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England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: Sasa Date: 17-06-2006, 10:48	If Argentina continues to play like this,the maximum England can achieve is quarterfinal

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: MalcolmW Date: 17-06-2006, 11:54	... assuming each win their group - otherwise they may not meet until the final.

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: ywann Date: 17-06-2006, 12:29	Vice-versa - if they both win their groups they won't meet untill the final. If just one of them win their group, they'll meet in 1/4 finals.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 17-06-2006, 12:37
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 17-06-2006, 12:38

Actually I think if each win their group (or each come second) they avoid each other - if one wins and one is second they meet.

The first good reason I've seen for England maybe wanting to win their group. Then again I don't think there is any guarantee Argentina will beat Holland even if they turn out to be the best team in the tournament at the end as well as the beginning. It will depend how both teams approach a match which only decides the group winner. I can't see either team going all out to avoid Portugal or Mexico. Maybe if Angola is second they will want to play them...

Ywann you beat me to it...

Author: panda
Date: 17-06-2006, 14:51

It's very possible that the last 8 teams are the best 8.

As soon as the last 16 is fixed it will be interesting to see how hard the route of each team to the final will potentially be (for example I think Brazil's route will be pretty hard, if remaining games are all won by favourites)

I'm sure EVERY team would like to avoid Arg in tehir present form. Would like to avoid even a team of the Argentina substitutes and reserves....

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: Malko Date: 17-06-2006, 18:54	Don't underestimate Spain either.......

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: MalcolmW Date: 17-06-2006, 19:17	I understand Brazil had a training session 'game' of 11 v 12, with Dida as an extra striker for the 12.

Author: apw
Date: 17-06-2006, 20:43

We all love the if's and buts of the Wc draw, once the knock-out stage begins, however the reality for any team is that to win the WC you are going to have to beat at least 2 maybe 3 top sides.
The best thing is for England or any team to keep up a winning mentality.
I agree on performances so far Argentina are streets ahead of England or anyone except maybe Spain at the moment, however once the knock out begins we will see a different tournament, how many times have the early pace setters ended losing, Brazil "82, Denmark "86, Italy "90, Argentina "94 etc etc whilst the slow starters normally Italy & Germany and even Argentina "90 have reached the final.

I am not advocating that England will be successful if fact, i believe that England will probably produce one great performance to raise everyone's hopes before shattering those dreams by losing a penalty shoot out or in extra time.

One other point, is Golden Goal being used in this tournament ?

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: salina Date: 17-06-2006, 21:04 Edited by: salina at: 17-06-2006, 21:05	@apw: "the reality for any team is that to win the WC you are going to have to beat at least 2 maybe 3 top sides". Mostly, or you are Germany and have to play against Paraguay, USA, South Korea... And start again in the 1/8 finals with Trinidad/Tobago??? The Golden Goal rule is abolished, so now they play a normal extra time.

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: exile Date: 18-06-2006, 22:58	That is unfair on the Germans. It's not their fault that Argentina and France were so poor in 2002, or that Italy and Spain lost to South Korea. And they didn't WIN the World Cup! This time round they will have to play in round 2 either England or (possibly) Sweden. Then if they win they will probably play Argentina. Hardly an easy route!

Author: Lupta_Steaua
Date: 18-06-2006, 23:07
Edited by: Lupta_Steaua
at: 18-06-2006, 23:09

I was just wondering, is it really about who you get to play against? or is it more important to be the hosts? you look at a French team which won the WC against the Brasilians (3:0!) what did they do since? It was only home ground that helped them, and if I am not mistaken they got EC also on own ground.

Then, you have the English side. they got their title at home as well, I am sometimes wondering why doesn't the championship take place in Sweden again so that they can get thiers?

Or, more reasonably, just make it in Holland or Spain (better both) and give them what they deserve

Best wishes, to Lionais especially because I really don't think your team deserved to be WC chmapion at that time. 1982 was a better time to get that

Author: apw
Date: 18-06-2006, 23:24
Edited by: apw
at: 18-06-2006, 23:40

Being Host certainly has proved an advantage, although Spain & Italy might disagree.
Even South Korea reached the semi final as a host and Mexico's best performances have come in their 2 competitions.
At least Brazil can claim to have won the competition on 3 continents, 5 if you seperate America into South, Central and North, so i guess in 2010 they will be looking to add Africa and if Australia host 2014 they could complete the set.

