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Author: Rienk
Date: 06-03-2013, 22:30
| Greetings,
I would like some opinions about the top 10 clubs in Europe at the moment.
My list:
1. Bayern Munich
2. Barcelona
3. Real Madeid
4. Manchester United
5. Borussia Dortmund
6. Juventus
7. PSG
8. Manchester City (still 2nd in PL)
9. Tottenham Hotspur
10.Atletico Madrid (even if bad in europe) |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 06-03-2013, 22:44
Edited by: Lorric
at: 06-03-2013, 22:44 | Hello. You need to do more than post a list if you want to get a discussion going. |
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Author: tfguenther
Date: 06-03-2013, 23:21
| Not really. We just have to wait for the king of fools (i.e. malko). When he sees that there are two german teams in the top 10, he will point out again and again and again and again and again how much superior Ligue 1 is to Bundesliga...
YAWN! |
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Author: IM88
Date: 07-03-2013, 00:07
| Surely AC Milan has to be on the top10 list if were talking about at the moment! Number 3 in Italy, unbeaten in the league the last 9 matches, and just beat number 2 on your list, Barcelona, 2-0 in CL! Otherwise a good list. |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 07-03-2013, 00:31
Edited by: bugylibicska
at: 07-03-2013, 00:34 | @ tfguenther
``Not really. We just have to wait for the king of fools (i.e. malko). When he sees that there are two german teams in the top 10, he will point out again and again and again and again and again how much superior Ligue 1 is to Bundesliga...
YAWN!``
That was good, you made me laugh heartily. ``King of fools``, how poignant, without the fools he couldn`t be king.
For me right now it`s (without the precise sequence) Barcelona, Real Madrid (Atletico Madrid might have the potential), MU (Chelsea belonged here not so long ago, Man City has still lots to prove, Arsenal is in a serious decline, Tottenham same as A. Madrid and Liverpool just vanished), Bayern Munchen (Dortmund similar to A. Madrid and Tottenham), Juventus (Milan getting out of the slump, Napoli is just a long shot, Inter in a decline). PSG is not more than a long shot and maybe a promise. On the East Shakhtar couldn`t deliver, now only Anzhi who might have a future. |
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Author: ELECTRIC
Date: 07-03-2013, 10:24
| That is not a bad idea, and the top 10 right now might be quite different then it was in fall 2012 ( at least for me)The most impressive improvement I saw from two italian teams, after 2-3 years of poor performances, I think Milan and Juventus deserve to get into top 10, Napoli is on the right way, too.
Then Barca and Real from Spain for sure, no matter what the present form of any of them. Then, Bayern and probably Borussia (they did well in group, and it was not possible to see their form right now.
From Albion, ManU, ManCity and after a long time I favour Liverpool, they are playing quite attractive football right now. And last spot would be divided by Porto and probably Anji ( I am quite neutral to russian teams performances, maybe a little biased against them, because I enjoy when they lose, But in the case of glorious wins and beatiful performances I think I enjoy even more) after Villian (one of the best players nowadays and my favourite) joined them I will be cheering for them. As to PSG, after last evening I do not see them in top 10 yet, they need to spend quite a lot of money to get balanced team and still have to prove they deserve to be in top 10.
