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Author: gukfvaEU
Date: 04-12-2011, 19:32
| 1) What happened to Qualifying Rounds for non-champions, if the title holder will come from top3 associations and will finish as fourth in a domestic league (i.e. Arsenal would win the CL 2011/12 and finish 4th in English Premier League)?
Options I see:
a) Arsenal (that's sure?), English champions, English runners-up in the CL GS and English 3rd instead of Arsenal in CL QR for non-champions.
b) 4 English clubs in the CL GS and empty place in CL QR for non-champions?!
2) What happened, if the title holder will become the runner-up in countries ranked at 7-15th positions (i.e. Olympiacos would win the CL 2011/12 and finish second in Greek Ethniki League)?
I see 2 options:
a) Olympiacos in the CL GS, Greek champions in the CL GS and empty place in CL QR for non-champions? Then we have 14 clubs in this qualifying route? Would one club have a free entry from QR3 into Play-Offs?
b) Olympiacos in the CL GS, Greek champions in CL QR for non-champions instead of Olympiacos?!
I do not have time to search it in UEFA CL regulations.
Thank you for your answers in advance. |
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Author: flob
Date: 04-12-2011, 20:06
Edited by: flob
at: 04-12-2011, 20:13 | You won't find it in the regulations, so far UEFA didn't publish what they will do in these situations, but they will definitely give the titleholder spot to the CL winner, the rest will take the spots they qualified for and not be 'downgraded'.
Judging from what they did in the past, most likely would be:
1) Option b), 4 English clubs in GS, since there is an empty spot in Q4, the runner-ups from place 7 and 8 in the ranking (Russia and Ukraine for 2012/13) will be promoted from Q3 to Q4.
2) Similar, option a), both Greek clubs in GS, since there is an empty spot in Q3, the runner-up of place 7 (Russia) will be promoted from Q3 to Q4. |
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Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 05-12-2011, 10:47
| This will then result in an open spot in EL Q4 since there are only 4 matches in non-champions CL Q3. That will be fixed by moving up 1 team from EL Q3 (CW 16, Switzerland) and EL Q2 (CW 19, Austria) and 2 teams from EL Q1 (CW's 33 and 34, Moldova and Lithuania).
PS: Other teams might be moved up when there is also an empty spot in the EL because of the EL-TH already qualified for CL or EL. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 05-12-2011, 14:15
| @ Flob
It would be 6 and 7 (Portugal and Russia) not 7 and 8.
An alternative could be to grant association 16 (Switzerland) an extra place in Europe on the League Path. |
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Author: pahta
Date: 05-12-2011, 14:28
| I'm pretty agree with Flob with a slight correction:
Since the non-champion route counts 15 participants=10(Q3)+5(Q4), dropping assured Q4 participant (any 4th club of 1-3 ranked countries or any 3rd club of 4-5th is TH) will cause a bye for 2 Q3 participants - representatives of 6th(Portugal) and 7th(Russia) ranked countries, whereas dropping Q3 participant (3rd club of 6th country or any 2nd club of 7-15th is TH) will cause a bye for only representative of 6th ranked country, unless itself is TH, or otherwise the one of 7th. In both the cases the CL Q3 will consist of 4 pairs (i.e. 8 clubs), whose winners will join 6 assured participants of Q4 round. |
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Author: Tim
Date: 05-12-2011, 14:50
Edited by: Tim
at: 05-12-2011, 14:51 | We won't be sure of course until it will occur, but I think flob is right: If a club from Q4 (4th in 1-3 or 3rd in 4-5) wins the CL, the N2 from countries 7 and 8 will get a bye for Q4, because (I hope) UEFA will favor those N2's in stead of the N3 from country 6.
Similarly for situation b), in which case only the N2 from country 7 gets a bye for Q4. |
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Author: flob
Date: 05-12-2011, 15:47
| @Lorric
You're probably right, UEFA might promote N3 from place 6 and the runner-up from place 7.
The Switzerland scenario is possible but very unlikely in my opinion, UEFA usually doesn't change the number of teams qualified for CL/EL afterwards. |
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Author: Lorric
Date: 05-12-2011, 16:00
| I'm sure UEFA would promote 6 first if there was any promoting. 4 and 5 are N3 and 1, 2 and 3 are N4. I also don't understand why anyone thinks 7 and 8 should be first in line.
