheim Ekranas Panevezys-HJK Helsinki 2011-12; Malmo-Torshavn Shamrock Rovers-Flora Tallinn Rosenborg Trondheim-Breidablik Bangor City-HJK Helsinki Linfield-BATE Borisov 2012-13 Linfield-Torshavn The New Saints-Helsingborg HJK Helsinki-KR Reykjavik Molde-Ventspils Shamrock Rovers-Ekranas Panevezys |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Nixda
Date: 06-06-2013, 15:27 | @omonia I am still adjusting the algorithm and adopt the fitness function as untill now i didnt incorporate regions. If all goes well tonight i can show you a example tomorrow. Tho it will still need some tweaking and counter checking with old data. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: duncshine
Date: 09-06-2013, 12:44 | So let me see if I understand this correctly for CL Q2 In their 'natural' regions we have Seeded: Southern-Med: 5 teams: ROM, CRO, SRB, SLO, ISR Northern: 5 teams: SCO, SWE, NOR, FIN, LIT Cent-East: 7 teams: BLR, CZE, MOL, POL, SVK, AZE, GEO Not too bad, but... Unseeded: Southern-Med: 7 teams: BOS, BUL, ALB, MLT, MAC, SMA, MON Northern: 8 teams: ICE, WAL, IRE, FAR, NIR, LAT, EST, LUX Cent-East: 2 teams: HUN, KAZ Which is harder! But as ONLY ONE option of many Seeded We shift Moldova to Southern-Med and Poland to Northern Unseeded Move Luxembourg and Latvia to Central-Eastern Move Bulgaria to Central Eastern This would give us: Southern-Med: Seeded Unseeded: |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: AnelZ
Date: 09-06-2013, 12:56 Edited by: AnelZ at: 09-06-2013, 12:57 | You would be probably right if only the regions were taken in account. But when you look at the coefficient of the groups you made, you can see they are very much unbalanced, while UEFA targets to get the groups as balanced as possible regarding coefficient but taking the regions also in account. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 09-06-2013, 17:02 | @duncshine If you scroll up a bit, you`ll see my post. You put Legia into the Northern group and BATE into the Central one, in mine it`s reversed. You put Tre Penne into the Southern group and Ludogorets into the Central one, in mine it`s reversed. I think you got the idea, of course UEFA will tinker a bit, but one question remains: why are so secretive before every draw if they`ve nothing to hide. As for the myth that travel costs are the main reason for the regions, here`s an opinion from a forum member in Denmark about Faroe Islands after I`ve asked: ``I don't really think it's a problem. Nothing that I've heard of at least. I'm pretty certain the Faroese FA receive enough funds from UEFA to pay all expenses for the players. There might be an issue with players who have to take time off from their jobs and I don't know how that is sorted, but I would imagine that they are compensated for their losses to some extent.`` So, what`s the reason then. I suspect this: ``No one in broad public of Northern Ireland was probably thrilled by seeing there teams kick out random teams from Macedonia, it would have been much more thrilling to see them get beaten by a Scottish or Welsh team for instance, whears I guess the Macedonian public would have preffered opponents from Albania, Serbia or some other southeastern country.`` I cannot speak for Macedonia, but I know Hungary quite well and never heard that people complain being paired with far away teams, be it Armenia or Sweden or whatever country. I don`t know how widespread is the above opinion, but if it`s the overwhelming public opinion in Northern Ireland, why they bother to participate in Europe. Although, I`m not sure, because if somebody enters the fray like this: ``Oh and Bugylibicska, I have rarely met as stupid a comment as that of yours regarding rich northern (western) amateur sportsmen. If you seriously think any amateur player in e.g. the Faroese or Icelandic league would be happy to AND capable of paying the full cost of an away trip to play in deep Eastern Europe you are beyond reach anyway.`` ...and unable to spell in his own language, well his credibility is seriously suspect. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 09-06-2013, 17:16 | Let me just put in a video here on Northern Ireland vs Macedonia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ3LgxXpLTQ These teams rarely beat anyone. They'll be happy just to win a match. It's a good video btw just to watch the highlights of that match for the sake of it. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: nis
Date: 10-06-2013, 00:41 Edited by: nis at: 10-06-2013, 00:51 | 1. Since 2009, Serbian champion never been in the same sub group with the Bosnian and Albanian champion , probably because of political reasons , isues with Serbia and Kosovo is going on and on , and Kosovo have near 2 milions Albanians, so thats a reason why Serbian and Albanian champions are not in the same group, and for Bosnia, i dont know reason, because half od Bosnia are Serbs , but other half is problem, 2007 Partizan beat Zrinjski from Mostar, but there was trouble with fans and Partizan was kicked out from Europe that season, after thay beat 11 : 1 on agregate Zrinjski, which comes from part of Bosnia with mostly Croat population 2.Only one time Serbian champion was with Macedonian champions (2011 Partizan played vs Skendija ) 3. Ludogorets will be in same sub group with all other teams from region, DinamoZg, Partizan , Maribor |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: AnelZ
