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Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 16-05-2013, 09:48	The topic has been archived, see Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 16-05-2013, 12:58	Big weekend ahead with several leagues concluding. Pretty certain the title holder entry won't be needed for the Europa League, unless Chelsea suddenly forget how to defend and lose 16-0

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: GalwayGerry Date: 16-05-2013, 13:26	Hi, can someone tell me is the CL QR2 likely to be regionalised? If so, do we know how they split it? eg. northern Europe etc. I'd be specifically interested in what teams Sligo Rovers are likely to be put up against in the draw. Thanks

Author: PnavE_81
Date: 16-05-2013, 13:33
Edited by: PnavE_81
at: 16-05-2013, 13:42

Big weekend ahead with several leagues concluding. Pretty certain the title holder entry won't be needed for the Europa League, unless Chelsea suddenly forget how to defend and lose 16-0

when chelsea ends in 4th place and loose the play-off for a spot in the CL, they still end up in de EL...do they still take the 1 ranking spot of the TH there?

and another question...
if a EL winner has to start in Q3 for the CL in the following year and is eliminated, it goes to EL Q4...or can they than use the TH spot in the EL? (would be really weird if they could, but you never know...)

EDIT: I found the answers of the first question in the rules:
9.02 f the titleholder takes
part in the group stage, it is always the top seed.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 16-05-2013, 14:48
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 16-05-2013, 14:49

@PnavE_81
and another question...
if a EL winner has to start in Q3 for the CL in the following year and is eliminated, it goes to EL Q4...or can they than use the TH spot in the EL? (would be really weird if they could, but you never know...)

They will play in EL Q4. It happened to Shakhtar Donetsk in 2009. They won the EL and started in CL Q3. They lost to Timisoara and then played in EL Q4 versus Sivasspor.

Once a EL-winner qualifies for CL(Q) they forfeit their right to the EL-TH-spot. They will however still be top seed when they end up in EL Q4 and EL GS.

Author: Lorric
Date: 16-05-2013, 15:09
Edited by: Lorric
at: 16-05-2013, 15:15

@ GalwayGerry

We can't know for sure. It's always announced at the last minute. But they've done it for I believe the last 3 years now. I don't see why they'd change it. If it isn't, then you could get anyone off the seeded side. If it's regionalised it would likely be a team like BATE/Celtic/Molde/Ekranas/Elfsborg/HJK Helsinki. You can look on wiki at past editions to see what the Northern group looked like.

EDIT: The Polish champion might be an option as well.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: GalwayGerry Date: 16-05-2013, 17:05	Thank you Lorric. Can you tell me is it decided already who is at home and who is away for each leg? I have heard seeded team is away first in Champions League, is that true?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 16-05-2013, 17:14	You're welcome. No. The order of legs will be drawn randomly. At least I think they will. I've never seen anything on here anyway. They always have been drawn randomly, and I'm sure if that was known to be changing someone on here would have noticed.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Cloakmaster Date: 16-05-2013, 17:41	are you sura about EL champion being top seed even after CL participation? I Would not think so. Shaktar was seeded, of course, even seeded pot 1 in Group Stage. But i think this was just because of their hich coefficient. I would apply that "title holder is top seed"-rule only if the EL champion did not play in CL(-q)

Author: Lorric
Date: 16-05-2013, 18:05
Edited by: Lorric
at: 16-05-2013, 19:25

I would be surprised if an EL-winning team dropped from the CL and got put in Pot A despite not having enough points to be in Pot A.

It's certainly unlikely to ever come up though. Pot A in the EL doesn't require a very high number of points, and winning the EL would take you a long way towards Pot A on it's own. This year, the top seed in Pot B was Basel with 53.360. This year's Europa League winner Chelsea ran up 27pts. Half way there already. It wouldn't take a great deal at all in the other 4 years to earn Pot A.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 16-05-2013, 19:15	@GalwayGerry The only round in which home/away order is fixed is the first round after the group stage. The seeded teams (groupwinners and best 4 3rd placed teams from CL) will play away first. In all other rounds home/away order is drawn randomly.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 16-05-2013, 20:14	Anderlecht could win the title tonight. If they beat Zulte-Waregem they will qualify for the Champions League. A win coupled with Club Brugge failing to beat Genk would see Anderlecht crowned champions

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: putje Date: 16-05-2013, 21:05	@Mjohnson, You mixed the games on the situation in Belgium. Anderlecht can earn their place in CHL group tonight, but they have to win in Lokeren. And the game between revelation Zulte and Club Brugge have to be a draw. In all other situations, the decision will fall sunday. If Genk doesn't win tonight, they can't do better than their cup winners spot in EL Q4.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 16-05-2013, 21:08	Sounds good, the only problem is that Anderlecht plays Lokeren today and Zulte with Club Brugge.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 16-05-2013, 22:07	Note to self- double check fixtures before posting :P

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 16-05-2013, 23:32

Belgium last matchday:
Anderlecht-Zulte Waregem
Club Brugge-Genk

European spots:
Anderlecht: CL GS (if they win or draw) or CL Q3 (if they lose)
Zulte Waregem: CL GS (if they win), CL Q3 (if they draw, or if they lose and Club Brugge doesn't win) or EL Q3 (if they lose and Club Brugge wins)
Genk: EL Q4
Club Brugge: CL Q3 (if they win and Zulte loses) or EL Q3 (if they don't win or Zulte doesn't lose)
Standard: testmatch versus Gent or OH Leuven
winner testmatch: EL Q2

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: paul7 Date: 17-05-2013, 00:59	Moldova.Milsami not qualified yet.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 17-05-2013, 08:24	Milsami is listed as qualified because Veris, founded in 2011, cannot obtain a UEFA license since they don't exist for at least 3 years.

Author: mjohnson1989
Date: 17-05-2013, 09:43

This weekends Champions League permutations:

England: Chelsea will secure third with a win. Arsenal will secure at least fourth with a win, depending on Chelsea's result. Tottenham must win and hope Arsenal don't

Germany: Winner of Schalke v Freiburg gets fourth, draw lets in Eintracht Frankfurt if they win big

Italy: AC Milan will finish third if they win. If they lose, Fiorentina will finish above them with a win

Portugal: Porto will win the title if they win. If they fail to win Benfica will win the title with a win

France: Lyon will secure third if they win and Lille fail to win. If Lille lose, a draw will be enough for Lyon

Russia: CSKA Moscow will seal the title if they win, or if Zenit St Petersburg fail to win

Ukraine: Metalist Kharkiv will secure second if they better Dynamo Kiev's result

Belgium: Anderlecht will seal title with a win. Zulte-Waregem will secure at least second with a win, will win title if they win and Anderlecht lose

Austria: Austria Vienna will seal the title if they better Red Bull Salzburg's result

Slovakia: Slovan Bratislava will seal the title if they win

Montenegro: Sutjeska will seal the title if they win and Buducnost Podgorica fail to win

Luxembourg: Fola Esch will seal title if they win

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 17-05-2013, 10:21	@mrjohnson Zulte-Waregem play with Anderlecht, so if they win than means that Anderlecht lose.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 17-05-2013, 12:23	@mjohnson1989 Belgium: Anderlecht will seal title with a win. Zulte-Waregem will secure at least second with a win, will win title if they win and Anderlecht lose -Anderlecht will seal title (and CL GS) with a draw. -Zulte Waregem will seal title (and CL-GS) with a win. They will seal CL Q3 with a draw or if Club Brugge fails to win -Club Brugge will seal CL Q3 with a win if Zulte loses.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: roland Date: 17-05-2013, 15:28	In Belgium there will next week be an additional EL play-off between Standard and, probably, Gent.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: paul7 Date: 18-05-2013, 00:27	If Chelsea qualifies for champions league,the cup winner of 35.Lithuania and 36.Moldova a moved from 1st round to 2nd round.is that right ?thanks.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 18-05-2013, 08:43	@paul7 No that isn't correct. Because Chelsea qualifies for at least EL Q4, the Cup winners of countries 33 and 34 (Ireland and Slovenia) are already moved up to Q2. No more countries will be moved up.

Author: Nixda
Date: 18-05-2013, 10:16

@Forza

sure?

Currently Berts accesslist has 48 teams (incl. TH) in GS and 63 teams in Q4. If TH goes CL(Q) then we have to move either the additional team from Q4 to GS or a team from Q3 to Q4 to make up for enough winners in Q4 to fill GS.

I thought they prefer to move up teams to Q4 instead to GS. Last year was a special case as N4 was "forced down" from CLQ and used the open spot before any moveing up was done.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 18-05-2013, 11:34
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 18-05-2013, 11:39

If Chelsea qualifies for CL then the CW of country 7 will start directly in the GS. The same was the case last year. And that had nothing to do with the N4 of England that had to play EL because of Chelsea's CL-win.

It is just normal procedure to move up a team from the previous round if there is a gap in a round.

Last season there were 2 gaps in EL-GS:
1) Chelsea as English Cup-winners qualfied for CL-GS as CL-winners
2) Atletico qualfied for EL-GS as 5th in Spain and also as EL-winners

The 2 gaps were filled by Tottenham (4th in England having to play EL because of Chelsea's CL-win) and Rubin Kazan (Russia's (country 7) Cup winner).

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 18-05-2013, 17:26	Following the final round of matches in the Bundesliga, here is the full list of European qualifiers: Champions League Bayern Munich (GS) Borussia Dortmund (GS) Bayer Leverkusen (GS) Schalke (PO) Europa League Freiburg Eintracht Frankfurt Stuttgart (Cup Finalists)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 18-05-2013, 17:44	So the Germans get what they want - a seeded team in CLQ4.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 18-05-2013, 17:54	Yes I think it's certain that Schalke will be seeded. They may even be top seeds depending what happens in England and Italy this weekend

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 18-05-2013, 18:01	The big match in Serbia will be kicking off in 90mins I believe.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 18-05-2013, 18:38	Bala Town have won the Welsh Play-Offs and will enter the Europa League in the First Qualifying Round (Co-efficient 0.516) Omonia Nicosia have secured third in Cyprus and will enter in the Second Qualifying Round (Co-efficient 10.366)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 18-05-2013, 19:39	Senica lost today, so Slovan Bratislava have an unassailable 7 points lead 2 rounds to go. They`re the champions and Zilina qualified for EL courtesy of their place in the cup final vs. Slovan.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: TimJohnson Date: 18-05-2013, 21:26	All 3 Welsh Europa League teams are making their debut next season. Good luck to them all

Author: Lorric
Date: 18-05-2013, 21:36

Well the Serbian match is over. I watched it and it was an ugly, dirty, stop-start match devoid of any quality or excitement. Both teams seemed more like they wanted to disrupt the other team more than anything else. Plenty of diving. Plenty of handbags. Partizan won it 1-0 with a free kick in the last minute of normal time to make the place go mental. Looks like business as usual in Serbia. Partizan almost home. 5pts clear at the top, 2 games to go.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: minha_galera Date: 18-05-2013, 21:55	Legia almost secured the title in Poland with a 1-0 win over 2nd Lech today. They have 5 points advantage with 3 matches to go.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 18-05-2013, 22:03	On Wednesday, Partizan are at bottom of the league Smederevo, who only have 15pts. That should be when the Serbian champion is confirmed.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: luckyluke Date: 18-05-2013, 22:06	what about turkey? wiki says that fener is sure for CL but wiki also says that classification is by GD besiktas have one game to play with 3 points and 1 goal behind fener

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 18-05-2013, 22:52	In Cyprus, Omonia Nicosia clinched the ELN3 spot and will start fron ELQ2

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 18-05-2013, 23:16	Sheriff Tiraspol have been crowned Moldovan champions and will enter the Champions League in the Second Qualifying Round (co-efficient 11.533). Sheriff are guaranteed to be seeded in the draw

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: TP Date: 19-05-2013, 15:49	Zalgiris Vilnius won against FK Siauliai after penalties in Lithuanian cup final. -> Kruoja Pakruojis to EL Q1 (1.300)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: TP Date: 19-05-2013, 15:52	St. Johnstone (Scotland) to EL Q2.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Farkas Date: 19-05-2013, 18:30	Anderlecht champion in Belgium!!

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 19-05-2013, 18:54 Edited by: Lorric at: 19-05-2013, 18:56	All the relevant teams won. Thus: Chelsea - CLGS Arsenal - CLQ4 Tottenham - ELQ4 Meanwhile, Alex Ferguson finished his career strangely, with a 5-5 draw at West Brom.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 19-05-2013, 19:09 Edited by: Lorric at: 19-05-2013, 19:16	Tottenham are so unlucky. Last season they got 4th and were denied by Chelsea's CL win. This season, their total of 72pts is their highest ever total. Any other season in Premier League history it would have been enough to qualify for the Champions League. Not good enough this season. I hope AVB takes the Europa League seriously again.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 19-05-2013, 19:30	Metalist Kharkiv to CL!!!! Metalurh Donetsk to EL.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 19-05-2013, 19:36	I take it you prefer having Metalist there than Kiev?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 19-05-2013, 20:38	Zulte-Waregem have secured second in Belgium and will not be seeded. AC Milan kick off in a few minutes knowing a win will see them get third

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 19-05-2013, 20:50	After today's matches all 22 automatic CL qualifiers are known Manchester United Manchester City Chelsea Barcelona Real Madrid Atletico Madrid Bayern Munich Borussia Dortmund Bayer Leverkusen Juventus Napoli Porto Benfica Paris Saint-Germain Marseilles CSKA Moscow Ajax Shakhtar Donetsk Galatasaray Olympiakos Anderlecht Copenhagen No real surprises in my opinion

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 19-05-2013, 21:28 Edited by: bugylibicska at: 19-05-2013, 21:38	``take it you prefer having Metalist there than Kiev?`` Yes. It`s time for a change! At half-time Milan is losing in Siena, Fiorentina winning in Pescara. I`d love to see Milan in the EL after Arsenal escaped.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 19-05-2013, 21:39	Porto have secured the Portugese title and an unbeaten season

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 19-05-2013, 21:42	Yes, that list of 22 teams is comprised entirely of the usual suspects. Some will say that's bad because it's boring. Others will say it's good because they're the best.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 19-05-2013, 21:51	Thanks for the tip bugylibicska. I'm going to go and see if I can get a stream to watch Milan fight for their CL lives. A draw won't be enough if Fiorentina win as Fiorentina have Milan beat on head to head and that's the serie a tie breaker.

