Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

Intertoto Cup
Author: neill Date: 01-02-2008, 15:23	I was reading this morning that the deadline for declaring an interest in the (final) Intertoto Cup was on 25 January. It appears that Manchester City have applied to represent England. Does anybody know of any other interested clubs? I am particularly interested in Scotland.

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: biagio Date: 02-02-2008, 07:25 Edited by: biagio at: 02-02-2008, 07:25	the only thing i found was that Athletic Bilbao applied too. http://www.athletic-club.net/acc/imprimir.asp?id=6408&idi=2

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 03-02-2008, 19:37	In the Netherlands all clubs have to take part if they qualify for it.

Author: 2mas.NO
Date: 24-03-2008, 15:38

Has anyone seen a list over participant nations?

Norway will surely take part. Rosenborg are the no 1 candidate, but will be replaced by Tromsų if Norway get a Fair Play spot in the UEFA Cup.

I guess UEFA spilt the nations in regions in this draw too.

Based on last time Norway took part: (2006 season), this was the "setup":

1st round:

Seeded:
Sweden
Ireland
Latvia
Finland
Iceland

Unseeded:
Lithuania
Estonia
Northern Ireland
Wales
Faroe Islands

2nd round:

Seeded:
Scotland
Denmark
Norway

3rd round:

Seeded:
England
Netherlands

I guess Belgium will take part this time. Where will they be putted?

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: bert.kassies Date: 26-03-2008, 20:05	This year all 50 associations will take part in the Intertoto Cup draw at April 21. See uefadirect - Number 72 - April 2008, page 13.

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: Kaiser Date: 26-03-2008, 20:22	This year all 50 associations will take part in the Intertoto Cup draw at April 21. All 50? I thought UEFA consists of 53 associations! Maybe minus Liechtenstein, but Andorra and San Marino as well?

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: bert.kassies Date: 26-03-2008, 20:40	Kaiser, if you take a look at the access list you will find only 50 associations entitled to play Intertoto.

Author: Kaiser
Date: 26-03-2008, 20:45

Kaiser, if you take a look at the access list you will find only 50 associations entitled to play Intertoto

Yes, I already know.

But it's quite bizarre to me that both Andorra and San Marino aren't allowed to exhibit their clubs in ITC. Platini proposes communism, right? So I wonder why hasn't he changed the Intertoto format allowing the simple associaltions (as simple as Germany, for example) to participate in ITC

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: bert.kassies Date: 26-03-2008, 20:54	So you want to change the format in this last and final edition of Intertoto?

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: Kaiser Date: 26-03-2008, 21:43	So you want to change the format in this last and final edition of Intertoto? The last thing should be always the best

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: ikoon Date: 26-03-2008, 22:09	I still don't understand why everyone bothers to answer kaiser's questions?

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: Kaiser Date: 26-03-2008, 22:12	I still don't understand why everyone bothers to answer kaiser's questions? Because I'm not ikoon

Author: badgerboy
Date: 27-03-2008, 10:10

Andorra & San Marino also have one less entry than everyone else in the main competitions.

This might well have something to do with their size - compared to just about everywhere else on the continent.

Yes there are other amateur leagues but I suspect San Marino & Andorra have fewer clubs & players than any other European country. Allowing them two teams each in Europe is "communist" enough.

And yes - and I never thought I'd write this - ikoon has a good point. Sometimes I wonder why we (and I in particular) do reply to some of Kaiser's (aka Mr Flooder's) posts.

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: executor Date: 27-03-2008, 11:50	However, badgerboy, you must admit that in this case it was a resonable question. Probably fueled by the fact that Andorra had a team in IT 2007 (yes, because Norway withdrew, but maybe he didn't know that).

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: isidromv Date: 27-03-2008, 12:37	I agree 2 teams playing in Europe for Andorra and San Marino are enough compared with almost all the other countries. But why Faroe are entitled to 2 UC spots (3 in the new format) and 1 IT and not Andorra and San Marino, their population are of the same order, and football is not more developped Faroe than in Andorra or San Marino.

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: Kaiser Date: 29-03-2008, 19:48	And yes - and I never thought I'd write this - ikoon has a good point. Sometimes I wonder why we (and I in particular) do reply to some of Kaiser's (aka Mr Flooder's) posts. badgerboy, I never thought that you can be so, so low!

Author: dzomba
Date: 31-03-2008, 13:29

Why are you so sure there will be representatives from every country ? There is a rule that club interested in participation must apply for it, but also at the end of a season it must be better than some place. I think for best countries it's 12th (not 100% sure).

For example if Bilbao applies (as the only Spanish club), and they end a season at 13th place, they would not be allowed to enter.
So we will not know list of participants until the end of a season.

But the draw will be made earlier with all countries who applied, and those clubs who are not allowed to enter will be replaced with clubs from other interested countries.

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: 2mas.NO Date: 31-03-2008, 14:27 Edited by: 2mas.NO at: 31-03-2008, 14:27	I really thought the nations had to participate with some club when they have decided to enter the draw? As I know, the Norwegian FA wouldn't enter before Tromsų promised to be back-up for Rosenborg.

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: 2mas.NO Date: 31-03-2008, 14:38	What is by the way likely to happen with the Nordic region in the draw? Will Belgium be moved to another region? My set-up: 1st round: Seeded: Sweden Ireland Latvia Finland Iceland Unseeded: Lithuania Estonia Northern Ireland Wales Faroe Islands 2nd round: Seeded: Scotland (Belgium) Denmark Norway 3rd round: Seeded: England Netherlands

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: dzomba Date: 31-03-2008, 14:45	@ 2mas.NO: I really thought the nations had to participate with some club when they have decided to enter the draw? Yes, they have to apply for a place, but that still doesn't guarantee they will have a representative, because of above mentioned rule.

