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Author: naaba
Date: 02-12-2005, 07:52
Edited by: naaba
at: 02-12-2005, 07:53

Who will get the 9th position at the end of the season ?
It's very close !
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2006.html

8 Greece 11.250 7.166 4.166 6.166 2.666 31.414 3/ 6
9 Russia 2.333 3.625 5.875 10.000 7.750 29.583 3/ 4
10 Belgium 5.875 6.875 5.875 6.125 4.750 29.500 2/ 4
11 Scotland 6.625 7.375 7.375 4.750 3.250 29.375 1/ 4
12 Ukraine 3.625 4.250 4.875 8.100 5.500 26.350 2/ 4

CSKA is nearly out.
Zenit and Lokomotiv are trough but they have no more match to play this year.

Anderlecht is out.
Brugge will go to UEFA Cup. But both Anderlecht and Brugge still have one match to play this year.

Rangers will at least play UEFA Cup 3rd round.

So, wo will be 9th at the end of the season ?

Author: Ricardo
Date: 02-12-2005, 09:26

My predictiomns say that Belgium ens up on the 8th spot, before Greece, Scotland and Russia.
But these predictions are based on old coefficients, so Brugge gets far because they have a high coefficent.
But it is up to the teams now, well the teams in Spring actualy. Still a long time from now..
If we look at the league matches of the teams involved:
Brugge, struggling to be in subtop, out of the DOmestic Cup
Rangers, almost sure out of CL next uear, they might even miss the UefaCup!
Lokomotiv: just missed CL-spot - ended 3rd
Zenit: ended 6th, no Europe next year (or maybe via the cup)

Non of these teams are doing fantastic, hard to make a choice. Bases on the 2 teams I would favour Russia.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Jeanito Date: 02-12-2005, 10:26	I hope it will be Russia. (Zenit 4 ever!) Still hope for CSKA..

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: emilien-charpantier Date: 02-12-2005, 12:23	maybe romania, why not ?

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Giuseppe Date: 02-12-2005, 14:04 Edited by: Giuseppe at: 02-12-2005, 14:05	post deleted

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Giuseppe Date: 02-12-2005, 14:04	@emilien-charpantier - My dear french friend, you are way too optimistic. The gap is too great between our current postion and the 8th spot, even if Romania gets all 3 teams in the next round.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: jessica-alba_81 Date: 02-12-2005, 14:46	I think that this topic is not open to discuss yet because the answer is clear:Greece Russia will pass them because they have at least 2 teams currently appearing(cska alsa has big advantage if dinamo looses in marseiile) and if they will have more than 8 points they can pass Greece(they have at least 6 more games)

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: naaba Date: 02-12-2005, 15:41	Don't forget that CSKA will be out if Heerenveen can beat Levski at home

Author: exile
Date: 02-12-2005, 15:47

My own prediction system based on coefficients (ie higher
coefficient team wins at home and draws away) goes for the following
at the end of 2004-5

8.Greece 34.747
9.Belgium 32.250
10. Russia 30.833
11. Scotland 30.125
12. Czechia 29.825
13. Turkey 26.166
14. Ukraine 26.100
15. Romania 24.124
16. Switzerland 23.875

This is based on Panathaikos having a good run (to
the UC semifinals), and Bruges reaching the UC
qf. An early knockout for either team will
change the situation entirely. Put it this way,
Greece now have 31.414, and the next
3 countries can overtake that total if their
teams have good runs.

For instance, if Rangers win next week and then go
on to win the Champions League (excuse me, I just
saw a flying pig) then Scotland could easily
make 8th place.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: exile Date: 02-12-2005, 15:50	oops - I haven't included this week's UC results - mea culpa! will do some numbercrunching....

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Giuseppe Date: 02-12-2005, 15:54 Edited by: Giuseppe at: 02-12-2005, 15:56	I didn't see your last post, so I guess - post deleted You almost fooled me there.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: emilien-charpantier Date: 02-12-2005, 20:41	@giuseppe : yes, i know it, it's only humoristic !

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: Maluyaca Date: 03-12-2005, 14:58	Russia

Author: Maluyaca
Date: 03-12-2005, 15:18
Edited by: Maluyaca
at: 03-12-2005, 15:52

Author: Maluyaca
Date: 30-09-2005, 14:08

Ricardo I'm sorry but your prediction is totaly unaccurate. If the Belgians get 5 points (2wins and 1 draw) should be very good result.