Author: bugylibicska
Date: 19-05-2013, 22:04
Edited by: bugylibicska
at: 19-05-2013, 22:43

You`re welcome.
Half an hour left and Milan is still down 0:1 at Siena and Inter is getting a nice dose of humiliation losing at home vs. Udinese 4:1 who will seal their EL place with this win. Fiorentina are winning 4:0 in Pescara.
Update:
Sometimes wishes come true, NOT. Fiorentina (Florence my favourite city in Italy) could not join Juventus and Napoli to the CL and instead they joined Udinese and the winner of the cup final Roma-Lazio to the EL. The old foe Siena took revenge on Florence again and lost to Milan 2:1, the goals coming in the last 7 minutes.

So, old, tired Milan to the CL again. Boring.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 19-05-2013, 22:33	Milan dive their way to a penalty. Balotelli scores. 1-1. 7mins left. Both sides down to 10 men. Expecting lots of injury time.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 19-05-2013, 22:35 Edited by: Lorric at: 19-05-2013, 22:38	2-1 to Milan now. Looks like Fiorentina got screwed. EDIT: Commentator's even saying the free kick which led to that 2nd goal was questionable. I didn't see it for typing up the 1-1 post.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 19-05-2013, 22:43 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 19-05-2013, 22:44	Milan hold onto the 1-2, so they are in CL Q4 Fiorentina in EL Q4, Udinese in EL Q3 Winner of the Cup final (Lazio-AS Roma) will be in EL-GS

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 19-05-2013, 22:43	It's over. Milan have cheated their way into the CL. Serie a is a joke.

Author: psw
Date: 20-05-2013, 07:41

I have the following question about the GS pot for Ajax.
Currently assumed that Ajax should occupy Pot 3 in any case
Ajax Ned 64.945
Olympiakos Piraeus Gre 57.800 Galatasaray Tur 54.400
...
But the list of teams with currently unknown seeding properties contains the entry
CL-QR4nc *4 64.945 - 95.800 3 2
Coefficient 64.945 virtually corresponds to PSV
PSV Eindhoven *3 Ned 64.945
So, the coefs of Ajax and PSV are the same. But according CL Regulations we should use last season coef in the case of equality.
And Ajax with last season coef 9.8428 should be ahead of PSV (5.8428)
And PSV can not be the last team in the Pot 2, in this case the collision should be resolved in the favour of Ajax.
And theoretical prediction of the Pot 3 for Ajax seems to be invalid and there is a small theoretical possibility of Pot 2 for Ajax (yes, I'm admitting that this possibility is quite small

.

It looks that this scenario can be realized in the case of Bayern M�nchen successin the CL
Benfica goes to the 1st Pot, uncertain 2nd Pot slots originates from 3 4* teams and 3 empty (6 total). So all 6 teams with max Pot = 2 can be in this Pot and Ajax can be in the Pot 2.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 20-05-2013, 10:30
Edited by: bert.kassies
at: 20-05-2013, 10:32

psw, you are right about Ajax and PSV rankings.

But Ajax can only be in pot 2 if some big clubs don't qualify for the group stage from CL-Q4. Under the assumption that seeded teams in CL-Q4 qualify there are currently 17 teams ranked higher then Ajax.

FC Barcelona             Esp 157.605
Bayern M�nchen           Ger>144.865
Chelsea                  Eng 137.592
Real Madrid              Esp 136.605
Manchester United        Eng 130.592
Arsenal *4               Eng 113.592
FC Porto                 Por 104.833
Benfica                  Por 102.833
Atl�tico Madrid          Esp  99.605
Shakhtar Donetsk         Ukr  94.951
AC Milan *4              Ita  93.829
Schalke 04 *4            Ger >84.865
Olympique Marseille      Fra  78.800
CSKA Moscow              Rus  77.766
Paris Saint-Germain      Fra  71.800
Juventus                 Ita  70.829
Manchester City          Eng  70.592

and Valencia, Lyon, and Zenit can also be there.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: namkolu Date: 20-05-2013, 14:22	There is a small mistake in Turkey's qualification list. Besiktas finished the league as 3rd, Bursaspor as 4th. So, according to the cup final, Besiktas will be eu/Q2 or Q3 (not Q3 or Q4), Bursaspor will be eu/Q3 or Q4 (not Q2 or Q3).

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 20-05-2013, 14:44	@namkolu There's no mistake. Just think about it: if Besiktas finished AHEAD of Bursaspor, why would they start earlier?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: namkolu Date: 20-05-2013, 17:10	@executor Yes, you are right! Just a misunderstanding about terminology... Thanks..

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: THEPOSH Date: 20-05-2013, 19:11	Aalborg will take the last EL spot in Denmark, edging Midtjylland by a single goal in the final standing. Imagine playing 33 matches and in the end, a single goal determines whether you qualify for EL or not

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 20-05-2013, 20:38	Must be gut wrenching to lose out by that small a margin. I work at a County League club and our league last season was determined on goals scored!

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 20-05-2013, 21:16 Edited by: Lorric at: 20-05-2013, 21:17	That's good for Denmark and Aalborg. Aalborg's last chance to use their run 5 years ago. They'll be seeded right through the qualifiers. They're going to have to perform and perform well or lose that.

Author: Lorric
Date: 20-05-2013, 21:28
Edited by: Lorric
at: 21-05-2013, 00:51

19.640, easily enough to be seeded through the qualifiers. 15.640 of that is going to drop after next season. They're going to need to collect A LOT of points to stay seeded in the qualifying rounds after next year.

There are more teams like that with all or too many of their eggs in one basket in a make or break situation. Anorthosis is another team. They've repeatedly failed miserably to get through the qualifiers despite being seeded all the way, I don't know if they've even made it to the playoff round since then. Last chance for them too. They've got 17.366 with 9.266 of that loaded into their last year.

Both of them start out in Q2.

Rosenborg in Q1 are also in this situation. 16.835, 6.500 in their last year, need to do what they did last year and pass through all 4 rounds, or they drop their seeded status.

Interesting little subplot for next year.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 20-05-2013, 21:31	Notice this hasn't been mentioned yet- according to wiki, the final decision on Malaga's appeal over their European ban will be made on 4 June. I also notice that Rayo Vallecano have been denied a licence, so as it stands 9th placed Sevilla will be in next season's Europa League

Author: Lorric
Date: 20-05-2013, 21:44
Edited by: Lorric
at: 20-05-2013, 21:46

Alright, so I decided I want to check out Anorthosis' failures since they got seeded, and keep in mind that was for getting into the CL under the old system and when Cypriot teams were seen as fodder, that was a jaw dropper at the time. After taking out Pyunic Yerevan, they took out Rapid Vienna then Olympiakos to get in. Then they beat Panathinaikos and got draws with Werder Bremen twice and Internazionale. So after going on a run like that, it's surprising just how poorly they've fared since then.

Next year, 2009/10, ELQ1, beat Kaerjeng. Q2, lost to Petrovac.

2010/11, ELQ1, beat Banants. Q2, beat Sibenik. Q3, beat Cercle Brugge. Okay, I was wrong, they got to the playoff round. Q4, lost to CSKA Moscow, so I guess they hadn't quite hit enough points to be seeded there.

2011/12 - ELQ2, beat Gagra. Q3, lost to Rabotnicki.

2012/13 - ELQ2, beat Levadia Talinn. Q3, lost to Dila Gori. And their fans brought about the whole mess up that got Dila Gori seeded in Q4 and beaten by a lucky Maritimo.

So I'll give them their due, they did well in 2010/11, beat a Belgian team and got a hard draw in Q4, so I was wrong, they did reach the playoff round once. But losing to teams from Montenegro, Macedonia and Georgia is big underachievement for me.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: THEPOSH Date: 20-05-2013, 23:11	Good point about Aalborg's points. I hadn't thought about it. If you are right, it could be the first time with three teams in GS for Denmark?

Author: Lorric
Date: 21-05-2013, 00:49
Edited by: Lorric
at: 21-05-2013, 00:54

Well it will still require a seed to lose somewhere.

Copenhagen get a free ride to the CLGS, Aalborg's seeding says they'll get to the ELGS but that's far from a guarantee, they have to beat three opponents.

You've got three chances. Presuming Aalborg win through. Nordsjaelland will get two attempts to beat a seeded side to get group stage football. Esbjerg in ELQ4 will also get a shot, beat one seed, get group stage football. Randers would need to beat two seeds.

Author: omonia
Date: 21-05-2013, 08:49

Anorthosis' team this year is much worse than the previous seasons you have mentioned.
They started the season very well and until February they were unbeaten at the top of the league but until 2 matchdays ago they had only one win against the weakest club of the league.
Imagine, they were 19 point ahead of Omonia who were on the 5th place after 20 matchdays and 12 matchdays later Omonia went ahead of them after beating them on the playoffs.
Anorthosis have 15 million euros debt (which is a huge deal for a Cypriot club)and they are having difficulties in getting a UEFA Licence for June.
Also, many players are about to exit the team, the current coach as well.
They have yet to play in EL playoffs as seeded and this is probably their last chance, but I dont'see them getting that far.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: max_m Date: 21-05-2013, 14:14	https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=4FE4712A1E3EA4FA!125&app=Excel&authke y=!AAb2C_o0FkXQ7Ng Why is here Debrecen on the list? Honved is currently in front of them in the Hun. league.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: SirHenri Date: 21-05-2013, 14:22	Debrecen is qualified because the play the cup final vs. the hungarian champion ETO Gyor. Even if they lose, they get the ELQ1-place.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 21-05-2013, 14:24	Debrecen are in the cup final vs. Gyor and because Gyor are the champions Debrecen qualified to the EL.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 22-05-2013, 12:13	Malaga's European ban has been lifted. Just seen it on Sky Sports News

Author: Nixda
Date: 22-05-2013, 12:47

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/protectingthegame/financialfairplay/news
/newsid=1954531.html

The investigatory chamber confirms that M�laga CF (ESP), HNK Hajduk Split (CRO), NK Osijek (CRO), FC Dinamo Bucureşti (ROU), FK Partizan (SRB) and FK Vojvodina (SRB) have fulfilled all conditions imposed by the CFCB, and therefore all suspended sanctions that had been imposed will not apply.

This does only talk about the suspended sanctions, does this include only the additional year or both?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lusankya Date: 22-05-2013, 14:25	Only the additional season.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 22-05-2013, 18:51	Partizan are the champs. 2-0 win.

Author: ransborg
Date: 22-05-2013, 21:32
Edited by: ransborg
at: 22-05-2013, 21:33

Definately last chance for Aalborg, I have been hoping all season that they would make it, to allow for Denmark to have a decent chance to catch up with 15th place, which would require 3 teams in GS.
They have, just like Anorthosis, been underperforming heavily since their great season:

08-09:
Defeated Modrica and Kaunas(who took Rangers' seeded spot) in CL-Q. Finished 3rd with 6 points, 4 against Celtic, 1 against each of Man United and Villareal. Defeated Deportivo twice in UC, and then pushed Man City to penalties which were lost.

09-10:
Kicked out by Slavija after a draw and a lose.

10-11:
Failed to qualify, ended 5th in league. Instead they spent their season fighting against relegation, getting saved by a last minute goal by another team on the last matchday.

So they have something to show after wasting beautiful seeding like that!

Author: Lorric
Date: 22-05-2013, 22:03
Edited by: Lorric
at: 22-05-2013, 22:06

Heh. Might as well run through Rosenborg's stats as well so we have all three. I wonder if these three teams know what's at stake for them?

08/09 - UEFA Cup. They'll likely have to match the points gained here to remain a seeded side. Keep in mind the first round was worth full points.

Rosenborg started out from the Intertoto Cup, taking down Ekranas and NAC Breda to get Q2. There they beat Djurgarden and in R1 beat Brondby in both legs to collect 4pts. In the GS, they got draws with Club Brugge and Copenhagen, and lost to Saint Etienne and Valencia.

09/10 - Again, Rosenborg needed to get in the back door, this time via fair play. ELQ1, beat NSI Runavik. Q2, lost to Karabakh.

10/11 - CLQ2, beat Linfield. Q3, beat AIK. Q4, lost to Copenhagen. ELGS, they got a single win over Aris. Lost the rest vs Aris, Atletico Madrid and Bayer Leverkusen.

11/12 - CLQ2, beat Breidablik. Q3, lost to Plzen. ELQ4, lost to AEK Larnaca.

12/13 - ELQ1 to the GS, beat Crusaders, Ordabasy, Servette and Legia Warsaw. GS, they beat Rapid Vienna twice. They lost twice to both Metalist Kharkiv and Bayer Leverkusen.

So they've sprinkled a few points around, just enough to stay seeded. They're in danger now due to the drop of the 07/08 season which was their best, and the 08/09 season is now their best.

