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| 1 European competition | |
| Author: Piet_agoras
Date: 29-11-2010, 15:24 | Hi, First of all, I made this proposal just for fun. I know it will never be accepted, but let's discuss. The numbers are the ranks of the associations. No teams from same association meet each-other before quarter-finals. Qualifying round 1 Seeded teams Unseeded teamsIf titleholder directly qualifies -> 3FP Qualifying round 2 Seeded teams Unseeded teams Qualifying round 3 Seeded teams Unseeded teams Group Stage 16 groups of 6 teams, Pots for the draws: Pot 1: 01-16 CHNo teams from same associations in the same group. Knock-out Phase Teams 1 and 2 from GS -> CL-KO (32 teams) Teams 3 and 4 from GS -> EL-KO (32 teams) Teams 5 and 6 from GS -> eliminated For the CL-KO Round of 32, the group-winners are seeded. For the EL-KO Round of 32, the 3th placed teams are seeded. Association-protection in Round of 32 and Round of 16. |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: nemesys
Date: 29-11-2010, 17:43 | As an academical talk, I understand what you try to achieve: not a bad idea in theory. Also because I believe myself that the actual EL GS have a quite low appeal. But I don't know if I would propose your same model. Btw, TH from QR1????  IMO either you give some real prestige to the TH (qualification without QRs), or you don't give anything. Just my opinion. nemesys. |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: Piet_agoras
Date: 01-12-2010, 14:04 | @nemesys TH-spotS need some finetuning, but that isn't what counts. More important is the concept, as you pointed out  |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: badgerboy
Date: 01-12-2010, 15:11 | I've written something fairly similar to this in the past - though with quite a lot of differences. First - I'd limit the "GS" to 64 teams. Second - I'd have more/most teams directly qualified. Third - it wouldn't actually be a "GS" as such but a cross between KO & a GS. I keep tweaking the numbers slightly but something like: 1-2 6 teams = 12 3-4 5 teams = 10 5-6 4 teams = 8 7-12 3 teams = 18 13-16 2 teams = 8 Total = 56 With that number of entries per country I'd expect the TH spot to come from their allocation. That would leave 8 spots for the remaining 36 Champions to fight over in qualifying. Instead of a standard GS there would be old-style 2-legged KO ties but with a "second chance" if you lose. Groups would be paired to avoid duplicate fixtures. For example: Group A MD 1&2: 1v4 2v3 - 1&3 win & play each other next. Group B MD 1&2: 5v8 6v7 - 5&6 win & play each other next. Group A MD 3&4: 1v3 2v4 1&2 win - 1 has 2 wins & goes through to next stage, 4 has 2 defeats & goes home. Group B MD 3&4: 5v6 7v8 - 6&8 win - 6 has 2 wins & goes through to next stage, 7 has 2 defeats & goes home. Groups A/D MD 5&6: 3v8 5v2 - this is basically the winner of the tie on MD1/2 who then lost on MD3/4 v the loser of the tie on MD1/2 who then won on MD3/4. The group pairing avoids a repeat of 2v3. This will probably be considered too complicated to ever be implemented but I prefer it to the current situation - where the outcome of a group can be influenced by the order of matches against the best team - who might rest players on MD5 or 6. This way everyone has their destiny in their own hands. You could repeat the above exercise to get from 32 to 16 or just go for a straight KO from then. I'd probably opt for straight KO. I'd keep the EL - but only as a straight KO cup - no group stage. |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: ferdi
Date: 01-12-2010, 18:12 Edited by: ferdi at: 01-12-2010, 19:45 | With this concept the group stage takes the character of an EC/WC qualification stage. ("Spain, Czech Republic, Scotland, Lithuania, Liechtenstein"). You certainly have a concept to pitch this proposal to the teams from the top countries... |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: Piet_agoras
Date: 02-12-2010, 10:07 Edited by: Piet_agoras at: 02-12-2010, 10:08 | @badgerboy, I saw your concept, but I think there are problems. If you lose 2 matches, you'll be out. So what is the use of being directly qualified? If you lose 2 matches in quali's you're also out... @Ferdi The WC/EC-qualifier look was something that I haven't tought of, but I like it. Then there is room for a bad match in GS. I'll edit the concept for the 2 TH's in the next post |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: Piet_agoras
Date: 02-12-2010, 10:45 Edited by: Piet_agoras at: 02-12-2010, 11:39 | The numbers are the ranks of the associations. No teams from same association meet each-other before quarter-finals. Qualifying round 1TH-spots grant an extra berth to the association of the TH. So if clubs from e.g. Spain win both KO's, the next year there will be 2 extra spots for Spain (8 in total). |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: badgerboy
Date: 02-12-2010, 19:23 | "@badgerboy, I saw your concept, but I think there are problems. If you lose 2 matches, you'll be out. So what is the use of being directly qualified? If you lose 2 matches in quali's you're also out..." I don't really understand your point. In qualifying - or a straight KO tournament - you are out if you lose one two-legged tie. Under this format in the "group stage" you are out if you lose two two-legged ties. |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: Piet_agoras
