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Author: luksus
Date: 25-08-2006, 23:52

01. Chornomorets Odesa (UKR) 30 v 70 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC (ISR)
02. SC Braga (POR) 40 v 60 Chievo Verona (ITA)
03. Levadia Tallinn (EST) 10 v 90 Newcastle United FC (ENG)
04. Molde FK (NOR) 20 v 80 Rangers (SCO)
05. R. Standard de Liège (BEL) 35 v 65 RC Celta de Vigo (ESP)
06. Maccabi Haifa FC (ISR) 55 v 45 Litex Lovech (BUL)
07. Derry City FC (IRL) 5 v 95 Paris SG (FRA)
08. Hertha BSC Berlin (GER) 70 v 30 Odense BK (DEN)
09. Legia Warszawa (POL) 30 v 70 Austria (AUT)
10. Panathinaikos FC (GRE) 90 v 10 Metalurg Zaporizhzhya (UKR)
11. FC Lokomotiv Moskva (RUS) 75 v 25 Zulte Waregem (BEL)
12. Heart of Midlothian FC (SCO) 30 v 70 Sparta Praha (CZE)
13. Fenerbahçe SK (TUR) 85 v 15 Randers FC (DEN)
14. FC Salzburg (AUT) 45 v 55 Blackburn Rovers FC (ENG)
15. FC Schalke 04 (GER) 60 v 40 AS Nancy-Lorraine (FRA)
16. Ethnikos Achnas FC (CYP) 35 v 65 Lens (FRA)
17. FC Slovan Liberec (CZE) 49 v 51 Crvena Zvezda (SCG)

18. AZ Alkmaar (NED) 55 v 45 Kayserispor (TUR)
19. FC Rubin Kazan (RUS) 35 v 65 Parma FC (ITA)
20. Eintracht Frankfurt (GER) 55 v 45 Brøndby IF (DEN)
21. Atromitos FC (GRE) 3 v 97 Sevilla FC (ESP, holders)
22. Besiktas (TUR) 70 v 30 CSKA Sofia (BUL)
23. Vitória FC (POR) 49 v 51 SC Heerenveen (NED)

24. Olympique de Marseille (FRA) 60 v 40 FK Mladá Boleslav (CZE)
25. Åtvidabergs FF (SWE) 20 v 80 Grasshopper-Club (SUI)
26. AFC Rapid Bucuresti (ROU) 60 v 40 CD Nacional (POR)
27. Trabzonspor (TUR) 50 v 50 CA Osasuna (ESP)
28. FC Basel 1893 (SUI) 85 v 15 FK Rabotnicki (MKD)
29. West Ham United FC (ENG) 51 v 49 US Città di Palermo (ITA)

30. Lokomotiv Sofia (BUL) 35 v 65 Feyenoord (NED)
31. Ru?omberok (SVK) 10 v 90 Club Brugge KV (BEL)
32. FC Sion (SUI) 15 v 85 Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER)
33. Partizan (SCG) 65 v 35 FC Groningen (NED)
34. Skoda Xanthi FC (GRE) 40 v 60 Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti (ROU)
35. Slavia Praha (CZE) 45 v 55 Tottenham Hotspur FC (ENG)
36. IK Start (NOR) 5 v 95 Ajax (NED)
37. FC Artmedia (SVK) 35 v 65 RCD Espanyol (ESP)
38. Wisla (POL) 50 v 50 Iraklis (GRE)
39. Livorno Calcio (ITA) 45 v 55 SV Pasching (AUT)
40. Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) 40 v 60 AJ Auxerre (FRA)

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 25-08-2006, 23:58	i agree with u only besiktas - cska sofia 60 / 40 or even tied (58/42) and dinamo zagreb - auxerre 50/50

Author: LevskiFan
Date: 26-08-2006, 00:07
Edited by: LevskiFan
at: 26-08-2006, 00:08

01. Chornomorets Odesa (UKR) 30 v 70 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC (ISR)
02. SC Braga (POR) 20 v 80 Chievo Verona (ITA)
03. Levadia Tallinn (EST) 1 v 99 Newcastle United FC (ENG)
04. Molde FK (NOR) 40 v 60 Rangers (SCO)
05. R. Standard de Liège (BEL) 60 v 40 RC Celta de Vigo (ESP)
06. Maccabi Haifa FC (ISR) 40 v 60 Litex Lovech (BUL)
07. Derry City FC (IRL) 20 v 80 Paris SG (FRA)
08. Hertha BSC Berlin (GER) 70 v 30 Odense BK (DEN)
09. Legia Warszawa (POL) 35 v 65 Austria (AUT)
10. Panathinaikos FC (GRE) 96 v 4 Metalurg Zaporizhzhya (UKR)
11. FC Lokomotiv Moskva (RUS) 90 v 10 Zulte Waregem (BEL)
12. Heart of Midlothian FC (SCO) 45 v 55 Sparta Praha (CZE)
13. Fenerbahçe SK (TUR) 60 v 40 Randers FC (DEN)
14. FC Salzburg (AUT) 80 v 20 Blackburn Rovers FC (ENG)
15. FC Schalke 04 (GER) 90 v 10 AS Nancy-Lorraine (FRA)
16. Ethnikos Achnas FC (CYP) 40 v 60 Lens (FRA)
17. FC Slovan Liberec (CZE) 55 v 45 Crvena Zvezda (SCG)
18. AZ Alkmaar (NED) 55 v 45 Kayserispor (TUR)
19. FC Rubin Kazan (RUS) 70 v 30 Parma FC (ITA)
20. Eintracht Frankfurt (GER) 30 v 70 Brøndby IF (DEN)
21. Atromitos FC (GRE) 1 v 99 Sevilla FC (ESP, holders)
22. Besiktas (TUR) 70 v 30 CSKA Sofia (BUL)
23. Vitória FC (POR) 30 v 70 SC Heerenveen (NED)
24. Olympique de Marseille (FRA) 65 v 35 FK Mladá Boleslav (CZE)
25. Åtvidabergs FF (SWE) 20 v 80 Grasshopper-Club (SUI)
26. AFC Rapid Bucuresti (ROU) 40 v 60 CD Nacional (POR)
27. Trabzonspor (TUR) 30 v 70 CA Osasuna (ESP)
28. FC Basel 1893 (SUI) 60 v 40 FK Rabotnicki (MKD)
29. West Ham United FC (ENG) 55 v 45 US Città di Palermo (ITA)
30. Lokomotiv Sofia (BUL) 55 v 45 Feyenoord (NED)
31. Ru?omberok (SVK) 51 v 49 Club Brugge KV (BEL)
32. FC Sion (SUI) 20 v 80 Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER)
33. Partizan (SCG) 45 v 55 FC Groningen (NED)
34. Skoda Xanthi FC (GRE) 52 v 48 Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti (ROU)
35. Slavia Praha (CZE) 10 v 90 Tottenham Hotspur FC (ENG)
36. IK Start (NOR) 35 v 65 Ajax (NED)
37. FC Artmedia (SVK) 35 v 65 RCD Espanyol (ESP)
38. Wisla (POL) 45 v 55 Iraklis (GRE)
39. Livorno Calcio (ITA) 45 v 55 SV Pasching (AUT)
40. Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) 20 v 80 AJ Auxerre (FRA)

Author: arqueroarba
Date: 26-08-2006, 00:44

@ LevskiFan

Standard Liege - Celta 60-40?????

I don't know if you are overvaluating Standard of undervaluating Celta. Anyway, from my point of view virtually every clash between a Spanish team and a Belgian team has a clear favourite, even to win both matches. Maybe is because I have fresh in my memory that 1-7 of my Athletic Club there two years ago or the last performances of Belgian teams in Champions League.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Krys Date: 26-08-2006, 00:51	Rubin - Parma 70-30 ???? It's absurd

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: LevskiFan Date: 26-08-2006, 00:57	well...let's wait until the matches are over and then we'll talk ok I base the predictions from my point of view..which is totally objective..if u don't agree post ur predictions

Author: Overgame
Date: 26-08-2006, 01:32

{{the last performances of Belgian teams in Champions League.>>

Last 3 years
Anderlecht : 3W 1D 14L and 7qW 1qD 2qL
Opponents :
GS : Lyon (B) Celtic (B) Bayern (B), Valencia (A) Inter (A) Werder Bremen (C) and Liverpool (A) Chelsea (B) Betis
(A)=pot A this year, ....
qRounds : Rapid Bucuresti, Wisla Kraków, Benfica (C), Neftchi Baku and Slavia Praha

Brugge : 4W 3D 5L and 4qW 1qD 3qL (2005=no GS)
Opponents :
GS : AC Milan (A) Ajax Celta and Juventus Bayern (B) Rapid Wien
qRounds : Borussia Dortmund, Shaktar donetsk (loss) and Vĺlerengen IF

Conclusion :
Anderlecht had 3 bad draw, we'll se this year.
Brugge today isn't Brugge tomorow. They're able to beat Milan and lose versus Donetsk.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: SHEV Date: 26-08-2006, 01:41	31. Ru?omberok (SVK) 51 v 49 Club Brugge KV (BEL) I want this very much, but it is nonsense. Go bet your money on that and be rich.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Overgame Date: 26-08-2006, 01:45	Oh i stopped to read his prediction after the 1st group :p

Author: Aliceag
Date: 26-08-2006, 03:10

From the Portuguese point of view it was a good draw. All teams were unseeded so we would not get easy opponents! From the list available I'd say we got pretty suitable ones.

Braga - Chievo ; Setubal - Heerenveen ; Nacional - Rapid

I'd say the others are all a bit stronger in the paper but not that stronger in the reality so I expect close matches, and any of the teams have fair chances to pass. I give no less than 40% to any of the Portuguese teams, and I'll be happy if any of them reach the group stage, since they never been there.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 26-08-2006, 11:00

A list of the UEFA R1 games by proximity of the two teams coefficient. Closest (and hence in theory most likely to provide a surprise) at the top.

Maccabi Haifa FC 19.108 PFC Litex Lovech 24.016 4.908
SC Braga 17.533 AC Chievo Verona 23.020 5.487
Brondby IF 23.593 Eintracht Frankfurt 15.960 7.633
FC Slovan Liberec 28.769 FK Crvena Zvezda 20.600 8.169
Skoda Xanthi FC 12.587 FC Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti 22.381 9.794
Legia Warszawa 16.104 FK Austria Wien 27.723 11.619
SK Slavia Praha 33.769 Tottenham Hotspur FC 20.950 12.819
Trabzonspor 11.634 CA Osasuna 25.006 13.372
West Ham United FC 20.950 US Citta di Palermo 36.020 15.070
Vitoria FC Setubal 15.533 SC Heerenveen 30.640 15.107
FC Salzburg 8.723 Blackburn Rovers FC 23.950 15.227
AS Livorno Calcio 22.020 SV Pasching 6.723 15.297
AFC Rapid Bucuresti 30.381 CD Nacional 14.533 15.848
Wisla Krakow 29.104 Iraklis FC 12.587 16.517
FK Partizan Beograd 30.600 FC Groningen 13.640 16.960
FC Chornomorets Odesa 8.777 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC 26.108 17.331
Besiktas JK 38.634 PFC CSKA Sofia 21.016 17.618
Atvidabergs FF 4.372 Grasshopper-Club Zurich 23.537 19.165
FC Artmedia Bratislava 13.070 RCD Espanyol 33.006 19.936
Fenerbahce SK 28.634 Randers FC 5.593 23.041
AC Sparta Praha 44.769 Heart of Midlothian FC 20.023 24.746
R. Standard de Liege 17.981 RC Celta de Vigo 43.006 25.025
FC Lokomotiv Moskva 41.504 SV Zulte Waregem 9.981 31.523
NK Dinamo Zagreb 20.647 AJ Auxerre 53.757 33.110
Molde FK 8.921 Rangers FC 43.023 34.102
Ethnikos Achnas FC 3.355 RC Lens 39.757 36.402
Hertha BSC Berlin 46.960 Odense BK 8.593 38.367
Olympique de Marseille 48.757 FK Mlada Boleslav 8.769 39.988
AZ Alkmaar 48.640 Kayserispor 8.634 40.006
Derry City FC 1.430 Paris Saint-Germain FC 41.757 40.327
MFK Ruzomberok 6.070 Club Brugge KV 49.981 43.911
Feyenoord 54.640 PFC Lokomotiv Sofia 8.016 46.624
FC Basel 1893 49.537 FK Rabotnicki 1.760 47.777
FC Schalke 04 64.960 AS Nancy-Lorraine 16.757 48.203
FC Sion 8.537 Bayer 04 Leverkusen 57.960 49.423
Atromitos FC 10.587 Sevilla FC 61.006 50.419
FC Rubin Kazan 10.504 Parma FC 63.020 52.516
IK Start 6.921 AFC Ajax Amsterdam 60.640 53.719
Panathinaikos FC 66.587 FC Metalurh Zaporizhya 9.777 56.810
FC Levadia Tallinn 0.880 Newcastle United FC 75.950 75.070

Author: badgerboy
Date: 26-08-2006, 11:01

And here's a similar list but this time based on position in the team ranking list (at the end of the 2005-06 season).