Date: 10-06-2013, 01:30 Edited by: AnelZ at: 10-06-2013, 02:11 | It's not really half of the country, but rather about 35% of B&H are Serbs, but they get the point. I don't really think that UEFA deliberately/fixed separate Serbian teams from Albanian/Bosnian ones like they do for the national teams of Azerbaijan and Armenia, but maybe they do take it in account in some way or other to just assure more safety in the early stages while forming the sub-groups. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 10-06-2013, 02:13 | Yes, but that`s a different issue, taking into consideration raw politics, like the Nagorno-Karabakh war between Armenia and Azerbaijan. The question here is, what`s the attitude of the supporters of Serbian and Bosnian teams, do the vast majority prefer to play local (i.e., Balkan) derbies year after year or are they open to the idea to play and travel to other regions. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: AnelZ
Date: 10-06-2013, 02:26 Edited by: AnelZ at: 10-06-2013, 02:31 | Well, because I'm active on Bosnian forums, many (not all) of the fans would like to avoid clashes with teams from Croatia/Serbia because of potential fan riots and because they are formidable sides although the stadium would be probably full (against Dinamo Zagreb, Hajduk, Partizan and Zvezda there is no doubt the stadium would be full, Vojvodina and Rijeka would fill also a nice percentage), but all are fine with playing against teams from other Balkan countries (Macedonia, Montenegro, "Slovenia" and Albania, Bulgarian teams are mostly on the list to be avoided because they aren't so easy while in the same time riots are possible) even though they aren't as attractive as clubs from Croatia/Serbia. Regarding games against teams from other countries who are not from Balkans, it depends and mostly on strength and which QR stage it is. While eljezničar fans wouldn't like to get Celtic in QR2, most wouldn't have anything to get them in QR3 because we know that we wouldn't even stand a chance against the other teams also in that phase. Regarding teams from Georgia, Lithuania or Finland, nobody would have something against for eljezničar to get teams from those countries because they are the weakest seeding sides right now, while in the same times nobody likes the Israel teams because they aren't very attractive but are strong sides. So basically, if the side is considered weak and we can pass them nobody will have something against playing them even if they would be on the other side of Europe and they are not attractive. But if it isn't that way, than people would rather like someone nearer or more attractive so that we fans can go on an away trip in big numbers or have high attendance on home game. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 10-06-2013, 04:00 | Thank you, very similar attitude in Hungary. Of course teams would like to go as far as possible in the competition, so if in the first round they get a team even from Kazakhstan (no disrespect - some of my favourites are Aktobe and Tobol - but distance) nobody complains. And the thinking exactly the same when they reach a round where they are sure underdogs - no matter what team they draw - bring them on (in this case Celtic looks the most attractive team) is the attitude. So, the argument doesn`t seem to hold water in this part of Europe, mainly, that the teams were asking for these regions, like somebody suggested here. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 10-06-2013, 08:57 | In national teams only Armenia/Azerbaijan and Russia/Georgia can't draw each other (Gibraltar/Spain will be added to these). So when Serbia can be drawn together with Albania and Bosnia in national teams, I doubt their clubs would be kept apart in CL and EL. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 10-06-2013, 16:04 Edited by: bugylibicska at: 10-06-2013, 16:05 | Well, Armenia and Azerbaijan were drawn together in the same group in the 2008 Euro qualifiers, but games were cancelled. I can`t recall any games on the club level between them in recent times, so UEFA probably keeps them apart. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: ransborg
