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Author: SHEV
Date: 28-06-2006, 00:50

I'm little bit confused with some western press articles about Ukraine. They call it weak team that didn't deserve to play even in 1\8 of World Cup.

Many of us forgotten that football isn't just about pace and technique. Football consists of many components like tactical skills, tackling, marking, stamina, concentration. Strength of a team can be not only in attacking, but also in defending.

Ukraine lacks technical skills and speed, but very strong in other components. Teamplay and movement is a key in Ukraine success. Just look at the statistics - Ukraine is 1-st placed in "Tackles Commited" and 3-rd best team(from 16 in second round) in "Tackles Suffered"(means less tackles suffered).

Ratio TC/TS is 1,66. All other teams ratio 0.70-1.30. Difference is huge.

You can call Ukraine game dull - and you will be completely right, cause we played in 2 of the 3 most boring games in World Cup so far(Ukr-Tun, Ita-Aus, Sui-Ukr), but you can't say Ukraine is weak team, cause it's not.

Anyway I'm proud that my team in QF of World Cup in first appearence. And I'm proud that it happened in Germany and not in South Korea/Japan. Beacuse now from 7 teams that in QF with Ukraine we have 6 World Cup winners and all 7 are big teams while in 2002 it was Turkey, Senegal, USA and Korea and I wouldn't consider those quaterfinal reach a big succes.

Author: panda
Date: 28-06-2006, 00:54

Probably you answered your own question - the press often puts big emphasis on technical skills and speed.

Then Ukr lost 4-0 in the first match, so people thought of them as worse.

In the last 16, there was not much evidence either team showed much ambition.

HOWEVER, you are right. Better to play well as a team than be lots of so-called superstars (as, we England are supposed to be) but so far play terrible (as we have).

Author: badgerboy
Date: 28-06-2006, 02:16

Shev

As a Ukrainian you are right to be proud that your country has reached the World Cup quarter-finals at the first attempt.

As posted elsewhere though as a neutral they are extremely dull to watch. Now Spain are out they really should be my "second team" - after England - to win the World Cup but having sat through their games with both Tunisia and Switzerland I even finding myself not minding too much if they lose to Italy (and I really don't like them!).

Panda though I really have to take some issue with! England are getting heaps of stick for "not playing well" but I'm sure none of their performances have been as turgid as either team in last night's match. There's a different expectation. England and other so called "big" teams expect to qualify and to play well doing so (at least half the pundits and more than half the population seem to think so) while Ukraine are generally happy to be where they are. I think to say Ukraine are playing better as a team than England is just ridiculous - the expectation level is just different.

Finally just to mention that one key World Cup stat I gave everyone before the tournament started has been confirmed. No European World Cup debutant playing on European soil has failed to reach the last eight since 1954. Ukraine has kept up this record. (Of course I count "new" countries like Serbia and Czech Republic as having been before in their former incarnations). Should've put all my money on that rather than Spain

Re: Weak Ukraine
Author: Pedro Date: 28-06-2006, 06:23 Edited by: Pedro at: 28-06-2006, 08:03	@Shev I think is unfair from you to say that. Ukrainian football is respected all over Europe. At least here in Portugal.Ukraine always had good teams (Dinamo Kyev), good players( so many, I remenber specially one, Chervakov, sadly lost to football) and even good coaches ( Lobanovsky) since the old Soviet Union.

Author: ignjat63
Date: 28-06-2006, 06:46
Edited by: ignjat63
at: 28-06-2006, 06:48

"(Of course I count "new" countries like Serbia and Czech Republic as having been before in their former incarnations). "

Actually Serbia will start anew from next EU qualifications. Oppinions are divided here so in a way you could be right. Political continuation makes sense but in sports I doubt it. Can Serbia really claim 1962 fourth place in WC when players from all ex-YU participated. I do not think so really. We should start from scratch now that we are by ourselves.

As for Ukraine whether they are boring or not is irrelevant as long as they go through. There are some threads in the archive condemning Greece for playing boring football "The most unpopular football tactics" - worth a read - but Greece was defended in the end as they won that EC. So all luck to you Ukrainians. Especially against Italians.

Author: panda
Date: 28-06-2006, 08:30

@badgerboy

Yes- I agree the expectation with england is different twice - a) one's own country and b) the best squad in a long time.

In fact, it is possible to make a good counter-argument and say so far Eng faced teams that tried to stop them playing, to say that look at France, such a bad start but so good against Spain. as always, time will tell....