Maccabi Haifa FC 123 PFC Litex Lovech Bulgaria 98 25
FC Slovan Liberec 88 FK Crvena Zvezda Serbia 115 27
SC Braga 136 AC Chievo Verona Italy 103 33
SK Slavia Praha 70 Tottenham Hotspur FC England 112.5 42.5
Brondby IF 101 Eintracht Frankfurt Germany 144.5 43.5
West Ham United FC 112.5 US Citta di Palermo Italy 64 48.5
Skoda Xanthi FC 158 FC Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti Romania 107 51
Legia Warszawa 143 FK Austria Wien Austria 92 51
Besiktas JK 59 PFC CSKA Sofia Bulgaria 112 53
Vitoria FC Setubal 146 SC Heerenveen Netherlands 79 67
AFC Rapid Bucuresti 81 CD Nacional Portugal 148.5 67.5
FK Partizan Beograd 80 FC Groningen Netherlands 150.5 70.5
AC Sparta Praha 44 Heart of Midlothian FC Scotland 117 73
Wisla Krakow 84 Iraklis FC Greece 159 75
Trabzonspor 171 CA Osasuna Spain 95 76
FC Artmedia Bratislava 153 RCD Espanyol Spain 73 80
NK Dinamo Zagreb 114 AJ Auxerre France 34 80
R. Standard de Liege 132 RC Celta de Vigo Spain 49 83
FC Salzburg 193 Blackburn Rovers FC England 99 94
AS Livorno Calcio 107.5 SV Pasching Austria 201.6 94.1
FC Chornomorets Odesa 192.3 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC Israel 94 98.3
Atvidabergs FF 217.6 Grasshopper-Club Zurich Switzerland 102 115.6
FC Schalke 04 20 AS Nancy-Lorraine France 137.5 117.5
Fenerbahce SK 89 Randers FC Denmark 211.5 122.5
FC Lokomotiv Moskva 52 SV Zulte Waregem Belgium 181.8 129.8
Molde FK 191 Rangers FC Scotland 48 143
Olympique de Marseille 38 FK Mlada Boleslav Czech Rep. 192.6 154.6
Hertha BSC Berlin 41 Odense BK Denmark 196 155
AZ Alkmaar 39 Kayserispor Turkey 194.5 155.5
Atromitos FC 180.5 Sevilla FC Spain 22 158.5
FC Rubin Kazan 181.2 Parma FC Italy 21 160.2
Panathinaikos FC 19 FC Metalurh Zaporizhya Ukraine 182 163
Feyenoord 31 PFC Lokomotiv Sofia Bulgaria 197.5 166.5
FC Sion 196.5 Bayer 04 Leverkusen Germany 27 169.5
Ethnikos Achnas FC 226.3 RC Lens France 56 170.3
MFK Ruzomberok 209 Club Brugge KV Belgium 36 173
IK Start 201.4 AFC Ajax Amsterdam Netherlands 23 178.4
Derry City FC 231.5 Paris Saint-Germain FC France 51 180.5
FC Basel 1893 37 FK Rabotnicki Macedonia 231.1 194.1
FC Levadia Tallinn 231.8 Newcastle United FC England 18 213.8

Partial points indicate at least one of the teams is using the country coefficient. For example Tottenham & West Ham are ranked 112.5 as England's coefficient is between CSKA (112) and Troyes (113)

Author: Severin
Date: 26-08-2006, 11:27

1. FC Chornomorets Odesa (UKR) 35 v 65 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC (ISR)
2. SC Braga (POR) 45 v 65 AC Chievo Verona (ITA)
3. FC Levadia Tallinn (EST) 5 v 95 Newcastle United FC (ENG)
4. Molde FK (NOR) 20 v 80 Rangers FC (SCO)
5. R. Standard de Ličge (BEL) 40 v 60 RC Celta de Vigo (ESP)
6. Maccabi Haifa FC (ISR) 60 v 40 PFC Litex Lovech (BUL)
7. Derry City FC (IRL) 5 v 95 Paris Saint-Germain FC (FRA)
8. Hertha BSC Berlin (GER) 75 v 25 Odense BK (DEN)
9. Legia Warszawa (POL) 45 v 55 FK Austria Wien (AUT)
10. Panathinaikos FC (GRE) 85 v 15 FC Metalurg Zaporizhzhya (UKR)
11. FC Lokomotiv Moskva (RUS) 85 v 15 SV Zulte Waregem (BEL)
12. Heart of Midlothian FC (SCO) 50 v 50 AC Sparta Praha (CZE)
13. Fenerbahçe SK (TUR) 90 v 10 Randers FC (DEN)
14. FC Salzburg (AUT) 35 v 65 Blackburn Rovers FC (ENG)
15. FC Schalke 04 (GER) 80 v 20 AS Nancy-Lorraine (FRA)
16. Ethnikos Achnas FC (CYP) 15 v 85 RC Lens (FRA)
17. FC Slovan Liberec (CZE) 45 v 55 FK Crvena Zvezda (SCG)
18. AZ Alkmaar (NED) 80 v 20 Kayserispor (TUR)
19. FC Rubin Kazan (RUS) 20 v 80 Parma FC (ITA)
20. Eintracht Frankfurt (GER) 45 v 55 Brřndby IF (DEN)
21. Atromitos FC (GRE) 5 v 95 Sevilla FC (ESP)
22. Beşiktaş JK (TUR) 75 v 25 PFC CSKA Sofia (BUL)
23. Vitória FC (POR) 50 v 50 SC Heerenveen (NED)
24. Olympique de Marseille (FRA) 70 v 30 FK Mladá Boleslav (CZE)
25. Ĺtvidabergs FF (SWE) 10 v 90 Grasshopper-Club (SUI)
26. AFC Rapid Bucuresti (ROU) 60 v 40 CD Nacional (POR)
27. Trabzonspor (TUR) 35 v 65 CA Osasuna (ESP)
28. FC Basel 1893 (SUI) 70 v 30 FK Rabotnicki (MKD)
29. West Ham United FC (ENG) 45 v 55 US Cittŕ di Palermo (ITA)
30. PFC Lokomotiv Sofia (BUL) 20 v 80 Feyenoord (NED)
31. MFK Ružomberok (SVK) 15 v 85 Club Brugge KV (BEL)
32. FC Sion (SUI) 20 v 80 Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER)
33. FK Partizan (SCG) 70 v 30 FC Groningen (NED)
34. Skoda Xanthi FC (GRE) 30 v 70 FC Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti (ROU)
35. SK Slavia Praha (CZE) 25 v 75 Tottenham Hotspur FC (ENG)
36. IK Start (NOR) 20 v 80 AFC Ajax (NED)
37. FC Artmedia (SVK) 20 v 80 RCD Espanyol (ESP)
38. Wisła Kraków (POL) 55 v 45 Iraklis FC (GRE)
39. AS Livorno Calcio (ITA) 65 v 35 SV Pasching (AUT)
40. NK Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) 50 v 50 AJ Auxerre (FRA)

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: SHEV Date: 27-08-2006, 00:23	I'm not mind of underestimating Chornomorets cause it can surely help them but I wanted to give you interesting information. Choronomorets in their tie considered bigger favourite then Rapid in their by bookmakers. You can check it on betandwin.com which is really popular now

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: eydur_fb Date: 27-08-2006, 09:38	Firstly. I can not understand how one can predict all the game that sure. Do you really know about all those teams? I can only predict about the Turkish teams because I know turkish teams and opponents after analyzing. Here is my prediction, Fenerbahçe 93%-07% Randers FC. AZ Alkmaar 83%-17% Kayserispor Besiktas 76%-24% CSKA Sofia Trabzonspor 24%-76% Osasuna

Author: bjkman1903
Date: 27-08-2006, 11:35

1. FC Chornomorets Odesa (UKR) 47 v 53 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC (ISR)
2. SC Braga (POR) 49 v 51 AC Chievo Verona (ITA)
3. FC Levadia Tallinn (EST) 1 v 99 Newcastle United FC (ENG)
4. Molde FK (NOR) 30 v 70 Rangers FC (SCO)
5. R. Standard de Ličge (BEL) 45 v 55 RC Celta de Vigo (ESP)
6. Maccabi Haifa FC (ISR) 51 v 49 PFC Litex Lovech (BUL)
7. Derry City FC (IRL) 25 v 75 Paris Saint-Germain FC (FRA)
8. Hertha BSC Berlin (GER) 65 v 35 Odense BK (DEN)
9. Legia Warszawa (POL) 47 v 53 FK Austria Wien (AUT)
10. Panathinaikos FC (GRE) 75 v 25 FC Metalurg Zaporizhzhya (UKR)
11. FC Lokomotiv Moskva (RUS) 65 v 35 SV Zulte Waregem (BEL)
12. Heart of Midlothian FC (SCO) 49 v 51 AC Sparta Praha (CZE)
13. Fenerbahçe SK (TUR) 90 v 10 Randers FC (DEN)
14. FC Salzburg (AUT) 50 v 50 Blackburn Rovers FC (ENG)
15. FC Schalke 04 (GER) 60 v 40 AS Nancy-Lorraine (FRA)
16. Ethnikos Achnas FC (CYP) 25 v 75 RC Lens (FRA)
17. FC Slovan Liberec (CZE) 49 v 51 FK Crvena Zvezda (SCG)
18. AZ Alkmaar (NED) 60 v 40 Kayserispor (TUR)
19. FC Rubin Kazan (RUS) 40 v 60 Parma FC (ITA)
20. Eintracht Frankfurt (GER) 45 v 55 Brřndby IF (DEN)
21. Atromitos FC (GRE) 1 v 99 Sevilla FC (ESP)
22. Beşiktaş JK (TUR) 60 v 40 PFC CSKA Sofia (BUL)
23. Vitória FC (POR) 50 v 50 SC Heerenveen (NED)
24. Olympique de Marseille (FRA) 60 v 40 FK Mladá Boleslav (CZE)
25. Ĺtvidabergs FF (SWE) 1 v 99 Grasshopper-Club (SUI)
26. AFC Rapid Bucuresti (ROU) 55 v 45 CD Nacional (POR)
27. Trabzonspor (TUR) 35 v 65 CA Osasuna (ESP)
28. FC Basel 1893 (SUI) 60 v 40 FK Rabotnicki (MKD)
29. West Ham United FC (ENG) 50 v 50 US Cittŕ di Palermo (ITA)
30. PFC Lokomotiv Sofia (BUL) 40 v 60 Feyenoord (NED)
31. MFK Ružomberok (SVK) 35 v 65 Club Brugge KV (BEL)
32. FC Sion (SUI) 40 v 60 Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER)
33. FK Partizan (SCG) 60 v 40 FC Groningen (NED)
34. Skoda Xanthi FC (GRE) 40 v 60 FC Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti (ROU)
35. SK Slavia Praha (CZE) 35 v 65 Tottenham Hotspur FC (ENG)
36. IK Start (NOR) 10 v 90 AFC Ajax (NED)
37. FC Artmedia (SVK) 20 v 80 RCD Espanyol (ESP)
38. Wisła Kraków (POL) 55 v 45 Iraklis FC (GRE)
39. AS Livorno Calcio (ITA) 70 v 30 SV Pasching (AUT)
40. NK Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) 49 v 51 AJ Auxerre (FRA)

Author: vlad-tzepesh
Date: 27-08-2006, 12:35
Edited by: vlad-tzepesh
at: 27-08-2006, 12:36

@Shev
I just checked the odds on bwin.com and I have to say that they were certanly not drawn up by a sober person. Just look at the odds for the outright winner of the UEFA Cup: Dinamo Bucharest has 2580, just like Austria Wien. On the other hand, Rabotnicki, Achnas and Odense have 1000! I honestly don't think that anyone in his right mind can say that Rabotnicki has a much better chance than Austria or Dinamo at lifting the trophy. At the same time, Trabzonspor has 51(!), a better chance in their view than Lens, Parma or Brugge. This is really a huge joke and just goes to show that, at least when it comes to Eastern teams, these people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. I don't think you can be to happy about the odds for the first leg as in most cases they have nothing to do with reality!

