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Italy: The final verdict.
Author: Vesuvio Date: 27-10-2006, 22:44	After the arbitration are arrived the defenitive penalties for the major teams involved in the Italian football scandal. Juventus and Lazio have a reduction of 8 points, Fiorentina 4 points, no reduction of penalty for Milan. So the definitive penalties are: 9 points for Juventus, 15 points for Fiorentina, Milan 8 points, Lazio 3 points.

Author: porto-1978
Date: 27-10-2006, 22:53

This outcome is a scandal itself!!!!!
And the title? Was credited to Inter, remained in Juve or was robbed by Milan?

Vesuvio and other people can tell me really why the diferences between punishments? Or what do they reflect? There are more and less currupts?! Some currupts are depromoted while another (less currupt?!?) remain in first league AND champions league with litlle demage? This make sense for who?

In my away vision i just can consider that Berlusconi is very powerfull indeed.

Author: Vesuvio
Date: 27-10-2006, 23:10
Edited by: Vesuvio
at: 28-10-2006, 00:15

really seems that Milan lost power indeed, as are the only team that have no reduction.

Anyway I remind you that these teams had already a former punishment and this sentence regard only the size of handicap in this season.

Juventus were relegated in serie B and lost two titles and the patecipation to group stage of CL

Fiorentina lost partecipation both CL and Uefa Cup

Lazio lost their spot in Uefa Cup

Milan lost the chance to win the title removed to Juventus and the Group stage of CL. Anyway they partecipated to QR and it was unfair, so was discussed in this forum. Probably for this reason judges didn't reduct the penalty of Milan.

Re: Italy: The final verdict.
Author: Vesuvio Date: 27-10-2006, 23:13	This sentence will have surely many criticism, and someone will consider it hard or soft. At this point I'm happy that is arrived the end of this bad story and finally we have a table that won't change anymore.

Re: Italy: The final verdict.
Author: Kramelito Date: 27-10-2006, 23:46	Niiiiice! (/sarcasms) ... So why to not try to fix the games (the whole season) again, if at the end the punishment is soooo sweet? I respect Italy very much but this make me sick... A great world champion, no doubt...

Author: porto-1978
Date: 28-10-2006, 00:14

"end of this bad story"?! that seems the same old story we listen from people that want to manipulate the facts... (no personal ofense) but this can?t be over if nothing really happens to the clubs! and the presidents and administration of the currupt clubs? are the same?! End of story is what you say... the story keeps going in the old same way.

Besides Vesuvio said, guess by mistake, "Milan didn't reduct the penalty of Milan." Funny idea of club punishing itself, a nice image for Milan in this process. A nice image of Berlusconi that in position to go to the courts change laws in order to not go to courts using the argument of being in government. When presidents judge themselves or use their power to protect their person and clubs seems to have power to be involved in a scandal and still control the effects of it, all seems lost.

I tell why in my opinion Milan had no reduction: don?t need it as the first judicial indications were good enough and they have what they want (CL and just -8pts in league). They can rest by now so that other clubs lobbies shout louder by the last days...

Vesuvio, hope you suport Napoli. First impression (aparently defending Milan) was not the best and that could give you some points! Napoli is my favourite in Italy. The city can by what it is and have reputation but in terms of football the bigger mafia seems to be centered in northern places... And this is not the end of the story, we all know it...

Author: Vesuvio
Date: 28-10-2006, 00:27
Edited by: Vesuvio
at: 28-10-2006, 00:32

@Porto-1978

It was a type mistake. I meant Judges. Maybe you didn't read my summer posts. I was very critical against sentence of Milan and I said that sentence was more scandalous than the scandal itself.

In my opinion I was agree with the first sentence that took Juventus in B with -30, Lazio and Fiorentina in B with handicap (-7 and -12), Milan without european cup and -15 handicap in this season.

The final sentence is surely softer but isn't correct to say that teams weren't punished (beside Milan).

Juventus went for the first time in their history in serie B and lost two titles, Lazio and Fiorentina lost money to skip European Cups. Only Milan had a bighelp by the judges of the second sentence.

I think that this last sentence is good since there was rumours of an higher reduction of penalty and I'm afraid of this.

I want add that there isn't evidence of fixed matches apart Lecce-Parma with he referee De Santis that took the teams toward a draw and cautioned three players of Parma (that were suspended for the 4th added yellow card) and sent off the key-player Morfeo. All this because Parma had high probability to meet Fiorentina in barrage (That didn't happen since Bologna missed the win against Sampdoria so Fiorentina was safe without play-offs)

Re: Italy: The final verdict.
Author: Vesuvio Date: 28-10-2006, 00:32	regarding Berlusconi I am totally agree. He becomed rich due to corruption and he ruled Italy like were his property and took the Parlament to save his ass making laws "ad personam" that solved all their troubles with justice. I hate Berlusconi and conseguently Milan. So surey you misundertood my words. Cheers, Vesuvio P.S: I support Napoli

Re: Italy: The final verdict.
Author: Kramelito Date: 28-10-2006, 00:41	I support everyone who hates Berlusconi

Author: Overgame
Date: 28-10-2006, 03:36

"Niiiiice! (/sarcasms) ... So why to not try to fix the games (the whole season) again, if at the end the punishment is soooo sweet?"

If the loss of 2 titles, relegation and starting with -9 points is a sweet punishement, you need to visit a doctor.

And could you explain me (in details) the case ? I want to know who bought matches, which matches, when and how. After your answer (if an answer comes, which i highly doubt. When you know a little about the case, you know why the sentence is not sodft), i'll change my answer.
But the oponion of people who doesn't know a shit about the scandal=zerooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 28-10-2006, 14:18

It will be interesting to see if the appeal verdict for a club like Reggina is so favourable. Somehow I doubt it...