My predicition

8 Greece
9 Russia
10 Scotland
11 Belgium

THIS I GOT FROM THE ARCHIVE.

------------

I'm still behind this. Russia have 2 teams maybe 3 and The Belgians only Bruges a team that plays powerfootball but once they get a tougher opponent they will get out. Rangers is not the team that will kick some ass in Europe so russia.

+ Russia: 2 teams
+ Belgium: Bruges will be probably seeded
+ Scotland: Rangers play Internationale who are already qualified.

- Russia: Teams won't be seeded after the next round
- Belgium: Bruges plays too much on power and will get it difficult
- Scotland: It can be that they continue in CL and then they will be eliminated very quickly.

Russia did what they had to do close the gap.

Belgium had back luck with the tough group of Anderlecht and the surprising elimination of my Team Genk against Litex. Lot of injuries and underestimating.

Scotland had back luck with the surprising elimination of Celtic.

But on 16.12.2005 we will know much more because the qualified teams will know their opponents.

16.12.2005
12:00CET Nyon UEFA Champions League
First knockout round

16.12.2005
13:00CET Nyon UEFA Cup
First and second knockout round

Author: duncshine
Date: 05-12-2005, 13:59

There was a thing in the Independent newspaper in England on Friday stating that, because of the rule change regarding Title Holder spot, Scotland would almost certainly have a team straight into the Group Stages of the CL next (2006/7) season.

Not sure if they understood the rule correctly, but even so, the prediction seems to be based on the assumption that Scotland will be the 10th country.

As shown in this thread, that may be a bit optimistic. If I had to guess, I would say Anderlecht or Standard Liege will get the automatic spot if the title-holder position is used.

Cheers

Dunc

Author: Wilberto
Date: 05-12-2005, 14:25
Edited by: Wilberto
at: 05-12-2005, 14:46

My assumption is Greece will be 9th and Russia 8th.
Why?
1. PAOK Saloniki is already out but can take 1 point, a draw against Stade Rennais.
2. Olympiakos Piraeus is already out and will probably loose against Real Madrid.
3. Werder Bremen will probably win at home against Panithinaikos and so Panithinaikos in this scenario is out too.
Conclusion: my estimated coefficient of Greece is in total: 31.570

Russia:
Zenit and Lokomtive Moskow are through, there is a small chance for CSKA to get through.
The current coefficient of Russia is 29.583. This means Zenit and Lokomitiv must make 8 points (3 wins, 2 draws for example )to get a coefficient of 31.583 for Russia. This means 6 teams in the season 2007/2008 in total in UEFA Cup and CL, maybe even more out of intertoto and because of the new intertoto rules. For sure Russia is nr. 8th of 7th in the next season, because the poor performance of 5 years ago is disapearing from the charts.
This is in my opinion very likely to happen, although they are not playing any matches in the groupstage next week. There is no seeding in UEFA, only the rule nr. 1 against nr. 3, nr. 2 against nr. 3 CL.
It depends for a bit on the draw, but nevertheless i bet on Russia for the eight place!

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: FrancoisD Date: 05-12-2005, 14:34	To duncshine. In 2005 ranking, Scotland IS 10th, so it seems that this time, the newspapers got the point right. Season 2005/2006 results will count for the qualification of 2007/2008...

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: naaba Date: 07-12-2005, 12:03	the end of the season will be very interesting... 8 Greece 11.250 7.166 4.166 6.166 3.000 31.748 2/ 6 9 Belgium 5.875 6.875 5.875 6.125 5.250 30.000 1/ 4 10 Scotland 6.625 7.375 7.375 4.750 3.750 29.875 1/ 4 11 Russia 2.333 3.625 5.875 10.000 7.750 29.583 3/ 4

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: bogdansteaua Date: 07-12-2005, 12:12	ok russia will be on the 8th place.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: bogdansteaua Date: 07-12-2005, 12:15	i forgot and greece on the 9 th position. so the winners on this year are russia and greece, but next year i hope will be romania on the 9 th place (i hope romania have 3 teams in european cups and not 4 , so no uic for romania).

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Jeanito Date: 07-12-2005, 12:22	Russia will be 8th! The club get bonus point if it qualifies only to CL play-off?