Date: 02-12-2010, 19:33 | @badgerboy sorry my mistake. Somewhere there was a 2 missing in my mind  |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: Cirdan
Date: 02-12-2010, 21:37 Edited by: Cirdan at: 02-12-2010, 21:41 | The absolute maximum you could get in the current setup is 8 matchdays before and 11 after the winter break (+ 3 rounds of qualification during summer break). You have 2 matchdays too many (at least). |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: badgerboy
Date: 03-12-2010, 11:27 | "The absolute maximum you could get in the current setup is 8 matchdays before and 11 after the winter break (+ 3 rounds of qualification during summer break). You have 2 matchdays too many (at least)." If you scrapped - or drastically reduced - qualification - you could incorporate the final qualification matchdays (from 17 August) into the main body of the competition. In addition there are two or three more "free" midweeks in the first half of the season. By "free" I mean not covered by international breaks. I guess they are currently used for midweek domestic league or cup games. In theory at least these could be swapped with dates later in the season if more pre-winter dates were needed for European games. That said - at the moment there are only 9 post-winter break matchdays (10 if you count the Finals & say they could be played in one week) & it would be much more difficult to add dates there. |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: putje
Date: 06-12-2010, 22:14 | 1/ I think I like this idea, but I have to think more over it. Negative are more games in july, EL even more second choise. Positive are more games, less useless games (in EL). 2/ I don't get the point of matchdays. Now we have 8 summer Qweeks; 8 autum group weeks (6+2) and 32 teams in EL spring KO. In the new sceme we need 6 summer Qweeks and 10 group weeks + 32 teams KO in spring. = Exactly the same number of weeks as today. |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: putje
Date: 11-12-2010, 22:32 Edited by: putje at: 12-12-2010, 00:07 | I worked a bid on this proposal, and I still don't know if this is better or worse than the actual system. I have the feeling that the team ranking will be of nearly no importance anymore. Only Q3 is totaly based on these rankings. In the other rounds the only decisif fact is wich position you had in your country. And the composition of the seed / non seed in Q2 and in pot 2 / 4 is so inequal, that a lot can depend on the draw. I made a little simulation and in Q2 you could have a Tottenham - Twente (Met each other in Ch L, and both stil in European footbal after the break). On the other side is a Vilnius - Dudelange an other possible tie in Q2. Quite a differance. 7 teams from pot 4 would not be strong enouf to pass trough Q2. And the composition of the pots for the 16 groups has the same effect. I have following figures (average / best / worst ranking) Pot 1 : 74 / 132 / 31 champions 1-15 Pot 2 : 22 / 63 / 6 CW 1-15 Pot 3 : 72 / 142 / 20 2+3 1-8 Pot 4 : 12 / 35 / 3 ch+CW 16-23 Pot 5 : 60 / 75 / 40 Q 1-16 Pot 6 : 26 / 37 / 20 Q 17-32 - Strongerst group possible : Barca, PSG, Manchester United, Hapoel Tel Aviv, Benfica, Besiktas (six ChL gr teams). - Weakest group possible : Anderlecht, Tavria, Cluj, Aelesund, Celtic, FC Zurich (no succesful Ch L group team). - Average group : Fenerbache, Mancester City, Bordeaux, Helsingborg, Fiorentina, Club Brugge. |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: ssrree
Date: 13-12-2010, 08:52 | I like Piet_Agoras idea.All teams together in GS,first and second goes to CL,third and fourth to EL,fifth and sixth are eliminated. With such sistem CL would be stronger then now and EL would stay on the same level.Also,96 teams would play in GS,so it would be more chances to play in the GS for litlle countries teams. |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: SirHenri
Date: 14-12-2010, 00:53 | Really nice System, I'd "give it a go" next Season :-D |
| Re: 1 European competition | |
| Author: bokassa77
Date: 28-12-2010, 03:06 | My suggestion for a competition would be as follows. Knockout competition 2 legs except Final. Co efficiency based on merit like the old co-eff before the group stages messed it up. 256 clubs in 1st round (32 seeded, 2xTH, 20xCH(1-20), 10xCW or 2nd(1-10) 128 ties - winners to 2nd round, losers eliminated seeding now ends. 2nd round 64 ties -winners to 3rd round, losers to UEFA cup r1 3rd round 32 ties - winners to 4th round, losers to UEFA cup r2 with 32 UEFA r1 winners 4th round 16 ties - winners to 5th round, losers to UEFA cup r3 with 32 UEFA r2 winners 5th round 8 ties - winners to QF, losers to UEFA cup r4 with 24 UEFA r3 winners At this point the winter break occurs with 40 teams left (8 in EC, 32 in UEFA) In february 2 rounds of UEFA cup are played (r4-5)leaving only QF,SF & FINALS to be played. Co-efficiency points are as follows 2pts for win, 1pt for draw. Bonus points QF 2pts EC, 1pt UEFA SF 2pts EC, 1pt UEFA F 2pts EC, 1pt UEFA (All cumulative i.e. Runner up in EC gets 6BP) Team Breakdown 3 Fair Play 2 Title Holders 1 Cup winner of Liechtenstein (not included in Co-eff) 8 teams from countries 1-4 7 teams from countries 5-8 6 teams from countries 9-14 5 teams from countries 15-20 4 teams from countries 21-48 3 teams from countries 49-52 |