Date: 10-06-2013, 18:39 | I completely agree with the statement that most teams/countries would prefer to either get the worst possible oponent (no matter how far they have to go), the most well-known opponent (to get a full stadium and an interesting experience) or a derby with a near-by country, as that is the two reasons for playing in europe: getting as far as possible and play interesting matches. @bugylibicska I am glad you agree with my viewpoint on the match-interest, and I completely agree with you that it plays a major role compared to traveling costs and -ease. You do have to consider it is not only the teams but also the fans who have to travel (then you can argue that many of the small teams do not have that many fans, but anyway). Also, I am not from Northern Ireland, but from Denmark, and as such english is not my native language  |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 10-06-2013, 19:45 | @ bugylibicska That is what brought about the splitting of Armenia and Azerbaijan. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 10-06-2013, 23:54 Edited by: bugylibicska at: 10-06-2013, 23:57 | @Lorric You mean the Nagorno-Karabakh war (1988-94). Well, the animosity between these countries goes back a bit in history, they fought a war in 1918-1920 that ended only after the Sovietunion swallowed both of them, but that`s a topic not for here. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 11-06-2013, 03:03 | No, I mean it was the problems when those two ended up in the same group that made them decide to make sure those two couldn't end up in the same group again. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Nixda
Date: 12-06-2013, 11:18 | @omonia a little update on my project in research round1 groups: 1) uefa really seems to prefer keeping as many teams in their row as possible: Seeded 1-7 Seeded 8-14 .. Seeded 36-X Unseeded 1-7 .. Unseeded 36-X 2) regions: to some extent uefa prefers having a "clear" group aslong there is enough diversity and count in one region. the other groups are slightly mixed to heavily mixed in regions 3) coefficients: seems uefa prefers to have groups with similar ratio of coeffs under a formula similar to: use for seeded 1-6 the coeff of seeded 7. divide the sums of coeffs by the number of teams in the group. Those 3 are the "soft" criterias i am currently trying to find a fitness function for. I have found results that perfectly fit to one or two criterias but are more "off" in the third than the actually chosen groups in the past. For example i need to find out if uefa prefers a solution with X teams in "wrong" rows instead of Y teams with "wrong" regions in groups and where the "breakeven" between X and Y lies. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: omonia
Date: 12-06-2013, 13:06 | OK man, keep working on that! I know that it's extremely difficult to get the right predictions. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 12-06-2013, 21:45 | Unless it is fun for you, at this point, you might as well wait. The draw is in 12 days. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Nixda
Date: 12-06-2013, 23:50 | As i am German the draws i will be really interested in will start with round3 draws. So its still some time untill then and i use the draws in meantime to get more test data. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: luckyluke
Date: 21-06-2013, 14:09 | draw is on monday. when groups will be published? |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 21-06-2013, 15:13 | Groups for the draws are usually published on the morning of the draw. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: seidodge
Date: 21-06-2013, 16:04 | Last year the groups weren't released publicly and streaming of the draw didn't worl on the UEFA site. We'll see how Monday goes |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 21-06-2013, 16:41 | I thought the EL Q1 were published (but very late maybe), but the EL Q2 groups are usually not published before the draw. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Rafa_02
Date: 23-06-2013, 12:08 | tomorrow is draw, any predictions? |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: AnelZ
Date: 23-06-2013, 18:48 Edited by: AnelZ at: 23-06-2013, 18:55 | A prediction? Well, the only thing I hope is that eljezničar gets Ekranas or HJK in CL QR2, Dinamo Tbilisi and Molde wouldn't be bad also, while Elfborg, Neftchi and maybe, but just maybe, Sheriff would be last I could live with and hope to pass into the QR3; I already regard the other teams as better then eljezničar. But when the subgroups are made I'm pretty sure we will be with fellow southern-mediterranean countries so if that is the case that I wouldn't have anything to see a replay against Maribor. They are much better, have a better organization, stadium, finances but somewhere in the back of my mind I would still hope that we can pass them and not to repeat the shame of the last year. It would be nice to avoid Partizan because riots would be almost a certainty between The Maniacs and Grobari, while Dinamo Zagreb could also be a risky game. Maccabi Tel-Aviv is also someone we would like to avoid because they aren't attractive but are very strong for us, while