Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

Celtic and Milan
Author: mxcolin Date: 04-10-2007, 11:44	Will the fact that Milan are Italian mean that Celtic will face a much harder punishment for last night? I know there is one rulebook for Spain, Italy and England and then another rule book for everyone else.

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: moro Date: 04-10-2007, 12:38	Milan will remain a thiefs-team at least ten years from now for what they did. This is the time they must do. Dida proved yesterday he deserve an extention.

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: isidromv Date: 04-10-2007, 13:29	I've read in a Spanish newpaper that Milan will not challenge the match result. Nevertheless I think Celtic will be punished with some home matches in an empty stadium, at least, for allowing that person entering the pitch. About Dida, he should be banned at least 2 matches according to the new rule about simulated injuries discussed in another topic.

Author: KingofLyon
Date: 05-10-2007, 20:09

The problem with Celtic is that they are always in denial.

Their fans have a long record of attacking supporters and players of other teams, not to mention referees. At the same time they whinge like 10 year olds about the songs sung by others, when they themselves sing many similar songs, and worse, glorifying terrorism.

They won a UEFA award for their conduct against Porto at the Seville UEFA Cup final. They took 30,000 supporters and made a lot of noise. Fair enough. But wouldn't the fans of Panathinaikos, Red Star, Fenerbahce, Rangers or Galatsaray have done the same?

Celtic fans invaded the pitch for the third time this season on Wednesday. There have been many similar instances in the past including very serious attacks on players (Rapid Vienna, and Rangers to name a couple) and the referee during the derby against Rangers. There was a bottle throwing incident against a journalist coach in Milan last season, and rioting away to Newcastle as well. (I could go on).

They should be treated the same way as any other delinquent fans, and there is no justification for treatment other than that dished out
to Denmark recently.

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: macca67 Date: 06-10-2007, 15:42 Edited by: macca67 at: 06-10-2007, 15:42	Rangers fan by any chance, KingofLyon?! If you are, then your own club's disciplinary record in Europe over the years doesn't really entitle you to 'throw stones' does it?

Author: Londonium
Date: 06-10-2007, 15:53

Only bitter Rangers fans like the one above, currently in the shadow of their better, more illustrious Glasgow neighbours, would manage to spout such a vast array of incorrect drivel.

We don't need to go back decades for Rangers fans' (plural) misbehaviour. Rangers and their fans have been in the dock and actually fined by UEFA twice in the last 2 seasons for 3 separate offenses involving HUNDREDS of fans.

One for dozens of their fans rioting and attacking an opposition team bus against Villareal AND for hundreds of their fans singing banned bigoted songs when playing Villareal.
Again for serious misconduct of hundreds of their fans AND sectarian singing when playing Osasuna.

The UEFA and FIFA awards for the Celtic fans in the 2003 UEFA cup were because of one of the largest movement of football fans (68-80000, more than double what the idiot above claims) went peacefully. Rangers as shown above, would have caused riots had they been able to take the same numbers.

This idiot fan who touched Dida is banned from Celtic Park for life and in my opinion should be given jail. Dida should also be heavily censured. Celtic's record of fan behaviour is otherwise exemplary. The friendly ties celtic have with clubs all over Europe and England (where Rangers simply create enemies) is testament to that.

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: Overgame Date: 07-10-2007, 02:15	I didn't wanted to go into that problem, but ou really like to invert the problem:. Dida is stupid and should get a 2 match ban. Ok. But don't hide the facts : a 'supporter' was on the field, the security is NOT assured, and Celtic should get a punishment. That's all. If the 'diot' was less 'funny', he could have really injured Dida.

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: greece_2004 Date: 07-10-2007, 06:07	i think celtic should get a fine. atleast. not deduction of points. why does a club has to suffer because of a single IDIOT?

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: Overgame Date: 07-10-2007, 10:45	Of course no point deduction.

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: mckenzie87 Date: 08-10-2007, 01:36	Celtic should just get a fine for Wednesday. However I would like to know why they think there fans are greatest in the world Some people say they took 80,000 to Seville some say, 90,000 some say, 100,000 and some say 125,000. So spare me the Seville garbage. No accurate figure has been issued. No-one else apart from them think they are the greatest.

Author: RD
Date: 09-10-2007, 13:14

Surely if UEFA are investigating simulation in the Celtic v Milan game then they should check out the simulation from both teams all the way through the game and not just one isolated incident. Both teams were guilty of blatant diving.
In fact if they sit down and check simulation in every Champions League game and then dish out appropriate punishment to players and clubs involved, then it would go a long way to wiping out the biggest problem in the game today.
Cheating.

