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France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Malko
Date: 10-05-2012, 11:41
Normally, the teams which become champions, second ant third play the championsleague next year. For France, it will again not be that !
it already begins. Now that Montpellier will play the CL for France, Olivier Giroud is announced.....in bayern Munich!
All the players which qualified Montpellier for this CL should be oblidged to stay in Montpellier and make possible Montpellier would go far (quarterfinals? semifinals?final?) in CL.
It is always the same crap. A club which has real chances even to win an european cup qualifies, and plays with a complete different new team next year.
Without Giroud and belhanda, Montpellier is no more the team that becomes maybe french champion
This "going abroad" must stop for Ligue 1 players. One for all !

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Friesland
Date: 10-05-2012, 13:31
Funny, the exact same things happen in the Eredivisie all the time. You see a lot of Dutch players playing all over Europe. Heerenveen, for example, might lose 6 of their starting 11, this summer.

So, it absolutely no reason to lose place 6. If all Dutch players remained in the Eredivisie, perhaps we would have been in the top 3 of the country ranking... But seriously, it's a given fact these players leave, and I'm not going to consider "what if all these players stayed in the Eredivisie?" They didn't, so end of story.


You have a point when you say the teams that qualify for Europe are not the same as those that will actually play. However, you can do nothing about it. Ideally you might want the teams qualify for the European competitions of that season, since that is the period in which they were the best teams. To do so, you need to know all results in advance, so this is not really possible.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: executor
Date: 10-05-2012, 13:51
Just be greatful your championship isn't a "spring-autumn" one. If it would've been, then some teams (like those qualified directly for CLGS) could've waited up to 10 months before playing in the Euro-season for which they qualified!

But it seems there will be fewer such countries. Russia gave up that format. And so is Armenia. And with the "global warming" soon there won't be such cases

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: spoonman
Date: 10-05-2012, 13:52
Edited by: spoonman
at: 10-05-2012, 14:12
Welcome to the real world, Malko.

But I can reassure you: The reports about Giroud/Bayern are just rumours at the moment. What I read yesterday is that if Montpellier takes 1st or 2nd place, they don't want to sell any of their key players (Giroud, Belhanda, and another one I can't remember). Time will tell if they're strong-minded enough to stick to that strategy.

Of course, money will be an important factor but the "sexiness" of the league is another issue. In that respect, the Bundesliga has vastly improved in recent years: big stadiums, huge attendance figures, great atmosphere - and a 4th CL spot that's practically guaranteed until 2015. Plus the fact that players' wages seem to be paid promptly which doesn't seem to be the norm in other leagues, e.g. Spain.

On the other hand, Mönchengladbach will probably have even bigger problems than Montpellier, so you're not alone. One-hit-wonders will always happen.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Suarez16
Date: 10-05-2012, 13:59
@Malko. In other words: are you suggesting that all teams who qualify for Europe are prohibited to perform any transfers (either in or out), to ensure that the same team that has qualified will play in the European competition? If not, why bother?
All clubs have in- and outgoing transfers and for a 'smaller' club like Montpellier is logic that more players have an outgoing transfer after a good season. The bigger clubs are more interested in the players than after a bad season. On the other hand, Montpellier is also more likely to gain higher quality ingoing transfers, since they have more to offer right now. This balance holds for every club and becoming a 'big' club, where these transfer issues play a smaller role, takes a long time.
But yeah, I see your point. In your beloved French ligue, these issues play a larger role, since it's the 'quality of the league' that any team can win from any team and therefore no team is capable of becoming a 'big' club anymore. Hence, other European competitors every season.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: ferdi
Date: 10-05-2012, 14:17
Edited by: ferdi
at: 10-05-2012, 14:39
Malko wrote: "All the players which qualified Montpellier for this CL should be oblidged to stay in Montpellier and make possible Montpellier would go far (quarterfinals? semifinals?final?) in CL."

I don't think this is feasible. For a team that qualifies for the Champions League every year, it would mean that the players could never leave the club.

What would be possible: The teams that qualified for Europe could stay together as a team in the following year, but only for the European competitions. For example Olivier Giroud could play next year for Bayern in the Bundesliga, but for Montpellier in the Champions League. And only from the year after next year on, he could play for Bayern in Europe, should they qualify. And whenever he leaves the Bayern Bundesliga team, he would still play for them one more season in Europe.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: spoonman
Date: 10-05-2012, 14:43
That's a good one, ferdi...

