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top 3 countries of europe...
Author: walter-wade Date: 22-01-2013, 14:07	hi guys,i wanna ask u what the top 3 european countries where the amount of money spent are unproportional with the success of clubs represented in european cups are?

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Rienk Date: 25-01-2013, 18:31	Netherlands (not this year) Belgium Portugal/Germany

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 25-01-2013, 21:19	I wonder how Belarus compares, when you think of the exploits of BATE Borisov? They can't spend too much surely, look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_BATE_Borisov A 5,402 capacity stadium, and with the exception of one Armenian player, the entire squad is Belorussian. Something to admire in this day and age.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 26-01-2013, 13:09 Edited by: Malko at: 26-01-2013, 13:39	wow....someone says germany. Yes it is true that there is much money in German Bundesliga and no international victories at the key...really unproportional.....i am glad someone (Rienk) other like me says it finally.

Author: Zarastro
Date: 26-01-2013, 19:45

This is a very subjective question, you could basically make a case for every league.

I mean look at Spain, Barca enjoys a time of unparalled success in Europe but Real Madrid invested so much money and yet failed to win a CL or make it even to the final in the last 10 years.

The EPL had many trophies but considering the amount of money English clubs invested, that's not surprising. Chelski invested more than 1bn€ until they won the trophy, Man City invested more than 500m€ so far with no success, Arsenal and ManU also paid a lot of money and so on. Still the EPL probably has the best cost/success ratio.

Ligue 1, well they is traditionally the weakest league of the big 5 so I guess nobody expected them to win another CL trophy. Still one trophy in the last 20 years are pretty bad if you ask me.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 26-01-2013, 20:19	I thought the question was the other way around, more success on less money.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: vavact2 Date: 26-01-2013, 20:52 Edited by: vavact2 at: 26-01-2013, 20:59	If someone had any doubt that malko is an internet troll, then his response here proves it. Malko deliberately "misunderstood" Rienk's post just so he could cause an argument and disrupt a normal discussion.

Author: Zarastro
Date: 26-01-2013, 21:51
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 26-01-2013, 22:24

Sry I misunderstood the question as well, but not out of malice.

I'd second Portugal really. Portugal is a small country and yet they pose a serious challenge to the big 5 (they are actually seen as Germany's biggest threat in the immediate future by German fans) plus they actually won some trophies. The only problem are the high amounts of debt under which clubs from Portugal are suffering.

The Netherlands are also punching above their weight one bad year seems to be an exception rather than the rule.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 26-01-2013, 22:17	Once again the troll has been exposed.

Author: Malko
Date: 27-01-2013, 11:30
Edited by: Malko
at: 27-01-2013, 11:34

Well Zarastro, Bundesliga is as weak, if you see the results in the "modern times" No trophy also.......All trophys go to Spain,Italy and England, and sometimes...a surprise like Portugal was one. (the weakest of the big 5? No, only the one with less points in the last 5 years.......the league in its whole is another question)

Lorric, more success on less money????? Then, you cannot speak of Germany at all. there is much money and no success.

But even if you consider "success" more than a final win, Germany is a very bad example. You cannot speak of Germany as one of the "richest", with the bioggest TV rights aso aso....and on the other side say with not much money, they would have results. They have some relative results (without wins), but with many many much money! So bad example this way around

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Rienk Date: 27-01-2013, 14:59	I meant that Germany has less money than England and Spain but they are doing well at the moment with great talent. Not that they are doing bad with much money.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 27-01-2013, 15:27	Rienk, okay, but then you are not well informed. German football generates much money, more than Ligue 1 or Serie A presently,...and the victories do not come. Cocnerning "what money",see Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg for example......with NO results, even not nationally ....

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: UploaderAfonso Date: 27-01-2013, 16:28	Was one? What do you mean? Of the big 5 or of the big 6? What about the french league in its whole?

Author: Zarastro
Date: 27-01-2013, 17:14
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 27-01-2013, 17:18

"German football generates much money, more than Ligue 1 or Serie A presently,...and the victories do not come."

Yes but this has only been the case since recently. The Bundesliga got for their previous tv deal only 450m€ compared to Serie A and Ligue 1 which received more than 600m€ each. Bayern almost won the CL last year, they will probably win it in the next 5 years. The Bundesliga is on the rise no doubt about it, we see it each year, the results of the German teams which compete in Europe are getting better and better. Bayern used the last years to rebuild and invest money strategically, experts believe that Bayern Munich will become the club with the highest income by 2020. Victories and trophies will soon follow, don't worry. We see already the fruits of this development, both Schalke and Dortmund are establishing themselves among the top european clubs again and Bayern managed to attract the interest of Guardiola himself. The last decade was necessary for the Bundesliga to regain her past strengh, this decade will be the one when we will win trophies again!

PS: It is certainly funny how you define success only about trophies? I mean what does that say about Ligue 1?

Author: Malko
Date: 27-01-2013, 17:51

Zaratsro. I rather think that presently Germanys results are better than normal. Bundesliga was on the rise, but the summit is probably reached. Teams like Dortmund and Schalke cannot assure regularly and Bayern has too much concurrence on the "Top" to think reasonably they'll win the CL in the next days. It was rather surprising seeing them in the final last year.....about your bookmakers....look again at the bookmakers when the 4 half-finalists were known. Bayern-Chelsea was the most unprobable final....BarcaReal the most probable. I do not think Bayern gets as close as they were in the next years. I even do not think that in any other of the 5 big leagues, they would be on top like in germany.

Author: nemesys
Date: 27-01-2013, 19:39

@walter-wade

Interesting question. Actually any answer is quite debatable and opens up a lot of possible interpretations of success: for example, was more successful Shakthar being often eliminated from CL GS but winning an EL, or Lyon winning nothing but qualifying to the CL KOs for many consecutive seasons? Internazione able to win a CL, or Bayern participating to 2 finals few seasons apart?

If by success you mean only the ability to bring home trophies, then IMHO the logical answer can only be Premiership, La Liga, Serie A and the Portuguese Premiera, the most successful sides of the recent past; while if by success you mean the ability to raise up the quality level of the league, then Bundesliga could be a reasonable option, no matter not winning anything recently.

Just my 2 cennts.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Author: Zarastro
Date: 27-01-2013, 21:45
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 28-01-2013, 01:11

"Bayern has too much concurrence on the "Top" to think reasonably they'll win the CL in the next days."

The same can be said about any other time except for Barcelona. Just look at Real and how much money they have invested and yet they didn't win the CL in the last 10 years. Bayern have a very good outlook so they will challenge for the trophy, this is as much as someone can reasonably predict.

"look again at the bookmakers when the 4 half-finalists were known. Bayern-Chelsea was the most unprobable fina"

Sure, but many predicted that Bayern could defeat Real, the odds were as close as was the game. Bayern has one of the best management in the world, they managed to substantially uprgrade the last squad and build the foundation for the future. They build a new stadium which is already a gold mine, they have no debts and the FFP will shift the balance in their favour. You don't like Bayern but this doesn't change the fact that Bayern will probably become the richest club by 2020.

"I rather think that presently Germanys results are better than normal." Not really, as long as they are not winning trophies, they are still underperforming. The results in the last 10 years were not normal for the Bundesliga, they were a low point in the history of the Bundesliga. We are slowly approaching our normal standard.

"but the summit is probably reached" The Bundesliga has still much room to improve, both financially and in terms of trophies. The Bundesliga just increased their yearly revenue by 7% and will pass both Italy and Spain in the next years which are suffering from austerity. The last television deal was about 650m€, experts believe that the next one will be around 800m€ or more. Right now, Spanish clubs rule the Europa League but we already see them selling their best players in order to meet the reglements with FFP. Martinez, Llorente, the next one will be Falcao to leave. Once Bayern, Dortmund and Schalke have paid off their stadium they will be able to invest significant more money in the transfer market. Neither Dortmund nor Schalke will come close to Bayern, but they will establish themselves among the ten clubs with the highest revenue.

Now please tell me why the Bundesliga will decline soon and pls use some facts and not your wishful thinking or your disdain for German football. All economic data suggest that the Bundesliga will continue to prosper, German clubs have almost no debt and thus will greatly profit from FFP, German talents stay in Germany (no exodus like in France) and German teams are becoming more and more competive in Europe. Even teams with no international experience like Hannover or Gladbach are doing very well. Moreover the Bundesliga is becoming more and more attractive to foreign players and managers which will make the Bundesliga more attractive to foreign fans.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: UploaderAfonso Date: 27-01-2013, 23:45	Always saying the wrong name of the portuguese league...

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 28-01-2013, 14:15	That german talents stay in germany and french not has also to do with that the english clubs have more confidence in a french talent....it's not good for the Loigue1, but for its image.....

