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Battle for 6
Author: Metallica Date: 23-06-2010, 15:54	Ukraine, Russia and Portugal would start this season with 33.8, 33.1 and 31.5 pts.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: ELECTRIC Date: 09-07-2010, 10:06	Yes, I would include Netherland and 6-10 places at the end of the season will be: Portugal, Russia, The Dutch,Ukraine I hope I am completelly wrong, though....

Author: Lusankya
Date: 15-07-2010, 10:01

6. Russia: 35.124

Teams:

CL1=Rubin Kazan 21.758 (ch/GS) (pot 4)
CL2=Spartak Moscow 33.758 (ch/GS) (pot 4)
CL3=Zenit St. Petersburg 61.258 (ch/Q3) (seeded in CL PO, pot 3 in CL GS)
EL1=Lokomotiv Moscow 25.758 (eu/Q4) (pot 3)
EL2=CSKA Moscow 66.758 (eu/Q4) (pot 1)
LC=Sibir Novosibirsk 8.758 (eu/Q3) (unseeded in ELPO)

7. Ukraine: 34.466

Teams:
CL1=Shakhtar Donetsk 73.910 (ch/GS) (pot 2)
CL2=Dinamo Kiev 42.910 (ch/Q3) (unseeded in CLPO, pot 2 in ELGS)
CW=Tavria Simferopol 7.910 (eu/Q4) (unseeded)
EL2=Metalist Kharkiv 25.410 (eu/Q4) (pot 3)
EL3=Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk 14.910 (eu/Q3) (pot 4)
EL4=Karpaty Lviv 7.910 (eu/Q2) (unseeded in EL PO)

8. Portugal: 33.596

Teams:

CL1=Benfica 72.659 (ch/GS) (pot 2)
CL2=Sporting Braga 39.659 (ch/Q3) (unseeded in CLPO, pot 2 in ELGS)
CW=FC Porto 76.659 (eu/Q4) (pot 1)
EL2=Sporting CP Lisbon 57.659 (eu/Q3) (pot 1)
EL3=Maritimo Funchal 7.659 (eu/Q2) (unseeded in EL PO)

9. Turkey: 31.250

Teams:

CL1=Bursaspor 6.890 (ch/GS) (pot 4)
CL2=Fenerbahçe 54.890 (ch/Q3) (unseeded in CLPO, pot 1 in ELGS)
CW=Trabzonspor 10.390 (eu/Q4) (unseeded)
EL2=Galatasaray 43.890 (eu/Q3) (pot 2)
EL3=Besiktas 33.890 (eu/Q2) (pot 2)

Some pot positions aren't final.

I think Portugal has the best chances to reach the 6th rank this season. 4 out of 5 teams are well ranked and in favored pots.
Russia has currently only one team in a good pot, but Zenit has good chances to reach the second pot and Spartak could end in the 3rd pot. Ukraine has 6 teams and only 2 of them are highly ranked, the other 4 are in danger to get very hard groups.
Turkey only has outsider chances, but 3 out of their 5 teams are seeded in pot 1 or pot 2 and could get quite some points (but usually at least one of those 3 Istanbul clubs fails).

I think Netherlands is too far behind, 5.5 points is quite a lot.

Author: bbi
Date: 15-07-2010, 12:35

I think it will be a battle between Portugal and Russia. I'dd expect for Portugal to do more points, but not sure if it will be enough. I am not sure what Porto will do in EL. Will they treat with the same disrespect that other CL regulars do? Than they might actually bring less points than they usually get from CL. Anyway for me it's to close to call, at least I'll wait to see the groups. Turkey is to far away but I can see them closeing the distance this year and will have more teams battleing for this spot next year.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Metallica Date: 15-07-2010, 23:28	bbi where are you hid the Ukraine?

Re: Battle for 6
Author: drunvalo Date: 15-07-2010, 23:53	Ukraine is far behind)

Re: Battle for 6
Author: bbi Date: 16-07-2010, 12:46 Edited by: bbi at: 16-07-2010, 12:47	Ukraine is still in the race unlike Turkey, but I don't think you have many chances, because you have 6 teams and also because you are closer to Portugal than Russia is. Only if the unseeded teams make a surprise things could change, let's see the draws and we may change some predictions.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Metallica Date: 16-07-2010, 21:55	Very successfull draw for Ukraine Dnipro-Spartak (SRB) / Diferdanzh Karpaty -Zestafoni (GEO) / Dukla (SLV) Dynamo-Ghent

Re: Battle for 6
Author: kleber Date: 16-07-2010, 23:40	Yeah....very good indeed they can make 6 wins from 6 games. Russia not too bad Portugal bad for braga and let's see maritimo in ireland.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: drunvalo Date: 17-07-2010, 01:10 Edited by: drunvalo at: 17-07-2010, 01:11	It's allmost nothing.Last year was the same. And then was a disaster in play-off. So the most important thing is a luck in play-off and to reach the group stage.