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Malko
Date: 10-05-2012, 16:10
friesland, yes, Belgium too. But you cannot compare with the french League 1. They should keep their players like germany or Italy

spoonman, i hope that they are roumours....Gomes also hopes....."sey" the Bundesliga? c'mon .........it's mererely a "grey" league compared to the champaign leagues like Spain or France.

Suarez, NO : i know that any worker can work where he wants. I wantthat the clubs of Ligue1 which qualify are able to keep the players. the Ligue1 is at least as 2sexy" as the Bundesliga. Now...concerning the money, they should align.

ferdi : very nice suggestion, burt would it be realizable?

BTW, if Montpellier lose Giroud and belhama, theyx should try to get Falcao and Diego......

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: adrian
Date: 10-05-2012, 16:27
What is a champaign league? Well, Ligue1 could only be described as a champaign league since champaign is a product that can be found in France often, but not Spain...

Not knowing about Giroud I am still afraid that he is one of the players that wastes his talent by a transfer to a team needing some other guy to keep the bench warm...
Money really makes you blind for the right decision in terms of your perspective as a sportsman instead of a "rich" man...
Still, finding an attractive team is much more important than finding an attractive league, isn't it?

I think that a league is sexy if you see fast and offensive football, if you play in great stadiums with great and many supporters and sometimes this is possible only trough the team you choose for a transfer and not the league....

Therefore Bayern and bundesleague might be the better choice for giroud but picking them just because they're in the final would be too easy...

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: spoonman
Date: 10-05-2012, 16:28
Edited by: spoonman
at: 10-05-2012, 16:29
@Malko: Diego might return to the grey city of Wolfsburg (he was out on loan at Atlético).

http://www.ndr.de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/diego241.html

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Malko
Date: 10-05-2012, 17:01
Edited by: Malko
at: 10-05-2012, 17:04
adrian, champaign league is....the pleasure of playing, the spectacular scenes, the good technique aso....

Concerning Giroud, you are right. He should play 2 or 3 seasons more in Montpellier and then could maybe have a better transfer than actually to...Bayern, where he will be a star like Ribery, ...but nobody cares anymore concerning the big european clubs.

Concerning fast football, adrian, I agree, and therefor, i find Ligue 1 and Spanish League the sexiest, and Italy and germany more grey. Concerning stadiums, France will have the best and moderns in Europe soon. some examples? copy and paste necessary, i cant do html-language here......

spoonman, for Dieago, it would be a real waste of time to return to a grey mouse like that.

Lyon :
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3457/3357278972_cb3279e5cc_b.jpg

Lille:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3488/3298380011_ce9185f17e_o.jpg

Bordeaux:
http://www.chezlesgirondins.com/images/stories/thumbnails/images/stories/stade/
grand-stade-de-bordeaux-int-490x279.jpg

>http://www.sudouest.fr/images/2011/07/21/456874_17307951.jpg

jhust 3 examples. But as I say, France will have the modernst and "sexiest" stadiums in Europe.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: spoonman
Date: 10-05-2012, 17:26
Edited by: spoonman
at: 10-05-2012, 17:26
Lyon and Bordeaux look really nice, while Lille seems to be a smaller copycat of Bayern's Allianz Arena, with the added bonus of a retractable roof.

Of course, the L1 will benefit from these new stadiums, just as the Bundesliga did a few years ago. The only problem I see is that the stadiums have to be quite big for EURO 2016 while they might prove too big for the relatively small fanbase of L1. But we'll have to wait and see about that.

Will any of the clubs own their new stadiums, or will they just be tenants?

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 10-05-2012, 19:12
Malko said: "friesland, yes, Belgium too. But you cannot compare with the french League 1.".

Why is that, Malko? Why can't we compare? Because the Netherlands already suffered from the loss of players on a far greater scale then France? Or because France inherently deserves better?

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: spoonman
Date: 10-05-2012, 19:22
Mind you, France has got a "champagne league". Of course they deserve better.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: ransborg
Date: 10-05-2012, 21:22
"friesland, yes, Belgium too. But you cannot compare with the french League 1. They should keep their players like germany or Italy

spoonman, i hope that they are roumours....Gomes also hopes....."sey" the Bundesliga? c'mon .........it's mererely a "grey" league compared to the champaign leagues like Spain or France."