07/08, CLQ2, beat Astana. Q3, beat Tampere United. GS, beat Valencia twice and got a draw with Chelsea. Lost to Chelsea and lost twice to Schalke. It was good enough for third over Valencia, ELR3, they lost both legs to Fiorentina.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 22-05-2013, 22:13	Hajduk Split just won the Croatian cup. Only one European spot remains, it will be decided in the last league round between Split and Rijeka. Split have 1 point advantage and better head to head vs. Rijeka. CL = Dinamo Zagreb (Q2) CW = Hajduk Split (Q2) EL2 = Lokomotiva Zagreb (Q2) EL3 = Split or Rijeka (Q2)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Todor Date: 22-05-2013, 22:21	CSKA finished third in Bulgaria and took the EL3 berth with a coefficient of 8.450

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 22-05-2013, 22:25	Austria Wien have won the title, meaning Red Bull Salzburg are assured of second

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: NecmiMurat_Istanbul Date: 22-05-2013, 22:42	All is over in Turkey after the cup final where Fenerbah�e beat Trabzonspor by 1-0: CL1=Galatasaray 54.400 (ch/GS) CL2=Fenerbah�e 46.400 (ch/Q3) EL1=Besiktas 34.900 (eu/Q4) EL2=Bursaspor 14.900 (eu/Q3) CF=Trabzonspor 21.400 (eu/Q2)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: NecmiMurat_Istanbul Date: 22-05-2013, 23:07	Austria Wien is Austrian champion and Rapid Wien guaranteed to finish 3rd so they will be in EL Q4 or Q3 depending on the cup final.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: max_m Date: 23-05-2013, 11:49	Thank you SirHenri, i was watching League Cup results in Hungary and got confused One more question? Why is Rayo Valecano on the EL list, did they obitained a licene?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: AlanK Date: 23-05-2013, 16:30	@max_m: No, Rayo has not obtained a license. Should they finish high enough in la Liga to qualify, they will appeal the RFEF's refusal to grant them a license to the TAS. (Politics, politics. Can't we just all play f�tbol?)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 24-05-2013, 09:06	Only 10 Champions League places remaining. A lot of leagues concluding and domestic cup finals this weekend

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 24-05-2013, 10:24	In San Marino, Tre Penne beat La Fiorita last night and will play Libertas in the final on Monday. The winner wins the title and qualifies for the Champions League First Qualifying Round, while the loser joins La Fiorita (cup winners) in the Europa League First Qualifying Round

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: magyarszurker Date: 24-05-2013, 11:08	Most probably Honv�d will get the 3rd EL berth in Hungary since they are facing easy opponents in the last 2 rounds of Hungarian league NB1. Any idea what coefficient number they'll get? Will they be seeded in QR1?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 24-05-2013, 11:21 Edited by: bert.kassies at: 24-05-2013, 11:23	If Honved qualifies they will be seeded in EL-QR1 with a team ranking of 3.850. Check EL seeding.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: magyarszurker Date: 24-05-2013, 12:00	Thanks a lot! I did, but I didn't know which coefficient number refers to which team when the qualified club is not known yet.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: seso Date: 24-05-2013, 12:18	I remember Honved! They had played against Pana many years ago. "Honved" means the Homeland Defense and it is the Hungarian Army team.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 24-05-2013, 13:51	@magyarszurker You can check THIS link. The coefficient of every team is listed there.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 24-05-2013, 14:02	Gibraltar officialy admited as UEFA member! What will happen now with this season's qualification?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont’d again)
Author: MTC Date: 24-05-2013, 14:13 Edited by: MTC at: 24-05-2013, 14:15	After Montenegro joined UEFA in January 2007, their clubs qualified for the 2007–08 UEFA season, the access list changing mid‐season to accommodate them. According to that precedent, Gibraltar’s clubs should qualify for this coming season. This being much later in the season probably makes that less likely though.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 24-05-2013, 15:26	The Guardian says that Gibraltar clubs will play in CL and EL from the 2014/15 season. So no influence on the access list for next season.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 25-05-2013, 12:08	Top two head to head in both Switzerland and Montenegro this weekend. In Montenegro, Sutjeska will seal the title if they avoid defeat to Buducnost this afternoon. In Switzerland, a win for Basel over Grasshopper tomorrow will seal the title, although a win for Grasshopper and defeat for St Gallen will secure their top two place

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 25-05-2013, 17:45	Lech Poznan have managed to lose at home to the Ekstraklasa's bottom side, so Legia Warsaw need only a point from their last two games to win the title, although their goal difference is now 10 better

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: SirHenri Date: 25-05-2013, 17:53 Edited by: SirHenri at: 25-05-2013, 18:01	According to wikipedia (english version) it'S H2H in Poland, so Legia should be champion already, no matter what happens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Ekstraklasa

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 25-05-2013, 18:22	Lech and their craaaaazy home vs away record...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: minha_galera Date: 25-05-2013, 18:41	Poland CL= Legia Warsaw (ch/Q2) CF= Slask Wroclaw (eu/Q2) EL2= Lech Poznan (eu/Q2) EL3= (eu/Q2)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: maciejko Date: 25-05-2013, 18:42	Yes, Legia won Polish championship, Lech and Slask qualified for EL. Slask doesn't have UEFA licence yet - Polish FA will make final licence decisions 28.05. In first sweep (15.05) only six teams got UEFA licence - Legia, Lech, Korona, Lechia, Zaglebie and Piast.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 25-05-2013, 18:54	Ludogrets Razgrad have won the Bulgarian title, beating Levski Sofia to it by a point. Ludogrets will enter the Champions League in the Second Qualifying Round and will be unseeded. Levski Sofia will enter the Europa League in the First Qualifying Round and will be seeded

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 25-05-2013, 19:24 Edited by: Lorric at: 25-05-2013, 19:24	Big banana peel in Round 2 there. Dinamo Zagreb just barely managed to squeeze them out last year. I wonder how they'll do if they draw a less formidable opponent. Though I watched those two play and I can't remember exactly what they did, but I know Razgrad going through would have been a travesty, they were cheating. So I'm not going to feel sorry for them and their unseeded predicament.

Author: Lorric
Date: 25-05-2013, 22:37
Edited by: Lorric
at: 25-05-2013, 22:38

So then, I was honestly torn between the underdog Dortmund or Dortmund going into Pot C and seeing the reaction to that. Dortmund in Pot C it is. Looking forward to the WTF style reactions when the pots show up on TV screens later this year. Perhaps we'll see TV pundits trying to understand it as well and looking silly.

This year's Champions League is over, but in less than a month balls will be coming out of pots for the qualifying stages of the next one.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 25-05-2013, 22:44	For me that was one of the all time great Champions League finals. None of the top sides are going to want to draw Dortmund in the Group Stage next season. Amazing to think that PSG and Juventus could both also be in Pot C next season

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 25-05-2013, 22:57	This also means Benfica in Pot A. I'm sure some comparisons will be made between Benfica and Dortmund.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 26-05-2013, 14:31	Utrecht just took the last Dutch EL-spot by defeating Twente 3-2 on aggregate. CL-GS: Ajax CL-Q3: PSV EL-Q4: AZ EL-Q4: Feyenoord EL-Q3: Vitesse EL-Q2: Utrecht

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 26-05-2013, 17:49	Celtic take the Scottish Cup with a 3-0 win over Hibernian. So Hibernian to ELQ2, Motherwell to ELQ3.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 26-05-2013, 17:54	Sturm Graz have stumbled to fourth in the Austrian Bundesliga after they, Wolfsberger and SV Ried all lost on the final day

Author: bugylibicska
Date: 26-05-2013, 18:39

Rubin Kazan secured their entry to the EL in the last round with Spartak Moskva and Kuban Krasnodar. Anzhi already booked their place before this round.
Here`s an example of garbage journalism. This guy have no idea that the 2012-13 season ended today in Russia, but I hope somebody pays him handsomely.
http://www.soccerway.com/news/2013/May/26/russian-premier-league-wrap-spartak-w
in-as-cska-zenit-anzhi-drop-points/n230875/

Author: AnelZ
Date: 26-05-2013, 19:36
Edited by: AnelZ
at: 26-05-2013, 19:37

Olimpic 0-2 Čelik
GO�K 0-2 Borac
�iroki Brijeg 4-1 �eljezničar
Sarajevo 5-0 Radnik (5 goals by Emir Had�ić )

Final Table:
1. �eljezničar 66 pts - UEFA Champions League QR2
2. Sarajevo 60 pts - UEFA Europe League QR1
3. Borac 51 pts - UEFA Europe League QR1
4. Čelik 51 pts - Borac has a better H2H record
5. Olimpic 49 pts - If they had won this last game against Čelik, they would be in Europe
6. �iroki Brijeg 45 pts - UEFA Europe League QR2 as Cup Winner

Tomorrow the Appeal commission has a meeting to see if Borac will get their European License because they didn't got it on the First Instance Commission, the same goes for Čelik and Olimpic. Only the 7th Zrinjski and 13th Vele� has an European license beside �eljezničar, Sarajevo and �iroki Brijeg. It is almost 100% that Olimpic will get the European license, while many have doubts for Borac and especially Čelik but we should wait for tomorrow when we will have the official results.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 26-05-2013, 19:56 Edited by: Lorric at: 26-05-2013, 19:56	Lazio take their place in the ELGS and the Coppa Italia with a 1-0 victory over Roma. No silver star for Roma and no Europe for Roma once again.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 26-05-2013, 20:20 Edited by: bugylibicska at: 26-05-2013, 20:23	Videoton (Hungary) booked their place in the EL, joining Debrecen, The 3rd spot will be decided in the last round, Honved are in pole position, but if they lose MTK or FTC might pip them with a win. Rijeka (Croatia) are in EL at the expense of Split, who could only draw their last game at Zadar.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 26-05-2013, 22:07	Real Betis have qualified for the Europa League. Valencia lead Real Sociedad by two points with a game to go in the race for fourth

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: magyarszurker Date: 26-05-2013, 22:27	I feel sorry for Split. A beautiful city with a team that plays sexy football. Reaching 3rd place and ELQ1 should'nt be a problem for Honv�d, all they need is a tie against mediocre team Halad�s.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 26-05-2013, 22:34	Following today's games in Romania's L1, it is clear now that EL2 and EL3 will have the country coefficient (4.604). The CW can be Petrolul (4.604) or CFR Cluj (30.604).

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 26-05-2013, 22:48	That is not good for Romania at all. But at least you've got Steaua who will be seeded all the way in CLQ.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: De_Republiek Date: 26-05-2013, 23:30 Edited by: De_Republiek at: 26-05-2013, 23:32	Romania will need Cfr Cluj to win the national cup, to gain some places on the country ranking list. With just Steaua it will be hard I think.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: paul7 Date: 27-05-2013, 09:55	Swiss League,in case if Basel and Grasshopper finish with same points.what's the rule,H2H,goal difference or golden match ?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 27-05-2013, 10:16	Acoording to Wikipedia it is GD is Switzerland. So Basel has the advantage in that case.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: NecmiMurat_Istanbul Date: 27-05-2013, 10:32	Greek runners-up and FC Salzburg became unseeded in CLQ3-NC after Olympique Lyon's win. The last unseeded will be decided after Swiss spot: Fenerbah�e, Grasshoppers or Sankt Gallen will be unseeded.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 27-05-2013, 10:45	I think we can safely assume that Omonia Nicosia will be seeded in ELQR3. Am I right?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: max_m Date: 27-05-2013, 10:59	Yes you are

Author: PnavE_81
Date: 27-05-2013, 11:31

there are 58 teams in ELQ3 so 29 are seeded
there are 13 teams in ELQ2 seeded higher than o. nicosia. Also EL3 for Gre, Sui and Aut can still be higher seeded and the cupwinner from Rom. So that is a possible 17 teams from ELQ2 higher seeded than omonia.
Also there are 10 teams already qualified to ELQ3 with a higher coefficient. Sui and GRe EL2 can also still have a higher coefficient.
so there you have another 12 possible teams with a higher coefficient than omonia...leaving omonia in an unseeded 30th possition

HOWEVER! El2 and EL3 from greece can only have a higher coefficient if they are both PAOK...which of course they can't be both. This means that omonia is safe at 29th position (assuming all teams get their licence...)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: magyarszurker Date: 27-05-2013, 11:48	Bert, you forgot to add EL3 (Rom) 4.604 and Videoton (Hun) 7.850 to the ELQ2 seeding list.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 27-05-2013, 11:56	My only worry is that Pas Giannina will not participate in the EL and Panathinaikos will take their place after the Licensing appeals. So, in theory it is not 100% sure for Omonia to be seeded but we have excellent chances.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: SirHenri Date: 27-05-2013, 12:26 Edited by: SirHenri at: 27-05-2013, 13:24	Petrolul Ploieşti is surely playing EL, due to the matchup Pandurii T�rgu Jiu - Astra Giurgiu at the last matchday. It's just unknown, which of the 3 places they get. (ELQ1 or ELQ2) edit : oh yeah, sorry, I didn't take that into account. So maybe my words become true at ~8pm today (if Pandurii doesn't beat Concordia), but not for now.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 27-05-2013, 13:04	@SirHenri Petrolul isn't qualified yet, because Pandurii have one game less played (the one scheduled tonight). Regarding the seeding in ELQR2: the CW of Romania will be seeded, because there are currently 3 vacant spots and only 2 teams with higher coefficient than our country basic one, from Hungary and Poland. And since the CW will be highest EL team, they would take the last spot.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: magyarszurker Date: 27-05-2013, 14:10	Oh come on Omonia, my fingers are crossed so that Debrecen and Videoton would be seeded in QR3. Just chill, your team is safe.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Edol Date: 27-05-2013, 18:51 Edited by: Edol at: 27-05-2013, 18:53	Zrinjski will play instead of Borac for Bosnia and Herzegovina. Borac, Celik, Olimpic and Slavija couldn't get the license for international competitions from the FA.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 27-05-2013, 20:01	This evening(21.00) the match of the year:libertas tre penne,the final of san marino championship. The winner will play in cl the loser in el with la fiorita(winner of the cup)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 27-05-2013, 20:25 Edited by: executor at: 27-05-2013, 20:47	@SirHenri Tough luck. Pandurii won, so your words could become true around 8 pm ........ on Wednesday

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: magyarszurker Date: 27-05-2013, 20:39	Quick question to Bert: when are you going to make the ELQR3 seedings (assuming all the seeded sides will go through from the two previous rounds)? No rush, just mere curiosity.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: m-p3 Date: 27-05-2013, 21:28	@Edol This is the appeal was? Link please.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: m-p3 Date: 27-05-2013, 21:30	@omonia When in Greece will appeal?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 27-05-2013, 22:04	Bert, why don't you put Romania's CW as seeded in QR2? It is a sure thing. There's only one possible team above it, from Poland. The EL2 and EL3 from Romania are behind it.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: SirHenri Date: 27-05-2013, 22:20 Edited by: SirHenri at: 27-05-2013, 23:20	The San Marino final seems to be undecided/postponed according to my ticker, anyone has infos for this ?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: nuno Date: 27-05-2013, 22:48	Sir Henri I have a information for you,you can also see the san marino final! here: http://www.smtvsanmarino.sm/tv/web-tv

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: TP Date: 27-05-2013, 22:49	@m-p3 http://hercegovina.info/vijesti/sport/nogomet/hsk-zrinjski-ce-predstavljati-bih -u-europi#news_view

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: m-p3 Date: 27-05-2013, 22:52	TP, thank you

Author: SirHenri
Date: 27-05-2013, 23:15
Edited by: SirHenri
at: 28-05-2013, 00:34

thx nuno !