Author: Dimmer
Date: 17-07-2010, 06:37

It seems Russia has slightly better position taking into account:

1)Higher chances of Zenit to get CL group stage comparing with Braga and Dinamo Kiew (both because of seeded status in R4 and strength + Braga was unlucky with draw (Celtic).
It may happen that Russia will have 3 team in CL and Portugal and Ukraine - only 1. With last-year regulation with big bonuses in CL this gives some advantage.
2)If we eliminate unseeded teams (Sibir, Maritimo, Tavria, Karpaty) we get Russia (5/6), Portugal (4/5), Ukraine (4/6). 5/6 is the highest ratio!
3) Add current little advantage of Russia.
4) I agree with doubts on Porto perfomance in EL.

But its too early to make conclusions. QR4 as always will be decisive.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: uartem Date: 17-07-2010, 13:02	Dynamo Kiev has better chances than any club for Russia to reach any stage in a tournament taking into account any conditions.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Dimmer Date: 18-07-2010, 06:20 Edited by: Dimmer at: 18-07-2010, 09:39	uartem 6/21/2010 Dinamo K - Zenit 1:3 (friendly) Zenit won 6 games in a row in Russian championat and looks very impressive.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: drunvalo Date: 18-07-2010, 11:18	Dimmer, don't you see? He is a instigator. You never prove him anything.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: uartem Date: 18-07-2010, 12:05	I can understand and analyse any possibilities in the game. Zenit is in the middle of the season in Russia, while Dynamo was is in the middle of summer break. Traditionally, Dynamo does a lot of physical work this time so the players can hardly move. The best form will be reached in September by Dynamo and then the season for Kiev will start.

Author: Crente
Date: 19-07-2010, 15:58

Portugal has good chances.
With only 5 teams, will have (most likely) one "average" team in CL group stage and 3 "good" teams in EL group stage. (I do not expect much from Marítimo.)
I think Benfica, Porto and Sporting will reach last 16 in their competitions. If one of these teams (Benfica, I hope) has a very good european season, 6th place may be portuguese.
But there are still to many matches to play.

Author: rukoz
Date: 23-07-2010, 11:18

I think Turkey will take that 6th place. They have 1 new team (bursaspor) with very low UEFA point, but will have 6 CL group game in hand.

Other 4 team, 3 of them already wellknown in European Football, with Fenerbahce seeded in 3rd QR of CL, should have no prob facing Young Boys. If Fener lost in CL play-off, they will go direct into EL group stage, where they got 6 game in hand. Other 2 are Besiktas, already win in 2nd QR of EL, & Galatasaray. Both just been handed a very easy opponent in 3rd QR of EL. The last team from Turkey is Trabzonspor, that also have good history in Europe, already in play-off of EL...

I think at least 4 out of 5 Turkish teams will go tru into group stage either in CL/EL due to seeding. Only Trabzonspor will hope for 'nice' draw for EL play-off due to unseeded.

So, Turkey most probably will take that 6th place!

Author: Overgame
Date: 23-07-2010, 11:58

And now we have a romanian type prediction for Turkey !!!!!!

Boy, turkey is already FOUR point behind the 6th, 2 points behind Portugal who has 5 teams too, and taken one by one, they are stronger than the turkish one.

I hate when the fans start stupid predictions about how their own country is strong and how their teams will crush everything. To be 6th, Turkey needs at least .... 12 coefficient points. And their best is lower than 10 with 4 teams, no comment.

Author: Dimmer
Date: 25-07-2010, 08:26
Edited by: Dimmer
at: 25-07-2010, 08:33

rukoz is partly right - Turkey was lucky to get unseeded Buraspor in CL GS directly. Over last several years Turkey played with only 3 'big' teams, all unseeded teams were quickly eliminated. At now, there is chance for Buraspor to be forth seeded for next seasons (if they manage to take 3-4 points in CL and get in ECups for next season), which is important for battle for 6th place in next season. But in 10/11 chances for 6th place are low, I guess in the best case they will fight for 8th with the worst performer of Russia/Ukraine/Portugal.