Author: blackbull
Date: 10-10-2007, 18:18

There have now been 6 incidents in the last 25 years of Celtic fans attacking opposition players on the pitch.
No Celtic fan can deny this and UEFA must take action as i know of no other club were players have been attacked on the pitch in such abundance! To put people who may not know of Celtic's murky past in the picture even their present manager has been assaulted TWICE by Celtic fans on the field of play. And Rangers have absolutely nothing to do with this so to bring them up is pointless. Celtic must start taking responsibility for their fans.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 11-10-2007, 10:46
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 11-10-2007, 10:56

"There have now been 6 incidents in the last 25 years of Celtic fans attacking opposition players on the pitch.
No Celtic fan can deny this"

Is this statistic taken from somewhere else - some unbiased journalistic masterpiece perhaps - or have you seriously been keeping count of this for the last 25 years?

I mean we're going back to the dark & primitive days of 1982 here. Didn't some clubs have up to six incidents a match back then?

And the other aspect I'd debate is the word "attacking". If Dida was "attacked" I'm Chinese. Has Celtic had any streakers invade the pitch in the last 25 years and make a beeline for a particular player? Have Rangers?

If they have then by your definition of "attack" they must count in the six. Erica Roe - urban terrorist - where are you now?

Edit: For anyone who doesn't know who Erica Roe is I found this link

Anyone under the age of 18 or easily shocked by the naked female figure - should not click it. The link - someone's list of the Top Ten Female Streakers - is mostly worth it because it shows someone streaked at a bowls match - a concept I find even more ludicrous than the use of the word "attacked" and Dida in the same sentence.

Author: rbr
Date: 11-10-2007, 12:01

The problem with this particular case is that the minute it happened it was always going to be a Rangers v Celtic tit for tat ,yes Rangers have been fined twice recently once for a bottle being thrown at Villareal's team bus ,the occasion where Celtic fans threw a bottle at the scottish press bus was very quickly brushed under the carpet , the fact it hit the windows where a journalist by the name of Ronnie Cullywas sitting was most ironis especially as he refused to mention it in his column much to the amusement of the rest of the press core.
The second time was when a youtube video of Rangers fans singing "the billy boys" was brought to the attention of UEFA by a scottish journalist , the same video site has numerous clips of other clubs supporters including Celtic signing offensive songs and also the Celtic fans rioting in Newcastle and in London .

Rangers have never had a problem with fans invading the pitch and attacking opposing teams players , Celtic have a long list including , the Rangers chairman Sir David Murray who doesn't go to Celticpark after what happened the last time ,Ally Maxwell, and Andy Goram , John Brown even Referees have been targeted as well as the previous manager Paul Le Guen who was abused and spat on by Celtic fans at Tynecastle .

The only time in recent years when a fan invaded the pitch was recently at the uefa game against the israeli team and low and behold it turned out his name was sean gallagher a celtic fan who wanted to make a protest against the palestinian problem.

On the uefa cup run , two small points at Blackburn on the way to Seville the trouble at the game led to the most arrests at a game in England for 15 years , and led the police chief in charge of that game to call for Celtic to be banned fron England ,and when they were returning fronm Villereal after being refused more drink again Celtic fans rioted and caused the flight to an emergency landing at Cardiff where 27 fans were arrested and banned from the airline .

So whilst a small fine is all Celtic should get , for their fans to some how yet again paint a picture of a poor oppressed club forever being persecuted then think again and wake up

Author: moro
Date: 11-10-2007, 12:18

I'm completely neutral on this one.
And as a neutral, I think there's absolutely no logical possibility to let Celtic play at home next two games. Next time maybe the fan in the field will have a gun or a knife, who knows. It happened, it may happens again.
If Celtic dont get a stadium-ban for this, it's ridiculous in my opinion.
There was "only" a fan on the field, but 50 more at one meter from getting in. They were happy, I understand. But next tome they could be very angry.

Author: rbr
Date: 11-10-2007, 16:49

moro , you are taking a very risky view by siding against celtic ,their fans occupy a place far higher and more morale than any other fans in world football and that is why one of their nicknames,mope's , is so ammusing (most offended people ever ), what you must realise is that it is all a conspiracy against them and that is the reason that the venim and anger is being directed against Dida , yes he was an idiot , but the point that you brought up was the most valid , he was on the park and he did touch the player end of arguement , unless you are a mope !!!!!!!