French league is bigger, better and more important than the dutch and german beacuse it is... Jes Malko, dont you ever get tired?

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: This_is_it
Date: 10-05-2012, 21:25
The same applies to other teams from non-top leagues. On the other side, if a small team like Montpellier qualifies directly for the Champions League, that surely must be a good reason for players to stay for one more year. Don't know what's grey about the Bundesliga though.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: adrian
Date: 10-05-2012, 22:09
I think that the number of expectators is a clear indicator of how "sexy" a league is. and speaking of that I'd like to say thanks for the links:

As a student of urban planning I appreciate those great investments in infrastructure and I hope that these stadiums will be filled. This is the doubt I have about Ligue 1 at least for some. Football is a business that is harder to predict concerning supply and demand of potencial consumers if compared to other branches. So, if these stadiums are well planned and still have an arquitectural quality everything is done...except the football itself.

Successful teams that play regularly in CL f.e. will attract new supporters but will also create higher prices and therefore higher expectations. If a team like OM does not go to CL once, it might happen that the stadium is empty.
So who can give a guarantee that these teams go to CL regularly? It is not the stadium IMO.

Or does Instanbul BB go to CL regularly? =)

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: JK
Date: 10-05-2012, 22:17
Edited by: JK
at: 10-05-2012, 22:17
Mönchengladbach already lost its best players to richer teams. It is always the same in the Bundesliga. There is an unexpected poor team at the top and next year it is crap again, because other richer teams have bought its best players. It is annoying, but money rules the world.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: nemesys
Date: 11-05-2012, 08:04
Edited by: nemesys
at: 11-05-2012, 08:05
@Malko
All the players which qualified Montpellier for this CL should be oblidged to stay in Montpellier (...) This "going abroad" must stop for Ligue 1 players. One for all !

Uhm... you are aware that after the "sentenza Bosman" this is not possible, right?

Things changed after that, you know. And a quite important Tribunal decided so. It is not just about the will of the clubs anymore, now the will of the players has a huge impact on transfers.

So what if the player, especially if its contract is over, wishes to leave the previous club (in your example Montpelier)? How to negate him his own right? And what if the new club (in your example Bayern) is willing to give the player a salary way over what the old club (Montpellier in your example) can pay? Would the player be forced to gain less?

By the way, a fair solution maybe would be that, since Ligue 1 is by far the sexiest league but French clubs have pretty hard time winning trophies in Europe, the Ligue 1 Champion directly qualifies to the CL final. I wonder how Uefa didn't think about it yet, CL would be so sexy this way!
What about this solution? Would it be fair in your opinion? Ehm... yes, sarcasm.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Ricardo
Date: 11-05-2012, 11:28
Well, lately some Dutch people went even to play in Portugal. I don't think the quality is really better there, but the payment for sure is. I though there was a financial crisis going on also in Portugal. But where the healthy countries have to keep there finance in control (otherwise they can't support the other countries), some places just don't know when to stop. I wonder if Labiad knows about the payment problem of Leiria
So what to do for France to keep their players? offer more money or just accept that Montpellier is just a minor team in service of the big teams like most of the teams. Some teams are bigger than others, you could draw a pyramid of all teams with players moving up. As tehre is no real top-club in France (?) the step to abroad is easier from all clubs. Otherwise players move first to top clubs of a country (smaller steps).

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: caravaj
Date: 11-05-2012, 12:27
Edited by: caravaj
at: 11-05-2012, 12:28
And maybe we'll see funny events like the european fund helping spannish (for example) banks that can't recover the money they loan to professionnal football clubs...

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Johnzon
Date: 11-05-2012, 13:12
@ caravaj

Without re-opening the discussion about pros and cons of the Financial Fair Play, I sincerely hope that it will help the 'smaller' countries

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Malko
Date: 11-05-2012, 14:21
"nemesys", Montpellier should pay the same money to a player like Giroud as bayern . As far as I know, France is economically not less stronger than germany.....so like Peugeot pays as well as Audi, Montpellier should do it too.......At least, if Bayern wants Giroud, to have an exchange and getting for example Gomes in change.

and yes, Bosman was very very harmful to football.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: spoonman
Date: 11-05-2012, 14:37
Edited by: spoonman
at: 11-05-2012, 14:38
Malko, your tendency to ignore facts is taking its toll. Your dream world is finally crumbling down.

