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Author: Pedro
Date: 29-07-2006, 17:34
Edited by: Pedro
at: 29-07-2006, 17:41

English at their primitivism best

Since the Heysel tragedy we already knew the english hooligan gentleman manners and their love for the beer, or the tabloid high culture for the barbarians.
Now,since the world cup is over Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare with death threats by mail or anonymos phone calls. His house in Manchester suburbs was vandalized and even his niece who is 12 and lives in Jersey was beaten in school just because she is Ronaldo's relative.

WHAT A NICE AND CIVILIZED PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Maluyaca Date: 29-07-2006, 17:42	Source?

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Pedro Date: 29-07-2006, 17:46	Portuguese TV and press.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: eldaec Date: 29-07-2006, 18:29	My commiserations, it looks like your press is as lazy and inaccurate as ours these days.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: apw Date: 29-07-2006, 19:32	COME TO ENGLAND - I LOVE IT HERE ! Signed JOSE MOURINHO

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: STK Date: 29-07-2006, 19:44	Yes, but M O U R I N H O, if i'm allowed to write his name, had a goooood team and homogenous too to Porto, and a lot of finacial posibilites to Chealse ($$$$$$$$). I like see how much will enjoy England if were the coach of a mid-table EPL club, and also how his coachig capabilities will help him in this situation.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Pedro Date: 29-07-2006, 19:52	My ass is bigger than my brain! Signed: Wayne Rooney

Author: MalcolmW
Date: 29-07-2006, 19:56

Chelsea had the money before they got Mourinho - but limited results.
Mourinho had success before he got Chelsea and their money. So far he has kept squad players happy but I'm sure that will get harder. Last season he described Eidur Gudjohnsen as 'the blond Maradona' but it was just an effort to keep him happy when not having a first choice place in the team. It didn't work on Eidur, but maybe it helped to keep up his transfer fee?

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: apw Date: 29-07-2006, 20:20	COME TO ENGLAND - I LOVE IT HERE ! Signed RUI FARIA, SILVINO LOURO , PEDRO MENDES, EVEN NELLY FURTADO APPEARED ON TV HERE ONCE - LOL Let's talk about coeffients and take this to the other forum, if it has to be discussed at all !

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Pedro Date: 29-07-2006, 20:33	@apw I won't go to England because I'm afraid I could met George Michael in a public place.Lol I'm sorry if Nelly Furtado appeared on your TV. I bet you're missing Kyle Minogue.Lol

Author: 5UCLGSteams
Date: 29-07-2006, 21:03

@Pedro: related to this i've got to say it is more Rooney vs Ronaldo 's problem than a whole nations one. I find it dangerous for Ronaldo to accidentally meet Rooney on the street

but it shouldn't be dangerous for him to safely live in his house or to safely play again for MU.
Here I find guilty the newspapers too because they also try to exagerate things and give them a "basic instinct connotation".

Regards,
Adrian

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: SHEV Date: 29-07-2006, 21:14	How could Ronaldo demand red card for his club partner? If I was Rooney I would personally kick this mean portugese ass. I totally support all offences on Ronaldo by English fans.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: apw Date: 29-07-2006, 21:48 Edited by: apw at: 29-07-2006, 21:49	Pedro : I am scared of meeting George Micheal too, i have to be especially careful as he comes from Watford and i only live 8 miles from there ! Just glad he spends most of his time in Los Angeles In all seriousness i am glad you have sense of humour. I am coming to Portugal on 23rd August is there anywhere i should avoid ?