Author: SHEV
Date: 27-08-2006, 12:45

UEFA Cup winner odds over 100.00 is always look like random cause noone really bet and they do not research it at all.

My personal view is that Chornomorets have much better chances then Rapid. Your view is that Rapid have better chances. What makes you think that you are right and I'm not? Bwin consider chances are almost equal.

And if you think they underestimate eastern european teams why you think they only underestimate Rapid. Chornomorets is more eastern team.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Malko Date: 27-08-2006, 13:43	FC Schalke 04 64.960 AS Nancy-Lorraine 16.757 48.203 the best way to show these coefficients do not say anything because the country-coefficient is underestimated. nancy is in my opinion slightly favorite vs Schalke because of the better championship (France vs germany) and having won a national Cup......

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: TITAN Date: 27-08-2006, 13:52	No, a percent of the country coefficient is included. I think the Bundesliga is better than the Premiere Division. In French you have Lyon, maybe Lille, and many UEFA cup teams. In Germany there are Bayern, Werder, Hamburg, Schalke, Leverkusen, Dortmund. And Nancy are far too unexperienced to threaten Schalke's position.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 27-08-2006, 14:19	Someone disliking German football? It's Malko!!! (And I say that with affection, not seen him post for ages) Nancy are not as good as Schalke. But then anything can happen I guess. And the French/German leagues are on a similar par. Both just below the Scottish First Division (obviously).

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Ricardo Date: 27-08-2006, 14:32	I just stated in the Romania 5th topic that both France and Germany have good draw, Germany actually even a bit better. The Nancy-Schalke game for me has a clear winner - a top German team aganist a medium French team

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 27-08-2006, 14:50

Let's join the game

Maccabi Haifa FC 45-55 PFC Litex Lovech
FC Slovan Liberec 48-52 FK Crvena Zvezda
SC Braga 40-60 AC Chievo Verona
SK Slavia Praha 40-60 Tottenham Hotspur FC
Brondby IF 52-48 Eintracht Frankfurt
West Ham United FC 45-55 US Citta di Palermo
Skoda Xanthi FC 40-60 FC Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti
Legia Warszawa 48-52 FK Austria Wien
Besiktas JK 55-45 PFC CSKA Sofia
Vitoria FC Setubal 45-55 SC Heerenveen
AFC Rapid Bucuresti 55-45 CD Nacional
FK Partizan Beograd 60-40 FC Groningen Netherlands
AC Sparta Praha 60-40Heart of Midlothian FC
Wisla Krakow 55-45Iraklis FC
Trabzonspor 40-60 CA Osasuna
FC Artmedia Bratislava 35-65 RCD Espanyol
NK Dinamo Zagreb 48-52 AJ Auxerre
R. Standard de Liege 45-55 RC Celta de Vigo
FC Salzburg 48-52 Blackburn Rovers FC
AS Livorno Calcio 55-45 SV Pasching
FC Chornomorets Odesa 45-55 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC
Atvidabergs FF 30-70 Grasshopper-Club Zurich
FC Schalke 04 65-35 AS Nancy-Lorraine France
Fenerbahce SK 65-35 Randers FC
FC Lokomotiv Moskva 65-35 SV Zulte Waregem
Molde FK 30-70 Rangers FC
Olympique de Marseille 60-40 FK Mlada Boleslav
Hertha BSC Berlin 60-40 Odense BK
AZ Alkmaar 58-42 Kayserispor
Atromitos FC 20-80 Sevilla FC
FC Rubin Kazan 42-58 Parma FC
Panathinaikos FC 60-40 FC Metalurh Zaporizhya
Feyenoord 65-35 PFC Lokomotiv Sofia
FC Sion 35-65 Bayer 04 Leverkusen
Ethnikos Achnas FC 25-75 RC Lens France
MFK Ruzomberok 30-70 Club Brugge KV
IK Start 25-75 AFC Ajax Amsterdam
Derry City FC 20-80 Paris Saint-Germain FC
FC Basel 1893 75-25 FK Rabotnicki Macedonia
FC Levadia Tallinn 10-90Newcastle United FC

This is totally subjective and 100% based on gut feelings

Author: Malko
Date: 27-08-2006, 15:23

Ricardo, a middle team of Ligue1 ist to compare with a topteam in Bundesliga. (See the direct confrontations the last years...)

Titan,Bundesliga maybe have 3 or 4 teams having the level of ligue1, premiera Division or serie a or premiere League...but the rest is obviously not the same level than french league 1.

I see nancy slightliy in advantage from schalke 04 that in fact is very weak at home in its own stadium

Author: vlad-tzepesh
Date: 27-08-2006, 16:10

I wasn't saying that bwin underestimates eastern teams, they just do not have a clear picture of the strength of these teams. As regards Rapid, I think they have about 70% chances because Nacional is a mediocre and inexperienced team. I have no idea about Chornomorets' strength and I would give them about 50% chances of reaching the group stage, not because I consider them a good team, but due to the fact that I regard Israeli teams as being quite weak in general.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: SHEV Date: 27-08-2006, 16:47	How you can give any chances if you don't know nothing about teams concerned? That's main reason why I'm not taking part in any prediction and not shaming myself like most of you do.

Author: vlad-tzepesh
Date: 27-08-2006, 17:00

I'm not giving any predictions either, precisely because I don't know too much about the present strength of most teams. With Chornomorets I am just trying to asses the level of a subtop Ukranian club based on the results they've had recently. Given the fact that I consider the Ukranian championship stronger than the Israeli one, I would say that an unseeded UEFA Cup team from Ukraine which got Hapoel as an opponent has about equal chances of going through. Of course the outcome of the two matches could well prove me wrong.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Giuseppe Date: 27-08-2006, 17:17	I feel so ashamed Of course if I'd give Chernomorets 90% chances and Dinamo and Rapid 10% I'd be a lot closer to reality As I said there's nothing scientific in those figures, it's only based on gut feelings (and a little bit on badger's numbers) Then again why should I explain myself to anyone?

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: SHEV Date: 27-08-2006, 17:45	Some people need to explain their thoughts even in the court because of theirs long tongues

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Giuseppe Date: 27-08-2006, 18:01	I wish I knew what that means... especially the 'long tongues' part. What do you mean by that?

Author: cska
Date: 27-08-2006, 18:41

Hi all there,
Above, I saw a post that challenged predicting on ties with teams which you don't know well and then the poster only gave forecasts on ties with teams he knows. As he is a Turk, he predicted about Turkish teams and their matches.
I agree that it is hard to use just numbers of coeffs and gut feelings in order to give forecasts.
Also, remember that there is a coefficient to estimate the long-term strength and experience of a club, but there is no number to assess its current form. So, even a top-seed in a poor form can lose to bottom-seed in optimal form.
Now, I am only giving my view on ties with the Bulgarian teams.
1. Beshiktash - CSKA Sofia - CSKA are excellent in domestic league (beating the UC seeded Litex Lovech 1-0 away), but are really strange in UC ties. If they finally show consistent playing, they can win versus Beshiktash, which has a gradually decreasing form over the last 2 years. However, the Turks are not like Dinamo Tirana and Hajduk Kula and CSKA must avoid this suicidal way of playing in Europe - waiting the opponent to beat himself instead of trying to do something reasonable.
My initial view is 50-50, but let's see the first leg in Istanbul and then we'll have a better view on Beshiktash form and CSKA struggle to improve.
2. Litex - Maccabi Haifa - at least the home game of Maccabi will be far away from Haifa. Loko Sofia already eliminated an Israeli team and I thimk Litex can do the same. It's true that Maccabi played very well against Liverpool, but both the motivation and the way of playing of Litex is different and we have our chances (I say "different", not "stronger", of course).
For me, it's 65-35, at least because we have a home and a neutral ground matches.
3. Loko Sofia - Feyenoord
It's interesting. Rapid Bucharest are famous as the Railway team in Romania. Lokomotiv Sofia are the Railway team in Bulgaria. Last year Rapid eliminated Feyenoord. I can only hope (but only "hope", not "be sure, or predict, etc.") that Loko can repeat the wonder of Rapid.
In my view, it's 35-65 for Feyenoord.

By the way, Bert, Ricardo, Forza-AZ, etc., what's going on with Dutch teams this year ???
Ajax lost almost won tie versus Coppenhagen. Twente was eliminated by Estonian team (??????).
In the time, when all top 10 countries scored 1, 2 or 3 pts, the Dutch teams are still at below 1... You lost a CL team and you lost a UC team... What's going on indeed ?
And, by the way, I was deeply disappointed by Ajax. They are my favourite West European team and lost to the Danes. And more, that made CSKA Sofia unseeded in R1. Boo !

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: spartaan Date: 27-08-2006, 19:16	It would be a bad year for Holland.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: bjkman1903 Date: 27-08-2006, 20:02	@ cska Today's Besiktas is different from the two last years..You'll see it in the first leg Good luck to all teams

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Overgame Date: 27-08-2006, 20:17	1 year ago, steaua was eliminated by Rosenborg. 6 months later, Romania scored more than 16 points ......

Author: cska
Date: 27-08-2006, 20:17

@bjkman1903
I know that your nickname means "Besiktas JK man 1903" (I saw your presentation on the other forum). So, I respect you and your beloved team.
Also, it's obvious what my nickname means - yes, I'm a fan of CSKA Sofia. And I can tell you the same - CSKA is not the same team as it was 1-2 years ago. Only I'm not sure whether "not the same" would mean "better" or "worse"...
I only hope that CSKA will quickly change their poor playing in attack, because their deffense seems to be OK.
Even in this moment, they are still only 1-0 ahead to the bottom team Spartak Varna in the domestic league.
I can only hope that CSKA can eliminate Besiktas, because the team is in crisis now and the form dropped down dramatically.
Good luck to the Turkish teams as well, but let the better of Besiktas and CSKA win ! (I'll be happy if "better" would mean "CSKA")

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: bjkman1903 Date: 27-08-2006, 23:42	@ cska You're right, good luck to the two teams (I like Bulgarian teams, that's bad we have to play against them )

Author: antonio62tr
Date: 28-08-2006, 10:10

I want to write about Turkish teams

1-Besiktas-CSKA 75-25 Besiktas is favourite offcourse. they have the best squad in Turkish teams. very good attacking force but their goalkeeper sucks. also defenders are not too good. first game is in Istanbul and i think its a big advantage for them...

