Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

UEFA CUP R1
Author: aekition Date: 04-08-2008, 18:04	If let's say BATE Borisov and Anorthosis don't go through to the CL, then they will take part in UEFA CUP R1.. So there what happens?? I mean BATE Borisov will have the coefficient of Anderlecht (41.810) and Anorthosis the coefficient of Rapid Wien(10.840)...But in Round1 they will have those coefficients or the CLQR1 coefficients(Anorthosis with 4.327 and BATE B. with 1.760)??

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: Overgame Date: 04-08-2008, 18:09	Nope, they would have their low coefficient.

Author: AlanK
Date: 04-08-2008, 19:14

The key word is "effectively"--read Bert's explanation carefully. The teams that pull upsets in QR2 of the CL do NOT take the coefficient of the team they eliminate--that is the effect only in QR3, since the draw is made before said upset occurs. BATE gets the draw that a seeded team (Anderlecht) would have gotten if the seeded team had gone through. (I'm a bit surprised that many seem to assume BATE's progress to QR3.)

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: executor Date: 04-08-2008, 19:37	{i>I'm a bit surprised that many seem to assume BATE's progress to QR3.{/i> Same here. It's like BATE plays a team from Malta, that never competed before in European Cups and has no away win in its entire history...

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: aekition Date: 05-08-2008, 15:20	OK people, let's don't talk about BATE B. Then, IF(!!!) Anorthosis make it to the CLGS then it will have the co-efficient of Olympiakos??? And teams from the unseeded group in UCR1 make it to the UCGS..they will have the coefficient of the seeded teams?? Thank you!!

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: executor Date: 05-08-2008, 15:31	For the umpteenth time: NO. The so-called "taking of coefficient" is ONLY valid in CL QR2 and QR3. And it isn't really a taking.

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: darthvader Date: 11-08-2008, 13:26	Did I understand correctly? Bate Borisov will go to UEFA R1 with Andreleht coefficient?

Author: executor
Date: 11-08-2008, 14:20

My forehead will be red from all this slapping.....

No, people, no team takes the coefficient of their opponent. Never. In no circumstance. What confuses most of you is that the draw for the CLQR3 takes place BEFORE the games in QR2 are finished. UEFA ASSUMES the team with the highest coefficent will advance to QR3 and they make the draw accordingly. If the team with the lowest coefficent qualifies, it APPEARS as if it has "taken" the coefficient of the seeded team. But IT DIDN'T. It took the opponent's PLACE!

So, no team will capture the coefficient of their opponent. NEVER!

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: AlanK Date: 11-08-2008, 14:24	To executor: Take it easy, man, take a deep breath, let it out, and again, and again. These are but children, and they know not what they do.

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: badgerboy Date: 11-08-2008, 15:02	Executor When I see stuff like this I have to ask myself if so many people are really that "slow" or if it just "amuses them" to see people make the effort to answer the same question over & over again. Either way the future of the world is not bright...

Author: darthvader
Date: 11-08-2008, 15:40

Hm.. nobody ever thought that real "taking" of coef is possible.

It is important that Bate was seeded as it took coef. from Anderleht. So Bate DID TOOK coef. We are talking for seedings only and not for UEFA rank list.

So... will BATE "BORROW" Anderleht coef in seeding for UEFA R1.. just borrow for seeding and not for ever. :D

As I understood it happens only if the draw is before the game. If the draw for CLQ3 takes place before CLQ2 games, the BORROWING will occur. Am I right?

Will draw for UCR1 take place before CLQ3 gmaes? As I see in calendar, NO. So BATE will have only 1.76 points. Am I right?

So the BORROWING is possible only in 2nd and 3rd CLQ... Am I right?

But I think that Petrzalka (after defeating Celtic and Partizan i CLQ rounds) entered CLGS with Celtics coeficient. but there is no older seedings in Berts site (that is bad).

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: bert.kassies Date: 11-08-2008, 16:12	Yes that would be bad indeed. But fortunately the History section of this website contains old seeding lists. Furthermore, if you got the impression of "taking the coefficient" from the CL seeding list. Please read carefully, it is stated "take effectively the coefficient of their opponent in the next round". So, effectively. Not really.

