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Author: Maluyaca
Date: 01-09-2006, 22:46

Position 6 is important because then you have 3 teams who can play CL and 2 of them are directly qualified.

Current Standings

5 Germany 9.142 4.714 10.571 10.437 1.642 36.506 7/ 7
6 Portugal 10.750 10.250 8.166 5.500 1.750 36.416 6/ 6
7 Romania 2.166 4.333 5.500 16.833 4.333 33.165 3/ 3

8 Russia 3.625 5.875 10.000 10.000 3.125 32.625 4/ 4
9 Netherlands 6.166 5.416 12.000 7.583 0.642 31.807 6/ 7

Portugal can lose their teams but if they don't they will be challenged by Romania for place 6. If both Romanian teams can reach UEFA group stage then they have a change but I guess that it will be Germany and Portugal who win this battle.

Russia and Netherlands have to perform but they have a little change if Portugal will be expelled and Romanian teams fail.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Maluyaca Date: 15-09-2006, 16:05	Update: 5 Germany 9.142 4.714 10.571 10.437 2.785 37.649 7/ 7 6 Portugal 10.750 10.250 8.166 5.500 2.750 37.416 6/ 6 7 Romania 2.166 4.333 5.500 16.833 6.333 35.165 3/ 3 Romania are closing the gap. Maybe that the winner of National - Rapid will be the country who will end up on position 6.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Pedro Date: 15-09-2006, 21:52	Battle? What battle? Let them come, the easier they will go! Greece and Turkey were so close to Portugal ... a few years ago. Where are they now? Our problem is Germany. Not Romania, not Russia, not Netherlands.

Author: chris85
Date: 15-09-2006, 22:18

@Pedro

I can understand your situation and you being upset because of your falling performances in the last years, but don't underestimate Romania because this is the worst thing you could do. After all Portugal is a country that plays it all for the coefficient (and I think you know what I mean...the fact that Portugal dind't sent a team for the IT place) and this is caused also because of Romania's rise.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: STK Date: 15-09-2006, 22:22	1.Pedro 2.Yes prepare yourself, we'll eat u alive! 3.In few years we will specially work to expell you from top 10. 3 jokes ... in order

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: SHEV Date: 15-09-2006, 22:23	Our problem is Germany. Not Romania, not Russia, not Netherlands. That's not very smart approach. Romania lookin like favourite to get 6-th place this year so it's already a problem for Portugal.

Author: Pedro
Date: 15-09-2006, 22:57
Edited by: Pedro
at: 15-09-2006, 22:58

No. Romenia is not a problem. They are just benefiting from a combination of short term factors like competing with 3 teams and getting easy points on qualifying rounds. Soon this advantage will disapear. Next seasons Romenia will have more teams competing and less qualifying rounds points. So, the easier they come, the easier they will go. On the long run Portugal will remain 5th, 6th.

By the way, the idea some romanians have that portuguese teams don't compete on the Intertoto Cup just because we are afraid of Romania is hilarious.
The Intertoto Cup has no tradition in Portugal. No one cares about that cup. In the summer people go to the beach or to the mountains or abroad.They are on holidays.They don't care about football. Teams start their training mid July and the league only starts last week-end of August.

Author: gabriel1
Date: 15-09-2006, 23:12

this week, easy +2p for Romania in the country ranking, that meams flower victory for all romanians teams:
dinamo kiev-Steaua Bucuresti 1-4......2p
Xanti- dinamo Bucuresti 3-4................2p
Rapid Bucuresti - Nacional Madeira 1-0........2p

even Romania start better than last season(16,833), I estimate for this season around 14p and least 6th place in country ranking...so,Germany and Portugal ,prepare your self...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: chris85 Date: 15-09-2006, 23:13	@Pedro Very special country this Portugal...They don't care about football in hollidays and a possible qualification in the UC...interesting when I'm thinking that France, Germany, Spain, England do care about this nonsense. But possibly they are wrong and you are the smart ones... Let's try to be fair and admit that this was a tactic.

Author: mavano
Date: 15-09-2006, 23:15
Edited by: mavano
at: 15-09-2006, 23:19

@ Pedro

What makes you think that in the long run Portugal is better than the Netherlands? You're currently cruising on the points by FC Porto. And they will dissapear very soon! By the start of next season we'll be on top of you. Look at the database!

By the way you watched setubal vs heerenveen last night? If that represents the strength of you're league, than i would look a bit further down the ranking for countries that might give you a problem.....

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gabriel1 Date: 15-09-2006, 23:17	Romania once again the best in Europe!

Author: Pedro
Date: 15-09-2006, 23:31
Edited by: Pedro
at: 16-09-2006, 00:05

@Cris85
When you have 35ºCelsius and great sandy beaches, who cares about football?

@mavano
We rely on Porto, Sporting, Benfica and Boavista's points. Not only on Porto. They all did some great seasons in 5 last years in Europe.
By the way, don't worry about Portugal because we are out of reach for The Netherlands for a very long time. I think you dutch are the ones to worry about Russia and Romenia. THEY ARE ALREADY AHEAD OF YOU!!!!
V.Setubal didn't had a coach. Just a nice guy. Thats why he was sacked today.It was Heerenveen's luck!

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Frk_Slb Date: 15-09-2006, 23:41	I think Portugal will finish this season 5th or 6th place, but next season Portuguese teams have a hard job to keep the position, because we will lose 02/03 points (10.750). It?s a big gap to Romania's (2.166) and Russia's (3.625) ranking points in that season. Hard task to Portugal, but possible!!

Author: Lupta_Steaua
Date: 16-09-2006, 00:06

I am just wondering, how come a 7 coefficient points difference is easier to achieve than a 2 point difference? Or are the Portugese staring to "brag"?

Just joking. We all know that we are biased, and what we write is based on the subjective wish that someone's favorite team will win.

I would like to see Rapid win in Madera as well, but who knows what will happen? This is not because I am Rapid fan, nor is it because I care that much about the coefficients (even though I do), I want them to win because I like caring about a team in a game, and I guess this is why we like football.

Regards.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Lupta_Steaua Date: 16-09-2006, 00:08	By the way Pedro, the beaches might cost you 6th place

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Pedro Date: 16-09-2006, 00:19	@Lupta_Steua Who thinks about the Intertoto Cup or the 6th place when you see all that bikini girls?

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: cinebelul Date: 16-09-2006, 00:27	Germany or Portugal ?!? No! Romania, Germany & Portugal for the 5th & 6th Next year, Romania will have 4 teams, not 6 like Por & Ger.. It seems like Rom will compete with Fra for the 4th place next years, still looking with 4-5 points difference how are Ger, Por, Rus & Hol battling for the 6th...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Lupta_Steaua Date: 16-09-2006, 01:37	Pedro, that is for people like us, fans! ) The players should not be allowed to that ))

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: STK Date: 16-09-2006, 02:22	And i present you: Pedro ... a simple, modest guy who dream about empires at night and search the internet for porn sites during day.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: mavano Date: 16-09-2006, 03:10	@ Pedro Yes, Russia and romania have indeed gone past us. And altough i do not like it, it might help us to "slingshot" ourselfs to the beloved 6th place. You say that Portugal will be ahead of the netherlands for A VERY LONG TIME. Have you looked at the rankings.....? We are in front of Portugal at the start of NEXT season. Do you even know how the rankings work?!

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: TITAN Date: 16-09-2006, 07:33	The obscure match between Rapid and Nacional in the UEFA cup suddenly becomes very important in this coefficient race.

Author: Maluyaca
Date: 16-09-2006, 10:08

As a Belgian with Portuguese parents I want to apoligize for Pedro. I think he does what some of the Romanians do. Talking but not knowing what he is saying or talking as a supporter. This year it can be a battle between Germany, Portugal and Romania for place 6.

Next year Portugals goal will be probably place (7 - 8).

For our Romanian friends I think they will be in the top 8 for some years to come. But to know if they are worth it we only can say that when they stay 5 years in TOP 8 with the coefficient of 6 teams performing in Europe. So only in teamranking 2013 we can say that they deserved that place. They earned the right to have 6 teams (top 8) in Europe because of the strong performance of the teams in Europe last and this year but we all know that they were a little bit lucky too because only competing with 3 teams. But you've to force luck. To get to the top is easier then to stay there.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Overgame Date: 16-09-2006, 10:37	Next year is far.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gabriel1 Date: 16-09-2006, 12:34 Edited by: gabriel1 at: 16-09-2006, 12:36	if Romania will finish on 6th place this year , in the future,we have garantated at least 3 years with 6 teams(+1 it) in Europe beacause Romania has the smallest coefficient than Portugal, Germany ,Russia or Holland in the years 02/03, 03/04 ,04/05 ... ...that will be great because we never ever have until now more than 4 teams in Europa...

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 16-09-2006, 12:52

To be frank I'm not sure I even care that much what position will Romania have in the coefficients table. As long as there are a few good teams that can do well in Europe and earn the respect of fellow competitors it doesn't matter what coefficient you have. Last year was proof that you can achieve results even if you are well outside the top 20.

P.S. Actually Romania has had more than 4 teams in Europe in the past. In 1990/1991 we had 5 teams: Dinamo, Steaua, Universitatea Craiova, Poli Timisoara and Petrolul Ploiesti.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: antonio62tr Date: 16-09-2006, 12:54	You r gonna see it is not so good to have more than 4 teams... I wonder how many teams from Romania will play at Europe next year...

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 16-09-2006, 13:47

Why isn't it good to have more than 4 teams? A high coefficient isn't an end in itself, it is a means to an end. There's no point in having a high coefficient if you don't want to have more than 4 teams.
Is it better never to have more than 4 teams than to have 6 teams even if only for a short while? I bet any football fan from one of the smaller countries would love to see 6 teams from his country play in Europe even for a short period of time.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Paulenci Date: 16-09-2006, 13:52	But dude what 6 teams from ROmania???? maybe four adding CFR Cluj but that's about it..... and don't tell me Timisoara and Farul caz they suck, have any of u guys seen them play ????? So 4 teams should be enough for a while or we'll go with 6 and make a fool of ourselves ... if u go up the expectation will go up

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 16-09-2006, 13:59

Like it matters what will the 6 teams be and what they'll do. Maybe two or three of the six will do well, the rest will be bad and in a few years the number will be cut back again to 4.
And btw Romania managed to suck with only three teams a few years ago. I think it's an improvement - now we'll suck with twice the number of teams

.
Finally as a Steaua fan I quite frankly don't care what these 'other' teams will do as long as Steaua continues to do well in Europe.

Author: moro
Date: 16-09-2006, 14:12

I like Pedro, because he is one of those to carry on the "looser phrase" - "the important thing is to participate, not to win", because now that his Q is drowning, he turns the head to the beach, oranges and bikinis. By the way, in Bucarest you risk to fall down on the street looking at romanians girls, even with clothes on.
I repeat, you should stop crying that Romania has the chance of having only three teams. This is what UEFA Q is about: u have three excellent teams, than you let 4-th, than 5-th to show what they can do. It's simple and logiccal. Than u came out with teams like Setubal and Nacional three years in a row, you go down. Romania will (maybe) go down in 2012- 2013, like Turkey, Greece... Portugal, but what a hell, we have 5 years to enjoy. And don't forget, our economy is doing better every year, maybe soccer will follow.
As far as I'm concerned, I watch with lot of interess at the 2009 table, because I'm going to get that 3-th spot that italian circus does not deserve!!! Go Rapid, go go!

Author: STK
Date: 16-09-2006, 16:02

And i had a pet (his name wasn't Pedro) and i like it too.

Now, Maluyaca who says that we have to stay 5 years in top 8 (ex.) to deserve a specific spot? Either this ranking system is wrong and all countries do not deserve their spots or each spot (even yearly) is deserved. Make up your mind, you the seeding system lovers. How can u say stuff like that, when we came from QR1 and QR2 and meet in QR3 (ex belgium team with lesser coeff that do not play first 2 q rounds). I do not ask much, just a wise use of english subjective terms like "deserved" and "luck".

1) how came a top 8 team that never participated in Europe in last 5 years DESERVE to play directly in first UC round? and other not top 8 teams with may games in EUROPE in many q rounds?
2) how came a X team have the nerve to play direct in CLGS and other teams with better past coefficients (but a lower country one) to play q-rounds?

Why top 5 countries even 6 (with Portugal) deserve their spots? Because they exploited this seeding system? Because they had 1-2 good teams who raise a good coeff and bring in Europe the other crap? Because after that and because of that, the "crap" took serious money and investment from euro cups and now is a richer crap?

This seeding system was orientated by UEFA to bring advantages and invesments in the countries thar are top 5 now, and they choose very carefully the moment to apply it, when other countries was off guard, in reconstruction period and could not profit from the system change like the top 5 did. And now u think that we have to proove something to you. Don't make me laugh. The top 5 must proove that they deserve the spots that UEFA give to them, by having more teams to obtain performances not the same each year.

Any intrusion in top 5 will be KO for UEFA and their financial plans; i just couldn't help myself to smile when i think how their faces will look in that moment and what "new decisions" they will make (from the same category of "we care about football", of course

Author: Ricardo
Date: 16-09-2006, 16:09

Also remember that the 2 good year of Portugal came when they only had 4 teams! A bit like Romania now.
Also I don't think we will have to wait till 2013 to see what the Romanian coefficient will do with 6 teams, in 2 years they are already with 6 teams, I wonder then what we will be discussing: how many unseeded Romanian teams will drop out of UC-R1??
And don't worry about sub-top-teams being crap, those teams also exists in other countries like Holland or Portugal. These teams will grow with the whole Romanian competition. Like in Holland we now have a couple that can do well in Europe: Heerenveen, Utrecht, ... sometimes they qualify, sometimes they don't and you get other teams that qualify. Then they are out in 1st round. It happens. If your top teams are good enough it does not matter for the coefficient that much.
I find it an amazing view to see a complete competition, as it's not just 1 team, has risen its quality in such a short time.

Author: mavano
Date: 16-09-2006, 16:47
Edited by: mavano
at: 16-09-2006, 16:48

The problem for Romania is isn't only the 6 teams. It's the exposure that will get them to lose players to the bigger teams from bigger leagues. And don't think the money earned through the CL will prevent that. If it would, why are teams like PSV or Porto losing it's top players every year? PSV has been playing CL EVERY year for as long as I can remember!

And it will also be hard to attract players to a league were the stadiums are old, low overall attendances and low salaries (The annual budget of a team like Heerenveen (20m euros) is higher than the total Romanian league!).

Don't get me wrong, I applaud you're recent successes and you thoroughly deserve it. I just don't think, that in the long run you'll be able to sustain them.

good luck none the less!

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 16-09-2006, 17:25
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 16-09-2006, 17:53

It's obvious that exposure to CL brings a lot of interest in the players of a cetain team. But it's also true that with a good management it is possible to sell a few players and still remain competitive. Just how someone said - many western teams without huge budgets have to sell players, but they are still able to remain competitive; maybe it's not competitive as in 'I'm gonna kick everybody's ass', but cometitive as in 'I'm gonna give you a hell of a fight'.
And just like Ricardo said in every country (even in very competitive countries) there are teams that suck and that wash-out in early rounds. This is especially true for countries ranked 6-8 or even 4-8.
I know that the next few years will be very though for Romanian teams, with all this attention being drawn; and it will be very though for new comers like CFR Cluj or what other team may enter the European cups. We'll just have to wait and see what will happen.
I think it's wrong to make your mind up in any direction (overly optimistic or overly pesimistic) without having a basis to go on; and regarding Romania there is no basis to talk on, I think, because Romanian football hasn't been in such a position in a long time and the realities of European football have drastically changed since the last time we were in a similar position (namely about 15-20 years ago).