The match is in extra time now.

And Tre Penne wins 5:3 after penalties !! So they start in CLQ1 (where they are seeded !!)

And Libertas goes to ELQ1 (unseeded of course, worst coeff. of all clubs)

edit : english wikipedia has a 5:4 win after penalties for Libertas, but if my eyes and ears are not completely wrong, then Tre Penne won. I saw it live ... even though I don't understand much italian.

edit2 : now they have a 5:3 for Tre Penne as well

Author: AnelZ
Date: 28-05-2013, 02:07
Edited by: AnelZ
at: 28-05-2013, 02:08

Yeah, Edol provided the right information. Zrinjski as 9th (or 8th in this case) placed team will most probably represent Bosnia and Herzegovina in Europa League because they got their European License on the First Instance Commission. Slavija didn't got their license even on the First Instance Commission so they didn't even appealed again (the same for Leotar but Zrinjski has better H2H against them), while Borac (third), Čelik (fourth) and Olimpic (fifth) did but got rejected. The information aren't 100% official, because the FA still hasn't released a statement but the officials from Borac, Čelik and Olimpic did give interview and all but Čelik's director are furious about the decision. Borac has even said they will appeal to UEFA because of the decision and is even thinking about withdrawing from the league, while Nijaz Gracić (the first man of Olimpic) even went so far that he said that he will retire from Bosnian Football because, as he says, "too much coruption is in the game". Čelik officials said in a normal voice that they didn't got the license but they are very sad for Borac that they didn't also because they deserved it on the green field but obviously not on the green table.

Čelik has the largest debt towards the state (about 2-2,5 million �) from all Sport clubs in the country and other payments to his former players, staff and similar which they didn't pay of until 31 March (the last deadline for payments) but, as they said, did payed afterwards but probably the commission, for which they have the right, didn't allowed such late payments, the same goes for Borac just that they have a smaller debt towards the state. Regarding Olimpic, to be honest I don't know what was the reason for not getting the license as I thought they have a clean sheet regarding financial debts to players and staff (they also have a debt towards the state but which is pretty small but all but four clubs in the Premier League of BiH has it) but we will probably be smarter tomorrow when we will get probably more information about every of those three clubs from the FA in an official statement in which we will probably also get to know who are the clubs who got the license for participating the next season in Premier League of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 28-05-2013, 08:49	@m-p3 According to the Greek Press, on Wednesday, tomorrow.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: m-p3 Date: 28-05-2013, 09:44	omonia, thank you

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 28-05-2013, 09:51 Edited by: bert.kassies at: 28-05-2013, 09:51	@magyarszurker: EL-Q3 seeding now done @executor: yes, you are right

Author: AnelZ
Date: 28-05-2013, 23:01

It is official, Zrinjski will represent Bosnia and Herzegovina in Europe League, starting from QR1 and will be seeded as they are the next highest placed club in the league who got a European License. They finished the season leveled with Leotar on 8th place.

Only 6 clubs got the European Licensce this season:
�eljezničar, Sarajevo, �iroki Brijeg, Zrinjski, Vele�e and Zvijezda (they got in yesterday on the Appeal Commission).

All clubs got the license for the next season of Premier League and while the champions of the First League of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Vitez, will enter the league (but will play the first games in Zenica on Kamberovic Polje), the champions of the First League of the Republika Srpska, Mladost Velika Obarska, is in doubt if they should enter the top flight and will decide in the next couple of days and release an official statement.

http://www.nfsbih.ba/nsbih/vijest.php?id=9418

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: PnavE_81 Date: 29-05-2013, 13:46 Edited by: PnavE_81 at: 29-05-2013, 13:47	minor issue in the EL seeding list: Maccabi Haifa is missing its ** in the ELQ3 round

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: viulo Date: 29-05-2013, 14:19	Portuguese federation confirmed yesterday that all six clubs qualified for european football got their licenses. Additionally, another three clubs were licensed: Rio Ave, Sporting and Mar�timo.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 29-05-2013, 16:11	when the decision about rayo appeal?and malaga?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 29-05-2013, 16:18	The final decisions in Spain will be taken on Tuesday

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 29-05-2013, 17:08	@PnavE_81: thx for feedback

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 29-05-2013, 18:46	Penultimate round of matches in Switzerland tonight- big game is St Gallen v Grasshopper (3rd v 2nd). If Grasshopper avoid defeat they will qualify for the Champions League, although a draw would mean Basel can seal the title with a win over Young Boys. If St Gallen win, they will move to within a point of Grasshopper with one game to go

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 29-05-2013, 19:10	Late drama in Greece as Atromitos won 2-1 at PAOK with a goal in added time (or as it's also known in England 'Fergie time'), meaning that the play-off top spot cannot now be decided until the final matches at the weekend

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 29-05-2013, 20:53 Edited by: Lorric at: 29-05-2013, 20:54	Fergie Time is only when your team (Manchester United) is playing and needs a result. Though I've never believed in the Fergie Time thing myself. I expect it will still be used even now Fergie is gone. Note: I utterly hate the Greek playoff system. It's probably the worst thing in any European league to me. I'm glad I'm not Greek!

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 29-05-2013, 22:19 Edited by: shisraelit at: 29-05-2013, 22:20	omonia,have you news about license in greece?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 29-05-2013, 22:29	Grasshopper Zurich have secured a Champions League place

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 29-05-2013, 22:33 Edited by: shisraelit at: 29-05-2013, 22:55	in romania pandurii and petrolul are qualified for europa league,pandurii will be seeded in qr2,if petrolul win the cup astra go in qr1 and in qr2 would be unseeded,if cfr cluj win the cup petrolul start at qr1 and in qr2 would be unseeded. However pandurii,petrolul and astra deserve europe,i hope for a petrolul win sunday.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 29-05-2013, 22:38	They will decide tomorrow about licensing in Greece and it seems that PAS Giannina and Panathinaikos will win the appeal. We will know for sure tomorrow

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 29-05-2013, 22:54	thank you,omonia

Author: redarmy1928
Date: 30-05-2013, 01:15

Sorry if this has already being asked elsewhere, Im new to this. Iv travelled with my club Sligo Rovers in the Europa League in past few years and found this site a great avenue of knowledge. This year we have finally got to the competition we have longed for and preparations are well underway for our maiden Champions League journey, so can someone tell me how seeding works. I believe, as Champions of Ireland will be unseeded. If so does that mean we are away in 2nd leg as the top seeds get this advantage. From looking at our rivals draw last year against the Lithuanian champions, the whole regionalisation thing seems a bit of a mystery at best so i cannot just book flights to Oslo now and boat my way to our Scandanavian destination, no???

Author: Lorric
Date: 30-05-2013, 01:40

Yes, I answered the same question near the top of the thread.

We can't know for sure. It's always announced at the last minute. But they've done it for I believe the last 3 years now. I don't see why they'd change it. If it isn't, then you could get anyone off the seeded side. If it's regionalised it would likely be a team like BATE/Celtic/Molde/Ekranas/Elfsborg/HJK Helsinki/Legia Warsaw. You can look on wiki at past editions to see what the Northern group looked like. The order of legs is random. So your Scandinavian gamble is unlikely to come off, you'd have about a 50/50 chance of drawing a Scandinavian team and if you did, then you'd have to come out on the right end of another 50/50 chance of being there for the correct leg.

Author: AnelZ
Date: 30-05-2013, 01:45

The seeded side doesn't get the "advantage" of first leg to be home, it is decided during the draw but the clubs can change it with the approval of the other team but immediately. Regarding the regions, till now the QR2 of Champions League (as the QR1 and QR2 of Europe League) was a bit regional with some exceptions so that the coefficients are balanced between the groups. The regions are North (Great Britain and Ireland, Benelux, Scandinavia and Baltic + Iceland and Faroe Islands), South (Iberia, Apennines and Balkans including Slovenia, Romania, Turkey, Malta, Israel and Cyprus) and Central-East (all other).

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: redarmy1928 Date: 30-05-2013, 03:00	cheers both, that clears it up a bit for me. thanks again

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 30-05-2013, 03:09	You're welcome.

Author: Jeffrey
Date: 30-05-2013, 12:51

Can anyone help me with the following:

Last year unseeded teams who eliminate seeded teams, get the coefficient of the seeded teams. For example, Dila Gori eliminate Anarthosis Famagusta in the thirth pre-round of the Europa League. It meant that the `unseeded` Dila Gori was seeded in the fourth pre-round.

Will this happen for the season 2013-14 again? Feyenoord is at the moment in the last round seeded as number 32 (the first team from the unseeded teams), will it be for sure that Feyenoord not will be seeded?

Author: Keld
Date: 30-05-2013, 12:59
Edited by: Keld
at: 30-05-2013, 13:02

The draw for the Q4 is made after the third round has been played, so teams can't take the seeding of their opponents into this draw. However, the Dila Gori - Anorthosis case was special. The game was abandoned when Dila Gori was leading clearly as Anorthosis supporters ran onto the field. UEFA didn't want to make the obivus call straight away and announce Dila Gori as winners, so in the draw it was still "unclear" who would go through. This meant that Anorthosis seeding was used. This meant that Vaslui was not seeded and ended up drawing Inter, while the unseeded Maritimo drew Dila Gori.

So Feyenoord's seeding will depend on how many teams with higher coefficients that are eliminated in the three first EL qual rounds, and how many teams with higher coefficients that drop down from the CL qual rounds.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 30-05-2013, 13:12
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 30-05-2013, 13:14

@Jeffrey

Teams never get the coefficient of a team they beat.

Only when a draw for a round is made when a match of the previous round hasn't been finished yet, UEFA assumes at the draw that the team with the highest coefficient will qualify, and uses that coefficient to make the draw.

So Feyenoord can still move up the ranking if higher seeded teams are eliminated in the previous rounds, but they can also move down if higher seeded teams are eliminated in QR3 of the Champions League.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: m-p3 Date: 30-05-2013, 16:06	UEFA confirms that the CW of Russia will start with GS EL. http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2014/accesslist/index.html

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Cloakmaster Date: 30-05-2013, 19:21	I 've read that the 9th rank in spain will get access to EL-q3, since two teams are suspended. Is that so? Malaga went to CAS, have they been denied already? And what club would also be 'out' ?

Author: AlanK
Date: 30-05-2013, 19:32

@Cloakmaster:

I've covered almost all of this on the "Spanish Season" thread. M�laga's appeal will receive a response in June--I've heard both June 4 and June 15 as possible dates. Rayo Vallecano did not receive a license from the RFEF, and will present an appeal to the CAS on June 4. If M�laga is ruled out, Rayo would qualify--unless they're ruled out, in which case #9 in the league would indeed become Spain's EL3. Rayo would actually finish seventh should they win and Betis lose on Saturday--this could make a difference (apparently) regarding whether they appeal or not.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 30-05-2013, 20:12	I would expect it to be June 4 as the draws for QR1 and QR2 for both the CL and EL are on June 24 so making the decision on June 15 would seem a bit last minute

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: TP Date: 30-05-2013, 23:00	Any information about licenses in Greece?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 30-05-2013, 23:09	No Spanish teams are in Q1 and Q2, so it would not be needed to have a verdict by that time. As long as a verdict is known before the Q3 draw it is OK.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 30-05-2013, 23:36	PAS Giannina won the appeal for their license and will take part in the EL. Panathinaikos also won the appeal but they wont be playing european football this season

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: TP Date: 31-05-2013, 07:58	@omonia Thanks!

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Marcin Date: 31-05-2013, 10:48	PAS Giannina received licence. Does it mean that Bursaspor is seeded in EL Q4 prediction at this moment and Feyenoord and Utrecht are just below the line of seeding?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 31-05-2013, 10:48	Final weekend of the 2012/13 season. By the end of the weekend we should know the full line-ups for the 2013/14 Champions League and Europa League, pending any licence appeals of course

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 31-05-2013, 12:33	@Marcin Yes, the seeding line is between Bursaspor and Feyenoord at this moment. I hope it will shift a bit down still, because 2 Dutch teams are now directly below the seeding line.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: JackB Date: 31-05-2013, 13:19	I see from the website that Swansea are currently top of the "unknown" pot for EL PO. It looks like we'll probably be seeded in the PO round if we qualify, does anyone know what results we're waiting for to see about the seeding? Or will we not know until Q3 in both CL and EL are done?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Marcin Date: 31-05-2013, 14:18	@FORZA AZ I think that it will move definitely one or two place down the line as every year. For polish fans it's important because if Legia would fail in CL Q3 it still has chance to be seeded in EL Q 4 beacuse is just behind Utrecht.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 31-05-2013, 14:21	@Marcin Last year the seeding line in ELPO didn't move. I know, because SC Vaslui was the first below the line. Well, it should've moved, but, no, UEFA took too long to judge the obvious case of Anorthosis...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Marcin Date: 31-05-2013, 14:34	@Executor So we still waiting for cup final in Romania to decide final seeding prediction for EL Q4.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: JackB Date: 31-05-2013, 15:09	Have I got this right? For Swansea to be guaranteed seeding in Q4, we need either Petrolul to win the cup in Romania, or for PAOK to qualify for the Champions League?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mudhen Date: 31-05-2013, 15:11	As far as i know, The national federations have to send out the list of teams competing next year by 2nd of june. That's why there are no more matches anywhere in europe after that date. In past years, there used to be several league matches or cup finals even on 12th of june (especially in odd years), but not this year.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 31-05-2013, 15:25	@JackB The final seedings for EL-Q4 is known after the CL and EL-Q3 matches have bene finished. Surprises in that round can move the seedings line in EL-Q4 up or down still.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: max_m Date: 31-05-2013, 17:19 Edited by: max_m at: 31-05-2013, 17:19	@mudhen, romanian cup final is scheduled for 6. june i think, or something like that

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mudhen Date: 31-05-2013, 17:36	no, it's tommorow. check the qualification list on the main page.

