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Author: cska
Date: 13-06-2006, 09:09

Dear all,
This is not a stupid question. If we read the rules as they are written, we may draw the conclusion that either no replacement team will enter R3 and R2 winner wins by default versus the already drawn Italian team, or that another team from R3 pool countries must replace Palermo. However, what is the criteria that Auxerre enters, while teams from upper rank countries that may have requested entries are dropped out. I.e., teams from Spain, England or Germany would be interested. So, what is the criterion that the French team enters ? And also, if the primary rule is that ALL countries have max 1 team in UIC, then why is France allowed a 2nd team ?

Re: Question about ITC rules - why Auxerre ???
Author: Ricardo Date: 13-06-2006, 09:20	ask Uefa. (As you might have read in the Intertot thread - there are a lot of theories, a lot of don't understand, but Uefa is the only one who knows)

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 13-06-2006, 11:27

@cska

Spain and England probably didn't subsribe for a 2nd spot in Intertoto (maybe because they thought that the 2nd team had to start in R1, and no team from Spain and England wanted to start so early?). So then France is the next country in line. And they probably did subsribe for a 2nd spot.

But I think that there should be some Spanish or English teams that do want to start in R3, so in that way it is strange that Auxerre gets it and not Deportivo for example.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 13-06-2006, 12:17

It's all very strange - or more precisely UEFA seem to have cocked things up. Whether the cock-up is in badly writing the regulations in the first place or failing to adhere to them once they were written is open to debate.

Article 1.03 states: "If, before the start of the competition, any places become vacant in the three different competition groupings (first, second or third round), they will be allocated to the best-placed associations in the coefficient rankings of the relevant grouping which have expressed their interest in any such vacancies.
Any place made available by a vacancy will be allocated to the first round of the competition"

Someone did raise the question of what UEFA meant by "start of the competition". I think they (or maybe someone else) also answered the same question. If "start of the competition" meant before the draw shouldn't an additional place at least have been offered to one of the "Round 3 associations" when Portugal pulled out - even if including Andorra increased the number of participating teams to 50?
It seems more likely that "start of the competition" means when R1 kicks off (or maybe deadline day of June 5). The fact that Inverness CT were told they were "top of the reserve list", are a R2 team and expected to start in R1 would support this.

So, I can see no justification for Auxerre (or anyone else for that matter) being offered a place direct into R3. Interestingly the regs. (Article 1.05) also entitle the UEFA Administration to grant exceptions to Article 1.02 (number of participants per national association) and Article 1.04 (finishing within four places of UEFA Cup qualification) but no mention of exceptions to Article 1.03...

So, it seems UEFA are going to ignore their own Article 1.03 as it's definitely too late now to change the draw and have any replacement team entering in R1. My view is that since they are ignoring that article - based on which I would assume the Spanish and English FAs did not "express an interest" in a second Intertoto place they should go back to those FAs and ask them again based on the new situation. If they did that I would expect Deportivo (or possibly another Spanish club) to take the place and Auxerre (and unfortunately Bolton) to miss out....

Re: Question about ITC rules - why Auxerre ???
Author: Nick Date: 13-06-2006, 16:17	On the other hand there is something really strange going on. Auxerre is on the IT site, but the UEFA site still has the place at To Be Confirmed. Obviously UEFA is trying to find a backdoor for Auxerre but has not managed to do it yet, because otherwise I don't see why they wouldn't confirm it on the UEFA site. Same thing with PAOK, Atromitos and Larissa.

Author: Malko
Date: 14-06-2006, 19:28

First, when you speak of higher-ranked nations than France, okay for Italy, England and Spain, but not germany which is really lower ranked.....
Now, as I know, there is a special ranking for Intertoto, because some nations often didn't participate (Italy.....). This ranking determined the number of teams engaged in UI-Cup, and therefore France always had the maximum of teams, because i France is in Top of this ranking (normal, cause the midfield in france is stronger than in other countries, where the Top-teams may be slightly stronger than the french topteams....except Lyon now).
So, the qualificationof AJA is quite logical

Re: Question about ITC rules - why Auxerre ???
Author: Floridian Date: 14-06-2006, 19:41 Edited by: Floridian at: 14-06-2006, 19:42	@Malko I have not seen any mention of "special" Intertoto cup ranking before. For 2006 split of countries between rounds was perfectly aligned with official UEFA ranking used for CL and UC. Do you have any link or file showing separate UIC ranking?

Re: Question about ITC rules - why Auxerre ???
Author: Nick Date: 14-06-2006, 20:03	UEFA uses the official CL and UEFA ranking for IT seeding purposes. At least they pretend to do so in their own rules. Not that they always obey them as the Auxerre case shows

Author: MalcolmW
Date: 14-06-2006, 23:14

June 15th almost over ... and no news about Auxerre?

Nothing about any of this has appeared on Bolton's website at all. I had reason to speak to thr club office last Friday on other matters and it was all news to the guy I was talking to.

I suspect that Spain and England both opted for 1 entry only, on the basis that no club would be willing to start on June 17th, but that France opted for 2 entries on the basis that anything could happen. Their past record in IT may have encouraged them to do so, but I doubt that UEFA bent rules to favour France/Auxerre.

Bolton's chairman is at WC now and then in Australia in later stages. Manager is also in Germany, working part-time with ITV as a pundit. A June start was never feasible for Bolton, though they were prepared to start in round 3 in they had finished high enough to qualify at season's end.
The English League Cup gives an extra round's exemption to 8 clubs, which balances entries neatly (72 in 1st round; 36 + 12 = 48 in 2nd round; 24 + 8 = 32 in 3rd round). A second IT entry would be the 9th club involved in Europe and would not be exempted.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 15-06-2006, 01:58

MalcolmW

On the English League Cup - I think they exempt however many teams have qualified for European football until the League Cup 3rd round. Last year it was eight, the year before it was seven. I guess they could adjust the draw for nine easily enough.

I must admit I hadn't noticed that Intertoto entry gave you the exemption. I thought you actually had to qualify for the UEFA Cup. But since Newcastle got a bye last year I guess that isn't the case....