A few more notes:
- as it has been repetedly said Romanian team budgets aren't that large, but to say that 20 million Euros is the total budget of the Romanian top division is a gross exageration. Maybe 20 million is the total budget of 3 or 4 top teams, but not the total budget of the league. Even the poorest team has at least 1 million Euros I think.
- the issue of 'old' stadiums is being adressed. As more, better results appear club owners and municipalities will be forced to invest. This has already happened at Steaua, as the stadium now meets CL requirements.
- low average attendances aren't that low (maybe 6000-7000 for the entire league) and they will surely rise in the case of teams that are succesful in Europe.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: TITAN Date: 16-09-2006, 17:33	The fact that Heerenveen's budget equals the one of the whole Romanian league makes me even prouder for us having these results. Think about Hungary, Croatia, Poland, Serbia etc who have similar budgets and always loose their teams in the first rounds.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: mavano Date: 16-09-2006, 17:51	You should be very proud! I now I would be if I was Romanian.

Author: mavano
Date: 16-09-2006, 18:04

It would surprise me if the lower Romanian teams had a budget of 1 million euro. Last Thursday i heard that the budget of vitoria setubal is just over 1 million!! We're talking about a Portuguese team that's playing in the uefa cup.

And that makes me think....

If we (in Holland) are so rich (relatively). We should be able to be and stay on 6th place! Money wise (apart from the top 5) only Scotland would is comparable.

Author: STK
Date: 16-09-2006, 18:15
Edited by: STK
at: 16-09-2006, 18:21

I say again that the overhall budgets are not very relevant to this discussion. You may compare the salary budgets for more acurate results. Of course Hereenveen have 20 mil euro budget, but how many of this money are from player sellings. They take more and spent more for plalyers. Steaua if were to sold 3-4 good players that had offers and bring in exchange 3-4 talentated players from romanian championship would have the same 20 mil euro budget.

And with this CL qualification Steaua's players will have considerable salary increases, so is harder to take them. Also the players do not have clauses in their cotracts to specify a minimul release fee. So it is not necesarely only an offer with a slight better salary for a Steaua player to leave. If were so the thave been long gone.

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 16-09-2006, 18:21
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 16-09-2006, 18:52

I'll look into it and I'll see if I kind find more info regarding the budget issue, to see how far off I am.

Edit: according to 'Saptamana financiara' ('Financial week' - a leading Romanian financial newspaper) the top 5 teams in Romania all have budgets of at least 5 million Euros. Even if this doesn't offer info on the budgets of smaller clubs it does already disprove a claim that the total budget of Liga I is only 20 million.

Some other info I've found in 'Gandul' ('The thought' another important Romanian newspaper)
Steaua - around 7 million E
Dinamo - around 7 million E
Rapid - 5 million E
Poli Timisoara - between 5 and 9 million E
CFR Cluj - 5,5 million E
FC Arges - 2,5 million E
FC National - around 2 million E
Poli Iasi - 2,5 million E
Universitatea Craiova - 1,7 million E
Farul Constanta - 2,5 million E (from 'Cuget liber', a local newspaper from Constanta)

Author: moro
Date: 16-09-2006, 18:30

I think, I hope that in 2-3 years there will be very few transfers of players, maybe because some high political european forum will open the eyes and see it's somehow looking like sclave market. Instead throwing millions for transfers, it's better to rise salary (let's give every Steaua player 300.000 a year instead of 120.000, I know, I know, Radoi already has that money). Give them 400.000. It means 6 millions/year for 15 players. One more million for re-reserves. Any romanian Ch.L. team can do this (money won in group stage). Make them signe the paper for 5 years (2 millions) with 100 millions transfer-fee, they'll signe eyes closed. Steaua stupidly payed 1 million for Thereau (they have three better players than him on the bench), for Saban also. They should've keep the money for own players.
I dont think our teams will loose many players. Of course, you must be stupid to refuse 9-10 millions for one man, wich make you live for two years.

Author: mavano
Date: 16-09-2006, 18:42
Edited by: mavano
at: 16-09-2006, 18:52

I dont know much about Heerenveens budget, apart from it's size. And yes by selling Huntelaar to Ajax and Samaras to Man city, They made a lot of money. But they paid 4,5 million euro for Alves this summer. And don't forget that they have a stadium with 27.000 seats wich is sold out virtually every match! And the prices for those tickets are waaaaay bigger than those in Romania (or Portugal for that matter).

The biggest problem for the Netherlands though, is the tax system. Ajax' top level salary is between 3 and 3.5 million euros. But that's the amount before taxes! The player will only receive around 1.5 million! In virtually every other country in Europe that amount would be closer to 2.5 million......if not more!

edit

after Romanian budget list:

My apologies, i was exaturating a bit

But still, the difference is huge!

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 16-09-2006, 18:57
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 16-09-2006, 19:06

The difference is huge, but fortunatelly money doesn't play on the pitch, actual human beings do. That's why Chelsea doesn't win CL every year and that's why a Romanian team can beat a foreign team with 5-10 its budget.
Also budgets have increased over the last few years. 5-6 years ago there were no more than 2 or 3 teams with budgets of over 3 million and no more than 5-6 teams had more than 2 million.

More info I've found for those interested:
Pandurii Targu-Jiu - 2 million E (declared on the official website of the club)
UT Arad - 4 million E (I find this doubtful, but it is a statement made by one of the people in charge at UTA)

Author: mavano
Date: 16-09-2006, 19:08

Yes, in individual matches anything can happen. And I'm just as glad with that as you! But do you really think money doesn't rule? Do you really think that the Spanish league is a the top of the ranking cause they have so many talented youngsters.......?

Overall the money will always rule. It's ruling more than ever. The gap between the top 3 and the rest is becoming larger and larger. Even Germany and France are starting to lose more and more ground on them. A low ranked team in England for instance can pay higher salaries than top teams from countries like Portugal, Holland, Belgium, Romania. It's sad......... but happening whether we like it or not.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Giuseppe Date: 16-09-2006, 19:19	I know money in football is very important, but it's not decisive. There are teams like Lyon or Villarreal that by Romanian standards have huge budgets, but they pale in comparison to those of Chelsea, Real Madrid or Milan for example. Of course it's one thing compare 50 million to 100 million and quite another to compare 10 million with 50 million.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 16-09-2006, 19:39

Talking about money giving Holland its sixth place: I'm not sure about that. There some teams in Russia, Ukraine, Turkey that have a larger budget than the 55 Mln PSV has as a budget...
Also what currently looks like to be happening: do away with the transfermarket is very worse for the smaler countries/teams. Then all a clubs money is spent on salaries!!! Can you imagine, Chelsea spending all their 200 Mln investment a year on salaries? It would mean that even raising players hardly is worthwhile anymore. A player can leave very easily to earn more somewhere else...It would be very bad.

Author: mavano
Date: 16-09-2006, 20:42

PSV hasn't got the biggest budget in Holland. Ajax' budget is 65 million. and would have been over 70 had they reached the champions league. Apart from that iI wasn't refering to the biggest budget in a league, I meant the average budget. But your right though. I just read for instance that Shaktars budget is 90 million.

BTW, if we would only look at the highest budget; Scotland would be in the top 5.... I believe Celtic has a budget over 100 million

Author: vlad-tzepesh
Date: 16-09-2006, 20:43
Edited by: vlad-tzepesh
at: 16-09-2006, 20:47

Steaua surely has a bigger budget now, as they are going to receive at least 5 M for their presence in the group stage, not counting TV rights and tickets sold. I guess the total budget of the champions will amount to about 11 M in the end. As regards Poli Timisoara, they have a lot more than 5 M. Marian Iancu, the team's owner, said a couple of weeks ago that he invested almost 20 M in the last year and a half. If I recall correctly, they spend more than 4 M only on new players twice a year and heavy investment has been made in the infrastructure. Poli probably has 10-12 M, but this could easily go up should the team qualify for the European cups. I know it's not very impressive, but compared to the situation a few years back, this is a huge improvement.

Author: gabriel1
Date: 16-09-2006, 21:05
Edited by: gabriel1
at: 16-09-2006, 22:03

For romanians:
Portughezii se tem de noi!
SPERIATI

Cotidianul O Jogo avertizeaza asupra pericolului ca fotbalul lusitan sa piarda locul sase �n ierarhia coeficientilor UEFA si cere ca Nacional Madeira sa elimine Rapidul din Cupele Europene.

"Atentie, pericolul vine dinspre Romania!", titreaza O Jogo. "Pana acum ne uitam cu atentie la ce fac ucrainenii, ei fiind potentialii rivali la locul 6, dar acum ei se pregatesc sa spuna adio Europei aproape pe toate fronturile. In schimb, Romania aduna puncte dupa puncte, si din aceasta perspectiva returul dintre Nacional Madeira si Rapid devine de o importanta covarsitoare. In conditiile in care Setubal e deja afara din Cupa UEFA, doar Braga avand mari sperante sa intre �n grupe, iar FC Porto, Benfica si chiar Sporting nu pot fi cu nimic sigure de un drum lung �n Liga Campionilor, e clar ca Nacional trebuie sa treaca de Rapid pentru a puncta �n confruntarea directa", scriu portughezii. @prosport

For Portugal fans:
...even O Jogo say that is a match for 6th place between Romania and Portugal...and you are scared by us

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: vlad-tzepesh Date: 16-09-2006, 21:43	Pana acum ne uitam cu atentie la ce fac ucrainenii, ei fiind potentialii rivali la locul 6. How on Earth could they consider Ukraine as Portugal's big rival?

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Giuseppe Date: 16-09-2006, 22:07	Leaving Romania out of the picture for a moment, I would imagine they'd consider the Netherlands or Russia potential contenders before starting to think of Ukraine.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Pedro Date: 17-09-2006, 00:21 Edited by: Pedro at: 17-09-2006, 01:21	@Maluyaca How dare you speak in other people's name? If you are belgium, don't speak in the name of the portuguese.Ok? Try the romanians. We don't need you! @STK Beware of personal ofenses. I also have pets! By the way, I don't have your vices.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 17-09-2006, 02:56

It will be fascinating to see what happens in the next few years.

Romania's high coefficient from last year and good start this suggests they are stone-wall certainties for 6 teams in Europe in either 2008-09 or 2009-10. More probably 2008-09 the way things are going this year. They also look sure to stay there for a few years even if the next years are fairly disastrous - because last year's coefficient is so strong & this year's is promising too.

Russian clubs have much investment and look set to be at least a "top ten" country for a while - certainly aiming for a top 8 spot asap. They have proved inconsistent in the past (though before the current investments) - 10th in 2002, down as low as 21st two years later and now 9th again after two more years. They only had to contend with six teams for two seasons - so that can't have been the reason for the drastic fall.

And Portugal & Holland have proven over the years to be consistent "top 8" countries. Portugal only dropping out of the top 8 for 4 out of the past twenty seasons (then not lower than 10th) and the Dutch arguably even better - 17 out of the past 19 seasons in the top 8. By comparison with the Russians, Portugal have coped with six teams for six of the ten seasons this has been possible - the Dutch have done so for ten.

Four countries fighting for three places (never mind the 6th spot). Something's got to give...

Author: STK
Date: 17-09-2006, 16:31

@badgerboy,

Will be an expected situation: Romania will probably raise positions this year and then next (with 4 teams), and then fall even outside top 10 (with 6 teams). So the countries ranked 4-16, when have 3-4 teams raises, when have 5-7 fall down. Nothing fascinating about. Only top 3 have guarantated position, because the kept their positions despite the large number of uncompetitive teams for a long time.

I assure you that if were to reset coefficient (all to 0) the top will be different.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: moro Date: 17-09-2006, 17:30	Yes, but Romania will be 3-rd probably in 2009, surely in 2010. I'm not sick.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Giuseppe Date: 17-09-2006, 17:33	3rd in 2009 and 1st in 2010

Author: porto-1978
Date: 17-09-2006, 19:55

"Portughezii se tem de noi! "

Don?t be ridiculous!

I see Romania as having good chances to be in top6 but i?m not afraid because i know Romania will be such as Greece or Turkey or Scotland before... First go up then go down. Portugal will be there to catch you, don?t worry. This is if it happens that Romania catch Portugal... it?s not liquid...

To pay atention to something is not necessarly to be affraid of that thing.

But it seems that...
Romania se tem de tout mond...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: STK Date: 17-09-2006, 20:00 Edited by: STK at: 17-09-2006, 20:06	Romania se tem de tout mond... Don't be ridiculous, we don't fear no one! The word "fear" do not exist in romanian laguage. Take my word for that. And guys please STOP speaking in other laguages and use english to understand eachother. This is the rule here. You may use private contacts for writing in chinese, latin or a klingon dialect, etc.

Author: coppo
Date: 17-09-2006, 20:30

I must admit: in the past I did also some predictions as supporter (fan) and but as analyst I will do it now to make it clear for once and ever and will predict like we can now. Further discussions can only take place after further draws, and games...

1/ Romania:
Steau: 3rd place (persons who think Steau will become 2nd or even 1st, don't know anyting of soccer; then you're hoping but not predicting)
Dinamo and Rapid: at least UEFA group phase
2/ Russia:
CSKA: at least 3 rd place
Spartak: will be eliminated
Kazan: will be eliminated
Lokomitv: at least UEFA group phase
3/ Portugal:
Benfica, Sporting Lisboa and Porto: at least 3rd place
Braga: at least UEFA group phase
Setubal and Funchal: eliminated
4/ Germany:
Leverkusen, Frankfurt, Schalke: at least UEFA group phase
Hertha, Hamburg: eliminated
Bayern: continue in group phase CL
Werder: UEFA group phase

If we see this, we will see at first sight that Romania has the best cards. BUT because the teams who continue of other countries are stronger than Romanian teams, I don't think Romanian coefficient will much higher than 10.0 (total of about 40 which is a great result). But to be honest, Germany and Portugal (with their European top teams like Porto, Bayern) will easily reach 6 points (total of 41!). I don't think Russia will get before Romania although I think CSKA and Lokomotiv are European top teams...but because the low coefficients of Kazan and Spartak, Romania don't have to have fear...

A remark which I told already before at this forum: when you're already at place 6, it is very difficult to become 7th. From place 6 you have at least two good teams (1st and 2nd of last year) in CL and enough teams qualified in first round of UEFA. Nevertheless Portugal is great soccer country... but imagine that fe. Ukraine or Romania or every country until place 14th Turkey would start at place 6, they never will be inhaled. In the other way you'll see it is almost impossible for an other country (every country) to get at place 6...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: SHEV Date: 17-09-2006, 20:46	Steau: 3rd place (persons who think Steau will become 2nd or even 1st, don't know anyting of soccer; then you're hoping but not predicting) I wouldn't be so sure about this. Considering the fact that they are in great form and very unpredictable team - they could finish at any place.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 17-09-2006, 20:47

I disagree with this. If you are 6th you play no qualification matches and so if not too good teams qualify they can go out in the first round and bring no points at all. Holland had a couple of yeara ago NEC&NAC who brought togehter 0 points because they lost bothe matches in the first round. It can happen. Also having 2 or 3 good teasm in CL doe snot guarantee a lot of points. 1st not always the top-3 teams of a country end up 1-2-3, in the couple of years Holland had 3 CL teams it only happened 1 time that Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord played CL together. Just in that year PSV & Feyenoord ended up becoming 4th in their group.
And with a country that only has 3 or 4 teams with some 'drive' thye pass you and you are 7th.

