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Author: Malko
Date: 26-10-2009, 13:54
Edited by: Malko
at: 26-10-2009, 13:55

I alsways defended here the theory that the actual 5th rank of France cannot be defintive, that the French league is among the best 4, even 3 , in Europe.
Now, if we see the latest results.
Well, let's begin wqith Toulouse, losing in Donetsk 4-0.......forget about it!(even if qualification is still possible, maybe probable)
Lyon:
Many people thought, by losing some players, lyon would be less good this year than before. I think, Lyon is better this year than last, maybe then ever: Juniho is gone, we konow, but so many others arrived...Miralem Pjanic is a worls-class player....and......Lyon won in Liverpool (which smashed ManU yesterday!)...and are the leaders of their group.
Bordeaux: Draw in Junventus Turin, and they just beat bayern Munich...and were really the better, better team.......first of their group!
Marseille......pained vs Milan and real, got their points in Zurich, where Milan lost! Is in the game again....
Lille, first of their group, in front of a spanish and an italian team!

Actually, French teams win vs English, Spanish, Italian and German teams!

maybe, french club-football is on the right way. Beeing 4th again in 2 years (or 3) and then....going on !

Lille...........first of their group!

France : 5 games, 4 wins (and vs Germany, England,Italy,....)
Germany: 6 games: 1 win ! (vs...euh....Celtic Glasgow).
I think the differecne ist very clear

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Olympiakos Date: 26-10-2009, 16:58	If the difference is so clear Malko, then what's the point of this topic? Are you waiting for some German members so to start a new cycle of arguments?

Author: Overgame
Date: 26-10-2009, 17:43

And, on the other hand, France has just scored (ATM) 0.4 more point than Germany this season :p

Milan lost vs Zurich ? Fine, but who is first of the group after 2 away games ? Who scored 3 goals in Madrid and haven't lost 3-0 ? :p
And who is probably going to end third and play the UC, while Milan will play the CL ? :p

Bordeaux isn't in CLR2 yet. Marseille had 7 points after 3 games, 2 years ago, and finished with ... 7 points !
Should Bayern and Juventus win their next game, and Bordeaux could need 4 points to qualify, and it could be not enough in a special case :

Bayern : 2w 1d : 11p
Juventus : 2w 1l : 11p
Bordeaux : 1w 1d 1l : 11p

Lyon plays really great, like they did 3-4 years ago, and were out in the first (or second) KO-round. And with the possible surprises, even winning the group could give you a big team :p

Yeah, France's results are FAR better than the rest :p That's why, last week, Italy scored more :p

For the german teams, that's difficult to tell anything now. Stuttgart and Wolfsburg can still qualify in CL or at very least, UC. Bremen is almost already almost qualified. Hamburg is in a good position, only Hertha is down.

Funny how you are popping after one single good day and disappear after a bad one

And if the fate works as it works with Romania (when they pop after a good result, their team start to lose), I will have some good laughs in a few weeks :p

Author: Malko
Date: 26-10-2009, 18:54

Overgame, we are talking about UEFA-coeficients...and maybe for Marseille this year it will stillbe better to be third in the group and going on in Europa-League.....

Sure, Bordeaux isn't qualified, but it's very probable that Bordeaux will take 1 or 3 points in Munich.Because there, the was a real difference (more than in actual points).

That itlay scored more should calm down German ambition....they are far away from the big three actually, even if the temporary ranking doesn't show this as clearly as it is.

Hope yoiu do not compare French Ligue 1 with the Romanian one. Romania went down when they had more teams engaged. This is really not a problem in France, if you think that Nice just has beaten Lyon 4-1 and even Lille lost in Auxerre....

Author: Cirdan
Date: 26-10-2009, 21:05
Edited by: Cirdan
at: 26-10-2009, 21:15

Bayern played with 10 players for 60 minutes. And in the end even with 9. Still, they didn't have a very good day, they can do better, especially if Ribery and Robben return in time, which looks likely at the moment. And a 2:1 at home is not a particularly good result if it comes down to head-to-head results, so there we'll have to wait another week to say how much it is actually worth.

But yes, it was a great matchday for France, Bordeaux has a very good chance to qualify for the second round, Marseille is now at least on target for the 3rd place again and it looks very good for Lille in a difficult group.

But even this season, nothing's sure yet, with probably 4 or 5 German teams in the next round of either EL or CL and 4 French teams, let alone in 2 or 3 years, certainly not with the conciderable lead of Germany and Italy in the coefficiants.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 27-10-2009, 18:08	????? Bayern played with 9?.....euh, have there been 2 red cards? And ifthey played with 10, who's fault was it? Ribery will not be back for the return-game. He will even notplay with France in the 2 games vs Ireland..... I think France has the possibility to qualify all their teams for the next round, even Toulouse has its chance.....

Author: Overgame
Date: 27-10-2009, 19:03

Boy, the difference between Bayern and Bordeaux was big after a red card. Yes, that's Bayern's fault, etc but at home it will be A LOT different.

You are boring to always refer to A SINGLE FUC**NG GAME and always forget about the rest. Now, go back into your cavern. Btw, I asked you several times if you'd accept my bet : if France doesn't score than Germany of Italy this year, you will never post here until France is ranked 3rd. Afraid, little boy ?

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 27-10-2009, 22:53	who got the second red card?

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Cirdan Date: 28-10-2009, 00:51	Müller got his second yellow after 30 minutes and van Buyten got straight red after 88. OK, that didn't influence the match a lot anymore

Author: hamlett
Date: 28-10-2009, 20:58

This year, France has two and a half very good teams, and the three best teams in CL. Unfortunately, Bordeaux didn't kill Bayern, and that's an error. Marseille will end up 3rd as usual, Lyon will qualify, as usual, Bordeaux might be the second qualified, like Lille or Monaco twice in the last seven years. If not, Bordeaux will be 3rd. As usual.

A Ligue 2 team was thrown out at first round with no point. As usual.

And Toulouse doesn't do the job, while Lille looks good. As usual.

At the end, probably 4 out of 6, and about 10 points after round robin, which is to be compared with 7 - 8 pts France usually made throughout the past years, nearly the same if you take bonuses and extra matches into account.

Italian teams are less and less impressive. None of them have an easy task for qualification in CL, and they lack motivation in EL.

German teams do a correct job in CL, but two groups out of three are easy.

Hard to tell which way things go, and nothing to be enthousiastic about for French teams.

Author: Overgame
Date: 28-10-2009, 21:37

Well, Germany had 2 good years in UC, but now they just seem to be back at where they were.

About Italy, they suffered the side-effect of the calciopoli. Now, they start to be back, just give them time. Italy will be fully back when Inter will be at his right place : fighting for a spot in CL and not the title.

And about this year, I don't say Italy will score many points for sure, but all the teams are still in course for the qualification after 3MD. Italy will probably save at least 5 teams in the next round, perhaps more (Roma should be able to win twice at home, Lazio will be qualified if they get something in Spain).

We'll see, but I'm not worried for Italy's coefficient. 3 teams in CLR2 is far from impossible.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 30-10-2009, 14:04	"3 teams in CLR2 is far from impossible." Yes possible this year.....but it will probably not last very long. Just one, maximum 2 seasons...

Author: Overgame
Date: 30-10-2009, 19:33

Malko, Malko, Malko .........

Even when Italy has sent some low teams after the calciopoli, Italy was able to keep 3 teams in CLR2.
Now, let's have a little table :

08/09 : 3 out 4 (Roma, Inter, Juve)
07/08 : 3 out 4 (Roma, Inter, Milan)
06/07 : 3 out 4 (Roma, Inter, Milan)
05/06 : 3 out 4 (Juve, Inter, Milan)
04/05 : 3 out 4 (Juve, Inter, Milan)
03/04 : 2 out 4 (Juve, Milan) Inter failed vs Lokomotiv and Kiev :p
02/03 : 4 out 4 (Roma, Inter, Juve, Milan)
01/02 : 2 out 4 (Roma, Juve)
00/01 : 2 out 4 (Juve, Lazio)
99/00 : 2 out 4 (Fiorentina, Lazio)

So, if you have some informations, tell us, or leave us and go win millions by betting against them ! You're losing your time and money here !!!

For 09/10, we will see :

Milan is first, 3 points above the 3rd and has 2 home games left (one against the third)
Fiorentina is second, 3 points above the third and has 2 home games left.
Juventus is second, 1 point above the third and has only 1 home game left (but against the third).
Inter is 4th, 1 point behind the first and has only 1 home game left.

The next season, we will see who will play the CL, but Inter and Juventus should qualify and fall in the first 2 pots, Milan will probably do it too (and ill be in pot A or B) and Fiorentina isn't far and could end in the second pot next year (Rangers was in the second pot as 28th in the team ranking, Fiorentina is actually 31st).

So, again, if you have some informations about the result of the italian league, or the draw for the net CL season, tell us !!!!!

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 30-10-2009, 19:50	Overgame, it is not ME who is telling, Bundesliga could come over Italy for more than a short time !

Author: cinebelul
Date: 31-10-2009, 01:36
Edited by: cinebelul
at: 31-10-2009, 01:43

I would say yes! France is on its way, namely 5th, where they belong and remain there for 3 seasons at last. Even if they will do good coeficients, it's impossible for them to catch Germany and Italy because they will do also good coeficients. Only a catastrophic season of Ita and/or Ger would give them the opportunity to come closer. Everybody is free to hope, even malko. But do we have any guarantee that France won't have as well a bad season in the next 2 or 3 yrs???