And watch Plzen, there wasn`t a team in CZ for a long time with such a team speed, I mean the players understand each other quite well and have the skills to deliver the ball where they want in a few seconds. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 07-03-2013, 12:51
| King of Fools. Yes. I don't want to call the people here fools, they are intelligent and well intentioned, and I know what it's like to be in the king's court if you like, but by now everyone knows what he is, and I've been banging the drum for months that he has no power if you ignore him. The Court Jester is sat on the throne. Let him sit there, while you do something else. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 07-03-2013, 14:00
Edited by: Lorric
at: 07-03-2013, 14:01 | @ bugylibicska
What do you mean Tottenham just vanished?! Tottenham would have qualified for the CL this year if not for Chelsea winning it, they're doing well in the Europa, last 16, beat Lyon, and haven't lost a match yet. And they are comfortably on course to qualify for next year's CL. Bale is playing like an absolute beast right now. |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 07-03-2013, 15:52
| @Lorric
You`ve misread my sentence. I`ve written that Tottenham is the same as A. Madrid and Liverpool is the one who vanished. |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 07-03-2013, 17:51
| @ELECTRIC
``From Albion, ManU, ManCity and after a long time I favour Liverpool, they are playing quite attractive football right now.``
Interesting. I see them (Liverpool) almost every week in the EPL and sometimes they play well against teams like Wigan etc., but they sit now on 7th place (they were even lower) and haven`t won a single game against teams above them! After Swansea took the League cup spot, Liverpool are in real danger to miss out on Europe all-together for next season. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 07-03-2013, 17:58
| @ bugylibicska
Ah. Sorry.
On Liverpool, I put this in another thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q3Fb1n9hHw
Liverpool have some huge weaknesses, but playing lovely football is not one of them. They're a strange team with some big strengths and big weaknesses.
I remember either last season or the season before, the stats on chance creation vs chance conversion were pretty insane for Liverpool, they were pretty high in the list for chance creation, and dead last in chance conversion %. |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 07-03-2013, 18:59
| @Lorric
It`s all right. Yes, I`ve read it. I`m sorry to see Liverpool in their current state, because I used to like them. Something is very wrong there, Gerrard is not his old one and only Suarez keeps them not sinking even lower. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 07-03-2013, 23:20
Edited by: Lorric
at: 07-03-2013, 23:25 | Sturridge is doing well there though. Someone else to finish the chances they create is so valuable, as besides the obvious, before other teams knew they just had to shut down Suarez. And as a supporter of the English national team, which is short on striking talent, if he starts flourishing, that will be excellent.
Tonights matches, good stuff. Newcastle took up a compact formation, and Anzhi had no answer to it. 0-0 a great result for them against a team which beat the previous 7 teams that met them in Russia this European season. Chelsea fell to an energised Steaua 1-0, but I was encouraged by the effort Chelsea put into the match. Let's see how Steaua do without their fantastic support and the fans behind Chelsea in the return.
But Tottenham... how I love that team. Utter dominance, excellent football for 90mins. And a thoroughly deserved 3-0 win. Another Europa League title on the horizon for AVB? They were completely superior to Inter for nearly every minute of the game. Inter can thank Handanovic for not being totally annihilated. |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 08-03-2013, 01:01
| Sturridge is very volatile, arrogant and his ego way bigger than his talent. I`m not sure if he can solve Liverpool problems. For the coach everything is fantastic, terrific, he`s a big, cheap talker, won`t be there for long. Liverpool is in a decline for way too long for a club of its history, tradition, fame. Maybe I`m too harsh in my judgement, but I`d really like to see them start climbing upward.
Too bad I haven`t seen the Tottenham game. From now on, I believe they`re the favourites to win the EL and I like their coach, he`s not the typical bullshitter, like many in the EPL and elsewhere. Despite being in a win or die fight for the CL spot, he`s taking the EL seriously. He promised so and kept his word! |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 08-03-2013, 01:34
Edited by: Lorric
at: 08-03-2013, 01:40 | I guess we'll just have to wait and see with Sturridge, he's performing way above what I expected he would when they signed him, but can he keep it up?
Ah yes, I'd forgotten that when I think of Liverpool's problems, yes, that's a big part of it if you ask me. There comes a time when the manager has to say it's not alright, and demand improvement. There's no pressure on the players to improve, because the boss is happy with what they're turning out.