I also think that saying clubs have "already been punished" is a bit much. Juve were stripped of two titles. Does that really mean anything - other than as a paper exercise? Did they have to give back all the money they earned from TV rights etc whilst winning those titles OR the money they earned for participating in last year's Champions League by any chance?

And the season after next I dare say UEFA will welcome them back to European football like some kind of lost son. "The "old lady" of Italian football is back after "suffering" relegation for the first time in their history - ah bless, haven't we missed "her"". At least sick bag manufacturers ought to be in for a bonanza time of it as football fans everywhere are forced to restock.

Author: Kramelito
Date: 28-10-2006, 19:34

Yes, I maintain it’s a sweet punishment, and I don’t need a doctor. With only -9 points in Seria B, Juventus can already prentend to claim promotion at the end of the season. It’s too early to my eyes coz I first expected (like many fans) their relegation in Seria C. What they did is serious, and please don’t say I know nothing about that story coz I’ve closely followed it, among it reading day after day La Gazzetta dello Sport and other italian newspapers, watched debates in about it on Italian TV (I speak italian), etc... . Everybody knows the full details coz we had many topics on this forum too. And yes, the final verdict is a joke, it show no respect for the italian football fans who were laughing at.
Badgerboy replied so well, please read what he wrote and consider it as my reply too, so you can say you were right thinking I would not reply to you.
I guess you support Berlusconi

....

Re: Italy: The final verdict.
Author: bert.kassies Date: 28-10-2006, 21:06	"Everybody knows the full details coz we had many topics on this forum too". There were a lot of rumours on this forum. I didn't see much facts.

Re: Italy: The final verdict.
Author: Kramelito Date: 28-10-2006, 21:48	I didn’t learned all about that story on this forum but they are few topics on Q2/2006 with a lot of rumors and opinions, but some useful links too. So it’s true I mainly picked informations directly from the Italian press, not from this site.

Re: Italy: The final verdict.
Author: panda Date: 29-10-2006, 10:46	The judgments are publicly available and some posters read them. The Moggi transcripts were available for ages; some posters also explained the nature of the offences by other clubs

Author: Overgame
Date: 29-10-2006, 22:37

Yes, so tell me what Milan, Fiorentina and Lazio have done.
Reggina was the only team who hasn"t lost 30 points last season.
And finally, find me ONE sentence in the history of the professionnal football 'harder'.

The loss of 2 titles, 2 years without european cup, relegation and -9 points. You REALLY need a doctor. Marseille was simply relegated, etc.
But a 2 years punishement + loss of a "3rd" title is not enough for you .................

Author: Kramelito
Date: 29-10-2006, 23:58

Overgame:
Sorry to ask, but where do you come from? Are you Italian? What’s your favorite team?
I was so disappointed with the final verdict allowing Juventus to already pretend a promotion this year, I didn’t reacted about the others teams. Juventus’ verdict is an enough big scandal to fill the room. I remember Genoa got relegated in Serie C for fixing ONE game only and I regret Juventus didn’t received such punishment.
What did Milan, Fiorentina, Lazio and Reggina? They’ve cheated, so now they got what they desserve and I wouldn’t cry for them (nothing to do with Berlusconi, I only judge on facts).
For no more stories like Totonero or Calciopoli, we need tough judges on cheating!
My doctor told me we prefer a clean football. I agree. Don’t you?

Author: Overgame
Date: 30-10-2006, 00:06

Belgium Olympic Charleroi.
Genoa was playing in Serie B, when you fix a match, you're considered as last of the division. last of Serie B===>Serie C.

"What did Milan, Fiorentina, Lazio and Reggina? They’ve cheated, so now they got what they desserve and I wouldn’t cry for them (nothing to do with Berlusconi, I only judge on facts)."

GIVE ME FACTS DAMNIT !!!!!
When i've started to read to motivation of the sanction (http://download.repubblica.it/pdf/calcio/motivi_sentenza.pdf), i've discovered a lot of problems with the scandal. The judges CANNOT find ONE MATCH fixed.

READ IT YOURSELF, and don't believe what the mother of the sister of the cousin of your uncle Bob has said.

Author: gone
Date: 30-10-2006, 11:32
Edited by: gone
at: 30-10-2006, 11:33

BTW, they had no evidence against Milan and still punished them. Why? So that Inter can finaly win a scudeto. Did anyone watch the game Milan-Inter? The refery did everything he could to help Inter win. Just look at this pictures:

http://www.9q9q.org/index.php?image=sBHpPlYyUnNj

http://www.9q9q.org/index.php?image=0kqWxSDd9tup

http://www.9q9q.org/index.php?image=UekGhCzYvPOl

http://www.9q9q.org/index.php?image=bqw23XyXuSso

EDIT: This was the 4th goal scored by Inter.

Author: cska
Date: 02-11-2006, 16:04

I don't want to accuse or sentence any team, but all that stuff started with a big outcry and demands for big penalties. Now the penalties are so great, as if they never occured. Even Juventus would have been pardoned if the championship had not started. Now it is too late to put Juve back in Serie A.
But it is ridiculous how smaller teams receive huge penalties for the same thing - Genoa, Regina. And again without clear evidence.
The point here is not whether the big clubs should be relegated or at least severely harmed in points, but whether Italian officials have equal criteria when they penalize smaller teams.
And again - if Italy had been beaten by Australia at the WC in Germany, nobody there would have become so excited and the judges would have been much more strict and severe, instead of little by little pardoning the clubs abd forgetting the whole story.
I like Milan, but I don't like all the plots of Silvio Berlusconi. He was even persecuted for corruption in the past and lost elections for that reason. It's too bad if a good team must suffer because of his shady deals.