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Speedy Date: 29-07-2006, 22:27	Ronaldo deserves the treatment he is getting from the english fans, he will be very smart to appologise to them; In 98 Dan Petrescu scored a goal against England in the 90th minute, and for a short while he wasn't too popular at Chelsea.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: 5UCLGSteams Date: 29-07-2006, 23:16	@Speedy: I have no doubt about that. I have also been personally not very popular among Middlesborough supporters in Eindhoven when i was happy with sevilla's scoring 4 goals though i am not spanish and was dressed neutral. Still ,at 3-1, my biscuits had an unexpected visit of some ketchup which i found acceptable.....but i doubt same soft thing happened to Cristiano Ronaldo

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Pedro Date: 30-07-2006, 00:43 Edited by: Pedro at: 30-07-2006, 00:44	@apw Don't worry. You're wellcome. Enjoy your holidays. I don't know where you will be staying ( North?, Lisbon?, Algarve? ), but if you need any help or advice, contact me to: janpires@megamail.pt

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: SHEV Date: 30-07-2006, 11:26	5UCLGSteams: Still ,at 3-1, my biscuits had an unexpected visit of some ketchup ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: 5UCLGSteams Date: 30-07-2006, 12:29	It was ,of course,3-0 and probably me taking pictures of not very happy faces at that score that annoyed them

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: panda Date: 31-07-2006, 10:43	were they savoury biscuits in which case, acceptable, or sweet biscuits, in which case, very bad, xcept in new-fangled Euro cuisine where they make pretentious rubbish like 'salt-flavoured ice cream' or 'tuna and jam salad'

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: 5UCLGSteams Date: 31-07-2006, 12:51 Edited by: 5UCLGSteams at: 31-07-2006, 12:51	very bad then ....but also was the score for them...still 75% of the b. (mmmm..lots of choco involved ) survived the attack..i only took one more picture ...anyway if this would have happened to C.Ronaldo was it still very bad for him too?

Author: jmf
Date: 31-07-2006, 16:33
Edited by: jmf
at: 31-07-2006, 16:38

Ronaldo deserves respect like others. The problem in England (which is a very pleasant country where I spend my holidays for the last 3 years) is the press and essentially tabloids. Rooney is responsible of his act : Ronaldo has nothing to do with that. It's up to the referee to take the decision not to a player. If the referee (he was very close to Rooney) saw a fault commited voluntary (it was the case) the red card was logical. Ronaldo or not Ronaldo. How is possible for this press (trash) to push people to hate someone ? This is a shame.
Englishmen and women are very polite and gentle people, well educated. But a part of the population is barbaric, uneducated, racist (noy only agaist Africans, Indians... but even against all Europeans, thank you Mr Murdock!). When they're in a foreign country or when they talk about football their behavior is totally different. It's a real problem for England.

Author: panda
Date: 31-07-2006, 18:17

I think it's about the passage of time.

After Beckham was sent off for kicking Simeone - a similar instance where Beckham had previously been fouled several times - some bad sections of british public turned on him, they even produced effigies of him hanged. However, after some time passed, everyone forgot.

Yes, in England there are some very barbaric people, from many different ethnic groups, and some are also football 'fans' (here, we saym, they cannot be true fans. But I would say most people are pretty tolerant. Our press and media? All sorts of opinions and standards are represented; it depends what you follow (most people follow the same sort of media as they are themselves.)

Author: badgerboy
Date: 31-07-2006, 18:55

jmf

"How is possible for this press (trash) to push people to hate someone ? This is a shame".

What you said about the British tabloids is very true. The Sun is probably the worst of them and has been for years. (I wouldn't go so far as to class the "Sport" as any form of "news" paper).

I remember back during Euro '96 a lot of people were very unamused by the derogatory (some would say racist) headlines The Sun produced to describe England's opponents - especially Spain & Germany. The supposed objective seemingly to "whip the nation into a nationalistic frenzy against Johnny Foreigner" and to show what a patriotic beast the newspaper itself is. I happened to be travelling in Scotland at the time & discovered that the Scots got their own version of the same newspaper. Of course the headlines there were rather different - speaking of the English in similar terms to how the English paper talks about everybody else.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: SHEV Date: 31-07-2006, 19:51	I don't read English press but still have no respect to Ronaldo, even not being supporter of English national team.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: panda Date: 31-07-2006, 19:56	Equally, plenty of supporters of English national team (like me) think that Rooney (and some others) are not always good advertisements for English nation.