Remember an additional team in Liverpool was accomodated the first time UEFA ran into something that hadn't been planned for. It could still happen again.
I also wonder if England N4 won the CL if England N3 might get dropped to the qualifiers. |
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Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 05-12-2011, 16:47
| Englands N3 will not be dropped. Their is no maximum for the amount of teams from 1 country to start in the GS, so if England (or Spain of Germany) N4 win the CL, that country will just have 4 teams in the GS.
It's different when a team outside the top 4 of these countries wins the CL, since the total number of teams from 1 country in CL(Q) is 4, so in that case the N4 will be dropped to EL (not sure which round, GS or Q4). Most likely GS since these countries have CW (or N5 when Cup is won by 1-4) also in GS directly. |
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Author: Lusankya
Date: 05-12-2011, 21:20
| Forza-AZ is right. The title holder berth is an extra berth, so no team will ever lose its rightful berth, just because some other team won the CL/EL.
The only exception is of course if this would violate the "no more than 4 teams from one country in the CL" rule. |
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Author: Cloakmaster
Date: 06-12-2011, 14:19
Edited by: Cloakmaster
at: 06-12-2011, 14:28 | If, say, Arsenal wins CL, and becomes 4th in Premier League, ist pretty easy: 4 english clubs in CL-GS, RU from Nations 7&8 move from q3 to q4, q3 remains with 8 teams -> 4 matches.
In case, Arsenal wins CL and finishes on Rank 6 or lower (and not wininng a national cup) in Premier League, things become more difficult: Arsenal and the top three english clubs in CL, 4th, 5th and the two cup winners will play EL. (one additional than usual). How Uefa will produce that extra EL spot has not yet been clarified. |
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Author: tallaght
Date: 06-12-2011, 14:46
| This Season due to the TH spot not needed, Rangers were promoted to Q3.
The highest seeding in Q3 was promoted to the playoff.
The highest seeding in the playoffs were promoted to the CL Group stages
The current access list assumes the title holder place will be taken from a team not qualified for the CL.
If Barcelona win the CL and finish in the Spanish top 4, every team will go up one place.
The main reason why, for example Shamrock Rovers will be seeded in round 2 as a round 1 team gets promoted. And so on.... |
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Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 06-12-2011, 16:49
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 06-12-2011, 16:59 | @Cloakmaster
If England has 4 teams in CL GS and 4 teams in EL, then they indeed need an extra spot in EL.
There will be an extra spot available in EL Q4 because you only have 4 matches in NC-CL Q3 (since there is no English team in Q4). The extra spot needed for England can be that open spot in EL Q4:
CW: GS
4th and 5th: Q4
LCW: Q3
@tallaght
It depends if Barcelona is 1st-3rd or 4th.
-If they are 1st-3rd, then there is a opening in CL GS, which will be filled by moving 1 team from Ch-Q3 to GS (N1 13, Belgium), 1 team from Ch-Q2 to Ch-Q3 (N1 16, Switzerland) and 2 teams from Ch-Q1 to Ch-Q2 (N1 48 & 49, Malta & Northern Ireland).
-If they are 4th, then there will be a opening in NC-Q4 (all 4 Spanish teams enter in the GS, so none in NC-Q4), so 2 teams will move from NC-Q3 to NC Q4 (N3 6, Portugal + N2 7, Russia). The opening resulting from this in EL Q4 will be filled by moving up CW 16 (Switzerland), 19 (Austria), 33 (Moldova) and 34 (Lithuania) 1 round.
PS: It might that UEFA promoted N2 8 in stead of N3 6, as 2nd placed teams might be favoured over 3rd placed teams, but I think the above is more likely. |
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Author: Cloakmaster
Date: 06-12-2011, 21:40
| It would be very interesting whether the "downgraded" 4th in Leauge will be judged as if he had lost his CL-Nq3 match, an end up in EL-q4, or if he will be placed before the english cup winner in EL-GS.
The uefa rule says, the downgraded team will get the "highest place possible". So, possible was that place in Group. But i would not bet on that one. |
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Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 07-12-2011, 10:58
| I bet CW will still get the GS-spot.
But what happens when the Cup is won by 1 of the teams qualified for CL. Normally the 5th in the league would then get the GS-spot, but if the 4th is downgraded from CL to EL, then it would be strange if the 4th would have to enter 1 round before the 5th, so I guess the 4th will then get the GS-spot and the 5th has to start in Q4. |
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