Steaua would probably also dismantle us but at least they are much more attractive as an opponent. One more club which I would love to get if we can't get the one I mentioned in the first part of the post, but also would love to avoid is Legia Warsaw. The reason why I would like to get them is because if we win against them we would be seeded in QR3, but the reason why I would like to avoid them is because there is also a high chance that riots would occur (not as big as against Partizan or eventually Dinamo Zagreb). |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 23-06-2013, 19:25 Edited by: bugylibicska at: 23-06-2013, 19:27 | In the CL I`d like to see for Gyor (Hungary) realistically - it means staying strictly in the Central region - an opponent from the following group of teams: Neftchi Baki, Dinamo Tbilisi, Slovan Bratislava or Legia Warszawa in that order. Plzen are just too strong. If I might dream and there`ll be some mixing by UEFA I`d choose Ekranas Panevezys first, HJK Helsinki and Molde would be OK, but no chance UEFA will let them out from the Northern region. And from the Southern group I`d live with Maribor, but all the others are just too strong for Gyor. I don`t think for a moment that Gyor are better than these teams or they`ll be the favourites to progress, but I hope they might have a decent chance even as underdogs to reach the 3rd round. In the EL for Videoton I`d wish a team from the Caucasus in the 1st round, an opponent from Georgia or Armenia as an attractive travel destination, but practically I wouldn`t have any objection against any potential opponents. In the 2nd round again teams from the Caucasus region (Pyunik Yerevan, Inter Baki, Dila Gori or Khazar Lankaran) or from Slovakia (Trencin, Senica) look the most desirable for my eyes. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Marcin
Date: 23-06-2013, 21:22 | For Legia Warsaw (Poland) in second round most important is to avoid Ludogorets Razgrad, others teams to avoid are ETO Györ and because of very tiresome journey to Central Asia Shakhtyor Karaganda. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: air
Date: 23-06-2013, 22:58 | @bugylibicska: Don't agree. I'd be happy if Győr could get Viktoria Plzen, since they could gain a seeding with a win - and Plzen are not that strong. Okay, they have some serious results from the last year, but take a look to their squad - it's not that dangerous. I think the same about BATE. Let's hope a central regional group with BATE, Plzen, Legia and some Caucasian teams. Anyway, I predict a Legia vs Győr battle. For the other Hungarian teams: Honvéd are weak as hell, same for Debrecen. Videoton could get there somewhere to the playoff round. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 23-06-2013, 23:16 | BATE are struggling a bit in their league currently, they are 9pts behind Shakhtyor Soligorsk, though they have a game in hand. Looks like they've got a serious fight on if they want to claim their 8th straight title. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Marcin
Date: 23-06-2013, 23:19 | Bate struggling in their league that is unexpected news ! |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 23-06-2013, 23:20 | Well, if you`re from Hungary I`m sure you know more about Gyor than me. Last time I`ve seen them a few years back vs. Montpellier. I`ve seen MTK, Videoton and Debrecen recently, not very impressed. I see your point being seeded in the 3rd round if they`re able to knock out Legia or Plzen, but I`m more modest and would be happy if they make the 3rd round somehow. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 23-06-2013, 23:24 Edited by: Lorric at: 23-06-2013, 23:24 | BATE are still 2nd, but Shakhtyor are just dominating at the moment. The question is can they keep it going for an entire season? It's 14 games in, 13 for BATE. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 24-06-2013, 05:07 | That`s how BATE used to start in Belarus, but now they`ve had a few hiccups and Soligorsk look rock solid: 11 wins 2 draws and only 1 loss (vs. Gomel at home) with a very impressive 23:2 (!!!) goal difference. They`ve let in 2 goals only in 14 games! It looks like BATE got some competition this year. Maybe somebody from Belarus could shed some light on the secret. On the other post I`ve written about my desire for Videoton - to be paired with a team from the Caucasus region. It looks like not an impossible wish, just a quick check in Bert`s database and in the last 9 years Hungarian teams in the EL got paired with 3 Armenian and 1 Georgian teams. Beside, with 3 teams from Kazakhstan. All together they got 14 opponents from the Central region and 3 from the South, and none (0) from the North. (In the first round.) |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: JohnHarts