Author: Zarastro
Date: 28-01-2013, 15:12
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 28-01-2013, 15:14

Malko this was the case in the past but not presently. It has just become very difficult for foreign teams to lure German players out of the Bundesliga due to the new competivness of German teams. Arsenal offered 40m€ for Goetze last summer but Dortmund declined, according to some newspaper Wenger approached Dortmund again this January but they declined again. Arsenal intented to buy Reus last year but he went to Dortmund so they settled for Podolski and Giroud, a mistake as any Gunner fan will tell you. Chelsea wanted to buy Schürrle and Bender, but Leverkusen refused to sell them. No French team except PSG could refuse similar offers. That French talents go to mediocre clubs in England is just a sign of the lack of quality of French teams. Dortmund and Schalke can offer their players conditions no French team can except PSG that's why you don't see German players leave when the first opportunity arises. And really, all that PSG can offer is money but as we saw with Guardiola, money is not always the deciding factor. We saw it in the money league where Dortmund and Schalke were well ahead of the likes of Marseille. French talents are decent but they are not from the same quality we see currently in Spain and Germany,(you have no Götze, no Reus, no Hummels et all.) thats the truth and the few good players you have leave Ligue 1 as soon as they can because they know that they can only play against quality opponents elsewhere. PSG is not enough, you need teams comparable to Dortmund, Schalke and Leverkusen if you want a throughly competive league and quite frankly this is not the case in Ligue 1. And before you tell me you have these teams then pls take a look which teams qualified from the GS this year and tell me with a straight face that Marseille is comparable to Dortmund right now. Bordeaux looks decent and is probably comparable to Eintrach Frankfurt right not, but the gap to Dortmund is still significant.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: nemesys Date: 28-01-2013, 21:34	Always saying the wrong name of the portuguese league... My apologies. I meant Portuguese Primeira, of course. - nemesys

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: UploaderAfonso Date: 28-01-2013, 21:54	It's ok.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Rienk Date: 28-01-2013, 22:31	@ Zarastro Agreed.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Metallica Date: 29-01-2013, 13:59	Russia, Ukraine and Turkey i think =)

Author: Malko
Date: 29-01-2013, 14:40
Edited by: Malko
at: 29-01-2013, 14:42

Zarastro : "(you have no Götze, no Reus, no Hummels et all.) "
that's waht i cant understand, you overrate those players compared to the french players which jhsut went to England.....
Olivier Giroud is as good as Goetze or Reus..
Giroud got int french national team, where as a player it's more diffuclut to get than in the german national team, believe me....there is much much more choice for for Deschamps than for Löw....
And Saint-Etienne kept Aubameyang when Newcastle wanted it. Lyon declined the offer from schalke for Bastos ...but the problem there is : lyon doesn't want Bastos anymore.....Schalke wanted it......
so it is not all white and black..there are shadows of grey......

..

what about Guardiola? he went there where he is sure getting the promised money.....not for winning much titles.

Author: AlanK
Date: 29-01-2013, 15:36

Malko:

This is a really offensive post. Guardiola did NOT take the big-money offers from England. While his salary is still very big money, this was not the prime factor in his choice by any means.
Your comments about comparative skills/value of players are pretty much out to lunch. You may have arguing points in some cases, but the distortion of reality in many of your comments makes one shake one's head in wonder.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Nixda Date: 29-01-2013, 16:46	@Malko If someone would answer you with a 26yo player when the talk is about players of age 20-23 you would have run havok about why that player is not relevant at all. And regarding Lyon and Bastos it seems its only about the cash as they have allowed him to do the medical check at Schalke yesterday.

Author: Malko
Date: 29-01-2013, 17:48

Nixda, i said Lyon wants to separate from Bastos. he has done his time. Noone thinks when he gets to Schalke is a promotion........

Guardiola got there cause he knows that he will get the promised money. Maybe a little less than in England, but for more long probably....that's what i meant.

Now that germany has young talents than reus or Goetze, they think that they are the best in the world and forget, that others, like France, has those players again and again for more than a decade now.....

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 29-01-2013, 19:18 Edited by: Lorric at: 29-01-2013, 19:18	Malko's lost it... Though did he ever have it in the first place?

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 29-01-2013, 19:21	Lorric, you are belgian, are you' Well, with Een hazard for example, also you have a young talent that is at least equal to the Goetzes or Reuses...... It was alwys like that. when in Bundesliga somebody managed to pass someone with tha ball on his feet, he was called "dribbelkünstler". They always exagerate.....

Author: Zarastro
Date: 29-01-2013, 19:47
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 29-01-2013, 20:06

"Guardiola got there cause he knows that he will get the promised money. Maybe a little less than in England, but for more long probably....that's what i meant."

Chelsea offered him a 5 years contract with 22m€ each year. He signed a 3 year contract with Bayern for 10m€ each year. I'd call 30m€ instead of 110m€ more than just a bit less. The thing everybody except you have realized that Bayern will challenge for the CL trophy in the next years. What you say is simply laughable, if Guardiola were after the money he could have gone to Chelsea or PSG.

"Olivier Giroud is as good as Goetze or Reus.." Yeah sure thats why he is still inconsistent in Arsenal. Giroud is a decent player, but he is older than Goetze and Reus who could one day become Ballon d'Or contenders. Goetze is according to transfermarkt.de more than 40m€ worth. Reus 36m€. Hummels 24m€. Even Podolski is valued 23me. Giroud makes a very impressive 15m€. But pls tell me which young French players are considered on the same level as Goetze and Reus and who have performed similar feats(Titles and CL experience).

"that's waht i cant understand, you overrate those players compared to the french players which jhsut went to England." Because playing for a mediocre team in England is supposed to impress me? The gap in quality between the EPL and the Bundesliga is not as big as it was once. In rate Goetze and Reus so much because a)managers like SAF and Wenger do the same and b) because they have performed terrificly on the international level in the CL aginst teams like Real Madrid.

"Giroud got int french national team, where as a player it's more diffuclut to get than in the german national team, believe me." Before 2008 maybe. Now it is certainly the opposite, Goetze would be already a regular starter if he were born in France. Player like Gündogan who face stiff position would be welcomed with open arms by Dechamps.

".there is much much more choice for for Deschamps than for Löw" Deschamps certainly wished he had half the alternatives Löw has, especially for the midfield.

But funny how you ignored my question for proofs why you think that the Bundesliga will decline soon. Now you say that French talents are as good as German talents but even if that were true. which it isn't, it doesn't matter because French player leave Ligue 1 immediately when offered the chance. But I guess your predicitions concerning the future of German football are not very accurate, considering you wrote this 2008:

"I also think that if Germany will take the 4th place, even at the end of next season, it will be difficult to hold the seasons after."

Yeah the BL already lost contact with the 4th place... But for different reasons than you had probably in mind back then.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 29-01-2013, 20:50 Edited by: Lorric at: 29-01-2013, 20:50	Belgian, eh? You have lost it! I'm English!

Author: Zarastro
Date: 29-01-2013, 22:53
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 30-01-2013, 01:58

"they think that they are the best in the world and forget, that others, like France, has those players again and again for more than a decade now....."

You know what is funny? Those who are the most vocal about the rise of the Bundesliga are rarely German teams or managers. Mourinho predicted that Dortmund would be Real's biggest opponent in the GS. SAF said that Dortmund could win the CL when nobody in Germany would have gone so far saying this. And Wenger said that he could understand why Guardiola went to Bayern because the Bundesliga "is the league of the future". I think you rather tend to forget how great the Bundesliga was in the past and assume that just because Ligue 1 was ahead for a few years it has to be the same in the future.

As with Hazard: Yes the guy is amazing and was voted to be best young player of the world by an English newspaper (Neymar was 2nd and Goetze 3rd) but he is neither French nor does he play in the Ligue 1 anymore. He is just another example for young players who immediately take the chance to leave France once they got the opportunity to play in the EPL.

Author: Malko
Date: 30-01-2013, 15:21

Zarastro? Guardiola to PSG ' Did they want him? They have i think someone equal, and if ancelotti should be replaced, i think it'srather by Mourinho than by Guardiola. Okay, bayern will challange for CL, but won't get it. I even doubt if they got into a final in the next years.

Goetze and Reus? Would they be consisten in Arsenal. That's another challange than the Bundesliga!
Titles? what title Goetze got more than Giroud?
Now tell me, what a mediocre team in England is? Arsenal? They would challenge for the title in germany.....Newcastle? Mediocre?
...against teams like real madrid? In GS...wait until the KO-stage......

Concerning the french national team, maybe you are right and i exagerated. i forgot they still have to align Ribery....so maybe it's not so strong as i said.

Proofs why Bundesliga will decline? how can you have a proof for the future? it's an impression.....

about leaving, i just read that a very talented Schalkeèlayer also left for England now.....for a mediocre team as you would say. and they got Bastos instad who was finished in Lyon.

Author: Nixda
Date: 30-01-2013, 17:03

@Malko

another stupid idea to question the titles (international and top tier level):

Mario Götze:

Honours

Club
Borussia Dortmund
Bundesliga (2): 2010–11, 2011–12
DFB-Pokal (1): 2011–12

Germany
UEFA European Under-17 Football Championship (1): 2009

Individual
Fritz Walter Medal 2009 in Gold (Category U17)
Fritz Walter Medal 2010 in Gold (Category U18)
Member of the kicker team of the year (German Bundesliga season 2010–11)
Golden Boy Award: 2011

Olivier Giroud:

Club
Montpellier
Ligue 1 (1): 2011–12

Individual
UNFP Ligue 1 Team of the Year (1): 2011–12
Ligue 1 Top Goalscorer (1): 2011–12

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: spoonman Date: 30-01-2013, 18:37	Where's the sense in comparing a 26-year-old (Giroud) with a 20-year-old (Götze)?

