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Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: bombadillo
Date: 28-03-2008, 01:13
Edited by: bombadillo
at: 28-03-2008, 08:26		I am confused by the qualification route for scottish clubs for next seasons UEFA cup places.
There was much talk about the scottish football association no longer allowing the cup runners up to enter the Uefa cup at the expense of the fourth place team in the league.
I believe a certain Mr Platini disagreed and therefore whoever finishes runner up in the cup, WILL be in the Uefa cup should the winners have already qualified for the champions league.
Furthermore I am told that if the winners of the cup finish first in the league then the runners up will indeed go into the UEFA cup. Where as if the cup winners finish second in the league (stil qualifying for the CL) then the cup runners up will NOT go into the UEFA cup. If true I assume that the fourth place team in the league WILLgo into the UEFA cup.
All a bit confusing I know, so can someone clear this up for me?

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: Ricardo
Date: 28-03-2008, 08:49 		Standard(?) procedure is that
1. Cup winner qualifies for UefaCup
2. If cupwinner qualifies for CL, then the cup runner up qualifies for UefaCUp
3. if cup runner up also qualifies for CL then next in the league qualifies for UefaCup

So it is about qualifying for CL, not about being forst or second in the league.
But this is how it works in Holland and sounds logical to me.

Though what about if the cupwinner drops back to UefaCup. This is currently only possible in CLQ3, but from next year on more. currently it doesn't influence the teams- actualy it can't as the teams should be subscribed before the matches of q1 start.

Also next year there will be seperate qualification roads for leagyue winners and runners up. Then I can imagine that a FA will want to change the rules for qulaification of cup runners up, though it is kind of hard to follow for the footballfan.

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: isidromv
Date: 28-03-2008, 09:19 		There were discussions last year about the cup runner-up not qualifying for UC at all, even if the cup winner qualifies for CL. In fact it was a proposal from Scottish FA.

But for next season the same procedure as in previous years will be used, as outlined by Ricardo:
- Cup winner to UC
- If Cup winner qualifies to CL, then Cup runner-up to UC.
- If Cup winner also qualifies to UC by league position, next team in league to UC.

For season 2009/2010, we still have to wait for the regulations regarding the new format, but I would guess that the cup runner-up will not qualify any longer to UC, as a first step towards Platini's original plan of qualifying Cup winner to CL.

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: badgerboy
Date: 28-03-2008, 09:21
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 28-03-2008, 09:34		We had a lengthy discussion about this on the past. I'm too lazy to look it up the link just now.

I was always of the opinion that - as the regulations are currently written - it's a UEFA rule that: a cup winner that has already qualified for the Champions League must be replaced by a cup runner-up who hasn't.

When the Scottish FA first "announced" they wouldn't be doing this any more some people said this was fine because the regulations use words like "may". But noone will convince me (unless it actually happens) that national associations have a free choice under the current regulations.

Of course new regulations are written every year & it's quite possible that in future (though I'd be surprised if it was before 2009-10) either: (a) national associations will be given the option of sending a cup runner up or the next highest team in the league or (b) the cup runner up will be excluded entirely.

From an English perspective I hope the latter happens mostly because the English FA are too stupid to make the "right decision" if given a choice.

OK. I just found the original "announcement" by Gordon Smith but also a story that gives a more realistic picture of the situation. This confirms nothing will happen before 2009-10.

Slightly off topic but it seems from this that Mr Smith is often prone to speaking before he engages his brain. He shouldn't worry though. I'm sure if the SFA do eventually sack him he'll easily get a job with the English version - or perhaps as William Gaillard's deputy at UEFA!

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: Overgame
Date: 28-03-2008, 10:10 		"The fourth-placed side in the SPL could still qualify for next season's UEFA Cup if the Scottish Cup final is contested by Scotland's two Champions League entrants."

Well, The easiest way to see the 4th-placed side qualified for UC is when the third-placed in the league wins the cup, or lose in final against one team qualfied for the CL.

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: bombadillo
Date: 28-03-2008, 19:40 		Thanks for those responses!

As you may have guessed from the late hour of the posting this was a pub arguement that I needed resolving.