@Salina
lol - I must admit after i wrote about beating 2 top sides, i thought about Germany in 2002, but i suppose all teams were at their stage on merit ?
Re : my statement i was referring to this tournament, but after watching Ghana,USA, JAPAN & Korea this weekend, maybe this might not go as originally perceived.

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 18-06-2006, 23:25

Lupta, after the 98 title, the French team won the Euro 2000 (that happened to be in Belgium and Netherlands). Then we won the Confederations Cup in 2001 in Japan (with another win vs. Brazil, this time in semi-final)and we won the Confederations Cup again in 2003 (at home).
And just before, we made the semis in the Euro 96, beaten by the Czech Republic on penalty kicks.

Playing at home is a huge advantage, for sure. But I hardly believe that a bad team can win the World Cup although playing at home.

Author: apw
Date: 18-06-2006, 23:45

Re :Your point about Germany's opponents in 2002, is also aligned to England's bad luck with the World cup draw.
2002 Brazil in Q/F Whilst the other 3 games were :

Germany v United States
Turkey v Senegal
South Korea v Spain

In 1998. Argentina in round of 16.

2004 Euro's - Host Portugal in Q/F

still if always seems to be England's fate to be glorious in failure at major tournaments, but one day who knows.

It would be ironic though if for once England win their group stage and still end up playing the Hosts !

Author: Lupta_Steaua
Date: 19-06-2006, 00:18

Lyonnais, I am sorry if I offended somehow French football, they do have great players, Henry is probably the best one for the moment, but what I think is that they won the world cup just because they were on there home ground, England deed the same. It only happened once for each of the teams. I am not sure how many times these teams got to the final even, did it happen?

Holland on the other side had that magic side: van Basten, Gullit, Ryikard, Cooman, not to mention history, which I saw only from recordings.

My point is that I would like to appriciate every team, but I somehow dislike when hosts win it. I just get the feeling that it is not complitly fair. (Even though South Corea try to prove the opposite quite hard

)

Any way cheers to all teams that still have a chance (even to the Czechs),

P.S. I'dd actually suggest that every championship or even CL and UC final is organized in Portugal, they seem to be very friendly to others lately

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: Lyonnais Date: 19-06-2006, 00:28	Lupta, you didn't offend me. You have the right to think that France didn't deserve its title in 1998 (who would have deserved it ? Netherlands ?) but it seemed to me inaccurate to say that the team did nothing after 1998. This is just what I wanted to point out.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 19-06-2006, 13:06

Lupta_Steaua

Being on home ground does give you a big advantage - home support has to be a huge help. You also have at least two years to prepare your team for the finals without the worry of qualification. But home advantage doesn't make a bad team win the World Cup. France were deserved winners in 1998.

For this World Cup - if Germany have carried their horseshoe luck from 2002 forward then this World Cup will pan out as follows:

England produce a great performance to thrash Sweden and Trinidad sneak a narrow victory against already eliminated Paraguay.

R2 Germany v Trinidad.

In R2 Mexico stun Argentina (or Holland?) by holding them to a 0-0 draw and proceeding on penalties.

QF Germany v Mexico

Who is waiting in the semi-finals. Well it could be the Group E winner (possibly Italy but just as likely Ghana or the Czech Republic). It could be the Group F runner-up (probably Croatia or Australia). It could be the Group G winner - now looking likely to be Switzerland or South Korea. Or it could be the Group H runner-up - most likely Ukraine or Tunisia.

Or maybe this year the horseshoe has been handed to Italy? First they are on the wrack against the USA - who end up with 9 men. Probably the referee made correct decisions but somehow all the American misdemeanours put together didn't match De Rossi's one disgraceful act. Just the sort of thing you want to see to restore the "good name" of Italian football.

Next they must face a Czech team who I'd normally back to kick them out of the tournament but this Czech team are now missing three strikers... Then it might be Australia. Uh, oh Hiddink again in the Last 16? Ruud Gullit did come up with a classic quote on ITV the other day that Hiddink is so lucky "he has a horseshoe the size of a house" so maybe one horseshoe beats another?

Assuming Italy do pass this test it will then probably be one of South Korea, Switzerland, Ukraine and Tunisia in the quarter-finals- all of whom would be highly delighted to have reached such a stage in the tournament....