Author: Malko
Date: 31-10-2009, 12:41

well yes....because the strong teams are beginning again to qualify regularly for european cups......i think in 3 years, it will be rank 4 again, where they belong anyways.....for rank 3, we'll see, its another challenge.
Even if Germany and Italy will have good scores too, it will be sufficient for France to have "slightly better scores" the next 3 years to become Numer 4 again (where they belong)

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: cinebelul Date: 31-10-2009, 23:56	No, no! 5th it's where they belong. We talk about today and near future, not what could happen in 4 years or...I should better say what you hope. What you think is not a rule, I have different thoughts and these are also only an oppinion, like yours. But if we take a look in the past (not only 4 or 5 yrs), it was rather an accident France's 4th place, so they belong to 5th spot

Author: johny5
Date: 01-11-2009, 00:44

It s wrong ligue 1 ever been i one of the first chianpionnships.
see here http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficients_UEFA
French chanpionship will i think in a near future be at the 4 th place.
In france after have been very pessimistic,the medias and people are today more anbitious. After the match liverpool-lyon the medias were underwhelmed,they wanted a more large victory.
That has been long time since we ever seen that.I think in france the mentalities are changing.The french clubs are today uncomplexed.

Author: Wak
Date: 01-11-2009, 01:57

Footix is talking to the Footix: this is a bad news.

The tax system will be tougher for sports players - perhaps should I say more "fair" compared to other citizens - after the end of the year (2009-12-31).

I wonder how much a loss it will represent and whether the clubs will have to compensate the players' income loss after the new contracts or as early as of January 1st, 2010.
Let's see how it will be in the next transfer window. Players might try to anticipate any downturn in the league and go running for their life, elsewhere.

Author: Malko
Date: 01-11-2009, 10:24

johny 5, you are right, others shouls see here too:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/plots.html

cinebelul, well, actually, France IS Number 5 and not Number 4, there you are right. But "actually", and this is not the last five years, I think they are closer to 3 than to 5........It's the 07/08-season that makes France be behind Germany actually. On the rest of the 4 years, France is 3 times in front of Germany, including the actual season....and if you look, as you see, in the past, since 1995, France was more often 4th, 3rd or even 2nd than 5th ! Thats a fact too!

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 01-11-2009, 10:26	Wak, ....well elsewhere could only be Spain or England. In germany, players do not earn more money than in France, Top-players even less......Italy is no more attractive for french players. So concerning regaining the 4th spot (and approaching the third) this won't change much....

Author: Zhund0r
Date: 01-11-2009, 11:18
Edited by: Zhund0r
at: 01-11-2009, 11:20

Besides: HSV, Werder and Bayern will be enough to prevent France overtaking Germany the next time. If they manage to qualify for CL next season they will be in pot 1 (Werder & Bayern) and Pot 2 (HSV). Afterwards we can see Malko crying in his corner, because Lyon, Marseille and Bordeaux had "bad luck". This season France will be ahead of Germany for some months, because the CL teams are getting the bonus, but in the end Werder & HSV might collect even more points @ EL. Under regular circumstances every french team gets kicked out in the first K.O. round of the CL. Everything else would be a surprise to me. In the end: Who care?s who is 4th or 5th? A nation belongs to their coefficients and nothing else. The only interesting point in this scenario is the weakness of Italy - which, of course, is temporarily AND the only nation who might get an advantage out of it is Germany. That's a fact and now stfu, thx.

Author: Malko
Date: 01-11-2009, 11:26
Edited by: Malko
at: 01-11-2009, 11:32

Zundhor, well i see it quite different. The German teams which will qualify, won't go very far in European Cup....if you think different, you probably do not watch on saturdays this sad kicking in German football grounds actually.
Well Bayern would be in France Number 4, Bremen Number 7 and HSV number 12...., while Lyon and Bordeaux would play the title in germany. That's all the difference.....thje Topteams are now really stronger in France, even Lille.
And therefor, this year, France will get more points than germany (already has, like in 3 out of 4 seasons, like i told before), and in 2 years, will be ahead of the sad Bundesliga. (ps: I saw Stuttgart-Bayern, it was a pity)

....i know, this was hard, but about the truth. It's true too that last year Bremen and HSV did smth in EL, Bayern failed as lyon vs Barcelona......but this year, the wohloe Bundesliga seems to have a lack of...nearly everything. It's a pity you see every saturday and in European Cups, they drop points vs Austria, Holland and Rimanians, while french teams beat Spanish, English, Italian and german teams .....

Author: Overgame
Date: 01-11-2009, 11:35

Again, Malko is comparing his wonderful Ligue 1 with the best german teams.

Who has won the group Bayern-Lyon-Fiorentina-Steaua last year ? Who has taken 4 points out of 6 vs Lyon last year ? Who was in CL 1/4 ?
Who played the UC final last year ? Who played a 1/2 ?

Malko, IF YOU ARE SO SURE ABOUT FRANCE SCORING AN HIGHER SCORE THAN GERMANY, ACCEPT MY BET !!!!!! But you won't, you are afraid, you know the reality and you are just trolling here. Poor guy, to have a so little life.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 01-11-2009, 12:17	Overgame, last year was last year, the actual season is the actual season. No, i do not accept, i never play..........nowhere.

Author: cinebelul
Date: 01-11-2009, 16:13
Edited by: cinebelul
at: 01-11-2009, 16:14

"....i know, this was hard, but about the truth."

hey, you don't get the point that what you are saying it's only an oppinion, by far not the truth. we will see if you are right or not..
you talk about the bad year of france, but look at rankings when frince get rid of this season....Germany is still above!
about UC..no need to argue with you. Germany had last 4 seasons every year minimum 1 team in semifinals ...france???

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 01-11-2009, 16:17	cinebelul... anyways, actually, Germany is far below France. Just see Bayern vs Bordeaux.(see again on Tuesday) ..and see Lille, the 14th in leader in front of Valencia...and see Lyon win in Liverpool. No German team could do that actually.

Author: Overgame
Date: 01-11-2009, 17:18

Rofl :p Again, he's looking at the league and tell us "see, the 14th in France is better than the 5th in Spain".

Boy, your teams won at home. Don't you understand it ? To be honest, i'd be delighted if Lille ends finally 3rd, after 2 aways losses in Spain and Italy. I'm tired to keep hearing your nonsense over and over.

Quite funny to see you talking about beating Liverpool, when Bremen throwed some good teams (Milan ?) last year, Bayern won against your mighty Lyon.

Actually, I'm tired. We're listening your shit for hat, 3 years ? Every year, you're telling us how France will be close of the 3rd place in about 3 years. Now, you changed it : 4 years.
Go back in your cavern for another 3 years, I hope to never meet you IRL, poor guy.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: vavact Date: 01-11-2009, 18:53	This topic provides lessons to all who wish to learn "how to talk about nothing".

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 02-11-2009, 11:03	well, as i seemed to see, lyon didn't win at home, but in Liverpool....and, as anybody knows, Lyon was not so strong last year than this year, and bayern got more smashed vs Barcelona than Lyon did.....but that was last year. Even if Lille loses vs Genua and Valencia, and wins it's home-game vs Prague, they'll qualify.

Author: Overgame
Date: 02-11-2009, 11:34

ROFL :p

Let's imagine this for the next 2 MD :
Valencia wins twice (away vs Prague and at home vs Lille) : 11p
Genoa wins twice (at home vs Lille and away vs Prague) : 9p
Lille loses twice : 7p

Last game : Genoa-Valencia, Valencia already qualified and, with 11p, probably one of the best second :p Are you still so sure about everything ? :p

And you are really funny about Lyon winning in Liverpool :p Marseille did it 2 years ago, things like that happen, little boy. Rubin has won in Barcelona, is Rubin one of the best team in Europe ? :p

Really, I would be delighted if only Lyon qualifies in CL, and Lille + Toulouse were out in EL :p We will have some hollidays, without you claiming everyday how strong France is, when they won 2 cup in the whole history, when they cannot put a single team in CL 1/4 for years, when they cannot even be close of winning the title in EL.

But continue to dream, little boy. Dreaming doesn't cost anything, just tears when your dream doesn't come true :p

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 02-11-2009, 13:21	well Overgame, and you REALLY think Bundesliga is strong?....i can't imagine.... Maybe you are really brainstormed in German TV........but in France, NOBOBY looks to Bundesliga and NOBODY thinks it's better than thenown league..and i suppose, neither in England, Spanin or Italy...maybe in austria.......

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: johny5 Date: 02-11-2009, 13:53	no malko.France will not be better than bundesliga...I thought as you before but with the near removal of the DIC all the good players will live the french chanpionship. http://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/2009/10/30/les-sportifs-prives-d-avantag es-fiscaux_1260659_0.html (or in english http://lens.theoffside.com/lactualite-matches-and-more/ligue-1-braces-for-anoth er-financial-crisis.html)

Author: Overgame
Date: 02-11-2009, 15:14

Little boy, you should travel a bit, you know ?

In Belgium, almost nobody watches the french league. We have our stupid league and we follow the 3 big leagues (Italy, Spain and England). Most people know some teams from the rest of Europe.
German league is a little more followed, just because Van Buyten is playing with Bayern, but that's all.

