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EL winner to CL
Author: executor Date: 22-05-2013, 20:30	It's oficial! Marca says, that, today, the Executive Committee of UEFA approved that the EL winner qualifies for the following season of CL, starting with 2015/16 season http://www.marca.com/2013/05/22/futbol/europa_league/1369231614.html

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 22-05-2013, 20:35	I suppose that does give teams an incentive to take the Europa League seriously, which I'm definitely in favour of

Author: Lorric
Date: 22-05-2013, 21:27

How's the 4 team thing going to work?

I could imagine a team 3rd in a top league missing out on a CL place because 4th won the CL and 5th won the EL.

Hopefully they just get out of our faces and let a maximum of 6 teams from one league participate (4 + CL + EL winner) if necessary.

People have been screaming from the rooftops for years for this. Hopefully this will remove all this garbage from the EL now that teams know they can go CL even if they aren't up to it via the league.

I wonder if it's straight to the CLGS or have to qualify?

Hopefully we'll see something ideally on UEFA.com about this. A European Champion to the Champions League.

You might want to change the title of this so people as I did don't think it's yet another debate on the idea of putting the winner of the EL to the CL.

Author: mspm89
Date: 22-05-2013, 21:57

@Lorric: i think it was due time for this to be done. Of course, the modifications to the current system will be somewhat a pain in the a$$, but here is this forum to clarify them for all the world

And yes, the top 3 countries might see a situation where the 3rd placed team misses out on CL. There would be an avalanche of rellocations, but who cares? It was unfair to Tottenham, but it's for the greater good after all.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Lorric Date: 22-05-2013, 22:09 Edited by: Lorric at: 22-05-2013, 22:10	Oh yes, I'd take it for the greater good if it had to be that way, but it's stupid and unnecessary, they reserve spots for these possibilities, it shouldn't matter where the teams come from. Tottenham should have been on the Champions Path this season.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: mspm89 Date: 22-05-2013, 22:44	What would be a solution then? Do you support the idea of letting the top 3 or (in the extreme case of both CL and EL TH places being used) top 6 countries have 5 teams in CL? Personally, i don't. 15 years ago the maximum was 2, and unless they merge both competitions, it shouldn't be increased further.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Lorric Date: 22-05-2013, 22:47 Edited by: Lorric at: 22-05-2013, 22:49	I'd say maximum of 6 for the top 3, but 4 the norm. You'd probably never see the 6, and rarely see the 5. Tottenham this year would have been the first time since the Liverpool thing started it all with 5.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: mspm89 Date: 22-05-2013, 22:59	Besides, the whole controversy is founded on the sense of entitlement for those top 4 spots. Now, with Tottenham's precedent and the possibility of not only one but two downgrades to EL in the same league, that entitlement should be dwindling on time. Teams will get accustomed to the idea that only the top 2 places are guaranteed of CL football beyond any wild (and pretty negligible) possibility.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: mspm89 Date: 22-05-2013, 23:05 Edited by: mspm89 at: 22-05-2013, 23:07	You see, it's been all the same with EL or UC since the abolition of CWC: teams don't know (or care, in the early stages of the season) whether 7th place would qualify them to anything. You may end 6th and next year not be in Europe (Everton this time) or end 7th and be in a Final next year (Fulham 2010). If it happens to you, you embrace it; if not, try to improve next year.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 23-05-2013, 00:01	I guess this means 4 spots instead of 5 for champions path of CL qualifiers. Dinamo Zagreb's W0-D1-L11 group stage run ruined it for the champions.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Lorric Date: 23-05-2013, 00:24	I'd actually be really surprised if they did that. I think they'll just strip 12th of an automatic place and put 12th on the Champions Path.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: mspm89 Date: 23-05-2013, 02:11	I have to say though, i've searched and i don't see any official confirmation from UEFA about this. It might be one of those bluff news.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Lorric Date: 23-05-2013, 02:56	Yeah, I can't find anything either, I've searched two or three times today. And it's just a little stub article as well. But at least they said UEFA confirmed it, they can't just come out with that if it's garbage, can they? Just put out lies?