Of course none of this may happen. I certainly hope not! Maybe England has the horseshoe this year? Maybe Argentina, Spain or Holland will continue to sweep all comers away (horseshoe or no horseshoe?)

The beauty of the World Cup is that we can surmise for hours but will only really know when the games are over...

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: Ricardo Date: 19-06-2006, 14:37	Reading this - like I saw befoer in the schedule, I wonder who will be stopping this Argentina to reach the final.... In the other half there will be England, Brasil, Ghana, Spain, Holland, Portugal...

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 19-06-2006, 14:55
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 19-06-2006, 17:43

I think playing at home is an advantage and if the home team is good enough it can be a decisive advantage. Uruguay, Italy, England, Germany, Argentina and France have all won a World Cup while playing at home.

Uruguay - 1930: the home team wins the World Cup
Italy - 1934: the home team wins the World Cup
France - 1938: France is knocked-out by Italy in the QF. Still it is the best performance of France thus far at the World Cup. Italy goes on to win the Cup.
Brazil - 1950: at their second World Cup, Brazil loses the Cup in the decisive match against Uruguay. Worth mentioning that there was no actual final at this World Cup, but the Uruguay - Brazil decisive match is widely accepted as the final of the tournament.
Switzerland - 1954: Switzerland manages to reach the QF but loses to Austria; they equal their 1934 and 1938 performance.
Sweden - 1958: Sweden reaches the final but loses 5-2 to Brazil. The world enters the Pele era.
Chile - 1962: the home team reaches an unexpected SF and then goes to finish third in the World Cup.
England - 1966: the home team wins the World Cup.
Mexico - 1970: Mexico reaches its first QF in history.
Germany - 1974: the home team wins the World Cup.
Argentina - 1978: the home team wins the World Cup.
Spain - 1982: the home team reaches the Second Round (last 12)
Mexico - 1986: Mexico reaches the QF for the second time
Italy - 1990: Italy reaches the SF and then finishes third in the World Cup.
USA - 1994: The United States reach the round of 16 and are defetead by Brazil who goes on to win the World Cup.
France - 1998: the home team wins the World Cup.
South Korea/Japan - 2002: Japan reaches the last 16 phase and South Korea reaches the SF. In both cases best ever performance.

To sum it up - in 17 World Cups the home team has:
-won the World Cup - 6 times
-reached the final - 2 times
-finnished 3rd - 2 times
-reached the semi-final - 1 time
-reached the quarter-final - 4 times
-reached the last 12 phase - 1 time
-reached the last 16 phase - 2 times
-never been eliminated in the first round

Is this enough to draw a conclusion? Judge for yourself.

Author: ferdi
Date: 19-06-2006, 18:03
Edited by: ferdi
at: 19-06-2006, 19:18

apw wrote:

{i>still if always seems to be England's fate to be glorious in failure at major tournaments{/i>

This is well-known as the {a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060606/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_soccer_world_curse"
> curse of Wembley 1966{/a>

(The link refers to a Reuters notice. I post it although I have to disagree with the last sentence which says that German viewers "had the last laugh". This might have been a common feeling in the second half of the last century, but meanwhile it is replaced by a feeling of deep sympathy for Englands misery. After all, it was not England's fault that the non-goal was given by the referees.)

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: executor Date: 19-06-2006, 18:58	@badgerboy Eriksson loves his native country too much to risk their elimination. Besides nobody in both England and Sweden would blame him if the game ends with a draw. Not to mention it would not be the first time Sweden plays a....errr...."friendly" game at a final tournament Oh! And the president of UEFA will also be....upset if Sweden doesn't go through....

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: panda Date: 19-06-2006, 19:04	To be honest, I don't see there is need for conspiracy theory. I think TnT will be pushed to beat Paraguay well enough. They need to get a GD swing of 3 minimum.

Author: exile
Date: 19-06-2006, 23:53

I agree with Guiseppe

We can ignore the following World Cups where the hosts
were not a force in World football at the time of the tournament

38,54,58,62,70,82,86,94,02

Even in those cases the hosts reached the final (58)
semis (62 and 02) and quarters (70 and 86)

Apart from that the hosts have been winners or finalists
except for 90 when Italy lost on penalties in the semis.