2-Fenerbahce-FC Randers 70-30 Fener has also good squad too but very very very bad coach, Zico...he was fired from Japan and dont know anything about European football...trying stupid things...but team has very good guns and score lots of goals with different styles...

3-Kayserispor-AZ Alkmaar 30-70 very bad draw for Kayseri.they are the best fitted team.and playing good team play.also have good striker Gokhan.but Az is very good team and second at Dutch league last year.this year Dutch teams seems very bad so everyone expecting a suprise from this match..

4-Trabzon-Osasuna ??-?? Trabzon is similar with Fenerbahce. they dont have striker but 6 scorer midfielder. also very bad coach and bad defence. there is not too much expectaions fromthis draw but Trabzon is experienced on making suprises!!(also for bad results!!)

Author: Ricardo
Date: 28-08-2006, 10:51

What's going on with the Dutch teams? let's wait some more matches to find out. Indeed there is a terrible start of the season. Somehow many teams lack goal-making strikers:
PSV lost (again) 2 valuable players: Ooijer and Vennegoor without having the money to buy a great one in return. They have to buy intermediate and hope it will become a good one. I don't expect much of Koeman, he can not make the players better, like Hiddink did. Depending on the replacement-striker I think Bordeaux and Galatasaray can end up above or under PSV.
Ajax is a young team, very depenend on Huntelaar. One match they can play great, the other the lose at home 0-2. Good coach - ten Cate. Start should not be a problem(but neither should have been Kopenhavn after a 1-2 away win!)
Feijenoord lost their 2 strikers Kalou&Kuijt and are still in financial trouble - no CL already for lots of years - discussion if a replacement will be bought or not. Without they might very well lose again in UC-R1!! Koeman as coach is OK, but not great.
AZ lost a lot of keyplayers (Timmer, Perez, Mathijssen, Landzaat, ...) they still seem to be ok. van Gaal is a good coach who can make soemthing out of it!
Heerenveen keeps being a surprise. They lose every now and then their r best players(Huntelaar last season), but keep on performing well. That's due to a good spirit and coach. R1 will be hard but even. It might end up to a 0-0 and a 1-0 for 1 of the teams
Groningen too have a great coach and so the correct spirit. They will surprise teams when they get the chance. They have improved their team and so can get to the groupstage if they manage to get out of Belgrade withtout a large defeat.
How Twente could have lost from Talinn I don't understand. They managed to win from PSV yesterday, though that says more about PSV than Twente maybe.

So what happened to the Dutch teams? money problems mostly. Despite playing CL for the last 10 years, PSV spends too much money every year. They will try to bring it down a bit. Ajax invested in getting to the CL - they failed so will have some troubles next year! Feijenoord has already a long term financial problem - buying intermediate players that end up to be bad. And if the Dutch top-3 has financial problems, the teams below don't sell their players and also have money problems..

But I think we should only talk of a Dutch problem if only 1 or 2 teams would get to the UC-groupstage.

Author: cska
Date: 28-08-2006, 11:21

Ricardo,
I also was very perplexed to see what's happening to Dutch teams.
I like very much Ajax and Feyenoord is also a team that I like very much (pity that they were drawn versus Loko Sofia).
Twente really lost shockingly to Estonian team, but they scored 1-1 at home and 0-1 away. If it were 1 bad result, OK it's just accident, but 2 consecutive bad results... This rings the bell.
Ajax really amazed me how they can lose a 90% sure GS spot.
Heerenveen was doing well last year, but I saw their match versus Levski and they really were lucky because Levski had already qualified as 2nd in group and were not 100% motivated to win because they still would be 2nd. Heerenveen also lost 1-3 to Steaua at home and 1-0 away was only a consolation victory.
Feyenoord lost to Rapid. If they lose this year again to Eastern team (I hope for that, because Lokomotiv is a Bulgarian team), then they will fall into disastrous situation.
I really don't know which team except Ajax could be predicted as big point earner for Holland this season.
I'm very disappointed. And for a country struggling to be in top6 this is very disappointing.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 28-08-2006, 12:50

AZ is a team that really should go to the groupstages. Kayserispor will not be easy, but once there they surely will go to round 3
Groningen will first have to get to the groupstages. But then at home they are really good and will surely win at least 1 of the 2 home matches.
Ajax only by their name already scares their opponent. With Start they will have a 'easy' way to the groupstage and so a month or 2 to grow a bit.
Heerenveen did last year good against CSKA (0-0) and also agasint Marseille(0-1 loss due to unnecessary penalty in last minute), but are a team that is on the border of getting through/not getting through the groupstage. They managed last 2 years, but both times with a lot of luck.
With bad luck Holland will only have a coefficient of 3.5 with luck we'll have 7.5. Ofcourse everything can still change - good players can be bought, players can suddenly become fantastic,

Author: alexx
Date: 28-08-2006, 21:57

Maccabi Haifa FC 45-55 PFC Litex Lovech
FC Slovan Liberec 47-53 FK Crvena Zvezda
SC Braga 43-57 AC Chievo Verona
SK Slavia Praha 38-62 Tottenham Hotspur FC
Brondby IF 48-52 Eintracht Frankfurt
West Ham United FC 52-48 US Citta di Palermo
Skoda Xanthi FC 39-61 FC Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti
Legia Warszawa 51-49 FK Austria Wien
Besiktas JK 55-45 PFC CSKA Sofia
Vitoria FC Setubal 48-52 SC Heerenveen
AFC Rapid Bucuresti 55-45 CD Nacional
FK Partizan Beograd 59-41 FC Groningen Netherlands
AC Sparta Praha 54-46 Heart of Midlothian FC
Wisla Krakow 53-47 Iraklis FC
Trabzonspor 41-59 CA Osasuna
FC Artmedia Bratislava 36-64 RCD Espanyol
NK Dinamo Zagreb 44-56 AJ Auxerre
R. Standard de Liege 46-54 RC Celta de Vigo
FC Salzburg 40-60 Blackburn Rovers FC
AS Livorno Calcio 60-40 SV Pasching
FC Chornomorets Odesa 47-53 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC
Atvidabergs FF 42-58 Grasshopper-Club Zurich
FC Schalke 04 61-39 AS Nancy-Lorraine France
Fenerbahce SK 66-34 Randers FC
FC Lokomotiv Moskva 65-35 SV Zulte Waregem
Molde FK 32-68 Rangers FC
Olympique de Marseille 60-40 FK Mlada Boleslav
Hertha BSC Berlin 60-40 Odense BK
AZ Alkmaar 55-45 Kayserispor
Atromitos FC 19-81 Sevilla FC
FC Rubin Kazan 43-57Parma FC
Panathinaikos FC 58-42 FC Metalurh Zaporizhya
Feyenoord 58-42 PFC Lokomotiv Sofia
FC Sion 37-63 Bayer 04 Leverkusen
Ethnikos Achnas FC 28-72 RC Lens France
MFK Ruzomberok 47-53 Club Brugge KV
IK Start 33-67 AFC Ajax Amsterdam
Derry City FC 26-74 Paris Saint-Germain FC
FC Basel 1893 80-20FK Rabotnicki Macedonia
FC Levadia Tallinn 5-95 Newcastle United FC

Author: drvasko98
Date: 29-08-2006, 18:54
Edited by: drvasko98
at: 29-08-2006, 19:15

01. Chornomorets Odesa (UKR) 51 v 49 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC (ISR)
02. SC Braga (POR) 40 v 60 Chievo Verona (ITA)
03. Levadia Tallinn (EST) 5 v 95 Newcastle United FC (ENG)
04. Molde FK (NOR) 10 v 90 Rangers (SCO)
05. R. Standard de Ličge (BEL) 25 v 75 RC Celta de Vigo (ESP)
06. Maccabi Haifa FC (ISR) 45 v 55 Litex Lovech (BUL)
07. Derry City FC (IRL) 7 v 93 Paris SG (FRA)
08. Hertha BSC Berlin (GER) 68 v 32 Odense BK (DEN)
09. Legia Warszawa (POL) 51 v 49 Austria (AUT)
10. Panathinaikos FC (GRE) 85 v 15 Metalurg Zaporizhzhya (UKR)
11. FC Lokomotiv Moskva (RUS) 80 v 20 Zulte Waregem (BEL)
12. Heart of Midlothian FC (SCO) 51 v 49 Sparta Praha (CZE)
13. Fenerbahçe SK (TUR) 75 v 25 Randers FC (DEN)
14. FC Salzburg (AUT) 49 v 51 Blackburn Rovers FC (ENG)
15. FC Schalke 04 (GER) 70 v 30 AS Nancy-Lorraine (FRA)
16. Ethnikos Achnas FC (CYP) 1 v 99 Lens (FRA)
17. FC Slovan Liberec (CZE) 55 v 45 Crvena Zvezda (SCG)
18. AZ Alkmaar (NED) 67 v 33 Kayserispor (TUR)
19. FC Rubin Kazan (RUS) 45 v 55 Parma FC (ITA)
20. Eintracht Frankfurt (GER) 35 v 65 Brřndby IF (DEN)
21. Atromitos FC (GRE) 1 v 99 Sevilla FC (ESP, holders)
22. Besiktas (TUR) 55 v 45 CSKA Sofia (BUL)
23. Vitória FC (POR) 40 v 60 SC Heerenveen (NED)
24. Olympique de Marseille (FRA) 55 v 45 FK Mladá Boleslav (CZE)
25. Ĺtvidabergs FF (SWE) 1 v 99 Grasshopper-Club (SUI)
26. AFC Rapid Bucuresti (ROU) 49 v 51 CD Nacional (POR)
27. Trabzonspor (TUR) 38 v 62 CA Osasuna (ESP)
28. FC Basel 1893 (SUI) 62 v 38 FK Rabotnicki (MKD)
29. West Ham United FC (ENG) 40 v 60 US Cittŕ di Palermo (ITA)
30. Lokomotiv Sofia (BUL) 33 v 67 Feyenoord (NED)
31. Ru?omberok (SVK) 20 v 80 Club Brugge KV (BEL)
32. FC Sion (SUI) 42 v 58 Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER)
33. Partizan (SCG) 41 v 59 FC Groningen (NED)
34. Skoda Xanthi FC (GRE) 48 v 52 Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti (ROU)
35. Slavia Praha (CZE) 35 v 65 Tottenham Hotspur FC (ENG)
36. IK Start (NOR) 22 v 78 Ajax (NED)
37. FC Artmedia (SVK) 12 v 88 RCD Espanyol (ESP)
38. Wisla (POL) 53 v 47 Iraklis (GRE)
39. Livorno Calcio (ITA) 55 v 45 SV Pasching (AUT)
40. Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) 51 v 49 AJ Auxerre (FRA)

And some words for our teams. CSKA seems like outsider aggainst Beshiktash and this fact is their main advantage, I dont joke. One historical view show that great successes for this team is exactly in absolutely outsider role. I think they will play very close in first game and will be very hard for Beshiktash to score. For me this match will be similar like Litex-CSKA(my opinion it was the best match for CSKA in last 2-3 years) not like Haiduk - CSKA. My feeling say CSKA will enter in GS. It will be same for Litex, but they sold(will sell every moment) their best(only) striker Novakovich and their progress is now very suspective. LokoSf play better and better and Feyenord is in crizis but ther is still a serious gap between Bulgarian and Netherlands clubs from same level. With losing the home advantage in 2nd leg Loko chances stay minimal. We hope for 2 teams in GS UC to keep our place in top 15. And great luck for Rabotnichki, Hearts and Zvezda

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: saras21 Date: 30-08-2006, 22:53	If Haifa and Hapoel TA would play in Israel I have no doubt that they will go through their opponents. Haifa is a better team than Litex, that's what Emil Velev said.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: bojidar Date: 13-09-2006, 15:11	makabi haifa-litex lovech 0-1 lokomotiv sofia-feyenord 2-1 besiktash-cska sofia 0-2

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 13-09-2006, 17:07	Is anyone else half expecting Rubin to beat Parma?