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Tirion Date: 30-01-2013, 18:51	Where is the sense in talking to Malko?

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 30-01-2013, 21:14 Edited by: Lorric at: 30-01-2013, 21:28	Ha ha ha! Yes, Tirion! Yes! Truer words have never been spoken!

Author: Zarastro
Date: 30-01-2013, 22:31
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 30-01-2013, 22:35

"I even doubt if they got into a final in the next years."

You said the same thing 2 years ago. You are entitled to your opinion, I believe the same regarding PSG.

" Arsenal? They would challenge for the title in "

They'd be the second best team in Ligue 1, no doubt about it but I see them behind Bayern and Dortmund in the Bundesliga. They are good, but might drop out of the Top 4 in England this season and their performance against Schalke was less than impressive.

"Newcastle? Mediocre?"

Newcastle is on place 15 right now, only 4 points ahead of the relagation zone. They managed to thrash Bordeaux (I'm quoting Wikipedia) but well considering the average strengh of French teams, that is not really impressive. Gladbach managed to beat Marseille after all when they were in a similar condition. Arsenal is no average team too but you see the difference between Ligue 1 and Bundesliga. Dortmund's best player left for ManU, Montpellier's Giroud went to Arsenal. The best French player of the season was only good enough for the 4th or 5th best team in England.

"Proofs why Bundesliga will decline? how can you have a proof for the future? it's an impression...." Yes but your impressions seems to be always wrong it is rather wishful thinking in your case. You just say what you hope will happen, without giving us any reason why it should happen, your presumption is just as ridiculous as if I said that Dortmund will win the CL 5 times in a row from now on.

"bout leaving, i just read that a very talented Schalkeèlayer also left for England now.....for a mediocre team as you would say."

Tottenham finished 4th last season and look like they could finish among top 4 this season too. They are in the same position as Schalke (they are actually in a better situation) and Holtby's father comes from England. His departure is regrettable, but Tottenham is certainly no mediocre team.

"i forgot they still have to align Ribery....so maybe it's not so strong as i said." Ribery is widely considered to be one of the best players on his position. You should be proud of him. But I forget, Bayern must not have any good players, even if they are French.

"..against teams like real madrid? In GS...wait until the KO-stage......"

Yes the GS is so easy... . And Real had no reason to top their group and thus avoid ManU. But tell me if it is so easy to beat good opponents in GS, why did Lille get trashed by Bayern and why did Montpellier lose against Arsenal? Mourinho was already under pressure back then, he surely wanted to win in order to calm down the fans.

Author: Malko
Date: 30-01-2013, 22:47
Edited by: Malko
at: 30-01-2013, 22:53

"Fritz Walter Medal 2009 in Gold (Category U17)
Fritz Walter Medal 2010 in Gold (Category U18)"

now, this becomes ridiculous...and the Mickey-Mouse price???

zarastro: "You said the same thing 2 years ago." ...and thers said that 2011/12 Bayern would win the CL...

"They managed to thrash Bordeaux (I'm quoting Wikipedia) " ...but the reality is quite quite different !

when Dortmund wins in the GS, it's jhust hreat for you, but when Bordeaux trashes Bayern in the GS, it's of none importance......

BTW, i see arsenal a lot before Dortmund. Dortmund is quite overrated because of this GS.

Yes, Montpellier lost vs Arsenal but showed in the direct confrontations that it's a team which can play on the same level with a Schalke. okay, Schalke has to take the players Lyon doesn't need and want anymore.....

Author: Zarastro
Date: 30-01-2013, 23:02
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 31-01-2013, 02:33

"when Dortmund wins in the GS, it's jhust hreat for you, but when Bordeaux trashes Bayern in the GS, it's of none importance......"

I didn't know that Bordeaux played Bayern this year.

"but the reality is quite quite different " The realiy is always different to you if Germany and/or France are concerned.

"BTW, i see arsenal a lot before Dortmund. Dortmund is quite overrated because of this GS." Sure but I am not impressed by Arsenal this season either. And this has nothing to do with Ligue 1's lack of strengh either. You also favoured Ajax towards Dortmund... .

"" ...and thers said that 2011/12 Bayern would win the CL..." I didn't say that. I just expected them to win the CL after they defeated Real and that was what most people expected. And yes you were right that Bayern wouldn't win it... after you predicted that they would get knocked out in the quarter and then later semi-final. But hey, one out three, that must be a record for you.

"Yes, Montpellier lost vs Arsenal but showed in the direct confrontations that it's a team which can play on the same level with a Schalke." They got lucky to equalize in the last minute in the first game and the second game was meaningless anyway. They proved they were not on the level as the Greece champion, thats all.

"now, this becomes ridiculous...and the Mickey-Mouse price???" These medals just illustrate how much he has developed as a player. They are not important, but still significant. They are not as important as the many trophies he will win later but still... .

Author: Malko
Date: 31-01-2013, 10:20

Zarastro, this year were some very surprising results, not only concerning french and german teams, but also......some results which are probably really the exception. Or do you think regularly Moenchengladbsch would draw with Marseille? or Lille getting 6 goals in Munich? Or Bayern draw in Bielorussia ?

Let's say, Bayern vs Chelsea, i think everybody wanted Cheslea to win after the" überheblichen Einstellung" Bayern made around that game : Giving the feeling that they could not lose it. *Finale dahoam.....", na ja, Niderloage dahoom was a real balloon of oxgene. Maybe those who do not understand german did not get this.....

In the first game in schalke, Montpellier really deserved to equalize, and even morally, when you know what was happening before......(wieder diese Ueberheblichkeit). They treated Montplellier as a "little club", or they are as little. The equalization was the benefit of the frustration of Montpellier and totally deserved.

about the medals....its only local. Nationally counts titles: and Giroud was Champion, and Goetze also. Okay, this player is much better than average, even very good. But not better than others elsewhere......
which many trophies will he win? when he stays in Dortmund? Not much, cause Bayern is better in germany and internationally, he won't with Dortmund and probably not with Germany either.

Author: Nixda
Date: 31-01-2013, 10:24

@Malko

ridiculos is the correct category for your postings.

I only quoted the honors listed on the english wikipedia. It seems they rate these as notable individual titles. But you seem to ingore the non individual titles:

2 german championships, 1 german cup and 1 U17 EURO-champions title

vs

1 french championship

very balanced for comparing a 20 year old player to a 26 year old player. Lets see Götze list at 26.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Nixda Date: 31-01-2013, 10:27	abotu the "Finale dahoim" tell one club (to make it easier i will not insist on a top10 club) that hasnt the target to play in the final of the UEFA CL when the final is played in their own stadium?

Author: Malko
Date: 31-01-2013, 16:20

Nixda, concerning this final home, it's not the fact that they played it at home (which i find very bad, the stadium should be designend when the half-finalists are known, and in a neutral country), but the "hype" they made about it. Nobody seemed to consider the possibility to lose that game......but Drogba.
PS: i was in Munich the day before........in the Olympiastadium Lyon won vs Potsdam the women-CL :-)

Author: Zarastro
Date: 31-01-2013, 16:48
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 31-01-2013, 16:49

"Let's say, Bayern vs Chelsea, i think everybody wanted Cheslea to win after the" überheblichen Einstellung" Bayern made around that game".

Bayern just reacted as any top team would have. When asked what is the aim of Real this season, Mourinho said winning the CL. PSG who are still way below Bayern in terms of history and class of player said they want to win the CL this year. But yeah it is totally arrogant when Bayern wants to win at home. You are showing "Ueberheblichkeit" when you say that PSG will win the CL until 2015 considering the challenges they will have to overcome (FFP, improving competition in Spain and Germany et all.). Or when you say that the Bundesliga will decline soon without giving any reason. Or when you say that Lille would get 6 points against Bayern.

According to polls in Spain most people wanted Bayern to win because they were seen as a worthy finalist. When asked which foreign team they respected most they answered Germany and Bayern Munich respectively.

"they treated Montplellier as a "little club", or they are as little". Montpellier is a little club with a very small budget and no international pedigree, they are a dwarf compared to Schalke. Schalke's aim was to advance out of the group and in doing so they needed to triumph over Arsenal or Montpellier and Montpellier was seen as the safer bet. As you gleefully said last year concerning Dortmund, domestic titles don't count internationally.

"wieder diese Ueberheblichkeit)" The only shameful behaviour came from the coach of Montpellier as many french newspapers pointed out.

"when he stays in Dortmund?" As any Dortmund fan, I know deep down that he will one day leave us for Barca, Real, ManU or Bayern, it is only naturaly for a player with his potential.

"Nobody seemed to consider the possibility to lose that game...." You doknow that Chelsea's win was one of the biggest upsets in the history of the CL and that most English newspapers expected Bayern to win? It was not that Bayern expected against all reasons to win, most people thought the same.

"which i find very bad, the stadium should be designend when the half-finalists are known, and in a neutral country), "

Because that way France would almost always get to host the final? Nice try.