Author: nightfire
Date: 11-10-2007, 18:29
Edited by: nightfire
at: 11-10-2007, 18:31

rbr comments - where do we start

"Rangers have never had a problem with fans invading the pitch and attacking opposing teams players" - that's a wind-up - isn't it?

1. I have been attending football matches since the 1960s. Maybe rbr can explain to everyone what Rangers fans were doing on the pitch at the 1965 Scottish League Cup Final at Hampden Park. Just in case he has forgotten, they attacked Celtic players whilst they were taking a traditional Lap of Honour. The Rangers fans actions ensured that Laps of Honour were banned at Hampden Park for many years. Also 1968, at Ibrox v Celtic & 1969 at Hampden v Celtic and of course let us not forget Barcelona 1972 - Scotland's Greatest Shame.

2. Arrests at Blackburn just how did it compare with a Rangers good time friendly at Bradford.

3. As for flight back from Spain via Cardiff - it was Vigo, not Villarreal but that aside, your comment about 27 arrests is just a blatant lie but nothing new there then. I was on the flight and know exactly what happened and also know who picked up the bill. Maybe you will try and save face but linking us to the article that confirms your lies.

Celtic will be punished for what the idiot did that night against Milan. They are responsible for security as Rangers were when the protester invaded the field against Macabbi - UEFA do not give a toss who the fan supports but in that case the invader did not approach a player and therefore received a small fine.

Whilst the world has laughed at Dida's antics, Celtic will still be fined more than Rangers because the invader approached the player - this is not unlike the pitch invasion in 2005 CL Semi Final at Villarreal when an invader tried to pin a Barca shirt on Thierry Henry - the action on Villarreal was what?

Author: moro
Date: 11-10-2007, 18:34

Dont know what "mope" means, but doesnt matter.
I'm against nobody, Celtic or other fans. I precised I'm completely neutral on this one, maybe even not, cause I hate Milan because of Pippo and because of the stealling problem in 2006.

What that guy did in Glasgow was stupid, he put in danger his club. It was joy, but once again, if it was a penalty at the last second after another Inzaghi simulation, to give Milan a 2-1 win, you must ask yourself what the guy could have done. I do.
We must express our joy in another way. A civilised one.

Author: rbr
Date: 11-10-2007, 18:39

nightfire you burst your own bubble by having to go back over 40 years , christ I wasn't even born then ,if you want to go back through time we can add Rapid Vienna at Parkhead , the attack at old trafford , attacks on your present manager whilst playing for aberdeen , attacks on mo Johnston at Ibrox , the list is endless , as for the numbers of arrests at blackburn thats public record and there must have been about 10,000 of you lot on the flight that landed at Cardiff the number of fans who claim to have been on it , simillar to the 3000000 fans you took to seville , but hey none of it happened its all a conspiracy prat

Author: nightfire
Date: 11-10-2007, 18:42
Edited by: nightfire
at: 11-10-2007, 18:50

Come on then gives us a link to the article that says 27 were arrested on the flight - it's your chance not to be branded a laughing stock and by the way no one will ever forget Barcelona 1972 because of the shame your mob brought on Scottish football.

As for recent times is beating up the locals in places like Pamplona just a way of getting to know them and Nazi salutes at Ibrox against German teams and even in Israel - oh dear

Author: rbr
Date: 11-10-2007, 19:00
Edited by: rbr
at: 11-10-2007, 19:03

nightfire , just have the decency to admit it happened I work in NATS , (air traffic control to you ) I know exactly what happened and the messages put through from the cockpit , it's very rare for a flight to declare pan pan (mayday), as for Barcelona yes there was trouble but if you knew your history you would infact find Rangers are very highly regarded by the people of Barcelona as we were the only fans to ever give Franco's thugs a hiding ,(look up Franco and you will get what i mean ) as for the red hand of ulster being confused with nazi gestures only celtic fans could come up with that , a bit like celtic fans giving the plane gesture to claudio reyna just after 9/11 .

If you look at your post (like I have said you do not admit to anything ever) , it's never celtic or their fans fault its all everyone else's, like when you sing about murdering terrorists that maim and kill innocent children in northern ireland and then name supporters clubs after them , its all just a laugh to you lot , how could any one ever be offended by the jolly celtic

Author: nightfire
Date: 11-10-2007, 19:25
Edited by: nightfire
at: 11-10-2007, 19:30

I think you will find your club has banned your fan for a Nazi salute as for the made up Red Hand salute. Get this, the world sees them for what they are - Nazi salutes

I don't care about your job - my position afforded me some detailed discussions with the CAA & Department of Transport but all of that is neither here nor there.