Tottenham, 57% possession, 18 shots, 13 on target. They just steamrolled over Inter, they couldn't deal with them. Handanovic stopped it from being a massacre. Makes me think of AVB's Porto team that were just crushing everything in their path on their Europa run. AVB likes this competition I'm sure after the Porto run. And Tottenham have fielded strong teams throughout the competition. Redknapp threw it under the bus to chase the CL and got 4th. AVB is fielding strong sides and is currently 3rd. |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 08-03-2013, 01:52
| What we do know is that Bale will be hoping to add to his 20 goals and six assists in 34 appearances this season when Spurs entertain Internazionale at White Hart Lane tonight – and manager André Villas-Boas is convinced his side can compete on two fronts. "I think what Tottenham has shown this season is an example that contradicts a lot of science, or science-fiction," he said, burning his complete L Ron Hubbard collection. "There is a lot of rest time between a Thursday and a Sunday. We're looking forward to Inter. In the last 16 of the competition, they represent the best of the best."
See, that`s how a coach should talk, not whining about long trips to nolands, tiredness, burnout because playing too many games etc. Yeah, that was like Harry Redknapp one of the greatest snake-oil salesman in England. I`d be hardpressed to imagine a bigger clown than him. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 08-03-2013, 02:10
Edited by: Lorric
at: 08-03-2013, 02:23 | I wouldn't put Harry Redknapp down too much, he did get Spurs into their first CL and then to the quarter finals, and if not for Chelsea, would have at least achieved his goal to qualify for the CL again. I didn't want him as England manager though, I wasn't on that bandwagon. For English managers I would have chosen Hodgson myself, so was happy with that, but would have rather gone with a better foreign manager given the choice. But if it had to be English, I think they picked the right man, not the media's darling, Redknapp.
I also don't believe in throwing the Europa League. Staying in the tournament builds a winning mentality, gets the team used to the rigours of playing in Europe alongside domestic campaigning, preparing the team to compete in the Champions League, if they're good enough to qualify. And of course, it nets the club the all important coefficient points. Winning that competition is excellent for your coefficient, if AVB goes deep into this year's tournament, it will be pot B instead of Pot C in the CL if he qualifies. Atletico Madrid will probably walk straight into Pot A in next year's CL. And of course, a win like tonights will surely put the players on a high. Morale and confidence are a big deal in football, and there's nothing like winning match after match after match. AVB's Porto won the league and the Europa League. They won all but 3 league games, which they drew. They won the league by 21pts, they could easily have taken their foot off the gas after the title was won or all but won and focused on the Europa League, but they just kept right on going.
Tottenham are undefeated in their last 12 Premier League games, winning 8 of them, and have knocked out Lyon and look to have pretty much knocked out Inter. Momentum... |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 08-03-2013, 04:06
| Well, just watch the fallout with the owners of QPR after relegation. They spent like a drunken sailor, same thing as happened in Portsmouth and what about ``saving`` Southampton straight back to the championship. Lots of coaches would guide Tottenham into the best 4, they`re a good team.
Yesterday, I wrote down the remaining teams and thought about who could win the cup. I came up with Chelsea, the winner of the Tottenham-Inter game and Zenit (just because they`d won it already). It could be only Tottenham standing alone after the return legs. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 08-03-2013, 11:48
Edited by: Lorric
at: 08-03-2013, 12:04 | Tottenham were LAST when Redknapp took over, and had never got CL. And that mess with QPR was created before he got there, it's not his team.
I actually don't know about Southampton at all. But Portsmouth, it's not his fault really if you ask me. The board makes these decisions, he doesn't take the money off them, they put it in his hands. He used it and made the team much stronger, but they're the ones who gambled and lost. Or got the sums wrong. It's not as if he signed a bunch of duds.
Yes, I agree the man is overhyped and overrated, but only really by the media. He's a good manager if you ask me. And if I was QPR, I'd keep him. If they're willing to spend more money, give it to him. Let him clear out these players, and get some new ones in. I don't understand what happened with QPR though, they have players who were so good at their previous clubs. But they're not fighting for the shirt, the team they've got, they should be in or near the top half if you ask me, I thought they'd be a force to be reckoned with. But there's something just WRONG there at the club. Their previous manager couldn't do anything, and Redknapp, while he's done better and closed the gap to safety, it might not be enough. He could still pull it off though, he's got the gap down to 4pts, I think it was 10 when he took over. That's hardly insurmountable over the last 10 games, if he can just get those players to push for it, he can do it. It's going to be an interesting sub-plot in the Premier League.
