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Author: abzpablo
Date: 25-04-2007, 18:39
Edited by: abzpablo
at: 25-04-2007, 18:39

Last night Dunfermline beat Hibernian in a replay to reach the Scottish Cup final.

Dunfermline are currently bottom of the league and favourites to be relegated.

However, since their cup final opponents Celtic are in the UCL, Dunfermline will be guaranteed UEFA Cup football, even if (as expected) they lose the final.

Surely this is wrong? Why don't UEFA insist teams actually win their cup finals and if not, give the place to the next best placed league team.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: badgerboy Date: 25-04-2007, 19:03	A change is coming - at least possibly. But this is UEFA we're talking about - so I think we have to wait for 2009-10 for any change to be implemented.

Author: drvasko98
Date: 25-04-2007, 19:44

Why you are so hard against little teams. National cups is their single chance to reach a european football once for 10 years period. And Pars won against Rangers, Hearts and Hibs this year, if am not wrong. They fully deserved this success. There is a 6 sure leagues spots in Italy and Spain, 5 in England, Germany, Portugal(for now), Netherlands, 4 in France (without Intertoto spots) And you are against a single spot giving some chances for little clubs. And dont you forget that national cups format is nearest by european cups than champioship format. And team, strong in elimination tournaments deserved to play in eurocups. What did Hearts in Europe. Nothing, absolutely nothing with their "star" selection! It doesnt matter for Scots country ranking if play Hearts or Pars. Only my opinion of course

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: bert.kassies Date: 25-04-2007, 19:46	It's a remnant of the Cup Winners' Cup, which was incorporated in the UEFA Cup new style.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: abzpablo Date: 25-04-2007, 20:27	Yes, but the CWC lost its appeal when they expanded the UCL. The majority of cup winners then qualified for the CL, leaving various waifs and strays in the CWC in the late 1990s.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: bjkman1903 Date: 25-04-2007, 23:07	There is a similar case in Turkey, Kayseri Erciyes reached the final today and will probably be in Uefa cup next season..But I believe that they deserved it, they eliminated Gala and Trabzon after all

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: abzpablo Date: 25-04-2007, 23:21	Yes, Dunfermline eliminated Rangers, Hearts and Hibs........but last season a village team, Gretna, also qualified this way without beating any top league sides to get to the cup final (where they lost to Hearts).

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA C
Author: Overgame Date: 26-04-2007, 00:35	"Surely this is wrong?" The final is not played yet, and you're whining about the team ? And what if they win the cup, UEFA shouldn't accept teams from lower division, just because it could hurt the coefficient ?

Author: neill
Date: 26-04-2007, 10:16
Edited by: neill
at: 26-04-2007, 10:17

I am not a fan of this rule, however, everyone knows it at the start of the season and I'll bet that if Hearts or Hibs had qualified through this method there would not be so much wringing of hands in Scotland. However, the Edinburgh teams failed to defeat Dunfermline Athletic when it mattered. Good luck to the Pars in the final - although I'm biased as my wife is a Pars supporter!

I would take issue with the point that Hearts have performed poorly in Europe though. They have over 20 co-efficient points, have only lost ties when they were unseeded and have defeated Braga, Bordeaux and Basle in the last 3 years. There is also a chance that Hearts could be seeded in the UEFA Cup 1st round. Statistically, Hearts have performed much better than any other Scottish side outside Rangers and Celtic, you only have to think of Dunfermline Athletic, Dundee United and Gretna in the last three seasons who have lost in qualifying despite being seeded.

Author: azfanforever
Date: 26-04-2007, 10:26

i think i remember a case from a few years ago with a german team, i think allemania aachen, who also made it to uefa, but were from bundesliga 2.
just checked it, 2004, made final against werder, and lost it, but werder became champions, so aachen played uefa cup (lost against AZ in third round). so i don't think it's fair to pick on a team like dunfirmline, they fairly made it to the final, so it's fair to give them a chance.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: Kaiser Date: 26-04-2007, 10:56	Or Terek Grozny It had agood European campaign - defeated Wisla Krakow but at last they lost to Basel...

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: Floridian Date: 26-04-2007, 11:44	Kaiser, In UC 2004-05 in QR2 Terek has beaten Lech Poznan, not Wisla Krakow (Wisla was playing in CL that year and lost in CLQR3 to Real Madrid and in UC R1 to Dinamo Tbilisi).

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: Kaiser Date: 26-04-2007, 11:47	cause of my memory like a sieve...