One last chance or be labelled a liar - Just link me to the article that states 27 people on that flight were arrested.

As for what I have said, I think you will find that I have accepted that Celtic will be punished for what happened as Security is their responsibility and therefore no one can argue with that. Where as in your response to Barcelona 1972 you say "there was trouble" that's got to be the biggest understatment of the century - well done. You then try and defend it by legitimising the beating up of police officers as though you were on some political crusade - you are starting to believe everything that rabid fanzine website makes up (sorry, tells you)

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: badgerboy Date: 11-10-2007, 20:27	Six arrested & 12 detained should the numbers be that important. Dida banned for two games & Celtic fined �35760 - half suspended for two years

Author: rbr
Date: 11-10-2007, 20:52
Edited by: rbr
at: 11-10-2007, 20:58

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2002/12/13/story80568.asp

badgerboy, and nightfire accept my appologies for getting the numbers wrong , here is the link as asked , as for the rest we will forever differ , what I hope happens now is that scottish clubs keep on earning coeficient points so we can start talking about the football and not what the fans get up to even if we are polar opposites on what actually happens

sorry just a small addition , the story regarding Rangers in Barcelona was actually written and even better spoken about by the well respected and impartial journalist Graham Hunter on Talksport last week and even better it was backed up by none other than gabriel marcotti , now unless these two are also readers of "rabid websites" thenI think you will find you are well of the mark

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: nightfire Date: 11-10-2007, 21:29 Edited by: nightfire at: 11-10-2007, 21:30	rbr, Thank you for your comments - for what it's worth I was on the flight and know what the final outcome was (different to what was reported initially) and that was why I was annoyed - my apologies I did not hear the Talksport interviews I too would like to see Scottish teams continue to gather co-efficient points to keep us up the rankings. Mind you we can't afford to go too high

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: nikola_belgrade Date: 11-10-2007, 21:42	"Milan's Dida banned, Celtic fined" I must admit that i expected at least one match ban for Celtic...

Author: rbr
Date: 11-10-2007, 22:47

after spending the last few hours contemplating having a cyber arguement with our closest rival fans ,i believe that most of the problems in scottish football (with regards to the constant tit for tat and my dads bigger than your dad , your fans are worse than our fans)are when considered alongside the rest of europe pretty minor yet some how manage to get blown out of all proportion and it makes us easy prey for uefa .

At the recent barca v real game (3-3) at the nou camp I witnessed a barca fan throwing missiles at Guti who was taking corners , nothing special in that except tghe person handing him the crushed cans was a policeman , resplendent with gun et all, we see fans all across europe rioting and nothing gets done , roma and man utd fans especially .

the booing of coloured players by the predominantly eastern block countries is especially nasty , and being coloured myself it is somethimng that living in scotland I have very rarely come across, to end this rant i dont really know what the answer is unless the sfa grow a set of balls I dont see anything change

Author: JC71
Date: 12-10-2007, 11:28

Although Dida reaction was something shameful,
he was quietly in is place,
when a fan come and mock with him in the pitch.

What where the effects of that action towards Dida and Milan,
if that happened earlier.

Most of the Southern countries stadiums,
have fences, nets, pits, etc. to avoid that situations.
In the UK you get a more real feeling with that closeness to the game,
but if not all comply with the rules something must be done.

It's not normal (forget Dida's reaction) to see a opponent fan celebrating in the pitch and tap you in the face when you suffer a goal
and try to react to that bad result.

I do know it was one stupid action from one person,
but it can't happen.

Author: bbi
Date: 13-10-2007, 15:31

can't belive that celtic got only a �17,847 fine. if this would have happend in a country from the east that team would have had it ground suspended for at least 2 matches. it doesn't matter what Dida did. he wouldn't have had the oportunity to simulate if that fan wounld have come on the field. this fine is just an invitation to do repeat this kind of actions because the club won't have anything to suffer. for a football club 17000 euros it's just like a peny.

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: exile Date: 13-10-2007, 23:24	Repeat what kind of actions? Go onto the field AFTER WINNING A GAME and tap a player on the shoulder? OK he shouldn't have done it, but there was no evil intent, and UEFA recognised this, hence there was only a fine rather than a ban.