That is if a "big" team hosts the tournament - it will almost certainly get to the final.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 20-06-2006, 13:49

Trinidad's chances of beating Paraguay probably depend a lot on Paraguay's attitude. Do they want to restore pride or - as they are off home - don't they care.

A draw between England and Sweden would be a fairly predictable result (even without conspiracy theories). It's hard to know how England will approach the game. All the pundits say they need a big performance to increase confidence, which is true enough but at the end of the day they are through and I don't see any of the already qualified teams breaking their necks in the final game. In addition most people assume Germany will beat Ecuador but again - both teams are through so why break your neck? Most people also expect Argentina to win Group C and this seems likely to me also - given both the strength of Argentina's "reserves" and the fact Holland have a lot of players on yellow cards. Do Germany really want to go all out against Ecuador in order to set up a possible meeting with Argentina in the Q-Finals? If Germany do fail to beat Ecuador what do England do? A lot of people say England want to win the group to avoid Germany so if Germany fail to beat Ecuador should England want to lose?

Personally I'm caught in the horns of a dilemma. I actually wanted England to finish second in the group (thus avoiding Brazil or Spain until the final) but I do think a good performance is needed against Sweden and maybe avoiding Argentina in the quarter-finals is even more important given how the tournament has started...

"Worst case" scenario for England. They win the group but both Argentina and Germany don't meaning the path to the final might be Germany/Argentina/Brazil or Spain. "Best case" - England are second as are both Germany and Argentina. Path to the final could be Ecuador/Holland/Italy or any number of alternative semi-finalists - this quarter of the draw seems most likely to provide the "surprise" team - right now I'd say the team that comes through the Croatia/Australia match could be it especially if that team is Croatia.
"Best case" is not to say that most people aren't still underrating Ecuador or that Holland wont be a tough team for anyone to beat - just looking for the lesser evil really...

Author: apw
Date: 20-06-2006, 14:56

I actually thought this world cup was going to see the big name teams dominate, but now it is quite interesting
It is very likely that we will see a Ghana v Australia last 16 game, if Czech & Italy draw and Ghana win in group E & Australia avoid defeat v Croatia.
Then we could see a Korea v Tunisia last 16 game, If both win their last group game.
Then 1 of those 4 would end up in the Semi Finals against possibly Germany or Argentina, for Germany to get that semi final game they would have to win their group.
But as i have said in an earlier post surely to be World Champions you should just beat whoever is put in front of you and the only team at the moment after 2 games who lead me to believe they can are Argentina, but knock-out football who knows !

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: skivaz Date: 20-06-2006, 15:13 Edited by: skivaz at: 20-06-2006, 15:15	i would not say that 'is very likely' that Ghana will beat USA with the contemporary draw between Italy and Tcheck Rep., is possible I agree, but Italy and Tcheck (especially this one) cannot afford to tie, first because they want to avoid Brazil, and second because in the case of the Tcheck they would be eliminated... that game i think will have a winner...

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: badgerboy Date: 20-06-2006, 15:20	...and I hope (but am not confident) that winner will be the Czechs. First team news. Ecuador are resting five players for the Germany match so although their coach said yesterday they are "determined" to top the group I guess their determination is not so great.

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: skivaz Date: 20-06-2006, 15:24	badgerboy, can i ask you why? what do you have against italy? unless you are Tcheck, then forgive me...

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: panda Date: 20-06-2006, 15:25 Edited by: panda at: 20-06-2006, 15:26	I thought Germany was resting 5 players. Maybe both teams are. yes, badgerboy, what do you have against Italy? I agree the best result for BOPTH eng and ger might be to be 2nd in the groups. But too much second-guessing can fail too....

Author: apw
Date: 20-06-2006, 17:36

Imagine if :

1/ Trinidad qualify so play Germany in last 16
2/ Holland win group C Play Mexico runner up Groud D - Mexico Wins
3/ Ghana v Australia last 16
4/ South Korea v Tunisia last 16
5/ Q/F Germany v Mexico & 2 of the above in Q/F
6/S/F Germany v Ghana or Australia or Tunisia or South Korea !

