Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

Author: haha
Date: 18-10-2007, 09:38
Edited by: haha
at: 18-10-2007, 10:10

it seems that the smaller teams of romania are taking it up to the big three(rapid,steaua and dinamo)...could we finally see a smaller team winning the title or making the champions league.
the current top 7 looks like this:
1 cluj -played 10 -24 points
2 urziceni -played 10 -23 points
3 Poli timisoara -played 10 - 21 points
4 Vaslui - played 10 - 20 points
5 Rapid Bucharest -played 9 - 19 points
6 steaua bucharest -played 9 - 18 points
7 dinamo bucharest -played 9 - 17 points

tell me your thoughts about this and say if you think the gap is smaller between the bigger and smaller teams. thanks

tell me your thoughts about and say if you think the gap is smaller between the bigger and smaller teams. thanks

Author: moro
Date: 18-10-2007, 11:25
Edited by: moro
at: 18-10-2007, 11:26

It's a bad ideea to open this topic here for many reasons:
1. Bert will ask you to move it on Forum 2, and he'll be right. There is already a topic about our ch-ship there. And it has nothing connected to Uefa coef.
2. It'll be the starting point of decent injuries between romanian forum-users here. It'll bring back Ikoon, who's sleeping from a while.
3. The gap is obviously to small to discuss it. In two rounds, the ranking can be reversed upside down.
4. Most of non-romanian forum users dont care. Maybe in april-may, when the team-ranking for next year will be determined by teams participating in Europe.

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: cska Date: 18-10-2007, 12:10	Moro, it has relation with coeffs. Based on current standings - what will happen to RO coeff if the current top 4 qualify for European football and none of Steaua, Rapid or Dinamo qualify??? All your teams will be unseeded and your coeff will tend to 0,000 next year. What's going on with your "big 3"???

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: haha Date: 18-10-2007, 13:31 Edited by: haha at: 18-10-2007, 13:31	thanks cska, come on cluj

Author: moro
Date: 18-10-2007, 13:32

Steaua and Dinamo have one more game to play against mediocre teams, you can add 3 points and see them in top 6.
If CFR Cluj wins the title, they enter CLGS directly. If what you call "big 3" finish on 4-6, they'll all be well seeded in UC and this is the best situation.
Best: 3 seeded teams (UC or CLqr3) plus a "new" team to win the title directly in GS.
Worst: only 3 teams seeded, one of them to win the title, wich leave space for 3 teams not-seeded in UC. This is worst, because I dont see Bucarest teams out of top 6 (and there's one more chance in Cup, in IT, etc).

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: haha Date: 18-10-2007, 13:42 Edited by: haha at: 18-10-2007, 13:46	i agree with you there moro because it is still very early in the season and i feel that rapid are dinamo's and steaua's main challengers although cluj could sneak in second. But if they do finish second, chances are they will face a big team like liverpool, roma etc in qualifying round and coefficient for romania will go even further down.

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: moro Date: 18-10-2007, 14:46	OK, but I never said Cluj will end on second, to me they were and still are big favorits to win the title And, despite many people who laughed at me, I predicted Unirea Urziceni to finish on Uefa spot, in front of Steaua

Author: cska
Date: 18-10-2007, 14:50

moro
I would not say that your idea puts RO teams in best position. If your CL teams will be newcommers, then you have 1 pot 4 in GS and 1 unseeded in QR3 + same in UC R1.
On the other hand, I think that for Steaua, Rapid or Dinamo would be much better if they qualified for CL, because even failure in QR3 (where Steaua is seeded) still guarantees a spot in UC R1, which is not guaranteed if you meet a strong Israeli or Cypriot team in UC QR2. Also, participation in CL GS gives a bonus of 3 pts and even if RO team is 3rd, they get to UC last 32.
And also, I think that coeffs serve for the purpose to have more teams in European cups and to have teams more often in CL GS. So, I'm sure you would prefer Steaua, Dinamo or Rapid directly in CL GS, even if it is not optimal for RO coeff.
But my curiosity was about the "big 3" right now. Isn't it a big surprise that ALL of them are outside the top 3 in the league? In Bulgaria, every year either CSKA or Levski (or both) competes for the title and is minimum 2nd. They never dropped below 4th place in the last 5 years.
And, by the way, if your "big 3" are out of CL next year, won't they degrade in quality without the CL money? If your former "underdogs" now beat them, maybe they lost some of their power. At least, it was visible in UC this year. Also, Steaua in GS is not convincing either.