Also I see here that people talk different opinions, but mean the same. You have to split between short-term and long term:
Because of last- ans this year result, Romania will be in top-6 for 1 or more years. After these 2 years drop out we still have to see what happens then...

Author: STK
Date: 17-09-2006, 21:03

@coppo,

Please state your argument for the prediction that Steaua will finish 3rd and not 4th or 2nd or 1st.

I'm begining to feel sick by some kind of people who came and make this kind of observation, write 10-20 lines of subjective crap, and if it's ok 'till now (their opinions), they have the nerve to say that their analyse is far best, and others with different opinion do not no nothing about "soccer".

BUT because the teams who continue of other countries are stronger than Romanian teams, I don't think Romanian coefficient will much higher than 10.0 (total of about 40 which is a great result)

What the f*** do u know about how strong romanian teams are? Do u hardly know few romanian player (maby none), u write "Steau" (in place of Steaua), if i ask you to say what romanian teams do u see playing in Europe, the answer will be none, you do not have the vaguest ideea about the budgets and salaries here, you do not have at least a clue about what is the european team with most game in Europe in the last 3 year, and u think that u have the right to say about other that do not know nothing about a sport that is called actually football not "soccer", because they say that that Steaua will finish 1st or 2nd in the group. This is far to insulting.

I understand to respect and apreciate teams like Real and Lyon, but how can u predict with such ovious subjectivism how would they react against Steaua, when u oviously don't now nothing about us, tactics, players, coach, how we play home/away etc.

And to make generalisations like teams from country X are stronger like teams from country Y, what is your objective basis? Other then ... i think or i belive.

It's your opinion to say any crap u want, but keep home remarks like "x do not know nothing about football because say that team A wiil finish 1st", or terms like "deserve", "luck".

I see more and more people with ovious imposibility to express an opinion without using subjective arguments and insulting to other, unfortunately.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: MalcolmW Date: 17-09-2006, 21:28 Edited by: MalcolmW at: 17-09-2006, 21:30	And of course, while 40/4 is 10 Romania only have 3 teams, so a total estimated at 40 would yield a figure of 13+ for this season - not 10!!!

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 18-09-2006, 06:56

i think romania must follow the example of HOLLAND who had 3 v good teams :ajax, psv and feyenoord and, while having 6 teams in europe manidged to increase the value of onother 2 teams :AZ and herenveen and i think gronigen os playing good football also...
(AAABBC)
PORTUGAL on the other hand has porto, sporting and benfica, boavista was good but dissapeared , braga seems to rise and national plays well (acceptable), no offence
(AAABCD)
RUSSIA has cska over lokomotiv and zenit but theyr level is under holland best 3 or portugal best 3, spartak is a step lower and the rest are mediocre (in europe)or at least not capable to bring points in no-qualifying rounds
(ABBCDD)
BELGIUM is constantly anderlecht and brugges, that are strong and solid teams, standard sold many players and the rest are mediocre (same as russia)
(AABDDD)
UKRAINE has dynamo and sahtior strong and solid teams comparable with anderlecht and brugges but have teams like dnipro or metalurh that are impoving so something IS coming from behind
(AABCDD)
SCOTLAND has celtic and rangers strong and solid teams , hearts is 2-3 steps behind and the rest is mediocre
(AACDDD)
SWITZERLAND has basel a strong and solid team, but a very instable 4-5 teams (zurich, thun, grasshoppers,sion..)that can play v well 1 season than mediocre the next one, still theres definitelly something coming from behind
(ABCCCD)
BULGARIA has levsky a strong team , cska and litex solid teams, reliable on geting points and loc sofia a beautiful surprize
(ABBB-CDD)
GREECE , well i think greece is sinking, all teams seem to play worse than 2-4 years ago, still AEK, and olimpiakos are strong teams, poanatinaikos seems 1 step behind ,paok seemd to be a good team , iraklis is a beautiful surprize and the others are mediocre
(AABBCC)

Author: moro
Date: 18-09-2006, 13:23

I'm not sure at all Porto 3-rd of the group, I think they'll make same as last year. Sporting could finish 2, 3 or 4 also, with few points (7?) in very tough group.
Steaua need a 0-0 against Lyon, this is possible because now for french team Steaua means danger, I hope they will agree draw game. And maybe Realjuve will not improve, who knows, two draws against Kiev, draw and victory agains Steaua, draw Lyon - 7 points, Steaua beat Kiev, one draw Lyon, one draw Real and that's it.
Rapid looks on the wave, excellent game against Steaua yesterday, they should go through.
However, I'm still hoping another thing, because Chievo's not dead yet...

Author: TITAN
Date: 18-09-2006, 13:24

I think the conclusion is clear: there are a few countries (England, Spain, Italy, maybe France and Germany) who will keep their first places even if they'd play with 10 teams in Europe. They just have the best players in the world and the biggest budgets. It's an industry, it's a system, things cannot go wrong on a long term.

And there are the transitory 6-15th places where various countries go up and down, with a plus in stability for Netherlands and Portugal.

Yes, Romania will rise and then fall, we know that. But we want to enjoy this while it happens, because there are already too many years since we last done it.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gabriel1 Date: 18-09-2006, 15:12 Edited by: gabriel1 at: 18-09-2006, 15:15	yes, of course... Romania will stay al least for 3 years in 5-6 places...that means 6 teams in Europe...that is so great...not 1 years...and for sure 3 years with 6 teams in Europe...due to the high coefficient in the last year and in this year ,until now...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: aetius Date: 19-09-2006, 13:05	My estimations for next matches , day 2 in cl and 2leg of R1 in uefa cup for 5 country: germany 1.286 portugal 0.500 romania 1.333 russia 1.500 holland 1.143 that means romania is closing to portugal but germany surely on 5th place for next season. also russia closing a bit to romania but will lose 1team

Author: Overgame
Date: 19-09-2006, 13:18

The battle for the 5th-6th place is between Germany-Portugal-Romania-Russia-Netherlands.

German teams are not in a bad position, but not good. 1 of them is already qualified, 2 are in a good position and 1 is bad. The 2nd leg will be very important.

For Portugal, 1 team is out, 1 is in a average position, and 1 is almost qualified.

Romania is easy : 1 team almost qualified, and 1 team in an average position.

Russia is a in bad position : 1 team is almost out, and the second is in danger.

Netherlands already lost a team, Groningen and AZ are in great danger. They need a small miracle to finish 6th.

My prediction : same ranking than now. Ger-Por-Rom-Rus-Ned

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gabriel1 Date: 19-09-2006, 13:27 Edited by: gabriel1 at: 19-09-2006, 13:34	my prediction for fantastic trio(S, D, R) of Romanania is: Steaua - Lyon 2-1 Dinamo -Xanti 4-1 Nacional - Rapid 0-2 => another +2p for Romania... ps: in Romanian championship, last stage(8)......steaua-rapid 1-1 tomorow(stage 9) will be dinamo-steaua...my prediction for this derby is X again...

Author: athos
Date: 19-09-2006, 13:50

Hey, guys! There's no need to discuss this. It is clear, that Romania will be in the 1st place by 2010!

And this year Steaua will win the CL and in the UEFA cup the final will be Rapid-Dinamo. :D

Ok, seriously: I said it before, there is NO NEED for Romania to get the 6th place. Places 7-9 are just fine! These are the positions, that can be kept for a longer period of time. 1-6 positions are just to much for current romanian situation. On those positions there are countries, where football is an industry.
So one team directly in CL groups and another in QR3? Halleluya! Fantastic!

By the way, have you guys noticed how interesting the situation of Romania is? Almost ALL of the points are gathered in the last 2-3 years. So, they are going to stay in the top 9 for at least 3 years from now meaning at least one romanian team in CL! Everybody should try to get used to it, like you did with greek teams.

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 19-09-2006, 19:30

@athos

personally i would prefer position 7-10 after coming down from 5-6 and after 1-2 years on 7-10 atempting to reach 5-6 again, if there are countries that want to stay between positions like 7-10 or 10-15 15-21, without desire to climb up its perfect, just romania is not one of them and romanians want to be as high as possible, it wont hurt us if we fall it will make us more ambitios

my predictions for next weeks games are:
romania 1.000 - 1.333
portugal 0.833 - 1.166
russia 1.000 - 1.250
holland 1.142 - 1.428

Author: coppo
Date: 19-09-2006, 21:14
Edited by: coppo
at: 19-09-2006, 21:21

Next match day:

Romania : 1.333 (2 draws, 1 win)
Russia: 1.25 (2wins, 1 draw)
Netherlands: 1.3 (3 wins, 3draws)
Germany: 1.1 (3 wins, 2 draws)
Ukraine: 1.25 (2 wins, 1 draw)
Belgium: 0.6 (1 win, 1 draw)
Scotland:1.25 (2 wins, 1 draw)
Bulgaria: 1.0 (2 wins)

Nevertheless to the Romanians: don't dream too much of 6th place. Not reachable according to me.

@STK: it is possible that there is revival of Romanian soccer and coefficients proove this but isn't it strange that you come from let's say place 20 to place 6 in two years... ? Therefor factor luck plays also a role according to my modest opinion.
*** Steau is very strong team but I find it a bit weared to compare them with O. Lyon and R. Madrid... I wouldn't bet...for a team which lost against Middlesborough last year.

Author: shrike
Date: 19-09-2006, 21:56

If Romania wants to be in 6th place they should do it this year or next year. Yhe history shows us that (apart from the big 5)it is almost impossible to reach the 6th place from position 7 or 8. Look for example at Holland, they always score better than other not top 5 countries with 6 teams. But when those positon 6 countries lose there high points from the years when they got less teams another country takes over the 6th place from behind with one or two higher scores with less teams. So for Holland it might be not so bad if they will lose 2 teams for one or two years.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 19-09-2006, 22:39	say that to that team's fans and explain how theyr team should stay out of europe because its best for the coefficient...

Author: moro
Date: 20-09-2006, 13:04

Why is everybody crying that Romania don't deserve the 6-th place only because we did the coefficient in 2 years? Don't you see that ours teams are playing almost "perfect" match every round? Last year only the draw could stop one of our teams. And is 3/3, not 2/6 or other. We deserve the 6-th place and we'll keep it, because our 3 top teams have nice coefficient, Steaua over 50, Rapid will maybe touch 40 this year, Dinamo about 35. And next year even better, so seeded every time, at least 2-nd and 3-rd pot in CL!
We need 6-th place because we can make better coefficient next year in this position, than 7-th or 8-th.
Romania and Russia will explose the statistics. It is good sense.

Author: shrike
Date: 20-09-2006, 13:50

@dinamo_fan_4_ever

I'm not saying they should lose two, but only it could create another chance for 6th place if they onfurnately will lose two UC places.

@moron

I don't read what you're discribing. People only have in general the opinion that with six teams Romania won 't keep their top 6-8 position. It doesn't say that it isn 't a marvelous achievment of Romania. They should keep 6 teams for a couple of years now and that is something to be proud of.

Author: Auke
Date: 20-09-2006, 14:17

I don't think anybody is crying... But I can imagine that some people find it not really fair. Of course it is absolutely fair, because this is simply how this system works!

But if you look at the system notice the following. This system is made like this so we are able to compare the strength of the different national leagues, and allocate a number of entries in european cups. This strength of the national leagues is measured over 5 years to get a realistic view. The question a lot of people ask is: how realistic is it to say that measured over the past 5 years the Romanian league has been stronger than the Dutch and Portugese league? I think the only answer you can give is that this is not realistic. As I said before, the romanians completely deserve their high ranking, they played really good last year and the start of this year. The system just works like this. Look at some figures: the ranking of the portugese, romanian and dutch clubs in the past 4 years:

05-06
por: 18,53,60,78,78,89,
rom: 4,11,46,
net: 29,35,35,48,82,93,

04-05
por: 6,33,33,74,79,89,
rom: 43,86,101
ned: 3,8,38,42,47,68

03-04
por: 2,24,45,69,
rom: 52,68,117
ned: 12,57,58,58,106,106

02-03
por: 8,14,66,74
rom: 100,117,130
ned: 15,49,49,56,83,110

These are the past 4 seasons that count for the current ranking. Last year the romanians did very well, ending up with two teams that scored better than all portugese and dutch teams. But this is the only year: In the other three years the romanians were miles behind: the best romanian club was ranked lower than the third portugese club in all 3 years.

The problem for portugal and netherlands has been stated before, the good results of their top clubs is divided by six. That is why the netherlands scored in their best year (04-05: 3,8,38,etc) much less (12.000) than romania (05-06: 4,11,46) did (16.833), while the clubs prestated better.

So I don't think a 6th place for Romania is a realistic ranking for the strength of their league, not yet. But it will be a well deserved place according to the calculation methods we use.

Author: gluer
Date: 20-09-2006, 15:15
Edited by: gluer
at: 20-09-2006, 15:19

5 Germany 9.142 4.714 10.571 10.437 2.785 {b>37.649{/b> 7/ 7
6 Portugal 10.750 10.250 8.166 5.500 2.750 {b>37.416{/b> 6/ 6
7 Romania 2.166 4.333 5.500 16.833 6.333 {b>35.165{/b> 3/ 3

I don't said it's a good thing... but I think that Romania will be on 5th... Look, just 2.500 - 3.000 points and Romania will be on 5th.

I prefer the 6th place rather than 5th.

P.S. Romania will be in top 7 next 4-5 years

P.S.2 : Competitive Romanian teams: Steaua, Dinamo Buc, Rapid Buc, Poli Timisoara, CFR Cluj

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gluer Date: 20-09-2006, 15:22	@coppo... You will see Steaua playing with Lyon and Real... after that you'll change your oppinion

Author: moro
Date: 20-09-2006, 16:30

auke and shrike

First of all, we'll keep 6-th position only two yeras, true, because after that we'll be third for three more years, just look at the ranking.
Portugal and Holland's championship stinks under 5-th place. Any romanian team from 1-12 will beat your 6-th place. And loose against Benfica and maybe sometimes PSV. Stop claiming yopur superiority cause nobody outside your country (and mine) looks those champhionships.
Now if you're german, I'll say that your championship is certainly better. We will however pass in front.
About teams positions, for next 5 years Steaua, Rapid and Dinamo can only improve, so it'll be better and better.
Romanian country coefficient will pass 50 in 18 months. When did Portugal or Holland reached something like that?

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: SHEV Date: 20-09-2006, 16:53	I'm watching Netherlands and Portugal championships.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: shrike Date: 20-09-2006, 16:54	@auke You can add to your opinion about the strenght of the leagues that it's a strange method of caculation when you consider that Romania reached the no.1 position (2005/2006) while Spain won both the CL and the UC.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: moro Date: 20-09-2006, 17:09	Shev, either you work for a sport-paper, or you're rich and bored, or you're betting a lot, but to watch dutch ch-ship and portuguese is incredible.

Author: Lupta_Steaua
Date: 20-09-2006, 17:25
Edited by: Lupta_Steaua
at: 20-09-2006, 18:27

Shrike, you forgot to mention that Portugal was not on first place, when Porto won the CL.

I also think it was unfair for Romania to have only 3 teams (unseeded, also) for so long. But, that's the way the system works, and I guess, it is not that bad after all, since fairness finally makes its way through

And by the way, in terms of coeficients, both Barcelona and Sevilla were above Steaua. Moreover, Arsenal was above Sevilla (I just wonder if this proves a point about UC offering more points than CL?).