2010/11 total Bundesliga revenue: 1.66 billion Euros
2010/11 total Ligue 1 revenue: 1.07 billion Euros
http://comparetheleagues.com/european-league-finances/

And you're seriously expecting that a L1 underdog can pay the same wages as the Bundesliga powerhouse? Come on, grow up!

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Lorric
Date: 11-05-2012, 14:51
And the little fact that he might be trading in the Champions of France for the Champions of Europe and the World...

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Malko
Date: 11-05-2012, 17:16
spoonman, it depends on who is the boss of this "underdog", as you name Montpellier. So i could sya that Dortmund is an underdog too.....
I do not think that generalyy in Germany, a football player ears much more money than in France. Those numbers are very difficult to obtain.
Concerning the Top 20 in the world, there is no Bundesliga player and no Ligue 1 player...
(http://www.paradisi.de/Fitness_und_Sport/Ballsport/Fussball/News/62301.php)

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: adrian
Date: 11-05-2012, 17:47
It is up to the club how much should be payed. At least costs for a player do not only consist of his "pure" quality. It is also a matter of the team.

For example, in madrid goiroud-merchandising-products would give more money to the club than in ...saragossa or so...
therefore his value for the club is automatically higher if you just look at this factor and therefore a team like madrid would (and could) pay more for such a player...

The cost of player is not a valuable indicator for his real skill IMO!!!

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: breaker1234
Date: 11-05-2012, 21:36
I'm not quite sure about the player's salaries...a lot of salaries are not known and even special bonuses (such as goal/victory bonuses etc) which are completely different in every club would not appear in any "official" salary statements...

anyway, when looking at the top player's market values we can see that three players play in Bundesliga whereas none play in Ligue 1...of course most of the players are playing in England and Spain...

Source: http://www.transfermarkt.at/de/default/marktwerte/basics.html

1 Lionel Messi
FC Barcelona
100.000.000 €

2 Cristiano Ronaldo
Real Madrid
90.000.000 €

3 Andrés Iniesta
FC Barcelona
65.000.000 €

4 Wayne Rooney
Manchester United
65.000.000 €

5 Cesc Fàbregas
FC Barcelona
55.000.000 €

6 Kun Agüero
Manchester City
47.000.000 €

7 David Silva
Manchester City
46.000.000 €

8 Robin van Persie
FC Arsenal
45.000.000 €

9 Franck Ribéry
FC Bayern München
42.000.000 €

10 Mario Gomez
FC Bayern München
42.000.000 €

11 Falcao
Atlético Madrid
40.000.000 €

12 Luka Modric
Tottenham Hotspur
39.000.000 €

13 Gerard Piqué
FC Barcelona
38.000.000 €

14 Bastian Schweinsteiger
FC Bayern München
38.000.000 €

15 Zlatan Ibrahimovic
AC Milan
37.000.000 €

16 Nani
Manchester United
36.000.000 €

17 Dani Alves
FC Barcelona
36.000.000 €

18 Sergio Busquets
FC Barcelona
35.000.000 €

19 Gareth Bale
Tottenham Hotspur
35.000.000 €

20 Gonzalo Higuaín
Real Madrid
35.000.000 €

Assuming that more valuable players usually are able to earn comparatively more salary we can get quite a good idea about real conditions...however, it's important to notice that players solely employed for marketing reasons (e.g. Beckham...) are not represented in this list...

And here's another statistic which shows the most valauble clubs:

Source: http://www.transfermarkt.at/de/default/top-teams/basics.html

1 FC Barcelona Primera División 591.000.000 €

2 Real Madrid Primera División 539.000.000 €

3 Man City Premier League 467.000.000 €

4 Man Utd Premier League 418.500.000 €

5 Chelsea Premier League 381.000.000 €

6 Bayern München 1.Bundesliga 360.550.000 €

7 Arsenal Premier League 299.250.000 €

8 AC Mailand Serie A 270.800.000 €

9 Tottenham Premier League 269.250.000 €

10 Juventus Turin Serie A 246.700.000 €

11 Inter Mailand Serie A 238.850.000 €

12 Liverpool Premier League 235.200.000 €

13 FC Porto SuperLiga 211.200.000 €

14 Paris Ligue 1 206.600.000 €

15 Neapel Serie A 194.250.000 €

16 Bor. Dortmund 1.Bundesliga 191.250.000 €

17 FC Valencia Primera División 182.000.000 €

18 Atlético Madrid Primera División 179.500.000 €

19 AS Rom Serie A 164.000.000 €

20 Benfica SuperLiga 163.800.000 €

Looking at the statistics we can see that most of the clubs are from LaLiga, Serie A and the Premier League - nevertheless we have 2 clubs from Germany (Bayern and Dortmund) but only 1 from France (PSG). When looking at the top 50 the allocation looks as follows:
6 clubs from Germany (Bayern, Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Stuttgart)
4 clubs from France (PSG, Lyon, Marseille and Lille)