Date: 24-06-2013, 05:59 | Can someone here explain the logic of leaving the draw so late (one week before the games!) and also of not publishing the sub-groups until the day of the draw (if they publish them at all) ?? I know many of the teams involved are small clubs with consequently small fanbases, but still, many of them do have fans who would like to travel to see games. One of my clubs is Cliftonville, who will likely be in the north section and 2-3 weeks is a very short period of time for people to arrange time off work and book flights. I know there is stuff with club licensing etc, but that could be sorted out in May, for a draw the last Friday of May or first week of June. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Rafa_02
Date: 24-06-2013, 09:02 | Still waiting for pre-draw groups |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Rafa_02
Date: 24-06-2013, 09:42 | Second qualifying round draw Group 1 FC Steaua Bucureşti (ROU) FC Viktoria Plzeň (CZE) FC Sheriff (MDA) NK Maribor (SVN) Neftçi PFK (AZE) FK eljezničar (BIH) KS Skënderbeu (ALB) Birkirkara FC (MLT) FK Vardar (MKD) FK Sutjeska (MNE) Group 2 Celtic FC Legia Warszawa (POL) IF Elfsborg (SWE) Molde FK (NOR) HJK Helsinki (FIN) FK Ekranas (LTU) FH Hafnarfjördur (ISL) The New Saints FC (WAL) Sligo Rovers FC (IRL) Cliftonville FC (NIR) FC Daugava Daugavpils (LVA) JK Nőmme Kalju (EST) Group 3 FC BATE Borisov (BLR) GNK Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) FK Partizan (SRB) K Slovan Bratislava (SVK) Maccabi Tel-Aviv FC (ISR) FC Dinamo Tbilisi (GEO) Győri ETO FC (HUN) PFC Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL) FC Shakhter Karagandy (KAZ) CS Fola Esch (LUX) Winner first qualifying round Match 1 Winner first qualifying round Match 2 |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Rafa_02
Date: 24-06-2013, 09:43 | The only strong teams are in third group, is that fair? Uefa is kidding us. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: air
Date: 24-06-2013, 10:26 | That's a joke. This draw system supports the ultralight Scandinavian champions, while the most strongest group is no. 3 by far. I can't believe that travel costs count while you could earn 6 million euros with just a reached group stage... So unfair!! (To continue the story: Győr were ruled out from last year's Europe League, because of a ridiculous, unacceptable UEFA decision. Otherwise they would be easily seeded.) @bugylibicska: Yep, I am from Hungary, that's also clear form my letters 'ő'. Well, I think Győr are just the second strongest team in the country, and will play counter attack football against almost all possible opponent. Anyway, these teams seem better than that Montpellier.Győr's chanches in my opinion: against BATE 50% against Dinamo 35% against Partizan 40% against Slovan 50% against Maccabi 40% against Tbilisi 65% |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Schnapper
Date: 24-06-2013, 11:13 | Still no information about the EL subgroups... |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: seidodge
Date: 24-06-2013, 11:20 | I just spoke to someone at the draw and the clubs haven't even been informed yet about the EL groups |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 24-06-2013, 11:22 | If clubs don't want regional draws in earlier qualifying rounds they should tell UEFA. If a lot of clubs want to get rid of regions UEFA won't keep it this way. And not complain afterwards if they get "stronger" opponent in their own region. Teams are ranked because of coefficient and so the best teams are seeded no matter of region. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: seidodge
Date: 24-06-2013, 11:24 | It's only semi regionalised (For example Poland can draw Ireland in CL). Clubs definitely want the first few rounds to be regionalised. Only a few fans don't agree with this IMO |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 24-06-2013, 11:31 | On average team ranking of the seeded clubs group 1 is the strongest. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 24-06-2013, 11:34 | These groups are a joke. 4 out of 6 unseeded teams from group 3 are a nightmare for this stage of the competition. Other two groups are laughable, especially the northern one. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: maciejko
Date: 24-06-2013, 11:39 | Well, main problem is that only clubs from other regions that Eastern are not against regional groups because they... don't want to travel east Hours in planes, 40°C and strong rival. It's fun to travel to Andorra for holiday and easy win And that's why complains from clubs from Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic etc. that every year they have to play somewhere in Asia are dismissed. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: paul7
Date: 24-06-2013, 11:50 | again regional.why ?i can understand for europa leeague.but why for champions league? they a not travelling by bus.so you take a plane and in few hours you are at the city you have to play. feel sorry for Ludogorets and Gyor |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: AnelZ
