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Celtic keep the Champions Path streak going
Author: Lorric Date: 05-12-2012, 23:18	A team has qualified to the last 16 from the Champions path every year. Olympiacos 09/10 Copenhagen 10/11 APOEL 11/12 Celtic 12/13 Nearly had two this year with Cluj.

Author: nemesys
Date: 05-12-2012, 23:50

I sow Celtic twice this season, both times against Spartak, both times it was maybe a little bit lucky to bring home 3 points, but both times seemed to me a team well built with an identity and a game plan, and IMHO the better of the two on the pitch.

I didn't see the other matches against Benfica and Barcelona, so I can't tell about those, but from what I sow, the qualification is deserved.

About Cluj I don't know too much what to tell, I didn't see any game in that group, however from results (many of them quite unexpected) I guess Cluj and Galatasaray performed better than expected on paper. The qualification to CL KOs goes to Galatasaray by H2H rule, but with 10 points in a CL group and a victory in Old Trafford in the last match, with Galatasaray eliminated for 78 minutes in the other match, Cluj could have good reasons I guess to be a bit unhappy.

Overall I think it is positive that every season one out of five clubs champions from lower countries gets into the CL KOs, it gives a chance to see different clubs, players and styles of play.

It gives to the competition a bit of diversity from a season to the other. And since in the last season Apoel did great also in KOs, I think we can start wonder with curiosity about how good this Celtic could perform in a KO round vs. a group winner now.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Re: Celtic keep the Champions Path streak going
Author: Lorric Date: 05-12-2012, 23:53 Edited by: Lorric at: 05-12-2012, 23:59	I saw Benfica vs Celtic and the two matches vs Barcelona. I believe all results were fair. Oh, speaking of diversity, the Europa league is getting some too. Possible fixture in the last 32: Inter vs Chelsea Grudge match Oh and speaking of Chelsea, they're out of the Champions League, but could soon go to Japan and become World Champions!

Author: nemesys
Date: 06-12-2012, 00:01

Nobles in decadency. I think both need to rebuild them-self having an old team able to conquer the maximum trophy at the peak (and just before the sunset) of its players careers. I guess Chelsea have way more financial resources, so maybe the rebuilt could be quicker and more efficient, we'll see how long it will take.. By the way, I have doubts about both the coaches (I mean, they are pretty good, but they IMHO are not (yet?) on the level of Guardiola, Capello, Fergusson, Mourinho, Ancellotti, Del Bosque, ...).

Cheers!

- nemesys

Author: Lorric
Date: 06-12-2012, 00:06
Edited by: Lorric
at: 06-12-2012, 00:10

Both teams are doing the same thing, manegerial revolving door. I have heard negative things about their current manager.

If the actual match took place, Chelsea would have an edge due to Benitez's time at Inter.

Benitez himself, let's not forget his Liverpool days. I also believe all the managers that have come after him at Inter have performed worse than Benitez. But at the same time he's been out of the game for a long time. And also, he's only an interim manager. I've even seen a shot of an official Chelsea document which lists him as such "Interim manager" not "Manager". I'm surprised that Benitez would take such a job actually. The Chelsea manager seat is one of the worst manegerial jobs in football in my eyes. Previous manager wins CL and FA Cup, then gets fired after a dip in form following an explosive start to the season. All teams have dips in form.

Liverpool have gone through a string of inferior managers since Benitez left them too.

Author: nemesys
Date: 06-12-2012, 00:16
Edited by: nemesys
at: 06-12-2012, 00:19

Interim manager

The funny part it is that usually also when it is known that the coach is "Ad Interim", it is not black on white on papers.
I guess he was willing to take the management of a great club, to put himself back into the top football.

About Benitez years at Liverpool, he was great in Europe, nobody can forget the Istambul final, and the following one two years later lost, and he won also FA cups and League Cups IIRC, so yes he has some "palmares"; but in Premier IIRC he was always far away from 1st and 2nd, and also if Liverpool was maybe a bit weaker than say Manchester United of those years, getting always 3rd and 4th and never not even fight for the title is a bit a limit: if you are great, at least in the best season, you should at least fight for the title (even if you miss it) also not having the best squad. It is true that those years Chelsea and Manchester United were definitely on the Europen level top clubs.