Author: isidromv
Date: 31-03-2008, 16:29

@dzomba

An association can enter a team who finished below the 12th position in domestic league if it is approved by UEFA, and it has always been the case when an association has asked for it in the past.

But you are right that an association may fail to enter a team if all teams that applied to IT already qualifies to CL or UC, there are also some examples in the past seasons. And in this cases the association were fined by UEFA, that's way Norwegian FA didn't want to apply without a back-up to Rosenborg.

Author: dzomba
Date: 31-03-2008, 17:07
Edited by: dzomba
at: 31-03-2008, 17:13

The 12th, 9th, 6th place rule was set by UEFA, so i don't know why would they cancel their own rule ...

I don't know if it ever happened that teams below 12th, 9th, or 6th place were allowed to enter (since the rule was invented). For that i need to analize every participant, what i've never done.

I still think this is a rule, and i doubt UEFA made any exceptions, ever.

However, i didn't know that about punishing ...

What are the examples when a lower ranked team was allowed to enter ?
This place rule is not so old, it's applied only in last several years.

Also why would they punish Norway ?! , their participants are known much before the draw (they play summer league).

Author: badgerboy
Date: 31-03-2008, 18:10

Dzomba

The Intertoto regulations don't actually specify a specific position. They say a club must finish within four positions of a UEFA Cup spot. So the position varies per country.

The regulations also say that UEFA can grant exceptions to the above rule & they frequently do.

Cluj got to the final of the Intertoto in summer 2005 - but were only 11th in the Romanian top flight in 2004-05. Bradford City were 17th in England in 1999-2000 & were the second English Intertoto in summer 2000.

I'm pretty sure there are lots of examples like this - less in the last few seasons as the IT became more popular in some countries.

The rules about teams/associations being fined is pretty stupid. I've never worked out if the rules are actually stupid or they just confuse people & appear that way!

Under the current rules (at least as most people seem to understand them) an association can be fined if it applies for an IT spot & then the team (or teams) that wanted the spot qualify directly for Europe. Surely it should be possible for associations to say they want to enter but tell UEFA that it's possible they wont have an entry if clubs x & y qualify for Europe. This would be no problem at all if UEFA waited until domestic seasons were finished to make the draw. I see little benefit in having it earlier. Actual teams aren't known until later so it's not as if players & fans can make travel arrangements any quicker.

Author: dzomba
Date: 31-03-2008, 18:34
Edited by: dzomba
at: 31-03-2008, 18:51

@ badgerboy

This rule is not so old. It was not applied in 2000/01 season for sure.
For 2004/05 i am not sure.
I think this rule started with the change of format when Intertoto was reduced from five to three rounds, what was in 2006.

They invented it to prevent such things you mentioned, which happened before.

As i know it's not 4 places under UC place, but exactly 12th, 9th and 6th place (different for different countries). I do not have information if they have changed that rule this season.

Look guys, you haven't convinced me. I am 100% sure that rule existed that way. Maybe it has changed, but that was before. Discussing about was there any exception is difficult. Do you really know something for sure (written officially) or is it just presumption. We know that UEFA makes exceptions sometimes with different reasons (like allowing 5 CL participants to England). I cannot say that there were no exceptions because it's hard to prove anything, it's too detailed and 'inside UEFA' information. But hasn't anyone ever anywhere heard of something like that ? Haven't anyone read in some newspapers something ?

Right now i don't know where to search for exact information about that, too. I will try to find something official about it.

EDIT: OK, i found that: 4 places under UC spot. But that must be new, it wasn't originaly that way.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 31-03-2008, 21:14

dzomba said: "Why are you so sure there will be representatives from every country?"

Because UEFA said so. See uefadirect - Number 72 - April 2008, page 13.

dzomba said: "There is a rule that club interested in participation must apply for it."

That's no rule. UEFA just requires that associations put a request to take part, and optionally apply for an additional place. It is up to the associations how to get commitment from the clubs. E.g. in the Netherlands every club has to take part when they qualify. But many associations demand that clubs apply beforehand.

And badgerboy is right that UEFA easily grant exeptions on the "max 4 places under UC spot" rule.

Author: ioio
Date: 31-03-2008, 22:07

Re the list above for the Northern region, the Polish club came in second round in the northern region last year - and were expelled following their fans rioting in the game against Vetra. This year's Access List shows a Polish Club to come in at Round 1. Does this mean that they will be transferred to another region ? My club - Rhyl from Wales - will be unseeded in the first round northern region. Can I take it that the only possible opponents then are Efsborg (Sweden), Skonto (Latvia), Ekranes (Lithuania), TPS (Finland) and Bohemians (Ireland) ?
No prize for guessing which of those five we would want to be drawn against !

Author: dzomba
Date: 01-04-2008, 07:41

@ bert: ''dzomba said: "Why are you so sure there will be representatives from every country?"
Because UEFA said so. See uefadirect - Number 72 - April 2008, page 13.''

I know that. But what i wanted to point out is that applying for a place doesn't automatically mean there will be a participant from that country. All countries will participate in the draw, but final access list can differ from that. It already happened before ...

Discussing about other things is very difficult, because UEFA slightly changes rules almost every season. So i can't conclude if there were some exceptions or not. Such ''inside information'' are not publicized very often.

Re: Intertoto Cup
Author: 2mas.NO Date: 02-04-2008, 23:01	ioio: I saw Poland was in the Northern region last year, but I guess they won't be this year. But what does happen in the 2nd round?