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Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: playtony Date: 29-10-2009, 21:18	UEFA punished Dinamo Zagreb with taking them away 3 points they won in Europa League, and they have to play next 2 matches with empty stadium. Question is, what about they ranking, are they going to lose 2 points as well?

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: amirbachar Date: 29-10-2009, 21:48	I think they will keep the points.

Author: dzomba
Date: 29-10-2009, 21:59

Wow, this is first info for me. I have to check comments on Croatian websites ...

I'll rather believe they will lose two coefficient points too. But do not care about them. I wonder will Croatia as a country also lose 2 coefficient points, i'm affraid they will.

I have to admit, i'm glad. Since nobody here is taking any action, Uefa has to. They make incidents in almost every bigger game. They deserve it.

I suppose this punishment is for incidents in Romania ? It was absolute shame.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: executor Date: 29-10-2009, 22:33	What points??? Those with Timişoara? And our club gets them? I never heard of that before! And there's nothing in our press.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: playtony Date: 29-10-2009, 22:37	Not those points against Timisoara, so the result remains. They are just penalized with minus 3 points.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: executor Date: 29-10-2009, 22:40	Now I see on uefa.com... Too bad, Timişoara really needed those points. This way, Ajax and Anderlecht are 99% qualified...

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: ssrree Date: 29-10-2009, 22:46	Hooligans from Zagreb allways makes problems around and I think Dinamo deserved a punishment!Club has to fight against hooligans!

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: Ricardo Date: 30-10-2009, 01:19	The Mayor of Masterdam was just recently in the news (this morning or yesterday). He said that Zagreb should be punished for their behaviour in Amsterdam: "The Zagreb fans should not be allowed to go to away matches" I am not sure what happened in Amsterdam, but this was only punishment for Timisoara, will a punishment for the MAsterdam match still follow?

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: JPV Date: 30-10-2009, 08:51	I guess the troubles in Amsterdam were only pre- & post-match. Timisoara had in-match problems. For UEFA, that's a big difference, although i think clubs should be punished if these problems keep on happening. (in dutch): http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/13/AJAX/article/detail/265296/2009/10/22/Tiental len-supporters-opgepakt-in-Amsterdam.dhtml

Author: Pointer
Date: 31-10-2009, 09:46

I do not think it is fair to punish club for fan behavior abroad, clubs do not control ayone who travel to the game, that is police business.
But I am not surprised at all what happened to Dinamo
JPV at the stadium there was no any problems, just pre-match problems, so that makes these even more unfair.
But UEFA has double criteria’s for some clubs, to give you good example at the beginning of season on qualification for UEFA Champions League 3rd round Red Bull Salzburg fans hit the Dinamo player with the bottle, and the bottle rebounded any hit referee’s head and maked him blooded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nER8Vq-Pko8
Scroll to 6:10. The incident was during the game
So it had to be 0:3 in Dinamo’s way,
but in UEFA interpretation no punishment for Red Bull, is Dinamo fans did that we would be out of Europe for years.
Best regards, Jakov

Author: nikola_belgrade
Date: 31-10-2009, 12:39
Edited by: nikola_belgrade
at: 31-10-2009, 12:40

I don't think UEFA will deduct Dinamo and Croatia coefficient points. They won game fair and square (hope those stories of bribing is just a bullshit). I think the aim was to uphold some kind of regularity in the group allowing Dinamo to continue and, instead of eliminating them, this way they pull their chances for qualification to minimum.

As for the two match ban, from what I know, Dinamo already had some kind of conditional penalty and after latest incidents that penalty has been activated.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: Overgame Date: 31-10-2009, 16:14	Funny to always hear people complain about double standards :p For a first infraction, the punishment is quite low, but from infraction to infraction, the punishment gets harder. Salzburg is know for having some difficult 'fans', but nothing compared to Dinamo Zagreb, who was already punished several times. So, please, try again later.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: Pointer Date: 01-11-2009, 12:26	Overgame I could agree with you to some point. Dinamo has repeated incidents, but their fans have never interrupted the game, on contary most incidents were outside of stadium wich I think is more police bussines and not UEFAs.

Author: dinamo_fan
Date: 01-11-2009, 23:07

@ pointer

i think the ban was because the incidents INSIDE THE STADIUM... they were taped while braking the stadium pavement and throwing stones even the size of your head towards timisoara fans heads. even during the match there were incidents but not big enough to stop the game. about the coeff points, they should stay where they are because the win was 100% on the pitch and the players deserve the points for next years.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: babasol Date: 02-11-2009, 22:59	Its not fair to take a three points from club witch won a game.Like this Ajax and Anderlecht are allready in second round! Punishment yes,but not such stupid punishment!

Author: JPV
Date: 03-11-2009, 12:55

Babasol, do you have any other punishment which punishes teams in the same way? You can't punish a club financially more jsut because it has more funds.

I mean, giving clubs a fine (let's say 50.000 CHF/EURO) is a hard punishment for FC Don Pernil Santa Coloma (Andorra), but is just peanuts for FC Barcelona. This doesn't seem fair.

The only other available option for Dinamo Zagreb is giving Zagreb a stadium ban for some games. But that has already been done, and probably all games this year will already be without supporters. You can't expand fines/bans over multiple seasons imho, unless there are VERY serious incidents (Heizel-final 1986 (England) etc).