Author: moro
Date: 18-10-2007, 15:30

I must remind you I'm talking in "my name" and Steaua people on this forum never agree on that.
About eventual "degradation" of teams without cL money - well, until now only Steaua tasted it, so there's no possible degradation.
I prefer a strong team in CL pot 4 (as CFR is, but they need some more time together and more experience - one year it's enough), than Steaua who showed us the limits, Dinamo, the eternal "oh my god, they scored, we're screw". And I'd also prefer Rapid, because another mental (at least they massed Nurenberg and tried to qualify until the last second, wich Dinamo wasnt able to do against Benfica, lazio or Elfsborg).

In ch-ship - last years the difference was made with little investment: if Bucarest's teams bought a lot of good players with something like 10 millions (total/year), now many teams can do it because new rich-people are in charge, while "big 3" stagnated. Urziceni has a young and promissing team almost for free, they pay 50-100.000 dollars/year salary for every player (maybe 1-2 exceptions), they didnt invested much money in transfers bu they chosed well.
CFR invested 15-20 millions in foreigners, also good investment, now they need to build the team, they're strong.
Timisoara bring Dushan Urin as a trainer (ex-Mlada Boleslav) and kept same team wich seemed disastrous last year, they look good and even promoted two young players at the national teams (big one and under 21).
Vaslui is a big surprise for me, they are very strong at home, they deceived against Steaua in Bucarest (or maybe Steaua was good). Munteanu seems to be a good trainer, since he was in charge of CFR Cluj and put them on second place last year after ten rounds even without many of those portuguese players.
Meanwhile Rapid bought nothing spectacular, lost two good trainers and will probably once again lost the battle breathless in the end of the ch-ship. Dinamo is weak, they lost moral and Zicu (injured, come-back in spring).
If Steaua's boss dont change his attitude (we say he's billionair, so he could easily invest 50 millions if he wants to pass to another level) - then I predict that Bucarest will be shadowed by other cities.

Author: bbi
Date: 18-10-2007, 16:21

the "big 3" will catch up. this is not the only championship or country in which a few underdogs are in the first place and in the end the big teams manage to get back in. also don't ferget to add the 3 points to steaua dinamo and rapid and you will see a very small difrence that can be overtaken just by the direct match. the only team that can compare to the bucharest teams is cfr cluj. the first 4 spots will be ocupied by steaua dinamo rapid and cfr. it is almost imposible to predict what will be the position of the first 4 but you can be pretty sure that they will be the first 4 teams in romania.

Author: moro
Date: 18-10-2007, 16:26
Edited by: moro
at: 18-10-2007, 16:27

Bbi said " this is not the only championship or country in which a few underdogs are in the first place and in the end the big teams manage to get back in"

Give me a decent example!

There are however not one, not two, but 4 underdogs to pass! So one direct game is not enough. Not to mention that losing one of those direct-games while all others are winning in the round, put you in big trouble.That's why the situation looks bad for Bucarest.

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: bbi Date: 18-10-2007, 17:57	when i said that a direct match will do it i meant that if steaua will win all the matches they will be champoins they don't have to wait for other teams to make a mistake. and you want me to give you an example just luck at last year standings at the middle of the season in all of europe and please tell how many of them finshed like that.

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: bbi Date: 18-10-2007, 18:00 Edited by: bbi at: 18-10-2007, 18:01	just wait for the winter break you will have a surprise. but still i don't understand what is wrong with you. can't somebody say a difrent opinion with out you starting to show him that he doesn't know a bit a football and that he is totaly wrong.

Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua
Date: 18-10-2007, 18:56

Moro, right now you have:

1. CFR Cluj 10 games 24p
2. Unirea Urziceni 10 23p
3. Poli Tm. 10 21p
4. Vaslui 10 20p
5. Rapid 9 19p
6. Steaua 9 18p
7. Dinamo 9 17p

Rapid, Steaua and Dinamo should win the game they have less. So you would have:

1. CFR Cluj 24p
2. Unirea Urziceni 23p
3. Rapid 22p
4. Poli Tm. 21p
5. Steaua 21p
6. Dinamo 20p

So the deference is not that big. And I would bet you that by winter Rapid, Steaua and Dinamo will be in top 4.