Author: spoonman
Date: 23-05-2013, 14:38

According to The Indedendent, UEFA will decide tomorrow.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/berlin-to-host-2015-champi
ons-league-final-8629258.html

In principle, it's a good thing to award a CL berth to the EL winner. But I never want to see a Champions League with 6 teams from any nation. Never ever. If the situation arises, let the CL/EL winner have play-offs against #3/#4 of their own country. Simples.

Author: spoonman
Date: 23-05-2013, 14:52

Sky News correspondent Paul Kelso says: "Could be 5 teams from one country."

https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/337543009082175488

This is bad news. 4 teams per country is already too many, 5 is a joke. I've always said that, and the fact that Germany has 4 berths now isn't going to change that.

Chances are that the top nations will monopolise European competitions more than ever. CL finals are now rotating between England and Germany. This is unhealthy.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 23-05-2013, 15:07

I wonder what that means "It could be 5 teams from 1 country". That would mean either the CL or EL winner could give an extra spot to a top 3 country. What what if both the CL and EL winner are from the same top 3 country and are both outside the national top 4. Then you would have 6 teams.

Or might it mean that no country gets 4 spots any more without the TH's? And the top 3 countries also get 3 spots (+4 EL spots). Then if both the CL and EL winners are outside the national top 3 that country will have 5 spots.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: spoonman Date: 23-05-2013, 15:18	I guess they'd simply allow a 5th team, i.e. CL or EL title holder. If both TH spots are used by a Top 3 nation, N4 would still miss out.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: executor Date: 23-05-2013, 15:20	Forza-AZ: Or might it mean that no country gets 4 spots any more without the TH's? And the top 3 countries also get 3 spots (+4 EL spots). Then if both the CL and EL winners are outside the national top 3 that country will have 5 spots. Obviously not. Top 3 countries are NOT going to lose a CL spot.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Cloakmaster Date: 23-05-2013, 16:15	I still don't like it. EL is EL, and CL is CL. Sure the EL winner will be a better team than one of the at least 2 champions comming out of q2, but even a 'weak' national champion IS a champion, but the EL winner is not. Any European winner gets a direct entry to defend the own title. With that new rule, defending the EL title becomes impossible.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 23-05-2013, 16:51

Dutch news said that tomorrow there will be an UEFA statement.
Discussion is about:
- EL winner to CL
- 5th team from 1 association to CL
- more teams in EL

personaly I would not like to see more teams from 1 association. 4 is already too much. If it gets to 5, then I hope that there will be more in the Non-champions path. Why not only champions as direct qualifiers? of course it is for the non-top countries much harder to get into the CL then, but it is laready like that nowadays, look at Arsenal, Valencia, Lyon, Schalke, AC Milan playing the qualifiers.
5 to CL, then just 1 in GS, let the rest play qualifiers!

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: spoonman Date: 23-05-2013, 17:16	@Ricardo: Can you specify what "more teams in EL" means? More groups yet again? 12 groups is already a nightmare. On the other hand, if they increased it to 16 and finally got rid of the CL dropouts, we'd at least have a straightforward format.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Edol Date: 23-05-2013, 18:32	In order to make the clubs more interested in the competition, it would be much more effective to just increase the prize money.

Author: mspm89
Date: 23-05-2013, 19:53

IMO, if it is what @spoonman says in the last comment it wouldn't be bad. Possibility of 5 CL berths ONLY if both TH are from the same top 3 country and finish lower than 4th. It's extremely far fetched anyway.

As to the "CL is CL and EL is EL" argument, i just don't get it. Actually, the first time i followed the UEFA Cup about 10 years ago, i just assumed the champion would be awarded a place in CL. It seemed so natural to me, and it disappointed me to realize there was no such thing.

Let's wait for UEFA tomorrow and we'll be clearer of what changes could be made.