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 13-09-2006, 17:35	i've predicted Parma to go through on the basis that the worse they become in the league, the more they seem to scrap through in the Cups.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: badgerboy Date: 13-09-2006, 17:45 Edited by: badgerboy at: 13-09-2006, 17:46	Of 66 people surveyed 15 expect Rubin Kazan to progress over the two legs - and I'm one of them. So you're not the only one... Speaking of predictions - MichaelCollins you didn't enter Lyonnais' game this year...

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Floridian Date: 13-09-2006, 23:17	Rubin is also a team with unstable performance, which can suddenly come back after a spell of mediocre to horrible matches. Count me in for Rubin's win tomorrow.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 14-09-2006, 00:18	I'm never sure about Parma, and Rubin are really hit and miss in the league. On their day, they can beat CSKA comfortably, or lose to mediocre teams with a whimper. Its a real 50/50 tie Dinamo Zagreb v Auxerre is another intruiging one

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: antonio62tr Date: 14-09-2006, 09:09	Trabzon changed their coach and from now on they are my favourite against Osasuna...they played incredible against Besiktas at weekend...Gokdeniz rulez...

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 14-09-2006, 10:57
Edited by: Lyonnais
at: 14-09-2006, 10:59

Comments about French teams:

Marseille play Mlada Bodeslav.

Marseille are currently leaders of the Ligue 1 with a good win at Paris (3-1) last week-end. It looks like that they finally found the stability they needed. Although the coach will rest some players, I presume that OM objectively is favourite for qualification.

Paris SG play Derry City.

Paris is disappointing again in the Ligue 1. 3 defeats out of 5 games, this is not serious. Difficult to understand why whereas the recruitment looked like OK.
I know that Irish football improved a lot, but I cannot really expect Paris not to get through. This would generate another big crisis in the capitale again.

Lens play Achnas.

Lens has not been very consistent these last months. Sometimes they show some good football, sometimes they totally miss their games. So difficult to anticipate which side they will show, but although going to Cyprus is not such a big pleasure, I would be extremely surprised and disappointed if Lens didn't get though.

Auxerre play Dinamo Zagreb.

Difficult start of the season for Auxerre who lost some key players and the new players need some time for adaptation. They however won an important game last week-end vs. Monaco and this should help them working with more serenity.
Will it be enough before playing Dinamo Zagreb, a regular European team? Not sure. I tend to believe that Dinamo is much better than what was showed vs. Arsenal. It will be tight and difficult for Auxerre.

Nancy play Schalke

Nancy is a nice improving team. Promoted to Ligue 1 2 years ago, winner of the Coupe de la Ligue last year and currently third of the French League. Very good time spirit and discipline, tactically well organized, etc; typically a good L1 team.

Will it be enough to threaten a mountain like Schalke ? maybe not. Nancy are not experienced at all at that level and this could make the difference. Bad luck for Nancy, who are playing in Europe for the first time since 1978 with Platini, to get such a difficult draw.

Author: mioke
Date: 14-09-2006, 11:02

01. Chornomorets Odesa (UKR) 50 v 50 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC (ISR)
02. SC Braga (POR) 35 v 65 Chievo Verona (ITA)
03. Levadia Tallinn (EST) 1 v 99 Newcastle United FC (ENG)
04. Molde FK (NOR) 20 v 80 Rangers (SCO)
05. R. Standard de Ličge (BEL) 35 v 65 RC Celta de Vigo (ESP)
06. Maccabi Haifa FC (ISR) 50 v 50 Litex Lovech (BUL)
07. Derry City FC (IRL) 1 v 99 Paris SG (FRA)
08. Hertha BSC Berlin (GER) 75 v 25 Odense BK (DEN)
09. Legia Warszawa (POL) 50 v 50 Austria (AUT)
10. Panathinaikos FC (GRE) 70 v 30 Metalurg Zaporizhzhya (UKR)
11. FC Lokomotiv Moskva (RUS) 90 v 10 Zulte Waregem (BEL)
12. Heart of Midlothian FC (SCO) 60 v 40 Sparta Praha (CZE)
13. Fenerbahçe SK (TUR) 80 v 20 Randers FC (DEN)
14. FC Salzburg (AUT) 35 v 75 Blackburn Rovers FC (ENG)
15. FC Schalke 04 (GER) 60 v 40 AS Nancy-Lorraine (FRA)
16. Ethnikos Achnas FC (CYP) 10 v 90 Lens (FRA)
17. FC Slovan Liberec (CZE) 35 v 65 Crvena Zvezda (SCG)
18. AZ Alkmaar (NED) 70 v 30 Kayserispor (TUR)
19. FC Rubin Kazan (RUS) 25 v 75 Parma FC (ITA)
20. Eintracht Frankfurt (GER) 65 v 35 Brřndby IF (DEN)
21. Atromitos FC (GRE) 5 v 95 Sevilla FC (ESP, holders)
22. Besiktas (TUR) 51 v 49 CSKA Sofia (BUL)
23. Vitória FC (POR) 45 v 55 SC Heerenveen (NED)
24. Olympique de Marseille (FRA) 70 v 30 FK Mladá Boleslav (CZE)
25. Ĺtvidabergs FF (SWE) 15 v 85 Grasshopper-Club (SUI)
26. AFC Rapid Bucuresti (ROU) 65 v 35 CD Nacional (POR)
27. Trabzonspor (TUR) 35 v 65 CA Osasuna (ESP)
28. FC Basel 1893 (SUI) 80 v 20 FK Rabotnicki (MKD)
29. West Ham United FC (ENG) 55 v 45 US Cittŕ di Palermo (ITA)
30. Lokomotiv Sofia (BUL) 40 v 60 Feyenoord (NED)
31. Ru?omberok (SVK) 30 v 70 Club Brugge KV (BEL)
32. FC Sion (SUI) 35 v 65 Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER)
33. Partizan (SCG) 55 v 45 FC Groningen (NED)
34. Skoda Xanthi FC (GRE) 30 v 70 Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti (ROU)
35. Slavia Praha (CZE) 35 v 65 Tottenham Hotspur FC (ENG)
36. IK Start (NOR) 10 v 90 Ajax (NED)
37. FC Artmedia (SVK) 40 v 60 RCD Espanyol (ESP)
38. Wisla (POL) 60 v 40 Iraklis (GRE)
39. Livorno Calcio (ITA) 65 v 35 SV Pasching (AUT)
40. Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) 40 v 60 AJ Auxerre (FRA)

Author: sr_sofisticacao
Date: 14-09-2006, 12:56

Brief comments on Portuguese teams:
I'm not optimistic.
These teams have had some important changes and not for the best. The season in Portugal starts later than in most countries so these average teams are not prepared as the big ones, mostly because they do not have the habit of participating. At least not for long.

Individually:

Sp. Braga - The strongest of the 3 has the difficult task of playing Italians (Portuguese teams' nemesis) Chievo. If it was last year I would have said that Braga has some chances, despite their coach (current FC Porto coach, Ferreira) is inept at 2 leg matches. But the worst of all is that new coach Carvalhal is even more inept, but not only at 2 leg matches as to ANYTHING football related. He must have some hell of a group of "friends in high places", because every team he touches turns to... well, crap! They are one of the two teams who got the best transfers this year, but their coach is lousy. So I don't expect much from them. The raw material is there, but the brains behind it are not.
40-60 to Chievo

Nacional - One of my most detested teams in Portugal has been very consistent these last years (due to my tax money, but that's another story). Contrary to Braga, they have been very wise in terms of hiring coaches. This one is no exception. Carlos Brito has made a name for himself with teams with no stars, but good overall performances. Last year he failed to bring back Boavista to the Eurocups and that's a shadow that must haunt him. This year, he was given a try at one club he lost the race to the Eurocups with (the one being Setúbal, who beat them in the semifinals of the cup). Nacional is a team with many Brazilian players and where (at least last year), defensive cohesion was the law. It's well organized and has some good players that might turn the match at some point. Rapid is the adversary and it might be a tight one if the optimism of Romanian supporters is acurate. If not, I expect Nacional to pass.
55-45 to Nacional

V. Setúbal - Former European overachievers (in the 60s) Setúbal have been in Europe via the Cup (one win and last year finalists) twice in a row. They are in a very difficult financial situation and their team is a mix of borrowed players as favours from big teams and some random newcomers. The coach is a former club player that is a symbol to the club... but not very experient. The weakest Portuguese team this year to play in the Eurocups got (probably) the easiest job. But I am not confident. Last year, a difficult draw (against Sampdoria, I think?) prevented them to do a bit better in the part of the season they were stronger (before financial disarray started tearing the club apart and made lots of key players and the coach to leave).
40-60 to Heerenveen

Author: bigriazor
Date: 14-09-2006, 13:02

@sofisticacao
That is nice but it's very very very subjective.nacional favourite against rapid?what do you base that on.a euro regular and last year quarterfinalist(rapid) against a team that plays UEFA cup once every 3-4 years (they were in div 2 some years ago no?).Hereenveen i think has more chances against Setubal maybe 70-30 they are also a euro regular and played UEFA cup 1/16 last two seasons.

Author: Francisco
Date: 14-09-2006, 13:50

Another portuguese here.

I just want to say I disagree with Nacional's assumption made by Sr. Sofisticaçăo. I think this team took a turn for worse this year. Last year they had a great coach and some very good players. This year is clear that the coach (Brito) although still good is not as good as Manuel Machado (last year's coach, that finished the last 2 seasons in 5th: 1st with Guimarăes and last year with Nacional), and some key players from last seasons have been leaving the team, and their start this season has not been very good (they lost the 2 games they did).

Of all 3 teams if any is any good this year that's Braga, but unfortunately they have 2 bad things going on for them: really bad coach (at least until now, he just knows how to destroy good teams) and the hardest opponent of the 3: Chievo being an Italian team will be an hard task for Braga.

Setúbal would be an easy team for anyone this year, so Heerenveen probably got a bye for the group stage...