Maybe you are brainstormed by ... ah, you need to have a brain first to be brainstormed, and you don't fit in. Again, during the last 3 years, you were explaining why France will be 3rd soon.

But why do you talk about France ? You're living in Luxembourg, right ? Or was it another lie ? About the feelings in France, i've heard many people telling me why Ligue 1 was the best league in Europe :p How the 15th in France was WAY better than the 15th in England, Italy, Spain, etc :p

I find funny to hear someone telling me that a pot A team in CL couldn't qualify for CL in France, in a league where there is no pot A team, and only one pot B :p And possible UC winners or 1/2 finalist couldn't even qualify for Europe in a league where some teams from 2nd division can qualify :p

If your mighty french teams were so good, we'd see them sometimes in CL1/4 :p Or far in UC :p But they don't, do you know why ? Because they are too weak :p

I'd like to see Bordeaux winning in Munchen, Juventus could be almost qualified then, but I will be happy after a 2 goals loss, or 1-0 and you telling us how they should have won easily, but were unlucky and blablabla, and telling us how they will eliminate Juventus easily :p

Author: Malko
Date: 02-11-2009, 16:32

well Overgame, i have the belgian TV too....an look most of the gemes on Club RTL. Even Lyon vs Anderlecht,...and there i heard that the Belgian have a real estimate for the french League,more than you say.......
Well, van Buyten was playing in marseille before.....and was not the Star he is now......

I really do not see German teams win more European cups the last year than french. Its ZERO. and if the came a little further, they often were eliminated vs the same teams than the french ones (see last year). so it was jhust a matter of drawing.....

Anyways, in germany, only Bayern has some credit,...and is about to lose it internationally, while in France Lyon still has, is better than last years, and Bordeaux is to become the second european topteam.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Overgame Date: 02-11-2009, 16:35	Lemme me just say something : LOL. I give up, i'm talking with a 5 years old child who doesn't want to believe that Santa Claus doesn't exist :p

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 02-11-2009, 16:45	i may think the same thing of you......*

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Overgame Date: 02-11-2009, 16:49	http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2010.html http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2011.html http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2012.html

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 02-11-2009, 18:00	http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/ccoef2010.html http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/ccoef2007.html http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/ccoef2006.html http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/ccoef2005.html these are 4 seasons out of the 6 last seasons, including the actual-one.............

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Overgame Date: 02-11-2009, 18:04	And how close of Italy ? :p Dream, little boy, dream :p

Author: JPV
Date: 02-11-2009, 22:38
Edited by: JPV
at: 02-11-2009, 22:40

Points in history

Year	France	Germany (West-Germany before 1991)
55/56	13	1
56/57	6	3
57/58	2	4
58/59	15	7
59/60	4,5	5
60/61	4	3,75
61/62	0,5	4,2
62/63	3,333	4,2
63/64	5,333	8
64/65	3,4	5,833
65/66	1	8
66/67	3	6,833
67/68	4,75	6,428
68/69	1,666	5,833
69/70	2,6	5,666
70/71	2	7,666
71/72	2,2	6,333
72/73	0,8	9,833
73/74	4,25	10,166
74/75	5	12,333
75/76	5,25	10,285
76/77	3,5	9,285
77/78	7,5	6,714
78/79	3	14
79/80	8,5	13,714
80/81	7,75	8,571
81/82	2,8	9
82/83	4,4	8,833
83/84	3,8	3,5
84/85	4	7,166
85/86	3,2	8,833
86/87	4,2	8
87/88	8	8,666
88/89	3,5	8,428
89/90	9,2	11,5
90/91	9,75	7
91/92	6,8	7,333
92/93	11,2	5,142
93/94	8,2	10,666
94/95	9,333	10,166
95/96	9,875	8,833
96/97	7,125	9,142
97/98	6,8	11
98/99	8,642	6,357
99/00	10,285	11,071
00/01	9,5	11,062
01/02	7,125	13,5
02/03	7,916	9,142
03/04	13,5	4,714
04/05	11,428	10,571
05/06	10,812	10,437
06/07	10	9,5
07/08	6,928	13,5
08/09	11	12,687
09/10	6,666	6,25

COEFFICENTS
# of years France beats Germany: 15
# of years Germany beats France: 40

5-YEAR SUM
# of years France beats Germany: 13
# of years Germany beats France: 38

Ugh!

(and yeah, history doesn't mean a lot, but your assumptions without taking a broader perspective mean even less, Malko)

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 03-11-2009, 11:55	Nobody says that germany was not better in former years...just, actually, they are NOT

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: JPV Date: 03-11-2009, 12:41	and your arguments are... ? (no, taking only a few results doesn't prove anything. That's why there's a 5-years ranking. And look who's above France in that ranking)

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: dinamo_fan Date: 03-11-2009, 12:41	i still think germany is better than france in football ( national and club teams). germany has more euro-competitive teams than france. just compare: bayern shalke werder stuttgart hamburg wolfsburg leverkussen with.. lyon marseille bordeaux lille

Author: Zhund0r
Date: 03-11-2009, 17:17

Malko, let me tell you something about the CLUB FC Bayern (not the team): The club will integrate Audi into the shareholding (9,5%) + Sponsorship. This will give them around 200 Million Euro in the next 3 years. They also extended the sponsorship with Telekom with 25Mio./Year instead of 20/Year. Most of the money will be used for paying the credits of the Allianz Arena. Under regular circumstances this might have happened in 2020. Now, they are able to own the stadium in about 3 years. What do you think happens, if Bayern is the owner of the Allianz Arena? Count 1 and 1 together and you will come to the conclusion that they will be the richest football club on earth. I hope I doesn't have to explain to you why, it's obvious. Even without this bonus, Bayern is able to spend more money in a year then the Top 3 of France and in 3 years they are able to spend as much as the whole Ligue 1 (no, this is not a joke). The clubs in France might have good teams, but the clubs itself won't have a chance over a longer period of time.

So, the only one who is "on it?s way" is Bayern - not France and not Germany. They, both, are supposed to be ranked 4th and 5th and I really do not understand why you are so convinced of reaching rank 3. That?s just insane.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: dinamo_fan Date: 03-11-2009, 22:44	yet after tonight match bordeaux kicked bayern aut of UCL..

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 03-11-2009, 22:47	Actually, I`m not surprised. But in the end Bayern will collect more points @ EL, so it really doesn't matter for this topic. Ok, Malko can tell us new theories, but well... ^^

Author: cinebelul
Date: 03-11-2009, 23:19
Edited by: cinebelul
at: 03-11-2009, 23:20

Well, we have to admit that french teams look much better than last seasons, CL at last. Bordeaux kicked Bayern out, Lyon won in Liverpool and is as good as qualifyed and if Marseille would manage to qualify too (that would mean Milan or Real out) it will be a shock.
But...for the coeficinets ranking that means not to much, because the gap between Fra and Ger or Ita is to big and for the next years, untill they will get rid of their bad season, it will reamain like that. Malko tells about the improvment in France and good perspective there, but what does he know about Germany, except some games from Bundesliga he is watching at weekend?? Why is he convicted that Germany won't keep the level or even improve too?? This is only wishfull thinking...

Author: bbi
Date: 03-11-2009, 23:42

Zhund0r " But in the end Bayern will collect more points @ EL, so it really doesn't matter for this topic."

I am not sure about this considering the 5 points bonus. In CL Knock out Bayern could get from 2 - 5 points at least making it 8-9 points. So they would almost need to get into the semis and we know how these teams prepare the games for EL/UEFA CUP. They would need a perfect play in EL to make more points, but than if they play that good they would have made similar points in CL too.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Cirdan Date: 03-11-2009, 23:49	Yup, France is definitely having a good CL season. I wouldn't be too confident about Marseille, they only won against Zürich so far, but still, the French had tougher draws and will have 2 teams in the 2nd round, quite possibly as group winners, while Bayern is in trouble, Stuttgart is in trouble, only Wolfsburg looks good, though they aren't qualified yet, either.

Author: JK
Date: 04-11-2009, 00:08

Bayern could be better next year, when injured players are healthy again and they got rid of the coach and some players. They will probably also buy some new players during the winter pause. So yes there is a chance that they could get far in the Europa league, despite how bad they play at the moment.

On the other hand the last time that a French team reached the quarter finals of the champions league was in 05/06.

Of course we can't look in the future. Bayern could even still qualify for the next CL round. We will see.

And by the way Germany has other teams beside Bayern. They weren't even the Bundesliga champion last year.

Author: OMfan
Date: 04-11-2009, 00:17

Why are you all answering Malko...i don't understand.
Cirdan you're right OM wasn't really good tonight but win 6-1.
In fact Zurich is very weak, the referee hard for them (how could he give OM their second goal with 3 players offsides) and my team has a great potential but is just weak today.
So there is no way for OM to qualify cause if real and Milan beat Zurich we need 6 points to qualify or 4 points but our particular difference with both team is bad.
So We need a miracle for OM to qualify: 1 win in Milan, 1 win at home against real. A miracle could always happen...never 2.
In a coeff point of view that's not so bad.And a French team never won UEFA cup, why not this year

I hope the French teams could continue this good season to have a bigger gap with Russia and Ukrain.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: dinamo_fan Date: 04-11-2009, 10:25	@OMfan milan is really a weak team. real should have won. they had about 30 goal shots when milan had less than 10. milan can beat you only if the defence makes big mistakes. just mark pato and the game is won.