Author: Malko
Date: 31-01-2013, 16:51
Edited by: Malko
at: 31-01-2013, 16:54

"PSG who are still way below Bayern in terms of history and class of player " history yes, class of player NO WAY ! and now, you add David Beckham.

"they are a dwarf compared to Schalke." ?????????????? wow, how much international trophies Schalke got....Schalke is for longer time in Bundesliga then Montpellier in Ligue 1, but that's all.....I do not know if they were engaged in the same championship Schalke would end before Montpellier at all.....

"Barca, Real, ManU or Bayern, it is only naturaly for a player with his potential." ...ôr Paris SG ? if he is as good as you think.......

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 31-01-2013, 16:53 Edited by: Lorric at: 31-01-2013, 17:14	Malko, you beat me to it by seconds. Beckham link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21276595 If they use him right, he will not let them down I predict. I would just love it if he was able to play his way back into the England squad. EDIT: And they should do, since their manager is the man who loaned Beckham in at Milan and enjoyed a successful return on that investment.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 31-01-2013, 17:14	Dont' you think its more a marketting action? he costs 200 000 a week, but will bring a lot more, and make Paris SG more popular all over the world? Cause Beckham is football player and people.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 31-01-2013, 17:15 Edited by: Lorric at: 31-01-2013, 17:15	Beckham feeding balls to that 6ft 5 monster Ibrahimovic is a recipe for goals. Trust me, I've been keeping an eye on Beckham in MLS. He's still got it.

Author: cinebelu
Date: 31-01-2013, 17:22
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 31-01-2013, 17:24

yes, Monpellier are a dwarf compared to Schalke!
1 Schalke 12p
....
4 Montpellier 2p

these are the facts, no matter how you try to manipulate them and put it in a different light.

and PSG is a dwarf compared to Bayern, no matter which wet dreams you have.
facts, no wishfull thinking!

David Beckham is coming to PSG? hahahahahahaha
is there the meeting for the overrated old horses of football?
Ibrahimovic, now Beckham, Im already impatient to see their asses kicked out of CL by Valencia :twisted:

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 31-01-2013, 17:24 Edited by: Lorric at: 31-01-2013, 17:27	Ryan Giggs - 39 Paul Scholes - 38 David Beckham - 37 EDIT: He he. Manchester United connection. Didn't even think of that until after I posted. EDIT 2: All midfielders too.

Author: cinebelu
Date: 31-01-2013, 17:34
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 31-01-2013, 17:42

"Beckham feeding balls to that 6ft 5 monster Ibrahimovic is a recipe for goals."

probably against crap like Tulouse, Ajaccio and Rennes, etc, but not at CL level. and which future has this club signing old players? I see there already the consequences of that management did by people who have no idea about football. the arabs want to see big names but have no long term concept. they will waste a lot of money and win no trophy

I think for good paying they could bring Roberto Carlos, Rivaldo and Romario as well, even if only for 2-3 games

what about Kluivert, Cantona or....Paul Gascoigne??

I think malko would say: the best team in world ever :D

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 31-01-2013, 17:41	Ha. Well, we'll just have to wait and see who's right. Hopefully he'll take to the pitch soon. But a club that's drowning in money doesn't need to bring in players for marketing purposes.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: cinebelu Date: 31-01-2013, 17:51	they bring them because they want to see them playing in their team and think (like stupid malko too) they would be very good because of their names...its like doing your team at PS, childish arabs know only the big names and take only these in their team like I said, Im already impatient to see them at their big fail

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 31-01-2013, 17:56	I too have felt a bit critical about this type of thing. Filling your team with "names" and egos is a recipe for trouble. Beckham won't cause any such problems though. Regardless of whether he was signed for his name or his footballing ability.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: vavact2 Date: 31-01-2013, 18:14	Come on, Beckham was washed-up five years ago. He has nothing to add to this team.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: cinebelu Date: 31-01-2013, 18:14 Edited by: cinebelu at: 31-01-2013, 18:15	"Filling your team with "names" and egos is a recipe for trouble" its not the possible trouble they could cause, they simply arent at top level anymore. I could bet when Messi's time will be over and not more good enough for the top teams, ManCity or PSG will be very interested in geting him

Author: Lorric
Date: 31-01-2013, 18:43

Well, a team like PSG can't attract the absolute best, same with Manchester City. Because the absolute best are already settled in at top clubs on top wages. They have to get the next best thing, and hope to create an environment where they can attract the best in future. Or create the best for themselves. Manchester City are investing heavilly in youth facilities.

And Beckham, I'm not expecting him to set the World aflame or anything, but I think he'll be a useful component of the team.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: UploaderAfonso Date: 31-01-2013, 19:17 Edited by: UploaderAfonso at: 31-01-2013, 19:17	Looks like every topic that has Malko in it goes off-topic...

Author: Malko
Date: 31-01-2013, 22:32

Lorric, the very best are in 2 other clubs : Barcelona and Real Madrid. The players of PSg can be compared to the players of any other club in the world....
Concerning Beckham, you seem to be better informed than the jalous people who will never in the world see such a player in a Bundesliga for example.
OI jhust hope he will throw out some german teams of the CL, Dortmund in the quarterfinal and bayern in the semi-final, why not...and then vs Manchester United in the final.
Manchester United- Paris SG would be the "Traumfinale" this year. The two giants meeting in the final

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Philipp Date: 31-01-2013, 22:43 Edited by: Philipp at: 31-01-2013, 22:43	I would be surprised if PSG can pass Valencia.

Author: Zarastro
Date: 31-01-2013, 23:07
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 31-01-2013, 23:17

You really don't know how painful it is to never have a player like Beckham in the Bundesliga, we'll have to settle with Guardiola. Well except for Raul of course.

""they are a dwarf compared to Schalke." ?????????????? wow, how much international trophies Schalke got...."

Schalke won the Uefa cup 1997. Which French club except Lyon has won more?

" history yes, class of player NO WAY ! " PSG has a good defense and with Ibrahimovic a deadly attacker, but there midfield is nothing compared to Bayern. The difference here is not even funny. Schweinsteiger, Ribery and Robben are all vastly superior to their counterparts of PSG no doubt about it.

"ôr Paris SG ? if he is as good as you think......." PSG has nothing to offer except money and Goetze will certainly attract the interest of the best clubs one day.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 31-01-2013, 23:14 Edited by: Lorric at: 31-01-2013, 23:15	Oh, don't worry. There's still time. He's done 4 of the big 5. Maybe your turn is coming later, ha ha Now there's a thought. I wonder if any/how many players have played their football in all 5 of the traditional big 5 leagues in their career? Manchester United Real Madrid AC Milan PSG ??? Bundesliga?

Author: cinebelu
Date: 01-02-2013, 00:31
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 01-02-2013, 00:34

" jalous people who will never in the world see such a player in a Bundesliga for example.
OI jhust hope he will throw out some german teams of the CL, Dortmund in the quarterfinal and bayern in the semi-final, why not.."

hahahahahhaaa, trollko getting a little furious because people dont agree with him about old and expired horse, Beckham
and...starting to get weird ideas, even crazier than in the past

"Manchester United- Paris SG would be the "Traumfinale" this year. The two giants meeting in the final"

dream little boy so long you can, because the reality is harsh to you and brings you back on earth by every opportunity (Lille, Montpellier, Marseille just some examples last autumn). you have only 2 or 3 weeks to dream, so use this time before you'll get the next electrical short

Author: Malko
Date: 01-02-2013, 07:14

Zarastro, Lyon didn't win any Europacup.....

Schalke won a UEFA-Cup some 15 years ago, and so anyone other is a dwarf ' Well Montpellier won a championship last year, schalke never did....

Sorry about Ribery. He isn't superior to any PSG player.

PSG will have to offer much more than money......
In Bundesliga, there is no other "giant" than Bayern...and in a list, we could speak maybe of Dortmund for future...but we cannot speak about it when we speak about where Goetze will go....

Guardiola ??? will he score much goals?
He is one of the 6 best coaches in the world, but ancelotti also is...

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: vavact2 Date: 01-02-2013, 08:51	Malko wrote: Guardiola ??? will he score much goals? About the same as Beckham.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Nixda Date: 01-02-2013, 08:59 Edited by: Nixda at: 01-02-2013, 09:01	@Malko just stop your brainless comments on historic facts. Schalke has won 7 German Championships. They just have not won a Bundesliga title as that was started 63/64 and Schalkes last title was 58.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Rienk Date: 01-02-2013, 10:16	@ Malko Players in the Bundesliga better than beckham: Complete Bayern 11 Complete Dortmund 11 Complete schalke 11 Complete leverkusen 11 A lot of other players.

Author: nemesys
Date: 01-02-2013, 11:08

@cinebelu
probably against crap like Tulouse, Ajaccio and Rennes, etc, but not at CL level.

I disagree. Getting older you lose the capacity to play 90 minutes every 3 days for a whole season (championship + all the rest), or the capacity to play 90 minutes for 7 matches condensed in a period of 3-4 weeks in the summer (WC), but not to play good for 1 hour every 2 weeks (CL KOs): the talent still there, as the tactical intelligence, and even the reactivity doesn't fade too much (we are talking a bit past 35yo here, not over 70yo); is the physical resistance that fades considerably!