Author: Lorric
Date: 31-05-2013, 17:43

@ Jack B

Even if you end up above the seeding line, it's possible you could fall below it if seeded CL sides drop in. You will likely be safe though if you are above the seeded line, as it's unlikely every team that has a higher coefficient will all make it to ELQ4 from the earlier rounds. But nothing is certain. You could also end up below the line, but enough seeds lose in the earlier rounds to push you above it.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 31-05-2013, 23:02	Bordeaux in gs of europa league. They defeated evian tg in the final of coupe de france. They will be in pot 1

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 01-06-2013, 18:03	So, Honved drew in Szombathely and with this point grabbed the last spot still available for an EL place. The full list: Gyor to CL, Debrecen to EL Q2 and Videoton, Honved to EL Q1.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 01-06-2013, 18:51	Viktoria Plzen are champions in Czech Republic and will be seeded in the Second Qualifying Round

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 01-06-2013, 18:52	Plzen won so go to CL, Jablonec to EL Q3 and Sparta Praha with Liberec to EL Q2.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 01-06-2013, 19:23	Sutjeska Niksic won their crucial last game so they`re champions of Montenegro and play CL. Buducnost Podgorica, Celik Niksic and Grbalj Radovanici all start in EL Q1. (If they have their licenses, I don`t know.)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: JackB Date: 01-06-2013, 19:25	Sutjeska got the win they needed to seal the league title in Montenegro, they go to CLQ2. Budacnost, Celik to ELQ1, along with Grbalj, who got the point they needed against Zeta despite playing the second half with ten men.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Farkas Date: 01-06-2013, 19:29	Videoton and Budapest Hoved are 2th and 3rd in Hungaria and both start in El Q1. Ferencvaros as Cup winner starts in ELQ2

Author: AnelZ
Date: 01-06-2013, 21:04

I tried to find the result of the Appeal Commission in Montenegro that was held on 25 May but wasn't successful. On the First Instance Commission held at the begin of the month of April eight club applied for European License (Sutjeska, Buducnost, Čelik, Grbalj, Zeta, Mladost, Rudar and Petrovac) and only one got the license and that was FK Čelik Nik�ić. Budućnost Podgorica, Sutjeska Nik�ić, Rudar Pljevlja and Mladost Podgorica were denied one because not fulfilling the financial aspect. OFK Grbalj Radanovići and OFK Petrovac had much more trouble because they weren't fulfilling most of the aspects (financial, infrastructure, personal-administrative, legal and even the sport aspect) while Zeta's application was just formal.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 01-06-2013, 21:49	So, Romania will have 3 teams in EL with Country coefficient: CW - Petrolul EL2 - Pandurii EL3 - Astra Giurgiu This is quite rare, I think. To have 4 teams in Eurocups and 3 of them with no eurogames inthe previous 5 years. If they make it to QR3, Petrolul would be a nasty surprise for the seeded teams. The other 2 are so-so.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 01-06-2013, 22:00	England have got two teams with no European games in the last five years, but I'm pretty sure one country having three is very rare

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: spoonman Date: 01-06-2013, 22:04	Bayern have won the German Cup, so the ranking of our EL teams is this: (ELGS) SC Freiburg (ELQ4) Eintracht Frankfurt (ELQ3) VfB Stuttgart

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 01-06-2013, 22:22	Basel are champions in Switzerland. They will have the highest co-efficient in the Champions Path

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 01-06-2013, 22:35	@Farkas ``Videoton and Budapest Hoved are 2th and 3rd in Hungaria and both start in El Q1. Ferencvaros as Cup winner starts in ELQ2`` Make it Debrecen, Ferencvaros have no business in Europe, maybe next year.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 01-06-2013, 22:37	Greece will be settled tomorrow. Atromitos are on course for the 2nd CL place. What an absolute joke that Greek playoff system is when Atromitos finished 16pts behind PAOK and 10pts behind Asteras.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: magyarszurker Date: 01-06-2013, 22:42	It is now clear that assuming Debrecen go through to QR3, they'll be seeded for sure.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 01-06-2013, 23:06 Edited by: Lorric at: 01-06-2013, 23:08	Looks like business in Spain has been concluded. Real Sociedad seize the last CL place, jumping Valencia with their win at Deportivo while Valencia lost at Sevilla. Valencia to the ELGS. Malaga if they are in Europe to Q4, if not, then Real Betis. 8th was Rayo Vallecano and 9th was Sevilla. I believe this leaves only Greece and FYR Macedonia, which will be settled tomorrow.

Author: Lorric
Date: 01-06-2013, 23:16
Edited by: Lorric
at: 01-06-2013, 23:19

I've just looked, and FYR Macedonia has 1st vs 2nd for the final matchday tomorrow, Vardar vs Turnovo. Vardar lead the league and Turnovo by 2pts. I don't know if a stream could be found for a match in such a lowly league, but I think it would be great to watch these two fight it out directly for the last league title up for grabs in Europe.

EDIT: UEFA.com has an article on the coming match:

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=mkd/news/newsid=1958440.html

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 01-06-2013, 23:20	Poland also has 1 matchday tomorrow, but it only matters in the order of Slask and Piast. Both start in EL-Q2 however no matter what happens tomorrow.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 01-06-2013, 23:21	Yep, only Greece and Macedonia left to be concluded. Valencia missing out on the Champions League greatly boosts Atletico Madrid's chances of being in Pot One

Author: mjohnson1989
Date: 01-06-2013, 23:47

Should all of the top seeded teams make it through the Champions League qualifying rounds, these would be the Group Stage pots:

Pot One
Bayern Munich
Barcelona
Chelsea
Real Madrid
Manchester United
Arsenal
Porto
Benfica

Pot Two
Atletico Madrid
Lyon
Shakhtar Donetsk
AC Milan
Schalke
Marseilles
CSKA Moscow
Paris Saint-Germain

Pot Three
Juventus
Zenit St Petersburg
Manchester City
Ajax
Borussia Dortmund
Basel
Olympiakos
Galatasaray

Pot Four
Bayer Leverkusen
Copenhagen
Napoli
Anderlecht
BATE Borisov
Celtic
Steaua Bucharest
APOEL Nicosia

Author: Lorric
Date: 02-06-2013, 00:21
Edited by: Lorric
at: 02-06-2013, 00:36

@ magyarszurker

Not according to Bert. If PAOK don't claim the CL spot, Debrecen will be top of the unseeded pot.

EDIT: Debrecen are also safe if PAOK finish in Greece's top ELQ spot, which would put PAOK in Q4.

Greece is decided on Head to Head. If PAOK lose at PAS Giannina, then Debrecen will be unseeded. PAS Giannina already beat PAOK at PAOK, and will draw level with PAOK and beat them on H2H.

A win or a draw are safe, they will be guaranteed to beat 2/3 of their rivals.

Author: AnelZ
Date: 02-06-2013, 01:11

If Turnovo becomes the champions of Macedonia I really think that they will be the club coming from the smallest settlement playing in CL ever. The village of Turnovo has only a population of 941 and they are some 12 kilometers away from the nearest city Strumica which has a population of some 35k. A really interesting club and situation which one doesn't see too often. And all of their players are ethnic Macedonians.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: TP Date: 02-06-2013, 07:55	"This is quite rare, I think. To have 4 teams in Eurocups and 3 of them with no eurogames inthe previous 5 years" There is same situation in Wales too. Prestatyn Town 0.516 Airbus UK Broughton 0.516 Bala Town 0.516

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 02-06-2013, 08:24

Assuming that all qualified clubs will obtain a licence next season, there are 20 clubs that never played European football before. Last year there were 15 new clubs.

Albania    FK Kuk�si
Croatia    Lokomotiva Zagreb
England    Swansea City
England    Wigan Athletic
Finland    IFK Mariehamn
Georgia    Chikhura Sachkhere
Greece     PAS Giannina
Lithuania  Kruoja Pakruojis
Macedonia  FK Turnovo
Montenegro OFK Grbalj
Norway     IL H�dd
Poland     Piast Gliwice
Portugal   Estoril Praia
Romania    Astra Giurgiu
Romania    Pandurii T�rgu Jiu
Russia     Kuban Krasnodar
Slovakia   AS Trenc�n
Wales      Airbus UK Broughton
Wales      Bala Town
Wales      Prestatyn Town

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Edol Date: 02-06-2013, 10:46	Grbalj played the InterToto Cup a few years ago.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 02-06-2013, 12:06	Edol, that's right. I have to specify the term "European football" better. What I mean is European football that counted for the calculation of the UEFA coeffcients. Which is Champions League or Champions Cup, Europa League or Cup Winners Cup or UEFA Cup.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: gogu Date: 02-06-2013, 12:54	Swansea have already played for Wales.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: TimJohnson Date: 02-06-2013, 15:40 Edited by: TimJohnson at: 02-06-2013, 15:42	Swansea have been reclassified by UEFA as an English team since the start of the season and therefore Bert is correct. That is why I have no problem with the English League Cup being their first major honour even though when they were Welsh they won our cup and represented us in the CWC

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 02-06-2013, 18:40	Vardar beat Turnovo in the last round in Macedonia and won the championship. So, Vardar Skopje to CL Q2 and Turnovo, Teteks Tetovo and Metalurg Skopje to EL Q1.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: mjohnson1989 Date: 02-06-2013, 21:54	Final positions in the Greek Play-Offs 1 PAOK 2 Atromitos 3 Asteras Tripoli 4 PAS Giannina

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 02-06-2013, 21:56	So in the end only Atromitos gained a position. PAOK to the CL and Debrecen safely seeded.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: magyarszurker Date: 02-06-2013, 23:28 Edited by: magyarszurker at: 02-06-2013, 23:36	So will be Kuban Krasnodar, Hajduk Split, CSKA Sofia, Red Star Belgrade and Videoton (if they qualify), we just need to wait and see which seeded teams fall out. Edit: Sorry, I have no idea why I wrote that, I had a funny day. Please don't quote or discuss.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: luckyluke Date: 03-06-2013, 12:34	are there any news about red bull/pasching case?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Philipp Date: 03-06-2013, 13:49	There are no informations yet.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: KRBY Date: 03-06-2013, 22:04	Swansea may be their first time that they represent England, however the team that played via Wales was the same. So teams is the same and their records remain in the history. Team HAS PLAYED in Europe. Just their first time via England. Just look at Swansea records at UEFA Web site.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 04-06-2013, 08:03	When is Austria going to confirm their teams? When you have news about the Pasching/Red Bull case please let us know.

Author: AlanK
Date: 04-06-2013, 15:59

And on goes the "culebr�n" of the appeals by M�laga and Rayo with regard to their exclusion from European f�tbol for 2013-2014.

M�laga appealed to the CAS today (June 4). They'll have an answer in 7 to 14 days (in another place, we're told it'll be 10 days).

IF M�laga is excluded, Rayo will appeal their license refusal to the RFEF. (This is my interpretation of the info in marca.com). If Rayo is still refused a license, Sevilla will play the EL.

Any questions? (I've got a bunch . . .)

Author: AnelZ
Date: 04-06-2013, 16:54
Edited by: AnelZ
at: 04-06-2013, 16:54

News from Montenegro

The Appeal Commission released official statements about who got the Licenses for European competitions. On the First instance commission only third placed and cup finalist FK Čelik Nik�ić got the license (coefficient of 1,550; unseeded in EL QR1), so Sutjeska, Budućnost, Grbalj, Rudar and Mladost appealed. After examining the documents this is what the commision said:

First placed FK Sutjeska Nik�ić were granted the license for European competition and will start in CL QR2 with a coefficient of 1,300 (unseeded in CL QR2)

Second placed and Cup Winner FK Budućnost Podgorica were denied a license for European competition and so will not represent Montenegro in EL QR1

Fourth placed FK Grbalj Radanovići were denied a license for European competition and so will not represent Montenegro in EL QR1

Fifth placed FK Rudar Pljevlja were granted the license for European competition and will start in EL QR1 with a coefficient of 2,800 (seeded in EL QR1, unseeded in EL QR2)

Sixth placed FK Mladost Podgorica were granted the license for European competition and will start in EL QR1 with base coefficient of 1,050 (unseeded in EL QR1)

http://fscg.co.me/201306033065/Vijesti-Savez/saoptenje-komisije-za-albe-fscg-03
062013.html

As until now, Montenegro only has two stadiums who allow qualifying matches to be played on them and that is the stadium in Nik�ić (Stadion kraj Bi�tice) and Podgorica (Stadion pod Goricom). As Čelik and Sutjeska are from Nik�ić they will use the stadium in Nik�ić, while Mladost is from Podgorica and naturally will use the stadium in Podgorica. Rudar Pljevlja doesn't have a fit stadium in their own city and they used the stadium in Nik�ić in the last years but this year they obviously will have to travel a bit more to Podgorica for their European matches.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 04-06-2013, 18:52	@AnelZ, thanks for the news and link. @AlanK, (also thanks of course), as far as I know Rayo already appealed to the RFEF Appeal Body after the license was denied by the RFEF License Committee. The UEFA license rules do not have a 2nd chance for appeal. I think the only option left for Rayo is to appeal to the CAS.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: AlanK Date: 04-06-2013, 19:24 Edited by: AlanK at: 04-06-2013, 19:25	@bert: I think you're correct. Marca.com (always somewhat suspect in their pronouncements) stated this morning (in the article on M�laga) that Rayo's appeal would be "ante la RFEF," but your post reminds me that this is probably incorrect--previous accounts had said they'd go to the TAS (CAS).