Author: Overgame
Date: 04-11-2009, 10:43

Yeah, Milan is weak, that's why they won in Madrid, Marseille and haven't lost a game since the one vs Zurich and is now only 2 points behind the 2nd in Italy, with Pato scoring only 4 of the 12 goals in Serie A and 2 of the 6 in CL.

Seriously, in september we heard how Milan was weak and will not qualify for CL. 2 months later, Milan is first of the group after playing Madrid twice, won twice away vs the direct opponent, is in the top4 in Italy, has not lost a game since the 30th of September and scored in all of those games.

If you mark Pato with more than one man, you'd give more spaces to the second forward and/or Pirlo with 25m shots and/or some defenders and/or Seedorf.
It everywhith was so easy, why aren't they out of the CL spots and far in the italian league ?

Author: bbi
Date: 04-11-2009, 10:48

at least 20 of those shots were very far from being dangerous. Should I remind you Milan scored a perfectly valid goal that was cancelled. Also Milan won in Marseilles now it will be a breeze for OM to win in Milan please. Also this hype that Milan is terible this season is a bit of an exaggeration. In Seria A they are 2 points from second place and in CL they beat their main opponents. If they would have won their game at home with Zurich(like everybody expected despite their form) they would already be group winners.

Author: Malko
Date: 04-11-2009, 16:04

ZundHor..."So, the only one who is "on it?s way" is Bayern - not France and not Germany. "well, didn't seem like that....would Audi change something?????

Anyways, i di never say: France has won! I said : France on it's way......and i think YES, cause actually more points than Spain, Italy and germany....that's what i call...beeing on it's way.
The season is still long, but they are on their way to regain lost gallions.......

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 04-11-2009, 18:47	Well, France started very good, but the most important phase of the season (for the Top 5) is the second half, especially after the first K.O. round. So we'll have to wait a few months.

Author: Malko
Date: 04-11-2009, 18:52
Edited by: Malko
at: 04-11-2009, 18:55

yes, sure....but in this second round, some teams risk to be absent....
Bordeaux just got another 5 points (divided by 6) by qualifying yesterday for the ko-round, points not yet in berts ranking........
England (Manchester) and Portugal (Porto) got them too.....
so France is actually far above germany,Italy and Spain in UEFA-ranking of this year. Even if these countries wiell get qualifications too. Barcelona and real for Spain, Inter and...maybe Milan for Italy, Wolfsburg for Germany....but France will probably qualify Lyon, which gives another 5 points.....

Anyways, all that i want is respect for the french teams, as much respect as for the italian, spanis, english or german teams.....
Phrases like " VS a teamlike Bordeux, Bayern has to win at home", i do not like, cause bordeaux could have said too : "VS a team like Bayern, Bordeaux has to win at home". The differecne, Bayern said it, Bordeaux did it.......

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: JK Date: 04-11-2009, 19:46 Edited by: JK at: 04-11-2009, 19:49	@ Malko "Inter and...maybe Milan for Italy, Wolfsburg for Germany" When you think that Bayern Munich won't qualify, you have to mention Juventus Turin for Italy, because one of those teams will reach the next round. And of course Florenz and Stuttgart are also not out yet. Florenz is even on place 2 with 6 points in their group.

Author: Overgame
Date: 04-11-2009, 20:04

Spain : Sevilla ? 9 points in 3 games, almost qualified.
Italy : Fiorentina and Juventus ?

"so France is actually far above germany,Italy and Spain in UEFA-ranking of this year."

7.333 for France (Even if we count +5/6=0.833 = 8.166) 3 games left.
7.214 for Spain 5 games left.
7.124 for Italy 5 games left.

Well, with 2 teams in CLR2 for France, 3 for Italy and Spain, France is UNDER those 2 :p

Too bad, you lose. Try again.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 04-11-2009, 21:44	well, i said : actually. Yes, Juve will qualify and probably Fiorentina too, ...or it will be Liverpool who is holding a draw in Lyon at halftime..... And the loser is.......Germany.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 04-11-2009, 22:56	I don't get your point. The only club Germany will lose is Hertha and at the end of the season, we'll see what it is really worth to collect a few more points during the group stage than other countries. You are calling Germany a loser, while we are having all opportunities. That?s just ridiculous, Malko.

Author: Wak
Date: 05-11-2009, 01:15
Edited by: Wak
at: 05-11-2009, 01:20

Those debates are so caricatural and predictible - I knew Malko would come back tonight and Overgame too - that topics such as this one rank among the most humorous of the whole website! You're finally getting the whole concept of football. Whatever you can say about it, it's a lot of nonsense. I'm not going to develop, cause I wouldn't be funny at all. But let me fit in the debate. Numbers are just not talky at all. If you want to know who lives in the country with the best league in the world, create your own ranking with your most subjective criteria, like:
#1 time passed by myself watching this league
#2 beauty of the players' wives
#3 number of gay marriages or unions celebrated (it seems to match the coefficients for the top2!)
#4 value of the players' cars (you can switch the nouns with those of nb 2)
#5 obese rate in the population of players' ages
#6 absolute number of people under the poverty line
#7 square kilometers of urban areas
#8 numbers allocated to each country and ranking made watching EuroMillions
#9 complex non-mathematical formulas kept in total secrecy
#10 or a ranking which comprises divisions in country where discontent does not exist
Cause if you really like the Portuguese league, I don't see why you should force yourself to think that others are ahead. Same for Germany. France. Italy. Spain. England.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: bert.kassies Date: 05-11-2009, 10:59	lol

Author: Ricardo
Date: 05-11-2009, 12:22

@Malko,
Currently I will have to say that France is indeed on its way! Lyon, Bordeaux and Marseille all still have much more chances to pass the CL-GS than Wolfsburg, Bayern and Stuttgart. And I have stated before that a team that passes the CL-GS should be considered better as any of the other teams. Unfortunately there are stil a lot of points to be earned in EL in spring, and there German teams tend to do better as French (though you never know this year). Also Uefa ranking is 5-year based and so France has to keep up this good performance for a bit more time. But yes this year (sofar) is looking good, great actualy! So France is on its way, yes! One remark however. This is compared to Germany. Compared to Italy, Spain and England they are not doing really better, but they are keeping up with them. And to stay in that top-league a strong performance is needed till the end of the year.. I'm curious....

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 05-11-2009, 22:49	Now, how about that, Malko: Germany: 7,583 France: 7,500 Who?s the loser, now? Do you recognize how easy it is to make points for Germany? This will last for some K.O. Rounds and after the season we can speak about your wishful attack. (I know this posting is senseless, but I'd like to behave like Malko sometimes, too. :p )

Author: Cirdan
Date: 06-11-2009, 00:03

Truth is that France has a very good season in the CL despite difficult groups, while the German teams are once again rather disappointing.

In order to actually catch up with Germany, let alone Italy, they'd also need results after the winter break, and since neither the German nor the Italian season is particularly bad coefficiantwise and it looks like we'll actually have more teams than France still in the competitions next year, even having finally someone French in the semis again might not be enough to get much closer to the top4.

Still, what Lyon, Bordeaux and Lille have done is quite impressive, considering the competition they are up against.

Author: Overgame
Date: 06-11-2009, 00:35

We talked about this several times, but, coefficient wise, a win is worth 2 points, a draw 1. Nothing more if your opponent is Barcelona or not less if you're playing against Saint Julia.

France got 3w 2l : 6 points (1 point country ranking).
Germany got 3w2d 1l : 8 points (1.333 point country ranking).
Italy got 5w 1d 1l : 11 points (1.571 point country ranking).

Funny isn't it ? We will see after the 6th MD how many team each country has left, and the score with the bonus points.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 06-11-2009, 00:40 Edited by: Zhund0r at: 06-11-2009, 00:40	Actually, you have to wait till the round of the last 32 is over, because those two matchdays are the same like the bonus points in the CL. After this round the round of the last 16 will start in both competitions and you can start to compare. Before this phase it is quite point- and senseless.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: cinebelul Date: 06-11-2009, 17:46	ooops, after EL games Ger is again on the same level with Fra this season coeff, even 0.083 better Malko???

Author: Malko
Date: 09-11-2009, 20:25

it will come and go...we all know that. It really depends too on the opponents every day.......
german teams are actually with better results in EL, french teams with better results in CL. as there are as many points in the 2 cups........
But what will "neutral people" remeber after such a week?...Not so much tBerlin beating Heerenveen than Bordeaux winning in Munich....or Lyon taking 4 of 6 points to Liverpool......

Germany is in front...actually, but only if you do not count the additional points (8 points!....or 1,14 ! coefficient) for France by qualifying Bordeaux and lyon......

Author: hamlett
Date: 10-11-2009, 14:34
Edited by: hamlett
at: 10-11-2009, 14:35

Malko, if you want to compare :

- According to Bert, the bonus for R16 is 5 pts and not 4 pts,

- You should wait till GS is over, to get a comparison without bonus

- Bonus is a compensation for harder games in CL, not a rewarding for good performance in GS, bonus must be put in balance with the high risk of being thrown out in CL R16. To be clear, Bordeaux / Manchester and Lyon / Milan in one hand, Bayern / Brugge and Stuttgart / Salzburg in the other hand. Maybe not worth 5 pts, but easier for German teams.