Author: jmf
Date: 31-07-2006, 21:38

@ badgerboy. I don't know very well our friends from Scotland but I'm sure what's you said ("Of course the headlines there were rather different - speaking of the English in similar terms to how the English paper talks about everybody else.) is true and very interesting. And I'm disappointed about that. But I'm sure this kind of press is limited to some few countries. I can't imagine here in Belgium, before a match against Germany, an article on the invasion of may 1940 like the picture of the Blitz in the Sun before a match between England and Germany. The Germans are our friends like the Spaniards, Portugueses, Hungarians... and other Europeans and non- Europeans. It's very difficult to me to be clear : english is not my language and I repeat I like England. I spent wonderful moments in the South west of the country several times. But this behavior in the british press is awful. It's like the british empire era, the "Rule Britannia period" : everything is better in England. The others are others and less intelligent with a "poor" political system. Nothing to learn from them. So this kind of press for racists, nationalitic conservatives and uneducated people is basically the cause of the bad british behavior... when Brits are in a foreign country. I repeat we, as Europeans, share the same values, freedom, fight against racism, tolerance and respect of others. I don't think Rupert Murdock knows that, this bastard.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 01-08-2006, 10:46

jmf

An in depth discussion on this issue would be straying a long way off the topic of football.

But essentially I agree with much of what you say. I dislike the tabloid press in the UK and dislike even more the fact that these papers are far more popular than "real" newspapers.

Much of what the papers come out with though I find more amusing than dangerous. I realise though that this might not take into account the fact that some people take them more seriously than I do.

It's also very true that large parts of British society see themselves as "seperate" from the rest of Europe. Hence the habit of being on the fringe of changes in Europe rather than on the cusp. A lot of this is historical and geographical. How much this is the tabloid press influencing public opinion and how much public opinion dictating the line taken by the tabloids is open to debate. It's probably become a circle.

"It's like the british empire era, the "Rule Britannia period" : everything is better in England."

An attitude of superiority is something I have more of a problem with than that of being seperate. Then again sometimes I wonder how much this attitude really exists (I'm sure it does in some people) and how much it is the perception of others. Maybe I just tend not to hang out too much with people who consider themselves superior for whatever reasons. But I also feel that it's seen as a lot less acceptable, again due to history, to be seen to be proud to be British (or especially English) than it is to be proud to be Scottish, Irish or Belgian. The same attitudes that in others are perceived as normal (being patriotic and loving your own country)in the English can be perceived as nationalistic and insular.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Ricardo Date: 01-08-2006, 11:26	"Ronaldo deserves respect like others" Ronaldo should show and play with respect like others.

Author: panda
Date: 01-08-2006, 11:49

I have to say it is hard to put your finger on a single 'Englishness' (let alone of course Britishness, which may not exist at all).

Of course it's true that maybe from so basic a thing that we live on an island and it rains a lot (well it used to, now it's like the Mediterranean), we are resistant to 'continental Europe.' Even in London, which is unbelievably multi-cultural, most of the English people I know go around with other English, and foreign with foreign (though not just their own nationality, all nationalities).

At the same time there are plenty of educated English / British (let's say by educated at least an opnness to languages that are not English, for whom increasing connections with Europe are just great.

Traditionally, of course, football crowds were less rather than more educated, but I think even that has changed in the last 20 yrs.

I have no idea how influential the 'bad' press is. I know that all 'educated' people hate and laugh at it. As badgerboy says, a full discussion wof all this would be long and beyond even the scope of forum 2!

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Pedro Date: 01-08-2006, 14:25	@Ricardo I presume you're talking about Khalid Boulahrouz.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: jmf Date: 01-08-2006, 23:10	@ badgerboy and panda : thank you for your answers. You're absolutely right. Both.