Than again Steaua is above Middlesbrough. Not sure what this means, but my best guess is that the English team caught a really lucky day, while the Romanians did not find the way to protect themselves from that

Author: badgerboy
Date: 20-09-2006, 18:15

It's undeniably getting easier and easier to get a high UEFA coefficient with only moderate achievements.

Way back in 1990-91 - the last year before a CL Group Stage was first introduced - the maximum achievable coefficient, with either three or four teams, was 23.000. That meant every team winning every match played - two teams in the UEFA Cup Final.

That total has increased a number of times since. Now, excluding qualifying rounds, a similar achievement with three clubs would bring a coefficient of 32.333 (32.000 with four). Last year a 100% record for Romanian clubs would've given a coefficient of 33.333. They achieved a little over half of that (50.499%).

Interestingly, using the same measure, Spain & Italy's achievement last year was actually better. Spain's coefficient of 15.642 was 52.14% of the maximum achievable (30.000); Italy's 15.357 was 51.19%of the same 30.000.

In each of the past two seasons (since the UEFA Cup Group Stage came in) no less than seven countries have achieved a coefficient greater than 10.000. Up to 1998-99 there wasn't normally more than two countries that did this. From 1999-2000 to 2003-04 the numbers were 5,3,6,4,4.

So although Romania's coefficient last year was undoubtably a very good one maybe the magnitude of the achievement is being overrated by some.

Author: Lupta_Steaua
Date: 20-09-2006, 18:38

badgerboy, we had this situation not only last year (I mean the number of available points).

I looked at the numbers that you provided, and I think it does make sense to offer more "available" points to lower ranked countries, because other wise, we would be simply protecting the status quo, with no chances to advance in the rankings.

And actually thinking about it, the 3.333 diference is very small considering the event of each of the countries losing just 1 team in earlier rounds.

Author: moro
Date: 20-09-2006, 21:39

For those who like betting, I saw last two games of Steaua (against Rapid 1-1 with biiiig help of the refferee, tonight 0-1 against Dinamo). They looked very tired, uninspired, far-far away from Kiev match, and there's still one more championship game to come before Lyon.
For me it's gonna be an easy win for Lyon, 2-0.
Rapid looks very well, unless Nacional descover some Obelix magical potion, I dont't see them winning.
No ofense for Steaua fans, I know Lyon very well, this time Steaua's gonna loose.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: STK Date: 20-09-2006, 21:49 Edited by: STK at: 20-09-2006, 22:21	Tonight result is irrelevant. Steaua played also 9 players and was close to take a draw; the goal was scored also in extra-time. If you want a bet advise the go an put either: Steaua - Lyon 2-0 either Steaua - Lyon 3-1 I can't guarantee any other result. If you choose something else, you bet on your own risk !!!

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Lyonnais Date: 20-09-2006, 22:31	Domestic leagues and European Cups are different competitions, so Steaua loss to Dinamo doesn't mean much for their next European game. In contrary, they might be under pressure to do well vs. Lyon. badgerboy, very interesting stats. thanks

Author: moro
Date: 20-09-2006, 23:23

Now let's see: a miserable nearly 0-0 against Dinamo it's irrelevant; but maybe saying that they were inexistent in attack it is. They weren't 9 but las 5 minutes. The game against Rapid was a weak one also; irrelevant too?? Did you ever saw Lyon playing football? They will get football out of our romanians heads. I hope Steaua will win, like I hope I will get up healthy tomorrow, but now Steaua is going low. U saw the trainer (Olaroiu) out of his minds? It was the same after Rapid-Steaua. That's the sign they are not clear.
Maybe I'm nervous tonight, but I saw Kiev playing some games last year, they stink...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: GRAY_FOX_PT Date: 21-09-2006, 04:18	do you want to compare romanian football to portuguese football?? are you crazy ??portugal are a lot better ,we have more european cups than romenia .you are nothing compared to us

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 21-09-2006, 09:51

the dinamo - steaua match was irrelevant, steaua was tired and dinamo seemed unable to attack a 10 men team (it wasnt red card for thereau)
but my guess is that match would have ended 0-0 11vs11 even if they played all week, for sure steaua wouldnt have scored and probably neither dinamo.

about the 6th place, rememeber last year dinamo and rapid were unseeded and won vs everton and feyenoord. and it was a direct match feyenoord - rapid with rapid ending 3rd the previous season and feyenoord top 4 i presume and rapid was better, also rapid and dinamo were in the last potin the UC groups, rapid ended 1st and dinamo last but we beat cska moscow at home and drew herenveen so another 2 encounters romania-russia and romannia - holland, and still another 1 steaua - herenveen 3-1 agg won by us.

so, when u say dutch football is in front of romanian u say that ajax and psv are better than romanian teams (still in discuss because they didnt recently meat) but feyenoord, az and herenveen are not , gronigen probably isnt , twente for sure and so on. romania 4,5,6 places can be cfr cluj, poli timisoara and otelul galati all unseeded like rapid and dinamo last year...

Author: Auke
Date: 21-09-2006, 10:04

@ Moro

if you think the dutch and portugese competitions stink below 5th place, the romanian competition must have been stinking a lot more until recently. As I already stated, the best romanian clubs for a long time could be compared to the numbers 4,5,6 of the portugese and dutch competition! I'm not claiming any superiority at all, I'm just looking at the facts.

Indeed it is possible for Romania to reach 45-50 points and a place in top-5. Both Portugal and Netherlands have never reached that. But that still doesn't mean the romanian clubs were better! Another simple example is the number of finals, semi-finals and quarterfinals teams reached for the past 4 years (leaving out 01-02 when feyenoord won the uefacup...):

Por:
cups won: 2
lost finals: 1
lost semifinals: 1
lost quarterfinals:1

Rom:
cups:
lost finals:
semifinals:1
quarterfinals:1

Net:
cups:
lost finals:
semifinals:2
quarterfinals:2

To me it is clear which country was the best of these three the past 4 years...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 21-09-2006, 10:06	by the way, if romania had had 6 teams last year: -2,333 from the qualifing rounds so 14.500 14.500/2 = 7.250 with tha last 3 teams gaining no pts from the minimum 6 games and with only steaua seeded in the UC ROUND1 , thats 1 seeded 5 unseeded, dont u all think in this situation 7.250 is un excellent coeff ??

Author: shrike
Date: 21-09-2006, 10:26

dinamo_fan_4_ever

Yes it is and they probably had got some more points with those extra teams than the 7,250 you mentioned. It would be nice to see one out of the big 3 to lose there 4th CL ticket.But I still cannot imagine it will last for long. (although nice for a few years)Next to the fact that Romania with 6 teams will have a hard time to keep up, w'll also see that the top 3 countries are usely buying our best players when we've more succes.

auke

You mentioned that Portugal never reached a 5th place, but they did. Holland was 5th for 4 years till 1999. Further back they were 3rd in 1982 en 2nd in 1973,1974,1978 and 1979. Portugal was 5th in 1990 and were 4th 3 years on a row in the sixties.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 21-09-2006, 11:32

If you look at Hollands battle for 6th spot, which they hel in 2000 and 2001, you see they were passed by Greece in 2002, and Greece had 4 teams for rankings 2001 and 2002. In 2005 Holland passed Greece again as they had to play with 6 teams
In 2003 Portugal passed Holland having for 2003 and 2004 4 teams. They have not yet passed back again and will not do this year, but maybe next year?
And so now Romania (and Russia?) will pass Holland. Will they ever get to that 6th place again? Or will all the time another country drop in from a {6 teams-spot to pass them. Maybe indeed the only way to get there is to drop out of the top-8 for 1 or 2 years and then also have a good year with at least 1 semi-finalist!

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: cska Date: 21-09-2006, 11:57 Edited by: cska at: 21-09-2006, 12:00	I hope that UEFA will soon introduce the change that some countries will have 5 teams. So, it is more gradual and stable if a country can have 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7 teams in CL/UC. In this way, it will be harder for countries with fewer teams to go up suddenly and also for countries with 6 teams to drop like stones. Also, the difference between neighboring places in ranking will not be so dramatical.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Auke Date: 21-09-2006, 13:05	shrike I mean that holland and portugal never scored 50 points (which is also caused by the fact that the amount of points you can earn has changed during the years) I know they have been 5th and higher. you are right the way I wrote it is a little confusing...

Author: moro
Date: 21-09-2006, 13:15

Country coefficient is a matter of "teams work", so 2 cups and 2 semifinals doesn't matter here. Otherwise UEFA would put more bonus points for something like that.
And yes, I saw portugal and dutch teams under 3-th place (why did I say 5 or 6???), it's same thing as Romania under 5-th place. Between 18-th romanian place and 15-th dutch is one class difference, in our favour. It is true.
Romania will pass Portugal for the next five years at least, it's a fact. We'll talk more in 2010. Until then, let's see Nacional vs Rapid, if you loose, you should take some pills, if you win without refferee help, I'll shut up five years.
By the way, all this talking in the wind about championship is stupid, I admit. How come you don't clame Portugal ch-ship is better than german one, now that u have same coefficient???

Author: ice_ball
Date: 21-09-2006, 13:47

Too bad for you guyz that 18th and 15th teams don't represent their countries. Haha. Anyway if Romania can grow 2 more compettitive teams next year it shouldn't be a peoblem to keep 6-9 spot in the next 10 years. Next year we will have 4 strong teams. Steaua, Dinamo in CL and Rapid, CFR Cluj in UC. The only problem will be in 2008 when we will have 6 teams. But for now Romania is on the right track.

Author: Auke
Date: 21-09-2006, 13:51

You are right that cups and finals etc don't count in the ranking. But they can give an impression how strong the teams from a country are. You must admit that over the past 4 years romanian teams were not that good...Only last year they were very good. I sense that you see all this talking as an attack on Romanian football, but thats really not the intention. I'm really interested in how Romania is developing and if they are going to be the nr 1 thats perfectly fine for me. Still, at this point there is no reason for me to believe that the romanian league is stronger than the portugese and the dutch.

Author: ice_ball
Date: 21-09-2006, 13:58
Edited by: ice_ball
at: 21-09-2006, 14:04

My prediction for the end of the year

1 Spain 15.500 14.312 12.437 15.642 13.000 70.891
2 Italy 15.928 8.875 14.000 15.357 11.071 65.231
3 England 10.666 11.250 15.571 14.428 11.625 63.540
4 France 7.916 13.500 11.428 10.812 12.875 56.531
5 Germany 9.142 4.714 10.571 10.437 10.785 45.649
6 Portugal 10.750 10.250 8.166 5.500 8.750 43.416
7 Romania 2.166 4.333 5.500 16.833 12.333 41.165
8 Russia 3.625 5.875 10.000 10.000 10.875 40.375
9 Netherlands 6.166 5.416 12.000 7.583 8.785 39.950
10 Ukraine 4.250 4.875 8.100 5.750 8.750 31.725

Author: Ricardo
Date: 21-09-2006, 15:12

I have to remark that if you compare Romanian teams to Dutch teams, I would say: look at the teamranking. They have about the same country-coefficient, so that influence is almost nothing.
Holland has teams on (current 06/07-standing):
15,23,34,64,70,108 and 119
Romania has 27,61,85,135

And another remark: after 5 years they have the same coefficient. Romanian played all the time with 3 teams, Holland with 6 teams. That means that the 3 good Dutch teams compensated for the 3 bad teams.

But this is all about the past. If you look at the current 'best team'... who will that be..
And I wonder if next year you will have your best 4 teams qualified for Europe. There is always the cuploser(or winner) that can mix it up, or some unexpected good performing team. It happens in Holland, so if Romanian competition is better, it will certainly happen there.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: shrike Date: 21-09-2006, 15:19	Or just an unlucky draw (even when you are seeded) and you can lose a team without scoring any points.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 21-09-2006, 15:23 Edited by: dinamo_fan_4_ever at: 21-09-2006, 15:25	@ moro maybe 15 romanian vs 15 dutch, 18 vs 15 is not relevant ; look at twente which was like 7 or so and look what they did as for nacional - rapid, i will take that bet even if i am not a rapid fan as for portugal vs romania, what we are behind this year is less than what u will be behind next one

Author: moro
Date: 21-09-2006, 15:46

I just don' appreciate when people keep crying out day, after day, after day "u'r lucky, u have only 3 teams, u'll see when u'll have 6". Yes, we'll see. Benfica, Sporting, PSV are very good teams, they will win 66 of 100 games against our top 3 teams. And still, look at our teams pulverising germans teams last year!!! I wont come again with the budget history... but hey, guys, Romania is doing very well, dont be jalous! The 4-th team CFR plays well big matches, they can do well in UC. Maybe next year another team will play better and I think we'll be able to maintain three teams in CLGS and 2 of 3 in UCGS.
On the other way, it's true that Romanian ch-ship is boring, refferees incredibly bads, but I swear I don't find the dutch one, or Nacional vs Belenenses more attractive...
We've eat mountains of s..t so many years, now that we've found the chocolate cake you keep saying it's not ours, it's a stolen one.
Be nice!

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: moro Date: 21-09-2006, 15:49	@ dinamo fan forever You find Steaua against Dinamo irrelevant. Then 15 from Romania against 15 from Holland irrelevant. What is relevant beside when favourite team wins? Steaua is extenuated, I've just read that they are crying at the association to postpone next ch-ship game... Even that wont save them from a clear beat 0-2 against Lyon (you can bet on 0-0 first half).

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: antonio62tr Date: 21-09-2006, 16:39	If you want to compare check theese what will happen if theese countries have 3 teams in cmpetition... --------------2003--2004--2005--2006---2007---total Germany-----13,30-8,30--14,00-16,00--2,78---54,38 Portugal-----13,80-12,60-15,30-9,30---2,70---53,70 Netherlands-9,70--9,16--18,30-12,10--1,78---51,04 Romania-----2,10--4,30--5,50--16,80--6,33---35,03

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 21-09-2006, 17:06
Edited by: dinamo_fan_4_ever
at: 21-09-2006, 17:06

@ moro
its irellevant for the prospect of the european matches , 2 teams in same schampionship know each other very well but 2 teams in UCL donr especially steaua which ist regulary there
as for the fatigue, key players can be held on the match with bistrita which is not a super class team, steaua can start: cernea - baciu panait saban/stancu g.coman - ochirosii lovin bostina ov.petre - oprita badea

Author: STK
Date: 21-09-2006, 17:58

@Auke

Both euro cups were won by Porto (great team they had), for Portugal. What relevance have this about Portugal fotbalistic force. Because Porto represent Portugal? This is just apparent, it surley do not say nothing about all portughese league force. More than that i also say that the performances of both Portugal and Holland are not something exceptional if you count 2 important advantages they had: a constant position in top 8 (which bring unfair advantages like guarantated games and direct access) and a good economical status for these clubs.

Again to compare Steaua (ex.) with teams placed 4,5,6 in these 2 championships, could be only the effect of too much weed. I can say also, in the same category (crap), that the first 1,2,3 teams from Portugal and Holland could hardly not relegate if were to play in first romanian league. The point is that one cannot do such ridiculous afirmation, without no logical basis. The reality is more harsh with this kind of individuals. You profit from the fact that UEFA close the gate of euro cups before us, and when weak team from Holland and Portugal, eat the cheese that great team like Ajax and Porto give them, our best teams that also shoud have to bring points for the rest, was forced to neutralize in qualification rounds. And with few years of this prohibition, we end up with much lower coeffcient than the value of romanian league and with very few team. Now is just the boomerang effect, and a lot of people are very rude with their remarks regarding romanian championship value, and the only logical explanation that i can find is that they feel threaten.