Based on these statistics I dare to pose the theory that on average Bundeliga has more valuable players (and thus pays more player salary on average) than Ligue 1 - based on the assumption that there is indeed a significant correlation between market value and player's salary...

well I didn't carry out any scientific analysis...but the data point at a certain direction...

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Lyonnais
Date: 11-05-2012, 23:12
Edited by: Lyonnais
at: 11-05-2012, 23:12
Malko, 2 points about Giroud.

1. Montpellier bought Giroud from Tours (Ligue 2) two seasons ago.
If I follow your argument, I guess that his transfer from Tours to Montpellier should have been forbidden, shouldn't it? After all, Tours could have been promoted with Giroud still playing for them.

Good players leaving for a bigger club is just a reality and to some extent, it's necessary. Players like Kopa, Platini or Zidane - just to name some French names - were great with Reims, Nancy and Bordeaux but they became true stars when they succeeded at Real Madrid, Juventus or both of them (!)
I certainly don't say that Giroud has this potential but I fully understand that he wants to assess his level and win titles (and money) with a bigger club than Montpellier. Nothing shocking to me. It's a huge opportunity for him.

2. Are you sure that Montpellier would be so angry to sell Giroud at the best price?
Sure that the coach will not like it, but what about the Head of Finance? After all, they might have the opportunity to sell Giroud for about 20+ million. It's a lot of money and who knows, this opportunity might not come back.

I remember what the Chairman of Rennes said when he sold Gyan to Sunderland for 16 million after the WC. He said "it's a big loss for the club, but at that price, all my colleagues told me that I would be silly to refuse". 2 years later, it's fair to say that it would have been indeed very silly to refuse.
Giroud did a very good season but it's his first season really at that level. You don't really know yet whether it's just a one-off performance (Gignac?) or if Giroud is a true rising player. I don't know if Montpellier will get a 20+ million offer, but I think that it's worth thinking twice before refusing such an offer.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: adrian
Date: 11-05-2012, 23:17
Thanks for the information. But where does that site take the numbers from? I Don't know any kind of site like this in spain or english? Since it is a german source I wouldn't wonder if there are especially german players...

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: nuno
Date: 12-05-2012, 03:07
Ricardo,labyad choose Sporting,and other players,because portuguese teams are showed for the top teams in europe as real madrid,barcelona,chelsea,man.united ...in portugal they can to "jump" to big teams in europe.
after a success with Cristiano Ronaldo england,spain see Portugal a good market ,ever year the top clubs buy players of portuguese teams.
ricky van wolfswinkel and now labyad choose sporting,because that reason.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: nuno
Date: 12-05-2012, 03:19
the same happen in Portugal,for next season Porto will lose the best players as Hulk,Alvaro Pereira,joão moutinho,but our president is very good in to do a new teams every season,so every year porto have ever a competitive teams.
Recently,Benfica also sell the best players.
The braga president is very friend Pinto Costa (porto president) and also have good strategy to construction a new teams.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Ricardo
Date: 12-05-2012, 15:40
@nuno,
I don't think that the big Spanish clubs don't see PSV. I don't hink Sporting is abetter club as PSV, and also not more visible. Thoug maybe for the sub-top in Spain. English and German clubs scout a lot in Holland, picking the young talented players.
I don't think it's visibility, and I don't hink it's quality of the team or quality of the league.
Apparently he had no connnection to PSV despite his years of training there. Maybe he had problems with the people there. He went for the money and the adventure. PSV (and most Dutch teams) are pretty restrictive with salaries.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: breaker1234
Date: 12-05-2012, 16:15
@ adrian:

Yes ...I was also wondering where they would get the numbers from? I checked the website and it seems that market values are being determined by the community in a certain way, which might be a good method if you have a sufficient number of members (which seems to be true for this homepage). One thing that is definitely not correct are the exact numbers...but what those statistics are able to express is the RELATIVE value of players and clubs (e.g. we know that player a has more market value than player b but it's not sure how much more...)