Author: moro
Date: 18-10-2007, 19:01
Edited by: moro
at: 18-10-2007, 19:02

Bbi, you were the one contradicting my opinions, I came after you. It's called a discussion, we dont need to agree each other, man!!!
I only asked you examples of reversing ranking, you didnt find. I'll give you: Italy, France, Romania - champions decided before Christms (Inter, Lyon, Dinamo); England, Spain, Holland, Portugal - fight on two or three teams all along the season. There were only few intruders and for few rounds (the only example that comes to my mind is Twente), never 3 or 4 underdogs.

But you know what? Steaua's gonna win all games 4-1 in the ch-ship, they'll beat Sevilla, Slavia and Arsenal, then they'll beat MU and heroically lose the final against Bar�a (4-5 AET). Is this OK now?

See Haha? I told you they'll all wake up against!

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: moro Date: 18-10-2007, 19:04	But Cosmin, that's what I said in the top of the page!!! Only you should add that Dinamo will have an infernal programm, like Unirea Urziceni (bit less), while Steaua will have an easier one, but busy with CL.

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: Cirdan Date: 18-10-2007, 19:06	CSKA: "...which is not guaranteed if you meet a strong Israeli or Cypriot team in UC QR2." Romanian teams will be qualified for UCR1 next year, they won't need to play UC QR2, except for a possible winner of the intertoto cup.

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: bbi Date: 18-10-2007, 19:13 Edited by: bbi at: 18-10-2007, 19:14	ok moro if you think that what can i add. i'll just try to avoid you because i would like to have decent discussion not what you call a discussion.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 18-10-2007, 19:37

Actually I'm pretty surprised at just how "predictable" things appear to be pretty much all over Europe these days.

Of course I already knew the same teams seem to end up winning things in the end. But even at this stage of the season - with most teams having played less than 10 games - the favourites are leading almost everywhere.

Yes there are a few "big teams" doing badly and a few "less big" ones exceeding expectations. Karlsruhe, Nancy, Le Mans, Manchester City & Sivasspor would all fit in the latter category. But they are all surrounded by teams you would expect to be there.

Romania is indeed the big exception. All three "big clubs" outside the top four. For the sake of diversity long may it continue...

Author: ikoon
Date: 19-10-2007, 07:17

This situation is part of some circumstances: like numerous media scandals, fans scandals, coach changings, injured players (Steaua at least), players low morales following the unexpected early elimination from eurocups (at least Dinamo and Rapid), delayed matches. The situation will change as soon as the 3 new coaches from the 3 Bucharest teams will acomplish a competitive team system with the valuable and experienced players they have, and the ones that are injured will recover. The distance of the top 3 spots, is small to be a big concern, in the conditions Steaua and Dinamo played without 7-8 key players injured untill now, each.

Author: moro
Date: 19-10-2007, 08:41

Steaua and Dinamo played without 7-8 injured key-players each?
You enterred again in the "joke-phase"?
There are few players injured, but they're not better than those playing now. One exception for each team: Badea (Steaua) and Zicu (Dinamo) - they're really good. Badea's back.
We need massiv investments in order to buy really good players from "outside", or we'll stay as we are. Wich is not bad performance, but we cant ask for more.

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua Date: 19-10-2007, 09:03	moro, here's the list of players for Steaua that didn't play at the start of the season or played only a few games: Radoi, Plesan, Iacob, Ghionea, Cristocea, Emeghara, Badea. All of them are first team players.

Author: moro
Date: 19-10-2007, 11:21

Cosmin said about Steaua's injuries: "Radoi, Plesan, Iacob, Ghionea, Cristocea, Emeghara, Badea. All of them are first team players"

The joke-phase is going on.
Let's see:
Radoi - played mediocre, like all team. he only missed last three or four games, because until the CLGS phase he was there.
Plesan - he played one game for Steaua, now you're considering him Steaua key player?
Iacob was bad last year when he was fit, he's still bad. He's not one of first 11, he'll never be.
Cristocea in first 11?