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: abzpablo Date: 26-04-2007, 11:48	I just feel the rules should be amended so that these clubs actually have to WIN the cup. Dunfermline are around 30 points below 4th place - surely only WINNING this trophy justifies their inclusion instead of Hearts (or Aberdeen)? It's a silly rule.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 26-04-2007, 11:55

I don't have anything against "small" teams. I generally like them much more than "big" ones.

But for me - when it comes to European qualification - good performance over 38 or 34 etc. games in the league is far more deserving of a European place than getting to a Cup Final & losing - whoever you beat along the way.

Surely when a smaller club gets to the Cup Final the event itself is their great reward for earlier victories - a European place is just an accidental bonus. The Cup Final itself is supposed to be a big event - not just a means to getting into Europe. If they win then of course they should play European football - whether at the bottom of their first division or somewhere in the fourth.

Author: Geordiepar
Date: 26-04-2007, 12:11

I personally don't agree at all. For me having 3 out of 4 places determined by league placings and one by the cup is a fair split. The UEFA cup is a cup competition, and this year Dunfermline have made it to the cup final despite a very difficult draw. The league shows the most consistent teams over the course of the season, but a cup is a different type of competition and for me there should always be a UEFA cup place for a cup team. In Scotland, if the cup winner has already qualified for Champions League, that leaves you with the option of either the Scottish Cup runners-up qualifying as is the current position or giving the place to the League cup winners. Six and 2 threes really.

One of the problems in Scotland is the inconsistency of teams outwith the Old Firm. If a team performs well and qualifies for Europe, the players from that team tend to get poached by bigger clubs and the following year (when they are in Europe), they are a shadow of the team that got them there.

There is very little difference in how a team outwith the Old Firm is going to perform in Europe between the likes of Aberdeen and the likes of Dunfermline/Gretna. Both tend to get beat very early so there is no real difference.

If the bigger clubs in Scotland are so desparate for a European slot then why didn't the likes of Aberdeen, Hibs or Hearts apply for the Intertoto cup. 2 of those three teams won't be in Europe, and quite frankly rather than moan about Dunfermline qualifying they should be having a good hard look at themselves.

Author: abzpablo
Date: 26-04-2007, 12:16

This is nothing against Dunfermline and I hope you win the cup Geordiepar.

I have argued against this rule of years now and cannot believe it hasn't been changed.

Aberdeen (vs Bohemians), Dundee United (vs MyPa), Dunfermline (vs Harfarfjordur) and Gretna (vs Derry City) have all embarrassed Scotland in qualifying rounds when getting into the UEFA Cup this way.

Dunfermline have already had two Hampden days out and will have a final to savour - is it really appropriate to reward them with a precious Euro spot at this stage without them having to go and do the business in the final?

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: Kaiser Date: 26-04-2007, 12:16	The way to make Scottish championship more interesting is to increase teams and rotation. I think 16 teams is good. The reason is under your nose: clubs straight and potential 'basementers' win cups (or lose the final). How do you find it?

Author: neill
Date: 26-04-2007, 12:28

A couple of minor points -

abzpablo, Dunfermline Athletic also finished 4th in the league in the season they qualified for the UEFA Cup so whatever you think of the rule they deserved to qualify anyway.

Geordiepar, Hearts declared an interest in the Intertoto Cup this year but pulled out at the last moment, I suspect, because they were the only team interested once ICT pulled out and therefore the SFA would've incurred a �125000 fine had Hearts ended up finishing 3rd and qualifying for the UEFA Cup. Point taken though, I have no idea why no other SPL teams are interested in the Intertoto, shortsighted boardrooms I would guess.

Author: Geordiepar
Date: 26-04-2007, 12:29

The argument that Aberdeen, Gretna and Dunfermline have all embarrased themselves by qualifying this way is actually completely flawed.

In 2004 Dunfermline were also the 4th placed team in the SPL and would have qualified if the rules were changed as you wish. Of course had they qualified as 4th in then league and not as cup runners up then we would have no doubt played much better ;o)

Scottish teams outwith the Old Firm and Hearts have been embarassing themselves in Europe for years, it's not just the cup runners up who have been doing it.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA C
Author: blue_shark Date: 26-04-2007, 12:44	neill Intertoto campaign begins at the end of june, that means players have a two week holiday. Plus, for scottish clubs, they don't know for sure if they will make it to the 3rd round, not to mention UEFA qualifying round. These matches are not so motivating for players, managers and even owners. The only money you win out of the Intertoto Cup are the TV rights.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: neill Date: 26-04-2007, 13:04	blue-shark, the Intertoto campaign for Scottish clubs would've started on 7 July, the league season ends on 19/20 May, that's a six week break. No excuses, I bet all the SPL clubs will be playing pre-season friendlies before 7 July. I also reckon that most of the SPL clubs would also get into the 3rd round of the Intertoto and 3 or 4 would also have a good shot at winning the 3rd round tie too.