Author: mulligan
Date: 25-07-2010, 13:29

Dimmer and rukoz

Please be realistic in your opinions.. You say all unseeded teams eliminated so early in the past.. What makes you think that the things would be different this year? I mean do you really trust Trabzon and Bursa?? I dont think so.. And with the stupid big three (Turkish people always expect much from them and they are always a source of dissappointment, especially this year forget about Galatasaray) dont think Turkey could even protect the 9th spot against Netherlands.

Author: bbi
Date: 25-07-2010, 15:58

mulligan are you even sure you read what Dimmer said. He has a very valid point. Bursaspor is qualified in CL grup stage. Which means they will get 4 points. If they are not totally catastrophic in the group stage they could easily earn at least 3 - 4 points more, which would place them among the EL playoffs seeded teams. Look at other similar examples like Unirea and CFR which earn enough points to be seeded thanks to a direct qualification to CL group stage. Of course they don't have real chances this year but at least he didn't said anything like this.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: uartem Date: 25-07-2010, 20:00	Though I am from Ukraine, I think Portugal has best chance. However, Russia and Ukraine are in the race for this season.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: ELECTRIC Date: 29-07-2010, 16:24	As for Ukraine, I am sticked to the opinion that in the long term it should be just below top ten, place 11-14, with lucky jumps as we can follow now, or terrible downfalls even to place 20. And with almost 20% decrease in population (appx. 0,4-0,5 mln a year) I would not be much optimistic.

Author: drunvalo
Date: 29-07-2010, 17:43
Edited by: drunvalo
at: 29-07-2010, 17:46

to electric

I think you are far from ukrainian reality. Depopulation now is much lower(0.2 last year and it was still worse then potentially because of crisis)I think when a bad economic situation pass the decrease of people will stop.
As to ukrainian teams. We steady was afloat within 11-15 spots for 10 years. And now as for me our teams are definitely better. Though I agree that we will slip down most probably.

P.S. And right now Dnipro has conceded a goal)

Author: ELECTRIC
Date: 30-07-2010, 15:58

to drunvalo:
as for demography problems: I am maybe not enough pessimistic, AIDS, drugs and all this "civilization killers" stuff just getting stronger in Ukraine and it will have its impact in next 20-30 years.
Yet, it is in whole Europe ( maybe with exception of UK) all are concerned about aging of population, no demographic growth. Even here in CZ, where there was some effect of Husak`s children, strong generation of 70`s but there was not enough baby boom these times ( and still, the government was not prepared, and there are no places in kindergartens etc.
As for the strength of Ukrainian teams there is no doubt, all got stronger, I remember Shachtar playing Slavia and it was only miracle that helped to pass them, and it was with the great coach Procopenko, and before Roda was simply impossible to overcome.
PS: But Spartak seems to be stronger then Bellinzona so no wonder Dnipro lost

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Overgame Date: 04-08-2010, 23:02	@rukoz : sorry, but AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I like when someone says "my country will rock everything" and 1-2 week(s) later the pitch tells us how wrong you were :p

Re: Battle for 6
Author: drunvalo Date: 05-08-2010, 00:16	to Overgame It's nothing lost yet. Still Fener can gain many points in LE.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Overgame Date: 05-08-2010, 00:39	Erm, with the new 4 bonus points, getting "more points in EL" means going really far, and the 6th place is now even further (title of the topic). Yes, nothing is lost, last year Russia lost 4 teams before the GS buyt managed to save the 6th spot. But i can't be confident when your 2nd team lost vs a "newbie". And when Galatasaray was unable to win at home vs OFK Belgrade ....

Re: Battle for 6
Author: psychoTurk Date: 05-08-2010, 23:00	but at away,5-1

Re: Battle for 6
Author: drunvalo Date: 06-08-2010, 14:33 Edited by: drunvalo at: 06-08-2010, 14:39	Very bad draw for the ukrainian teams. Bayer - Tavriya Galatasaray - Karpaty Omonia - Metalist Dnipro - Leh Only Dk have got a good opponent And on the other hand Portugal have got very pleasant adversaries.All 5 can get through. It cemented their advantage over contenders.

