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Author: Kiro
Date: 22-02-2008, 10:10
Edited by: Kiro
at: 22-02-2008, 10:10

9 years in row, Spain club dominated in eurocups. Yesrterday Villarreal and Atletico went out from Uefa cup, only Getafe passed. Sevilla and Real loosed in first matches in Champions league. From other side, Bolton, Everton and Totanham passed in Uefa cup, and all England clubs in champions league has good results and probably will pass in quater final. Maybe spring 2008. is time for changing, Premiership will became strongest division in Europe. Budget of England Premiership clubs aproximatly duble than clubs of Primera or Serie A. I think spring 2008. is time for changing, also factor money winning here.

What do You think about that? Or we will wait for that some months or some years?

Re: Spring 2008., time for changing?????
Author: Cirdan Date: 22-02-2008, 10:52	I'm not sure yet... England would have to make 20 points more than Spain in the rest of the season, possible, but it's a lot. Madrids 2:1 loss away is not a bad result, as is Sevillas 3:2 loss away, probably both will reach next round, Barca is through. On the other hand it will be very difficult for Arsenal, but also for all English UC teams.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 22-02-2008, 12:48

I think discussing the ranking & the strength of the leagues is a very different thing & I think Kiro is just talking about "strength" rather than the No. 1 spot.

Still - I would agree that the jury is still out.

Certainly prior to this season I considered La Liga very much the strongest in Europe - certainly in terms of depth.

But unexpected defeats for two Champions League chasing teams - one of them to a Premier League team still in relegation trouble - means the battle has been well & truly joined.

But whether it's the start of a trend or simply an example of the ebb & flow of results between the top three leagues, will take time -& I mean a few seasons not just the next round of competition, to tell.

Last year Spain had three teams in the UEFA Cup semi-finals. Maybe - though I doubt it - England could have three this year. Maybe Germany has at least as good a chance? But that wouldn't mean the Premier League (or Bundesliga) had "taken over". It would be just as likely for Spain to have three again next year as England - & I would say Italy but not enough of their teams seem to care about the UEFA Cup.

Author: Overgame
Date: 22-02-2008, 13:11

Just a detail : don't take the results in the league into account. I remember when a french team reached the UC Final (starting for IT !) and having a lot of problems in their league.

It happen every year.

About Spain vs England, we'll see. It's hard to just take into account one moment of the year, everything can go fast in football, and Chelsea, MU and Arsenal can be out with a one goal loss.

For Italy, next year will be imporant. Fiorentina seems to care about the UEFA Cup, we'll see if the others will. Italy is going back to normal (Milan, Juve, Ibter and Roma for CL) and the UEFA will be the only way for many teams to show themselves.

Author: blue_shark
Date: 22-02-2008, 13:34

if kiro is talking about 1st place england has only theoretical chances of passing spain this year. but next season everything is possible.
on the other hand, when it comes to league strength the matter should imply a deeper discussion. aside from the now big 3 in spain (real madrid, barcelona and sevilla), the rest of the points where gathered by small clubs, who put all their energy in thir uefa cup campaign, some of them with critical losses in the domestic league(i.e. espanyol- final in UC, not qualifying for the next season). the true value of these clubs is probably in between, but i am very sure that if they concentrated on the championship, like everybody else does, they wouldn't have the results they've had. so, i must disagree with badgerboy's opinion of a depth in the spanish league. of course you have a lot of mid table good teams, but the difference between them and the first 2 or 3 is huge.
in england there are 3 great teams who can challenge for the premiership each year. personally i foresee a decline for chelsea in the years to be and a rise for liverpool. still, the only english club that has had real and constant success in europe is liverpool. why you ask? because, even though mourinho and wenger are great foreign managers, they adaptted their styles to english football, which in arsenal's case is surprising when you count the english players on their squad. benitez, and even houllier, on the other hand brought a different style to the island. the english style has little chance of winning you an european cup nowadays and i guess everybody agrees. of course, liverpool have not won the premiership for over a decade now, but they have won the UC, the Cl and played another final.
talking about the best league and about the strongest one are two different things. the best implies the quality of the games, while the strength is brought to the table by absolute terms. if a club is strong it should beat anybody. you could have a good league with not so good teams, but with great games.
personally i think that the best league is the premiership, while the strongest is the serie a.

Author: Overgame
Date: 22-02-2008, 14:14

blue_shark : that's the most retarded excuse used by most of the coachs.

They're concentrating on the league, to end 5th and play the UC next year ? That's what happen in England every year !!!

Last year, Tottenham was eliminated by Sevilla. Tottenham was trying to end 5th (the top 4 was known for ages) and Sevilla was in battle for the tittle.

Newcastle was eliminated by AZ. Check the results of Newcastle after february last year.