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 07-06-2013, 08:22	According to Greek media PAS Giannina may not get a license afterall. UEFA officials have checked their files and it seems that they won't give a license to PAS. Also, Panathinaikos license is also being reviewed. Here is the link in Greek. http://www.sport-fm.gr/article/ston-aera-o-pas-eksetazetai-o-pao/680243

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 07-06-2013, 14:12	Bert, I didn't want to make a new topic just for this, so I'll put it here: can you check the Graphs section on the main page? I tried makeChart and makeTeamChart, but I don't get any image, with IE 9, Chrome and Safari (from IPad). Thanks.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-06-2013, 08:34	executor, i see the problem. The cause is a new server at my provider, which prohibits the execution of the chart software. A solution might take some days maybe. Thanks for feedback.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 11-06-2013, 10:48	The problem with interactive charts in the Graphs section has been solved wih a temporarily redirect to another server. Still waiting for a definitive solution.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: AlanK Date: 11-06-2013, 15:46	M�laga's appeal was turned down--M�laga will NOT compete in Europe during 2013-2014.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: JackB Date: 11-06-2013, 23:51	Does this mean that Rayo will now appeal? Any news on the date or a likely outcome for them?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: AlanK Date: 12-06-2013, 01:03 Edited by: AlanK at: 12-06-2013, 01:04	@JackB: If my understanding is correct, Rayo, which does NOT have a license from the RFEF (Spanish Federation), will now (since M�laga's appeal was rejected), appeal to the TAS (CAS). Only if their appeal succeeds will they play the EL. It looks as though Sevilla will be Spain's third EL team

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 12-06-2013, 15:37 Edited by: shisraelit at: 12-06-2013, 21:25	someone has news for red bull-pasching case?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: AlanK Date: 13-06-2013, 16:50	Rayo Vallecano's website confirms that they will present their case to the TAS for the issuance of the necessary UEFA license to play in the EL in 2013-2014. This "official communication" of the club is dated 11 June 16:10 CET.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: caravaj Date: 16-06-2013, 22:55	In 2011 UEFA banned ETO Gy�r for 3 years, this is the 3rd year, so are you sure they will be in CL in next summer ? Unless the ban was cancelled, but I've found nothing about it.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 16-06-2013, 23:01	Gyor was suspended for the 1st season they qualified in the 2011-12 till 2013-14 period. That was last season, so they served their ban.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: seso Date: 17-06-2013, 16:58	Well, you thought that the Greek-clubs-qualification saga was over but you were wrong.... According to the Greek media (it has to be true...) PAS Giannina will not get a license from UEFA. Panathinaikos' license (which is next in line) also has issues, but they try to convince UEFA that they have done enough. Otherwise, 7th place Xanthi FC will get the european ticket.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 17-06-2013, 18:15	when the official decision?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: seso Date: 18-06-2013, 06:06	They say on Thursday, but who knows...

Author: omonia
Date: 18-06-2013, 14:11

It seems that this article was published sometime today on uefa.com but it was later removed.

http://www.easybranches.co/champions-league/draws-to-kick-off-201314-campaign/

Draws to kick off 2013/14 campaign

Posted: Tuesday 18 June 2013 at 7:55 AM UTC
PinterestShare
Published: Tuesday 18 June 2013, 9.12CET
The first draws of the 2013/14 UEFA club competition season will take place in Nyon on Monday 24 June, with all three ceremonies to be streamed live on UEFA.com.

The draws for the first two qualifying rounds of the 2013/14 UEFA Champions League and the first qualifying round of the 2013/14 UEFA Europa League will be streamed live from Nyon on Monday 24 June.

The first draws for the 2013/14 UEFA club competitions will be conducted by UEFA general secretary Gianni Infantino and UEFA competitions director Giorgio Marchetti. The UEFA Champions League draws will begin at 12.00CET and 13.00CET respectively with the UEFA Europa League draw to follow at 14.30CET. The final list of participating clubs and the draw procedure will be published on UEFA.com.

Media representatives wishing to attend the draws must apply via e-mail to fame_accreditations@uefa.ch.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 18-06-2013, 14:21	uefa hasnt decided yet in this cases: AUSTRIA:pasching can play in el? ROMANIA:steaua can play in cl? TURKEY:besiktas and fenerbache can play in el and cl? GREECE:who will play in elqr2? giannina panatinaikos or xanthi? SPAIN:who will play in elqr3? sivilla or rayo vallecano?

Author: Ricardo
Date: 19-06-2013, 13:29
Edited by: Ricardo
at: 19-06-2013, 13:39

yes, wow, they are not drawing EL-Q2 because of these problems. This is getting harder and harder for Uefa
I guess next year they will set a deadline of 1 May for clubs to have a license. 1 month to appeal should be enough. And on 1 June the participants-list is closed.
Only teams can be kicked out because of misbehaviour. I guess there will always be problems...

It's not fair to Feyenoord en Utrecht by the way who are just unseeded now in EL-Q4. And why? because suddenly teams that were not qualified in the first place get a chance, because another team did not get a license(Sevilla, Panathinaikos). NOT Fair!!
(This applies of course for any team that ends up just below the seeding line in EL-Q4 or maybe evenin an earlier round)

BTW they have now the story on UEFA.COM with for CL&EL 1st + 2nd round draw wil be made
check hier

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 19-06-2013, 14:52	Nothing special with the draws. They just mention the time for the EL-Q2 draw now clearly, while some years ago you just had to wait after the EL-Q1 untill they were done with the groupings for EL-Q2. So: 12h00 CL Q1 and Q2 13h00 EL Q1 14h30 EL Q2

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 19-06-2013, 15:03 Edited by: executor at: 19-06-2013, 15:05	nvm...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: max_m Date: 19-06-2013, 15:05	Are you sure? I think that only CLQR1, CLQR2 and ELQR1 will be made on monday. Not ELQR2.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: luckyluke Date: 19-06-2013, 15:09	"with the UEFA Europa League second qualifying round draw to follow at 14.30CET."

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Nixda Date: 19-06-2013, 15:11	The draws for the UEFA Champions League first and second qualifying rounds and UEFA Europa League first qualifying round will begin at 12.00CET and 13.00CET respectively, with the UEFA Europa League second qualifying round draw to follow at 14.30CET. uefa.com

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: MalcolmW Date: 19-06-2013, 19:53	The CLQ1 draw has a minimal impact on the draw for CLQ2, which can follow immediately. But the ELQ1 draw will place a major constraint on the groupings for ELQ2, hence the need for a break between those rounds being drawn.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 19-06-2013, 21:28	Why don't they do ELQ1 then CLQ1+2 then ELQ2?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 19-06-2013, 23:06	They could do that, but that would make it a bit chaotic. First EL draw, then CL and then EL again. And they still need breaks between the draws to let the officials of the clubs in and out of the room.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: luckyluke Date: 20-06-2013, 09:28	there will be no changes in greece http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite5_1_31/05/2013_501942

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Ricardo Date: 20-06-2013, 09:55	And CL is the most important of course and should be drawn first!!

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: luckyluke Date: 20-06-2013, 09:57	usually most important venue is left for the end

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 20-06-2013, 10:34	luchyluke-i m happy because panatinaikos didn t deserve europe this year...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: De_Republiek Date: 20-06-2013, 11:21	@luckyluke Are you sure? That article is from 31 may...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: m-p3 Date: 20-06-2013, 12:13	http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2014/accesslist/listofparticipants/ index.html Derry City FC (IRL) [CW> 1.465 It is strange that not 1,475...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 20-06-2013, 13:19	That must be a type mistake since in the ranking they have 2,475 as they are supposed to have.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: luckyluke Date: 20-06-2013, 15:34	ups! sorry, I was checking the date above. my mistake

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: m-p3 Date: 20-06-2013, 16:09	Forza-AZ Since Derry City missed the season because of a "rule of three years", his rating should be reset to 1,475.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 20-06-2013, 16:48
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 20-06-2013, 17:02

Derry City played in the 2009/10 season and collected 1 point there by reaching EL-Q3, so they will have 2,475.

Edit: I see the current Derry City is technically another club then the one playing in EL in 2009/10, so the point the "old Derry City" collected in 2009/10 can't be added to the "new Derry City"'s coefficient. 1,475 is should be then.

Strange however is that uefa lists the history of the "old Derry City" under the "new Derry City", but doesn't award them the coefficient point of 2009/10.

For the seeding this however has no influence. Whether you take 1,475 or 2,475, they are the lowest ranked team in EL-Q2.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: m-p3 Date: 20-06-2013, 17:32 Edited by: m-p3 at: 20-06-2013, 17:34	Not in the seeding matters but the precision... The fact that Derry City in any case not seeded, I myself well know)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: seso Date: 20-06-2013, 17:44	UEFA will decide until Monday which one of PAS Giannina, Pana, Xanthi will take part in EL.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: grant87 Date: 20-06-2013, 19:47	Can anyone clear up this Derry City situation? 1.465 doesn't calculate. As said previously, should it not be either 2.475 or 1.475?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 20-06-2013, 19:55	The 6 must be a mistake, since the other Irish teams have the correct coefficient. It looks like UEFA treats Derry City as a new club, because they weren't allowed to participate last year since they were not 3 years old yet.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 20-06-2013, 20:48	Panathinaikos did not get a license but they will go to CAS. Also, according to the Greek Press UEFA will not grant a license to PAS Giannina either, so Xanthi will take their place.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: maciejko Date: 20-06-2013, 20:50	Xanthi in EL according to this: http://www.sport24.gr/football/omades/SkodaXanthi/sthn_eyrwph_h_ksanthh.2302145 .html

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: luckyluke Date: 21-06-2013, 09:32	some links in english http://www.euronews.com/sport/1998042-uefa-reject-panathinaikos-licence-applica tion/ http://football.thestar.com.my/2013/06/21/uefa-reject-panathinaikos-licence-app lication/

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Philipp Date: 21-06-2013, 10:40	Austrian media: Pasching will be allowed to play EL.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: luckyluke Date: 21-06-2013, 10:55	do you have a link?

Author: Philipp
Date: 21-06-2013, 11:59

Hitzepol Pasching: Seit gestern ist der FC Pasching auch hochoffiziell in der Europa League spielberechtigt. Gestern traf Post vom europ�ischen Fu�ballverband UEFA mit der Freigabe ein. Der Doppelpass mit Red Bull ist (wie in den O�N von Anfang an angek�ndigt) kein Hindernis.

http://www.nachrichten.at/sport/sv_ried/Oebster-als-Geschenk-fuer-Daxbacher-Rie
ds-Neuer-kostete-1-5-Millionen;art102,1143886

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: luckyluke Date: 21-06-2013, 12:11	thanks

Author: Auld_Reekie
Date: 22-06-2013, 19:19

The Derry City co-efficient re-asessment will have major implications for Rangers if the qualify for the Europa League via the Scottish Cup at the first opportunity, for 2015-16.

As a 'new' team they would go from probably being seeded all the way to the Play-off round to being unseeded from Q2 onwards (maybe even Qi if we don't improve!).

It could then take them a decade to regain their previous level.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 22-06-2013, 20:13	I figured this might happen. Both clubs are still listed here though: http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Todor Date: 22-06-2013, 20:35	According to the latest news CSKA Sofia became insolvent and won't participate in Europe. I'm not sure if they can be replaced by another team.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Philipp Date: 22-06-2013, 21:19 Edited by: Philipp at: 22-06-2013, 21:20	Do you have a link about the CSKA case?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: maciejko Date: 22-06-2013, 21:41 Edited by: maciejko at: 22-06-2013, 21:41	http://www.sportal.bg/news.php?news=433516 Here is info about CSKA. According to this article - no other team from Bulgaria will replace them.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 22-06-2013, 21:49 Edited by: Lorric at: 22-06-2013, 21:50	Will someone get a bye then? EDIT: I guess both Romanian clubs get seeded in Q2 then.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Marcin Date: 22-06-2013, 22:40	It's probable that cup winner from Lithuania can start from second round of qualification.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 22-06-2013, 22:44 Edited by: Lorric at: 22-06-2013, 22:44	If so, that would be the unseeded Zalgiris, so Domzale will stay unseeded in Q1.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 23-06-2013, 08:48 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 23-06-2013, 08:53	It would be strange if Bulgaria won't get a replacement for CSKA if they can't compete in the EL. The draw hasn't been made yet, so why shouldn't Botev Plovdiv replace CSKA Sofia? Botev will also be seeded in Q1 then (in last seeded spot), so no changes in seeded/unseeded.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Philipp Date: 23-06-2013, 08:57	Could it be that no other bulgarian club received a licensed from the UEFA?

Author: Todor
Date: 23-06-2013, 09:27
Edited by: Todor
at: 23-06-2013, 09:31

The situation with CSKA is not yet completely clear. Their new president and owner Hristo Stoichkov announced that the club was practically busted, wouldn't participate in Europe and that a new club would be established, but he didn't say whether the old club had already filed for bankrupcy, so the FA can't still take any action as nothing is yet official and by the time it becomes clear, there will be no time to replace them with Botev.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 23-06-2013, 09:57	So CSKA will just go into tomorrows draw?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 23-06-2013, 10:03	According to Reuters they declared bankruptcy. Probably a court decision is required to make it official, but it seems quite clear that they can't fulfil UEFA's financial requirements. It seems reasonable to replace them by Botev Plovdiv. But if there is any legal problem then Bulgaria will be represented by 3 teams.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: TimJohnson Date: 23-06-2013, 12:18	Just reading a report from Reuters on www.guardian.co.uk/football stating they are hoping to merge to remain in the top division but will not play in EL

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 23-06-2013, 13:23	If CSKA already knowns for sure now they won't/can't play EL, then I see no problem for the Bulgarian FA to replace them by Botev Plovdiv before the draw. If not, then CSKA will be in the draw and might have to forfeit EL Q1 if they can't play after all.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Marcin Date: 23-06-2013, 15:33	CSKA can't merge with another club to stay at top divsion, it's now forbidden by UEFA. They can merge only with lower league clubs.