If the staff menages him well, with his skill and experience, he could be decisive for PSG in CL KOs way more than in the French championship. See last AC Milan victory team age average. By the way, in a pretty young and inexperienced team, an experienced, talented and charismatic element is even more valuable.

Even if for only an half time, a single free kick, an assist, a smart pass, a good positioning in a difficult part of the game, slowing down the pace of the match at the correct time, taking the task to talk to the referee instead of a young teammate a bit more nervous... it depends on how much will Beckham has to still play football, and the attitude he will have towards the PSG project; but when he went to AC Milan, no matter people doubts, he definitely added something positive. He is a bit older now, we'll see.

But again, if he has something to give to PSG, IMO it will be more likely a peak performance in few single CL matches, than a reliable average contribution in every championship match.

Just my 2 cents.

@Rienk
Players in the Bundesliga better than beckham:

You are kidding, right?

Cheers.

- nemesys

Author: cinebelu
Date: 01-02-2013, 16:17
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 01-02-2013, 16:19

@nemesys
it was about that:

"Beckham feeding balls to that 6ft 5 monster Ibrahimovic is a recipe for goals." Lorric

as the top clubs would be so naive and unexperienced to be surprised by that recipe. the same about his free kicks and smart passes, which were wellknown by everybody before he left Europe. additionally, dont forget he played 4-5 yrs in a ch'ship below every top league of Europe.
NO, Beckham wont scare anybody in CL. he is an old horse with big name, only good to change the shirt with him at end of the game

Author: Malko
Date: 01-02-2013, 16:21

7 titles before Bundesliga...? Well, makes it a giant vs Montpellier......

Rienk....LOL....

nemesys and cinebelu......what Beckham gives PSg in the matches is complete bonus. He gives charisma to PSG. He makes people look at PSG, people who would not do that before.....
.....he is the most mediatic football player in the world.
google Beckham, Messi, Ronaldo, and look at the number of hits........
Now, concerning his football, give him a chance......

Author: Malko
Date: 01-02-2013, 16:23

this reminds me at golden ages, when english stars playedin the Ligue 1.
Most popular wer Chris waddle and Glenn Hoddle in the newer times, i think. We have now Barton in Marseille, Cole in Lille ,(well not to compare with Hoddle and Waddle)and Beckham in Paris.
Until now, for me Chris Waddle was the best, to Beckham to show me he will be better.......
BTW, Waddle won 1 Championsleague in France.......

Author: cinebelu
Date: 01-02-2013, 16:39

hmmmm, I searched for the game Real-Milan 2-3 from 2009/10
Beckham wasnt even on substitutes list, so no contribution at the only big game they had in CL that season (2-1 at home vs OM isnt to mention, that can do everybody).
http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/chleague/spielrunde/champions-league/2009-10
/3/988059/spielschema_real-madrid_ac-mailand.html

(Ko-stage: 2-3 and 0-4 against ManU)

in domestic, Milan finished 3rd, 12p and 10p behind Inter and Roma.
like I said, Siena, Bari, Chievo, Livorno, etc have been probably very impressed to play against Beckham. Now it will be Bastia, Ajaccio, Valenciennes, etc

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: cinebelu Date: 01-02-2013, 16:57	"google Beckham, Messi, Ronaldo, and look at the number of hits........" that sure will help him to win the games "Now concerning his football, give him a chance......" we would give him every chance he needs, but I fear the opponents on field wont dream, Trollko, dream...

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 01-02-2013, 18:28	cinebelu, Beckjham knows he will play now in one of the most difficult championships in Europe. It would have been esier in Belgium,Holland or Germany, thats true.

Author: Lorric
Date: 01-02-2013, 20:46
Edited by: Lorric
at: 01-02-2013, 20:51

I decided to put "Beckham Milan" into Youtube, and this was the first thing I got:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu8Okf0q9xU

It's perfect. Not because it makes him look like a God, but because it's one of those videos where it shows everything he did in a match (Lazio away), and not just the good parts. Washed up 5 years ago? I don't think so.

Oh, and Cinebelu, Beckham played (at least according to wikipedia) 29 times for Milan in two short loan spells, one of which was cut off by the injury that took him out of the World Cup. He was a first team player at Milan.

Author: cinebelu
Date: 01-02-2013, 20:54
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 01-02-2013, 20:55

dream, trollko, dream ...

you still have about 10 days left to dream untill there will be a shocker for you at Mestalla and (hopefully) game over for PSG after 1st leg

"But a club that's drowning in money doesn't need to bring in players for marketing purposes." Lorric

"what Beckham gives PSg in the matches is complete bonus. He gives charisma to PSG. He makes people look at PSG, people who would not do that before.....
.....he is the most mediatic football player in the world." Trollko

PSG-lovers, pls get consensus

"By the way, in a pretty young and inexperienced team, an experienced, talented and charismatic element is even more valuable."
"taking the task to talk to the referee instead of a young teammate a bit more nervous..." nemesys

PSG has by far the oldest squad in Ligue1

http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/ligue-1/startseite/wettbewerb_FR1.html

Author: cinebelu
Date: 01-02-2013, 21:09

Lorric, Lazio finished 12th in that season (2009/10)
we talk here about CL level... pls find the games he played for Milan in CL. otherwise...Siena, Cagliari, Livorno...you can dream with Trolllko Beckham would be a God

no matter he was a 1st team player, Milan wasnt top in Europe
Beckham is 3yrs older now and he comes from a Liga far below the top ones from Europe...so even worse than that washed up Becks from 3 yrs ago

Author: Lorric
Date: 01-02-2013, 21:35
Edited by: Lorric
at: 01-02-2013, 21:37

We'll see.

He doesn't have to be top. He just has to be worthy of a place on the team. Then he's there for footballing reasons, that's all he needs and I'm saying I think he'll manage that, that he's still got what it takes.

You want CL? He did play vs his old club Manchester United for Milan in the CL in his second loan spell. And *gasp* he gets an assist and plays well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-W3419tuLY

Though I know you'll tell me it was a fluke, but it's not his problem if the defender doesn't deal with it. Bottom line, he played well.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 01-02-2013, 21:52	I just checked the scoring chart for Ligue 1. Ibra is WAY out in front with 19 goals. That's without Beckham servicing him. How will he do with Beckham servicing him? The other teams will already know to watch out for Ibra, his closest rival has 12 goals. They can't stop him anyway. Beckham will just make him more lethal than ever.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 01-02-2013, 22:55	20, he scored tonight once while PSG won 4-0 in toulouse....

Author: cinebelu
Date: 01-02-2013, 23:49
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 01-02-2013, 23:50

Lorric, you seem not to read my arguments or not to understand them

Milan 2009/10 had 2 wins (that great 3-2 at RealM - wihtout Becks and 2-1 vs OM), 3 draws and 1 defeat, then they were smashed by ManU (2-3 and 0-4) in the 1st KO-round. Beckham couldnt make Milan better and I doubt they had reached less without him. So, with Becks or without him, it was the same for Milan

Now, he's older, played 3yrs MLS and you hope he will do miracles with PSG. He didnt play against any strong team in that time and you see how fast things are changing in Europe's football.

as I said, you can dream with malko, 12 days left till Mestalla
I fear Becks wont be able to accomodate so fast, Ancelotti wont even field him.

"20, he scored tonight once while PSG won 4-0 in toulouse...." Trollko

nothing special. in that crapy Ligue1 everybody can score a lot, even an expired Ibra

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 02-02-2013, 06:45 Edited by: Lorric at: 02-02-2013, 06:47	Beckham was highly praised by the Milan players. He would not have taken a place in the first team if he didn't make the team better. EDIT: Oh wait, now you're saying Ibra is washed up too? I really don't like the man, but he's still a lethal striker. He chokes on the big stage every single time, but he's great for grinding out domestic points against lesser sides.

Author: nemesys
Date: 02-02-2013, 09:33
Edited by: nemesys
at: 02-02-2013, 09:50

@cinebelu

PSG has by far the oldest squad in Ligue1

32 Douchez, Nicolas (not regular)
38 Le Crom, Ronan (not regular)
26 Sirigu, Salvatore (regular)

Reasonable 11:

26.0 Sirigu
---
24.0 van der Wiel
28.0 Thiago Silva
30.0 Alex
31.0 Maxwell
---
20.0 Lucas
20.0 Verratti
23.0 Pastore (or 25 Matuidi)
---
31.0 Ibra
25.0 Menez
27.0 Lavezzi
===
25.9 (or 26.1)

Way younger than your 28.1. It still not so extremely young all together? Ok. But look at the midfield, where Beckham should play: he could be an alternative to Verratti (20), Lucas (20), Pastore (23)...

Now, about the rest you said, please, I'm not saying Beckham will be a regular, actually I said the exact opposite: if they menage him well, he should not!

And I'm not saying Beckham will surely do well, I just said that it is more likely to me him doing few good matches (maybe even starting from the bench) apart from each other, rather than many appearances one after the other.

That's all I meant.