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 14-09-2006, 16:12	Parma are playing really dirty here, cynical fouls, just about hanging on, deserve to be about 2 down

Author: MichaelCollins
Date: 14-09-2006, 16:25

MY FIRST ROUND PREDICTIONS

01. Chornomorets Odesa (UKR) 30 v 70 Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC (ISR)
CHERNOMORETS
02. SC Braga (POR) 40 v 60 Chievo Verona (ITA)
CHIEVO
03. Levadia Tallinn (EST) 10 v 90 Newcastle United FC (ENG)
NEWCASTLE
04. Molde FK (NOR) 20 v 80 Rangers (SCO)
RANGERS
05. R. Standard de Ličge (BEL) 35 v 65 RC Celta de Vigo (ESP)
VIGO
06. Maccabi Haifa FC (ISR) 55 v 45 Litex Lovech (BUL)
LOVECH
07. Derry City FC (IRL) 5 v 95 Paris SG (FRA)
pSG
08. Hertha BSC Berlin (GER) 70 v 30 Odense BK (DEN)
ODENSE
09. Legia Warszawa (POL) 30 v 70 Austria (AUT)
AUSTRIA
10. Panathinaikos FC (GRE) 90 v 10 Metalurg Zaporizhzhya (UKR)
PANATHANAIKOS
11. FC Lokomotiv Moskva (RUS) 75 v 25 Zulte Waregem (BEL)
LOKO
12. Heart of Midlothian FC (SCO) 30 v 70 Sparta Praha (CZE)
HEARTS
13. Fenerbahçe SK (TUR) 85 v 15 Randers FC (DEN)
FENER
14. FC Salzburg (AUT) 45 v 55 Blackburn Rovers FC (ENG)
SALZBURG
15. FC Schalke 04 (GER) 60 v 40 AS Nancy-Lorraine (FRA)
SCHALKE
16. Ethnikos Achnas FC (CYP) 35 v 65 Lens (FRA)
LENS
17. FC Slovan Liberec (CZE) 49 v 51 Crvena Zvezda (SCG)
SLOVAN
18. AZ Alkmaar (NED) 55 v 45 Kayserispor (TUR)
AZ
19. FC Rubin Kazan (RUS) 35 v 65 Parma FC (ITA)
PARMA
20. Eintracht Frankfurt (GER) 55 v 45 Brřndby IF (DEN)
FRANKFURT
21. Atromitos FC (GRE) 3 v 97 Sevilla FC (ESP, holders)
SEVILLA
22. Besiktas (TUR) 70 v 30 CSKA Sofia (BUL)
SOFIA
23. Vitória FC (POR) 49 v 51 SC Heerenveen (NED)
HEERENVEEN
24. Olympique de Marseille (FRA) 60 v 40 FK Mladá Boleslav (CZE)
MARSIELLE
25. Ĺtvidabergs FF (SWE) 20 v 80 Grasshopper-Club (SUI)
GRASSHOPPERS
26. AFC Rapid Bucuresti (ROU) 60 v 40 CD Nacional (POR)
RAPID
27. Trabzonspor (TUR) 50 v 50 CA Osasuna (ESP)
TRABZONSPOR
28. FC Basel 1893 (SUI) 85 v 15 FK Rabotnicki (MKD)
BASEL
29. West Ham United FC (ENG) 51 v 49 US Cittŕ di Palermo (ITA)
WEST HAM
30. Lokomotiv Sofia (BUL) 35 v 65 Feyenoord (NED)
LOKOMOTIV SOFIA
31. Ru?omberok (SVK) 10 v 90 Club Brugge KV (BEL)
BRUGGE
32. FC Sion (SUI) 15 v 85 Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER)
LEVERKUSEN
33. Partizan (SCG) 65 v 35 FC Groningen (NED)
GRONINGEN
34. Skoda Xanthi FC (GRE) 40 v 60 Dinamo 1948 Bucuresti (ROU)
DINAMO
35. Slavia Praha (CZE) 45 v 55 Tottenham Hotspur FC (ENG)
SPURS
36. IK Start (NOR) 5 v 95 Ajax (NED)
Ajax
37. FC Artmedia (SVK) 35 v 65 RCD Espanyol (ESP)
ESPANYOL
38. Wisla (POL) 50 v 50 Iraklis (GRE)
WISLA
39. Livorno Calcio (ITA) 45 v 55 SV Pasching (AUT)
LIVORNO
40. Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) 40 v 60 AJ Auxerre (FRA)
AUXERRE

Ive said hwo i feel will win the tie, though in some cases I wish it was opposite.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Knallie Date: 14-09-2006, 17:08	0-1 Parma '79 Thank you Parma! :D

Author: neill
Date: 14-09-2006, 17:09
Edited by: neill
at: 14-09-2006, 17:11

Much like when we (Hearts) played AEK Athens many on this forum think Hearts have a good chance of winning their tie. Is this because Sparta Prague are seen to be vulnerable or do people think Hearts are a quality team, or somewhere in between?

I ask because I was encouraged before the AEK game by people's predictions here but we were completely outclassed over the two legs and as I prepare to head for Murrayfield tonight I don't want to get my hopes up again.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 14-09-2006, 17:15	Just watching the Rubin - Parma match, utterly ludicrous scoreline, Parma have been dreadful and outplayed throughout, then have one lucky chance in the entire game and score Fair score would be about 3/4-0 to Rubin so far, Parma are extrememly lucky to still be in this

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: antonio62tr Date: 14-09-2006, 17:16	Hertha BSC 0 - 1 OB Odense whats going on there??

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 17:19	thats Parma for you. And Odense have been underestimated in all their ties so far....leaving more fancied sides in their wake.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Knallie Date: 14-09-2006, 17:22	that's ANY italian team. Boring football, always win 1-0...

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 17:26	hey! thats an unfair stereotype and not true at all in quite a few examples. See ROma 4-0 Shakhtar for the most obvious denial of it.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 14-09-2006, 17:28	Yeah, i hope many Italian teams make an early exit from Europe if thats how they are going to play And Parma always do in Europe, terribly unfair scoreline though

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 17:29	As I say any defensive teams should get their commupence sooner than later. ON the flipside, Livorno are lovely attacking side. Surely we want great attacking sides to do well? (Providing they dont end up against our favourites lol!)

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: antonio62tr Date: 14-09-2006, 17:30	This is football so you have to bear it...Parma got what they want...

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 14-09-2006, 17:31 Edited by: Richie at: 14-09-2006, 17:31	Exactly, Livorno and Palermo both play good football, as a neutral i always want the most attacking sides to go through, so i'd like to se them do well. Nothing against Italian football In this case Parma should really be already out, and i hope they get their commupance sooner rather than later after that

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Knallie Date: 14-09-2006, 17:31	Although I don't like italian teams at all, I don;t mind Parma beating our Russian friends, even it it wasn't deserverd! I'm from Holland and I wanna keep 6 teams in Europe! I think for us Russia would be the main target to overtake

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 17:35	Boavista played really defensive in the UEFA CUp Semifinal, dived all over the place as well. got a 1-1 draw at Celtic Park and defended viciously until the 83rd minute in Oporto when Henrik Larsson scored to take Celtic through 2-1 on aggregate. Now that was justice. And the Porto-Celtic game was a good Cup final i thought. shame about the final result.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 14-09-2006, 17:37	I remember tat, Boavista were dreadful t watch, and won a couple of other games against Malaga and others o away goals etc as well. Terrible team to watch

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 17:42	they biased me against Portuguese sides for a year. Although they have some decent attacking sides....well, not evident this week but they have the FIFA thing on thier minds Parma = dull. Livorno, Palermo = exciting. I tell you, that Palermo-West Ham tie could be a classic.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 14-09-2006, 17:43	I hope so, i'll definately be watching that one in a bit, Wes Ham are a very nice footballing side too

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 17:48	Hopefully Tevez and Mascherano will get on the pitch. I'm excited by it....will no doubt end up 0-0 now. Hearts v Sparta is going to be a car crash. As in it wont be 0-0 someone will win 5-1 or something like that and knowing Scotlands recent rise, no doubt Sparta.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: oxtales Date: 14-09-2006, 17:49	It should have been 0-2 instead of 1-1 for Odense here at half time. Odense miss a 110% chance to score a second goal!! /Mark

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 17:54	damn! Come on Denmark!

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 14-09-2006, 17:56	Agree, how many goals did Hertha score in the group stage last year again?

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 18:06	apoel 0-1 hertha (90th minute penalty) hertha 1-0 apoel hertha 0-0 steaua sampdoria 0-0 hertha hertha 0-0 lens halmstads 0-1 hertha (90th minute) hertha berlin 0-3 rapid on aggregate last years UEFA Cup.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 18:08	2-1 hertha.......

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 14-09-2006, 18:09	1-0 Xanthi..

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: antonio62tr Date: 14-09-2006, 18:09 Edited by: antonio62tr at: 14-09-2006, 18:11	Not anymore...Hertha BSC 2 - 2 OB Odense

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 18:12	huzzah for ODense. They have really impressed this year. And they're managed by a Scot! WOOT!

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 18:20	liberic lead crvena zvezda 1-0

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 18:22	xanthi 1-1 dinamo

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 14-09-2006, 18:28	xanthi 1-2 dinamo

Author: sr_sofisticacao
Date: 14-09-2006, 18:47

@bigriazor: It is very subjective as I've never seen Rapid play. But my opinion, nonetheless. I might be completely wrong.
@MichaelCollins: Boavista's coach that year has a rather bad reputation in terms of defensive style even in Portugal. Here most of us think that his teams are just defense and fouls (and the notouriously portuguese^3 waste of time). He did start as a good coach while still playing with a reputation of making everybody work really hard. But somewhere along the line he just stopped innovating and kept it simple with that defense and fouls tactic. He won a League here with Boavista (the first non big 3 champion since 1946).
#Parma: I am so sick and tired of seeing Italians doing that to Portuguese teams, that it really doesn't surprise me. I hope none of them goes to the group phase.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Crash1o6 Date: 14-09-2006, 18:51	xanti 2-3 dinamo half time... verry bad outside referee. Signaled more than 5 verry clear bad offsides for dinamo. should have been 2-5

Author: padoura
Date: 14-09-2006, 19:00
Edited by: padoura
at: 14-09-2006, 19:06

Actually ony two were clearly not offsides. And Xanthi deserved at least one more goal, but again greek teams proved that they can't turn their chances into goals.

in contrast, Dinamo made 3 chances and scored 3 goals... After their 3rd goal, they completely dominated the game, losing two great chances. However, Xanthi was at least lucky enough to score a goal at the 2nd minute of injury time.

Anyway, a very good first half.

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 14-09-2006, 19:03

the referee in xanti - dinamo is TOTAL RETARD 5-6 inexistent ofsides, 2 situations in which the stricker was left 1 vs 1 with the keaper. 1 INCREDIBLE 5 meter in ofsaid and another 3 meter in. there were 3-4 defenders between our striker and the keaper THIS IS BULSHITTTT!!! not to mention 2 yelow cards invented and a minute in minute 45 +3 for xanthi whe the referee said 2 minutes extra time and let 2 side throws after that minute.... WHERE WAS THAT MENTALITY ON VELODROME LAST YEAR ??????????????????

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 14-09-2006, 19:03	and another inexistent ofsaid minute 46 second half INCREDIBLEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: padoura Date: 14-09-2006, 19:09	Wtf are you talking about? They deserved both yellow cards. They protest to the referee for every single whistle and the second card was shown after a very tough tackling.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: padoura Date: 14-09-2006, 19:11 Edited by: padoura at: 14-09-2006, 19:12	Unfortunately, Xanthi's defense is a joke today.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: STK Date: 14-09-2006, 19:12	Hey guys calm down, the reff mistakes and luck are part of the game, and you are aparently both subjective. The best team will qualify after both matches.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: padoura Date: 14-09-2006, 19:22 Edited by: padoura at: 14-09-2006, 19:23	STK is right. And just now 3-3!

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: zanzibar Date: 14-09-2006, 19:33 Edited by: zanzibar at: 14-09-2006, 19:34	besiktas missed a penalty shot vs cska, bjk's attacking, cska's just defending, rare contas, just one side of pitch's being used... its a dangerous game for both... half time 0-0

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: padoura Date: 14-09-2006, 19:42 Edited by: padoura at: 14-09-2006, 19:51	Incredible match! 3-4 after a counterattack of Dinamo while Xanthi was trying to score the winning goal. Edit: Gongratulations to Dinamo. They deserve to qualify.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: STK Date: 14-09-2006, 19:50	Rapid - Nacional 1-0

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: TITAN Date: 14-09-2006, 20:58 Edited by: TITAN at: 14-09-2006, 20:58	What in the world is happening to Feyenoord? Loko Sofia leads 2-0 near halftime. They had problems last year with Rapid, now with Lokomotiv. Two railway teams from Romania and Bulgaria troubled the Dutch giants.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: TzarSamuil Date: 14-09-2006, 21:16	This referee should be ashamed of himself 5 minutes added time of the 1st half.And a fake penalty for Feyenoord in the 6th minute of the added time.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Ricardo Date: 14-09-2006, 21:23	no it was 4 minutes into extra time, but 2-0 would have been a better score. Feyenoord lost it completely, not just Kalou&Kuijt. Years of bad coaches, bad buying, no good own-youth give their result. I seriousle would not be surprised if they would go out again in R1. But that would mean again less money available, so more good people have to leave.... They need an Abramovic!