Author: svagor
Date: 23-06-2013, 17:56

CSKA Sofia is not merging. They are bailing on their debts because they can not pay. There are more than 200 active cases against the club, and the new owner Grisha Ganchev (owner of Litex Lovech, probably going to be using Stoichkov to represent the club, while he rules in shadow) is seeking a way to bypass all those debts and bills. They are probably going to form a new company and get the license of Litex Lovech (which on the other hand, would go in the second devision, getting the license of Chavdar Etropole). Botev Plovdiv can not play in the EL, because the deadline for a change was last week and also this is a new club that is only 2 years and eleven months old. It would become 3 years old in July. CSKA Sofia has not started any procedures yet, but as it stands the old owners are no longer supporting the club, and the new owners are looking for bancrupcy.
Bulgaria is gonna have to play with 3 teams.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: paul7 Date: 23-06-2013, 18:16	If there are 200 cases,how did they get the license last month to play in europe?strange

Author: Nick
Date: 23-06-2013, 18:54
Edited by: Nick
at: 23-06-2013, 18:57

According to latest info from the club CSKA WILL play in the EL. It seems that yesterday was only a huge circus. In fact nobody has filed for insolvency and the club has a valid license. What happens is a total mystery as of now but my educated guess is that the new owners are bluffing in order to get some serious reductions of the debts from the creditors. The fact is that the creditors will go out with nothing or nearly nothing if the club declares insolvency.

IMO Botev can't play as they went through insolvency in less than 3 years. According to the Article 12 of the UEFA Financial Fairplay regulations they are still banned from European football.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Yuval Date: 24-06-2013, 08:55	Isn't UEFA supposed to announce the CL-Q2 and EL-Q1 pre-draw groups already?

Author: Michael_D
Date: 24-06-2013, 09:43

Champions League round 1 + 2
S=Seeded

First qualifying round draw
EB/Streymur (FRO) - S
SP Tre Penne (SMR) - S
FC Lusitans (AND)
FC Shirak (ARM)

Second qualifying round draw
Group 1
FC Steaua Bucureşti (ROU) - S
FC Viktoria Plzeň (CZE) - S
FC Sheriff (MDA) - S
NK Maribor (SVN) - S
Neft�i PFK (AZE) - S
FK �eljezničar (BIH)
KS Sk�nderbeu (ALB)
Birkirkara FC (MLT)
FK Vardar (MKD)
FK Sutjeska (MNE)

Group 2
Celtic FC - S
Legia Warszawa (POL)- S
IF Elfsborg (SWE) - S
Molde FK (NOR) - S
HJK Helsinki (FIN) - S
FK Ekranas (LTU) - S
FH Hafnarfj�rdur (ISL)
The New Saints FC (WAL)
Sligo Rovers FC (IRL)
Cliftonville FC (NIR)
FC Daugava Daugavpils (LVA)
JK N�mme Kalju (EST)

Group 3
FC BATE Borisov (BLR) - S
GNK Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) - S
FK Partizan (SRB) - S
�K Slovan Bratislava (SVK) - S
Maccabi Tel-Aviv FC (ISR) - S
FC Dinamo Tbilisi (GEO) - S
Győri ETO FC (HUN)
PFC Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL)
FC Shakhter Karagandy (KAZ)
CS Fola Esch (LUX)
Winner first qualifying round Match 1
Winner first qualifying round Match 2

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Rafa_02 Date: 24-06-2013, 09:46	The only strong teams are in third group, is that fair? Uefa is kidding us.

Author: cska
Date: 24-06-2013, 14:16

The situation with CSKA Sofia is growing more and more ridiculous.
Yesterday, Hristo Stoichkov showed that he is as much a legend footballer, as he is a fully incompetent in management and finance.
He showed a registry and stated that the "previous owners" of CSKA had transferred all the stocks (shares) to him.
Then he explained how he'll try to register a new club and file that the "old" one is declared insolvent.
Stoichkov explained a lot how he will be the owner and the coach (!) of the "new" CSKA and waived happily the register with the transferred shares as a "proof".
Obviously, Stoichkov is incompetent as a financier or a lawyer. Had he known legislation regarding business and commerce, he would ask himself "why should I receive the shares of an "old" club, if I want to register a "new" one ???"
He could simply go and register a new club without any talks or share transfers from the owners of the old club.
Stoichkov was tricked and used by the owners of the "old" club.
Many creditors to CSKA got panicked and they agreed to huge discounts to their loans in order to get paid with few cents per 1 euro of debt, rather than get paid with nothing if CSKA gets bankrupted.
But the show doesn't stop here.
This morning the Bulgarian FA received official request from CSKA that the club does not want to play in EL due to "financial reasons".
However, the club had already undergone financial monitoring by UEFA and the conclusion was that CSKA is OK and is eligible to play.
"Financial reasons" is not included in the UEFA rules as a valid reason to withdraw from a tournament. "Loss of license" or "violation of financial fairplay" are included, but simply "financial reasons" is not.
The President of our FA requested that based on the last minute request by CSKA, UEFA could allow Botev Plovdiv in their place.
However, the deadline for changes had expired. Also, Botev is less than 3 years old. The next team is Litex Lovech, but they had not applied for European football license, because they did not expect that situation.
UEFA in fact drew CSKA today. UEFA used the CSKA coefficient and seeded status. And UEFA named the team "Bulgaria N3", but stating that the participation of N3 depends on the "internal review of CSKA Sofia by the Bulgarian FA".
I thought that the sudden loss of license for CL in 2008 was the last absurd situation with CSKA.
Well, it seems absurd can grow deeper and deeper...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: paul7 Date: 24-06-2013, 15:32	i 2nd round europe league ue santa coloma can play fk astana.the distance between them is 6.500 km why not regionalism here like in champions league ?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 24-06-2013, 19:09	when uefa will say if steaua,fenerbache and besiktas can play in europe?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 24-06-2013, 19:57	In a few moments. By the way, our press noticed Steaua's badge is missing from CLQR2 page. Was it there before? Link

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Marcin Date: 24-06-2013, 20:24	For what I see in Romanian internet they have a new gossip that Steaua is excluded from European Cups for 2 years, we will see ...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 24-06-2013, 20:36	I wonder if Vardar could get very lucky here and get a bye? With the draws already done, would it be too late to start moving Romanian teams around? Perhaps more likely they would do like with Trabzonspor, and elevate the 2nd best Romanian team into the CL place. That would instead send Pandurii to the CL, and give the winner of Bala Town and Levadia Tallinn a bye to Q3.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Philipp Date: 24-06-2013, 21:19	Will there be a decision today?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: erdinc Date: 24-06-2013, 21:47	According to a Turkish news agency, the writing of the decisions are completed and will be delivered to the clubs and the persons being charged very soon. The decisions will be announced at uefa.com website tomorrow morning.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 24-06-2013, 21:47	Due to some delays related to the editing of the verdict, the decision will be announced .... tomorrow. So, stay tuned!

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: paul7 Date: 25-06-2013, 08:43	According to turkish media Fenerbahce receive 2 years ban,Besiktas just one year.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 25-06-2013, 13:18	Is there a possibility Petrolul and Astra to be affected with a possible Steaua ban?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: erdinc Date: 25-06-2013, 14:22	If you look at Clubs by Country at uefa.com UCL Romania and Turkey are deleted since the participations are not decided UEL Bulgaria is represented by CSKA and Levski Romania has only Astra, Turkey is deleted

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 25-06-2013, 14:33	It seems uefa.com is preparing for changes. If the UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body were fully independent then uefa.com would not know until the moment of publication

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 25-06-2013, 14:35	What is the link?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Michael_D Date: 25-06-2013, 14:46	If the clubs are charged they can still go to CAS? Could it be that they can prolong this until the clubs are in the tournament without getting a final verdict from CAS?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 25-06-2013, 14:51	CL and EL. If UEFA bans clubs they are out until CAS decides otherwise (I think).

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Michael_D Date: 25-06-2013, 14:59	One detail from the UEFA page which could be important. It is correct Steaua is not written as a club on the CL-page linked (even though all other clubs from CL round 1+2 are there). But the EL-list linked is only first round clubs and no Turkish teams enter first round, the lowest ranked enter second round.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Schnapper Date: 25-06-2013, 15:14 Edited by: Schnapper at: 25-06-2013, 15:17	It's interesting to see that Vaduz would meet Thun if they advance, as both teams play in the Swiss league (Vaduz in the 2nd tier). A similar case happened in 2006 as Basel met Vaduz. Interesting also to note that Botev Plovdid took the coefficient of CSKA Sofia, which would make them seeded in the Q2 round if they advance.

Author: executor
Date: 25-06-2013, 15:14

@Bert

No, it's the other way around and I'm not saying that because it's in our press. Some years ago, Partizan was banned by UEFA after the 1st leg with Zrinjski. They appealed and so, the 2nd leg was played. But the decision was upheld and only then were Partizan were excluded.

I really think this is bad for Steaua. If erdinc is right, then the clubs in question know the decision by know and, knowing the management of Steaua, no way they would've been quiet if if was favourable for them. They would've been all over the press by now. But, if the decision was to exclude Steaua, that would explain the silence...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 25-06-2013, 15:33	@executor Was that an appeal to CAS? If I remember well in the Sion case UEFA did not even obey a provisional ruling of CAS and said they would just wait for the final verdict.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: erdinc Date: 25-06-2013, 15:42	@Omonia The link is as follows http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2014/clubs/country/index.html

Author: Todor
Date: 25-06-2013, 15:46

It seems according to the UEFA regulations that a club, which was entered in the competion cannot be replaced by another one.

2.07 If a club refuses to enter the competition, ha
ving qualified for it on sporting
merit and obtained a licence from the competent nat
ional body, no other club
from the same association may be entered in its pla
ce and the access list for
the UEFA club competitions (Annex Ia) is rebalanced
accordingly;

So Botev can not replace CSKA and the points for the Bulgarian coefficient will be divided by four regardless of whether CSKA are reinstated or not.

However, if a club refuses to enter eithe
r of these two UEFA club
competitions and is therefore not replaced by anoth
er club from the same
association, the coefficient of the association con
cerned is calculated as
follows: the points obtained in the season in quest
ion by its clubs are added,
then divided by the total number of clubs from the
association that could have
entered the two UEFA club competitions in accordanc
e with the access list as
set out in Annex Ia.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 25-06-2013, 15:55	@Bert I don't remeber now, but logically, it would be less messy if the team in question is let to play, otherwise, if the decision is not upheld, UEFA has to reorganize the schedule. @Todor Yeah, I feel you are right. Should Steaua be banned, we'll be left with only the EL teams and the coefficient divided by 4...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 25-06-2013, 16:52	@ Todor Wait. That says if a club REFUSES to enter. They're not refusing, they're being kicked out.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 25-06-2013, 16:56

There is of course a difference in "refusing" to enter, and being "banned".

The 1st is voluntarily, and then it is impossible to enter another club (this article is to prevent lower ranked clubs trying to "buy" a CL/EL spot from a higher ranked club).

The 2nd isn't voluntarily, so another club might be replacing the banned club. Which happened for Fenerbah�e a few years ago who were replaced in CL-GS by Trabzonspor.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 25-06-2013, 17:00	@Forza-AZ But nobody replaced Trabzonspor, remember? So,OK, Steaua could be replaced by Pandurii, but I doubt Vaslui would be brought in their place...

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 25-06-2013, 17:28

Trabzonspor wasn't replaced because the QR's were already underway. Trabzonspor already played the 1st leg of EL-QR4, so there was no time to have another team take their place.

At this moment no matches have been played yet, so it is still possible to move up the Romanian teams to replace Steaua. Allthough this gives problems for the opponents of Astra, Pandurii and Petrolul since they have to change their arrangements for the upcoming matches.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Philipp Date: 25-06-2013, 17:54	Still waiting... will there be a decision today? This is getting ridiculous...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: luckyluke Date: 25-06-2013, 17:56	bert, when will you move season 2013/14 in first row and season 2012/13 to history?

Author: Michael_D
Date: 25-06-2013, 17:59
Edited by: Michael_D
at: 25-06-2013, 18:06

From a Romanian website following this case. (translated to English)
http://www.sport.ro/liga-campionilor/live-blog-meciul-cel-din-urna-steaua-astea
pta-cu-sufletul-la-gura-decizia-uefa-urmareste-tragerea-la-sorti.html

"6:48 p.m. According to Turkish media and journalists Hurriyet newspaper, Besiktas and Fenerbahce had already been warned by UEFA decision."

It looks as if the clubs are informed now according Romanian and Turkiwsh medias.. probably official on the web pages soon.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: cska Date: 25-06-2013, 18:04	Last minute info in Bulgarian newspapers and websites is that UEFA today sent a letter to the Bulgarian FA that Botev Plovdiv will be allowed to replace CSKA Sofia - contrary to all UEFA rules about teams "refusing" to enter competitions... Seems that our FA boss Borislav Mihaylov really has some influence being also a member of the Executive Committee in UEFA...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Michael_D Date: 25-06-2013, 18:25	Very latest information from Romania. "7:20 p.m. Newsflash: Sources close to the club confirmed for Pro TV star that Steaua was notified by UEFA! The verdict could be made public in the next few minutes!"