About Portugal, i saw especially users from this country so disperate to keep 6th position. Why is that? Because of the 3 guarantated teams? Because will be a pain for them to see their teams neutralised in qualification?

I said many times that the direct access is wrong. So i don't think that any top can be made between countries/teams that have dirrect access and countries/teams that do not have, same how you can consider fair a athletic marathon of 40 km, where some runers starts the race at 10km. This are the euro cups. The first quarter of competions must be run by all teams. If not, i have to consider any quarte-final for a team that came from qualification, like a trophy won.

The people who know very well that all their fame was artificially created by UEFA and the seeding system, and speak about other teams/legues value, who have to start bellow and raise aganst the wind, are the worst species.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 21-09-2006, 22:08	back to dinamo - steaua, i know its off topic bit it was mentioned once or twice u can see here: http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=56648&shift=1 the contact between thereau and moti, maybe not a red card but surely not a gentle touch...

Author: gluer
Date: 22-09-2006, 05:05

@moro

You make me laugh... Steaua-Lyon 0-2 ??

Even in the biggest nightmare I can't see Lyon achieve more than a draw.

Don't forget, Steaua will play finally on their own stadium Ghencea, after 8 months. I think this is important because great teams can make here only 0-0 (examples for past: with Juventus and Bayern 0-0; examples more recently: with Villareal 0-0). The pressure of the crowd is very strong here because they are very close to pitch.
So, Lyon can't win here. Maybe only a draw. But I'm an optimist and I bet Steaua-Lyon at least 1-0.

The match with Dinamo Buc was no irrelevant because Dinamo had just one opportunity, in the last minute in extra time. Steaua is very good in defense. Steaua played last 2 matches (with Rapid and Dinamo) in 10 players from minute 30-35.

And don't forget that Steaua have 2 most important players injured (the captain Radoi and the goalscorer of last season Iacob). Now another 2 key players are injured: Cristocea and Paraschiv (the actual captain). Cristocea can be subsituted succesfully with Bostina, but Paraschiv is very hard to substitute, because he is the key player that destroys the attacks of opponents.

On the other hand, Steaua will not be tired because Saturday will play with the reserves and the main players will rest.

So, bet Steaua, at least a draw...
My predictions
---------------
Pessimistic view: 0-0 or 1-1
Realistic view: 1-0 or 2-1
Optimistc view: 2-0, 3-0 or 3-1

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Lupta_Steaua Date: 22-09-2006, 06:15	@ Gluer, I like your predictions, but let's not be in a rush on this one. Chances are that your pesimistic prediction is still over rated. I am just waiting to see how Steaua will play against them. The stadium is still a stadium, and on the field you still have 11 players (hopefully ) So great game ahead. Great hopes as well.

Author: athos
Date: 22-09-2006, 11:18

Guys, I don't want to defend romanian soccer, but why are you SO sure, that for eg. dutch, german or portugal football are better than romanian these days? Ok, this might be true, BUT not that obvious. Just look at the results in the last two seasons (not including the current one):

Last season:
Steaua: - eliminated Heerenveen (also dutch, hmmhmm)
- beat Lens by 4-0!
- drew away with Sampdoria (italian)
- drew away with Hertha (german)
- eliminated Betis (spanish)
Rapid: - eliminated Feyenoord (dutch team and on "top")
- eliminated Hertha Berlin with double win (german, not Bayern, but top team)
- beat Rennes (ok, not Lyon, but french)
- eliminated Hamburg (german top team)
- Dinamo: - eliminated Everton (ok, not MU, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool, but english)

Of course this season also includes Steaua eliminated by Middlesbrough (english), a narrow Rapid defeat in Stuttgart and a narrow Dinamo defeat at Marseille (but remember that equaliser goal?) and a Dinamo draw at home against Heerenveen (dutch).

{continues>

Author: athos
Date: 22-09-2006, 11:32

continuing...

Season 2004/05:
- Steaua eliminated Valencia (top spanish team)
- Ok, Steaua was also eliminated by Villarreal and was defeated (but away) by Parma and Athletic Bilbao.

So, these results tell me that (at least in the last two years)romanian top teams are equal opponents to a lot of "top league" teams:
- ALL dutch teams (sorry)!
- all french teams except Lyon
- all german teams except Bayern.
- I don't know anything about portuguese teams (long time they didn't meet romanian opponents except current dispute Rapid - Nacional in which Rapid has a win so far)

So why is it SO obvious that romanian football is not equal to dutch or portuguese?

Author: Crash1o6
Date: 22-09-2006, 12:19

Romania from this moment will lose positions fast and no chance for 6'th. After Dinamo Bucuresti - Steaua game. Steaua club officials anounced that they will retreat the first team form romanian championship after dinamo officials buyed the referees at the match and the police killed a steaua suporter and shot other suporters. So in this case Romania will lose the principal reason that Romania did this big points in last seasons. So bye bye coefficient starting this year.. bye bye steaua in european cups.. This is last year for steaua in euro cups.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 22-09-2006, 14:03

@athos
eliminating Heerenveen(who won from Steaua in Bucharest!) and Feyenoord does not mean being better than Ajax and PSV. It's like saying Auxerre(nr 7 in French competition!!) eliminated Farul, so all French teams are better than all Romanian.
Romania has currently 2(-3?) teams that are very good and belong, I think, in the same European sub-top group as PSV and Ajax, together with 20 more. Depending on day and form(of the week) all can win matches.

Author: Overgame
Date: 22-09-2006, 14:29

A fact is funny : we see the resulsts of 1, perhaps 2 seasons.
Last season, Sevilla won the UEFA cup : Sevilla is stronger than everybody !

And talking about 'romanian football' versus 'dutch football' is stupid. What do you want to compare ? Top 3 teams ? Top 5 ? Top 10 ? 1st division ? And how do you want to compare tham ? Let's compare Belgian football and Dutch football. Anderlecht and Brugge often wins versus dutch. I should read Belgian football>>>>>>>>>dutch football ?

Author: badgerboy
Date: 22-09-2006, 14:42

Lupta_Steaua

I'm not really complaining about the fact that a "3 team" country can potentially earn more points than a six or seven team one. The comparison of Romania's coefficient with Spain & Italy's I really just put in as an "interesting fact".

I was mostly highlighting the change in "maximum coefficient" over the years. As the total points available are constantly rising (at least when the rise is due to more matches for each team rather than simply the addition of more teams) it's obvious that the "average coefficient" must also rise to take account of this - so when comparing a "coefficient achievement" now it's necessary to take these changes into account.

Looking at the figures as they may affect future rankings I think I've concluded that - as good as Steaua's achievement last year was it's possible it's long term affects have been over-estimated - by me as much as by anybody else.

Last year was only the second year of the UEFA Cup group stage so it may be a bit too early to form firm judgments about how this will affect future coefficients. But the group stage has increased the available points by 32 (a coefficient of +8.000 if you assume all the additional points go to "4 team countries" - which obviously they wont). Just as significantly the available points are being shared by fewer teams - 16 teams less in R1 & 8 less in R2/GS. That means 48 more points (or 12.000 coefficient points) to be shared amongst the lucky competitors. Add in the fact that the CL points have been adjusted so that teams eliminated at the Group Stage also get 32 points (8.000 coefficient points) they never got before and it's easy to conclude that the average coefficient of mid-ranking countries is likely to go up significantly. Therefore it may be the case that it's less difficult than you might expect for those countries to overhaul Romania should the performance of it's own teams fall off in the next few years.

I was going to answer a few other points on the thread but this is already a long post so I wont for now!

Author: moro
Date: 22-09-2006, 14:45

@ gluer

Man, I live in France. I was "dinamo" fan in high school, but from 1992 I'm adult and dont give a damn on the colour of the shirt, I have same palpitations for Steaua, D, or R, or CFR. I tell you one thing, Lyon is, after Bar�a, best team in Europe from two years now. They are 100% proffessionals, looking to improve their playing game after game after game. The trainer is excellent. They are very intelligent players (I'm not saying our players aren't, but I feel big difference there). I hope from the bottom of my heart it will be 10-0 or 1-0 for Steaua, but this is not possible. I know this team (Lyon) very well, I see every game in ch-ship. Play 0-2, you will have about 9:1, you will be rich, like I will.
Somebody here says Steaua will withdraw team from ch-ship, this is a crap that their stupid boss said because he lost the game. In fact the refferee was OK, he eliminated one Steaua player after assistant signal and I don't know why peoples in Romania find the decision unfair since Thereau boxed the Dinamo defender. It was not in the figure, but in stomach, still I don't see the difference. In the other game against Rapid at 0-1 there shoul've been a 2-nd Steaua player eliminated, then a clear hand-penalty not given for Rapid... the Steaua boss said nothing... Now the thief cries "thief!!!". Stup, stup, stupid.
He wont withdraw the team, but he will arrange some games, like every year, like every team. That's how things works if you, guys, did'nt know.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 22-09-2006, 15:20

Some interesting stuff in English on the Steaua-Dinamo game.

Women were banned from buying tickets for the game for a while due to suspicions they were girlfriends & wives of Steaua fans being sent to buy extra tickets.

The main trouble started when three Dinamo fans posed as officials in order to infiltrate the Steaua crowd and steal a banner .

Mircea Sandu wants the maximum possible penalty for any club found responsible for the trouble - sorry this link isn't working right now.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: spartaan Date: 22-09-2006, 17:44	Romania - Holland 0-2 Holland - Romania 2-0 Qualification Wc 2006 So the dutch football is better then Romanian football?

Author: STK
Date: 22-09-2006, 20:55
Edited by: STK
at: 22-09-2006, 21:03

Maby it is. But i can't buy this arguments with national team related. There are 2 different things, i sorry to miss your logic, what have to do one with other?

There is no more interest here in Romania for national teams. And the selection is not made after solid principle. It is a difference between a national team which is REPRESENTATIVE for the football fans from a country and a simple players selection team, that recive the title of "Romania", because this is the way to be. We will sent a 3rd level division team to represent us like "Romania", for you to beat with 10-0.

@Overgame, good point. I didn't think that was possible, but again Congratulation!

It is indeed childish to say that x country first 4-5 team are better than y country n teams. You just say that to feel better or to flame someone. You have no proof for that, it is something meaningless.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 22-09-2006, 21:04	irelevant, north ireland 3-2 spain, portugal 1-1 liechtenstein and lets wait for the next romania - holland shall we...

Author: STK
Date: 22-09-2006, 21:21

@badgerboy, all 3 sources are correct.

To this match, were incredible abuses by the security forces, which bring people in hospitals and shout on the streets, unprovocated and unnecesary violence, which is present in various video materials, and will be followed by a huge anti-violence demonstration, were are welcome to come football fans from all country.

I have an observation about mister Mircea Sandu, he is a major assole. That press conference that is quoted by source, is just a part of a declaration war between him and Steaua's officials who accused him of the mediocre way in which he lead and influence romanian football. (Did i tell u that he have 16 years as president to romanian FA? And look what image have roomanian football outside, only because of his incompetence)

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 22-09-2006, 21:25

STK I respect your opion:
"More than that i also say that the performances of both Portugal and Holland are not something exceptional if you count 2 important advantages they had: a constant position in top 8 (which bring unfair advantages like guarantated games and direct access) and a good economical status for these clubs."

But it keeps me wondering when will you change that opinion. Maybe after one year with 4 teams and less qualifying rounds. Or perhaps it takes two years with (lets say) Romania at rank 6 and almost all teams directly qualified (only Rom-3rd in CL-QR3).

In the latter case not only the points are divided by 6 instead of 3, but starting after the qualifying rounds with a coeffcient of about 1.5 instead of about 3.0.

We'll see. Nah, maybe it takes 3 years.

Author: edieseb
Date: 22-09-2006, 21:37

I found badgerboy's view on performance based on results vs possible achievable coefficient very interesting. His post on 20-09-2006, 18:15 actually.
Still, I didn't quite understand why you chose rather to exclude the QR than to include them. How would you assess Ukraine's performance, for example, with just part of the teams still in competiton after the QR: would you consider just the results and the maximum achievable coefficient of just these teams or including the teams that didn't even take part in the competition (if you exclude the QR, then Dinamo Kiev didn't participate).
Still, if you include the QR I think it's pretty interesting. By the way, what was France's, Germany's, Portugal's, Netherland's and Russia's percentage of performance/potential?

Author: STK
Date: 22-09-2006, 21:38

Bert, just one year of seedingless or no dirrect entrants i think it will be fully enough for me to respect that year country/team clasification, unconditionate.

With eventual seeding advantages, Romania will ocuppie in the future a unfair position, by the rest of countries which not have these advantages, it's true. The little coeff that can be made in qualification rounds it's not worth the risk of elimination.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: moro Date: 22-09-2006, 22:27	Now usually I'm somebody equilibrate and dont listen all the crap irculating, but I've just heard something almost incredible and yet still possible. So if somehow you guys have knowledge of lot-lot-lot of money bet in England on Steaua's win half time - full time in Kiev, this is maybe what Steaua's and Kiev's boss have predicted.

Author: edieseb
Date: 22-09-2006, 22:39

@badgerboy

I don't know how you got those numbers with maximum achievable coefficient. I tried to see the max points that can be earned by every team in those countries and I have:
Spain and Italy with 4 teams in CL (excluding QR like you wanted) would have 2 teams in the final and the other 2 in the SF: a total of 108 points (30 + 28 + 25 + 25). In the UC, 2 teams in the final and 1 in the SF: total 92 points (33 + 31 + 28). So total achievable points by the 2 countries would be 200 or a coeff of 28.571. Spain (again, considering only the results starting with the GS of CL or R1 of UC) had 94 points (47 percent) and Italy had 92 points earned (46 percent).
Romania, with the 3 teams in UC, 2 in the final and 1 in the SF, a maximum of 92 points. They gathered 44, so 47,83 percent.
I might have made mistakes somewhere, but that's the number I have.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: edieseb Date: 22-09-2006, 22:45	@moro It depends what a lot means because what's a lot for me and probably for you too, might be close to nothing to the owners of the 2 clubs (one billionaire, the other pretty close too).

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: moro Date: 22-09-2006, 23:40	@ edieseb You're right, I should think twice before saying something like that, it's impossible to win millions without suspicions. It's something I've just heard, but certainly not real.

Author: Overgame
Date: 23-09-2006, 09:41

"The little coeff that can be made in qualification rounds it's not worth the risk of elimination."

9 wins 2 draws 1 defeat, 10 points. 10/3=3.333 points for 2006/2007.
5 wins 3 draws 2 defeats, 6.5 points. 6.5/3=2.166 points for 2005/2006.
5 wins 1 draw 4 defeats, 5.5 points. 5.5/3=1.5 points for 2004/2005. 1 team lost : Otelul Galati vs Partizan Belgrade.
1 win 4 draw 1 defeat, 3 points. 3/3=1 point for season 2003/2004. 1 team lost : Rapid Bucuresti vs Anderlecht.
3 wins 1 draw 1 defeat, 3.5 points. 3.5/3=1.166 points for 2002/2003. 1 team lost : Dinamo Bucuresti vs Club Brugge.
8 wins 1 draw 1 defeat, 8.5 points. 8.5/4=2.125 for 2001/2002.