And I just said that in a CL Ko scenario, being PSG, I want to have a Beckham available on the squad rather than not. Do you remember Mehmet Scholl at the end of his career? Pippo Inzaghi? Jari Litmanen?

Those players can be extremely useful even when at the end of the career are physically not at their peak, if they are managed well and they still have the will to play, as well as the intelligence to play when they are asked to, and sit on the bench without causing troubles if asked to.

Let say a scenario like Valencia - Psg 0-1 after 65', and Pastore with a yellow card starting to get a bit tired: IMHO you better have an alternative as Beckham in the bench rather than not. That's all.

And about AC Milan: the guy surprised everybody. They were waiting for someone there just for marketing purposes, but the Italian fans discovered a real football player. Far away from the irritating end career of Rivaldo, for example.

This was few seasons ago, and he played in MLS since then you said, and that's correct. We don't know what he is today. Maybe you know better and he is not an European football level player anymore. But only the pitch, if he will be called to play, will tell.

even an expired Ibra

Here you are kidding right?

Just contrasting Malko silliness (Robben is expired) with some bigger silliness I guess.

The fact which it is true, it is that the guy in CL KOs has the weird strong tendency to disappear. I remember only a Barca-Arsenal in recent seasons CL KOs with Ibra in the main protagonists, other than that, he was always disappointing in his most important CL clashes. We'll see if this will be confirmed this season.

As always, about everything you read in this post: just my two cents. I can be wrong.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Edit: formatting and minor corrections.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 02-02-2013, 10:22 Edited by: Malko at: 02-02-2013, 10:46	cinebelul, well, it seems to be even more easier to score in the Bundesliga than in the Ligue 1, cause there are more goals. But yes, this one is even creapier....we know that. Seriously, the Ligue 1 is maybe with the Italian league the one where scoring is most difficult in the world.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Rienk Date: 02-02-2013, 12:08	I agree Beckham is long over his top but ibra is still top 20 players in the world and by far the best player in the french league.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 02-02-2013, 13:05	Rienk, Ibra is more than top20. he is top4

Author: AlanK
Date: 02-02-2013, 14:34

@Malko:

Ibra would not even be in the top four should he return to Barça (and they won't have him because he was a disruptive influence when he was there before--it all has to be about him, and that wasn't acceptable to Pep).

Barça players currently above Ibra with regard to overall value to team: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Alba, Piqué, Cesc (no order is implied here); possibly in the longer run Villa, Pedro, Alexis

We could do the same with Real; suffice it to name CR7, Ramos, Marcelo, Ozil, Casillas . . .

And Atleti: Falcao

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 02-02-2013, 14:49	AlanK, I jhust do not agree.......I see Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic in this order....

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: AlanK Date: 02-02-2013, 15:18	@Malko: Of course you don't agree. So let's just look at forwards: Messi, CR7, Falcao, Van Persie, Cavani . . . So as not to belabor the point, I'll leave it there.

Author: nemesys
Date: 02-02-2013, 15:22

@AlanK

Ibra would not even be in the top four should he return to Barça

Of course!

# Ibrahimovic Inter main offensive strategy:
1. Long-Ball to Ibra;
2a. Goal;
2b. Assist -> Goal.

# Ibrahimovic AC Milan main offensive strategy:
1. Long-Ball to Ibra;
2a. Goal;
2b. Assist -> Goal.

# Ibrahimovic Barca main offensive strategy:
Play the tiki-taka Barcelona way. And Messi is a better player anyways.

The guy needs a team playing for him. So, well, it just couldn't work.

---

Messi and Cristiano are simply another planet. Hors catégorie.

Xavi, Iniesta, Ibra, Falcao, ... are world-top-class players anyone can put in its favorite order, it is just matter of opinions. Besides, the sense of comparing players in different position it is quite debatable IMHO.

---

I'm not a fan of Ibrahimovic attitude as well, and he's not in my favorite players to watch, but we are talking about his football skills and what he offers to his current football team, PSG. Maybe I misunderstood your post, because I do honestly believe:

- Zlatan is important for PSG way more than Jordi Alba is for Barca;

- Zlatan is the kind of player can make the difference way more than Jordi Alba.
Of course, so far, this is true more in championships (he won everywhere he played: Ajax, Juventus, Inter, Barca, Milan, and, IIRC, PSG is leading L1 today with about 2/3 of the goals scored by him) than in CL, where he always failed conquering the title.

Then, if we want to discuss the fact that his attitude towards its clubs and teammates it is at least arguable, or that when he is on the pitch he kind of force its club a specific way to play football, then this is another subject, and yes, this can be a limit about having Ibrahimovic in the squad.

---

Well, just my two cents.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 02-02-2013, 17:26	nemesys, maybe for Ibra, this time it's the right club to win also the CL.

Author: cinebelu
Date: 02-02-2013, 18:13
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 02-02-2013, 18:15

nemesys:
The fact which it is true, it is that the guy in CL KOs has the weird strong tendency to disappear. I remember only a Barca-Arsenal in recent seasons CL KOs with Ibra in the main protagonists, other than that, he was always disappointing in his most important CL clashes.

totally agree. that was always Ibra. everywhere he played (Swe NT too), he totally failed in the crucial games. he scored a lot, but mostly uneccessary, in games without pressure. as he had to score, because his team had to qualify and it depended of 1 goal, he wasnt there or he missed like a dilettante. now he is over 30, therefore "expired" . this player was never top, only average striker

28.1 isnt from me, its from transfermarkt.

Lorric, forget it about Beckham. I have to repeat myself:
1 big game (3-2 @Real), Becks not involved. He didnt help Milan in that season!
Being smashed by ManU 1st KoRnd and finishing 3rd in the domestic, 10p and 12p behind 2nd and 1st is average. Milan would have reached that even without Beckham

"But yes, this one is even creapier....we know that" Trollko

errata: "....I imagine that"

"Ibra is more than top20. he is top4" Trollko

Ibra is subtop10

no need to quarrel like children, 10 days left till Mestalla and a lot of questions will be answered on field

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 02-02-2013, 18:51 Edited by: Malko at: 02-02-2013, 18:53	about the giant Schalke : Schalke 1 - 2 Greuther Furth LOL...in Ligue1, there are even no so weak teams like Greuther Fuerth..... about Valencia, the decision will come in Paris.

Author: Zarastro
Date: 02-02-2013, 19:48
Edited by: Zarastro
at: 02-02-2013, 19:51

"about the giant Schalke : Schalke 1 - 2 Greuther Furth"

Just another proof for the high quality and competive nature in the Bundesliga. In the Bundesliga, even the weakest team can still pose a serious threat to a CL 1/8-finalist. Knowing the standards of Ligue 1, Fürth would certainly be above the relegation zone in France, that's for sure... .

"LOL...in Ligue1, there are even no so weak teams like Greuther Fuerth....."

True you send giants like Lille to play in the CL... . How did this turn out again against Bayern?

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 02-02-2013, 20:26 Edited by: Lorric at: 02-02-2013, 20:27	@ Cinebelu Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just keep fixating on that match and ignore the contribution he made to their league campaign. They were struggling, and he came in and helped steady the ship, and earned a recall to the team the year after. I would also say his last two seasons in MLS were his strongest.

Author: nemesys
Date: 02-02-2013, 20:39

@cinebelu

this player was never top, only average striker

As I already said, I don't really like the guy, and I'm not really a fan of its type of football. But coaches like Capello and Ancellotti, who really know about football IMHO, don't share your views and (even recognizing his character limits on the pitch in some situations under the pressure) always talk wonders about the guy for his skills and his dedication to work in training.

I believe that if Carletto Ancellotti built up PSG on Ibra, it is because is confident in what the guy has to give, and he consider him the key player in the squad and an international top player, and so far Ibra paid back, watching to the numbers. I believe that, if they will win something together, one can say big thanks to the other.

The last and hardest test will be Ibra performances in CL KOs: will he lead his teammates on the pitch, or sink bringing them down with him and blaming it on them? In past he failed, but as you already said, only Mestalla (and/or future CL KOs matches) can say about this campaign.

By the way, I see a balanced match there in Valencia, my prediction is anywhere from 2:1 / 1:1 / 1:2 ; with my favorite pick 1:1 and an open 2nd leg to be played in Paris, with PSG a little bit favorite.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Author: cinebelu
Date: 02-02-2013, 21:58

and once again, @Lorric, are we talking about domestic or top football in Europe????? if you argue with his free kicks and smart passes, I agree, Beckham has a lot of talent, can be usefull for a team like Milan against opponents like Cagliari, Siena, Livorno, etc. But at CL top level - NO WAY! the results confirm me, they were destroyed by ManU. His time was already over 3 or 5 yrs ago - and he cant help PSG at CL top level in any way. Against Dinamo Zagreb or to win 6-0 instead of 4-0 vs Toulouse, generating 1 or 2 more goals for Ibra - always possible

and the same about Ibrahimovic (@nemesys) - to build up a team on him, in a weak Ligue1

, I dont contradict that. But if we talk about top level in CL - I see a loser, always disappointing Ibra. And if Capello and Ancelotti trusted him, its their mistake - in the crucial games he totally failed. Actually I was impressed about him as he was young and thought he needs time to confirm at top level, but then I realized he cant at that level. He is only an average striker, can score a lot vs little teams but thats all

"will he lead his teammates on the pitch, or sink bringing them down with him and blaming it on them?"

tell me pls when Ibra was able to lead the team successfully in a crucial game. he played a lot of top clubs, had several times this opportunity...