Date: 24-06-2013, 11:58 Edited by: AnelZ at: 24-06-2013, 12:07 | Just can't belive at the second group... By far, by miles far the easiest subgroup. eljezničar has an average group. Steaua and Viktoria Plzen are by far the biggest favorites and we would stand no chance against them. Sheriff depends on how much they progressed/got worse in the last two season since we kicked them out. Regarding Maribor, it would at least be possible to play against them, but they would be the favorite, while Neftchi is a bit of mistery to me but they played EL GS last season so they can't be that bad. So basicly: Steaua and Viktoria Plzen - would dismantle eljezničar (or any club of the unseeded sides) Maribor - eljezničar could at least try to play against them, but Maribor would be the favorite. The other clubs would most certainly just be big outsiders. Sheriff and Neftchi - they are oscillating too much and that could be a good thing if you get them when they are not ready. Basically, they are like a timed mine, it is hard to predict what awaits you. BTW: After this draw, I'm pretty sure that UEFA also takes the risk of the games as a condition for making the subgroups in CL QR2 or QR3 and EL QR1, QR2 and QR3. Nobody can convince me that only pure luck divided eljezničar (and other Bosnian clubs) from Croatia and Serbia clubs in the last four years, the same goes for Albania-Serbia clubs and probably Bulgaria-Macedonia. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: shisraelit
Date: 24-06-2013, 12:08 | nooooo,no san marino-andorra. we will have shirak-tre penne and lusitanos-eb streymur. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: alexmorgan
Date: 24-06-2013, 12:10 | I dont know how we missed this... but the ELQR1 sub groups were released last Thursday!!! http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=1965312.html |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Ricardo
Date: 24-06-2013, 12:16 | not true, you missed this comment: Last updated: 24/06/13 12.01CET |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Michael_D
Date: 24-06-2013, 12:16 | They just updated the first EL-round groupings. Has not been there since Thursday. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: shisraelit
Date: 24-06-2013, 12:20 | steaua- vardar, plzen -zejzenicar,neftchi-skenderbeu,maribor-birkirkara,sheriff sujetska niksic hjk-nomme kalju,elfsborg-daugava,legia-tns,celtic-cliftonville,ekranas-fh sligo-molde gyor-maccabi,dinamo-fola,bate- karaganda, shirak\tre penne-partizan, slovanbratislava-ludogorets and lusitanos\streymur-dinamo tblisi |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: fridge46
Date: 24-06-2013, 12:22 | C'mon guys... be glad he found the sub groups before the draw took place!!! |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: JohnHarts
Date: 24-06-2013, 12:26 | Amusingly, the UEFA draw guy described the Celtic - Cliftonville tie as "a British derby." Given that both clubs are strongly associated with Irish republicanism, I think he needs to do his homework a little more. Had hoped to see a Champs league game in the Baltics but the ties are seriously uninspiring. Group 2 was easily the weakest draw section. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 24-06-2013, 12:34 | The pre draw groups of EL Q1 are not listed according to coefficient again, so that will (most likely) mean they will perform a draw with numbers again in stead of with clubs. So 1 draw for groups 1-4 (with 10 clubs) and 1 draw for groups 5-7 (with 12 clubs). |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: De_Republiek
Date: 24-06-2013, 12:59 Edited by: De_Republiek at: 24-06-2013, 13:00 | If that's true then I find it strange the EL Q1 draw takes place at 13:00 CET while the EL Q2 draw takes place as late as 14:30 CET. Did this also happen last year? |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 24-06-2013, 13:03 | Yes, they need time to make the pre draw groups for EL Q2 after the EL Q1 draw is made. Last years there was also about 1-1,5 hour between the draws. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: ransborg
Date: 24-06-2013, 13:11 | I can understand that the hungarians and bulgarians are unhappy with the seeded sides they can draw in group 3, as there are some really tough oponents. But I dont see how you can think this: "4 out of 6 unseeded teams from group 3 are a nightmare for this stage of the competition" Group 3 has 3 walk-overs and then a kazakh team which is only annoying because it is far away. Tblisi will be flying longer if they are going to Torshavn. In my eyes the main imbalance is the high quality of the lowest seeded teams in group 3, who are indeed very strong. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 24-06-2013, 13:24 | It's pretty remarkable that in 10 out of 11 drawn pairs the seeded team plays the return match at home. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Ricardo