Author: panda
Date: 03-08-2006, 10:37

@jmf

Also I have to say the English relation with the Germans is a very strange thing. As many fans found out recently, cultural kinship between English and German is traditionally very deep.

The World Wars were unbelievably terrible, but now just about everyone is dead who lived in the 1st one, and even the 2nd one is 60 yrs ago, but there remains a strange fascination for the English. Personally, I think that the fact Britain has not been invaded for so long changes popular attitudes. In particular, it somehow allows people to make jokes about WW2, which surely cannot happen in the same way in countries where there was land conflict.

English people have the 'island' attitude to start with, but in a particular way that foreigners are comic, they speak funny etc. i.e what is different is also funny for English people. Of course, once an English person is educated and/ or travels this attitude is seen to be childish.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: ignjat63 Date: 03-08-2006, 10:49 Edited by: ignjat63 at: 03-08-2006, 10:56	Here is a long and very interesting article on "Englishness" which I found also rather amusing. Any comments by you English people?

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: MalcolmW Date: 03-08-2006, 11:41	OK so the extensive Orwell quotes are here again. While there are some perceptive and recognisable aspects, it should be remembered that this was published in 1941 by an anti-establishment Old Etonian. (and his real name was ... Blair!)

Author: badgerboy
Date: 03-08-2006, 12:06

To me it's a very good article.

It's surprising how much of it still has a ring of truth today.

Two of the main impressions I'd say I share with it are:

1. When things go wrong it's not because those in charge are corrupt it's just that they are stupid

2. "England is perhaps the only great country where intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality". Maybe "ashamed" is a bit strong but this generally fits in with what I said before. It's seen as less "acceptable" to be proud to be English than it is of being many other nationalities.

Author: panda
Date: 03-08-2006, 16:22

Not only are intellectuals ashamed to be English.

English are also ashamed to be intellectuals....

There's a good book by Jermey Paxman called the English, which I think is generally 'correct.'

But as with any country where the population is in tens of millions, it's relatively hard to sum up Englishness except in the stereotypes everyone knows. Now it's even more complicated because there are large ethnic communities that are in their own way English.

I DO think it's really important that Britain is an island, not invaded for almost 1000 yrs, where private life is much more important than public (because weather is bad so you stay indoors?).

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Pedro Date: 03-08-2006, 20:19 Edited by: Pedro at: 03-08-2006, 20:27	@Panda England was invaded successfully by William of Orange ( William III) and his dutch army at the end of the XVII th century.

Author: panda
Date: 03-08-2006, 20:26
Edited by: panda
at: 03-08-2006, 20:30

@pedro

It's a feature of this forum it often goes into history and politics.

We don't think of William of Orange as an invader; although for sure if you are an Irish Catholic you do - also because the real fighting was not in England but in Ireland. We see him as being invited to become king (his claim was through his wife, so it was William & Mary) because the nobility was frightened that the then king, James II, was a Catholic (this need not be a religious thing either, when England became Protestant many guys got the chance to buy the church's lands etc; they never wanted to give this up) - so likewise we think of 1715 and 1745 as unsuccessful invasions (Bonnie Prince Charlie got as far south as Derby in 1745).

The arguments in our history are always change v continuity, there is a strong argument that nothing much ever happens e.g. when there were civil wars, only a few people were fighting.

Incidentally, whatever Rooney v Ronaldo, for sure England and Portugal are old allies against the French!

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Pedro Date: 03-08-2006, 21:06 Edited by: Pedro at: 03-08-2006, 21:11	The Treaty of Windsor (1386) is the oldest alliance treaty between two nations in the world. It has more than 600 years. It was important not only against France, but also against Spain. Never was broken. I hope C.Ronaldo and W.Rooney don't tear it in little pieces now. Lol Certainly not.They are good friends.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 03-08-2006, 21:32

Oh yes, our great Dutch Leader William the third(I think, but it can be any number from 1-5).
I wonder why he went to live in England and gave up Holland. Why didn't he just joined the two empires - we would have been a great super-power. At least on the seven seas!
Togehter with the exchange of New York for Suriname one of the most strange decisions on Dutch history (or was it the one putting Kuyt to play against Portugal....)

