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Author: bondory
Date: 25-03-2009, 13:04
| which team qualify for europa league? 5° 6° e winner or finalist facup |
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Author: spoonman
Date: 25-03-2009, 13:38
| 5th placed from the Premier League
FA Cup winner or finalist
League Cup winner |
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Author: badgerboy
Date: 25-03-2009, 14:08
| So for next year it's 99% certain that 7th place in the current Premier League will mean a place in Europe.
Only in the unlikely event of Everton - or Arsenal - dropping out of the top 7 but still reaching Wembley - would this not be the case. |
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Author: Wak
Date: 25-03-2009, 17:54
Edited by: Wak
at: 25-03-2009, 17:55 | I have a similar question for France:
I think I finally got at which round EL teams play : Cup winner in country's best berth, others depending of league's placing.
However... I do not catch on in which ORDER teams get qualified : if the Cup Winner ends in the league at the country's berth for EL (France : 4th) , who gets the next one ? Cup Finalist or 5th ?
That is quite important for me ; in France there are 3 berths to EL*
* the league cup will (normally) be won by a CL-qualified club (Bordeaux), thus the berth will be given to the league's 5th
* the Coupe de France winner will (normally) face Toulouse and Rennes, 4th and 7th of the league respectively
So, what if the final of Coupe de France matches Toulouse and Rennes, Toulouse wins it, and later Toulouse ends the league at 4th place ? I know, Toulouse gets the first spot, but then, is it 5th and 6th or 5th and Finalist? |
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Author: Overgame
Date: 25-03-2009, 18:25
Edited by: Overgame
at: 25-03-2009, 18:31 | Let's assume that :
1) Bordeaux wins the league cup and qualifies for CL.
2) Toulouse ends 4th and wins the french cup.
Then : Toulouse gets the best berth, the 5th ranked-team gets the 2nd berth and the finalist of the league cup gets the last one.
Well, i'm not sure about the losing finalist for the league cup, but if Bordeaux win that cup, that berth will be the worst one. |
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Author: Wak
Date: 25-03-2009, 18:39
| There is nothing for the finalist of the league cup, if Bordeaux wins that cup and ends in Top 3, the berth goes directly to the league – like in England. |
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Author: badgerboy
Date: 26-03-2009, 10:27
| "So, what if the final of Coupe de France matches Toulouse and Rennes, Toulouse wins it, and later Toulouse ends the league at 4th place ? I know, Toulouse gets the first spot, but then, is it 5th and 6th or 5th and Finalist?"
In that scenario it would be 5th & 6th. The losing cup finalist only qualifies if they lose to a Champions League team - not if they lose to a UEFA Cup team.
If Toulouse won the Cup & finished 3rd in the League then the order should be 4th, 5th, losing finalist. |
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Author: Wak
Date: 26-03-2009, 23:23
Edited by: Wak
at: 26-03-2009, 23:24 | Many thanks.
So if I understand it well the precise order for all the European berths is:
* Champions League berths through the league (1 to 4)
* Europa League best domestic berth through the Cup (1)
* Europa League other(s) berths through the league (1 to 3)
* possibly, Europa League last domestic berth through a secondary cup such as the Carling Cup or the +Coupe de la ligue+
This is far-fetched I have to say! |
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Author: duncshine
Date: 31-03-2009, 13:22
| Wak,
Slightly more complicated than that.
It goes:
Champions League as Champions League Title Holders
Remaining Champions League berths through league position (1, 2, 3, or 4 depending upon country).
Europa League as Europa League Title Holders
Next best Europa League berth to Domestic Cup Winner
Then according to Highest League position not already qualified above.
In England and France, one position guaranteed to the League Cup Winner takes the lowest berth EXCEPT...
If Domestic Cup Winner has qualified for Champions League, the Domestic Runner Up is guaranteed a place but at the lowest birth.
So, using England as the most complicated example:-
On the access list.
Domestic Champions, Runners-Up and Third Place straight to group stage of Champions League.
Domestic 4th place enters in final play off for Champions League Group Stage.
Domestic Cup Winner enters Europa League at the final play off before the Group Stages.
Domestic Fifth Place enters Europa League at the final play off before the Group Stages.
Domestic League Cup Winner enters Europa League at the previous (Q3 I guess) qualification stage.
SO, IF WE ASSUME THE LEAGUE FINISHES AS IT IS NOW...
Man United (1), Liverpool(2) and Chelsea(3) all to Group Stages of Champions League
Arsenal to last Play-Off round for Champions League (seeded or not, as per UEFA regs to be published at the end of April).
Domestic Cup Winners: If Man United, Chelsea or Arsenal win, berth not used. If Everton, then they go to final play-off for Europa League.
Domestic 5th Place: Aston Villa definitely in final play-off round for Europa League if they can finish 5th.
Domestic League Cup Winners: Man Utd, so berth not used.
Domestic 6th Place: If Everton win the cup, they go into final play-off round thanks to their Cup Win, if not, they go into final play-off round for finishing 6th.
Domestic 7th Place: Wigan go into the previous Europa League qualifier (Q3).
Does that make anything remotely like sense?
Good, because that's only if the league stays as it is.
If an English team finishes fifth or lower while winning the Champions League, then the fourth placed team drops down to the Europa League, but all four English teams in CL go straight to group stages.
If Man U, Chelsea or Liverpool drop out of the top 4 but win the domestic cup, that rules out 7th place qualifying.
If Manchester City win the UEFA Cup and get into the Top 6 or 7, then eighth place could still qualify.
And we haven't even mentioned Fair Play yet!! |
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Author: Wak
Date: 04-04-2009, 23:29
| I have to say this is awesomely clear when you start to add Title Holders :o) it looks like everything is a problem.
I'd like to sum it up at last, though it wouldn't last until the new regulations get published.
However, do you know what's the rule for a Fair Play Domestic Winner that's already qualified for CL/EL, if universal? Or else it might be the Domestic 2nd, then 3rd, etc. until we find some team that's not qualifed?
At least, I summed up the CL qualification, which is not so much tortuous. I suppose that everyone know it by heart here, but I aim to do the same for EL with, probably the sum up split into qualification and starting round.
"place" stands for "domestic league place"
"Title Holder" stands for "Winner of the last season's (CL/EL) tournament"
==
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE QUALIFICATION AND STARTING ROUND
==
A Being Title Holder: starts in group stage
B Being at the place which grants a berth to CL, or, if Title Holder is in the league, being at the place just after: starting round depending of UEFA league coefficient with Title Holder not taken into account if present
BAR if Title Holder is in the league and out of top-4, no qualification for the 4th if concerned
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