- Wolfsburg, Stuttgart and even Bayern can still qualify for next CL round. Being qualified after 4 games doesn't provide french teams with more pts.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Wak Date: 11-11-2009, 18:03	Don't forget that the group winners are paired with runners-up. Your match-ups do not seem so logical. (Troll ahead)

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Overgame Date: 11-11-2009, 18:13	Wak : Bordeaux isn't group winner yet, they still have to not lose against Juventus. Nothing illogical, that draw is still possible ATM.

Author: hamlett
Date: 13-11-2009, 19:56
Edited by: hamlett
at: 13-11-2009, 19:58

Malko would like us to think that France is roughly equal to Germany, and the actual ranking difference is due to a very bad 2007-2008 season for french teams.

Unfortunately, reality is pretty different.

Over the last four seasons, 30 french teams and 30 german teams played UEFA Cups and Leagues.

5 of them, from each country, were knocked out at first C3 round, and 5 were eliminated at group stage.

So, 20 of them, from each country, arrived at CL - R2 or UC - R3.

At that point, difference between France and Germany is still tiny : + 0.8 for France/2005, + 1.8 for France/2006, + 2.4 for Germany/2007, + 1.6 for Germany/2008, total for four seasons : + 1.6
for Germany

BUT things are very different from february on. 20 German teams earned 90 pts + 22 bonuses, while French teams earned 61 pts + 8 bonuses

More than average (5.6 pts) for German teams, 7 in QF, 3 in SF, one in final.

Less than average (3.4 pts) for French teams, 3 in QF, none in SF (last one in SF was back to 2003-2004).

France will be able to compare with Germany when French teams can perform better in Europa League R32 and R16.

Author: Malko
Date: 13-11-2009, 20:18

as i said already, YES, germany got more points in final stages.

Lyon vs Barcelona one round earlier than Bayern vs Bayern

and in Europaleague the same last year. the french teams lost vs the Ukrainian, the germans one stage later.......
anyways, as long as teams like Lyon or Bordeaux win more often vs Bayern then they lose (cause Bayern is for me the best german teams), it seems clear that France has the better top-teams.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Tirion Date: 14-11-2009, 02:14	Maybe you should take a look at the Bundesliga table...

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 14-11-2009, 11:33	yes, Mainz is on 6th place, and my team FC Metz (second french league 5th rank) just won yesterday in Mainz 2-1....well, only a friendly game, but ..... 2 teams on same level nevertheless...... .

Author: Overgame
Date: 14-11-2009, 12:00

Madrid lost 4-0 vs a 3rd level team, draw your conclusion, little boy.

Funny, a few years ago, Aachen passed more rounds than some L1 teams, but you "forget" this. For last year, you're talking about "one round later". Funny, when Lyon draw Barcelona because they lost vs Bayern.

Little boy, luck can apply for one season, perhaps 2. But never during 5 years. Your "mighty" teams ranked 4-6 are not strong enough to pass several rounds in UC, that's not what we think, that's what the results show. If you have a different view, after 3 years listening to your nonsense, keep it for you and go away, far, far away. Why not the North Pole, little boy ?

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 14-11-2009, 12:56 Edited by: Malko at: 14-11-2009, 13:04	Overgame, yes, i said : It was jhsut a test-game... But really, i do not see actually german teams who can catch up with Lyon or Bordeaux. The best german teams are actually on the level of Marseille , Monaco or auxerre. "luck can apply for one season, perhaps 2. But never during 5 years." exact, and the last 5 years , France got 3 times more points than germany in UEFA-Ranking.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: JPV Date: 14-11-2009, 15:27	But "sadly", Malko, it doesn't matter if you outperform Germany, it matters HOW MUCH you outperform another country in total in 5 years.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 14-11-2009, 17:04	JPV, right ! And it's therefore i claim that the one bad season for France 2 years ago makes that France is actually jhust on rank 5 and will be at rank 4 again when this result will be away...

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Overgame Date: 15-11-2009, 02:14	Thank you Malko for saying the same thing days after days. Could you disappear for, let's say, 2 years and come back hen you will have something enw ? Thnaks in advance ! P.S. even without 07/08, Germany is 4th and France 5th.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 15-11-2009, 11:25	Overgame, wait and see..........the next years, it will really go in the direction that bundesliga will have some correct teams, Bayern included, but no more European Top-team. In France, there will be 2 or 3 Topteams. That's the difference, and everybody is seeing that it's going this way....

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 15-11-2009, 11:28	please go back to school and learn english. awful...

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 15-11-2009, 11:49	Zudhor, maybe you'll learn first luxembourgish? Nicht wahr?

Author: Overgame
Date: 15-11-2009, 13:12

Topteams ? Boy, please, continue to make me laugh like this :p Soon, you will tell us that you have 3 potential CL winners ? and 3 potential EL winners ? :p

You are really wonderfull if you believe half of what you're writting :p France has some good to get some good results, perhaps sometimes in a cup (even if I have some doubts about the mentality in France :p), but nothing comparable with the top3, where football (and sports in general) is a part of everybody's life. Everybody is involved in these countries, from the prime minister to the single individual, and even when they hit the bottom of the hole, they work together to come back.

And probably the best example (for Italy) is Fiorentina. Even if some folks doesn't know this team 3 years ago, they had an history in Italy and was one of the top clubs. In 2002 : no money ===> back to Serie C2. And now, they are in position to kick Liverpool out of the CL.

What happens with the old top teams in France ? Everybody let them die. Slowy, but they don't care.

Author: arnochan
Date: 15-11-2009, 15:49

Malko, let's face the true. For now German League is still more attractive than French one.
Even if for this year french result on CL are way better than germans team, french team still have to prove more...

It's good to compare those 2 leagues, they're really close specially
about fiscality. And soon when UEFA gonna start to be more strict about budget of clubs. German n' french clubs will fight with the same weapons as English, Spanish n' Italian's clubs, Finally...
Btw, I really do thinks that at that time French n' German club will be close to the top 3 or even more...
Today, they can't keep all the best players that they formed.
The stadiums in France are terrible. And they can't spend money they
don't have like english or spanish.

Author: Overgame
Date: 15-11-2009, 16:39
Edited by: Overgame
at: 15-11-2009, 16:53

That's nice to dream :p But I think you are old enough to see the
truth and not fall into the porpaganda used by everybody outside England, isn't it ? Let's check the "Big Four" debts for a second, and analyse them :

1) MU : they are first in the 'ranking of debts' but do you have a single idea why ? :p They haven't bought a whole new team and several years ago, they had zero debt :p
To keep it simple, Glazer bought the club but used a loan for it :p And by some legal trick, the debt appears to be for the society and not for him (read this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leveraged_buyout)

2) Arsenal : they built a brand new stadium. Do you not get a loan when you buy/build a new house ?

2) Liverpool : MU + Arsenal.

So far, these 3 teams don't have any problems. Someone bought them and used a legal trick to not pay taxes or built a brand new stadium, and if UEFA starts to refuse these situations, the teams would not be sold anymore (and that's not bad for them, really) and nobody would be able to get a new stadium :p They don't have bought players "with money they don't have", and a new regulation will not change this.

4) Chelsea : this case is a bit more tricky. Abramovich paid for the players but using his own money, creating some 0% interest loans. You can think whatever you want about them, but don't include the first 3 teams.

To be honest, I see only 2 teams who get loans on banks to buy players : Inter and Real. But AC Milan (who has a 30M debts to avoid taxes) and cie don't do this, and are better than Germany and France together :p

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Overgame Date: 15-11-2009, 16:52	Oh, and for your information, PSG (France isn't it ?) has a debt of 48M€ :p

Author: Malko
Date: 15-11-2009, 18:39
Edited by: Malko
at: 15-11-2009, 18:42

"The stadiums in France are terrible. " ???????
Have a look (just look at the pics)
http://www.soccer-forum.de/thread.php?http://www.soccer-forum.de/thread.php?thr
eadid=5336&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=1

and about attractivity....LOl...reallyy, noboby prefers a Stuttgart-HSV to a Bordeaux-Lille and so on...no, the german league is really one of the most boring concerning the play...

well, Mainz lost vs Metz, you know it...and Bochum now lost vs Chaleroi (belgium).....the second half of the Bundesliga ist the waekest from the 5 big championships, no doubt

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 15-11-2009, 18:41	Overgame...and Schalke?

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Overgame Date: 15-11-2009, 18:44	Malko : keep your opinion about the world for you. The stadiums are full in Germany and half-empty in France :p The TV's are paying more for Bundesliga than for Ligue 1 :p The number of goals scored in higher in Germany than France :p Could you change your disk, please ? Concerning the arrogance, France is FAR above the rest of the world :p

Author: Malko
Date: 15-11-2009, 18:51
Edited by: Malko
at: 15-11-2009, 19:00

"The TV's are paying more for Bundesliga than for Ligue 1 :p" and exactly, this is not true, it's just the opposite.........and the difference is enormous even.

