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Author: Wak
Date: 11-10-2009, 20:47
Edited by: Wak
at: 11-10-2009, 20:48 | Hi Everyone, I'm back with another question to train your neurones and synapses. I don't know much in the math. . .
Rangers and Celtic are thinking about entering the EPL soon.
That could make a potentially very very strong league that would constantly beat every other one in the UEFA coefficient rankings (don't get worked up, I only said POTENTIAL).
But whatever happens, EPL will never be given more than 4 spots in CL and 3 in EL, except the fair-play or Title Holder spots !
When you look at the spots in CL (GS+PO+Q3) given for each country :
3+1 for top 3, 2+1, then 2+0+1, then 1+0+1, then 0+0+2, then just the champion in 1st or 2nd QRs...
The allocation has been done this way because we know there's a competition between Italy, England, Germany, Spain and France, economically and demographically. But what if that allocation became UNFAIR*? Are we going to make never-ending, questionable rules?
Think about an AUTOMATIC allocation of the spots, depending of the POINTS (or the share of points over total points) and NOT the RANK.
What would resemble a perfect formula, that would give each country its spots into CL proportionally to its real strength?
Of course we'd also need something to ensure San Marino's participation and EPL's non-hegemony, and also avoid unbearable speculation on future CL participations - but that's another story.
P.S. : I'm not British.
*I find it looks very much like the past aportionment of the european parliament, where UK, France and Italy were given the same number of MEPs even if UK and France could ask for one or two more -- now it's going to be solved: Love Irish! |
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Author: Wak
Date: 16-10-2009, 04:15
| Nobody cares. . . or shall we be looking for math experts? |
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Author: badgerboy
Date: 16-10-2009, 12:52
| For me if you're asking for a "perfect formula" or indeed any formula at all you're asking for a maths expert. And that isn't me.
I do remembering thinking (and probably writing here) a long, long time ago (or so it seems) the idea that place allocations (talking overall rather than which round teams start in) ought possibly to be decided against a certain standard of performance rather than by place in the rankings.
So if - for a wild & random example - 6.000 per year was deemed to be the coefficient required to get 6 teams in Europe (2 starting in the CL and 4 in the EL) then based on the 2009 ranking both Portugal & Turkey would achieve this on the 5 year average. If the standard was 7.000 per year then Portugal would be in & Turkey out. 8.000 & both Netherlands & Romania would lose a team. So looking ahead you could say that 7.500 sets the current standard required to achieve 6 European teams & fix the standard rather than the number of teams - so the access list for all competitions changes each year based on the number of countries hitting each standard.
Of course it's more complicated because the format of the competitions - & hence the number of coefficient points available - changes every five minutes - so any calculation has to be based on percentage of possible points obtained or some such.
So no formula - just a different explanation of the idea in the original post maybe. Don't see it happening & don't really see the link to this tiresome story (fantasy?) about Celtic & Rangers joining the EPL. |
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Author: amirbachar
Date: 16-10-2009, 15:44
| It's a good idea in theory, but it would make thing much more complicated with no real difference in practice. |
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Author: exilenm
Date: 18-10-2009, 15:01
| The current system seems fair enough. The top 3 nations get between 9 and 12 clubs in the CL group stage - and most likely 12 - and the top 6 get between 18 and 21 out of the 32. But look at who gets through to the round of 16 - almost a 100% success rate for the top 3. For instance:-
2009 - Top 3
Teams entered - 12 (Esp, Eng, Ita)
Teams in group stage - 12
Teams in round of 16 - 11
Nations 4 to 6
Teams entered - 9 (Fra, Ger, Por)
Teams in group stage - 7
Teams in round of 16 - 3
All others
Teams in group stage - 13
Teams in round of 16 - 2
This time round we again have 12 teams from the top 3,
21 teams entered from the top 6 with 20 in the group stage (Dinamo Moscow the only dropouts) and 12 from the rest.
And the current favourites to qualify are
Top 3 - 10 teams
Next 3 - 5
The rest - 1
It's all in the hands of the "smaller" nations. The big teams are there to be beaten - and if they are, then the likes of Holland, Scotland, Romania and so on will get more teams in the group stage. |
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Author: Wak
Date: 31-10-2009, 18:14
| That wasn't my point. The current theory is fair because it is made to match with the examples.
I was thinking about a formula that could work in UEFA as well as in CONCACAF, where USA, Mexico and to a lesser extent, Canada, are fated to top the confed's competitions (over the long-time) just because of the size of their population. |
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