"about the giant Schalke : Schalke 1 - 2 Greuther Furth
LOL...in Ligue1, there are even no so weak teams like Greuther Fuerth....."

even more shamefull for the French champion to finish last (2p) in a group won by this weak Schalke

"about Valencia, the decision will come in Paris."

if Ancelotti will do the mistake and play 4-3-3 (the team nemesys listed), trying to dominate Valencia in their own stadium, I fear he and his PSG will witness a "blaues Wunder"

Author: nemesys
Date: 02-02-2013, 23:08
Edited by: nemesys
at: 02-02-2013, 23:09

@cinebelu
Uhm... ok then. The fact that he won national titles like every season wherever in Europe he went, and the fact that he was the most devastating center forward in Serie A for almost a decade doesn't matter: his coaches were just stupid to play him.

Whatever. You seem focused on your positions, as I said I'm the first one to underline the lack of Ibrahimovic performances in CL KOs clashes, and it's not even a footballer I like: so I rest my case, I won't take this OT discussion any further.

I believe Ancellotti will play a 4-3-3, or if you prefer, 4-3-2-1 "Christmas tree" with Ibrahimovic center forward, like normally for PSG in this season.

And well, Carletto is a guy I like. And I hope and I'm reasonably confident he will get into the 1/4 final. Valencia and Mestalla will be a tough task, but I think the guy knows how to menage it the best.

We'll see. I hope that if PSG will win deservedly in Mestalla playing 4-3-3 (or 4-3-2-1), you will recognize it with fair play.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Edit: misspellings.

Author: cinebelu
Date: 03-02-2013, 00:59
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 03-02-2013, 01:09

nemesys, I see you try for the 2nd time to argue with the competence/knowledge of the coaches...if we start to argue like that, we dont need to discuss/criticize here anything more. the one or other could confirm that he trusted on stats as he brought the one or other player, to be then disappointed or other factors why didnt work with apparently promissing players.. but they arent members of this forum to share their opinions with us, so I think its totally irrelevant what you think about their competence and no argument to undeline the quality of the players they used.
as well, there is no argument for PSG's strenght that you like Carlo Ancelotti and hope/are confident he will get into 1/4 (only your personal impressions)

on the other hand, you agree that Ibrahimovic has lack of performances at KOstage of CL. as that would be to ignore, you argue then with lots of domestic titles he won. but whats top level if not confirming exactly at the stage where the best of the best remains???
thats what I said too, Ibra didnt confirm at highest level, having lots of opportunities to do. he could win 10 Fra ch'ships and score 1000 goals, so long he will fail and fail at KOstage of CL, he cant be accepted as a top player. sorry, I didnt invent that, its how the things are working...

"I believe Ancellotti will play a 4-3-3"

oh, I hope he does that mistake and will be punished harsh
thats why I expect a possible game over for PSG after 1st leg

Author: nemesys
Date: 03-02-2013, 01:41

(also for fantasy league reasons ah ah).

on the other hand, you agree that Ibrahimovic has lack of performances at KOstage of CL. as that would be to ignore, you argue then with lots of domestic titles he won. but whats top level if not confirming exactly at the stage where the best of the best remains???
thats what I said too, Ibra didnt confirm at highest level, having lots of opportunities to do. he could win 10 Fra ch'ships and score 1000 goals, so long he will fail and fail at KOstage of CL, he cant be accepted as a top player. sorry, I didnt invent that, its how the things are working...

You misunderstood here. I was saying that IMHO a coach is not stupid to play him in CL, because of his potential that has been shown in other matches, even if so far in CL KOs he failed. What Ancellotti should do in your opinion to don't be stupid? Play Gameiro at Mestalla?

"I believe Ancellotti will play a 4-3-3"

oh, I hope he does that mistake and will be punished harsh
thats why I expect a possible game over for PSG after 1st leg

So sure of yourself... I predict it is more possible the other way round: 0-2 and game over. But I'm not so sure as you, after Istanbul 2007 I know in football you can never predict anything, we'll see.

Ok, time to bed. Too much time spent on internet watching football, following football, checking results and chatting about football for me today: the reason is of course fantasy league buying week. Ah ah.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Author: cinebelu
Date: 03-02-2013, 02:10
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 03-02-2013, 02:12

so, your arguments are your personal wishes, according also to your fantasy league game?

I dont care what Ancelotti shoud do, and also didnt say he's stupid.
You are the one who came to this conclusion and argue I would have said that.

Fact is, Ibra never confirmed at highest level of CL, having lots of chances, therefore justified not to consider him a top player.

dont confound 4-3-3 with 4-3-2-1!
the latter mean 5 midfield players, the 2 behind the forward being obligated to help him, but they arent really forwards
while at 4-3-3 you have 3 classical forwards and only 3 midfield players. if Ancelotti will play 4-3-3, Im sure he will be punished and game over for PSG, but I think he isnt that stupid to do this mistake

Author: dbaker
Date: 03-02-2013, 03:32

about the giant Schalke : Schalke 1 - 2 Greuther Furth
LOL...in Ligue1, there are even no so weak teams like Greuther Fuerth.....

And yet, if Marseille were to lose to a team near the bottom of Ligue 1, say ... Sochaux? (Oh wait, that already happened.) You'd point that out as a strength of the league ("even the bottom teams can take out a giant"). You can't have it both ways.

...but the reality is quite quite different !

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Author: nemesys
Date: 03-02-2013, 04:18

Well, not so tired after all.

so, your arguments are your personal wishes, according also to your fantasy league game?

That specific sentence was. Yes. And I claimed it to be in the moment I wrote it. So?

Now, not a wish, a consideration based on my humble personal opinion from what I know about football: PSG is a stronger team than Valencia, if Valencia will defeat PSG, honor to Valencia, but IMHO PSG is favorite to reach the 1/4 finals. Your opinion instead?

I dont care what Ancelotti shoud do, and also didnt say he's stupid.
You are the one who came to this conclusion and argue I would have said that.

You are right about not using the word stupid. But the meaning of your conclusion, which by the way I respect: it was a bad choice to build a team on Ibra targeting the CL.

and the same about Ibrahimovic (@nemesys) - to build up a team on him, in a weak Ligue1 , I dont contradict that. But if we talk about top level in CL - I see a loser, always disappointing Ibra. And if Capello and Ancelotti trusted him, its their mistake - in the crucial games he totally failed.

Fact is, Ibra never confirmed at highest level of CL, having lots of chances, therefore justified not to consider him a top player.

Fact is, Germany never won in 7 official matches (WC and EC) against Italy, and it doesn't mean Germany cannot win the next. Fact is Schwaistaiger, Lahm, and such Bayern players always failed achieving a CL, and this doesn't mean they will never win it or they are not top players. Fact is Drogba, Terry, Lampard won the CL title over 30 after missing it many times as way more favorites. Fact is many top players as Roberto Baggio never won anything you consider important (WC, EC and CL; correct?), so what?

By the way: fact is Ibra is a player that I don't like that much, but he is a world class player, not an average Mandzukic (whatever it is spelled). This is common sense. Negating that you are simply silly.

dont confound 4-3-3 with 4-3-2-1!
the latter mean 5 midfield players, the 2 behind the forward being obligated to help him, but they arent really forwards while at 4-3-3 you have 3 classical forwards and only 3 midfield players. if Ancelotti will play 4-3-3, Im sure he will be punished and game over for PSG, but I think he isnt that stupid to do this mistake

Now you are teaching me what I just underlined? You are funny!

You called my list a 4-3-3 and I point out it is actually a 4-3-2-1 with 2 players supporting both Ibra and the midfield. And you do so after I just explained few posts above that with Ibra you play long ball to Ibra with him as the unique forward player.

I let you the last words, feel free to reply what you like, I won't reply. OT closed for me.

Be happy with your fanaticism.

- nemesys

---

I sincerely apologize to Bert, and the member opened this thread with a legitimate question, for contributing driving this discussion into a flaming like OT. Next time won't happen. Sorry.

- nemesys

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 03-02-2013, 11:06	dbaker, Sochaux is far more strong than Fuerth. about playing in valencia, i am sure Ancelotti knows exactly what to do and what not to do......

Author: cinebelu
Date: 03-02-2013, 18:27
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 03-02-2013, 18:30

"I let you the last words, feel free to reply what you like, I won't reply. OT closed for me"
"I sincerely apologize to Bert, and the member opened this thread with a legitimate question, for contributing driving this discussion into a flaming like OT. Next time won't happen. Sorry." nemesys

pffff, and thats exactly the kind of answer to keep the last words for you and try to put in a wrong light the other if he/she answers. you tried it already with the coach's competence-argument, but you didnt know that I had several times to do with that: when somebody starts with the coach-argument, is nothing else as he/she would say: "Stfu! The coach knows better than you what he's doing, so you shouldnt argue against him!" stupid answer when you are at end with your arguments....

and because its your last word and have to be the last, you try to insult (everyone would be silly if doesnt agree with you that Ibra is a wolrd class player) and impute me fanaticism

but how silly is to argue with your pesrsonal wishes or according to the fantasy football game???