Author: Geordiepar
Date: 26-04-2007, 13:27

The problem with a team not knwoing if it will qualify for UEFA and pulling out of Intertoto because SFA would get fined is ridiculous. The SFA need to speak to UEFA about this.

Two things could be done to encourage Scottish clubs to take part:

The SFA could give the team entering a financial payment. If a club enters but is withdrawn as they qualify for UEFA cup and incur a fine then rather than pay the club the incentive, they pay UEFA. Having said that Scotland can't be the only nation that has this problem. Hearts themselves could have said the the SFA they would pay the fine if they didn't qualify for UEFA cup as there is a good chance they would have got through into the UEFA cup via the Intertoto. They should be able to qualify from the 2nd round proper and if they get into the 1st round are not too far from being seeded.
If they did get into the first round and were unseeded, if they picked up a few coefficient points then even if they got knocked out that could be the difference in future years between being seeded in the 1st round and a great chance for group stage and being unseeded.

The other thing the SFA/SPL could do is bring the season forward a week or two, so the season starts a few weeks earlier. This would also help all of the clubs in Europe, who often play in Europe having played only 1 competitive league match. If they had 2 or 3 matches under their belt this could make all the difference.

Then again, the people running Scottish football are purely driven by greed, and how much money they can each get, rather than the good of Scottish football. One of the reasons why anything that allows some success for a small club needs to be changed, so the bigger clubs get it all.

Author: blue_shark
Date: 26-04-2007, 13:56

the scottish league already starts too early. moving it forward isn't a solution. the way i see it, it's not SFA or SPL to blame, nre hearts or over clubs for not wanting to participate at the intertoto. it's just that there aren't good teams too rise off to the challenge of celtic and rangers and, what's more important, they can't do it for more than a few years. that's why their players are not suited to play in european competitions because they are unexperienced. intertoto is usually a chance given to clubs under construction to accumulate experience. but in scotland's case why would a mid table club want to go to intertoto when they have no guarantee that they will qualify for uefa cup next season?

Author: Geordiepar
Date: 26-04-2007, 14:05

Because they MIGHT actually qualify.

As for clubs not rising to the challenge, probably because Rangers and Celtic have individuals earning more than the enture wage budget at other clubs in the league. They also buy any half decent player from their rivals, for peanuts, to ensure that no other club can compete with them.

Unfortunately even if clubs try and hold onto their best players, those players become unhappy as the Old Firm can offer them much bigger wages, and player power almost always wins.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: neill Date: 26-04-2007, 14:08	blue-shark, you appear to have contradicted yourself in your own post. I would suggest that a mid-table SPL team should apply for the Intertoto to get the European experience you say they lack! They have nothing to lose and everything to gain if they do well enough to qualify for the UEFA Cup.

Author: moro
Date: 26-04-2007, 14:21

In 1982 or 1984 my dream-team as a child, FC Baia Mare (north of Romania) got Real Madrid as losers of cup against champion. It was a great 0-0 at home (Santillana and Stielike played for Madrid), and we scored the first goal in Bernabeu - chills were all over Spain, finally we lost 2-5. But I can asure you, people are still talking about. It was the greatest game for this part of Romania ever played.
This should not be taken from little heroic chancy teams.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA C
Author: blue_shark Date: 26-04-2007, 14:23	neill i am just saying that the main idea is to accumulate experience for a future european qualification. playing against teams from montenegro or switzerland will not build up your players for matches against celtic or rangers. Geordiepar i guess the solution is for someone to invest big money in another club. having two teams fighting for two CL spots is not very entertaining.

Author: neill
Date: 26-04-2007, 15:41

blue-shark, I'm not sure I understand your point, you are correct that playing in the Intertoto will not help a team challenge the Old Firm domestically but this is an unrealistic ambition for anyone outside perhaps Aberdeen, Heart of Midlothian and Hibernian. However, playing in the Intertoto could result in qualification for the UEFA Cup and this cannot be a bad thing and will at least result in EUROPEAN experience.

