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Author: executor
Date: 30-04-2006, 09:56

Dear users of this forum,

I would like to draw your attention to the incredible things that are happening in Romania's Divizia A. Last night there was an unbelievable game between Dinamo and Sportul Studenţesc which ended 4-5! That was not the first time a game between these two teams was rich in goals. In 2003 Sportul-Dinamo ended 5-6!! After that match, Ioan Andone, coach of Dinamo, said that he was shocked by the way the 2 teams played: "All the players of both teams were in offence and nobody in defence. It was like a highschool game".
Last night I was the witness of a game one rarely sees. Sportul were leading at half time 3 goals to 0 ({a href="http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=41582&p=2">0-1{/a>, {a href="http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=41585&p=2">0-2{/a>, {a href="http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=41586&p=2">0-3{/a>). The 2nd half was a treat for football fans. Dinamo were attacking desperately and Sportul were counterattacking with fury. The result? First {a href="http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=41591&p=2">1-3{/a>, then
{a href="http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=41592&p=2">1-4{/a> and Sportul looked they will win the game easily. BUT, although their attack is execellent, their defence is a little shaky. So Dinamo scored 2 goals in quick succesion {a href="http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=41593&p=2">2-4{/a>, {a href="http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=41594&p=2">3-4{/a>. And then something incredible happend!!! What do you think a team that's leading 4-3 away will do with 10 min left? Yes, stick their behinds in their own goal (an eloquent example is Middlesbrough-Steaua). But not Sportul. Their coach was shouting at them because there were too many players in Dinamo half and too few in defence!!! They were attacking as if they were 1 goal down. And the final minutes were breath-taking. Dinamo equaled {a href="http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=41596&p=2">4-4{/a> in 90th min. But their joy lasted only for one minute, because in 91st min it was {a href="http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=41597&p=2">4-5{/a>!! There were 5 min of added time and, trust me, there were too few. Each team had a huge opportunity to score an extra goal. When the referee blew his final whistle I was both sad that a game has only 90 min, but also happy to be witness to such a wonderfull match. 3 min after the game Sportul's coach was rushed to the hospital (luckly there is one right next to the stadium) because he was one step from heart-attack. But don't worry, he's fine now

.
At this moment Sportul is the leader. Of course tonight is the big game Steaua-Rapid. If that ends in a draw, Sportul will have the some amount of points as the two teams that conquered Europe. (Steaua does have two extra games in hand). After the first half of the championship they were on 9th place!! From this point of view they could be compared to Rennes

; in the second half of the champioship they have 8 wins 1 draw and 1 loss. I can't wait for the Sportul-Steaua and Rapid-Sportul!

The reason for this topic is to show you that there still are "romantic" teams in football, that don't play for money, love to attack no matter the score and to delight the audience. I think I really want them to win the championship. I don't care they will be unseeded, or that the won't bring too many points. I think Europe needs to see teams like that. I don't know if any of you played Heroes IV, but Sportul can be compared to the Berserkers: uncontrollable, f**k defence, all on the offence.

Sorry for the long topic. I'm still euphoric

Re: Sportul Studenţesc
Author: badgerboy Date: 30-04-2006, 10:45	Excellent post. I just looked up yesterday's results on Soccerway and was hoping for some background information on an incredible scoreline! It really does look like the fourth team of Bucharest has the chance to take one of the European spots!

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 30-04-2006, 10:53
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 30-04-2006, 10:59

I admit it was a spectacular match, but I'm not that euphoric. In fact I'm praying that they don't qualify for Europe next season because their owner will surely sell half the team (or more!) and will bring no one in return. It would be a disaster in terms of coefficient (at least they could make a few points in the QR against Andorra and the likes

).
This guy (team owner Vasile Siman) couldn't care less about performance; if he did Sportul Studentesc could have won a few trophies by now with the kind of players they had. The only thing he cares is money and the recipe is simple: take a teenager from the youth team (or from any lower division team for as little or no money as possbile), pay him as little money as possible (since he's a teeanger you can even attempt to buy him out with cell phones and CD's

), give him the opportunity to (relatively) develop for a year or two in the first team and then sell him at anything between 200.000 and 1.000.000 Euros. That's no way to make performance in football. Mark my words - they will be battling relegation next year!