So Germany would play, Trinidad & Tobago, Mexico & maybe Korea.
Remember this is Football anything is possible, if we could all predict matches we'd either be millionaires or Italian - LOL

Author: MalcolmW
Date: 20-06-2006, 18:32

... and, of course, if England meet and beat Germany this could be their path to the final.
From the team's viewpoint it is best to take each game as it comes - without focusing on how easy the other path may be. It is unfortunate that both Lampard and Gerrard have yellow cards before the third match when the perception is that both will be needed for the fourth. Equally, with 3 goalkeepers present and Robinson in fine form it is wrong not to field one of the others in the third match. If Robinson gets injured during a knock-out game the substitute will have a more difficult task coming on without having played in several weeks.
I have no doubt how Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger or Allardyce would approach this match, but Eriksson appears to let the senior players make decisions. Then again, as a Swede he is on a loser in this one as many casual onlookers think he is benefitting his native land even by resting one player!

Author: badgerboy
Date: 20-06-2006, 18:49
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 20-06-2006, 18:54

Well Germany were good enough to thrash Ecuador reserves with some of the players who were on the pitch (De La Cruz) seemingly more concerned at not getting booked than defending properly. I guess that tells us approximately nothing about their real chances in the tournament but the increased confidence from a few straight forward wins can only help their cause (remember the Saudis in 2002?).

What do I have against Italy? Not a straight forward question to answer. I have a general preference to see the traditional footballing powers beaten - that's the first thing. Second I like the Czech team ethic (or perhaps it is the Karol Bruckner ethic) very much. I loved watching them at Euro 2004 for example.

I guess in general the three footballing powers I most like to see beaten are Germany, Argentina and Italy. The first two are mainly down to general footballing rivalry with England though I also dislike the general German dour style and the Argentinian propensity for diving and cheating. The third because (since 1982 when I actually remember cheering for Italy!) I haven't liked their footballing style either.

In the current World Cup despite my personal likes and dislikes I could actually applaud an Argentinian or German victory - the Argentinians are playing simply outstanding football and the German attacking style is also refreshing though I can't see them being good enough. Italy haven't given me any reason yet to change my natural inclination to wish them ill luck (indeed De Rossi's elbow has only strengthened it). I guess I also fear (as well as dislike) the "traditional powers" that just creep through qualification and might be aided by the draw to go far in the tournament. Again - if a team is playing great football like Argentina then (although it's still good to see them lose) I'm happy to see them progress until they meet a better side (if indeed they ever do) but if a team is going to "bumble their way through" I'd rather it was a surprise team.

I should add this is just my personal preference for (or against) a football team. Nothing personal to any Italians or anyone else on this forum.

Author: MalcolmW
Date: 20-06-2006, 19:39

I too would like to see a good footballing team win. If that is Argentina, Germany or Holland so be it. I'd rather see Brazil go down because they are overhyped yet again. Though the way they played with 10 men and a statue (OK a good one) against Australia suggests they just might rise to the level necessary round by round.
For outside long shots to perform consider what the scores might have been if the Czech and SCG 'keepers had been exchanged:
Argentina 1-0 SCG and Ghana 6-0 Czech Republic?
Personally I have been impressed by Australia. They chose to take the game to Brazil to chance an equaliser, rather than battening down the hatches and settling for 1-0. And they are living the dream, so maybe their coach really will get another improbable semifinalist!?!

Author: panda
Date: 20-06-2006, 20:07

When the last 16 are all known, it will be interesting to see if some paths are easier than others but with key results (esp Arg-Holl) unknown the speculation does not yet work very well.

Also, I think plenty of teams (aided by different selections) have played pretty unevenly - Ecuador is an obvious example, they seemed not bothered today.

I am afraid I am very narrow in my thinking here - I love seeing the variety of styles and of cultures, there is no doubt that WC is the best sports event the world has, but at the same time, once England goes out, it never feels the same; it's like I am then watching something to which I do not 'belong' - maybe it's easier to come from a small nation that seldom or never qualifies, and then you can just enjoy the feast of football.

Author: ignjat63
Date: 20-06-2006, 20:13

"am afraid I am very narrow in my thinking here - I love seeing the variety of styles and of cultures, there is no doubt that WC is the best sports event the world has, but at the same time, once England goes out, it never feels the same; it's like I am then watching something to which I do not 'belong' - maybe it's easier to come from a small nation that seldom or never qualifies, and then you can just enjoy the feast of football."

panda, believe me, it has nothing to do with belonging to a small nation which seldom or never qualifies. What you feel is just good old "Oh my God, we have lost and now we are out" feeling.Nobody likes being out, and belonging to a small nation does not make it easier to bear. Oh well, there is always next time...