Blackburn was out against Leverkusen.

Etc. No, that excuse is retarded and just used to justify defeats.

Author: blue_shark
Date: 22-02-2008, 14:27

overgame
then how do you explain espanyol's journey in the UC?

also, i said spanish clubs save their strength for UC, not english ones. as a liverpool fan i can tell you that fans would prefer winning the premiership to winning a CL and a UC.

as for newcastle, they are a very poor team nowadays. last year they passed the UCGS, which isn't hard to do.

tottenham on the other hand is a fluctuant team. just go back two weeks when they demolished arsenal in the league cup, while struggling in the premiership.

Author: Overgame
Date: 22-02-2008, 14:59

How do i explain it ? Simple : an european cup is different than a domestic league.

There are a lot of examples about teams far in their domestic league but really good in cups, and vice-versa.

Inter and Lyon are wonderful examples about how you can dominate a league and be out in the european cup. Inter is even always there in the Italian Cup !

A few years ago, i remember some french team who was close of relegation but played the final of the UC !!! Aachen passed the UCGS when they were playing in the second division, and when they were in battle for the promotion.

Again, a cup is different than a league. In a league, a draw is not a great result. In a Cup, it can be.

Actually, i hear a lot about how England has the best teams in Europe. But they explain the lack of trophees by lack of motivation, what a nonsense. when you are the best, you just win.

Author: Kiro
Date: 22-02-2008, 15:39

I think: Spanish clubs dominate in eurocupps during time 2000-2008. Last year it was also domination by spanish clubs in eurocups. But yesterday it was signal that: "Time is changing, it is order on Premiership or englend clubs

There is no doubt for me: "Primera division was best diviosion during last 8 yers. 12 teams from Primera was member of CL, only 7 english and 8 italina clubs. Differention between 18th place and first place is smaller in Primera than in Premiership. Points from eurocups show that Primera division was strongest. Better than premiership or Serie A. During last 8 years. I think everybody will agree with that. But now, after yesterday and reglation of Atletico and Villarreal, I think it is maybe time to change. Or is is oly bad day for spanish clubs?

And I ask is it t

Author: dzomba
Date: 22-02-2008, 16:00

Don't judge anything from one or two games, nor even from one season. Ups and downs are just normal in Eurocups, noone is immune to that. It's almost a rule that every country has one bad season in 5 years period (and one extraordinary). France, Netherlands, Romania this year. Right, question is here, but we can't answer till the next season. If this repeats, then it something.

But even not great, this season is not that bad for Spain. I'd rather say this season is extraordinary for England. Villarreal and Atletico were pretty dominant in Uefa cup this year, they have just played two games weaker, that's all.

But it looks like England is getting stronger, not that Spain is decreasing ...

Author: ralfinho
Date: 22-02-2008, 16:28

Too early to call it a time of change. Spain had an extraordinary good last season (19.0 ranking points) which - in terms of statistics - clearly was a blip (right English word?). This season, Spain will probably reach about 14-16 points again what would be "normal" and roundabout equal the English values of the last years. If Spain will gain less than these 14-16 points it will be another blip, this time downwards. I see no reason why Spain should permanently gain lower results than England.

To me, the more interesting question is if Italy will come back from the results of 06/07 and - probably - 07/08 (about 11-12 points, both influenced by the impacts of Calciopoli) to the level of Spain an England or if Italy will permamently stay in the region of France (beside its bad current year) and Germany.

Author: AlanK
Date: 22-02-2008, 17:31

Check out Spain's European performances in 2004-2005. Barsa and Real both went out in octavos of the CL; only Villarreal made it as far as quarterfinals, where they lost to AZ. There was a lot of "talk" about how Spain's turn at the top was over. Then came a year when it looked as though Spain would rank fourth in coefficient behind Rumania, England, and Italy, but three teams "took off" (Barsa, Villarreal, Sevilla) and Spain was second in coefficient. Last year, there was speculation that Spain was in a decline when Barsa and Real went out in octavos of the CL and Valencia lasted only a round longer, but then Sevilla, Espanyol, and Osasuna put it together. This year . . . Atleti and Villarreal are gone. If Barsa plays like they did against Celtic, if Real and Sevilla both win 1-0, if Getafe decides to pull an "Alaves," well, Spain will be on top again. If not, they could finish third to England and Germany, or even lower for the year. Ain't this fun!!!!! This is why I hyperventilate as I check scores when in the US and when I watch games in Spain--it's all up in the air, and anybody can beat anybody. Not every day, maybe, but once in a while . . .

Re: Spring 2008., time for changing?????
Author: bbi Date: 24-02-2008, 03:13	yes i think that 2008 is the time for a change. starting next season the rise of italian football will begin.