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Author: cska
Date: 16-06-2006, 14:54

I think that the rules on WC for GD to be decider are better. If H-to-H is used, then in some cases teams will have no incentive to play - they can lock 1-0 versus a weak team and wait out the match to end. Also, other teams will be disappointed if their last match is not important because H-to-H already decided against them. GD gives uncertainty and ambitions to play till the very last match, while H-to-H kills the wish to score goals.

Author: panda
Date: 18-06-2006, 17:54

It may also be (as per the other thread on this topic), in groups of 4, GD does give more interest than HtH. It's impossible for all issues to be settled before the final set of matches (you can easily have 2 qfy and 2 not, but in that case the order of the 2 qfy is not fixed, and the 'dead' match of course is played simultaneously with the live one.

I guess that often HtH and GD produce the same result since in the case of an HtH DRAW, you go to GD anyway, usually.

But an excellent example from last night. Ghana v CZ.

Ghana miss penalty but win 2-0. They may rue the miss. Because as it stands, CZ's GD is one better, if both teams draw final match, CZ goes through

Had Ghana scored, their GD extra +1, CZ, extra -1, GHA go through if both final matches are draw.

If it had been HtH, GHA would go through on draw even now - but would have to be careful that CZ did not win; if CZ won and GHA draw, then it would have been IT 2nd place on HtH.

As it stands with GD, if GHA can only draw, IT would need to lose by 2 goals (and then it comes down to goals scored, where IT is currently leading by 1) to get same GD, and to lose by 3 or more goals for GHA definitely to go through.

One other point that is clearly in favour of GD, but it may not be very 'worthy.' If the system is GD, then it is instantly possible to tell the situation by looking at a league table, without looking at the history of results. With HtH, you might have to refer to what happened before (depending on if the deciding matches have yet happened). In domestic leagues, with lots of fixtures, this makes GD a much easier system to understand, especially as with multiple teams on same points, you do not have to calculate multiple HtH.

Re: GD better than H-to-H as decider if equal points
Author: MalcolmW Date: 18-06-2006, 18:01	Look what happens if England 2-0 Sweden and Trinidad & Tobago 1-0 Paraguay.

Re: GD better than H-to-H as decider if equal points
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 18-06-2006, 20:28	@MalcolmW In that case there will be a draw of lots (between Sweden and T&T) to decide who is 2nd in group B.

Author: exile
Date: 18-06-2006, 22:32
Edited by: exile
at: 18-06-2006, 22:32

The problem with GD is that you can get the Spain-Malta situation from 1984 where a team has to win by 11 goals in this case and succeeds, rather a farcical situation. This can be made less of a problem with simultaneous kickoffs but could still happen.
At least with H to H the top teams have more of an incentive to get positive results against each other and not against the weaker teams.

Of course with H to H Scotland would have reached round 2 in the World Cups of 74 and 78 but that has no bearing on my opinion!

Author: cska
Date: 19-06-2006, 08:47

@exile
Yes, Spain-Malta 12-1 was a good example, but has nothing to do with GD as decider. You may ask "why". Because it was the last match in the group after all other teams finished with their matches. If both Spain and Holland had a match on the same day, it would have been impossible for Spain to fix the match. On the other hand, if H-to-H was used, Spain and Holland would have had no incentive to play at all, because everything would have been decided before the match. And Spain would play for 1-0 in any case (if they win on H-to-H, why should they play for 12-1, if they lose on H-to-H, why to play at all).

Re: GD better than H-to-H as decider if equal points
Author: psw Date: 19-06-2006, 09:46	I would prefer more complex scheme in the case when only 2 teams were involved. Namely, use GD in the case of draw or when one team lost with goal difference of 1. And use HtH otherwise.

Re: GD better than H-to-H as decider if equal points
Author: ywann Date: 19-06-2006, 10:43	French should be extremly happy for GD being the tie-breaker, after last night game. In H to H case, their destiny wouldn't be in their hands anymore, and they could end like Italians at EC'04.

Re: GD better than H-to-H as decider if equal points
Author: panda Date: 19-06-2006, 17:45	GD made the last part of Switzerland-Togo very good- Togo of course needed to score, but Switz also knew that if they could score a second goal, it would have a big effect by giving them better GD than SK.