Author: STK
Date: 14-09-2006, 21:27
Edited by: STK
at: 14-09-2006, 21:36

Sorry Ricardo, Abramovics are only for top 5 countries, or better said top 3, countries with 3-4 CL teams. They do not take risk to invest in countries with 2 CL teams or less, because UEFA is very carefull (and constant) with the first category in guaratee matters.

Take it on the seeding system.

There is also a juridical protection for top 3; they are alloowed to fix few matche from time to time in reciving in exchange only a light penality. The Abramovics think to this kind of stuff before choosing to invest somewhere.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 14-09-2006, 21:43
Edited by: Ricardo
at: 14-09-2006, 21:46

Sofar little surprises: almost all seeded teams won , or drew an away match.
Possible exceptions(not finished matches: Feyenoord (well a 2-1 away loss can be considered good, but there is still some time to play and it does not reflect the strength)
Chievo - away loss against Braga, was possible...
Slavia - but against Tottenham it's no surprise
Wisla - against Iraklis 55' 0-1): genuine surprise

Feyenoord just scored 2-2..

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: besiktask Date: 14-09-2006, 21:51	Besiktas 2-0 CSKA Sofia Both Team played very bad today..But Besiktas wanted for win and CSKA only for draw. Second match is not easy. Sure CSKA is a good team. And Tiago Silva is a great SHOWMAN.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: TzarSamuil Date: 14-09-2006, 21:58	oh my god this norwegian referee doesn't know where he is There was an absolute penalty for Lokomotiv Sofia. Feyenoord are just lucky, the ball hit the post. If Feyenoord plays like this in Holland they will be out.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: gamen4o Date: 14-09-2006, 22:03	The ref made big mistake by showing red card to Petrov. The second was 100 % but the penalty was criminal. I don't think we have chanses in the second leg but i hope we win atleast for coeficient.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: TzarSamuil Date: 14-09-2006, 22:15	I just can't believe Lokomotiv missed 7-8 goals in the last 10 minutes Unbelievable luck for Feyenoord, i really hope they play like this in Holland.I never believed that i can watch such panicked Feyenoord.

Author: cska
Date: 14-09-2006, 22:29

@besiktask
If you call Tiago Silva "showman" to claim that he simulated anything, let me remind you that he was substituted because of injury after which he could hardly walk.
By the way, when Robert Petrov was booked, that was the first foul of CSKA against 8 of Beshiktash (much tougher). In 1st half, 18 fouls by Beshiktash and only 6 by CSKA.
You really played hard. And yes, CSKA played for draw only after Robert Petrov was ridiculously sent off and Tiago Silva was kicked by your players.
Anyway, I hope we win in Sofia. Congrats to Loko Sofia for their match versus Feyenoord. Litex also played well to Maccabi Haifa.
After the results this evening, the battle for 15th spot became harder.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: padoura Date: 14-09-2006, 22:30	Magnificent play from Iraklis. They managed to win 1-0 at a very difficult stadium, even with ten players from 71'!

Author: levski.bg
Date: 14-09-2006, 22:41
Edited by: levski.bg
at: 14-09-2006, 22:43

CSKA play very good to 65 min with Besiktash. After that, they was in colaps. Of course, Besiktash was better team, and they deserve the win, but this referee was....well, I dont want to insult him, but.

Dont get me wrong, I know it is normal to give a little push to the giants and big teams, and Besiktash is euro giant, but this referee was full with one-sided mistakes.

There was absolute fake penalty for Besiktash, but anyway, every person make mistakes...but this more than 10 fouls on the back of CSKA players and no card !? was ...well unfair !

After CSKA's red card (deserved) they colapsed. I am sorry because they play well, but Plamen Markov have nothing to put there. Absolute shitie situation to get red card and injury of the key players in the left..

Congratulation to Litex and Lokomotiv Sofia, Litex make a good result with such club like Macabi and Lokomotiv Sofia is absolute suprise for me, making a very good game with Feyenoord.

Someone say that, Feyenoord is not a giant anymore, but they are still very good team. The difference is very big. They have almost 30 world class pitches, alot of youth teams and many coaches and they will produce world class players, this year or next, this will happen.

Author: bluefan
Date: 14-09-2006, 22:41

Feyenoord so poor team really,they should all buy themselves lottery tickets asap,ridiculous ref. 6 mins added time in the first half and a diving theatre from charisteas is rewarded with a penalty?!? no luck for loko,hit the post,missed many chances,but if they play the same way in the netherlands,they'll win.
about besiktas-ceca- clear dive from the turkish player,he deserved to be booked for it,but no,a penalty given and a card for petrov...funny really! besiktas were very poor,created only 2-3 chances all game but a great luck for them.cska did nothing in attack today anyway,so maybe they should blame themselves. although the ref was not right.
maccabi-litex 1:1-litex much better side of course,should have won this one easily,but no trouble for them in bulgaria if they don't underestimate the israeli team. by the way the "home" team scored from offside,after katan stopped the ball with his hand,but we're used to being fucked up in this kind of situations by the refs

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: bojidar Date: 14-09-2006, 22:55	MAFIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.Penalti for loko sofia not for feyenord,goal at offside for Makabi againts Litex and criminal penalty and red card againts Cska.MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFIIIIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Richie Date: 14-09-2006, 22:57	Very unlucky West Ham, fair score would have been probably 1-0 or 2-1 to WH In fairness to Palermo, they looked a million times betetr than the awful Parma of earlier, who hopefully for the sake of football will be sent packing in the return

Author: bjkman1903
Date: 14-09-2006, 23:09

Good night for Turkish teams..

Fenerbahçe 2-1 Randers : Fener was the better side, they could have win easily 3-1 or 4-1. I don't think that they are in danger, they will go to the group stage with a draw or a win in the second leg.

Trabzonspor 2-2 Osasuna : Trabzon were loosing 0-2, and they came back to 2-2 (Osasuna played with 10 men). Trabzon were bad, and they are very lucky to draw this game, but no chance to go the the GS I think. 3-0 for Osasuna, the second leg.

AZ 3-2 Kayseri : Kayseri is a very good team, they have a good chance to make it, 1-0 in Turkey is enough, and I think it's not impossible

Besiktas 2-0 CSKA Sofia : Well, Besiktas deserved to win. CSKA played only defence, in the whole match they have only 1 shoot in the goal !! The penalty was a mistake by the referee, but we missed it, so it's not very important. The players of CSKA were good actors, one of them hurt himself outside the field, but go the the field to loose time..

Anyway, good luck against Levski

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: TzarSamuil Date: 14-09-2006, 23:12	Well even the referee of the Macabi-Litex match admitted he made a mistake and should have disallowed Macabi's goal.Katan was offside and he handplayed Poor poor refereeing today, i hope it will improve....

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 15-09-2006, 00:14

tell me bout the referee (retoric) i can understand what bulgarian mates are feeling, we had our own "disaster" in xanthi - dinamo, fortunately we scored 4 times so that he couldnt "execute" us, this referee and the 2 asistants were bad intended from the start, 6-10 unexistant ofsides and e etremly pro xanthi vision (mostly in the 1st half), now i am thinking that last years referee in OM - dinamo is quite a nice guy compared to this one.

disaster i say, disaster and total idiot and its stil a compliment

p.s.

tell me how can u say its ofsaid when 4 (yes 4) defenders are between the striker and the keaper when the ball is hit ?????? - it happened just 2 times, in the other situations the striker was 1 on 1 with the keaper ????????????????

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever Date: 15-09-2006, 00:16	anyone a link to highlites from lokomotiv - feyenoord ?

Author: EarlofBug
Date: 15-09-2006, 06:35

@Ricardo:
Is Feyenoord and PSV coaches's both are named Koeman?
It was understood from your message.

@MichaelCollins:
You think that Chernomorets will pass, although you wrote
Chernomorets 30 - 70 Maccabi Haifa?

@badgerboy:
I think that the most natural method to rank the matches, was by percentages of the UEFA coefficients of the clubs of the tottal coef.
I will try to do that if I will have the time.

Author: zatzayacu
Date: 15-09-2006, 06:53

Good results for the dutch teams. Ajax and Heerenveen will surely go through after 5-2 and 3-0 away victories.
I think AZ has a 50% chance against Kayserispor now, after 3-2 home win. And Feyenoord was lucky yesterday, everybody could see that their defence is the worst part of the team. Hopefully that will be better in 2 weeks, with Vlaar, Leonard en Collen back in the team. Than we must be able to reach the group stage.
And even Groningen still has a chance after their 4-2 loose by Partizan Belgrado. I think we can make 3 or 4 dutch participants in group stage.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 15-09-2006, 08:41

PSV and Feyenoord have both as coaches Koeman, yes. They are even brothers and have both played in the Dutch team - in '88, you know, when we won the EC.
PSV: Ronald Koeman played for Groningen, Ajax, PSV, Barcelona(scored the only goal in the first CL-win of Barca)
Feyenoord: Erwin Koeman, elder brother, played for Groningen, Ajax, ...?? In Belgium I think??

Feyenoord was very lucky indeed yesterday, but the extra time of the first half was a good punishment for all the diving the Bulgarians did in the first half with on top the half-penalty in the 45+4 minute. No, if Feyenoord will not improve they will be out.
I was also surprised by Kayserispor. It was already mentioned that they were the 'AZ of Turkey': with a little budget bringing up a good team. And they played attractive football. Not defending in an away match. The score shows the result: 3-2. I think a 4-2 or even 4-1 would have been a better understanding of how it lays, but it was a good match to look at.
Groningen was another Dutch team that was lucky, it could have been all over after the first half, but somehow they fought a bit back. Winning 2-0 at home should be possible, though I wonder if keeping the 0 is actually possible, 3-1 is also ok

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: alexx Date: 15-09-2006, 09:01 Edited by: alexx at: 15-09-2006, 09:01	Groniningen was soooo lucky. Partizan was much better team. It should have been 4-1 or even 5-1. Dutch team scored twice (the second goal in the last seconds) and therefore they kept their hopes alive. But still I think that based on what we saw yesterday Partizan should easily go through.

Author: redandwhite
Date: 15-09-2006, 09:02

@levskifan

lokomotiv (bul) 55 - 45 feyenoord (ned) ??? - wake up! it's morning

xanthi (gre) 52 - 48 dinamo buc. (rom) ??? - dinamo played 11 oficial games in this season: 10 wins and 1 draw (leader of romanian championship whith 6 wins in 6 games and 4 wins + 1 draw in uefa cup) - maybe is a lucky team. maybe or maybe not. remember last year in uefa. it's hard to be so unlucky again. we'll see that in spring of 2007.

rapid buc 40 - 60 nacional (por)??? you still bealive that???
"mamaliciki" don't want to go home, "mamaliciki" explode again!!!!
PS: say hi to Stoicikov

Author: Ricardo
Date: 15-09-2006, 09:04

Surprises in UC-R1:
Seeded teams that lost:
Slavia-Tottenham 0-1
Wisla-Iraklis 0-1
Eintracht-Brondby 4-0
Braga-Chievo 2-0

Seeded teams that drew at home:
Panathinaikos-Metalurh Z. 1-1
Hertha-OB 2-2

Very little surprises, so it seems
But in pot 1 Panathinaikos, Schalke, Leverkusen and Feyenoord have still a lot to do to reach the GS

This GS will be, I think, of a high level - does the Intertoto has that effect yet? Look at possible teams in pot 5: Tottenham, Braga, Eintracht, Dinamo Boekarest, Grasshoppers, Blackburn Rovers...