So, besides giving Zagreb the stadium ban, this seems to me the only other option. If you think there are other sanctions possible, i'm glad to hear. The problem is it is not the first problem with Dinamo Zagreb. If you still minimalise the problem, a bigger sanction is necessary.

At least your Prime Minister acknowledges the problem...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=soccer&id=4557994

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: Pointer Date: 03-11-2009, 18:26	I will repeat my opinion again, I do not think it fair to punish club by taking their points. You punish players by that measure, not the fans. I think only fair punishment should be ban on visiting abroad matches. I hope someone has watched video that I gave a link earlier it is just 10 seconds.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: Overgame Date: 03-11-2009, 19:15	A club is responsible for their fans inside any stadium, end of thre story. If Zagreb had took the measures, like they did in England, they would not have any problem now. But they didn't, end of the story.

Author: bbi
Date: 03-11-2009, 23:16

The only thing a club can do to control their fans in other stadiums is only by controlling which fans get the tickets for the away matches. I guess this is the way it's done no? Or can away fans get tickets from the stadium because than you can pay somebody off to dress in a team shirt and make trouble. Steaua for example has rejected tickets for the games at Fenner and Twente, but that's a different story.

Author: babasol
Date: 04-11-2009, 00:46
Edited by: babasol
at: 04-11-2009, 00:50

Dinamo has about 500-1000 hooligans and they allways making problems in the abroad matches.But Dinamo has about two milions suporters and when UEFA takes a points,they punish all of them.
The best punishment is to ban visiting abroad matches and hooligans will stay at home.In Timisoara incidents was in town,not in the stadium.
Zagreb hooligans attacked in centar of town Zdravko Mamić too,the boss of club Dinamo Zagreb.He run away when they started to hit him with botles and glases from some pub in centar of Timisora.
The worst punishment should be giving a Zagreb a stadium ban.But its also stupid too play a game without suporters.
Money punishment should be much biger,depend how wealty club is,for some litlle clubs 100.000 euros,for clubs like Dinamo one milion euros,for some big clubs like Barcelona 10 milions euros!

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: Pointer Date: 04-11-2009, 09:23	Dinamo is punished for incidents outside of stadium!

Author: JPV
Date: 04-11-2009, 15:00

Dinamo is punished for riots INSIDE the stadion-area, Pointer...

(some images of both inside and outside incidents):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dLxzpga3RE&feature=related

There were riots in the city and around the stadium. If these last ones happen on the premises of the club's stadium, they are considered to have happened in the stadium. On the images i even see images in the stadium itself.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 04-11-2009, 15:44

It's a dfficult issue. I know Feyenoord was punished for their fans behaviour:
- despite they adviced Nyon to not sell tickets to Dutch supporters
- despite they even gave a list (photo's?) of the 'fans' that have a ban in Holland
- despite the French police threw the 'fans' in the stadium to avoid problems on the street, even those without a ticket. And so causing incidents within the stadium. And so a possibilty to punish Feyenoord for it.

I only see 1 option for this: A club that has troublesome fans should forbid their fans to go to a risky- away match. That is not very nic, but it says: "we have done everything, those fans are not our fans"

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: bbi Date: 04-11-2009, 15:51	In this conditions I really don't know what Feynord could have done than and how it's their fault if they didn't give the tickets themselves. I wonder what's the case with Dinamo. Did the fans got the tickets in Timisoara or from Dinamo.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: Pointer Date: 04-11-2009, 22:32	bbi It was lots of things. Many fans were traveling without any tickets, hoping that they would buy them around the stadium. Also I think that UEFA’s decison on Feyenoord is disgusting

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: dzomba Date: 20-11-2009, 15:01	According to croatian press, Dinamo's appeal has been successfull. They got 3 points back, but they are fined financially. Uefa has no news about this subject yet.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: biagio Date: 21-11-2009, 03:28	yep, it's true. €75,000 fine plus a suspended three-year ban from all UEFA competitions.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: executor Date: 21-11-2009, 07:07 Edited by: executor at: 21-11-2009, 07:10	You mean Dinamo Zagreb will be suspended for 3 years from EuroCups if their fans do this again?? I think they would choose the 3 pt deduction now...

Author: badgerboy
Date: 21-11-2009, 13:43

"You mean Dinamo Zagreb will be suspended for 3 years from EuroCups if their fans do this again??"

Well the fans can't say they haven't been warned of the consequences if they play up again...

Of course this sort of thing should be consistently applied so that all serial offenders know what will happen the second, third, fourth or fifth time (whatever this is for Dinamo) they transgress or of course the next time (whatever the number happens to be) after the suspended sentence is announced.

And it's obviously a great shame for the vast majority of decent fans of any club that a few morons - whether these are in the dozens, the hundreds or the low thousands might cause severe consequences for everyone.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: Pointer Date: 21-11-2009, 20:02	I am a Dinamo Zagreb fan. I do not think we will be able to control every fan, I think this system is very unfair. They sould ban fans from traveling to away matches, this way new problems are on their way.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: moro Date: 24-11-2009, 11:25	Yes you can control every fan. Ask UK guys.

Re: Dinamo Zagreb penalty
Author: ssrree Date: 25-11-2009, 01:00	3 years without incidents,its imposible mision for BBB! I am sure that Dinamo Zagreb will be suspended in the next few years.