"The number of goals scored in higher in Germany than France :p"well when ended a topgame in germany 5-5? (like Lyon-Marseille)

arrogance ? well, there Germany is world-champion. They way they speak of their football is jhust one example....The ZDF-reporter said yesterday in Irland-France that the best men were the german referees....LOL. And this in a game with 75% of play iin the 90 Minutes, and a game better than any game a german national team did for the last 2 years.....isnt' that arrogance'....they spoke about Bosnia as if the Bundesliga-players of Bosnia were the best in it...LOL

Author: Overgame
Date: 15-11-2009, 19:07
Edited by: Overgame
at: 15-11-2009, 19:10

Wow, again, you're taking one game, something that happens once in a decade and draw stupid conclusion. Usualy, your top games end with a wonderful 0-0, and you start to talk about the quality of the GK and the defenses :p

Last year, Bayern lost vs Bremen 2-5, won vs Wolfsburg 4-2 and lost the 2nd leg 5-1 :p

In fact, after 3 years; now I'm sure that you NEVER watch a domestic game, german, french or whatever. Seriously, you're always taking a few scores without even knowing how were the games.

Boy, go back into your cavern. A majority of the world doesn't like France for the arrogance about everything. Paris is the beutiful city in the World, etc. Well, when I talk about France in general, I must say Paris. French people are not different than the rest of the world, supporting their team and such, but Paris is different.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 15-11-2009, 19:21	Overgame....if you see people from Paris abroad, ...yes, it s about the same than those of Munich in wintersports......but do not generalize.....

Author: Zhund0r
Date: 15-11-2009, 19:26
Edited by: Zhund0r
at: 15-11-2009, 19:28

lol, in this thread over there, you are critizising most of the (potential) future stadiums and let?s face it: Without the EC 2016, they won't build them. Simply some dreams until now. The Prinzenpark is really out of date for example. Besides, most of them are very small. In France, the stadiums won't be full, so why should they build larger stadiums. That?s just senseless. Even the 2. Bundesliga has more visitors. And still you are talking about which league is more attractive.

and lol @ topgame: Werder 5-4 Hoffenheim, Bayern 2-5 Werder. Results like this are happening all the time and not once in a decade.

Author: Malko
Date: 16-11-2009, 17:38

Zundhor, probably we are talking about two different things when we say attractivity. But in no way, it is jhust many people in the satdiums. 15 000 in Guingamp is for me more attractive than 30 000 in Cologne. Compare it to the people who live there and in a circle of about 100 km radius.....If Bastia gets 5 000 , it means that this is very popular in Corsica, if Berlin gets 40 000 , it means that Hertha is not very popular in berlin. You understand what i mean?

Concerning TV-money, it's just the bosses of Munich who complain that the bundesliga-Clubs get less money from TVs than the French or English....the reason is that in Germany pay-TV doesn't work, because there is too much Bundesliga on free-TV. This has other advantages, surely, but never concerning TV-money....

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 17-11-2009, 10:28	TV Top 20, concerning european Clubs : http://images.spox.com/userfiles/3/u/0/1/x/da8vt5Z9fVvwVa6LTLgIP0.jpg

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: executor Date: 17-11-2009, 11:15	How come Schalke is more attractive than Bayern? Something is fishy here...

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 17-11-2009, 13:31	Because Bayern played UC, while Schalke earned some money until the CL quarterfinals. Germany sucks when it coms to TV input - but fortunately, that?s the only bad part of the whole input.

Author: JK
Date: 17-11-2009, 16:48

Deloitte Football Money League

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

There were four German clubs and two French clubs among the 20 clubs with the biggest revenue in 2007/08.

And at least in 2005/06 the Bundesliga had the 3. highest revenue among the football leagues. Ligue 1 was only on place 6.

I didn't want to register to download the most current report here:

http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/industries/sportsbusinessgroup/article/f4
9d49642dff0210VgnVCM100000ba42f00aRCRD.htm

In it you can probably find the leagues ranking of 2007/08. It would be interesting to know if something changed since then.

Average attendance of European football clubs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_attendances_of_European_football_clubs

Among the 30 best attended clubs are 11 from Germany and only two from France.

Averages attendance of football leagues

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professiona
l_sports_leagues

Bundesliga: 41,914
Premier League: 35,599
La Liga: 29,124
Seria A: 23,180
Ligue 1: 21,050

Author: cinebelul
Date: 17-11-2009, 19:20

I think this topic should be called "Is France better than Germany?", because exactly and obviously only that means for Malko "being on it's way"
No matter to argue with him in any way. If you come with numbers from past, he will say "yes, but it's about what it will be, and Fra blablabla...". If you come with the rankings and try to make him understand that before 2012 Fra will have nothing to do in any kind with Ger, but rather secureing the 5th or 6th spot in posible battle with Rus and Ukr, he will say "yes, but it's about the quality level of football they are playing now" and if you tell him that french and german football are nearly on the same level, he will remember that Fra was some years ago in front of Germany in the rankings.. and so on, a circle that will never end

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 18-11-2009, 16:36	Attendence does-t mean anything in quality of a league ! Just watch a game in Ligue 1 an a game in Bundesliga,....well not one, watch 10 games of each league, and you'll all understand what i mean

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: OMfan Date: 18-11-2009, 17:34	"The stadiums in France are terrible" How could you contest that Malko??? it's a fact! Look at my team, our stadium is a shame, there's no noise with probably the best public. Look at Le Mans, Lille, Nice, Monaco, Bordeaux etc... terrible stadiums in France. Yes there is projects IF we had 2016 Euro but with "ifs"...

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Philipp Date: 18-11-2009, 17:54	i always found it courious, that a club like OM has a stdium without a roof.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 18-11-2009, 18:15	OM-fan...in Mettz, they built the new stadium, even now they are not part of Euro 2016. See Saint-Etienne or Lens. NO real football ground like that in all germany (excetion is Dortmund). Marseille will get its roof..... Lille, Nice, Lyon, le Mans........will all have new stadiums.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 18-11-2009, 18:32	oh boy...

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: executor Date: 18-11-2009, 20:44	See Saint-Etienne or Lens. NO real football ground like that in all germany (excetion is Dortmund). LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: JK Date: 18-11-2009, 20:55	"NO real football ground like that in all germany (excetion is Dortmund)." Yes, you are right. Everyone watching the last world cup halluzinated. In reality those matches were played on mere grassland with a few old wood benches on the sides.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: dinamo_fan Date: 18-11-2009, 22:27	france on its way to loose against ireland .. !?!?!

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 19-11-2009, 15:58	No, because Henry is a very talented Handball player. lol

Author: Wak
Date: 27-11-2009, 00:01

FRANCE vs ENGLAND (1)
CL. Best pot team in caps.
> LIVERPOOL 1-2 Lyon ; Lyon 1-1 LIVERPOOL
1 victory and a draw, 3-2 on aggregate.
-----
FRANCE vs SPAIN (2)
To be fair, let's wait the 2nds legs to be played (Real v Marseille and Valencia v Lille).
-----
FRANCE vs ITALY (3)

Triple-CL-confrontation.
> LYON 1-0 Fiorentina ; Fiorentina 1-0 LYON = draw
> Marseille 1-2 MILAN ; MILAN 1-1 Marseille = MILAN
> JUVENTUS 1-1 Bordeaux ; Bordeaux 2-0 JUVENTUS = Bordeaux
2 victories each, with 2 draws. Bordeaux better than Juventus and Milan better than Marseille.

Add one EL confrontation :
> LILLE 3-0 Genoa ; Genoa 3-2 LILLE
1 victory each. Lille 5-3 on aggregate.

FRANCE 11 points, ITALY 11 points.

-----
FRANCE vs GERMANY (4)

CL :
Bordeaux 2-1 BAYERN ; BAYERN 0-2 Bordeaux
2 victories for Bordeaux, 4-1 on aggregate. Ahem.

EL :
Guingamp 1-5 HAMBURG ; HAMBURG 3-1 Guingamp
2 victories for Hamburg, 8-2 on aggregate.
-----
FRANCE vs RUSSIA (6)
look later at CSKA and Dynamo Moscow's results

-----
FRANCE vs UKRAINE (7)
EL :
SHAKHTAR 4-0 Toulouse ; Toulouse 0-2 SHAKHTAR
2 victories for Shakhtar, 6-0 on aggregate.

-----
The result is I think, uncertain. I would say "let's wait" because we have almost no true match with teams of the same level, apart, time will tell, between Fiorentina and Lyon (though I'm not sure that Lyon, being already qualified, did their best).

Juventus might be in Pot 2 and Bordeaux in Pot 3, the success of the team built up by Laurent Blanc around Gourcuff, two pillars past or present of the national team, is NOT SURPRISING. Especially against the Juventus club which seems to be rising from its ashes - not enough.

Bayern is doing a very bad season start, both in Bundesliga and CL. Their results against the French champion are even less surprising. Pots don't say that. Same for Liverpool, which might get out of the Big4 this year for good.

Guingamp is actually 16th in Ligue 2 (among the french pro's last 5). Hamburg is Bundesliga's 5th (among the german pro's best 5).

Shakthar... well... no need to comment, need I? Toulouse is doing highs-and-lows in the french league.

Author: Malko
Date: 27-11-2009, 13:45

To become Number 3, France has first to become No 4 again, so take over Germany. actually Germany did more points this year, but due to much more easy opponents.

Concerning the actual strenth of both, here are the results vs other teams of the Big5 leagues:

FRANCE
Victories: (5)
Bordeaux Bayern
Bordeaux Bayern (second)
Lyon Liverpool
Lyon Liverpool (second)
Bordeaux Juventus Turin

draws: (4):
Bordeaux Juventus
Marseille Milan
Lyon Fiorentina
Lille Valencia

GERMANY:
victories (1):
Bremen Bilbao
(guingamp is not in Ligue1)

draws(2)
Bayern Juve
Stuttgart Sevilla

......quite in difference in the internal "championship of the Big5"

Author: hamlett
Date: 27-11-2009, 13:54

You know perfectly well that France is even with Germany (sometimes better) during first half. This year, Bayern is low, and Bordeaux/Lyon very good, so that France should be higher than Germany. Germany has higher coef just because of Guingamp and good draws for Stuttgart/Wolfsburg.