In any case, there has been heavy investment in Hearts which allowed them to split Rangers and Celtic last season and play in the Champions League qualifiers. They might well have achieved the same thing again this season but for the self-destructive tendencies of said investor.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: abzpablo Date: 26-04-2007, 16:03	moro - I recall Baia Mare's tie against Real Madrid That was the 82-83 CWC - my favourite ever tournament !

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: moro Date: 26-04-2007, 16:16	I was there with my father, playing cards and backgammon from 10 in the morning, until the game started, sun, smiling people. Great time!

Author: abzpablo
Date: 22-05-2007, 16:09

Looks like Dunfermline's own players don't feel they deserve a UEFA Cup slot should they lose at the weekend !

Dunfermline told they don�t deserve the European prize

The man whose goal sent Dunfermline Athletic into Europe next season admitted yesterday that he believes that his team do not deserve to be rewarded with a place in the Uefa Cup if they lose the Tennent�s Scottish Cup final against Celtic at Hampden Park on Saturday.

Jim McIntyre feels that the Fife club, who will compete on the same stage as Bayern Munich and Tottenham Hotspur next term despite being relegated from the top-flight, would be less worthy of representing Scotland in the competition as cup runners-up than Heart of Midlothian, who have missed out on the Europe altogether by finishing fourth in the Bank of Scotland Premierleague.

The 34-year-old striker�s penalty winner in the semi-final replay last month against Hibernian secured Uefa Cup football as well as creating a repeat of the 2004 final. Celtic�s title success means that they will be playing in the Champions League, ensuring that Dunfermline will be given the Uefa Cup place allocated to the national cup competition, even if they do not win the trophy.

That was what happened three years ago, when Celtic were also crowned champions and then sealed the Double by defeating Dunfermline 3-1 in the Scottish Cup final. As runners-up, Dunfermline benefitted from Celtic�s monopoly by going into the Uefa Cup but at least they finished fourth in the Premierleague in that campaign, so there was a natural justice about their European spin-off. However, after finishing bottom of the table this season, the guarantee of a Uefa Cup place has angered other sides.

Related Links
McIntyre pays tribute to absent teammates
�It�s not us who makes the rules up,� McIntyre said yesterday. �If it�s decided that you get the European place if the other finalist has already qualified, then the club will gladly take it. Personally, I think that if you win the cup then great, you deserve to be in Europe, but otherwise I would give it to the fourth placed team. That�s an achievement over a season and they probably deserve it.

�However, as I said, it�s not Dunfermline who make the rules. It�s been happening for years and we�ll gladly look forward to it. I don�t think we have to justify because the rules are set in place beforehand.� McIntyre believes his side can win at Hampden, however. �We have shown that we are a formidable side. If we win the cup, we�ve done it the hardest way possible, beating Rangers and knocking out Hearts, the holders and then beating Hibernian,� he said.

The top two sides in the Premierleague � Celtic and Rangers � both qualify for the Champions League but only one team is rewarded for its season�s work over 38 league game, the side that finishes third. Aberdeen secured third place last Sunday, edging out fourth-placed Hearts. Scotland is allocated just two places in the Uefa Cup and the Scottish Football Association maintain that the other place goes to the winners of the Scottish Cup.

Darren Young, the midfield player, gave Dunfermline�s plans a fresh injection of optimism yesterday when he announced that the knee injury that he sustained last Saturday in the defeat against Falkirk in their final Premierleague fixture, will not keep him out of the Scottish Cup final.

�My knee had swollen up by Sunday morning and I did fear that I was going to miss out as I did last season when we played Celtic in the CIS Insurance Cup final and I broke a bone in my foot,� he said. �However, the swelling has gone down now and I will be at Hampden.�

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article1821587.ece

Author: Geordiepar
Date: 22-05-2007, 19:27

We'll deserve it when we beat Celtic at the weekend.

Seriously, there are a lot of people who dislike the rule and I believe it is definately being changed as part of the UEFA review of the UEFA cup and Champions League formats for 2009-2012.

However thats the rule at the moment so Hearts of Lithuania can maon all they like. If Europe was such a big thing then the Scottish teams would have entered the Intertoto cup - they didn't so obviosuly don't value it that much.

All I know is that I'll be invading Europe this year and we'll be able to play our home tie at home this time after getting shafted by UEFA in 2004 due to the artificial pitch we had installed AS PART OF A UEFA TRIAL.