Author: Lorric
Date: 23-05-2013, 20:23
Edited by: Lorric
at: 23-05-2013, 20:25

The BBC has an article up now:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22640095

It says they'll still have to qualify. No place in the GS. So where would they end up? Presumably on the non-champions path.

Also, someone in the comments says that the last 10 Europa League winners all qualified for the Champions League the next season anyway, but that can't be right. I know Fulham and Atletico Madrid were both mid-table when they met in the final just off the top of my head. They took the TH spot next year.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: MalcolmW Date: 23-05-2013, 20:28	Of the 13 UEFA/Europa winners from 2001 to 2013, 9 have been in the following season's CL (5 directly to group stage). The other 4 were CSKA Moscow (2005), Sevilla (2006), and Atletico Madrid (2010 and 2012).

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: mspm89 Date: 23-05-2013, 20:42	@Lorric: the article is amiguous about that. It doesn't say the TH will be in the GS, but it doesn't say qualifying rounds either.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Lorric Date: 23-05-2013, 21:24	Well if that's anything to go by, Spain may well be the country to reap the benefits of this if it goes through.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 23-05-2013, 21:28
Edited by: bert.kassies
at: 23-05-2013, 21:29

This ESPN article has a bit more detail. It does not give the answer if the TH will be in GS, but to me that would be the most logical thing to do.

The original ECA proposal also contained a possible place for the other Europa League finalist, in case the Europa League winner already qualified for the Champions League. But that seems to be no option anymore.

Anyway it shows the influence of the ECA. When most clubs want something it's very hard for UEFA to say no.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Friesland Date: 23-05-2013, 22:04	@ bert: ECA delivers 7 of the 14 members to UEFA's Club Competions Committee. The final decision is of course with the EXCO of UEFA, but the CCC can make recommendations on what EXCO should do concerning the UEFA's Club Competitions.

Author: Friesland
Date: 23-05-2013, 22:27

I think allowing the EL winner to CL is a good idea. However, I think there are some more points of discussion.

1) The maximum number of teams per NFA should remain four. Additionally winning either CL or EL should not come at the cost of other teams (e.g. Tottenham's case). That said, each team should only have two teams in the default access list.
2) Since the level would lower if the total number of teams were to remain 32, the number of teams should be reduced to 24.

Awarding the CLTH or ELTH spot to the losing finalist if the winners are already qualified should be no problem, as long as other teams aren't harmed. It would certainly be a much better idea than awarding the losing domestic cup finalist some spot, as that does harm other teams.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Lorric Date: 23-05-2013, 22:33	No, just leave it as it is I say. Maximum of 6 teams which would almost certainly never happen. 12th place to the Champions path, which also almost certainly would never happen. More often than not neither TH placeholder would be used.

Author: Nixda
Date: 24-05-2013, 07:52

I would prefer a solution which nearly everytime limits it to 4 teams:

- first additional TH (CL or EL) forces N4 down to EL
- if both TH are from the same country and outside the top4 i would still force the N4 down to EL, but grant the country an additional team in CLGS

Reasoning: If really both TH come from the same country and couldnt finish in TOP4 in that season i think the league has shown it was really good that season and deserves the bonus team. Tho i wouldnt make this too often so the N4 down force should still happen. Additionally the N4 has in every case the EL TH forces them down a secure EL GS spot. So it doesnt fall too deep.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: paul7 Date: 24-05-2013, 09:15	Another think what uefa should do with europa league is to move the games from Thursday to Tuesday.and champions league to be played on Wednesday and Thursday.i don't know about rest of the people,but after watching champions league matches in the same week,i have no interest to see europa league matches,looks very boring.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: amirbachar Date: 24-05-2013, 11:13	If the EL winner doesn't qualify through the league, it wouldn't make any sense to take away the spot of the 4th placed team. Think of a situation where there are clear top 4 that finish 1-4 every year. Then in a given year the 7th in the previous season wins the EL, and take one of their spots,even though it finished below the top4 in every competition for few years sraight.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 24-05-2013, 12:29	Any 4th in a league shouldn't be in the "Champions" League anyway, so they can never complain if they won't qualify because another team has been the champion in a European Cup.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: spoonman Date: 24-05-2013, 13:08	According to a German news report, it's confirmed. http://www.sport.de/medien/fussball/champions-league/2edc8-171b98-5314-17/europ a-league-sieger-spielt-kuenftig-in-champions-league.html However, it doesn't say specifically if the EL winner gets direct entry to the group phase. From 2015, 16 teams from 12 countries will go straight into the EL group phase.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 24-05-2013, 13:13	For me the Europa League needs less clubs in it. I'd have a 32 team group stage as in the Champions League, no CL teams dropping in at any stage (which reduces the EL by 33 teams in itself) and having less clubs in the qualifiers