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Pedro Date: 03-08-2006, 21:58	Probably William of Orange gave up pot, but I think fish and chips isn't any better.

Author: panda
Date: 04-08-2006, 13:43
Edited by: panda
at: 04-08-2006, 13:58

@pedro

No! Although fish and chips can be poor, sometimes it is great (depends on quality of fish and how much care is taken with chips, best to cook yourself). Also you should support fish and chips, because traditionally it is made with the same fish - cod - bacalao (?) that is important for your cuisine too.

But it is also true - England is a country where there are hardly any 'English resturants' - eating out = eating foreign, whereas I know in many European countries eating out is eating the same food you would cook yourself, just without the hassle.

Our 'basic cookbook' in England is written by Delia Smith - unfortunately she is a big Norwich City fan, so she suffers a lot. During the World Cup, she ran a column in a newspaper called 'meals you can cook at half-time,' clever idea- you do all the preparation before kick off. Then cooking time must be {15 mins. Finally you can eat during the second half. She gave her fees for this to Norwich City - they need all the help they can get.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: MalcolmW Date: 04-08-2006, 20:10 Edited by: MalcolmW at: 04-08-2006, 20:31	Wayne Rooney scores good goal after 19 mins in pre-season match v Porto, but is sent off (straight red) after 41 mins for aerial foul on Pepe (hand in face). 2nd sending-off in 3 matches... and now Paul Scholes also sent off for tackle from behind!

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: apw Date: 04-08-2006, 21:07	Manchester United have disgraced English Football - lol But they still managed to beat Porto without their 2 hotheaded players. And why does everytime Rooney face Portugese opposition or Players ( Ferreira at Chelsea) he either gets sent off or injured. I haven't seen the game or incident but apparently there was a lot of play acting from Porto although i find that hard to believe !

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Pedro Date: 04-08-2006, 21:22 Edited by: Pedro at: 04-08-2006, 21:24	@Panda I was joking. I love fish. All the ways even with chips. And I know british cuisine is not so bad as we continentals use to say. I lived and worked in Algarve for several years,where I met lots of british people and I know some of your cooking habits. Rooney did it again!!!

Author: panda
Date: 05-08-2006, 13:21
Edited by: panda
at: 05-08-2006, 13:22

I saw very brief highlights - the Scholes s.o is clear foul tackle from behind. The Rooney example - I am not sure it was deliberate, his hand pushes him in the face, but maybe it is part of the jump - probably he would not have been sent off in EPL, but certainly people have been sent off for similar in WC (not as bad as De rossi though) and I can see what ferguson means that now rooney has a really bad reputation. However, that reputation is also eagerly seized on by the media here - lots of abuse of rooney in the papers, and people saying on breakfast TV - 'Well, at least he did not stamp on his balls this time' and 'is there a limit to how often you can get sent off before you are banned for ever?'

@pedro

Have you been in London? Massive Portuguese community here, especially in 2 areas, Vauxhall/Stockwell and Harlesden/ North Kensington, including at one time one of most trendy cafes in London. So during WC you could see enormous numbers of Portuguese flags in cars, and a few with both England and Portuguese flags. So plenty chances to eat portuguese cuisine here. Also for some reason, Portuguese wine is the new fashion.

Author: Pedro
Date: 05-08-2006, 16:08

@Panda
I think you are rigth about Scholes and Rooney's faults. The decision about Scholes was correct, but the dutch ref was a little bit harsh on Rooney. Despite Rooney's attitude was not inocent, he would probably get a yellow card in the portuguese league.