EDIT: What about Lazio? They seem to be taking this very seriously. Another team that deserves a lot of credit when they're in a Champions League dogfight. They've been impressive. They were in the same group as Tottenham, and like Tottenham, are one of only 5 clubs in Europe that haven't lost a match yet. And they're beating Bundesliga teams now, who are normally good in the Europa League, and beating them well. Practicality says I'd rather Tottenham avoid them, but I'd be very intrigued to see them face each other again and settle it, who was the best. |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 08-03-2013, 17:05
| Yes, I remember, but that was not a normal situation. After Spurs finished 5th the previous year (in those times Arsenal and Liverpool were fixed entities in the best four, so it looked almost impossible for outsiders to break into CL places) Martin Jol the coach was fired by the ambitious Levy and Juande Ramos was installed. I think the players wanted to get rid of him, but I`m not an insider. So, it was obvious, under any coach Spurs had only one way to go: up. Redknapp was the lucky guy, nobody seriously believed that Spurs gets relegated.
Southampton got relegated under his guidance, he`s very much dispised there.
Yes, QPR was a mess already, but when he came in talked nothing, but the irresponsible spending spree of the owners` money under Hughes and voila, he spent like a madman during the winter window and if QPR will be relagated, pretty sure they`ll go bust.
Anyway, my antipathy springs toward him mainly because during his years he made a mockery of the EL, talking nonsense and started to believe in his own invincibility.
Lazio is one of my favourite clubs in Italy, but I cannot see them as serious contenders. They badly miss Klose now and their squad has no real depth. I wish to be proven wrong though, but they had quite an easy group (Maribor and a declining Panathinaikos) and Gladbach, Stuttgart not exactly Bayern or Dortmund. They don`t even field their strongest line-ups, but it seems to be working until now. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 08-03-2013, 18:40
Edited by: Lorric
at: 08-03-2013, 18:43 | Sure they could only go up, but no one would have expected them to go as far up as he took them.
QPR, we'll just have to see if he can dig them out of that hole. What will you think if they survive?
On the subject of Europa League, I never saw it as him thinking himself invincible, just the prioritising that all kinds of clubs take when it comes to that competition. You shouldn't single him out for that when there are many other "offenders". I would have laughed if he didn't get CL "normally", but just about any other year, he would have done what he set out to do. Aston Villa did this one year. They threw the Europa away after getting to the last 32. And they had a double digit lead over Arsenal in 4th, and lost it! Idiots! And since then, it's been downhill all the way for Aston Villa, and this year, may well be down to the 2nd tier of English football. And of course the Italians are notorious for collectively dismissing this competition. Redknapp certainly isn't invincible, as soon as he was linked with the England job, Spurs' form took a tremendous nosedive. I would have still favoured Hodgson before that, but only slightly. But after that, it was clear he wasn't the man for the job. The England manager has to be very mentally strong, and clearly he is not. |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 08-03-2013, 20:10
| I`d certainly not bet against QPR, on paper they`ve a much stronger squad than relegation candidates, but we all know that names only do not make a team. The case is for this year they might not need 40 points to survive, but maybe 36 will do. And I cannot see Wigan, Reading or even Aston Villa making 40 points, so, yes, they still have a chance to survive. Can he field a team that fights for their color, for teammates, for the future of the club, that`s the question and I doubt it. It`s a pure gamble by now, if they survive he`s again Harry Houdini, if not he`ll blame everybody else and he got it started already. My opinion about him won`t change, I know he`s not the only clown (maybe another king of fools), but his name just came up with Tottenham (I think you brought it up) and I`ve made some comments. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 08-03-2013, 21:09
| Okay. |
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Author: apurvdanke
Date: 12-04-2013, 13:22
| for me the logic is as explained below.
after CL group stage, eight 3rd placed teams are shifted to europa league, and 16 teams remain in CL knockout. By this corollary, the winner of Europa league is the 17th best team in Europe. Next, after first knockout round of CL, 8 quarterfinalists remain. So again by corollary, these 8 teams are in the top 10 teams in Europe. Remaining 2 teams can be chosen from the losing round of 16 participants.