Author: cska
Date: 23-05-2007, 09:27

In my personal view, cup final losers have the right to play in Europe as they had it when CWC existed. League top teams should not complain, because every country in Europe has 0,1,2 or 3 UC spots for the league teams and 1 for a cup team. If, for example, UEFA revive CWC and thus disallows any league teams from a European cup spot, will those teams be pleased, then?
I also remember some years ago when Union Berlin lost the cup final to Schalke (who entered CL). Union was a 3rd tier team. They even eliminated Haka Valkeakoski (Finland), but after that lost to Litex from Bulgaria (which is not "embarassing", I think).
As the FA cup is the only way for non-top league teams to compete for a decent trophey and to get a European spot, I think that there is no reason to ban them from that.
League competitors for UC spots should remember that before the season starts they know that there is 1 spot for the cup winner or final loser. So, if they want to fight for a UC spot, they should play well in the cup.
And also, UC and CL are tournaments with 6 matches in CL GS or UC R1+GS and then 6 matches more to reach to CL final (8 for UC final). I believe that even 6 matches in Europe will be a success for any Scottish team except Celtic and Rangers. So, there is no problem that Dunfermline were very good in the few cup matches, but finished last in the league. If Hearts or Hibs really wanted a UC spot, they should have beaten Dunfermline in the cup matches.
And football is not about coefficients. It's about entertainment. If Pars qualified for UC, then good luck to them.

Author: neill
Date: 23-05-2007, 10:23

Geordiepar, bit sick of the digs at Heart of Midlothian on this forum, particularly as when the club have contributed well to the Scottish co-efficient in recent years. Hearts DID express an interest in the Intertoto but because noone else in Scotland did they had to pull out to avoid a fine from UEFA if they had finished 3rd and were unable to fulfil their place. The blame lies with the other SPL clubs for not expressing an interest and Inverness CT who pulled out so Elton John could play at their ground. The same happened to Hearts in 2004/05.

Also, I have not met a Hearts fan yet who grudges the Pars their place in the UEFA Cup, we simply didn't deserve to qualify. My wife is a Pars fan of long standing and I live in the town. Good luck on Saturday!

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA C
Author: bert.kassies Date: 23-05-2007, 12:46	neill, are you sure that is correct? To my knowledge UEFA will never fine a club for not taking part in Intertoto. UEFA offcially doesn't even know before June 4 which clubs take part. It is the Scottish FA that will be given a fine if the association first subscribe for Intertoto, and in the end no club wants to take part.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: neill Date: 23-05-2007, 13:21 Edited by: neill at: 23-05-2007, 13:21	Bert, although no club would be fined directly am I right in thinking that the Scottish FA would be fined? It is interesting what you say though about the June 4 deadline. Does this mean that in theory Scotland could have put a representative forward and even if Hearts didn't finish 3rd (as has happened) Hearts could still have played in the Intertoto if they wanted to?

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA C
Author: bert.kassies Date: 23-05-2007, 14:47	@neill: Yes, in that case the Scottish FA would have been fined. The rules say that the Intertoto team should end at maximum 4 places behind the last UC spot in the domestic league. So, for Scotland, league positions 4 to 7 should be OK. But UEFA is very generous with exceptions to this rule. So, I think, any SPL team or position would be good enough for UEFA.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: neill Date: 23-05-2007, 15:10	Bert, thank you. The problem for Scotland remains the same though. If only one team applies AND still has a chance of qualifying automatically the Scottish FA has little choice but to put nobody forward. Hearts may be itching to play in the Intertoto Cup now (I don't know this for a fact) but it is too late.

Author: Geordiepar
Date: 23-05-2007, 18:58
Edited by: Geordiepar
at: 23-05-2007, 19:06

At the end of the day that should not be a problem for the member clubs, but for the SFA themselves.

Even if 1 club says they want a place they should be put forward, and if they then qualify for the UEFA cup the SFA will either need to try and persuade another Scottish side to enter or pay the fine.