And you are right psychologically too - I imagine if one were watching as a Ukr supporter, it's great pleasure each minute to see them 'still there'; with eng, it is torture that they are not (Till once, at the very end) 2 goals ahead at any stage against the opposition they have faced.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 28-06-2006, 12:40

Ignjat63

I know that you are correct from a technical perspective about new countries. It's a debate about who should be able to claim the titles (or palmares as many places seem to call them) of historic clubs too.

Using purely "non-technical" criteria I tend not to think of this being Serbia-Montenegro's first World Cup whereas 1998 was to me the first for Croatia. The same as I would not call this the Czech Republic's first World Cup but I would Slovakia had they qualified. Ditto this is the first World Cup for Ukraine but it wouldn't be for Russia. If I base this on anything I think it is simply the location of the capital city. New capital = new country. Old capital = old country with a bit less territory.

Anyway, I still think the record is fairly remarkable! Wales, N.Ireland and Russia were all quarter-finalists in Sweden in 1958, Portugal were 3rd in England in 1966, East Germany reached the second group stage (last 8) in West Germany in 1974, Ireland were quarter-finalists in Italy in 1990 and Croatia were 3rd in France in 1998. Ukraine makes eight in a row to make the quarters!

Re: Weak Ukraine
Author: Kronsky Date: 28-06-2006, 17:39	Congratulation to Ukraine for playing in QF. There is no weak teams that reach so far. Maybee their way of playing is not so impressive but hey, they are in QF and that is what counts in the end...! I wish the team great success! Best regards, Kronsky

Re: Weak Ukraine
Author: drvasko98 Date: 29-06-2006, 12:51	Ukraine team presentation in WC 2006 seam similar like Bulgaria from 1994 - terrible start against Spain 0 - 4 (Nigeria 0 - 3) second match big win 4 - 0 ag S.Arabia (4 - 0 ag Greece) and penalty in last 16 match. I expect result in quarter like Bulg - Germany 2 - 1

Author: KoZ
Date: 29-06-2006, 18:31
Edited by: KoZ
at: 29-06-2006, 18:32

There is no paralel between bulg '94 and ukraine '06...After the first defeat for Bulg. vs Nigeria, they played impressive all they games, and deservaid all their wins even in 1/2 vs italy they deserved at least a draw! Something i cant say for Ukraine, progressing in such a weak group with undeserved wins vs both Tunisia and Swiss!! If the referee had the guts to show 100% clear penalty vs Ukraine 3 mins before the end of the extra time, they would most probaly be home now!!

Re: Weak Ukraine
Author: SHEV Date: 30-06-2006, 16:48	You must be Swiss to say there was at least 1% penalty there.

Re: Weak Ukraine
Author: irshav Date: 01-07-2006, 03:14	That's it, the journey for Ukraine is over.... the last game on the WC was I think their best performance but unfortunately they are going home now. Having played in the WC is a great experience for them and it will give them a great deal of confidence in the near future. I can't wait for their next encounter with Italy in the qualification for Euro 2008. Great job, GO UKRAINE!!!

Re: Weak Ukraine
Author: KoZ Date: 01-07-2006, 20:12	No i am not Swiss and that was 100% penalty!! Whatever, Ukraine is out, and that was for sure the weakest team reaching 1/4 finals... Speaking of that, i think Italy got incredible luck with the fixtures, reaching 1/2 with matches vs Australia and then Ukraine!!

Re: Weak Ukraine
Author: exile Date: 02-07-2006, 22:43	As a Scot I'm not glad to see Ukraine in our Euro 2008 group - along with 2 World Cup semifinalists! UKraine will be a threat indeed, though they do tend to rely too much on Shevchenko.

Author: esperant
Date: 03-07-2006, 04:06

I think all three of Italy, France and Ukraine were lucky to reach the stages they have. Italy cheated against Australia, Ukraine huffed and puffed against mediocre teams with no attacking threat, and France, albeit this late surge, only just escaped from their group. I would say Scotland have at least some cause for optimism, especially after recent performances. Thrashed Bulgaria, more than matched Japan only two days later, and Kenny Miller has hit form with something like 5 international goals in his last 7 to go along with Burke and Boyd's great debuts, Garry O'Connor stepping it up a gear with Lokomotiv Moscow, and scottish player of the year Shaun Maloney still waiting to get proper international involvement. Could it be that Scotland have an attacking threat for the first time in years?

Re: Weak Ukraine
Author: Kolov Date: 03-07-2006, 22:59	Ukraine was enough succesefull in Germany. But the quaterfinal is a limit (top) for our friends now. Italy had explan to Ukraine who is who