Date: 24-06-2013, 13:29 | is there a place where I can follow this without the livestream? I can't watch livestreams at work  |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 24-06-2013, 17:16 | Well, Gyor got Maccabi Tel-Aviv in the CL, quite an unknown team for me, but if they`re at the level of Maccabi Haifa or Hapoel Tel-Aviv of recent times, Gyor have their work cut out for themselves. They`re not favourites for sure, but let`s hope for a pleasant surprise. The game of the round is definitely Slovan Bratislava-Ludogorets Razgrad. Then follows Gyor-Maccabi TA and Plzen-Zeljeznicar in my opinion. Videoton got a better draw, Mladost Podgorica from Montenegro looks very manageable. And if they overcome the first hurdle Senica from Slovakia waits for them. So, although my wish for an opponent from the Caucasus didn`t materialize, I`m quite satisfied with the draw, because Videoton have a decent chance to make into the 3rd round. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 24-06-2013, 17:22 | @ ransborg Exactly. I'd back any of the Northern unseeds to defeat Fola Esch or the two Q1 winners. The better sides could take on the Kazakh club I would think. You have a 50/50 chance to get a very easy side. Or you get the Kazakh side, or a 1 in 3 chance on one of imo the two toughest unseeds. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 24-06-2013, 17:29 | About the groupings of the regions: the North group looks almost the same as I`ve predicted, the only changes: UEFA removed BATE and inserted Legia instead among the seeded and no Streymur, but Daugavpils among the unseeded. They mixed the seeded teams between the South and Central regions, but the strength of the groups were not altered significantly. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bugylibicska
Date: 25-06-2013, 04:36 | ``These groups are a joke. 4 out of 6 unseeded teams from group 3 are a nightmare for this stage of the competition. Other two groups are laughable, especially the northern one.`` I certainly not agree that ``4 out of 6 unseeded teams from group 3 are a nightmare for this stage``, but I see his point. I think Gyor and Ludogorets are without question the strongest unseeded teams overall. And I see the danger in Shakhter Karagandy and Shirak Gyumri, but wouldn`t consider them nightmares. ``Exactly. I'd back any of the Northern unseeds to defeat Fola Esch or the two Q1 winners. The better sides could take on the Kazakh club I would think.`` I don`t care about Fola Esch, but I`ve a problem seeing Shirak Gyumri losing against every unseeded in the Northern group. Quite a bold statement! ``The better sides`` are Hafnarfjardar, TNS, Sligo Rovers and Cliftonville I assume. Daugavpils and Kalju Nomme are the last two in rankings and anyway, they don`t really protected, they`re just there to fill up the group. Unfortunately, because of this regionalizing, there`re not many results between these clubs and clubs from the Central-East region, but a few. Cliftonville played only Kosice and lost 13:1 (5:1, 8:0), not very impressive. Sligo Rovers have two games vs. Vorskla Poltava and Trnava, and lost both, 2:0 (0:0, 2:0) and 4:2 (3:1, 1:1) respectively. TNS have no record vs. Central-East teams. Hafnarfjardar, the highest ranking have not less than 5 encounters, one of them vs. Kazakh opponent. Aktobe beat them 6:0 (4:0, 2:0), Neftchi Baki beat them 4:1 (2:0, 2:1), Legia Warszawa beat them 3:0 (1:0, 2:0) and BATE Borisov beat them twice, 6:1 (5:1, 1:0) and 4:2 (3:1, 1:1). Yeah, they made 1 draw from 10 games and lost the other 9 ones. Again, not very impressive, but these are the hard facts, everything else is just fantasy. That`s what you mean that the ``better sides can take on the Kazakh club.`` The serious question remains: what a chance if any these unseeded teams from the North would have vs. the seeded teams from the Central-East region or for that matter from the South region. Gyor and Ludogorets could give for some of the seeded teams in the North at least some good run for their money, but we might not know ever if they`ll be knocked out in this round. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: Lorric
Date: 25-06-2013, 16:43 Edited by: Lorric at: 25-06-2013, 16:43 | The better sides would have been Sligo, Daugavpils and maybe Hafnarfjardar. Ludogorets don't really belong in the unseeded section. A stronger Northern country could produce a new champion, and you'd have the same situation. Molde for instance last season, who ended up in the ELGS from unseeded in CLQ2. Unseeds in this round rarely win. It's very unbalanced. |
| Re: ELQ1 sub-groups | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 26-06-2013, 09:35 | Just for the record here are my intermediate list of groups in EL-Q1 and EL-Q2, used for the list of groups in Seeding in the Europa League 2013/2014. But this list here has the coefiicients also. EL-Q1 St. Patrick's Athletic Irl 5.975 EL-Q2 FK Sarajevo * Bos 5.066 |