Author: panda
Date: 30-04-2006, 11:40

Yes, good issue - is it possible (unless one has a team entirely of world-class players, thus, e.g. we expect the Brazl national side to play beautiful football always) to combine 'romantic' and success.

In England there have been a number of failed examples e.g. management of Keegan at Newcastle, where scores like 4-3 were quite common.

However, when good teams are on a good day, with pass / movement, then we often see wonderful football / matches, often many goals.

The problem is just this - to maintain success over a season (or even in a cup run, e.g. you are 1-0 up from the first leg), club almost always chooses success over beauty SOMETIMES.

Author: executor
Date: 30-04-2006, 12:27

@Giuseppe

Allow me to disagree. Sportul has sold players by the ton. Last year they sold one of the top scorers of Divizia A and everybody said it will be the end of them. This years looks likely Sportul will give Divizia A another top scorer and he will most likely pack his bags and leave. Probably some of his team mates will do the same. But Sportul has an incredible youth center. And just as Bucur was replaced by Mazilu, so will the latter be replaced by another youngster (Varga, Curelea, or someone still unknown).
Another example of performance without funding is FC Naţional. 3 years ago they played the Cup final. This year it's the same. But do you know what's interesting? No player from 3 years ago is in today's squad. NO ONE! They've exchanged an entire team and still manage to have success. And that's what I think will happen to Sportul.
And about the coefficient: we're on 10th place, 95% sure to have a team in CL GS next year. Even you said it will be hard to have 6 teams in Europe. So I don't care anymore about rankings. I just want to see them in Europe. I just hope Şiman will be wise enough not to sell them untill they're out of European cups.

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 30-04-2006, 13:09

I really hope you're right and I'm wrong as this is the kind of issue where I would prefer to be wrong.
Maybe Steaua and Rapid can bring enough points next year to make up for a third team that might not succed, but what if Sportul qualifies for Europe band Şiman (or Siman - it seems to me that this site doesn't have support for Romanian diacritics

) decides to sell his best players? Would it be fair to see them in Europe without the players that brought them there? I don't know...
As for the other part of this thread - romantic football and succes - I think modern football and 'romantic football' don't really mix, at least not as long as you're also looking for succes. If you're looking for succes you won't care that much about the romance of football and if you're looking for romance in football you won't care about succes because you're most probably playing in a county level tournament.

Re: Sportul Studenţesc
Author: executor Date: 30-04-2006, 14:21	Yes, that's what I said. I'm hoping he will not sell them before exiting Europe. They'll be worth more after. About "diacritics", just select "Central European" from Encoding, like I do . Another interesting thing about the game: when Gigi Mulţescu (coach of Sportul) was taken to the hospital, he had a pulse of 140 beats/min!! That's more than 2 beats/sec!! Poor man...

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 30-04-2006, 14:29

This kind of games are always very exciting. After all, football is all about emotion and fans enjoy these games altough the quality of football is not that good.

Some few years ago (at the end of the 90s), we had in France an incredible game too. Marseille was 0-4 down at home vs. Montpellier (at half time) and finally won the game 5-4.
Paris is a specialist of these games too, but as a victim

The lost to Deportivo 4-3 whereas they leading 3-0 and in the French Cup, they were leading 4-1 at the 80th minute vs. Clermont, a fourth division team, before losing at penalty kicks (4-4 after extra time).

