Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

Author: AlanK
Date: 07-03-2011, 18:36

With their incredible record in La Liga (24-2-1), Barsa has matematically clinched a spot in CL 1-4 for next year! One win and one tie in the next three games would set a record when compared with the all-time best for a 30-game season (24-4-2 by Real Madrid in 1960-61)counting two points for a win, one for a tie (yes, "toda comparacion es odiosa").

With all this, they still have to get by Arsenal tomorrow to continue in the CL this season. Visca Barsa!

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: MalcolmW Date: 08-03-2011, 16:48	Well almost! In the somewhat unlikely event that Barsa finish 4th and Real Madrid finish 5th but win the CL!....

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: AlanK Date: 08-03-2011, 17:37	@MalcolmW Whaaaaa? Whaaaaa? We don't get a "Lex Liverpool" in that case?

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: Overgame Date: 09-03-2011, 14:58	On the same topic, Porto is already qualified for CL 2011-2012. They have +26 points ! over the 3rd ranked with 8 games to go.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: Auron Date: 09-03-2011, 18:58 Edited by: Auron at: 09-03-2011, 19:01	If i'm not wrong Blilba (actually 5th in Spain) can get as many points as Barca has right now. Of course Barca has the much better goal difference, but it isn't impossible for Bilbao to overtake Barca, is it? Ok: Barca won both games against Bilbao. being from germany, I'm not that used to that rule.

Author: AlanK
Date: 10-03-2011, 16:40

@Auron:

Right you are--HTH applies! Technically, MalcolmW is correct, in that a fourth place finish by Barsa and Real in fifth place but winning the CL would keep Barsa out of next season's CL, but it ain't overly likely.

What's really fun is that during the second half of the Spanish season, one must constantly check to see if all games among tied teams have been played; if so, current standings are by HTH, if not, by GD. Ain't that a great way to confuse the issue? I think we're the only ones to do it that way--hey, en Espanya, todo es diferente

Author: nemesys
Date: 10-03-2011, 17:07
Edited by: nemesys
at: 10-03-2011, 17:13

@AlanK
Same as in Serie A I guess: when to clubs have the same points is the H2H points earned that decides, then the H2H goal difference.
By the way, up to few seasons ago, to assign the "Scudetto", qualify for UEFA competitions or avoid relegation in Serie B, clubs which ended the season with the same points (sharing the position in the ranking), played after season H2H matches between them! As far as I know the Serie A ranking was never decided by general goal difference.

nemesys.

EDIT: corrected the sentence, I hope it makes sense in English...

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: caravaj Date: 11-03-2011, 11:24	@nemesys "Same as in Serie A I guess: when to clubs have the same points is the H2H points earned that decides, then the H2H goal difference." On Wikipedia a change is mentionned for the current year: "Rules for classification: 1st points; 2nd goal difference; 3rd number of goals scored." Is this a mistake ?

Author: nemesys
Date: 11-03-2011, 14:05

@caravaj

Italian Wikipedia

Anche in questa stagione, per la quinta volta consecutiva, a parità di punteggio la graduatoria finale è determinata in base alla classifica avulsa.

which means (sorry for the probably rough translation):

Also in this season, for the fifth consecutive time, in case of equal number of points (earned) the final ranking is decided by the points (earned) in head to head matches.

English Wikipedia (I believe you are talking about this page)

Rules for classification: 1st points; 2nd goal difference; 3rd number of goals scored.
...
Only applicable when the season is not finished

So yes, to make it easier you usually write down the ranking considering the goal difference as tie breaker, but I confirm you that at the end of the season head to head results decides, and that general goal difference never decided anything in Serie A.

And the head to head in regular season rule is only used since few years, because of the 20 clubs and too many matches in Serie A to allow to play after season matches; in fact Serie A historically always used after season head to head matches as tiebreaker:

Italian Wikipedia but just a list of post season tiebreaker matches, quite easy to understand.

(disclaimer: everything is as far as I and Italian Wikipedia know; if someone else have precise information about different rules, please let me know).

nemesys.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: caravaj Date: 14-03-2011, 11:37	Thank you very much, nemesys. I suppose english Wikipedia is not uptodate. By the way I don't think that the mention "Only applicable when the season is not finished" has anything to do with the rules for classification but rather with the irrelevant following sentence.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: BBP Date: 15-03-2011, 23:14	In Greece, Poland, Portugal and the USA HTH is also the first comparison if I remember well. At least a couple of years ago.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: biagio Date: 16-03-2011, 05:57	wow, i can't believe only a handful of nations use the h2h tiebreak! i guess for me that i lived in italy and usa h2h is "the norm"...

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: Todor Date: 16-03-2011, 09:17	HTH is the first tie-breaker in Bulgaria as well.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: philippe1968 Date: 20-03-2011, 17:23	And now Donetsk is qualified to european competition at 8 days before the end. (29 pts ahead 6th)

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: gogu Date: 03-04-2011, 23:40	In Portugal, Porto is champion and then qualified for Champions. Benfica is also already qualified for 3rd qualifying round of Champions. Guimarães plays the cup final against one of the two and it is qualified for Europa League.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: AlanK Date: 04-04-2011, 17:36	Real Madrid is also guaranteed a spot in either the CL 1 or CL 2 spot.

Author: nemesys
Date: 04-04-2011, 22:23

Real Madrid is also guaranteed a spot in either the CL 1 or CL 2 spot.
Since Real Madrid still could finish 4th in La Liga (in theory Valencia and Villareal could overtake Los Blancos), I guess that you mean that for Real Madrid it is already guaranteed a spot in the next CL, either the CLGS(1-3) or the CLNCQR(4); but not yet the CLGS for sure (also if, btw, this is of course really likely

).
nemesys.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: AlanK Date: 05-04-2011, 17:22	@ Nemesys: Sorry--my bad--Barsa is guaranteed CL 1 or CL 2; Real is guaranteed CL 1-4. I realized last night that I had blundered.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: nemesys Date: 13-04-2011, 13:51	@AlanK Well, don't be too sorry, you just predicted one week earlier... (with 22 points over Villareal and 7 matches left, Real Madrid is now sure to finish in the top 3 of La Liga). nemesys.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: nemesys Date: 17-04-2011, 17:38	Serie A: 1. AC Milan 71 7. Juventus 52 AC Milan qualified for European Football. (+19pts, 33/38 -> 5 matches to the end). nemesys.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: rmsg Date: 23-04-2011, 22:04	England: 1. Manchester United 34 games 73 pts 5. Tottenham 33 games 55 pts Manchester United qualified to CL 2011/2012

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: rmsg Date: 23-04-2011, 22:07	Germany: 1. Borussia Dortmund 31 games 69 pts 3. Hannover 31 games 57 pts Borussia Dortmund qualified for CL GS.

Re: Barsa already qualified for CL 2011-2012
Author: Overgame Date: 24-04-2011, 01:35	1. Milan 34 74 4. Lazio 34 60 Milan qualified for CLGS.