Author: antonio62tr
Date: 15-09-2006, 09:09
Edited by: antonio62tr
at: 15-09-2006, 09:11

My opinion about Turkish teams is similar with others

Fenerbahçe 2-1 Randers : Fener can score 5-6 goals and i think they are gonna defeat Randers at Denmark too.

Trabzonspor 2-2 Osasuna : Very good comeback for Trabzon. I think there would be tigh game at Spain and Trabzon will eliminate Osasuna. Their coach is new and he defeated Besktas at Isatnbul and draw with Osasuna at empty stadium(because of their penalty)

AZ 3-2 Kayseri : Kayseri can make their suprise.Actually AZ missed 200% goal at the end of the game. that position can be end of their european games

Besiktas 2-0 CSKA Sofia : CSKA did nothing. 10 men defending. After red card 9 men defending.They have only one position and thats all. After reading here from Bulgarian friend, i was expecting better football from them.Besiktas deserve to win andi think they will win at Sofia too.
Good Luck to all Turkish teams!!

Also congratulation Romanian teams..They all win..
And also Denmark teams.They did all their bests...

What happened to Ukrainian, Scottish and Greek teams...They all go down...

Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 15-09-2006, 09:52

and dinamo bucharest, athough last year beat 5-1 everton, they played bad after that, and even so drew home herenveen, lost min 92+ levski, won cska moscaova and ... lost with OM
this year they really impress me, am not subjective, they really play far better than last year so i hope to be a big surprize coming from the last pot and qualifing in the last32, we can do it

pot 5 is not to be disconsidered

good luck lok sofia, go beat feyenoord

Author: Michele
Date: 15-09-2006, 10:26

I'd like to explain one of the surprise results a bit. Frankfurt - Brřndby 4-0. I didn't watch the game as no Danish channel broadcast it, but I followed it on the radio and have watched brief highlights. The first half was apparently very evenly balanced and Brřndby was perhaps slightly better, but 0-0 at HT was a quite fair reflection of the proceedings.

After five minutes of the second half, Frankfurt had a shot at goal that beat the keeper, but a defender went down and stopped the ball with his hand. He probably didn't mean to, but I think it was OK to give the penalty and the red card that followed was probably inevitable too. The situation created a lot of heated discussions in the penalty box and suddenly Michael Thurk fell to the ground after being pushed/head-butted by Brřndby defender Mark Howard. Certainly play-acting by Thurk, who also received a yellow card, but from what I've heard the ref had to send off Howard and so he did. So in 30 seconds, the match went from 11-11 to 11-9 and a penalty for Frankfurt.

Thurk scored and 20 minutes later, Frankfurt got another penalty when the Brřndby keeper went after the ball, but only managed to bring down the Frankfurt attacker, very unwise indeed. Thurk scored again and in the last 20 minutes, the 9 Brřndby players were outplayed and conceded another two goals, which effectively ended the tie.

Perhaps the red card for Howard was a bit harsh and the fourth Frankfurt goal was reportedly offside, but overall, Brřndby's own mistakes cost them their chances of reaching the group stage.

Author: oxtales
Date: 15-09-2006, 10:57

1st half of Frankfurt-Brřndby was characteristed by hard play but very equal.

The decision for the match (and the tie) was absolutely the penalty for Frankfurt ending up with two red cards and a goal. Afterwards Frankfurt of course take the massive lead and finally a big win. Brřndby seems to have the weakest team in maybe 10 years.

One of the surprises - the Odense-draw away against Hertha Berlin was the missed chances match. Hertha and especially Odense missed a lot of big chances. 6-3 or 7-4 for Odense have not been undeserved. I was surprised by the carelessness from Hertha in general.

/Mark

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: skl Date: 15-09-2006, 11:32	highlights from Salzburg-Blackburn 2:2 http://webat1.sport1.at/video/index.php?view=1411 (you have to register on the site)

Author: badgerboy
Date: 15-09-2006, 13:06

Lest anyone should give up hope - or count their chickens too early -a trip down memory lane to last year.

Drawing at home in your first match is no great handicap to your future prospects:

Sevilla 0 Mainz 0
Hamburg 1 Kobenhavn 1

...even when the team you draw with is favourite to progress...

Zenit 0 AEK 0

...losing by two goals is OK too...

Kryliya 5 AZ 3
Banik 2 Heerenveen 0

...or at home...

Besiktas 0 Malmo 1

... or at home by two goals...

M. Petah-Tikva 0 Partizan 2

...or even at home when you're a stonking great outsider in the first place...

Halmstads 1 Sporting Lisbon 2

The fat lady's still on her summer holidays until the 28th...

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: antonio62tr Date: 15-09-2006, 13:23	old fat lady will come back for Trabzon... they draw inside with Osasuna but i still think they gonna pass to GS...

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: impdcl Date: 15-09-2006, 13:38	@dinamo_fan_4_ever: indeed the referees were a disaster......i saw the game and i've numbered 7 incorect decisions regarding offside against Dinamo B..... and i just want to say: shame on them !!!!!

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: eoinh Date: 15-09-2006, 15:04	The referee totally chickened out of awarding a penalty to Derry in their game against PSG. It wasnt only the Irish commentators who were saying this - the game was carried live on Eurosport also and they agreed it was a penalty. The referee was right next to the incident as well. Except for one 15 minute spell PSG were dire I have to say.

Author: MichaelCollins
Date: 15-09-2006, 15:11

Btw in case I confuse anyone else I posted my predictions by pasting from the original post without realising he had predictions in them....idiot moment from me! So the team underneath are my prediction and the percentages are from the quoted text.

And a two legged tie is never over until its over. Back in the 50s my grandfather went to see our team Partick play in the League Cup and we lost down in the South 8-2 to Queen of the South. Terrible eh? Thistle at home won the second leg 9-0!!!!!

In the last year we have seen games seemingly put to bed where Celtic and Real Madrid with a bit of luck would have turned around in the second leg (see 5-0 Artmedia, 4-0 Celtic return, 6-1 Zaragoza, 4-0 return)

Nothing is over at this early stage.

Although for fans of teams who have knicked a draw or could have put a superior side to bed. I am thinking of Lokomotiv Sofia mostly here. Beware an old saying we have here, "You rarely get two bites of the same cherry." I hope for you conceding those late goals will not come back to bite you, but I fear Feyenoord will produce the most of their "get out of jail free" card.

Basle 6-2 Rabotnicki
What price a 4-0 for the Macedonians in the second leg?

Wisla 0-1 Iraklis
What is happening to Polish football?

Molde 0-0 Rangers
Hearts 0-2 Sparta Praha
Scottish football would like to thank you all for the UEFA Cup, and as of the second leg will be bidding you a farewell till next season when we will have three sides in the Cup due to losing a Champions League slot.

Derry 0-0 Paris SG
One of the results of the night by far.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: Sasa Date: 16-09-2006, 10:37	Partizan was lucky that Groningen played very bad. Anyway,Groningen is much better at home than away so Groningen must be favorite to go to next round.

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: mavano Date: 16-09-2006, 16:34	I agree with you that groningen home vs away is like a night vs day difference. But to say Groningen is favorite is pushing it bit..... But the late goal at least gives them a realistic chance. 2-0 or 3-1 indeed isn't impossible

Re: UEFA Cup - 1st Round
Author: bluemo Date: 20-09-2006, 10:36	@MichealCollins As poor as Rangers were in the first leg against Molde I do not believe your assessment of them going out is impartial. In fact it goes against almost all the rest of your post.

Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 20-09-2006, 13:04
Edited by: Cro_nogomet
at: 20-09-2006, 13:06

Call me crazy, but I believe that Dinamo Zagreb will beat Auxerre next week and go through.

After the 1-2 home defeat in the first leg the media pressure on Dinamo coach was terrible, he almost got fired (although he has 7 wins from 7 matches in the championship!), because the press created the atmosphere that Dinamo is much better than Auxerre, and big favorite to beat them.

Now, nobody believes in the miracle, which is good because the team can prepare in peace and play without any pressure. And how Dinamo play when they have nothing to lose, we saw in London against Arsenal. Auxerre is much weaker than Arsenal, so I really believe we have a chance. If Kobenhavn could against Ajax...

Author: badgerboy
Date: 20-09-2006, 15:01

Cro_nogomet

Funny you should mention the Dinamo Zagreb-Auxerre tie as I came across an interesting fact, at least interesting given the context of this forum, about these two clubs the other day.

The clubs also met in a UEFA Cup qualifying match back in 1989-90 in what - to the best of my knowledge - is the only "coefficient play-off" in the history of the European Cups. I say - to the best of my knowledge - as I only came across this one by accident, so there may have been others I don't know about.

Back then the UEFA Cup always had 64 teams, based on rankings just like now (3rd, 8th & 21st being the key spots even then). Unused spots were reallocated as extra spots to the countries ranked 9th & below.

After their ban in 1985 England kept their position in the UEFA rankings and their UEFA Cup spots were simply reallocated. By 1989-90 (the last year of their ban) England were giving up two spots. Based on the 1987-88 rankings the first of these went to 9th placed Austria. But France & Yugoslavia were ranked joint 10th - with the same 5 year coefficient. At the time UEFA apparently didn't take the most recent coefficient into account so there was a play-off instead. It appears that UEFA didn't originally count the match for coefficient purposes but adjusted the figures to take it into account after a couple of years.

For the record - Auxerre won the tie after losing the first leg at home.

Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 21-09-2006, 15:37

@ badgerboy

Interesting fact. I really didn't know that and AFAIK this was never mentioned before here on this forum. Thanks for the info.

BTW, Auxerre is historically probably the most unpleasant opponent for Dinamo. Like you said in UC-QR 1989/90 Dinamo won the first leg in Auxerre 0-1 (Davor Suker goal) but few days before the second leg, Auxerre bought Enzo Scifo who was one of the best European players back then and they beat us 1-3 in Zagreb and went through to R1.

In season 1994/95 these 2 clubs met again in the CWC R1. Dinamo (called Croatia Zagreb at the time) won the first leg in Zagreb 3-1 and missed a penalty. It wasn't enough. In the return match in France, Zvonimir Soldo was sent off after only 12 minutes, the coach/president of the club Miroslav Blazevic was also sent off, and Auxerre cruised into the R2 with a 3-0 victory. The match was labelled by the troubles with Dinamo fans (Bad Blue Boys) both on the stadium and throughout the town. That caused Dinamo a one-year ban from European cups.

So, when the draw showed the name AJ Auxerre right next to Dinamo's nobody was happy. I hope that the history won't repeat itself, except in this one detail - the club which wins the first leg, ends up eliminated.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 21-09-2006, 16:51

In addition to badgerboy's info:

"The country coefficients in this archive include the result of the UEFA Cup 89/90 qualification matches between AJ Auxerre (France) and Dinamo Zagreb (Yugoslavia). The original rankings published by UEFA included these matches for the rankings of 1992 and 1993, but excluded the matches for the rankings of 1990, 1991, and 1994. In order to obtain the rankings published by UEFA subtract 0.4 for France, and add 0.5 for Yugoslavia in 1990, 1991, and 1994."

You can find this (and some more) info at the bottom of the Database webpage. Hidden so well that not many people find it

Author: badgerboy
Date: 22-09-2006, 13:04

As well as the Database pages which Bert mentions - and which are great for historical coefficient info. - the history page itself is recommended.

It was actually on the link to Pawel Mogielnicki (right at the foot of the page) that I came across the info. about the "co-efficient play-off".

Particularly interesting on how UEFA Cup places were allocated in the event of a country being banned or not taking part. The treatment of Yugoslavia's coefficient during their ban - and subsequent reallocation of theeir unused places - was one aspect I didn't know about before.