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: JC71 Date: 14-10-2007, 18:00	Was the game over? Game ends when the referee says so. Ok, you fail to see what are the implications of a fan in the pitch making provocations to the opposite team, even if they aren't violent. To me Milan was the team most penalized by this incident, as the fine for Celtic is pathetic.

Author: giulio
Date: 15-10-2007, 20:51

I'm a Milan fan

About Dida: I think we despise him more than anyone else, both for what he did that evening and for how he usually plays. If Berlusconi hadn't become so tight in spending money we'd have Buffon right now (he was more than willing to come...).

About Celtic not been penalized: we're happy about that, because otherwise it would have been an advantage for the others teams in the group. However, it's a very dangerous precedent, now teams know they can try sending a fan heckling a player and see if he reacts and be penalized for that, while the team risks nothing.

Author: pollymac
Date: 15-10-2007, 23:42

The Chilean goalkeeper feigned an injury after an incident (a flare landed about a yard or two from him) during a WC Qualifier v Brazil in 89 - in comparison to what happened for trying to influence the outcome of the game, Dida was let off lightly.

...The keeper was given a lifetime ban and Chile were subsequently banned from competitive international football for 5 years.

As for Celtic, the rest of the campaign should've been played behind closed doors. In the UK, we're no longer allowed to erect perimeter fences at any sports venues with capacities exceeding 10,000 and as such we've known for a long time that additional security measures (stewards and police) are required. If the club doen't, or can't, provide this, then the only option, sadly, is to close the ground.

Author: rod_c
Date: 17-10-2007, 16:10

Pollymac: >>>As for Celtic, the rest of the campaign should've been played behind closed doors. In the UK, we're no longer allowed to erect perimeter fences at any sports venues with capacities exceeding 10,000 and as such we've known for a long time that additional security measures (stewards and police) are required. If the club doen't, or can't, provide this, then the only option, sadly, is to close the ground.{{{{

Sorry, but that is tosh. There was a Spanish pitch invader during the CL final in Glasgow a couple of years back - should Scotland have a couple of games behind closed doors (or maybe even Queens Park as it's their ground)? Or should the next CL final have been behind closed doors as UEFA were in charge of the final?

Games behind closed doors are a just punishment for hooliganism and violence - not for over-exuberance & as such the fine was fair.

Unless you go for fences (which UEFA are against) it is a sad fact that fans can get on the pitch. If they do get on but do not commit an assault/provocate the opposition fans, then fines and the anger of their fellow fans are sufficient.

Author: rbr
Date: 17-10-2007, 17:19

there seems to have been a touch of , how can I put this , mixed allegances in this matter , it has just been reported from the republic of Ireland that the irish uefa delegate Mr Delany has just approached senior celtic shareholder Dermott Desmond for financial backing to help fund the FAI . Now this may just be a coincidence , but at the same time it has been rerported widely in Scotland that the very same uefa delegate campaigned vigoursly to have a possible two match behind closed doors ban overturned as this was the favoured punishment being considered by the disciplinary committee , I think next weeks appeal by Ac Milan will be a very interesting time , especially as the Italian delegate pulled himself out of the original investigating committee due to possible allegiance issues . We wait with baited breath !!!!

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: lsa Date: 18-10-2007, 00:20	You seem to be implying that the FAI may be in some way corrupt - do you have a link to the news article that confirms your story

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: exile Date: 18-10-2007, 09:47	It's total nonsense. The UEFA committee can make up their own minds without the help of the Irish delegate. The decision was a little lenient - but if it happens again Celtic will be in real trouble and deservedly so. Again I say - the lack of violent intent was probably the deciding factor.

Re: Celtic and Milan
Author: rbr Date: 18-10-2007, 19:51	http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/display.var.1762798.0.irish_beak_took_heat_ off_Celtcirish_beak_took_heat_off_Celtc.php, not the greatest at this kind of thing , but the story appeared here amongst other news outlets

Author: lsa
Date: 18-10-2007, 20:46
Edited by: lsa
at: 18-10-2007, 20:47

I found the story from your link but it doesn't seem to cover what you mentioned in your earlier post.

1. I don't see any link about seeking money from Dermot Desmond

2. It also states that Delaney is a Manchester United fan not a Celtic fan.

3. In addition, it also states that 2 members of a 9 man committee were in favour of a ban. That implies that 7 members were not ( 1 of which would be Delaney) so I don't know what persuading Delaney would need to have done.