Author: STK
Date: 30-04-2006, 14:31

Like Rapid and CFR Cluj showed that they can play well in Europe, if they are allowed to, why not other team like Sportul? I guess you like more the example of another romanian team playing constantly in Europe with mediocre results. An european spot means more responsability and less player sellings. Only in this way a team like Sportul can really progress and more competitive teams means more perspective for the future. Sorry to say but, many people are not fully aware about the manitude of the damage that current system produce to leagues like ours. If Sportul will not reach 2nd place this year, will probably dissapear, and i cannot stop thinking that if playing with teams like Osasuna in one of the qualification rounds, Osasuna has no chance of seeing the light of the UC competition.

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 30-04-2006, 15:51
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 30-04-2006, 15:52

Well I think the only way Sportul can progress is if the owner wants them to progress

.

@Lyonnais - Marseille isn't the only team that can win a match after being 4-0 down

. 5 or 6 years ago Dinamo was playing newly promoted (and quickly relgated) Foresta Suceava at home. In the 60th min. Dinamo was 4-0 up, but Foresta made a spectacular comeback to win the game 5-4! If I remember correctly Robert Nita (who later played for Rapid) scored 3 or 4 of the goals.

Author: Aliceag
Date: 30-04-2006, 17:09

Totally brainless and dull teams I say!!! F*** Defense?!? wHat kind of mentality is that??! I don't want to see that in europe!

a result of 4-3, 3-3, 4-4 is always a proof of NOT knowing how to play soccer. If I wanted that kind of results I'd play against computer PES or FIFA, that's simply unreal, and coaches who don't know what they're doing.

A REAL team, starts worrying about their defense. Nothing but a good defense. A thrilling game is holding a 0-0 until the 90' and then in a quick counter atack, ONE shot ONE goal, and giving no time to the opponent to strike back!! All about tatics, pragmatism and ball control. Who cares for ball throwing here and there and goals like rain?? that's why romania isn't going anywhere thinking like that and having fans thinking like that. Modern soccer is calculist and cold.

Sorry for being so dissonant, arrogant and counter spirit, but I like to keep my feet on the ground sometimes. After all I like Stockausen, Computers and numbers and charts... F*** Romeo and Juliet, that's old times :P

See Arsenal? That's what's bringing them to the final... remember milan 2 years ago, and even liverpool last year against juve?..

Author: Pelotas
Date: 30-04-2006, 17:39
Edited by: Pelotas
at: 30-04-2006, 17:40

In Belgium after MD32: 1) Anderlecht 66 points, 2) Standard 64 points.

Today on MD33: Both Gent-Anderlecht and Roeselare-Standard just ended in a 0-0 draw. I was watching the game in Roeselare and was getting info about the standings in Gent. I must say the games were both extremely exciting until the last minutes and I enjoyed watching although there were absolutely no goals.

Last month I went to see OHLeuven - KV Mechelen (second division) which ended in 3-2. With a scoreline going: 1-0 1-1 1-2 and then the last 5 minutes 2-2 and 3-2. It was loads of fun, surely because my team won :D

My point is: I can enjoy both a 0-0 and a high score game, but I must say 0-0 games can sometimes be boring if both teams don't create chances and play badly or there is no real pressure because the result is quite unimportant. However, the most dull matches are those that are settled after about 10 minutes, an example is Lierse - Moeskroen from last week, the score was 2-0 after 6 minutes and the game was over, nothing happened. Or Westerlo - Standard of a month ago where Standard scored after 11 SECONDS!!! Nothing happened anymore since Westerlo had nothing to play for in the league, only a free kick to make it 0-2 in the second half. Conclusion: nor the quality of the players, nor the amount of goals can easily determine how entertaining a match is, at least not for me.

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 30-04-2006, 18:12
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 30-04-2006, 18:14

/Totally brainless and dull teams I say/ - Brainless? Yeah

Dull? definitely not

/that's why Romania isn't going anywhere/ - isn't going anywhere? I would say that going from 26th to 10th can be at least called going somewhere.