I never have been in London. I would love to, specially going to some museums and art gallerys, but for some reason I have never been there. I know very well Spain, Italy, Brazil, a little bit of France, so I think it's time to know the british islands. London is a multicultural city and I know there are lots of portuguese, specially from Madeira Island.

The flag trend ( fashion ) was brougth to Portugal by Luis Felipe Scolari, the brazilian portuguese national team coach during the Euro 2004, when he asked people to put flags on their windows and cars.

If you like fish and seafood as I do, you must ask portuguese green wine ( Vinho Verde ). Drink it very fresh.

Author: panda
Date: 05-08-2006, 16:50

Rooney's autobiography Vol 1 My Story So Far, ghosted by a very well-respected writer, is just out. I have not read it, but I have seen very short extracts and people talk about it a lot.

It seems (no surprise!) that Rooney has almost nothing interesting to say. He can't even remember much about a lot of the important moments in his life. People write about him for a while as a kind of 'force of nature' - you know like the baby elephant nickname, or Caliban (Shakespeare) or Kali (malign Hindu god). At the same time, this not very bright but straightforward character is seen as quite appealing in England.

Ronaldo, with his vanity (e.g. looking at the big screen to adjust his hair during matches), his sophistication, the very beautiful way he plays the ball is kind of the opposite. So in the English stereotype we are a bit suspicious of him. Winking = 'I know more than you.'

From an abstract point of view it is extremely 'appropriate' these two players clashed. Of course, now Portugal is Rooney's nemesis - injured in Euro 2004, injured in domestic season by Ferreira, then sent off, sent off. He will not be going to the Algrave for his holidays, methinks.

@pedro
vinho verde - the quality here is a bit hit and miss. I am ashamed to say I know Spain much better than Portugal; the closest I got was to look over the Douro from Extramadura. But I hope to visit, especially Coimbra.

Author: exile
Date: 05-08-2006, 18:49

The treatment of Ronaldo is a disgrace, but entirely typical of the behaviour of a small minority of English fans, spurred on by the disgusting tabloid press. The windows of Ronaldo's house were smashed after the Rooney incident.

I accept that Ronaldo is a cheat and a play-actor - but this seems to be normal in the game today and its up to the authorities to stamp it out, not fans threatening players with violence.

Author: Pedro
Date: 05-08-2006, 19:25

@Panda
So many interesting matters, I don't know where to start:

* Ronaldo - he is not what people think and tabloid press try to label him. Most of his vanity is just a cover to hide many sad things in his life. I can tell you he is humble and with a big heart, despite all that show off. He comes from Madeira.He was raised in a poor and problematic family. He has many brothers and his father is already dead of alchool abuse. He came to Lisbon when he was 12, to play in the Sporting schools. It was his luck. Sporting has one of the best football scools in Europe ( Futre, Figo, Sim�o, C.Ronaldo, etc ) and he was always protected.
There is an interesting story about Ronaldo. A few years ago Sporting had so many kids out of Lisbon in his schools, they told to some of them, from cities near Lisbon, that the club was run out of lodgment and they should go back living with their families. There was a black kid called Semedo, also from a very poor and problematic family who had to return to his family. Cristiano then offered his room to share with him.
Just one more thing about Cristiano. Most of his image was created by Man Utd. After D.Beckham left they needed a new star for marketing reasons. Like Holywood stars, his image has been worked. The man is completely different from the icon.

*Rooney - As you said, Rooney is a force of nature. His instincts react before his brain. I like him. Football needs this kind of player too.
Rooney and Man.Utd have been in Algarve for several times. They are always welcome.

*Coimbra - In spite of I was born and I live in Lisbon, my family comes from a small village near Coimbra.I know the city very well and I'll be there for the next 15 days on holydays and doing some resarch in the University archives. So, i think you have very good taste.
I'll also be doing a boat trip in river douro at the end of the month untill Spain. I know Castille and Extremadura very well ( Salamanca, Avila, Caceres, Trujillo, Toledo).