Total for the country ranking of 2006 : 2.125+1.166+1+1.5+2.166+3.333=10.290. Almost 1/3 of the coef !

Let's check season by season.

2005/2006 : 3.333 points during qRounds, 16.333 points in total : +/- 20%
2004/2005 : 2.166 points during qRounds, 5.5 points in total : +/- 40%
2003/2004 : 1.5 points during qRounds, 4.333 points in total : +/- 35%
2002/2003 : 1 point during qRounds, 2.166 points in total : +/- 45%
2001/2002 : 2.125 points during qRounds, 2.625 points in total : +/- 80%

I'm sorry, but i don't see the qRounds as 'not worth'. 3 times Romania lost a team during qRounds, and the 3 times the coefficent from qRounds are over 33% !

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: executor Date: 23-09-2006, 10:05	@ STK What exactly is the difference between being eliminated in UC QR2 and being eliminated in UC R1? 'cause you make it sound like there's something extremely important. And yes, even I don't think the points in QR are insignificant.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: tolga78 Date: 23-09-2006, 11:58	I have one question: If one country finishes for instance 9th position after this years tournament (2006/2007)in their total ranking. Will they have teams for the comming season (2007/2008) based on that. Lets say that Ukraine finishes 9th after this season. Will they have 3 teams for CL season 2007/2008?

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 23-09-2006, 12:17
Edited by: dinamo_fan_4_ever
at: 23-09-2006, 12:24

@overgame

you are right, but 4-5 years ago romania played mostly qualifiung rounds , all teams were unseeded (maybe except steaua) so when the non qualifing rounds came we lost. now its the opposite, 3 teams are seeded :steaua rapid dinamo and any other seeded in QR2 of both competitions having that 33% of the total coeff, the qualifing rounds start early when the teams still doesnt play its best, there are new players, there was a break between seasons so the value between teams gets smaller so there are bigger chances for rapid ( for example) to get beaten by sarajevo in august than in october, november ...
on the other way 1 or 2 can be seeded in the UCL group stage so they get 3 bonus pts that count not only for the country coef but for that teams coeff so 3/4 its 0.750 for the country and 3.000 for the team,not mentioning that 3 pts are same as wining 3 matches in the qualifing rounds without geting something for the team coeff. the other team in UCL plyes the QR3 and is seeded(ex this year >29000), if looses its no harm because of the UC R1 where its also seeded so in this case country coeff: 0.750 -> 1.000
if the team wins it bets another 3 bonus pts and another 0,750 for the country so country coeff: 1.750 -> 2.000

conclusions:
its less than gaining pts in qualif rounds by 1-2 pts
no risk of loosing team early
more maches played in the nacional league until the FIRST european game
the finnancial factor
points earned for the teams coeff also
at least 14 matches to be played in europe

p.s.
everything above is considered place 10 romania last year with 4 teams
in europe and no extra IT team. places 5-8 -> 6 teams are out of question because its more a question of pride than of coeff for any country that gets there

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 23-09-2006, 12:23	@tolga78 i dont see ukraine on 9 but on 10-11 batteling with belgium ... (just a personal view) 9th place- 4 teams: champ -UCL GST, vice UCL qr3 10th place- 4 teams: champ - UCL GST or UCL qr3, vice UCLqr3 or UCLqr2 11th place - 4 teams : champ UCL qr3 , vice UCL qr2

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Overgame Date: 23-09-2006, 12:56	@dinamo_fan_4_ever Yes, a direct qualification is better (money, etc) than playing qRounds for a lot of reason, but qRounds are a good way to win points. For CL, the difference between of coefficient between a win and a loss in qR3 is hard to say. Anderlecht is a good example. And if your team is out during qRounds of UC, how do you expect to see them winning matches in R1 ?

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 23-09-2006, 13:57

@ overgeme

again u are true, its mostly theoretical but i think a team can progress, buy players and play more till the R1, of course if a team cant win a q round thay cant win in R1 but... example here : if u play in august vs loco sofia u can loose still being a strong team but if uy play in september vs victoria setubal in R1 u can go through, and that month in which u play 5-6 games in the own chamionship may be of more help that the friendly matches u play in June-July and u can take some players until the deadline.

from my point of view the q rounds can conpensate a future failure and it can be a second chance for teams coming from IT or for good teams a chance of playing some official games beforre the strong matches in the R1 or UCL.

all results in qualifing rounds can be equalised with a win and a draw in R1 or with that 3 bonus pts in the UCL

Author: aetius
Date: 23-09-2006, 14:14

romania deserve this position .why?
almost all points is in uefa cup.
so from next years 4 or 5 romnania play 2 or 3 teams in CL group stage, this fact guarantee maximum 9points/6 =1,5 coef points no more.... why?
i presume rapid, dinamo and steaua is in group stage. how many points can get? very few , maybe 12 points , and 1 qualification in uefa cup in r 1/32.=>coef =2points
in uefa cup in r1 all 3 romanian teams is unseeded, if 1or 2 teams pass in the group stage no one is in R1/32. so maximum points:12 points=>2points
maybe the last team , can reach the quarters in uefa cup with another maxim 6points =>1 coef points
so for romania, with 6 teams at the start of season, can earna coef arround 6,5 -7 points nothing more . maybe less...
from this point of view romania can keep maximum 2 years 6th place.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 23-09-2006, 16:45

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The really important thing for Romania's coefficient in the future (as I think aetius is saying) will be how their "top" teams compete in the CL not so much how the other teams do in the UEFA Cup.

If the top teams do well they can easily "carry" a few UEFA R1 losers. But what usually happens is that a countries "top" teams aren't able to compete consistently at CL level. The issue of the clubs best players being in the "shop window" is potentially a big factor in this. They will probably also find that - after the CL experience - the UEFA Cup becomes a much lower priority. Getting into the next CL will become the "thing".

Edieseb. On my calculations. The first thing is you misunderstood my post. When doing the specific calculations for last year I DID include qualifying rounds. The second thing is that you forgot the three bonus points for being in the CL group stage.

Excluding Intertoto teams for a seven team country the maximum possible is normally: 33 (CL winner)+ 31 (CL beaten finalist) + 26 (CL semi-finalist) + 26 (second CL semi-finalist) + 33 (UEFA Cup winner) + 31 (UEFA Cup beaten finalist) + 26 (UEFA Cup semi-finalist)+ 4 (CLQR3). 210/7 = 30.000.

For a six team country you could have three in each competition (in which case you simply deduct one CL semi-finalist) or two and four (in which case you deduct both CL semi-finalists & add one into the UEFA Cup). The result for both is the same. You also have to deduct two qualifying round points. You end up with 182/6 = 30.333.

For three & four team countries there's more of a variation depending on which qualifying round the teams start in.

When making specific calculations I've based the maximum on actual rounds played. I also base it on the competition a countries teams end up in AFTER the qualifying rounds. So Steaua's four possible qualifying round points are counted for the maximum but the "maximum possible" is then based on three UEFA Cup teams rather than two UEFA Cup teams and one CL team. On the other hand I don't take into account the teams transferring after the group stage. Their "maximum" assumes they remain a CL team.

Author: edieseb
Date: 23-09-2006, 20:12

It makes sense now. It's the fact that in your initial post you said that you were "excluding the QR" that put pe off-track. Also, I see that I was giving too many points to the potential semifinalist.
The 3 points bonus for the CL GS is a bit tricky: it's well deserved by teams like Betis who qualified, but not so much important in the case of the directly qualified teams because it's not based on the team's performance that year but in the previous years whereas all Romania's points are literally earned last year. It doesn't make a big difference, but it's a matter of how you wanna see things.

Author: panda
Date: 24-09-2006, 18:21
Edited by: panda
at: 24-09-2006, 18:33

@tolga78

By the way, the allocations for eurocups palces for each country are one year 'behind' - you can get the info off the main pages of the site -

bert says:
"To determine the participants in the Champions League and the UEFA Cup the last year ranking is used, because each country should know at the start of the season how many places it disposes."

Sorry- I now see this is answered more fully for you on another thread!

Author: doctor
Date: 25-09-2006, 22:37

i think that our country can make it in 6 th place and they will have only 1 objective for 4 years (keep this position). With the coeficient of this year (over 15) and with 16.8 from last year this mission is a very easy one. That means 4-5 years with 3 CL presense.

So that`s what is a strong factor to give me resons to think of a final in CL played by a Romanian team.

Please don`t compare anymore greece ,turkey or other country with ROmania(coeficient speaking). None of ths country didn`t score 30 points in 2 years.This what garanties Romania 6th place.

Don`t expect a drop until 2011.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Overgame Date: 26-09-2006, 06:17	At the moment, you scored 6.333 points. That's not +15. Everything can go fast in football.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 26-09-2006, 08:56

It looks to me that more points can be gathered in UefaCup now with the groupstages. Look Switzerland last year also with a 9.375. They have with Basel, Grasshoppers, Zurich(unfortunately already out this year) and surprise Sion 4 good teams that could do well in the next year(s)and can get another 10 or so and come closer to Romania(if they get only 5). Other countries can do the same, maybe next year Fener, Gala, Kayseri, Besil, Trabzon will be better as this year and get a fantastic 15. Maybe already this year. Don't be overconfident, though it is a very strong base.
I think it's easier for a country to get more points in a year as before adn therefor the changes in the top-10/top-15 will be larger. Therefor it is also more difficult to understand why there is such a large gap between earning the points and playing with the teams earned by this(in 06/07 we play with points earned in 00/05)

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: doctor Date: 26-09-2006, 09:14	@overgame ,after this week will be 8 (the coeficient). so to score 30 in 2 years we need anothe 6(9 victories). A realistic objective. Don`t forget 30 points in 2 years try to do that.

Author: doctor
Date: 26-09-2006, 09:53

@overgame and bert

Q rounds doesn`t mean points!!!!! This is the ideea and i totaly agree with STK.
I will give u the strongest reason that exists.

Overgame worte that we have 40 % points in a year from q rounds

)))))) did u see how much points there then? yes 2 total points. Portugal scored 2 only with direct access. SO that means a advatage of 100%.This was only a paranteze.

If q rounds are such good for a country please explain how countrys with direct access score the largeswt coeficints all the time. AND I MEAN ALL THE TIME. Romania was a single case year when q rounds was helping a country. A case in a milion so u have a 0.00001%chanse that q rounds help your country.

Portugal in their worst season scored 5 points . A country without direct access and with only 4 teams if they do good they score 5-6 points.

I asureu that Romania with direct access will score more then 5.5 points like in 2004 without diect access.

Don`t put in front last year,because we all know that last year was a single case in history and we will remani there for a lot of time.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Overgame Date: 26-09-2006, 10:13	doctor : that simple : the countries who are playing a lot of qrounds are usualy out after qR1. And the last 6 seasons from Romania is the proof. We're not talking about 1 time. And the bonus is for EVERYONE. Romania got 3 point for reaching GS.

Author: doctor
Date: 26-09-2006, 10:29

you speak about q rounds in UEFA CUP? But country fromm the top benefit for the advantage in CL.

YEs i agree with u 3 teams can not q from r1 (3 out of 3) rarely this happens anyway.A dizavantage for top 10 and a advantage for last caoutrys.Now let`s speak about CL.

@ 2 teams with direct access ant 3 th team seeded(another advantage) that means (case of portugal) 9/6 1.5 points direct with 2 matches formaly played...There u can play 6 games (not 4 like in UC) R1 in UC counts like group matches antoher advantage for top 10,because they can lose 2 matches and then win 4.

Now in CL u have 3 points say u win 2 matches ,u have a coeficient of 7 almost minimum speaking and go in UC where u can score another points.

This are advatages of top 10 and there are to many.

Now let`s take turkey.They have 1 team IN CL. The other team could lose in qR1 so it`s a dizavatage like u said. so htey will have 1 team in group and the rest of 3 like portugal. in UC R1

So that means 3 teams in CL VS 1 team in CL. I asure u that Portugal will score more.

SO DIRECT ACCESS ,WE ARE SPEAKING HERE ABOUT DIRECT ACCESS IS A ADVATAGE IN FRONT ON Q ROUNDS,COEFICIENT SPEAKING AND MONEY .........................milions

Author: doctor
Date: 26-09-2006, 10:37

in turkey situations are 5 country. I think that only 1 of tham could score more hten Portugal or Germany that means 20% against 80% and it`s a optimistic view not a realistic one.

Now there are another 10 coutrys who plays a lot of q rounds ,place 16-25 Romania was there. I think 1 country from them in 5 years can score more then Portugal or Germany that means 2% against 98%.

It`s clearly an advantage for top countrys. I don`t see where u see a problem>?

Author: doctor
Date: 26-09-2006, 10:49

I want my country to benefit of the dizavantages being o 6th.
In my opinion places 7-8 are there to stop other countrys to make it in top 6 .They must play no q rounds they don`t have direct acces (only 1) and they will have 5 teams in q R1.This is the bigest dizavatages in all places.But if u can jump over place 7 8 i think that u can stay in top 6 for many years to come.

Romania had a great oportunity they have 3 good teams out of 3. that can make it in groups score there 15 points in this year, And have 30 points. This points will protect their coeficient for 4 years and in this time they have only one solution to stand there because if they will go on 7th that can be a dizaster.

Portugal protects perfect thier positon no itetoto that means 1 team will not play UC R1. only 6 teams all it`s perfect. Only on e problem Romania they scored points like no other countrys they are fenomenal.Portugal are protegted by 20 points in 2 years. Romania will be protected by 30 points. that means another perfect year for Portugal.

In my opinion Portgaul will not exit top 6 if Romania doesn`t exist. They have formated the gap betwen 6 th and 7th. Russia probably on 7th benith them.SO Rusia will have to play a year i position 7 8,2 dizatruos position.

If Romania could make it this year we will see great improvement in Romania. In other cases we will see oly a improvement. That`s why i want my coutry direct in position 6th and jump over 7 th and 8 th.

Next year. with the benefit of a coeficient of 2 in 2002 we are protected. ANd the year after next we must play with 6 teams (3 in CL)

Author: Ricardo
Date: 26-09-2006, 11:31

doctor,
6th place is not there to keep. I said it before in this thread or in another about this subject:
In 1996 Netherlands entered the top-6, playing with 4 teams (and having for the second time in a row!! a CL-finalist (lost this time)
In 2001 Greece entered top-8, playing with 4 teams. In 2002, still playing with 4 teams they pushed Netherlands out of the top-6. In 2005 Greece was beneath Netherlands again.
In 2003 Portugal entered top-8, playing with 4 teams. In 2004 they Pushed Greece from their 6th spot, playing still with 4 teams. Current standing for 2008 shows Portugal beneath Netherlands again - now is the time for them to show that Portugal should be above or under Netherelands in the long term...
In 2007 Romania will push Portugal from their 6th spot, playing with 3 teams. In 2008 they still will play only with 4 teams so keep on enlarging the gap to the 7th spot. After that we will have to see if they can manage to stay there.

I do not want to say by this that Netherlands is the one that belongs on the 6th spot, though they are the only one that, besides the top-5, stayed in the top-8 for the last 10 years.
I want to tell by this that the 6th spot is a spot that comes and goes. A team reaches it by having 4 teams, then stays there for 2 or 3 years and then drops down again. Romania were 'lucky' that they just stayed out of top-8 last year and therefor has another year with 4 teams to build on their coefficient, but other countries will follow after that and will try to take the spot in 2010 or 2011.
It is difficult to defend. A 3rd team in CL sounds great, but if it just collects the 3 bonuspoints, it's not really contributing, while it is the 3rd best team in the country!