BUT Germany is way better in second half, with semi-fimalist(s) almost every year in C3.

Coming into February, you'll have Bordeaux and Lyon with few expectations in CL, and OM + LOSC in Europa League.

And you'll have Bayern + Bremen + Hamburg, all of them able to go through QF, SF, maybe final in Europa League.

I expect at least 2 pts as a difference, perhaps 3 pts by the end of the season.

Author: Malko
Date: 27-11-2009, 14:17

Well, nothing says that France will be less good in the second half this year. and with Marseille and Lille in EL, i see as good chances for France as with Bremen HSV for Germany....They got far last year, but, curiously in Uefa-Cup it is not like in CL that always the same clubs come into the semi-finals......Bremen or HSV may draw Donetsk or even Inter or Marseille, and they can be out in the first ko-round. Same can happen to Lille.....noboby knows.
Anyways, dis somebody make the coefficients if Lyon and Bordeaux go into the 8th finals of CL and no german club? I suppose that then even actually the french coefficient will be better. and with only one german team?

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: spoonman Date: 27-11-2009, 14:35	@ Malko: "To become Number 3, France has first to become No 4 again, so take over Germany" Just for the record: When do you expect that to happen?

Author: Wak
Date: 27-11-2009, 15:06

Who knows? Who could expect such a good start for France and such a bad one for Bayern and Liverpool? Some say it's because Real Madrid dramatically transformed the transfer window. Ask the saints.

Also, we are far from being the only to see after the UEFA coefficients. I feel there's more and more press. Italians are well aware that they may lose their 4th CL spot this year. French have defended their 5th place and are now lured forward.

Now just try to know what will happen next year or the other. The players' demand for being at their best will go down because the WC will be of the past.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: executor Date: 27-11-2009, 15:11	Malko, stop inflating the bubble. Lyon beat Liverpool only ONE time, not 2 times as you wrote... So move the second "victory" to draws.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: spoonman Date: 27-11-2009, 15:17	It felt like a victory for him, so of course it does count as a victory.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Overgame Date: 27-11-2009, 16:54	To become number 3, France needs, at least, to score more than Italy :p And, atm, Italy has more points, and could add some bonus points in the balance :p Let's be serious Malko, do you really expect France to pass Italy ? :p In 2013, after the end of the World and when Italy will be underwater ? :p Or I could say that Belgium will become 6th soon, when Anderlecht will win the EL vs Standard :p

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: OMfan Date: 28-11-2009, 13:19	lol

Author: Malko
Date: 29-11-2009, 12:13
Edited by: Malko
at: 29-11-2009, 12:14

spoonman, logically in 3-4 seasons, with some luck 2-3.....

executor, you are right, one victory and one draw for Lyon vs Liverpool....my error...and yes, it felt like a victory.....

Overgame, to become 4th, France does NOT have to pass Italy, to become number 3, ...yes,as you said.
and it already happended before......France even was second in the best times....and they'll may come again with 2 or 3 very strong teams....

Author: cinebelul
Date: 29-11-2009, 20:05
Edited by: cinebelul
at: 29-11-2009, 20:07

"..logically in 3-4 seasons, with some luck 2-3....."

Malko, this only a WISH! your personal one
No certainty that Fra won't have again a weaker season. You take in account only their good play from now, but there are more factors, like players move to other ch'ships, bad shape of one or two top teams (because of injuries for example)or even bad luck at draw (very strong groups). You see, there can happen a lot about you can't be sure at this moment it won't happen..

Author: garfield335
Date: 30-11-2009, 14:36

Malko is funny.

I am sure that Germany will also earn more points this season than france.
They have 6 teams in competition, and there is very high probability that this 6teams passes the GroupStage.
Bayern, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg will at least play EuroLeauge,
Werder and HSV will pass GS of EuroLeague. The only team in trouble is Hertha.

and i think it does'nt matter if you earn the 4 bonus points for passing UCL GS or playing euroleague, because you can earn also 4 additional point in 1/16 final of Euroleague.

Author: Malko
Date: 30-11-2009, 17:51

So, Europaleague, Garfield, gives advantage to weaker championships. Some kind of not logicall, but maybe the truth.
On the other way, with marseille and Lille, France will have some very serious candidates in Europaleague too, and maybe Bordeaux and Lyon will earn many points in Championsleague, getting quite far.

Yes, many things can happen, what will be very important is that Lyon, Bordeaux and Marseille will qualify regularly for European Cups, then i am sure, they will compete with the best in Europe, and Germany will probably have no such team for a long time.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: spoonman Date: 30-11-2009, 18:58 Edited by: spoonman at: 30-11-2009, 19:04	Malko, you should start learning Italian now, so that you can flood Italians forums in 2 years and proclaim the imminent world domination of French football. I mean, fair's fair - you've been doing the same in German forums for years now, so why should Italian football fans forego this memorable experience...

Author: Overgame
Date: 30-11-2009, 19:01
Edited by: Overgame
at: 30-11-2009, 19:41

"and there is very high probability that this 6teams passes the GroupStage."

You're giving to Hertha "a very high probability" to pass the GS ? :p Might they lowe (away) their next game, they can be out :p

And the bonus points DO matter. They are sure points, while the EL 1/16 have to be played (and won) to get 2-3 or 4 points. That's the difference.

Malko : you're a really funnt guy :p Do you know that Germany has score more points than France in the last 5 years ? :p Do you know that the top 3 are the 3 countries getting the most points/team in CL ? :p
Do you know why, for small countries, EL matters more than CL, but why that's not true for the bigger countries ? For a simple reason :

England/Spain/Italy : 4 teams in CL, 3 in EL
Belgium : 1 team in CL (sometimes 2, but really rare), 4 in EL

Understood, little boy ?

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 01-12-2009, 18:40	Overgame, yes, but Bundesliga is going the way to focus on Europaleague, cause CL is out of reach.......so concerning weaker championships.......

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 01-12-2009, 19:29	So what? Now, you?re indirectly admitting, that Germany is able to collect more points than France easily. It doesn?t matter in which way. This Forum is about coefficients. Get used to it. If you want to DISCUSS about which league is stronger, klick onto the Forum 2 button right at top of the page.

Author: Overgame
Date: 01-12-2009, 22:41

Malko, do you realise that Germany could have 2 (or even 3) teams in CLR2 too ? Just because your 2 teams are already qualified doesn't give you more points/a better league, BOY :p

Wolfsburg needs the same result than CSKA to progress (and CSKA will have serious problems to win in Turkey) while Suttgart needs a win at home, and Bayern an away win.

So, don't speak of "having more teams in CLR2" when nothing is sure, BOY. On the other hand, again, Germany collected more points in CL in the last few years than France, so using your OWN logic, France is the weaker league.

Epic Fail, try again.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Cirdan Date: 01-12-2009, 23:46	...on the other hand, Hamburg is really in trouble now with lots of injurys and might not make it out of the groups, not to mention Hertha... not that I think France has a chance to overtake Germany in the 5-year-ranking within 3 years, but even looking at this year right now is useless, especially for Germany everything is possible.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: garfield335 Date: 03-12-2009, 08:56	Yes Malko, France is on his way to keep the 5th place, nothing more. Germany scored another 2 points, France get 0pts. 5 of 6 German teams are already qualified for the next round. only 3/6 teams from France, 1 Team is already out. But Yes, France is better than Germany and Italy, and France will be third in the near future. Yes i beleive it, isn't it Malko?

Author: Malko
Date: 03-12-2009, 17:17

garfield, what a difference to play Valencia away or Vienna at home, isn't it?
3-4 years and France will be in front of germany, just because France has the better top-teams and very good teams behind (even if Lille lost in valencia).
Concerning national teams, it's nearly done (France was 13th, germany was 2nd, now France is 7th and germany 6th), and it will last a little more concerning the UEFA-Ranking, but we'll have to be a little more patient...logic will win.

Author: Wak
Date: 03-12-2009, 17:33

Malko, what do you think about the end of the DIC tax trick? Clubs will lose MILLIONS in the years to come because of the then-increasing wages.

Some rugby union clubs already prevented they were going to cut their player's emoluments. I think that in France we're not going to see such spending in the transfer window as that of Summer 2009 before... a long time. Some players will even escape next month!

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 03-12-2009, 17:52	That?s why they all spent so much money, because they won't be able in future. There is no logic in his argumentation. The taxes alone will prevent Ligue1 from overtaking any league in future. Well, Spain might get the same problems in a few years, but they have two big names in favor.

Author: JK
Date: 03-12-2009, 17:56

"now France is 7th and germany 6th"

France incompetence to qualify in getting the first place in its group, is also the reason why France is so near Germany in the Fifa rankings now.