Author: ELECTRIC
Date: 06-08-2010, 14:49

Well, in terms of financial benefits in case of Dinamo getting into CL group stage you can excuse all bad luck for Tavria, Dnipro, Metalist and Karpaty, Even more, those are the teams, that you get experience, And if one want to be in top ten country ranking, good teams should be just attractive opponents.
Anyway, I would consider this season extra successful if Ukraine can get the same points as last one.
Lokk at our partners in Euro 2012, they lost almost all teams before half of our even started playing. By the way, I don`t understand it, as I thought that my years (30-33) in Poland should be really success and a lot of talented players, but in reality it looks like a lost dekade???

Re: Battle for 6
Author: kleber Date: 07-08-2010, 08:17	Lol where the hell on eath did Metalist and Dnipro got bad draws? Tavria and karpaty had but not those two. Great draw for Russia it would had been perfect if it was Sibir.-bate,maritimo-p.s.v. Russia will have 5 clubs in the group stage. Ukraine four....Portugal 4 or 5...but i have some doubts about Sporting. Great fight till the end...Portugal was lucky with maritimo draw no doubt.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Metallica Date: 07-08-2010, 09:27	Normal draw for Ukraine Bayer-Tavria 8515 Galatasaray-Karpaty 6535 Omonia-Metalist 2575 Dnipro-Lech 7030

Author: drunvalo
Date: 07-08-2010, 12:40
Edited by: drunvalo
at: 07-08-2010, 12:50

Omonia and Leh are champions.And by the way the odds that Omonia ousts Metallist are higher - 1.55 vs 2.3(bwin). So bookies think that Omonia is a FAVORITE. Even Dnipro isn't clear winner, bets are like DK vs Ajax.
And it's easy draw? Only 2 teams are predicted to pass through and at that their chances are like 55/45.
Guys are you kidding?Or you know nothing about football.
And kleber did you fall from the Moon?

Author: Dimmer
Date: 07-08-2010, 13:00

Prediction for PO round
Ukraine 4,5 /6 = 0,75
Dinamo Kiev 1 (out in EL) + Dnipro 1,5 + Metallist 1,5 + Karpaty 0,5 + Tavria 0
Russia 9/6 = 1,5
Zenit 1,5+4 + CSKA 1,5 + Lokomotiv 2 + Sibir 0
Portugal 5/5 = 1,0
Braga 0,5 + Porto 2 + Sporting 1,5 + Maritimo 1,0 (out)

Not very good draw for Ukraine. Omonia and even Lech could deliver some problems. I would say they will rather lose 3 teams than 1. But even with 4 team out of 6 it will be all the harder to resist Portugal and Russia. If Dinamo pass Ajax this will only let Ukraine to stay in the race.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: kleber Date: 07-08-2010, 13:36	The problem for Russia is that due to the fog cska and loko will play their home games in krasnodar.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Metallica Date: 07-08-2010, 13:47	Ukraine wrestle for 6 Our hyper-grants(Dynamo and one of the most favorites of CL - Shakhtar Donetsk) will take not less than Zenit, CSKA, Rubin and Porto, Benfica, with Sporting combined respectively ... Metal with Dnipro shot to the head finish you off the remaining fighters)

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Overgame Date: 07-08-2010, 20:23	"Our hyper-grants(Dynamo and one of the most favorites of CL - Shakhtar Donetsk) will take not less than Zenit, CSKA, Rubin and Porto, Benfica, with Sporting combined respectively" ROFLMAO, you're the son of retroactive and Malko ? :p D. Kiev and Shaktar, the 2 teams who cannot pas the CLGS for years, will score more than 3 teams who are almost never out before january ? :p

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Metallica Date: 07-08-2010, 21:35	romanians friend Shakhtar in 2 pot since this year

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Metallica Date: 08-08-2010, 09:14	Galatasaray good team, but if only the Turks were not be Turks ... nerve, nut,spineless ... if Karpaty score first the chances will be as minimum 50 to 50 ... against the Turks technically, we opposable powerful physical command discipline, as well handed down by the ball and 11 people in his own penalty during 90 minutes, dedication and concentration of 100%.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: psychoTurk Date: 09-08-2010, 00:02	@Metallica wake up,it was nice dream :d

Re: Battle for 6
Author: drunvalo Date: 09-08-2010, 01:19	to psychoTurk World is so cruel.Let him to fancy)