Author: panda
Date: 06-08-2006, 16:09

Yes, of course I agree that the image of a football star is part constructed, part closely related to the 'real' person. I think it is very common for a person to have many sides, and this is true of Rooney as it is of C. Ronaldo. For example, they showed a joke programme where Rio Ferdinand played practical jokes on his friends, using the help of their other friends or families. In Rooney's case they got him to tell a little boy his dog was dead (it was all faked, but he thought he had helped during the operation and the dog had not survived.). You could see that Rooney was (very naturally) upset for the child.

At the same time fans like to have heroes and villains, people they boo and people they cheer. As we see with almost any topic on this forum, 'liberal discussion' makes most issues not quite black and white.

pedro, are you on forum 2 by another name - I don't want to use up forum space on non-football, but I can send you a p.m.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: Pedro Date: 07-08-2006, 10:16	@Panda I'm not on forum 2 ( my fault!) and I will be out for the next 3 weeks ( Coimbra, Douro and Spain).I leave today. You can send me a pm to: janpires@megamail.pt

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: bluefan Date: 10-08-2006, 16:47	who cares about this diving cunt,except his mother maybe? he made the nightmare himself with his behaviour,don't you think so? so,well,i must say he deserves this. p.s. i'm not rooney's biggest fan,not at all...

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: MalcolmW Date: 10-08-2006, 18:37	It is (and indeed was) all so irrelevant. The referee saw the incident and had clearly made his decision before Ronaldo got involved. Ronaldo plays for Rooney's club - so what? He was playing for Portugal against England in this match. If he plays for ManU against Benfica he is just as likely to protest against a fellow Portugese offender. It's just his way.

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: blueultras Date: 11-08-2006, 02:06 Edited by: blueultras at: 11-08-2006, 02:23

Author: nelster
Date: 11-08-2006, 11:03

I'm loving the analogies of William of Orange, Fish and Chips etc etc.

Very proud to be Scottish and British (as are the majority of Scots)

It is a strange time to be British just now, I was recently over in the USA on honeymoon and was amazed and excited to see the country's flag on every street corner, they were massive.

Here in Britain our intellectuals seem to have some problem of self-loathing and everything that the country used to stand for is being trampled on by way of "political correctness". The Union Flag especially is frowned upon as they seem to have it down as a Racist /Sectarian item. I also think the lower classes of Britain have diversified much more and there is no longer any common unity, everyone seems frightened to be involved in society as we have become so gripped by stupid rules where even taking a childs hand that isn't yours to cross the road or disciplining them could land you in jail.

Anyway at the moment I keep telling people that Germany is the new Britain, everything still seems to be steadfast, together, with good core values, I don't know where ours went.

Author: panda
Date: 11-08-2006, 16:26

@nelster, ignjat63

I think this last post (by you, nelster) is a good indication of what is going on here in Britain. On the one hand those things you, ignjat63 find in George Orwell DO still exist, and in a few corners of britain some exist in extremely well-preserved forms - often you can go into a town or village and it seems very traditional. At the same time, as badgerboy said, that was written 60+ yrs ago.

So what we have now is that people who are 60 are babyboomers, born after the war, with more 'liberal' attitudes. And now the liberals have also become the 'establishment' to some extent, hence big political correctness / multi-culturalism. In some ways, sport led the way (black footballers, now Asian cricketers.)

This makes traditional English, Scottish and british identities much more confusing.

here too, as with germany, sport and specifically football, led a renaissance - flying flags s not everyhting, but it is a significant thing that is now 'OK' despite political correctness, in suppoort of national football team...

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: apw Date: 13-08-2006, 13:49	Interesting twist to the tale from England's Vice Captain http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals

Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is living a nigthmare
Author: apw Date: 13-08-2006, 13:58	Also Steve McClaren has predicted that Wayne Rooney could one day captain England - What a Prospect - lol !