I checked on the website and found it's also available in a lot of different countries...austria, germany, italy, switzerland, england,...

here's the english website:

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: adrian
Date: 12-05-2012, 16:34
Thank you. I think it is something to take a look at frequently. I'm just hoping that the community consists of some experts, too.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Malko
Date: 12-05-2012, 16:49
Lyonnais, if Giroud wants to win titles with a bigger club than Montpellier, he should go to paris Sg, but stay in Ligue 1. It will be important to make the players stay in the big french clubs. Concerning selling a player much more than you have bought it, this led my FC metz from vice-champion to Ligue 3 in less than 15 years !!!!! I told them 10 years ago that they are right going into a wall this way, they didn't believe. (They = president Carlo Molinari which invited me 10 years ago to speak about FC Metz as vice president of the Luxembourgish Supporter club). Selling Giroud? yes, but only if you buy soeone at least equal...exchnge with Gomez for example.
Concerning Rennes, no, keeping gyan maybe would have made Renne one of the leading teams in France with good results in European Cups, which is more important than some millions.....

Concerning the "list", you also see that PSG is considered bigger than Dortmund actually........

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: JK
Date: 12-05-2012, 19:07
Edited by: JK
at: 12-05-2012, 19:07
Some infos from wikipedia about the site.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfermarkt.de

Here is a google translation into English:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wik
ipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTransfermarkt.de


This part is about the content of the site:

"Transfermarkt.de particular messages published to date and titles of international soccer leagues and provides information about the club history, operations and performance, as well as the market value of individual players ready. The published market values ​​of football players are mere estimates, arising from the opinion of the portal and online community based on publicly available information concerning the player. To this community include the user of the portal, as well as facilitators and "Information scouts". [3> The operator specifies that attempted influence, some of players consultants would not be allowed on the market value, yet the integrity and neutrality of information disputed . For example, the data of the entire area, "Eastern Europe" can be verified only 30 to 40 members. [5> Although on the market values, especially of publications of the Axel-Springer-Verlag often as figures quoted are purely imaginary values, which often based on hearsay. [6> [7> Scientific studies confirm the details, however, a good correlation with comparative data and use the data for analysis. [8> [9>

On Transfermarkt.de any interested party can open an account, which allows participation in discussions, the betting and similar features. In addition, registered users can corrections to match reports and club and player profiles, send that data are then checked by the scouts."


So the site is not perfect, but it gets a lot of things right. Scientific studies believe, it estimates the market value of players quite well overall. I guess they get at least players from the big European leagues quite right. There are many news about them in the press and many people, who follow their careers and participate in discussions about their market value.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Malko
Date: 13-05-2012, 08:35
JK, about the market value : most clubs, even in the big leagues, have to detect a good player, before its market value is rising.....Big clubs, and any european team of the big 6 nations should be considered as a big one, should give itself the means to keep their players. cause of cause, at that moment, the market value will rise ......
Would Ribery have its actual market value if the would still play in Boulogne sur Mer?

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: spoonman
Date: 13-05-2012, 13:10
Edited by: spoonman
at: 13-05-2012, 13:13
Académica Coimbra will be pleased to hear that they've suddenly become a big club.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: nemesys
Date: 13-05-2012, 13:26
@Malko
Uhm... I've hard time understanding your points: first you say you dislike the after-Bosman system, where players are free to move all over across Europe; then you say you would be fine with Giroud going to Bayern, if Gomez would move to Ligue 1 too.

I can understand the fact that back before Bosman, when clubs regulars were for about 80% made of local players, the Uefa competitions were a bit more balanced and unpredictable, hence maybe a bit more "fair" or interesting to watch somehow, from your point of view.

However, the things have been changed, and this must be accepted I guess. Still see today each European league as the edge of its own local transfer market, seems a bit anachronistic and backwards to me. There is today an European (at least) transfer market, not a Ligue 1 one, a Bundesliga one, and such...

And I'm not even sure that Bosman rules really damaged Ligue 1 (or anything else): Ligue 1 clubs never really shined relatively to Uefa titles, neither pre-Bosman or after Bosman; it is true that the OM CL title was won in 1993, before Bosman, but Monaco final was way after that. So this might be true, but it still debatable IMO.