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Metallica Date: 09-08-2010, 09:00	@psychoTurk Karpaty will be second "Young Boys" for you...hihi @drunvalo ×óäîâà ãðà íåìàº ñë³â - Êàðïàòè Ëüâ³â Êàðïàòè Ëüâ³â

Re: Battle for 6
Author: vikteam Date: 18-08-2010, 16:33	In this very tight race, every single thing can make difference. For Russia it will be interesting and possibly crucial if Zenit will climb (if they qualify) to pot 2 and Spartak into pot 3 in CL. Also I am looking forward to some head-to-head games, hopefully already on the group stage.

Author: daggy
Date: 19-08-2010, 11:26

6 Ukraine 35.716
7 Russia 35.707
8 Portugal 35.196

Braga's win last night can very well change everything. Portuguese teams have done amazing so far, and if Braga qualifies for CL or Maritimo advances to EL group stages then there will be little doubt that Portugal will get 6th place.

Last season Portugal did 10.000 in coef points with Braga getting knocked out very early without making any coef points. I can't see portuguese teams do less than last season, although it could happen.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: vikteam Date: 19-08-2010, 12:31	If Braga qualify it means Zenit gets into pot 2 of CLGS

Re: Battle for 6
Author: daggy Date: 19-08-2010, 12:49	It also means that Braga moves up to pot 3.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Joshuacht Date: 19-08-2010, 16:12	But also Sibir Novosibirsk win this afternoon can change everything....

Re: Battle for 6
Author: kleber Date: 19-08-2010, 22:34 Edited by: kleber at: 19-08-2010, 22:35	Awful for Ukraine Dnipro defeat. On other hand Karpaty can make the group stage now,2-2 in turkey. Normal result in metalist,won in cyprus, and Tavria,lose at leverkusen. Russia great result in sibir,cska already qualified. Loko awful in lausanne still make a point and should go trough. Portugal lost Maritimo today and now Sporting is losing at ht. Porto already in the group stage.

Author: vikteam
Date: 19-08-2010, 23:02

Prediction
Portugal - 3 (maybe 4) clubs in GS out of 5
Russia - 5 (maybe 6) clubs in GS out of 6
Ukraine - 3 (maybe 4) clubs in GS out of 6

Sibir currently holds last place in Russian championship with only two games won out of 17, home win against PSV is sensational, but I don't think it will make any difference for the rating in the end, even if they make another sensation in Eindhoven. Same story with Karpaty.
But if Sporting really out this can be significant for the topic.

In any case looks like Portugal vs Russia tie won't be decided till spring knockout stage. Ukraine is not completely out yet, but I think after the group stage they will be quite far behind. I agree Portugal can get at least 10 points, but I think 10 points won't be enough to hold 6th spot this season.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: kleber Date: 19-08-2010, 23:25	Sporting-Brondby 0-2

Re: Battle for 6
Author: vikteam Date: 19-08-2010, 23:41	Yup, seems like Sporting Braga will substitute Sporting Lisbon this year. Last year Sporting Lisbon made 14 points for Portugal.

Author: Dimmer
Date: 20-08-2010, 12:50

Now I can already say that for the moment Russia is a clear favorite, but things may yet reverse on next week.
Russia: 4 teams in groups for sure + Lokomotiv highly likely + Sibir will fight with PSV = 5 teams the most probably. Zenit should pass Auxerre which will be good.
Portugal: Maritimo almost out, Sporting is needed to score twice in Denmark - it's a heavy blow. Central scenario - only 3 teams, Braga in EL.
Ukraine: Dinamo in EL. Metallist will pass. Tavria out. Dnipro and Karpaty - one of them will be eliminated = 4 teams and fight with Portugal for 7th place.
Turkey is out of the race.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: drunvalo Date: 20-08-2010, 14:20	It's too early to write out turks. Still it can be 5 teams in the group stage. And Gala with Fener have 50/50 chance at least.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Dimmer Date: 20-08-2010, 19:15 Edited by: Dimmer at: 20-08-2010, 19:35	to drunvalo I agree. But recent performance speaks they have clear problems. Galata - 2 home draws 2:2 again prove they are on the declining path. Fener - 3 games in Europe and 0 wins. Bursapor has all chances to be 4th in CL group, as Besiktas a year ago. Trabzon will be out, no doubts.