So my top 10 would be.
1. Bayern Munich
2. Real Madrid
3. Barcelona.
4. Borussia Dortmund.
5. PSG
6. Malaga.
7. Galatasaray.
8. Juventus.
9. My pick would be Man U.
10. My pick would be AC Milan. |
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Author: Nixda
Date: 12-04-2013, 16:51
| I wouldnt base on that logic.
If the "real" top10 would consist of 5 teams from one country. They couldnt all play CL so one would have to play EL. Even if the team had a perfect 4:0 in every game, your logic would rate them behind the worst team reaching the CL ko phase. |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 15-04-2013, 06:20
| @Lorric
Remember what I said here about Redknapp not so long ago:
http://www.footytube.com/news/guardian/qpr-likely-to-be-stuck-with-their-overpa
id-failures-if-they-are-relegated-L23282?ref=hp_newsfeed |
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Author: apurvdanke
Date: 15-04-2013, 14:33
| @Nixda
But would 5 teams any one country be ever be in the top 10? I seriously doubt it, given the type of fierce competition in European football. Probably 2 or even 3 but not more than that. There are many different perspectives to find out the top 10. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 15-04-2013, 15:08
Edited by: Lorric
at: 15-04-2013, 15:10 | @ bugylibicska
There's something rotten at QPR. I don't understand how players of that calibre can perform so terribly, I would have predicted for QPR mid-table easily and maybe even top half at the start of the season. They're all but relegated now.
I'd like to know what that team looked like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Football_League_Championship#Leagu
e_table
And what those players are doing now. It's interesting that the other two teams that came up are now comfortably established in the Premier League, and the playoff winner, Swansea, very comfortable. |
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Author: Malko
Date: 15-04-2013, 15:38
| Top 5 :
1. Barcelona
2. Paris
3. Real
4. Manchester United
5. Bayern Munich |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 15-04-2013, 15:49
Edited by: bugylibicska
at: 15-04-2013, 16:01 | @Lorric
Yes, something is very rotten there! And we`ve this saying: the fish stinks from the head.
P.S. Just look at Sunderland in comparison. Before Paolo Di Canio arrived they`re a bunch of lethargic, spiritless players and this guy Di Canio infected them with self-belief and such a passion that I`m willing to bet they will survive! And I thought, they`re good candidates for relegation, but not anymore! He became a legend in less than 2 weeks in Sunderland! Redknapp is not a good coach of course, he blames the players, the past coaches and anything, but himself. He can`t inspire people, because anybody with a brain of a chicken can see through him, he`s just a fraud! |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 15-04-2013, 15:59
Edited by: Lorric
at: 15-04-2013, 16:00 | Yes, the fools who run the place. And they're going to take it in the wallet.
This man came in right after QPR won that promotion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Fernandes#Queens_Park_Rangers
Look at all those signings, gutted out what was probably a talented team that you could build on. The two teams they beat in the Championship that year are doing well in the Premier League. I remember a lot of people talking up QPR before then due to the style with which they won the Championship. |
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Author: bugylibicska
Date: 16-04-2013, 14:48
Edited by: bugylibicska
at: 16-04-2013, 14:49 | They`ve turned on the heat in the kitchen at QPR:
http://www.footytube.com/news/guardian/qpr-secure-bank-loan-for-first-time-duri
ng-reign-of-tony-fernandes-L23306?ref=hp_newsfeed |
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