Cheers!

- nemesys

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: Lyonnais
Date: 14-05-2012, 00:30
And I'm not even sure that Bosman rules really damaged Ligue 1 (or anything else): Ligue 1 clubs never really shined relatively to Uefa titles, neither pre-Bosman or after Bosman; it is true that the OM CL title was won in 1993, before Bosman, but Monaco final was way after that. So this might be true, but it still debatable IMO.


hum, you must be kidding I think.

More than 200 players left the Ligue 1 in the 5 seasons after the Bosman Act was in place (an average of 50 players - the best ones - every season for 5 seasons!).
The 90s were the best years for France, clubs were rising, the academies were in advance compared to some other countries and it is fair to say the Bosman Act definitely hurt the clubs in France.
However it is also fair to say that it certainly helped the selection as these players got abroad the experience of the big games (e.g. most of the world champions were playing in Italy at that time before the Premier League started to buy massively in France).

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: nemesys
Date: 14-05-2012, 12:03
@Lyonnais
Well, I guess you surely know Ligue 1 better than I do, and the numbers you are proposing are quite impressive, hence I rest my case on that last note of my previous post. By the way, I wasn't affirming the opposite, I was just saying I wasn't too sure about it.

Cheers!

nemesys

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: greenbay
Date: 14-05-2012, 12:26
This transfermarkt.de webseite is several years in business now. They claim that they have more than 1 million page views daily. The site has become this much popular in Germany, that even the massmarket sports media quote their transfer pricing estimate when players transfer with the details unknown to the media. So you can say, that they are some kind of authority for German transfers and at least the big Euro leagues, that many Germans follow week by week.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: spoonman
Date: 14-05-2012, 13:25
@greenbay:

that even the massmarket sports media quote their transfer pricing estimate

Hardly surprising because transfermarkt.de has been bought up by Axel Springer, the publishers of the notorious BILD tabloid.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: mavano
Date: 14-05-2012, 15:10
Edited by: mavano
at: 14-05-2012, 15:14
I personally consider Transfermarket.de BS.

First of all, there is no such thing as "marketvalue" in football. We're not talking about a carton of milk where you put together manufacturing costs, overhead, profit margin vs the same product from a different manufacturer. Secondly, There is no level buying market. Russian teams spend more for a player than PL teams even if they were to value the player exactly the same. Because they have to to get them. Thirdly, a player is worth whatever a team is willing to pay (which can be different for different teams for the same player) and whatever the team the player plays for thinks he's worth TO THEM.

There is no market value. A player has one or two real world values. Whatever a team payed for him and whatever the guy is representing on the clubs yearly balance sheet. The rest is guys spending their past time on a hobby....


Apart from that, a lot of the values are dubious at best. When I browse through the Dutch teams I can only laugh at some of the Estimates. Adam Maher from AZ is rated 3,5 million. The guy just turned 18 years old, has 3 more years on his contract, just won the Eredivisie best talent award and was called up in the preliminary Dutch Euro 2012 squad. AZ wouldn't sell one of his legs for that price. Eriksen from Ajax is rated 13 million. Any rumors that come through are in the >25 million range.

Let me finish with a good joke for the Dutch followers here:

According to Transfermarket.de, Alexander Gerndt has the same "market value" as Jordy Clasie.

Oh, And Rosales from Twente is worth even more than Adam Maher...

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: spoonman
Date: 16-05-2012, 18:11
Belgian international Eden Hazard (Lille) is on his way to Manchester.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/05/14/3103131/hazard-co
nfirms-manchester-move-without-specifying-united-or

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 16-05-2012, 20:39
And now even Liechenstein may send a different team. Extra time in the cup final, while usually FC Vaduz wins easily.

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: spoonman
Date: 16-05-2012, 20:42
Edited by: spoonman
at: 16-05-2012, 20:43
That would be the end of the world as we know it!

Re: France with different teams in Championsleague nex
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 16-05-2012, 21:48
Well it just happened:

USV gewinnt sensationell den Cup
Im 67. Cupfinale ging der USV Eschen/Mauren gegen das Challenge-League-Team des FC Vaduz zum fünften Mal als Cupsieger hervor. Die Unterländer lagen 2:0 zurück und brachten sich bis zur regulären Spielzeit ins Spiel zurück (2:2). Schliesslich gewann der USV im Penaltyschiessen 2:4