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: spoonman Date: 24-05-2013, 13:19	@mjohnson: Clubs from CLQ rounds should definitely have a chance to play EL. You can't punish champions from smaller countries for the fact that most CL places are already occupied by the top 6 nations.

Author: Witkop1983
Date: 24-05-2013, 14:06

I would like to see more nations participating in the group stages... especially when UEFA decides to upgrade ELGS to 64 teams
The 16 extra places could be occupied by 10 losers of the CLQ3 champions path and 6 winners of ties between CLQ2 champions path losers (there are 17 ties now so a slight adjustment in CLQ champions path should be made).

These changes would mean 4 automatic qualifiers to CLQ3 (13-16) and 28 to CLQ2 (17-45) the champions of 46-53 would start in CLQ1.

This would also see some gaps in ELQ because the CLQ3 champions path losers dont drop to ELQ4 anymore. this could be used to upgrade some lower countries cup winners or best placed teams

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Schnapper Date: 24-05-2013, 14:22 Edited by: Schnapper at: 24-05-2013, 14:27	So Liechtenstein clubs have finally got a way to play in the CL.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Witkop1983 Date: 24-05-2013, 14:23	how?

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Schnapper Date: 24-05-2013, 14:32	Simply by winning the EL, but it's very unlikely to happen.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Ricardo Date: 24-05-2013, 14:41	So 16 teams direct to EL-GS, just like in CL. Probably the same countries again as in CL. These top countries have done it well. This way they almost got rid of all the qualifiers! top3: 3CL+2Cl direct qualified + 1CL + 1EL direct in PO, with other words 6 guaranteed GS spots. This is really ridiculous!!!

Author: maciejko
Date: 24-05-2013, 14:49

UEFA confirmed:
"The UEFA Europa League winners will be granted access to the play-offs of the subsequent UEFA Champions League season. The UEFA Europa League winners could even gain direct access to the group stage, should the UEFA Champions League title-holders also qualify via their domestic league, thus freeing up a place in the UEFA Champions League group stage. As an effect of the UEFA Europa League winners qualifying for the UEFA Champions League, the current limit of a maximum four teams per association will be increased to five.

Further changes were made to the access list, whereby, in principle, all associations will now have a maximum three teams entering the UEFA Europa League. In addition, the number of teams directly qualified for the group stage will be increased to 16 teams from the top 12 associations (compared to the current six teams from the top six associations)."

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/mediaservices/mediareleases/newsid=1956122.html

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: omonia Date: 24-05-2013, 15:06	So how would the Access List look like? I am very curious to see how things will change in the Qualifying Rounds.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Philipp Date: 24-05-2013, 15:08	For me this sounds like the end of the fair play ranking. So will the nations ranked between 7 and 9 lose an EC-spot? Currently they have four EL-spots...