You think all Romanian teams play like that? Boy are you're wrong... and it goes to show you shouldn't make such judgements when you don't have all the facts (especially when you say you're interested in numbers, statistics etc). I can understand why many people are so enthusiastic about Sportul Studentesc because they bring a bit of diversity in a league where probably 14 out of 16 teams have defense as their main target and most teams have an average of around 1 goal scored per match.

Author: executor
Date: 30-04-2006, 18:36

Well, if you think watching Arsenal NOT receiving a goal is fun...go ahead. I must tell, though, I didn't want to watch the semifinal that involved the London team precicesly because of that. I knew it would end 0-0, so it became not interesting for me. I know Sportul isn't going to win trophies (probably not even the Romanian championship) (maybe the Cup next year

) but it's surely fun to watch them!

At this moment I'm pondering whether to watch CL final or not...Hmmm...what do you think?

Author: Aliceag
Date: 30-04-2006, 21:48

Executor if you want just goals and fun then watch Futsal or go to the circus. Of course you should see CL final it will be thrilling. I don't know if you should expect many goals but certainly it shall be entertaining. Or do you only vibrate with goals? What about dribbling, position in midfield, tackles, free kicks, etc??

About Romania not going anywhere just referring what happened with Steaua when trying to defend the 0-3 and getting 4-3... So I guess, Romanians REALLY have to learn how to defend!! Soccer is not all about attack...is about score one more goal than the opposite..and if you suffer NONE you always know you get points, while scoring doesn't guarantee you NOTHING. better 1-0 than to score 7 and suffer 8!

Author: executor
Date: 30-04-2006, 23:12

There are two philosophies in football:
1."The team that scores more goals than the opposing one wins" and
2."The team that receives less goals than the opposing one wins"
I honestly prefer the first one. Maybe because I get tired of seeing missed opportunities on and on. I like to see successes, not fails. I like to see the forwards outsmarting the defenders and not the other way arround. Yes, dribblings and tackles are fun, but for how long? It is sad that every goal is in fact a mistake of a defence. Nobody likes robots playing football. Yet

Author: panda
Date: 01-05-2006, 12:32

I believe that (fortunately for football fans) it is simply impossible to predict whether the match will beexciting or dull. there is even exciting-ish 0-0, 1-0 as well as terrible, dull, 0-0, 1-0. True some teams are more robot-like in general; but also there is the problem that the big occasion can both inspire (the two Middlesboro comebacks, Liverpool-Milan) or produce very timid performances (Arsenal 2nd leg v Villareal, Arsenal v real madrid 2nd leg, barcelona v Chelsea 2nd leg). This year in Europe, Arsenal have played both exciting and boring.

But we go to / watch the matches, for the HOPE to get BOTH - our team wins AND there is exciting football.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 01-05-2006, 15:22

Aliceag

You're not HIM are you?

Starting topics about how SPECIAL "you" are and now waxing lyrical about the 1-0 win

?

Of course as a spectator (especially a neutral) watching a game with lots of goals (or goal chances) is more exciting than watching a game where defense and midfield dominates and there are few shots on goal. As a coach this may be what you want - if your team is successful - for fans (non-neutral) who are starved of success then winning this way is probably OK too - at least at first.

Chelsea are a good example of this. The coach himself said at the weekend he should be "enjoying himself" more. Maybe now after two title triumphs where winning was everything a more cavalier style would increase his enjoyment?

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 01-05-2006, 16:10

@Aliceag - Steaua lost that match because in the second half they forgot how to attack. In a match like that attack is the best defense - keep the opponents busy at thier own end and they won't have time to score. Give the opponents the ball may result in them eventually scoring.
So are you really THE MAN himself, because now that I think about it you really sound much like him:
- praising Mourinho (or maybe yourself :P)
- glorifying defensive football
- telling others how much their team sucks
- acting as if you have all the secrets of football

Author: STK
Date: 01-05-2006, 18:41

totally off-topic ... i never seen a Chelsea's game with Jose Murihno as coach, not even when Adrian Mutu played at this team. This much i care about Chelsea and especially what his coach think it is or what he think he knows. In few years i will probably forget that a such club actually exists. The only way i will be forced to see a Chelsea's game is if they will meet a romanian team in an official game, but they are too lucky for that. This speaking about teams i will LOVE to see in the finals and semis.