Neill, with regards to the moans about Hearts, I do apologise. I don't like how Romanov has run the club since he took over and turned the club into FC Kaunas on loan r us. They had such potential to be a real force against the Old Firm but have fallen apart. Still no need for the sly jibes though. :o)

Thanks for your good luck wishes for Saturday. Hopefully your wife will be very happy on Saturday night.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA C
Author: blue_shark Date: 23-05-2007, 19:45	@geordiepar the scottish FA, as you put the problem had 2 possibilities: either sending no team to IT or looking at a possible fine. they took the easy way out. on the other hand i don't remember hearts having anything against the decision at the time and that they don't regret it. you are not the first fans to disagree with how a club is handled.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA C
Author: bert.kassies Date: 23-05-2007, 20:03	neill, I don't know exactly but the fine is not that high. Something like 100 k�. For the small chance on that fine you buy time. It's a different thing to ask clubs for a decision in February than at the end of May. I tend to see it as an investment in improving football in your country.

Author: abzpablo
Date: 24-05-2007, 17:47

CSKA - I enjoyed your post and the arguments, but do not totally agree.

(i) You state this is a legacy CWC rule and the UC is now basically a merger between the old CWC and UEFA Cups.

Problem here is in good old times, runners-up only qualified if they lost to the league WINNERS.

Now depending on the country, you can have cup winners in 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th going into CL.

Look at Gretna from Scotland last season........they did not play one SPL side until the final and then lost to second-placed league side Hearts.
They then embarrassed Scotland in Europe against an Irish club, Derry.

(ii) Saturday's final would be so much more exciting if Dunfermline had to win it to qualify for the UC.

If you say that Hearts and Hibs should have played better in the cup, then the counter-argument is surely Dunfermline should have to WIN the cup.........same goes for all the small clubs throughout Europe.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: Kaiser Date: 25-05-2007, 15:26	We have the same situation in Turkey. Erciyesspor which gonna be relegated lost to Besiktas and received the UC spot.

Author: billym
Date: 25-05-2007, 19:32
Edited by: billym
at: 25-05-2007, 19:35

the losing finalist should not be given a uefa spot just cause the other team ins in the C.L regardless if they are in 2nd divisions

if they win it only..then they should get it.. makes the domestic championship more exciting
after all.. if the loser in the cup meets an opponent that is in the uefa cup then the spot goes to a division team.. same rules should apply if the opponent is the C.L
this is so ridiculous..
trust me .. scotland has a better chance in the uefa with the 4th place team then dunfermline

then people say... well they got to the final so they should get a uefa spot...

well liverpool lost in the final of the C.L do u see them in the groups no QR3

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: Mitzah Date: 27-05-2007, 18:30	Well...if I remember correctly...a few years ago...Bochum qualified for UEFA Cup and they were relegated...and they managed to get past the group stage...who knows ?

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: Kaiser Date: 27-05-2007, 18:36	Maybe their opponent was relegated for some violations, I think.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA C
Author: salina Date: 27-05-2007, 18:45 Edited by: salina at: 27-05-2007, 18:58	It wasn?t Bochum, it was Alemannia Aachen, who played in the second league for some years at that time, but had the luck to be seeded in the first UC-round -against a team from Iceland, which had won against Dunfermline in the qualification...

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: Mitzah Date: 27-05-2007, 18:48	Right ...my bad... Well...maybe Dunfermline will get lucky

Author: azfanforever
Date: 27-05-2007, 18:56

allemania reached the 3rd round then, so i don't see the problem of low placed teams in uefa cup.
why should dunfermline earn the same recognition as other teams. they made it to the final in a fair way, sure, they had i nice draw, but football isn't just about quality, luck plays a part in the results.
why don't you just give them a change.
when you're judging like you all do, why don't you just get rid of the cup? It's the only change for small teams to get to europe, or just get to play against teams from the first league.

Author: MalcolmW
Date: 27-05-2007, 22:01

Dunfermline beat Rangers, Hearts and Hibs to reach the SFA Cup Final, where they lost to Celtic (only goal in 85th minute). If they had won I think they would have been the first team ever to beat the top 2 Glasgow and Edinburgh teams in the cup, but it did not happen.
One star in their cup run, and improving league form which almost escaped relegation was 19 year-old Adam Hamill, on loan from Liverpool from January to end of season. So he will not be available for UEFA Cup...
I don't know whether Benitez intends to include him in the first team squad (he was a key man in the FA Youth Cup victory in 2006) or loan him out again. It would be interesting to see him with Blackpool or Preston, for instance.

Re: The bottom team in Scotland is in 07-08 UEFA Cup
Author: neill Date: 29-05-2007, 12:47	I note that Hearts friendly match with Barcelona has been scheduled for 28th July - the date of the Intertoto Cup 3rd round 2nd leg. I think I may have just discovered Hearts real motivation for pulling out of the Intertoto Cup!