Author: amirbachar
Date: 25-08-2010, 23:54

The elimination of Zenit today was actually good for Russian coefficients:
If they lost 2:1 and qualified (4 points), in a realistic scenario would have make 3 wins and 1 draw (7 points), and then qualify for 2nd round (5 points) and get one draw there (1 point) - a total of 17 points.
In EL, in a realistic scenario (even though they can go further), they would make 4 wins and 1 draw (9 points), then in R32 they would make 1 win a 1 draw (3 points), then in R16 a win and a loss and qualify (2 points + 1 bonus), and in the QF they would make a win and a loss (2 points) and be eliminated - a total of 17 points as well.

HOWEVER, their loss raised Spartak to pot 3. That could be worth a lot of points, so their loss was definitely good for Russian Rankings!

Re: Battle for 6
Author: kleber Date: 26-08-2010, 12:27	It is not just a matter of points. What happen yesterday shows that Zenit sucks,benfica or porto would never be eliminated by Auxerre.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: amirbachar Date: 26-08-2010, 16:49	The battle for 6 is just a matter of points...

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Lusankya Date: 26-08-2010, 17:28	He probably means, that Zenit is so bad, that they won't get many points in the EL.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: kleber Date: 26-08-2010, 20:52 Edited by: kleber at: 26-08-2010, 20:53	Well it is over. Portugal will get sixth place. Brondby is such a piece of shit,going all way to front,amateurs. they needed to defend not attack. Worst only amateur lokomotiv...who is pure garbage.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: schlumpy Date: 26-08-2010, 21:09	I guess nobody was expecting that sporting would turn 0-2 to 3-2. This changes a lot things in the ranks. Only a catastrophe would leave portugal outside 6th or 7th place

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Metallica Date: 26-08-2010, 22:44	Óêðàèíà âîçüì?ò 6 ìåñòî, ïîòîìó ÷òî ó íàñ åñòü ÊÀÐÏÀÒÛ!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Overgame Date: 26-08-2010, 22:53	amirbachar : ROFLMAO :p 4 wins and 1 draw :p Why not 6 wins while you're at it ? Don't forget this : Zenit will play the last game away, and if they're qualified, they will probably not win it :p And a bad draw in GS could kick their ass really fast.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: this_is_football Date: 26-08-2010, 23:33	Out of the countries from sixth to eleventh, Portugal simply have less teams which are unable to compete at European level than the other countries have, and that is why they are the nation which deserves sixth place, and not the other nations (Russia, Ukraine, Turkey and so on).

Author: badgerboy
Date: 27-08-2010, 00:09
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 27-08-2010, 00:10

"Out of the countries from sixth to eleventh, Portugal simply have less teams which are unable to compete at European level than the other countries have, and that is why they are the nation which deserves sixth place, and not the other nations (Russia, Ukraine, Turkey and so on)".

I'm not sure that's true.

Taking your statement as it's written first: Portugal probably have about 12 teams in their top flight that are unable to compete at a European level (if competing means getting to a group stage & getting a reasonable number of points once they get there).

The ones that can are: Porto, Benfica, Sporting & Braga. I know in theory you could add Boavista - but they had many problems since they played in Europe & did so well. The other top flight teams that played in Europe recently: Nacional, Maritimo, Vitoria - I don't see as any more competitive than the sub-top teams in the other countries.

Russia has plenty of teams that (on paper at least) should be competitive in Europe. Zenit & CSKA both won trophies recently - Rubin came from pretty much nowhere a few years back. And Spartak & Lokomotiv have been reasonably successful in the past decade & still qualify fairly regularly.

Ukraine has a dominant "big two" but Dnipro got through the EL groups some years back, Metalist reached a QF & now Karpaty eliminated Galatasaray.

I'd say the reason Portugal is in a good position for 6th again is that their top teams (Porto, Benfica & Sporting now subsidised by Braga) are more consistent than the top teams of the other countries.

These countries fail to keep up the challenge for the higher places not because their next teams are weaker but because every so often (too often) their big teams blow it. See Turkey this year (Gala & Fener). All the top Russian teams have had at least one big failure at an early stage (this year isn't Lokomotiv's first) etc. etc.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: mulligan Date: 27-08-2010, 00:42	Soo nooow Turkey is really out of Europe at least for 5 years. Congratulations to Fener and Gala.. What magnificient teams!!