It is a good coach, don't get me wrong, I just think IMHO he still have to show to the in the greatest of its generation.

LOL, I guess we got a bit OT from Celtic qualification. :P

The beauty of football talking...

Cheers!

- nemesys

Re: Celtic keep the Champions Path streak going
Author: Lorric Date: 06-12-2012, 00:45 Edited by: Lorric at: 06-12-2012, 00:46	I personally think Benitez massively overachieved at Liverpool. I never thought even once when he was there that his team was strong enough to win the title or even seriously contend for it.

Author: nemesys
Date: 08-12-2012, 03:03

@Lorric
Oooops. I missed this last reply, sorry.

Well, since you are more familiar than I am with English football clubs, fans and media expectations, I see no reasons to contradict you.

I thought Liverpool in the years they were doing great in Europe, where also considered a potential contender for the Premier League title (even if not as favorite as Manchester United and Chelsea).

By the way, back on topic, from what you know, is Celtic football club and Celtic fans satisfied with what they achieved already, or they reasonably dream about achieving something more this spring, after a 1-2 2-1 against Barcelona and a 2-1 3-2 against Spartak in the GS?

Cheers!

- nemesys

Author: Lorric
Date: 08-12-2012, 14:30
Edited by: Lorric
at: 08-12-2012, 14:49

I suppose only seeing Liverpool in action in the Champions League, you'd think they'd be a threat to the Premier League title. But I think it's more a combination of two things, a tremendous ability to get themselves "up for" big one off games and knowing they weren't strong enough to contend for the EPL title, so putting a greater focus on Europe. They would often be realistically out of the title race come the KO stage, so could focus on the CL. Back then, the "big 4" were way ahead of the rest, so the 4th place team would usually finish comfortably ahead of the 5th place team. Teams can't do that now, because there are other teams breathing down the neck of the 4th place side.

As for Celtic, I'm confident they were happy just to reach the group stage! I fully expect them to fight hard in the last 16 though, and with their fantastic CL home record and atmosphere, you really can't count them out, especially now they've tightened things up away from home, where before they used to be atrocious. No Rangers to trouble them in the league affords them a tactical advantage over other teams as well which they've exploited well so far. They've dropped points in just about every league game after a CL match, but with no Rangers around, they can afford to do so.

Author: nemesys
Date: 08-12-2012, 16:02

@Lorric

Well, I follow Premiership too, and especially in those years I used too watch it quite a bit, and especially the matches concerning Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal, or maybe Tottenham, to know better about those teams and their players since I play CL related fantasy football.

But from outside the country it is harder to get the idea of what a club is up to fight for in the competition: you miss the fans feedback, you miss the local media comments, you miss quite a bit the atmosphere surrounding the club after each match won or loss.

I just remember many skilled strikers playing for Liverpool in that decade: from Fowler to Owen, from Morientes to Torres. And also top players like Gerrard (in its best season probably the best midfielder around), Xabi Alonso, and even players like Carragher, Sissoko, Riise, Hyypia, seemed quality players to me, IMO in average quite better than what Liverpool has now.

Sure, it was clear to me that Manchester United and Chelsea (and even Arsenal in some seasons) had a better squad, taking the over 25 players composing it; but I thought that however the Reds fans would expect to win a title or fight for it, in the "when everything goes well" season. And I thought it was a bit disappointing for them to be always so far from the leader so soon in the season.

But from what I read from your last post, looks like it was kind of an accepted deal, and sounds good enough to me to believe it. So Rafa wasn't too pressured about be competitive or winning in the Premier, and as long as he was able to bring home (FA, League and European) Cups and qualify for the next CL its position as manager was safe. It makes sense.

I agree on your analysis on what it takes to do well in European Cups! It is a different approach compared to League matches, often to do well you mostly need to prepare well the match tactically, and relax your players to lower the pressure and make them play confident. Here Ancellotti is considered really a master in that, and probably there Benitez is too.

About Celtic thanks for the info! I saw the atmosphere in the last match vs. Spartak, the stadium was really full and involved! Nice spectacle. And yes, traditionally at home Celtic is a very strong opponent!

Cheers!

- nemesys