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: panda Date: 20-06-2006, 20:17	@ignjat63 OK- I rephrase - maybe better to come from somewhere that NEVER qualifies. The feeling of being out- which I know you are suffering is terrible. Everything is flat; everyone is taking down the flags off their cars and houses etc, and thinking if only.....

Author: ignjat63
Date: 20-06-2006, 20:31

Well, now that you mention it...

Here in Serbia we all knew that our team is worse than Holland and Argentina, and we knew that just coming to Germany is a success for us. So we did not have much expectations, really.

But what hurts is their disinteresting manner in Argentina match. As if the players just did not care and did not have any pride. So we get angry but then we say: What am I losing my wits about? Those morons earn unbelievable sum of money and I am working my butt off for change. So screw them. That is how we feel at the moment.

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: Ricardo Date: 20-06-2006, 21:57	they just showed some figures how much some people eradne per day Beckham: 120.000 Euro Zidane 70.000 Euro And then some less forutnate teams: Ahn 2.700 Well that's still costing me a month to earn...

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: Giuseppe Date: 20-06-2006, 22:22	I'd be more interested how much the players from Angola make. Particularly the ones from Aviacao or Pedro Atletico

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: executor Date: 20-06-2006, 23:00	The Swedes really like that 2-2...And the goal in the 90th min was a nice touch Seriously now, GREAT atmosphere when the anthem was played (compared only to that created by the Germans), Terrible luck with Michael Owen, FANTASTIC Joe Cole, entertaining game overall. They have my full support.

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 20-06-2006, 23:21

congrats to the Germans, the English and the Swedes. 3 good teams that are entertaining to watch.

Ricardo > at least Anh is a professional player. By the other, is he playing in Duisburg ? because his integration in Metz was not that succesful, this is the least we can say.
Some other players, such as the one playing for Togo and for a village in France in 6th or 7th level are purely amateur. We understand why they are in conflict with their federation to get the few dozens of thousands euros they fully deserve.

Author: saibot
Date: 21-06-2006, 12:14

As a german I am quite surprised by the way "we" play, too.
But I think that this tournament would be a perfect opportunity to make it up with the football-world for all the times "we" sneaked our way into the final.
Germans playing well but losing would be a scenario not known since 1970.
But I fear, that kind of scenario would cause voices here in Germany, who claim that all that matters is success. And the successor of Klinsmann would return to the old well-known and boring style.

Author: panda
Date: 22-06-2006, 19:19
Edited by: panda
at: 22-06-2006, 19:25

Hosts.

I just read an interesting article saying (very plausibly) not only do hosts enjoy familiarity and support, but also there is kind of a territorial instinct which applies also to sport, so home team gets 'extra energy' to do so. It also says, that in EPL, away wins have risen from 19% in 1999 to 27% in 2005 (I think), indicating that coaching or whatever is changing things a bit.

As for sides playing entertaining or not - I think you often don't know. England have certainly been both entertaining and embarrassing so far. Italy I thought were not boring (probably helped to play against 10, though) today.

On form and entertainment, so far I would vote (if I were neutral) for Spain v Arg final. (which fits in with the theme of this topic!!)

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: iwan Date: 22-06-2006, 19:26	By the way, it's sure now England and Argentina don't can meet each-otter before the final!!

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: Ricardo Date: 22-06-2006, 20:37	What about the supporters. For the next round only 3000 tickets are available for the Dutch. Not enough for the Dutch FA to give to their relations (that they have to according to their contract!) S. 5% Dutch, 5% Portuguese and 90%....Germans??? I can imagine that there is a home advantage

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: Ricardo Date: 23-06-2006, 15:09	I found it by the way very strange to see Juninho in a yellow shirt. I am used to him in Black.. but the face and the moves were familiar ;(

Re: England has no chance against this Argentina
Author: Lyonnais Date: 23-06-2006, 16:40 Edited by: Lyonnais at: 23-06-2006, 16:42	Ricardo, based on what happened in 1998, I don't believe that the 90% remaining seats are for the local population. I guess that sponsors and VIP have most of them (which is certainly disgusting from a fan perspective).