In the October rankings Germany was on place 5 and France on place 9. All successful play-off countries improve their rankings, Portugal climbed 5 places, France 2, Greece 4 and Slovenia 16. Qualification games just count much more than friendly games. That is also the reason why Fifa used for the seeding of the first pot the October rankings. They didn't want to reward countries for their incompetence to qualify directly to the world cup.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: JK Date: 03-12-2009, 18:08	@ Wak DIC tax trick? Could you explain what that is? I only know that in Spain footballers must pay much less taxes than normal Spaniards and that this may change in the future. If I were a normal Spaniard I would also complain that millionaire footballers must pay less taxes than me especially in this economic crises. Is this the same in France? Does "DIC tax trick" mean that?

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 03-12-2009, 18:10	Besides, Germany cancelled a game against Ivory Coast because of the death of Robert Enke. So, think first, Malko. Afterwars you can write. In addition to that, France had to play 2 extra games (LOL) with a coefficient of 1,5 (WC Play-off). Sometimes I really do think you are really, really stupid. So, who?s not in Pot 2 at the WC, now? Guess who. But why do you care? Whatever, back to topic...

Author: Malko
Date: 03-12-2009, 18:36

Wak, it hing it's the wrong way. What should be created, is same conditions in all Europe. Then French club-football would soon be the best in all Europe. I hope they'll go that way...

Zundhor, by having restrictions in financal questions, french clubs wer less attended by the crisis than other ones. and Bundesliga has it's DNCG too and cannot spend money like english or italian clubs....

JK, well this "qualification -thing" concerning FIFA-Ranking. Some nations did friendly game, and THEY WON THEM. It did not give the same points than the qualification, but they were better off than the german team, which in friendlies, plays weaker nations which give no points at all, even if they win them..sometimes..... . I think the fact that some good results from germany have been taken away from the ranking is another reason why the tendance of Germany is clearly down right now (and for a year now).

Zundhor, about cancelling.....yes, it is true, and i think it was normal....but as I said, the german national team has many problems right now, is far away from a Top-Team like they were some years before, and the boost of the WM in the own country is sliding down now too...now bach to the topic.

3-4 years and France will be before germany in UEFA-ranking. I truely believe in it.

Author: hamlett
Date: 03-12-2009, 19:03

Malko : do you expect this topic to be still there within three years ? The question was : is France on its way ? The answer is : yes, France is on its way to remain 5th.

This wasn't obvious three months ago, and many fans predicted France would fall behind Ukraine and Russia.

If Marseille and Bordeaux make it to the finals, and France gets higher (for this season) than Germany and Italy, then question us again. But unfortunately, I think you can shut your topic pretty soon, as Germany goes much faster than France, will have more teams in, and there won't be much points to be gathered by France from february on.

Author: JK
Date: 03-12-2009, 19:05

Germany was 3. at the world cup 2006 and 2. at the Euro 2008. So they improved their performance. And they qualify for the world cup 2010 as the top team of its group.

France on the other hand was in the final 2006. At the Euro 2008 they were last in their group with only 1 point. They only manage to play 0-0 against Romania. And now they can't even beat the huge football nation Serbia in the race for the first place in the qualification group for the world cup 2010. No disrespect to Serbia but really everyone thought that France will easily manage to get the first place.

I see a downward trend for France, not so for Germany. But keep on underestimating Germany's national team. It is always so funny when countries are convinced that they are so much better than Germany and that they will get a much better place than Germany at big tournaments, only to come back to reality after the tournament is played.

Author: Wak
Date: 03-12-2009, 20:02

@JV
"DIC" or Droit à l'image collective is a tax "trick" (that's the word I found in the dictionary for the french niche fiscale, in German they seem to call it a Steuerschlupfloch). It has been implemented in 2004 and is regularly praised by the team sports pro leagues.

For financial reasons, the Parliament, supported by the government (except a Sports sub-minister), stopped its application by July the 1st, 2010.

Code du sport, L222-2 :
« N'est pas considérée comme salaire la part de la rémunération versée à un sportif professionnel par une société soumise aux articles L. 122-2 et L. 122-12 et qui correspond à la commercialisation par ladite société de l'image collective de l'équipe à laquelle le sportif appartient. »
Is not considered as wage the part of the pay given to a professionnal player by a society submitted to articles L. 122-2 and L. 122-12, a part which corresponds to the marketing by the latter of the collective image of the team the player belongs to.

= this part can reach 30%, which means that 30% of the pay is not taxed at all

The law is not passed yet, and there are proposals to slowly kill the trick by 2012, not at one stroke in July 2010. But the huge upheaval created by the business men of pro sports is meaningful. LFP President even threatened of - guess what - A STRIKE!

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Malko Date: 03-12-2009, 20:31	"there won't be much points to be gathered by France from february on." LOL...why not? Bordeaux quarter final, lyon semi-final minimum, Marseille winning the Europa-league is also a possibility. "I see a downward trend for France, not so for Germany. " Fifa-Ranking does not say that. and did you see germany play these days'...it's far away from a top-team.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 03-12-2009, 21:48	oh boy, now you?re just annoying and your arguments are more than ridiculous. You?re just proofing that you hate Germany The topic is supposed to be about France but you keep talking about Germany. That?s very funny. lol.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Lusankya Date: 04-12-2009, 00:35 Edited by: Lusankya at: 04-12-2009, 00:36	Also it's supposed to be about club teams and not national teams. But even in this case it's only Malko with his unbelievable opinions. Thank god the real French guys (this whole thread is even more funny, because Malko isn't French) in this forum are all nice people. E.g. Lyonnais, OMfan or Zippy.

Author: spoonman
Date: 04-12-2009, 00:53
Edited by: spoonman
at: 04-12-2009, 00:54

Lusankya, that's what I've always been thinking. The fact that Malko isn't even French makes his ranting and raving all the more absurd.

I think it's natural that fans defend their clubs and their national teams, and probably most of us will be a little biased towards our own nation. But with Malko, I don't know... His bias in favour of his "adopted fatherland" is so extreme and over the top that it's just utterly ridiculous.

His constant rant against Germany does become a little annoying. But if it were the other way round, i.e. if he praised my country's football out of proportion, I would simply find it extremely embarassing.

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Zhund0r Date: 04-12-2009, 00:54	Word. Even they are ashamed of you, Malko. Sometimes I'm starting to be against French clubs just because of you, despite I like some of them. But in the end I can?t take you serious with your weird opinions, because - luckily - the coefficients are saying something else.

Author: Wak
Date: 04-12-2009, 01:06

I am French too! Glory for Lusankya who blindly glorifies the French! (he should have glorified clever people instead, he'd get more opportunities to make friends!)

Ok, ok. Malko isn't French but I know why he is fond of us. If I were to put him in a category, I'd put him in the categories of "immigrant-like minds", because when you're an immigrant, and you want to be integrated, you're forced to love things that are not supposed to be really good. Example: Ligue 1 and your local club.

Haha, we're psychiatrists.

Author: Malko
Date: 04-12-2009, 12:15

"The topic is supposed to be about France but you keep talking about Germany. " Of course, they are the first that have to be passed bye....

National tems...jhust tosay that it will be earlier to pass by in the FIFARanking as in the UEFA-Ranking. Otherwise, we do not have to discuss this here......

WAK, i do NOT live in France ! I have jhust here in Luxembourg the opportunity to compare very well the football of our 3 Neighbors, and it is clear, that the most interesting is the French, followed by the German and the Belgian.
In the early Eighties, it was Germany, followed by Belgium and France....things change...

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: Lusankya Date: 04-12-2009, 12:25	Wak wrote: "I am French too! Glory for Lusankya who blindly glorifies the French! (he should have glorified clever people instead, he'd get more opportunities to make friends!)" Sorry, I don't get it. Do I blindly glorify the French?

Re: Is France on its way?
Author: rakke Date: 04-12-2009, 15:42 Edited by: rakke at: 04-12-2009, 15:43	Malko What's the point of contributing to a forum when your opinion is so stuck that all you do by trying to convince the world of "The Truth About French Football" is creating aversity? Don't you think you and this forum would be better off if you just started writing a blog (instead of here) about how France get less points than Germany and Italy but is better anyway?

Author: JK
Date: 04-12-2009, 21:39
Edited by: JK
at: 04-12-2009, 21:51

Just a little overview. I posted some of it in the Battle for 3-4 thread, but here I also include France.

5 years ranking:
3. Italy: 58.052
4. Germany: 55.374
5. France: 47.073

4 years ranking:
3. Germany: 44.937
4. Italy: 42.695
5. France: 36.261

3 years ranking:
3. Germany: 35.437
4. Italy: 30.767
5. France: 26.261

When the results from 05/06 and 06/07 get eliminated, Italy will lose clearly the most points. And France will lose a little more than Germany. The next few seasons will be interesting!

All possible places for Italian, German and French teams at the end of the group stage:

Italy

Fiorentina: 1,2
Inter Milan: 1,2,3,4
Juventus: 2,3
AC Milan: 1,2,3
Genoa: 1,2,3
AS Roma: 1,2
Lazio Roma: 3

-> 4 qualified, 2 still have a chance, 1 out

Germany

Bayern Munich: 2,3
Wolfsburg: 1,2,3
Stuttgart: 2,3
Hamburg: 1,2
Hertha: 2,3
Werder Bremen: 1,2

-> 5 qualified, 1 still has a chance

France

Bordeaux: 1
Marseille: 1,2,3
O. Lyon: 1,2
Lille: 1,2,3
Toulouse FC: 2,3
Guingamp: out before group stage

-> 3 qualified, 2 still have a chance, 1 out