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: darthvader Date: 11-08-2008, 18:22	Oh.. Bert you are terrific !! Didnt know about history

Author: pit
Date: 12-08-2008, 00:14

I don't know whether the following explanation will make the issue more or less clear, but let me try:
let's forget about "taking coeffs" and let's go with the following explanation:

should a draw for some round be done before the previos round has finished (and of course in this case instead of single club a pair from not-finished round takes part) the coefficient of the pair involved in the draw is the higher coeff of the two clubs' coeffs in the pair

with this explanation:
a) draw for next round before the prev round has finished is done only for Q2 CL (before the first games), for Q3 CL (before the Q2 2nd legs) and of course for the semi-finals (before the quater-finals); for semi-finals however no seeding exists, so coeffs are not important
b) we do not speak about "inheriting coeffs" or anything similar, but only for coeff of the pair involved in the draw for the particular round; should e.g. BATE goes in UEFA R1, this round's draw is done after the end of Q3 CL so BATE participates in the draw as single club with their own coeff

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: darthvader Date: 12-08-2008, 08:03 Edited by: darthvader at: 12-08-2008, 08:04	I checked for Artmedia. No it didnt BORROW Celtic or Partizan coef. in the group stage draw. So will Bate take the coef. or not?

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: executor Date: 12-08-2008, 08:24	Arrrrghhh.... I'm out of here

Author: cska
Date: 12-08-2008, 09:20

DartVader (how pompous nick...),

Are you mentally disabled??? (with all my due respect towards the people, who have the misfortune of being mentally disabled)

You first tell how you checked about Artmedia and then ask again and again about BATE. Why do you ask the question, if you checked the answer???

NO, NO and NO - BATE wil NOT NOT NOT take any team's coefficient except their own one.

Why don't you look at Bert's "CL seeding list". And don't check CL QR3 - the coeff of BATE there is replaced by Anderlecht's because UEFA expected Anderlecht to go through. Check a little bit downwards - check the seeding list for CL GS - tell me what are the coeffs of the bottom 2 teams in Pot 4? Which teams are the last 2?

Is that clear now or you just play the dumb?

No team takes the coeff of any other team. BATE has not the coeff of Anderlecht. Anderlecht OR Bate against Levski - that was the draw. UEFA cannot know that Bate would win. That's why the PAIR Anderlecht-Bate receives the coeff of Anderlecht.
For CL GS all QR3 games will be finished and UEFA will not need to draw "Levski or Bate" - so, every team is drawn with its OWN coeff.

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: darthvader Date: 12-08-2008, 15:39	I think I understand everything you tried to explain me. But my english is not so good so I have to be apologized. Anyways I now know the procedure... Bate Borisov and Partizan will BORROW not TAKE coefs of stronger clubs in CL GS draw. Do you think it is fair?

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: Kaiser Date: 12-08-2008, 15:44	Anyways I now know the procedure... Bate Borisov and Partizan will BORROW not TAKE coefs of stronger clubs in CL GS draw. Do you think it is fair? None will borrow or take anything in groups stage draw.

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: darthvader Date: 12-08-2008, 15:53	OK guys I understood it two yrs ago but was just kidding... I thought that somebody will recognize the irony ....

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: Kaiser Date: 12-08-2008, 15:57 Edited by: Kaiser at: 12-08-2008, 15:58	LOL

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: badgerboy Date: 12-08-2008, 16:56	darthvader Unfortunately some people in this world are as stupid as you've been pretending to be. And you acting like a twat doesn't do a lot to encourage people to bother trying to answer people who come here with genuine questions. Still - Kaiser found it funny - so all is not lost.

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: Kaiser Date: 12-08-2008, 17:22	Still - Kaiser found it funny - so all is not lost. I was just expressing your previous quite hot post in three letters. It's more rational, I think.

Re: UEFA CUP R1
Author: darthvader Date: 13-08-2008, 11:58	Well yes... This is not encouriging for people... I am sorry.. will not do it again.