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Michael_D Date: 25-06-2013, 18:29 Edited by: Michael_D at: 25-06-2013, 18:55	Looks as if Steaua are able to play after all.. Edit: 19.29 Mihai Stoica: "It was normal decision, Steaua play in the Champions League next season, we are glad that went well" - DigiSport Edit number 2: It seems as if Steaua will be under observation the next 5 years and if they commit anything similar they will be banned. Now we wait for Fenerbahce and Besiktas decisions.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: erdinc Date: 25-06-2013, 18:39 Edited by: erdinc at: 25-06-2013, 18:58	Verdict on Besiktas One year ban from Europen Cups - official Club will appeal and ask for postponement

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Marcin Date: 25-06-2013, 18:42	So Feyenoord seeded at he moment in 4-th Europe League QR

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Michael_D Date: 25-06-2013, 19:00	As far as I can see in Turkish medias they say Besiktas 1 year ban, Fenerbahce 2 year ban. Can somebody confirm also the last ban? My Turkish is not the best.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: NecmiMurat_Istanbul Date: 25-06-2013, 19:07	@Michael_D: Besiktas' ban for 1 year is certain, but there's nothing about Fenerbah�e. So: CL GS - Galatasaray CL Q3 - Fenerbah�e EL Q4 - Bursaspor EL Q3 - Kayserispor (coef. 7.900) EL Q2 - Trabzonspor

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: erdinc Date: 25-06-2013, 19:23 Edited by: erdinc at: 25-06-2013, 19:42	Verdict on Fenerbah�e 2+1 year ban from European Cups Two year ban is certain and will be banned for another year if they repeat the offense within 5 years

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 25-06-2013, 19:23 Edited by: executor at: 25-06-2013, 19:23	Steaua is safe. OK, then, let the party begin! Just make sure you don't step onto a banana peel ... in the next QRs

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: NecmiMurat_Istanbul Date: 25-06-2013, 19:47	Now: CL GS - Galatasaray (54.400) CL Q3 - Bursaspor (14.900) EL Q4 - Kayserispor (7.900) EL Q3 - Kas�mpa�a (6.900) EL Q2 - Trabzonspor (21.400)

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 25-06-2013, 19:53	Which means that PAOK get seeded in CLQ3.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: joostc Date: 25-06-2013, 20:00 Edited by: joostc at: 25-06-2013, 20:01	which mean that Feyenoord and Utrecht are both seeded in the EL play-off!

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 25-06-2013, 20:06 Edited by: Lorric at: 25-06-2013, 20:08	It isn't a guarantee, of course. But they're seeded in Bert's lists now, and that is massive for the Netherlands. A huge boost to the odds of being seeded. EDIT: The other benefactor is Kuban Krasnodar in Q3. And that is a guarantee.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 25-06-2013, 20:10	The deck gets shuffled a bit in the ELGS prediction as well now, putting Genk into pot 2, and Rosenborg into Pot 3.

Author: Michael_D
Date: 25-06-2013, 20:24

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/disciplinary/news/news
id=1967131.html#decisions+besiktas+fenerbahce+steaua

"All clubs have the opportunity to appeal the decisions of the CDB to the UEFA Appeals Body.

Furthermore, in relation to the individuals of the clubs involved in the cases of Fenerbah�e and Beşiktaş, the CDB decided that certain additional information will be collected in order to consider in further detail the different position of each of the individuals concerned."

Is this CDB something else than CAS and are they not allowed to go to CAS?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 25-06-2013, 20:36	CDB = UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body, which made the current decision. Clubs can appeal to the independent Appeal Body within UEFA. And after that they can go to CAS (as a last resort for all UEFA decisions that are final).

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 25-06-2013, 21:07 Edited by: Lorric at: 25-06-2013, 21:08	I see Bert has updated his lists already. I forgot about Fenerbahce being predicted to drop to the ELGS. So it also sent Saint Etienne to Pot 2 and Zurich to Pot 3. Swansea and Wigan are now top of Pot 4...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: scapulaire24 Date: 25-06-2013, 22:02	Appeal is not suspensive ?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 25-06-2013, 22:37 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 25-06-2013, 22:39	Bert, I see you have Fiorentina before Udinese and therefor Fiorentina in Pot 1. Udinese however has a higher coefficient in the most recent season, so they should be ranked higher. Sociedad and Betis are also listed in the wrong order, same for Swansea and Wigan.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 25-06-2013, 22:39

The UEFA Appeals body will decide quickly. So, it's not relevant.

For CAS see also discussion above. I think it's not suspensive. In the Sion case UEFA Executive Committee even ignored a provisional ruling of the CAS, with the argument that they didn't have the power to overrule a decision of the Disciplinary Body. Only a final CAS verdict can do that, and that will take lots of time. I'm no lawyer, so this is simply what I understand of it.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 25-06-2013, 22:48	@Forza Yes you are right. Fixed now.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: JackB Date: 25-06-2013, 23:52	How would Swansea and Wigan be split if they go to different pots? Will it be the highest placed qualifier first?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 26-06-2013, 01:19	Wigan first.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: erdinc Date: 26-06-2013, 01:20	@ Bert Shouldn't the losing cup finalist replace the Cup Winner at QR4 when cup winner is not playing at UCL?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 26-06-2013, 08:38 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 26-06-2013, 08:40	@JackB Since both Wigan and Swansea have the same coefficient in all 5 years (they just have the English base coefficient) it comes down to the way they qualified. Wigan is ranked higher since they are the Cup winner. @erdinc No, the losing Cup finalist always gets the lowest EL-spot. It doesn't matter if the Cup winner is qualified for CL or if they have no licence.

Author: cska
Date: 26-06-2013, 08:54

Hm, today the news revealed how the Bulgarian FA managed to convince UEFA to allow replacement of CSKA with Botev Plovdiv in EL.
Formally, CSKA voluntarily withdrew itself from the competition with a letter to our FA.
However, as the user Todor correctly quoted UEFA rules, a team that withdraws voluntarily cannot be replaced by another team from the same association.
To bypass this rule, the Bulgarian FA officially revoked the license of CSKA for European football, effectively turning the voluntary withdrawal into an enforced ban.
In this way, our FA will also deflect the question from UEFA how the FA gave a license to a team that cannot afford one single away game in EL...
The next question from UEFA is how CSKA will play 1 whole season in our top league if they cannot afford one away game in EL...
In my view, it is just a matter of days to put the tombstone over the shield of my favorite team.

Author: Michael_D
Date: 26-06-2013, 09:40

As the expulsion of Fenerbahce and Besiktas affect the qualification very much (specially when it comes to seeded/unseeded teams) I think it is important to get everything 100 % clear.

Fenerbahce and Besiktas have received their bans from UEFA, 2+1 year and 1 year. They can appeal to another UEFA court and that decision is made quickly. But UEFA could also chose to ignore the veredict of the second court?

Then they can appeal to CAS and that usually takes very long time. As it takes very long time to make the CAS decision they are confirmed out of this years tournament and the result could only affect the seasons after this season.

Is this correct or have I misunderstood something?

Author: Ricardo
Date: 26-06-2013, 10:45

As Trabzonspor is sure to start in Q2 no mather what happens, the first match that will be effected by this are the Q3 matches, starting 30 July. It means CDB has until then to come to their decision. I don't believe in this month there could be a CDB + CAS verdict.

The draw however will already be made on 19 July. We could have the weird situation (again) that the draw for Q3 will be made with 'TurN2', 'TurN3' and 'TurN4', In that way the other Turkish teams could profit from the coefficients of the verdicted teams, like Fenerbahce would be seeded in CL-Q3, Bursaspor not. PAOK is the team that would take the seeded spot, but could due to protest miss that status again.....Who's in the CDB? Will they try to rule before 19th and help Greece or wait a bit longer and help Turkey. Wow what a Greek-Turkish conflict this has become!

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 26-06-2013, 12:33	UEFA CDB already has spoken, They will not rule again. The clubs have 3 days to appeal to the UEFA Appeals Body. Usually it doesn't take long for the Appeals Body to make a decision. We can expect that before July 19. For UEFA that decision will be final, I think. They will move on and will not be waiting for CAS.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: shisraelit Date: 28-06-2013, 21:50	is sure that rayo vallecano don t receive a licence or not?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: AlanK Date: 29-06-2013, 15:19	A check of Rayo's website seconds ago gives the same message as before--"Rayo will present an appeal to the TAS." No more information at this time.

Author: AlanK
Date: 07-07-2013, 15:48

Rayo has made their "pitch" to the TAS. Now the RFEF has until 20 July to declare before the TAS. And eventually, we'll maybe find out who is gonna play the EL--Sevilla or Rayo.

Should Rayo end up in the EL (frankly, unlikely), there's still the question as to whether their stadium meets the requirements for play in the EL--there would have to be a technical inspection of the stadium by the UEFA to decide this.

Author: caravaj
Date: 07-07-2013, 22:36

Bert,
Clearly off topic, but a new topic would be too much for this.
You have a little problem with Derry City in 2104 team ranking (1 point in excess) as UEFA have removed their point of 2009/2010.
In the 2013 table it is still worse

they shouldn't be in the table as they have no point and are a standard team with Ireland ranking.
Btw it is completely correct in your qualification sheet.
Btw (2nd), a question is: ought our ranking to meet the UEFA rules as only the qualification points are relevant?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 07-07-2013, 23:24
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 07-07-2013, 23:29

Well, technically UEFA didn't remove Derry City's point of 2009/10, but they consider the Derry City that qualified now as another club.
So the correct way would be to have 2 Derry City's in the rankings untill the 2009/10 season doesn't count any more.

And that is just what Bert has here. The "old" Derry City is at position 377 with 2,025, and the "new" Derry City is at position 413 with 1,525 right now.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 08-07-2013, 09:47	Forza is right. The ranking is based on all results in the last 5 years. It does not depend on the fact whether a club still exists or not. So, in the current ranking there are 2 clubs: the old "Derry City" and the new "Derry City FC". And as far as I know rankings at this site completly comply with the UEFA ruels.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: executor Date: 08-07-2013, 10:40	Bert, just a suggestion: can you write the names of the teams that no longer exist in Italics? It could make the list easier to read. Like, for instance, in Romania, Unirea Urziceni and FC Timișoara no longer exist, so it would be helpful if you could highlight them.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 08-07-2013, 12:03	executor, although that's a nice suggestion it's not so easy to implement. The database that is used for the automatic generation of the rankings does not contain that info. And the info might not always be easy to get (sometimes it takes a court decision before it is official). Anyway it can only last for 5 years at maximum.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 08-07-2013, 20:14	Is this confirmed now? Does that mean we'll get a new Rangers as well starting with the base Scotland coefficient if they get into Europe while the old Rangers' coefficient is still on the list?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: caravaj Date: 08-07-2013, 20:42	Bert, I surrender ! Completely logic ! You makes me think... I was looking for the 2nd Derry (the good one) in your tables. I realize that you didn't yet give them their 0.5 bonus points.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 08-07-2013, 23:02	@Lorric It would be strange if UEFA would treat Rangers different then Derry City, since their situation is about the same. So I also expect Rangers to start at 0 own points when they get into Europe again before the "old" Rangers coefficient expires.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 09-07-2013, 06:21	Could you imagine if Rangers lost a cup final to Celtic and qualified that way? They could conceivably come in unseeded in ELQ1...

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bert.kassies Date: 09-07-2013, 08:32	Yes, Lorric. The same holds true for Rangers if they qualify. But first they will have to wait 3 years before they can qualify.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 09-07-2013, 10:46	Rangers started again in 2012, so can they already qualify for EL in 2015? Or it that just to soon and will they have to wait for 2016? Of course they would need to make the Cup final if they want to qualify in 2015. In 2016 they can also qualify via the league again (if they have 2 promotions in 2014 and 2015).

Author: Lorric
Date: 09-07-2013, 15:57
Edited by: Lorric
at: 09-07-2013, 16:01

Thanks Bert. The Master has spoken!

I too am curious about Europe. You'd think it would be 2015/16, right? They got kicked out last year, ineligible this year, ineligible next year in 2014/15, that's 3 years, right? Thus the thought about a cup run losing to Celtic, as they'd be in Div 1, assuming that they get out of Div 2 this season.

At the same time, it wouldn't surprise me if it kicked in from the "birth" of the new team, because that was the old Rangers that got kicked out, and if 2016/17 was the first eligible year.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 09-07-2013, 16:15	It might also be the exact date the "new" Rangers were "founded" which is used for the period of 3 years. If that was before 1 July 2012, they would be eligible to play from 1 July 2015.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Lorric Date: 09-07-2013, 17:30 Edited by: Lorric at: 09-07-2013, 17:31	Hmmm, yet another possibility... It's funny to look at the Team Ranking and see all that blue, and Inter in green. No Inter in Europe, it's strange, isn't it?

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: Auld_Reekie Date: 10-07-2013, 00:23	Inter could also fall to unseeded level at CLQ4 and pot 3 status even if they make the group stages.

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: bugylibicska Date: 10-07-2013, 02:00	No Inter and no Liverpool! Two of the finest clubs missing and I`d add Sporting, maybe less famous, but surely a regular!

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: quexho Date: 11-07-2013, 11:05	It's certainly a shame about Inter, but about Liverpool I'm not that sure, they're a above-average UEFA contestant which great chances of winning it, but I don't see them doing well in CL

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: magyarszurker Date: 11-07-2013, 15:19 Edited by: magyarszurker at: 11-07-2013, 15:20	Levski Sofia are 2 down in the 20th minute of the 2nd leg, also down to ten men. I guess their failure would mean that - should the Croats get through -, at least Hajduk Split will be seeded in the 3rd round, but Crvena's and Vidi's position aren't hopeless either.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 11-07-2013, 15:53

Crvena zvezda and Videoton will only be seeded in QR3 if besides Levski also Rosenborg and/or Zilina are eliminated today. Which is extremely unlikely since both won the away leg already last week.

Remember that QR2 results have no influence on seeding in QR3 since the draw for QR3 is made before the 2nd legs of QR2.
So after today the seeding for QR3 is fixed (not taking into account possible changes in teams starting in QR3 due to license issues).

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: magyarszurker Date: 11-07-2013, 16:32	I didn't know that. Too bad this is the case. Thanks for the feedback, though!

Re: Qualification 2013/2014 Bert (cont'd again)
Author: omonia Date: 12-07-2013, 11:35	Has anyone made any predictions about the subgroups of the EL3QR?