Badea was only recently injured and let's remember he almost never started the game on the field, people are not pleased by his game, he's a reserve.
Emeghara came back and was bad. Let's see if time will improve his play.
You only have a point with Ghionea, wich is a mediocre defender (can you compare him with Goian?). The one who took his place (from Rapid, I dont remember his name) - is not worst.
And the only one that Steaua relly missed, Badea.

Author: moro
Date: 19-10-2007, 11:28

You must open eyes and see that reserves are bad, first 11 are mediocre. I mean Steaua will never progress this way, maybe they'll manage to grab another CLGS but once again make us ashamed... We have good romanian players outside, why dont Becali try to bring them? The young Keseru, future great forward probably cheap, Mutu... he costed arround 10 millions I guess, is not that much if he can get you to CLQF, now the price is up. And there is a whole list...

Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua
Date: 19-10-2007, 11:54
Edited by: cosmin_ultrasteaua
at: 19-10-2007, 11:57

Radoi was out before the GS. He didn't even play against Bate. I think the game against Cluj was the last one he played. And he's not a mediocre player. He is one of the best players Romania have right now.

Plesan played 2 game in the league and in both of them was very good. So yes, this year he would have been one of the key players for the team.

Iacob was bad last year when fit? You got to kiding me. Even now, coming after an other injury he is our best CF. Scored 2 against Dacia Mioveni last round.

Cristocea was in the first 11 last year and would have been this year too had it not been for that injury.

Emeghara was bad? He was very good against Bacau, Arsenal and Mioveni. The only 3 games he played so far.

Ghionea was a starter the NT before his injury and was considered a better CB then Goian at that moment. Rada was good so no problems there.

EDIT: We have such a bad team that we are the only ones in Europe. AGAIN. Your beloved CFR ashemed us by losing to a team from Cyprus. For the first time ever in Romanias history. Now that's bad.

Author: moro
Date: 19-10-2007, 13:35

Cosmin, believe me CFR is not at all "my beloved". Take my posts last year - I said I dont like this team. This year I saw them playing before the ch-ship started and I quickly understood is something different from what we see in Romania (of course, because so many latin players) and saw them champions. Then some of Steaua fans forum-users and few "outsiders" laughed at me, so now it became a "personal affair" and I really wish that title for them; same thing works for Unirea Urziceni, wich I saw in UC zone (wich is still very probable) and in front of Steaua (still possible, although I know it was risky to say that).
I'm supporting 100% Steaua, Dinamo or Galati, etc, in Europe. 100%. And I'm so pleased that Romania progressed so much in football last years, that I want to see Romania raising even more. And I dont need 5 or 10 years in CLGS to lose each and every game against big names, to realise we need few talented and not cheap players from outside. It must be done now, because now we are in position to put more teams in CL, 5 years from now it'll be to late.

About players, I really dont appreciated Iacob, Emeghara and Cristocea's performances. And you cant jump to conclusions after 2 or 3 games.
Remember most of romanian press said Radoi played bad all along this autumn, I have the same opinion and dont even see him in the national team. The past is past.
And this is a cheap excuse, injured players. A great team must have 18 players at the same level. You cant hide behind the doctor every time.

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua Date: 19-10-2007, 14:22	moro, you do know what Halagian said before wining the title with FC Arges. Astia sunt, cu astia jucam. Same thing now. This are the players we have. Steaua can't buy $5 mil players, no Ro team can.

Author: moro
Date: 19-10-2007, 14:41

Times has changed. A house costs now 1 million.
They say Becali, Steaua's boss, has 3 billions dollars, of course, not in cash. I only see two possibilities:
1. It's not true - and it explains he dont invests much anymore
2. It's true, but he has a reason not to invest - I doubt about this, regarding his carracter, his will to surpass everybody. Becali uber alles.
I really hope he will, because if he does, he will once again makes everybody do/try to do as he does, and this will be good for our football.

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua Date: 19-10-2007, 17:31	It's easy to say invest more money when it's not your money. No body make that kind of money if they where to just spend it away.

Re: smaller romanian teams
Author: moro Date: 19-10-2007, 17:35	Woaw. Did he get those money working? Did he got it from his parents? No. He stealed the money (well, now we call it bussiness and paper-work with large fields). That's why it's easy to spend.