Author: doctor
Date: 26-09-2006, 17:34

@ricardo better to colect 3 points bonus and 1 win or 2 +1 ein and 1 draw in q rounds that means 8.5 points,then be disqualified in R1.

I told u before don`t compare Grece Portugal or Netherland with ROmania i will tell u once more :P.Romania will be protected by 30 points in 2 years.That means 3 pefect year for Nethrland and Portugal to be under Romania because in 3th year Romania will have a coeficient about 5 minimum. IT`s not imposbile but a miracle must happen for Romania to go under.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: moro Date: 26-09-2006, 22:53	@ gluer, stk and dinamo_fan_4_ever I'm afraid I'm gonna ask you to call me "Master" from now on. I'm sorry about this little error (Steaua 0-2 instead 0-3, I forgot Carlos). Maybe this game was, finally, relevant?

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: doctor Date: 26-09-2006, 22:54	i liked very much the game this night...but i think the score is a bit exagerated. Lyon plays in fair play ,and they are my second choise team after the romanians teams. Portugesse teams lost so our Uefa teams must do their best.We have a oportunity this week.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: doctor Date: 26-09-2006, 22:57	Please don`t speak about the game if u didn`t watch it. This team is perfect. Please give a prediction in Steaua-Real

Author: moro
Date: 26-09-2006, 23:18

Doc, I saw the game on internet, poor quality of web-transmission, it was just like I've imagined excepting Carlos.
This is really Lyon, doesnt matter if is Steaua or Real or I dont know, Werder or Nancy, they play this. The sport journal GSP will will say on first page tomorrow Olympique Playstation Lyonnais and is 100% true.
I think this is an excellent opportunity for all romanians teams and all romanians fans to question themselves about our real level, and learn us to work harder to advance. I'm glad for one thing, that this stupid boss of Steaua is KO and stop his "winner delirium".
Lyon is the best team in the world, only Bar�a is doing as well as them. Steaua is clearly 3-rd place team, but must work even for that. They are in very poor shape, as seen in last two ch-ship derbys. Let's hope a fair 0-0 against Real.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Overgame Date: 26-09-2006, 23:50 Edited by: Overgame at: 26-09-2006, 23:56	Don't forget Russia Only 1.290, the gap could be closed thursday, with 3 good results of Russia and 2 eliminations for Romania. Everything is possible.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Lupta_Steaua Date: 27-09-2006, 03:23 Edited by: Lupta_Steaua at: 27-09-2006, 03:28	Overgame, maybe off topic, but we never forget russia But history is history, and football is football. Strange that it took you independence from the other republics (countries now), to get the first European team title

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: antonio62tr Date: 27-09-2006, 09:43	Last night Portugal lost two Romania lost Germany lost Netherland did not play....Not a good week for this countries...

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 27-09-2006, 12:45
Edited by: dinamo_fan_4_ever
at: 27-09-2006, 12:46

@moro
noone said romanian football is better than french football, the whole discussion is romania-russia-portugal-holland and maybe germany which i doubt.
ol.lyon is a great team (beat lille 4-1) and play for fun in theyr championship because they are top class and much obove all the other teams, there are few teams that can beat lyon even from russia,holland germany or portugal (bayern etc...)
portugal teams also lost so there was no harm in the coeffs, russia won 0.500 but still are behind us and holland will rely on the uefa cup teams that i think will qualify (except gronigen) and score LOTS of pts in the UC grops.
from what i saw until now:
germany has a top team: bayern , (like lyon in france but i find lyon better than bayern) and the other teams are not so good or at least dont seem to be
holland has psv which will score pts and the other teams in uefa cup which are strong teams in that competition
portugal has benfica, porto and sporting which can gain pts but not a lot, they will get braga in the uefa cup and loose national ( i hope) and v setubal
russia will loose rubin on the uefa cup and spartak in the UCL but can rely on lokomotiv and cska

so i think france is the strongest than germany and holland, romania, russia and portugal.

p.s.

@lyonnais if hes reding this post; where would u find steaua in french championship : top 3 top 5 top 10 ?? and can u compare its value with any team in france ??

Author: moro
Date: 27-09-2006, 13:05

Dinamo fan, I'm living in France and watching all romanians matches possibles on TVRi, plus european cups since 2004. Steaua could probably be 3-rd in France, because Lyon invincible and Bordeaux very constant hard to beat team. For 3-rd position is allways big clash until last two rounds between 4-5 teams (like Lille, Auxerre, OM, sometimes Lens). Steaua could beat any of those teams in european cup (Lille tough one) but in a 38 rounds ch-ship is hard to keep the rythme. It's another song.
I think Steaua is a "3-rd CL pool" team, we could face Hamburg, Porto, Galata, Olympiakos, etc, teams like that with 51% chances to win, home or away. But 1-st and 2-nd pool teams are for the moment hard to kill, except Celtic and italians (I'd say 25% to win against italians).
Rapid could do same job in France, maybe 1 place below. I think they would've played another game yesterday against Lyon, loosing 0-1 or something like that because completely different style. And they would probably only manage a draw at Kiev.
Dinamo is hard to appreciate because they only played against weak teams this season. I believe they are fragile in defense, first team who can keep possesion more then 50% of the game and a decent defense will beat them out. Maybe sunday, Rapid. Or maybe I'm wrong.

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 27-09-2006, 13:31

more, what u say its true, steaua is a 3rd pool team especially in SUCH A GROUP, i dont think any other team from 3rd potUCL would qualify insteand of lyon and real.
groups with barca and chelsee , real and lyon , inter and bayern are almost impossible (sporting has a chance) there are other groups where there are 3 teams that can end 2nd : hsv, cska, porto or galata , bordeaux, psv or aek, anderlecht, lille or groups where 2 teams can fight for 2nd place: celtic, benfica etc but groups with barca, chelsee and real lyon are 95% impossible.

im glad u find steaua and dinamo in top5 in french champ, about dinamo, last year we played VERY bad, thius year we play well, at least as well as steaua and a bit above rapid (thay had some problems which ended i think), i remember OM -dinamo last year when OM was better but dinamo could have got a draw, as dinamo plays better noe i think they can be top 5 in france... (and i hope)

Author: moro
Date: 27-09-2006, 13:51

I'm not sure Dinamo can defend well against a good team, and the attack wich looks very well with the trio was not tested yet against decent team. We'll need some chance at the GS draw (Dinamo will probably be in 4-th pool).
I found last year performance nice, beating CSKA, good near-draw OM, nice near-draw in Bulgaria; even not passing the stage, it was good performane. Too bad the multiple-boss situatin made nervous champ-ship, is like in OM and PSG every year (Om's performance this year in ch-ship is only matter of luck and they'll fall down in december).
U're right, there's others teams in 2-nd pool CL accesibles. But only in good day.

Author: redandwhite
Date: 27-09-2006, 14:59

@moro
dinamo played this season 14 oficial games (uefa cup + romanian championship) and they have 13 wins and 1 draw (9 wins from 9 games in romanian championship including win against Steaua). Can you belive all that teams (including Steaua) are weak teams? Maybe...
if you say so... Ask Rapid fans if they are happy to meet Dinamo this sunday. I don't think that because they have thursday a decisive game in Portugal and Dinamo will play with second team at home whith Xanthi.

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 27-09-2006, 15:42

yes, last year the entire club was upside dwn, there were no chances for good footbal whaen u change 4 coaches but now its stabile ,we got rid of disaster giovanni bacali and got some good players: ze kalanga, munteanu, ganea and serban, first with WC experience and the other 3 with god experience after playing abraoud and in the national team. we still are week in defence but thats dinamos minus for ages now i cant remember a seazon when we got a really good defence in last 10 years

, the ggod part is that we seem capable to score more than we get;

i think we will win with xanthi and get at least 3 pts in the group stage as last year

Author: moro
Date: 27-09-2006, 16:29

In fact I expect Dinamo to make 5 points in GS (1 win, 2 draw).
Yes redandwhite, all 12 teams except Steaua are bad. I think the game against Rapid will be really relevant because it's a team hard to beat, they will do more then others 13 (Steaua incl) - defending 90 min.
Let's just stay on the Earth and wait for tough games to see if Dinamo is really what "seems" to be, and if stability is key-word (because u know, patience is not one of romanians top-qualyties, especially at Dinamo...).
Even if Rapid is in good shape, I'm a little bit afraid for tomorrow.
I wish one quarter-final AND one semifinal 100% romanian this year.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 27-09-2006, 17:35	u cant win 4ever but at least u have a good morale and be respected by the opponents, the more the other teams fears you the more they try to combat your style instead of making theyr own style and thats where dinamo can benefit rapid is uefa cup quarter finalist, they are e very good team but i think moldovan wont play after a red card some time ago..

Author: doctor
Date: 28-09-2006, 13:38

5 points for Dinamo in GS is good ,because they will q in 16-th of UC. Rapid if they will q they will be in pot2-3,Dinamo 3-4 .We have great chanses people for 6 th place.Steaua has this year an oportunity tu acomodate with Cl,i think they have a chanse to qualify against real 40%.But if they will finish on 3 th and with the points in UC they can play next year from pot 2 in CL,and then they will have for sure a chanse to reach quarter finals. I see a similitudine against Lyon and Steaua,both team began a construction 5 years ago ,Lyon has a biger buget and so they are in front of Steaua with 2-3 years.

Author: Cristi
Date: 29-09-2006, 00:23

The battle for 6th position I think is the moast interesting as the gap between Romania and Portugal is now less then 1,333 and Romania continues playing with all the teams in the competitions. Portugal lost the direct battle as Rapid won against National but the war is far from being over. Interesting to see who will suceed to end this season on the place that is very hounted by many countries...6th.

Author: Maluyaca
Date: 29-09-2006, 00:30

New standings after round 1 of Uefa

5 Germany 9.142 4.714 10.571 10.437 3.642 38.506 5/ 7
6 Portugal 10.750 10.250 8.166 5.500 3.083 37.749 4/ 6
7 Romania 2.166 4.333 5.500 16.833 7.666 36.498 3/ 3

8 Netherlands 6.166 5.416 12.000 7.583 3.071 34.236 5/ 7
9 Russia 3.625 5.875 10.000 10.000 4.625 34.125 2/ 4

Romania is there now they gonna really challenge Germany and more specific Portugal. Too close too call I want to wait for the draw of Uefa groupstage. Netherlands will also come close but I think they are too far away this year to challenge them for real.

Russia is out of the picture for place 6

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gabriel1 Date: 29-09-2006, 00:36	there are 3 country for 6th place...Portugal, Romania and Holland...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gabriel1 Date: 29-09-2006, 00:40 Edited by: gabriel1 at: 29-09-2006, 00:41	Romania will must to profite this year , because is the last year with 3 teams in competition... next year Romania will have 4 teams after this for the least 3 years no more than 6 teams...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: shrike Date: 29-09-2006, 00:48	I think that holland is to far behind. Just Portugal and Romania. Mayby after tonight a 5th place isn't a joke anymore. Germany lost two teams. But they will keep their 3 cl teams because Portugal won 't overtake them.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: guesswho Date: 29-09-2006, 00:57	whoaaa....wait a minute now guys...you're all talking about the 5th and 6th place but you're forgetting the most important thing DO YOU THINK ANDORRA AND SAN MARINO WILL GET AT LEAST 0.0000001 POINTS IN THE NEXT 50 YEARS

Author: Arny
Date: 29-09-2006, 01:07
Edited by: Arny
at: 29-09-2006, 01:10

@Malyuaca

I hope that Romania reaches 6th spot cuz i'm a romanian. But let's be honest. We now only need 2 wins over Portugal. Maybe even past Germany because i dont see Hamburg well in Chl or Eintracht in Uefa for example.
But i do honestly think that Netherlands can overtrown Portugal. Altough they do not get the 6th spot. I believe that Ajax will have a good season this year and maybe make it to the final. But we'll see

And to really be honest, i admit that Romania's practical place is between 8-9. So i agree that Dutch and also Portuguesse footbal is far better than Romanian. But for Portugal i must say that u were lucky to be here because of the Euro2004 which u host it and it had a major impact over you. The stadium, the investments etc.
I also think that Russian team are equal or slighly above Romanian too. But even like that to be in the top 9 is a great achievemt and we are even practicaly now.

Author: Farul_CTA
Date: 29-09-2006, 04:25
Edited by: Farul_CTA
at: 29-09-2006, 04:26

Romania was lucky with coeff the first round of UEFA CUP:
- Rapid if have scored in the 90 minutes ( had some chances to do that) Romania and Portugal had both 1 point but now Romania has 2 pts and Portugal none
- Dinamo at the draw was between Tottenham and Xanthy and for sure with the english we couldn't get 4 pts
So Romania for sure 6th or 5th place this year!

If will get 6th place and the 3rd team qualify in CL for Romania the problem will be the stadiums where they have to play (maybe finally will have good stadiums)

To @Overgame (he allways has something with the romanian teams!)you had a joke "Oh please, could we get serious predictions sometimes ? " after DINAMO and RAPID results we laugh at it so tell us more jokes about romanian teams pls !
I hope now you are more tired about Romania and I hope Rapid or Dinamo will meet FC Bruges or Zulte and win to laugh at you!

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: steaua_bucuresti Date: 29-09-2006, 04:46	Unfortunatelly Romania has only one stadium for Champions League...we should do something to change this situation because it's a shame for us.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 29-09-2006, 08:55
Edited by: Ricardo
at: 29-09-2006, 09:04

If 3 teams qualify for CL, then there will be a big problem! they should all play in the same stadium and only 1 CL-match can be played in a stadium per week (rememeber the Milan-stadium, due to which already twice a CL match was postponed!)

But the draw can now do a lot, though I think there are a lot of good teams in teh UC-GS. differences are not too big.
Germany has Bayern, Werder, HSV in CL, Leverkusen and Frankfurt
Portugal has Port, Sporting &Benfica in CL, Braga in UC
Romania has Steaua in CL, Rapid&Dinamo in UC
Netherlands has PSV in CL, Ajax, Feyenoord, AZ&Heerenveen in UC
Russia has Spartak and CSKA in CL

Where Germany and Portugal must gain their points in Cl, Romania must get it in UC. Netherlands has all high-coefficient teams left and can gain in CL and UC. Russia seems to be out of the top-8, for this year(good for them(?!) as they stay with 4 teams).
I think Netherlands is too far off to get to even 7th spot, though you never know, they can only reach it after winter.
Germany will keep their 5th spot due to Bayern and Werder, Portugal will collect some more points in CL, and depending on the UC draw of Dinamo and Rapid Romania will get go over Portugal or not.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: executor Date: 29-09-2006, 09:09 Edited by: executor at: 29-09-2006, 09:11	@Ricardo Maybe it won't be that bad. Already work has begun on Rapid stadium, half of it is closed and there's plenty of time to finish the job. Also the National Stadium can be easily upgraded (the Federation hopes to host the 2009 UEFA Cup final, so...)