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 24-05-2013, 15:19	It looks like that. Bad new for Netherlands and other countries that are most of the times in spots 7-9. If there will be only 3 EL-spots for countries 7-9, that will probably mean only 5 teams from these countries get into Europe in stead of 6 now. Unless they get a 3rd CL-spot, but that seems to be unlikely.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Metallica Date: 24-05-2013, 15:23	@Forza-AZ Bad news for our countries, but i hope that we will have 3 teams in CL + 3 in EL

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Philipp Date: 24-05-2013, 15:39	I cannot imagine that these countries will receive an third CL-spot. That would reduce the diversity of CL and I am sure, that is not what the UEFA wants. Furthermore the whole qualification format had to be revised.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Ricardo Date: 24-05-2013, 15:58	So another enhancement of the top-5/6 at the cost of the 7-9. Just like with the split champions/non champions in the CL, where top-5 got more CL spots and 7-9 had to play suddenly qualifiers vs. the top-5 teams i.s.o. against 10-20. This is really getting annoying. I almost would consider banning all European matches from my home. ()!@$&^#$%)^)&#%

Author: Lorric
Date: 24-05-2013, 19:13
Edited by: Lorric
at: 24-05-2013, 19:14

Actually you're wrong there Ricardo. Things just changed for the better for 7-9 vs 5-6.

Before, 1-6 got a team into the GS, and with 4-6 being the bracket that 7-9 want to break into, that puts them at a disadvantage.

Now it's 16 teams from 1-12 into the GS. This I assume means 1-4 get 2 teams into the GS. So 5 and 6 are now on a level playing field with 7-9 in that regard, one team each direct to the GS.

National cups suddenly have more value to them.

I do disagree with this though, all those teams squabbling over just 22 places after the CLQ4 teams drop into the GS, it's going to be very crowded, and might require a 5th qualifying round.

You could make a case for 5th in 1-3 getting a GS place, as those teams are very formidable, but that's it. Cup winners, no. I'm sure an unseeded side would have loved to draw Wigan in the playoff round. Only 5th in Spain, England and Germany could be argued as unfair opponents to have to beat just to make the GS. Anyone else I think an unseeded side has a shot against. I wouldn't have anyone get an auto GS place. I'm okay with the CLQ4 losers dropping to the GS.

Those teams going direct to the GS don't deserve it.

Author: Lorric
Date: 24-05-2013, 20:10
Edited by: Lorric
at: 24-05-2013, 21:12

Some more things from reading the comments. I also don't know why they don't put the Europa League on the Tuesday. Appetiser before the main course seems logical to me.

It does say "in principle" for the maximum 3 teams entering the Europa League. But I'd still be worried if you're 7-9, as they had no problem axing 1-3's 4th EL team, the Intertoto team, which everyone else got to keep. I can't remember if 4-6 had a 4th EL team, but 7-9 got to keep their 4th EL team. Maybe that's over now.

The League Path will now have associations 5-6 in Q3 if there's an EL winner taking the place in Q4. Perhaps this is why there's now a place for country 4's 2nd team in the ELGS.

EDIT: This means 4th, 5th and 6th all mean something. 4th gets that 2nd ELGS team and guaranteed place in CLQ4. 5th gets sometimes a place in CLQ4.

Author: hertolo
Date: 24-05-2013, 20:23

Does a CL spot for the EL winner really change anything? Chances are, the winner already has very good options for getting into CL and is from one of the big countries anyways...

Also, it's not a big motivation for the EL Group Stage teams to really gun for the victory as chances are a Champions League Drop Out will get it anyways... (About half the winners were from CL over the last 9 years, no?)

Do these changes adress the dropouts of CL in any way?

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Marcin Date: 24-05-2013, 20:29	So what do you think how many teams will play in EL group stage specially when now we will have 16 direct qualifiers plus 10 dropouts from CL qualifications, that assuming 48 teams group stage format we will have ONLY 44 teams in last round of qualification of EL.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 24-05-2013, 21:12
Edited by: bert.kassies
at: 24-05-2013, 21:13

Yes, Lorric is right: it will be very crowded in the early qualification rounds.

Suppose that the drain from the Champions League qualifiers remains the same: 15 to EL-Q4 and 10 to EL-GS. And the total number of teams in the group stage remains 48.

