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Author: gderoo
Date: 11-03-2010, 09:38

What I just noticed yesterday is the difference in coefficient points between top ranked countries on spot 1-5 and number 6 - x countries
You can see here that for years to come the european competitions will be dominated by the top 5 countries for decades to come. IMO the bonus qoutation should change. The top 5 start every season with at least 2.000 points. For instance a system like: win against stronger opponent country : 3 and a draw: 1,5 for the stronger country: a win results in 2 points and a draw in 1 as is.
As everything stays like it is top 5 countries dominate the CL and
lower ranked countries must compete in EL like forever.
what is your opinion?

Re: Difference in points between 1-5 and 6 - x
Author: executor Date: 11-03-2010, 09:45	Your proposing and ELO-type ranking. It has been discussed here many times and we reached the conclusion that, although it would seem fairer, it will also be very complicated to implement.

Author: hamlett
Date: 11-03-2010, 10:59
Edited by: hamlett
at: 11-03-2010, 11:01

Well, all 1-5 teams dominated their opponent in CL - Q4.

In group stage, from 1-5 countries, 13 teams out of 18 qualified (70 %), while only 3 teams out of 14 (20 %) from 6-x countries did qualify.

Among those 3 remaining teams, Porto is already out, CSKA got a 1-1 and Olympiacos a 0-1 at home. No team from 6-x countries won their group stage.

In EL-R16, 10 teams out of 16 come from 1-5 countries. They were only 15 out of 32 in EL-R32 (67 % qualified, to be compared with 35 % from 6-x contries).

Notice that Russia also started the season with 2 pts, is right now only 16th with 5.500 pts, and will certainly end up behind Austria, who had no bonus pt at all, and reached 9.375 pts.

So, I don't really see the point. Bonus points are there to compensate the harder task of playing CL - GS (for instance, Donetsk had no bonus pt and ended up eliminated in EL-R32 with 13 pts, while Kazan had 4 bonus pts, and is right now qualified for EL-R16 with only 12 pts).

Author: badgerboy
Date: 11-03-2010, 13:22

I don't really get the point.

Changing the coefficient system wont suddenly make teams from the top five countries worse at football.

It might create more early meetings between these teams so they eliminate each other & weaker teams get further before getting kicked out but I don't see much point in that.

"In group stage, from 1-5 countries, 13 teams out of 18 qualified (70 %), while only 3 teams out of 14 (20 %) from 6-x countries did qualify".

And in fact the dominance is even greater than these numbers imply. Juventus, Marseille & Liverpool all finished 3rd in their groups behind other "big five" teams.

Only Porto & CSKA actually managed to eliminate (or indeed finish ahead of in their group) a "big 5" team. For Porto this hardly constitutes a surprise as they are the one team outside the big 5 who could reasonably "expect" to reach the last 16 each year based on recent history.

Re: Difference in points between 1-5 and 6 - x
Author: amirbachar Date: 11-03-2010, 21:57	I guess Porto can't expect to reach the last 16 next year...

Author: Wak
Date: 11-03-2010, 23:48

gderoo, I don't think that the leagues' 1-5 results are overrated. They are all doing a better season compared to Russia and Ukraine and Portugal and... so on.

Those 5 countries represents a mix of economical, demographical, urbanized powers.

Now if you want to talk about the general level of a championship, of course we could have a long, very long debate. But we lack data!

The International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS) has its own world ranking. Argentina and Brazil are often among the Top3 or Top5. And they didn't wait to put SerieA down to 5th place.