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: frosty Date: 29-09-2006, 09:16	no they don`t,dinamo will refurbish their stadium for sure and if they qualify they will play on their stadium,rapid if they qualify,they wont play at home...next season,in 2 years i think we`ll have 5 or 6 CL stadyums,so it would be enough,and all 3 teams would play at home if they all qualify in CL

Author: doctor
Date: 29-09-2006, 09:27

I`ve predicted Romania on 5th or 6th ,and this objective it`s almost done. England with 4 perfect teams and 3 good teams managed to have all teams in group phase ,they are the best in Europe.Along them there is Romania with all teams in group phase. I think Romania could easly outscore Portugal. In my opinion to give another prediction. ALL 3 ROMANIAN TEAMS WILL BE IN 16-th of UC,maybe Steaua will be in 8-th of CL but very hard and close battle with REAL anything could happen there. Romania will play another 12 matches in group phase if they win half of them combined with draws,that means a coeficient of 11,5 aproximate.
Then they will play 6 games

Another prediction that i made ,ROmania coeficient will be over 15 ,combined with the year before more then 32.

Romania will be on 6th for minimum 3 years. So start investing in ROmania

Author: Maluyaca
Date: 29-09-2006, 09:37

@Arny

First of all you have to wait for the draw of UEFA. I didn't see the match of Nacional - Rapid but if Nacional can bring Rapid in problems I think most teams in Europe can do that.

For example:

Sevilla, AZ, Rapid, Livorno, Tottenham
Ajax, Celta, Palermo ,Dinamo ,Nancy

I don't think that this will be a lot of wins for the Romanian teams.

Second of all I supose that Romania will pass Portugal this season before the end of the year but what will happen next year. It's still a possibility that Sporting, Porto and Benfica go to the UEFA cup.

So it's not over yet. Good luck to everybody

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: doctor Date: 29-09-2006, 09:45	i guess last year performance was not a accident

Author: doctor
Date: 29-09-2006, 09:51

@Maluyaca,you puted in front i think worst groups,still i think that Rapid and Dinamo in could make it in 3 rd place ,i want Braga in a group with Dinamo or Rapid,to clarify for u to that Romania will be on 6th.

Steaua VS Porto

Rapid VS Sporting

Dinamo VS Benfica

Braga will score to few points...

Portugesse teams will have to score almost duble then Romanian ,with the advantage of 1.3 points and with Braga still in sight i have to say that 3 VS 3 teams who will score more will be on 6th. No chanse fr Portugal

Author: Ricardo
Date: 29-09-2006, 11:54
Edited by: Ricardo
at: 29-09-2006, 11:56

Following the "high coefficient beat lower coefficients"- rule (what I call predictions) some changes has happened last night. Germany lost 2 teams, and therfor lost an advantage and must fear for their 5th spot (can doctor be such a great predictor????)
My current predictions say:
5. Germany 43.507
6. Portugal 42.416
7. Netherlands 41.094
8. Romania 40.499
9. Russia 35.375

Russia has lost contact with the group 8 - due to their Lokomotiv derailing. Netherlands has high ranking teams qualified therefor keeps ahead of Romania, but we know Romania is performing better than their ranking would predict. Germany should fear for their 5th spot. Could doctor be right?

For a complete list check my site on the right side under 'Predicted Country Ranking'07'

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: panda Date: 29-09-2006, 12:06	@ricardo Lokomotiv derailing? What are you like....?

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Ricardo Date: 29-09-2006, 12:32	@panda It sounded good (in Dutch), is it correct English? I found it a nice phrase

Author: AristotelCostel
Date: 29-09-2006, 12:43
Edited by: AristotelCostel
at: 29-09-2006, 15:24

Maluyaca said: �Second of all I supose that Romania will pass Portugal this season before the end of the year but what will happen next year. It's still a possibility that Sporting, Porto and Benfica go to the UEFA cup�.

Dear Maluyaca, comparing Romania (2.166) vs. Portugal�s (10.75) coefficient in 2002/2003, beginning with the next season, Romania will start with about 8 points in front of Portugal. I predict that we will be over Portugal even if Sporting, Porto and Benfica would win UCL, UC and � Libertadores Cup.

For

this season, in the spring of 2007, because Steaua will reach for sure the third round of UC, Dinamo and Rapid are compelled to go beyond Steaua�s achievements. So, the �dream� teams of Europe will be just victims of the ROMANIAN SELF-PRIDE.

Due to the fact that only Sporting, Porto, Benfica, Steaua, Dinamo and Rapid are able to reach semifinals of UC this year, it�s not a very big problem if Portugal will be for the last season in front of us, because we both will be over GERMANY. Of course, this is a bad joke.

Author: panda
Date: 29-09-2006, 13:59

@ricardo

Yes, it is good English- I imagine you smiled when you thought of it.

Here in UK (maybe it is the same in NL) media, especially radio and tabloid newspapers are very keen on this kind of witty headline / soundbite.... you know like 'Arsenal fire their guns... Steaua (or Crvena Zvezda) in Heaven....

or the advertisement for Sky Sports EPL coverage 'Do you know your Arce (the Paraguayan guy) from your (Nicky) Butt?'

Author: Maluyaca
Date: 29-09-2006, 14:48
Edited by: Maluyaca
at: 29-09-2006, 15:12

@AristotelCostel

Clarification because you misunderstood me !

This season it is 2006 (groupstages) - 2007 (after groupstages) and I mean after the groupstages so next year 2007.

This topic goes about country ranking 2007 (next year but still this season).

For Country ranking 2008 I think Portugal will end up on position 9 and Romania probably position 5 or 6. This is the only time that I talk about next football season on this topic.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: AristotelCostel Date: 29-09-2006, 15:13	Sorry Maluyaca, but you misunderstood my commentary, because I started with the naked true�next season certainties, and I continued with �everything is possible� for this season.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Maluyaca Date: 29-09-2006, 15:33	Then we think the same, next season Romania is out of reach for Portugal but this year it's not over yet. Romania are coming close, but still have to pass. If they do that then they still have to stay above Portugal.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: aetius Date: 29-09-2006, 16:20	if the uefa group draw put toghether in the same group teams from germany, portugal, romania and holland will see a great football matches because the prize is rising: qualification and "kill the enemy " coeff . too bad for romania will have just 2 teams but ...this is life. a football one...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 29-09-2006, 16:41	2 teams but if they both qualify than romania will get ~ 3pts at the coeff but if both dinamo and rapid get 3pts ( a win and a draw) and neither qualify ots still +2pts for romania

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gabriel1 Date: 29-09-2006, 22:25 Edited by: gabriel1 at: 29-09-2006, 22:32	Romania ...from 26th place to 7th place (until this moment), in just 2 years..is fucking incredibile... .. it take us(romanians) by surprise and for the moment ,Romania has just 1 stadium with CL standards( steaua's stadium).....

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gabriel1 Date: 29-09-2006, 22:31	...the frf(romanian football federation) boss say that dinamo or rapid will play for sure in other country in CL groupe stage next year...maybe in Hungary, Bulgaria...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: TzarSamuil Date: 29-09-2006, 22:40	i think Romania will finish on the 6th spot. 4 Portuguese teams cannot compete with 3 Romanian. Each Portuguese team must make twice as more points as each Romanian.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 29-09-2006, 23:06	and 2 romanian teams are in uefa cup, portuguese only 1, so its easier for romanian teams to gain pts

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: leekid Date: 29-09-2006, 23:14 Edited by: leekid at: 29-09-2006, 23:15	So it's settled than... We should all go to the 'Romania on the 5th place' topic

Author: cinebelul
Date: 30-09-2006, 01:31
Edited by: cinebelul
at: 30-09-2006, 01:47

All romanian opponents still lost 2 teams (Rus, Hol, Por & Ger)
I think there is no problem for Romania to end this year on 6th..

@Ricardo: you are wrong with your predictions. Holland has 4 good teams in UC, but they divide at 7, not at 3 like RO. So, 2 Hol winners bring them fewer points than a Rom winner ! Holland will maybe follow Romania for some months this year, but I don�?t think they really have a chance to overtake RO this year...Portugal is dead, I think next round or one later RO will say "bye-bye Portugal, we see you in some years, when we will fall back..."

Accept this fact: Romania will be on 6th or 5th after this year, so they will play 2008/09 with 3 teams in UCL & other 3 in UC

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gabriel1 Date: 30-09-2006, 11:44 Edited by: gabriel1 at: 30-09-2006, 11:45	@cinebelul ...not just in 2008-2009, also in 2009-2010, 2010-2011 and maybe in 2011-2012 when we aspected to fall back... anyway, it will be a great long period for Romanian footbal, with 6 teams in Europe...like I said before, Romania entry in Europe with footbal, too...

Author: Ricardo
Date: 30-09-2006, 16:28
Edited by: Ricardo
at: 30-09-2006, 16:37

@cinebelul,
My prediction follow the following lines: Higher coefficient win at home and draws away. That's how it is build up.
If I would do otherwise, it would become subjective and though I might be above average in predictions I'm not the best and certainly not perfect in it. So I'll keep it like that to stay objective.
Nevertheless I'll have to agree that it looks wrong to me too. But as I said before: Romanian teams performa better as you would expect from their coefficient. It is a country on the rise. And I know Feyenoord has a high coefficient, while Tottenham a low, but Tottenham will win from Feyenoord home & away!
And as a Romanian you should also see that Rapid has thei higher coefficeint, but currently Dinamo is the better team!
The prediction is an indication, and you should think of teams out- or under-performing. What was interesting is that Germany will not get very far, other countries get too close to stay on 5th this year, maybe.
Let's wait for the draw and for some more matches!

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: AristotelCostel Date: 30-09-2006, 16:41	@Ricardo On Sunday...Dinamo-Rapid. You are very unlucky. You might be wrong again...

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Ricardo Date: 02-10-2006, 11:01	I'm afraid I was right this time. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Author: Maluyaca
Date: 20-10-2006, 17:31

Standings after matchday 1 of Uefa

5 Germany 9.142 4.714 10.571 10.437 4.357 39.221 5/ 7
6 Portugal 10.750 10.250 8.166 5.500 3.416 38.082 4/ 6
7 Romania 2.166 4.333 5.500 16.833 8.000 36.832 3/ 3
8 Netherlands 6.166 5.416 12.000 7.583 3.928 35.093 5/ 7
9 Russia 3.625 5.875 10.000 10.000 5.125 34.625 2/ 4

Germany will surely stay in top 6. Russia is too far behind to compete for position 6. Portugal, Romania and netherlands will battle for the last spot. For the moment still going for Portugal, Romania will come close and I'm surprised that the Netherlands are coming. I think they're still too far behind but we have to watch them carefully because they have a lot of teams in UEFA where you can gain easier points then in CL. Still going for Portugal.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: viulo Date: 20-10-2006, 17:46	I only see Portugal holding on to the 6th spot if at least two of the three CL teams go to UEFA Cup and score some points there. At the moment, I think it is likely that all of them - FC Porto, Benfica and Sporting - finish third in their CL groups.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Ricardo Date: 30-10-2006, 14:42	predictions for his week: Germany: 5/7 = 0.714 Portugal:4/6 = 0.667 Romania: 2/3 = 0.667 Netherlands: 7/7 = 1.000 Russia: 1/4 0.250 It sounds like a going to be a good week for Holland!

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: badgerboy Date: 30-10-2006, 15:03	Ricardo Does these numbers mean we can expect some late changes to your "prediction game" scores in the near future? Hamburg & Porto to draw perhaps makes sense? I've finally lost faith in Hamburg myself - though not quite enough to give the game to Porto. But I'll be intrigued to know which Dutch team you now think wont win!

Author: Ricardo
Date: 30-10-2006, 15:38

@badgerboy,
it's averaging out. Ofcourse I thik that it should be possible for all 4 teams to win, but I don't want to sound to overconfident, so I dropped a point. On the other hand if Inter can win from Milan, it should be able to win in Moscow too.
And HSV-Porto is a nice 'important' match for the 6th spot. But waht to say of it. van der Vaart is back and that looks like to motivate the team. It's HSV last chance to still play in Europe after winter. But if Porto loses, they might very well be out of the race for the second spot. I'm not sure what to expect, both teams do not want to lose, while also a draw is bad for both... I think in the end it will be 0-0 or so.(what did I say on forum 2?)

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: badgerboy Date: 30-10-2006, 15:55	1-0 to Hamburg. Which would've probably been my own prediction for this game at the start of the season - or even after the first couple of matchdays. But Hamburg still seem so poor domestically (though they draw more than they lose). If they can't beat Hannover at home it seems hard to predict them beating Porto.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Ricardo Date: 30-10-2006, 19:11	Yes, after this weekend I think rather it would be a draw then a 1-0. I'll go through all my predictions again and I hope to be in time to change it all. And later I regret half of my changes again

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: doctor Date: 30-10-2006, 20:04	Germany: 5/7 = 0.714 Portugal:4/6 = 0.333 Romania: 3/3 = 1.333 Netherlands: 7/7 = 1.000 Russia: 1/4 0.250

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: Ricardo Date: 30-10-2006, 20:28	3/3=1.333 ??? With 3/3 I can live-it's not something I don't hold for very well possible. But 1.333 is getting unlikely (but hey I can be wrong)

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: moro Date: 30-10-2006, 20:46	Hey, the doctor's tired, he wanted to say 4/3=1.333. Although the patients are in biiiiiiig trouble receving overdose antibiotics. Who knows?

Author: Auke
Date: 30-10-2006, 22:31

The battle for position 6 will get closer again this week (and will probably for the next match weeks). So the ranking 2007 is quite interesting, but what about the battle for position 6 on the 2008 ranking. That looks promising for a nice battle as well! Romania is already a couple of points ahead on the 5th place, so they will probably keep one of the "traditional" countries out of the top-6. Russia looks out of the race for 6th this year, but for 2008 they are still on the 6th spot. Still a lot of work to do for Germany, Netherlands and Portugal... Russia is not to good at this moment, so this is the time for those countries to get close and pass Russia on the 2008 ranking.

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: doctor Date: 31-10-2006, 10:40	Edit : Germany: 5/7 = 0.714 Portugal:2/6 = 0.333 Romania: 4/3 = 1.333 Netherlands: 7/7 = 1.000 Russia: 1/4 0.250 I didn`t undestood what 3/3 meaned,now i know ..sry

Re: The battle for position 6
Author: gabriel1 Date: 31-10-2006, 14:59 Edited by: gabriel1 at: 31-10-2006, 15:01	my predictions for all romanian teams this week: real madrid-steaua bucuresti 1-0 ...0p dinamo bucuresti-besiktas istanbul 2-0 ...2p hapoel-rapid bucuresti 0-1 ...2p so...+1,333p for Romania in country ranking after this week...

Author: bcpcd
Date: 31-10-2006, 17:07
Edited by: bcpcd
at: 31-10-2006, 17:18

31st oct to 2nd nov European Football week:

Germany: 6 pts, 1 team exempt
Portugal: 3 pts
Romania: 3 pts
Holland: 7 pts, 1 team exempt
Russia: o pts.

I'll try to predict top after group stage.That include bonus for teams reached last 16 of CL:

5.Germany: 41,792, 17 pts in GS from now count for UEFA coeff.+ 1 pt. bonus;remain 1 team in CL and 2-3 teams in UC;
6.Portugal: 39,915, 11 pts;remain 2-3 teams in UC;i can't predict result of FCP-HSV battle for 3rd place;
7.Romania: 39,498, 8 pts;remain (i'm so hopefull, please accept this)3 teams in UC;
8.Holland: 38,378, 22 pts + 1 pt bonus;remain 1 team in CL and at least 3 teams in UC;
9.Russia 35,375, 3 pts + 1 pt bonus and CSKA out from round 2 of CL

Hoping to Romania reach 6th place, i'm afraid more about Holland than Portugal...