The total number of teams = 161 - 3 teams from countries 7-9 + 2 teams from Gibraltar = 160.
16 teams start in the EL-GS, so 144 teams have to start in the qualification rounds, and number of teams in Q4 must be 44.

To get the distribution of teams over the qualification rounds we have 2 equations with 4 unknowns.
Which has many solutions e.g. a solution can be NQ3 = 54, NQ2 = 86, and NQ1 = 90.
All solutions lead to an increase in the number of teams in Q1 (and/or Q2), which means an earlier start for many teams.

Others can be found e.g. with an Excel sheet where column A is number of teams that start in Q4 and column B is number of teams that start in Q3.
Then formulas in subsequent columns can calculate NQ1 = 56 + 6*A + 2*B, NQ2 = NQ1/2 - 7*A - 3*B, and NQ3 = NQ2/2 + B.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Marcin Date: 24-05-2013, 21:23 Edited by: Marcin at: 24-05-2013, 21:27	Bert it means no teams will start from EL QR 4. Even teams from big 3 countries would have to start from QR 3. Edit: I was wrong just 3 teams from Big 3 starting from round 4, 26 qualifiers from EL QR 3 and 15 dropouts from CL QR3.

Author: Friesland
Date: 24-05-2013, 21:29

@ Lorric: The top-8 nations all lost the Intertoto spot without getting anything a spot in return. For the nations ranked 9 and lower the Intertoto Cup spot was exchanged for an EL spot, while the nation ranked 9 got an extra spot in addition.

Also before 2006 nations had 2 Intertoto Cup spots (not always used), that said the nations ranked 7 or 8 will go from 8 spots (including IC) to just 5 spots. I wouldn't have a problem with that as long as the top-6 countries (especially top-3) would also put sacrifice some things. They do not. In stead they get the possibility of a fifth team in the CL.

@ bert: there is also a probability that nations other than 7-9 will also lose an EL spot(s). The article says that the maximum is three, it doesn't say everyone gets three.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Marcin Date: 24-05-2013, 21:34	@Friesland it leaves us with possibility that countries from ranking place 22-54 can lose their fourth place in Europe that they got not so long ago. But this scenario is not realistic.

Author: Lorric
Date: 24-05-2013, 21:59
Edited by: Lorric
at: 24-05-2013, 21:59

I suppose it wouldn't be much of a stretch to expect everyone to have to pass at least two rounds. Most of the Auto-GS sides were from Q4 or the GS.

Q4 currently contains 18 teams from the top 15 nations (2 from 7-9), plus the CLQ3 losers. So that's 8 plus the CLQ3 losers. It wouldn't be a stretch to eliminate the extra teams from 7-9, and drop the remaining 5 to ELQ3, who would be from 5,6,13,14,15.

This would leave 15 or 16 teams in Q4 from CLQ3.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Lorric Date: 24-05-2013, 22:28	Does anybody have any idea when UEFA might release the new access list? 2014/15 here has been all mucked up now! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_UEFA_Europa_League

Author: hapoel_tel_aviv
Date: 25-05-2013, 08:04

if i understand,
EL GS >>> NC4 CL (i dont believe that uefa put the EL GS round champions).
NC4 CL there will be 10 teams :
EL GS , 4th (1-3) + 6 winners cl nc q3
Nc Q3 will be 12 teams (2nd 4-15).
this means 6 teams go to EL ncq Q4 (not 5 smae today.)
its say more 3 teams - two from Gibraltar, one more from q3-NC.
its why 4th not in 7-9 removed from EL.

always a second option that EL-GS go to round champions.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: SirHenri Date: 25-05-2013, 08:32 Edited by: SirHenri at: 25-05-2013, 08:35	"As an effect of the UEFA Europa League winners qualifying for the UEFA Champions League, the current limit of a maximum four teams per association will be increased to five." This leaves everything wide open, from only 3 normal qualifiers + 2 TH or like it is now + 1 TH (which ?!?)