Author: kleber
Date: 27-08-2010, 01:30
Edited by: kleber
at: 27-08-2010, 01:32

Well Russia had the sixth place for 3 years,not bad.
Could had long more but last year only two teans survive for september,
This year two already left a big lost in loko.
This was a shameful week for Russia...Great for Portugal.
Bad for ukraine even with Karpaty qual.

Sporting qual makes all the difference.

So in 2012 Portugal will have sixth place let's see for how long.
Next year 6 teams in europe again.

for me next curiosity can russia at the third attempt have 3 clubs in the cl?

Author: Ricardo
Date: 27-08-2010, 10:37

In the long term also Holland has a couple of teams that can do pretty ok in the competitions. I think that midlevel teams of Holland are better as the mid table temas of Portugal. And, like badgerboy says, it's more the top-teams that make the difference. Maybe PSV is pretty consistent, but Ajax not and further there is Twente, AZ, Utrecht, Feyenoord en Heerenveen. OK the last 2 not very good for the last few years.

Look at Sporting, how many points and qualifications they won in the last minutes in last and this season. And look at Twente, Heerenveen, AZ, how many points and qualifications they lost in the last minutes. The differences are not that big.
I hope Holland will be able to challenge spot 6 again soon, but not the coming 2 years. Ajax and Twente have drawn 2 terrible groups, hardly could have been worse. If they don't become 4th I would see it as a bonus. I hope EL draw will be better for Dutch teams.

I guess top-9 is pretty clear then, with Portugal, Russia, Ukraine and Holland in spots 6-9.
But there is always danger of Greece and Turkey interfering.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: kleber Date: 27-08-2010, 14:03	Well looking at the draw of the europa league Portugal and Russia with great draws Sporting the essiest followed by Zenit,Porto and Cska As for UKRAINE dynamo with the best draw of the night. Average for Metalist....very difficult for Karpaty.

Author: daggy
Date: 27-08-2010, 16:50

Portugal now 80% sure to get 6th place in the end.

Portuguese teams have easier groups than Russian and Ukranian teams:
- Porto and Sporting should go through 1st place in their EL groups.
- Benfica needs to improve in order to qualify for CL's next round, but they should at least be in european competitions after the group stage, CL or EL.
- Braga has a very strong team right now, stronger than Benfica and Sporting. they will fight for 2nd place of the group. They should at least qualify for EL.

Another advantage is that while Portugal, Russia and Ukrania have 4 teams, every point Portugal makes is only divided by 5, while for the other two it's split by 6.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Ricardo Date: 27-08-2010, 17:02	make that 95% Portugal had such a lucky draw (again?), unbelievable. If they won't make it 6th now, they really don't belong there. Unfortunately they will gather such easy points now that this will hep them for 5 years....

Re: Battle for 6
Author: kleber Date: 27-08-2010, 17:05 Edited by: kleber at: 27-08-2010, 17:06	Braga is so overated...lol. a team who was eliminated by elfsborg last year...give me a break. Celtic is a dead club and Sevilha have no coach. Arsenal will destroy Braga in the first game...Shakhtar will get second place. Braga and Parizan to fight for the third place.

Author: om44
Date: 27-08-2010, 20:57

@kleber
It's sooooo obvious you hate Portugal

However I agree on the fact that eliminating Celtic doesn't show anything. But Sevilla !! They were huge favorites and have a great team !
And yes, Braga was eliminated before EL GS last year, but every team has bad years (look at zenit last year !)
So, yes, Braga can be trashed by Arsenal at the Emirates(like they did twice with Porto) but I really think they can beat shaktar, at least in Portugal.

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Overgame Date: 27-08-2010, 22:20	Shaktar ? The "OMG WE ARE 3RD EVERY YEAR" team ? ROFLMAO

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Metallica Date: 27-08-2010, 23:31	overgame "OMG WE ARE IN 4 POT EVERY YEAR"

Re: Battle for 6
Author: Cirdan Date: 28-08-2010, 02:15 Edited by: Cirdan at: 28-08-2010, 02:16	Shakhtar failed vs Sporting just 2 years ago... is Braga worse? Don't know, wouldn't bet on it, especially considering how Sporting did in 2nd round. Arsenal will almost certainly win that group, 2nd place will be interesting. And after Thursday, Portugal pretty much has it in their hands. Would be a huge surprise if they don't make it.