Author: cska
Date: 02-05-2006, 11:39

Someone said that there are 0-0 or 1-0 matches which are boring and 0-0 or 1-0 matches which are very exciting. I agree.
But nobody said that there are 5-4 or 4-5 matches which are boring. All such matches are really exciting.
By the way, Aliceag, you are a Portuguese. I remember a match some years ago (maybe 10 or more) between Bayer Leverkusen and Benfica. It ended 4-4. Until 58 min it was 2-0. Then 2-3 only in 4 minutes. Then 4-3 in 7 minutes and then 4-4 only 5 minutes before the end.
None of the teams played foolishly. They only played with more desire to score instead of congesting the defensive wall.
By the way, this thread also answers to some pessimists whether there are more than three Romanian competitive teams. If you see the ranking table in Romania and find where their European triumphants stand and which teams are before or near them, then you can outline at least three more competitive teams.

Re: Sportul Studenţesc
Author: executor Date: 02-05-2006, 16:33	Things are getting serious! Sportul's owner promised EACH player a 30.000 $ bonus for winning the championship!! That's serious money in Romania! I believe the bonuses of Steaua or Rapid for the same objective are smaller than that.

Re: Sportul Studenţesc
Author: Nick Date: 05-05-2006, 07:48	Can someone of the romanian friends here tell me something about Costin Corelea? Apparently CSKA Sofia is going to sign him too thus having a romanian trio for next season (Trica, Petre, Corelea).

Re: Sportul Studenţesc
Author: executor Date: 05-05-2006, 10:56	It's Curelea. He's a younger player at Sportul with lot of potential. I think he's an attacking midfielder or a forward with construction duties. He doesn't have an impressive CV (yet), but in future he can develop nicely.

Re: Sportul Studenţesc
Author: executor Date: 05-05-2006, 11:55	In Romanian media they say that Plamen Markov, coach of CSKA Sofia, was presented at the Dinamo-Sportul game, where he noticed two players: Mazilu (of course ) and Grigorie (a midfielder of Dinamo). Because Mazilu is way too expensive for CSKA, he said he will focus on Grigorie. They don't say anything about Curelea.

Author: Nick
Date: 05-05-2006, 13:52
Edited by: Nick
at: 05-05-2006, 13:55

Yes, Markov was in fact in Bucharest to watch for new players. He was there together with chief manager Dimitar Penev. I don't think he was on the look for midfielders. Right now we have something like 10 class midfielders, so it's unlikely that we will buy even more. We need a right wing defender and maybe a class striker and a central defender.
Well, i guess we will see in the next 2 weeks which players he liked. Looks like CSKA is going to have s strong romanian connection in the next few years. I like this. Strangely enough Eugen Trica was the first ever romanian player to sign with CSKA.

Author: cska
Date: 05-05-2006, 14:11

Hm, this only shows what is the difference between growing young own talents and just going to buy good footballers if you don't have such in your club.
Recently, Romania was like Bulgaria: teams eliminated early in CL and UC, because even if they played well for a season, all good players were sold and the team quickly degraded enough to be eliminated. This lead to disastrous coefficients and poor ranking, which additionally motivated the team owners to sell out any good player.
Now, Romanian teams changed - they count on their youth schools, but try to retain their stars. CSKA on the opposite: not willing to grow youngsters and just thinking that problems are solved by buying skilled foreigners.
Just see Artmedia. They played so well in CL, but during winter they sold out all their big stars in order to survive the season (UEFA money come at the season end). And after beating Porto in CL, they degraded in winter and lost to Levski in spring.
I don't believe that CSKA has a good policy. I prefer the policy of Steaua. Obviously, it proved to be more efficient.