My Aberdeen acquaintances were worried that in the event of finishing runners up to Rangers in the cup they would not be guaranteed UEFA cup football. Your answers should go some way to reassuring them.

Personally I think they were more worried about the thought of having to cheer on Rangers to win the league in order to guarantee there place in Europe.

On a similar note, I (and probably most neutral Scots) WILL be hoping that Aberdeen enter Europe in the cup slot. Their performances this season (including beating Copenhagen, drawing with Bayern etc) went a long way towards Scotland's excellent coefficient for 07/08. The best for some time I believe!

Previously teams like Livingstone, Dunfermline and of course the "mighty Gretna" have qualified through the Scottish cup spot. They subsequently went on to do very little to enhance our all important coefficient.

With teams like Queen of the South, Partick Thistle and St Johnstone still in this years cup, all I can say is: UP THE DONS!

Thanks

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: abzpablo
Date: 29-03-2008, 05:36 		I actually hate this rule and posted a rant a year or so back when bottom of the table Dunfermline qualified in this manner.


It would be ironic if my team, Aberdeen, were to be the beneficiaries, in this the last season of this runners-up rule applying.

Hopefully we win the cup to end all arguments - but first we need to take care of Queen of the South and probably Rangers, but some of our cup results have been great this season so who knows?


Another boost would be if we denied Dundee United UEFA qualification if they finish fourth - it would get them back for season 2004-05 when they did exactly the same thing to us, when we missed out on goal difference and they finished 9th and lost the cup final.

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: edqos
Date: 03-04-2008, 23:22 		I thought it was ludicrous that first division teams were allowed to represent Scotland and bog up our ranking in the past. However, for this season I've had a complete change of mind, because my first division team might only be one game away from Europe which would be a first for us (not counting a European tournament we won in 1936...).
Yes, its a Queen of the South supporter here, and I have to say we're quietly confident of achieving a result against Aberdeen, depending on which Aberdeen turn up. Any Aberdeen supporters I've been talking to are anything but over-confident, they've sufferred too much this season. I would also add if the season had started in November we'd be top of the first division now, and we've yet to let in a goal in the cup this season. Roll on the 12th April!

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: edqos
Date: 13-04-2008, 22:42 		After yesterday's epic 4-3 win over Aberdeen, only St Johnstone stand between us and Europe (unless Celtic miraculously win the league).
Stand by for the pundits who never look beyond Rangers and Celtic now calling it a 'disgrace' that QOS are in Europe, as though somehow we don't deserve it.
For the record, most Queens fans want St Johnstone in the cup final because our principal aim is to WIN THE CUP, Europe would be a bonus.
And credit to the Aberdeen fans who stayed behind to applaud the Queens players at the end.

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: neill
Date: 14-04-2008, 10:54 		To the QOTS fan, even if Rangers finish second in the league your team will qualify for the UEFA Cup if you play them in the final.

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: scroll
Date: 14-04-2008, 12:46 		"Stand by for the pundits who never look beyond Rangers and Celtic now calling it a 'disgrace' that QOS are in Europe, as though somehow we don't deserve it."

but it is a disgrace and you don't deserve to be in europe, I beleive teams should earn their place in europe through merit and not by avoiding the big teams in the draw.

the fact that Scotland are entering crap like this in europe, year after year is buggering up their ranking, costing them extra european places which could go to more deserving teams.

Re: Scottish entries 2008/09
Author: badgerboy
Date: 14-04-2008, 13:53 		I'm against cup losers in Europe (hardly a newsflash!) but at the same time I quite like it when it's a real minnow like Queen of the South (can't recall them ever being in the top flight in my footballing memory).

I do think one key point made by edqos though is that Europe really is a "bonus" for any such teams. The "big deal" is the actual Cup Final itself.

I would argue (as I have umpteen times already) that overall the bonus is an unnecessary one. Mostly because the instances of a Queen of the South benefitting from the rule is surely much rarer than that of a Borussia Dortmund, Lazio, Valencia etc. (big clubs who have poor league seasons but manage to conjure up a "get into Europe free card" regardless. Come on Getafe & come on Inter (!!!). Oh dear - I think I might be choking on that last bit...