"You are right about not using the word stupid. But the meaning of your conclusion, which by the way I respect: it was a bad choice to build a team on Ibra targeting the CL."

doing mistakes is not the same with being stupid
building a team on Ibra doesnt mean Ibra is at top european level
you can build the team on him but reach then CL highest level with other players....

"Fact is, Germany never won in 7 official matches (WC and EC) against Italy, and it doesn't mean Germany cannot win the next. Fact is Schwaistaiger, Lahm, and such Bayern players always failed achieving a CL, and this doesn't mean they will never win it or they are not top players. Fact is Drogba, Terry, Lampard won the CL title over 30 after missing it many times as way more favorites. Fact is many top players as Roberto Baggio never won anything you consider important (WC, EC and CL; correct?), so what?"

the first, with Germany, has nothing to do with that here, its the totally wrong example

The listed Bayern players have proven several times they are at top level, as they played successfully Kostage and managed to pass critical moments, not only once. The same about Chelsea's players - a lot of times before they won CL (no matter if they have won this or not) Roberto Baggio has proven too, he can lead a team in crucial games.

That was the argument - Ibra never did something like that at highest level (not even at Swe NT!!) - therefore its doubtfully to speak about him as a world class player

But if you need that the people agree with you, because you played him at fantasy football, just say that, no problem, we can agree everything with you, for your game...

-----------------------------------------

I apologize to have overlooked that here:

"I believe Ancellotti will play a 4-3-3, or if you prefer, 4-3-2-1 "Christmas tree" with Ibrahimovic center forward, like normally for PSG in this season."

..if that was your explanation about 4-3-3 and 4-3-2-1...
I couldnt find anything else (you told AlanK something about offensive recipe with Ibra at Inter and Milan, but that was another message...)

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: cinebelu Date: 03-02-2013, 18:40 Edited by: cinebelu at: 03-02-2013, 18:42	"dbaker, Sochaux is far more strong than Fuerth. about playing in valencia, i am sure Ancelotti knows exactly what to do and what not to do......" Trollko said yes, we know, Sochaux would win Bundesliga with the youth team and bandaged eyes, and Ancelotti is God

Author: nemesys
Date: 03-02-2013, 19:14

@cinebelu
I apologize to have overlooked that here

It takes a man to admit its mistake.

You are a reasonable person way more that what I thought yesterday.

So I apologize for accusing you of fanaticism. A free offense I should avoid.

About the "silly": it was my opinion about an opinion you expressed, non about you, and even the most intelligent person can have an opinion which sound like silliness to someone else. So, honestly, no offense to you was intended here.

I guess we both agree that we are both free to think whatever we wish about each-other opinion on Ibrahimovic being a world class player or not, and about what it takes to be considered a world class player.

But if you need that the people agree with you, because you played him at fantasy football, just say that, no problem, we can agree everything with you, for your game...

We both agree that Ibrahimovic is 31, and he missed most of the KOs matches he played so far.

We both doubt the trend will be different in this season.

I say that this PSG team, built up on him, it is its last train ({chance).

You say (if I understood you correctly) the last train ({chance) is already gone.

Ok, I respect your point of view, and your right to express it.

Ah... I have few PSG players, but not Ibra in my fantasy team: you know, as I said, I doubt him in CL KOs.

For respect to all the others, I'd like to close this "Pandora's box" off-topic parentesis I had the fault to open as soon as possible.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Author: cinebelu
Date: 03-02-2013, 21:23

I said he had already lots of chaces to prove it and never did it. I followed him last decade at NT of Swe (there are players who never confirm at their club but always top at NT and vice versa), but the same result there: as Sweden was Ko-stage at final tournaments and needed a leader to come further, Ibra was inexistent, he totally failed.

But you are right, lets close this "pandora-box". For me he will never be a top player, even if he will win CL with PSG, other people would see there the confirmation he is (was always) a world class player.

What irritated me and the reason to start this useless contradiction here, is the conviction of Malko and Lorric, Ibrahimovic would be one of the best and therefore PSG a top club, already compared with Bayern, RealM, ManU, etc, but having no results (neither PSG, nor Ibra)

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Lorric Date: 03-02-2013, 21:24	I have only been defending Beckham, nothing else. I loved watching Ibra implode against England at Euro 2012.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: nemesys Date: 03-02-2013, 22:14	@cinebelu Thank You. Appreciated. Cheers! - nemesys

Author: walter-wade
Date: 07-02-2013, 05:30

guys,in the first 5 days of opening this topic, i noticed even no 1 message had been posted,so i abandoned to follow.yesterday,i controled the page and i noticed 100 messages

it is very interesting...but i observed that people understood the question in the opposite way.i wanted to ask what the countries spend much money but can't get the success?People said germany..germany is at 3th place in coefficient ranking.i wish to every country such an unsuccesfull position sucs as germany

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: vavact2 Date: 07-02-2013, 10:34 Edited by: vavact2 at: 07-02-2013, 10:41	I guess most of us forgot what this topic was about. Malko the Super Troll has done his job. He already moved on to other, greater challenges in the match fixing debate. The kids are shivering with anticipation for what he will do next.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Rienk Date: 07-02-2013, 12:06	@ walter-wade O, then the top 3 is: 1 Turkey 2 Russia 3 Italie/maybe at the moment the Premier league

Author: nemesys
Date: 08-02-2013, 02:04
Edited by: nemesys
at: 08-02-2013, 02:07

@walter-wade
i wanted to ask what the countries spend much money but can't get the success?

IMHO it would be useful to give us a definition of "success". Take for example Serie A:

- If success it is the ability to win European trophies, nothing to blame: 2 CL in the last 6 (2007, 2010), as for Spain and England. No matter what you do spend, if the goal is to win, you cannot do better than win.

- If success it is related to a long-term financial model able to (at least) sustain itself coherently with the FFP, or success is to increase the appeal of the product domestically and internationally, then in average the scenario is pretty mediocre. As someone already pointed out, it is also true that things vary from club to club: there are few clubs coherently managed, which are reasonably successful and even generate money.

Just my two cents.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: nuno Date: 09-02-2013, 12:20	for me top 3: 1-portugal 2-cyprus 3-belgium

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Malko Date: 09-02-2013, 16:45	cinebelul, i never said Sochaux would win the Bundesliga, but Fuerth even would not be in the first french league....

Author: Lorric
Date: 10-02-2013, 21:01
Edited by: Lorric
at: 10-02-2013, 21:11

Just a little something for the people who dismiss players simply because they're old, today, the 39 year old Giggs started for Manchester United against Everton, scored for Manchester United, and played the full 90mins.

Been in the Premier League for 21 seasons, scored in all 21 seasons, and still doesn't look like he's slowing down. 2 more seasons with Manchester United before it became the Premier League. Played for Great Britain at the Olympics with all those U23 players and looked just as fit as any of them. Was one of the best players on that team.

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: Zarastro Date: 10-02-2013, 23:37 Edited by: Zarastro at: 11-02-2013, 01:31	" cinebelul, i never said Sochaux would win the Bundesliga, but Fuerth even would not be in the first french league...." Yes sure whatever you say Malko... .

Re: top 3 countries of europe...
Author: vavact2 Date: 11-02-2013, 11:03 Edited by: vavact2 at: 11-02-2013, 11:47	@Lorric No one dismissed Beckham or any other player for being old. Some footballers can remain at a high level for many years. Giggs is a perfect example. Beckham is not. He's washed-up.

Author: cinebelu
Date: 14-02-2013, 02:43
Edited by: cinebelu
at: 14-02-2013, 02:52

"We'll see. I hope that if PSG will win deservedly in Mestalla playing 4-3-3 (or 4-3-2-1), you will recognize it with fair play" nemesys

Congratulations! I didnt watch it (actually I havent watched any game of PSG this season

), but now I will watch their next (ok, not the next, because they are like through), QF 1st leg. They awaked now my interest, and I even wait for Becks, to be surprised by him. If he'll confirm, then respect!, but you understand that it would be a relish for me to see him going down, the same as Lorric enjoyed to watch Ibra implode vs Eng at Euro... (Ibra confirmed me, he's an idiot, by geting red card last minute, totally uneccessary. Will he miss 1 or 2 games?)

@Malko: you see here - me - how they can bring more people to watch their games: not by bringing Becks or other PR like that, not by declaring themselves the center of universe - was it qatari's wish to have it like that in the media?

"The kids are shivering with anticipation for what he will do next."vavact
The kids try to bring him to an end

, to stop trolling and behave normal. But, you see, other enjoy to play with him (I totally understand guys like greenbay), or other mean his behaviour provoke other again to bring very intgeresting rewievs or statistics (totally agree). Malko is a thing to take like you want it to have

(dont allow the troll to controll you). And it depends also on how you feel at that day: sometimes I want fun, another time Im annoyed and would insult him, or other time again I simply ignore it, etc.
...now let see his reaction, cause I wrote that here...