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 25-05-2013, 08:58

It will (most likely) be like this:
-Both TH's will qualify for CL
-Each country will get it's normal amount of CL-spot
-If both TH's are from the same country (with 4 CL-spots) and both are outside the top 4, then the 4rd will be downgraded to EL

So a country can have max 5 CL-spots in these 2 cases:
-country has 4 CL spots + at least 1 TH outside top 4
-country has 3 CL spots + both TH's outside top 3

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: mitch Date: 25-05-2013, 13:50	Does this "leagues will have a maximum of three teams in EL" mean that countries that e.g. have 1CL berth + 3EL berths (practicly all leagues from #13 downwards) will lose one EL berth as that CL team can qualify to EL after losing in CL qualification stages so they will have 1CL berth + 2EL berths?

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 25-05-2013, 15:13	@mitch I don't think so, because then you can't give any country more then 3 total spots in CL+EL. It will just mean that no country has more then 3 teams starting in EL (Fair Play teams not counted).

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: mitch Date: 25-05-2013, 16:22	But I find it weird that this rule "maximum of 3 teams in EL" is mentioned in this short article on UEFA site. It must be something significant, as taking one team off of only three leagues (out of 54 now with Gibraltar) is not so important, as far as I am concerned.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 25-05-2013, 17:09	It is just mentioned as an example of the changes that have been made to the access list. What the other changes are isn't known yet. UEFA didn't publish the full access list yet as far as I know.

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: Friesland Date: 25-05-2013, 17:59	It think it's very strange: They allow 4 teams in CL, but only 3 in EL. The other way around seems more natural, in my opinion. True, teams in CL can drop to EL, but then eliminate the CLGS --> ELR2 route!

Author: unclerbh
Date: 25-05-2013, 19:58

I have made the following assumptions:

Number of teams in EL per association restricted to 3 = Number of teams per association that START in EL

Associations ranked 7-9 will NOT lose a place: their N3 teams will enter NCQ route for CL (along with RU for associations ranked 13-15); this path now requires an earlier round

12 Cup Winners automatically qualify for EL-GS

EL Winner (th) enters CQ route for CL: 6 teams to qualify from this; CL TH spot effectively disregarded in line with proposals

All associations have same allocations, Gibraltar has only CH/CW/RU (as San Marino, Andorra)

Losers from CL Q rounds continue to drop into EL (numbers shown)

If anything it makes it considerably neater. No need for small early round in CL as numbers work better. Associations ranked 1-12: CH & CW to respective GS; 13-15 CH & RU to CL Q, CW to EL-PO

EL rounds of entry distributed roughly in line with expectations...

Just speculation, Word document here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?pbljn3xdwdqr2et

Author: Friesland
Date: 25-05-2013, 20:39
Edited by: Friesland
at: 25-05-2013, 20:48

Yes, I think the ELTH will be in the Champions path, because they are "next in line" in the CLTH is already qualified through the domestic league. If both CLTH and ELTH qualified through the domestic league, champions of nation 13 are next in line, so ELTH and champions of nation 13 are most likely on the same path.

Concerning champions/non-champions qualifiers, I think it will remain 5-5, unless thirds from country 1-3 have to play qualifiers again, in which case it will be 5-8, obviously, which is also the only way I can see the nations 7-9 to keep their 6 spots, perhaps nations 16-18 could gain a spot, in addition. This would lead to the following:

Champions Path:
Q1: 16 teams
Q2: 30 teams {22 new + 8 Q1 winners}
Q3: 18 teams {3 new + 15 Q2 winners}
Q4: 10 teams {1 new + 9 Q3 winners}

Non-champions Path:
Q3: 16 teams
Q4: 16 teams {8 new + 8 Q3 winners}

Unfortunately, I can't see that happening...

Re: EL winner to CL
Author: mspm89 Date: 27-05-2013, 06:48	I guess we'll just have to wait till the new access list is issued. Enough head-cracking it takes just understanding it thru and thru. Formulating it from the existing one (we assume that it won't be made from scratch) will be a pain in the a$$ :D