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Maluyaca Date: 07-12-2005, 20:10	Why is everbody talking about position 8 this topic goes about who gets to position 9 because thats the spot that gives you a place in the group stage. We all know that Greece will end up in the first 9. It can be that they will be overtaken by 1 of the others (Russia, Belgium, Scotland) but surely not by 2 of them.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: naaba Date: 07-12-2005, 23:13	Good evening for Belgium ! 8 Greece 11.250 7.166 4.166 6.166 3.000 31.748 1/ 6 9 Belgium 5.875 6.875 5.875 6.125 5.500 30.250 1/ 4 10 Scotland 6.625 7.375 7.375 4.750 3.750 29.875 1/ 4 11 Russia 2.333 3.625 5.875 10.000 7.750 29.583 3/ 4 Hot hot hot !

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Maluyaca Date: 07-12-2005, 23:25 Edited by: Maluyaca at: 07-12-2005, 23:26	Indeed good evening for Belgium and probably it's over for Scotland because Rangers will play one of following teams Juventus, Barcelona, Milan, Liverpool, Arsenal, Villarreal, Lyon, Internazionale. Those 8 teams mentioned above Can also meet Bayern, Ajax, Bremen, Benfica, Real Madrid, Chelsea, PSV. Some nice fixtures are possible Barcelona-Chelsea, Juventus-Bayern, Milan-Real Madrid

Author: exile
Date: 07-12-2005, 23:45

8th place gives you an extra 2 UC places, of course. 9th guarantees you an ECL group slot, but most years 10th is good enough for that anyway.

We now have all the nations involved with one sole survivor - except for Russia with 3 (until tomorrow anyway)

With Rangers the only team from these countries still in the ECL (I don't know how, this is the worst Rangers team since 1986), I feel the sudden urge to campaign for double points for round 2 onwards in the ECL....applied retrospectively as with the Liverpool decision.....

Author: kurt
Date: 07-12-2005, 23:49
Edited by: kurt
at: 08-12-2005, 00:11

i think the only hope for scotland is villareal, the other oppononts are extremely difficult, one draw would be already outstanding

i think the following :

greece will stay 8
russia 9 ( certainly if cska moscow are going further )
belgium 10 ( or club brugge must go at least to the semifinals )
scotland 11

i hope in next draw zenith- brugge, then there is hope for belgium

if belgium goes over greece, i certainly hope that russia will beat belgium, i don't want 6 teams in europe for belgium, very bad for the countryranking

Author: naaba
Date: 08-12-2005, 13:12

Why would it be a disaster if Belgium have 6 teams ?

The small teams in Belgium are not ridiculous :

La Louvi�re only lost 1-2 against Benfica.
Lokeren was stolen against Manchester City.
Germinal Beerschot have hung Marseille until the penalty shootout.
Beveren eliminated Levski Sofia, a brillant team this season.

If CSKA is out next week, I think Belgium will keep 9th place and if Brugge can make it, Belgium will be 8th.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: bert.kassies Date: 08-12-2005, 13:50	kurt said: "I don't want 6 teams in europe for belgium, very bad for the countryranking ". I always thought that the importance of the countryranking was due to the fact that it determines the number of teams in European Cups. Why do you like a good countryranking, if you don't want more clubs? Just for honour?

Author: jmf
Date: 08-12-2005, 15:47
Edited by: jmf
at: 08-12-2005, 15:48

Good question bert... The answer is "to stay in our rank but allow an automatic place in the CL for our national champion". Some will say it's a lack of ambition. We call this "intelligence" because we know our football is in trouble. Our infrastructures are outdated, the politic of sport in Belgium is a disaster and the club's incomes are too weak to compete with the big 5 clubs and some good teams in Greece, Turkey, Netherlands, Russia and Portugal. We only have 4 teams able to play in a "mid level" European competions (Anderlecht, Brugge, Standard Liege and Genk). Now, we are often unable to beat clubs of the big 5 (even bottom of these giants championships) and the only dream for a national champion is to draw a "weak" group in CL stage or just be part of the game for financial reasons. That's sad because we remembering the 70' and 80' when we were in the top 3 but others have modernize their game. Not us. It's too slow, technically weak and we don't have the "european rythm and speed". We just have to look at the reality and hope for a change. But it'll take years.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 08-12-2005, 16:08

I recognize much of what you say. But still, that's a very difficult balance, you choose. In fact you say: we want to be at rank 9, not 8 or 10. I don't know if you should be that careful.

In my view one of the best ways to improve football in your (any non top-5) country is provide competition for sub-top clubs at a European level. And not just friendly matches, but real matches were the result counts. E.g. in the new UEFA Cup group stage.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: kurt Date: 08-12-2005, 20:25	yes, belgium want to be on spot 9 or 10 every year, with the new stupid intertoto-cup, very unfair ( some teams have only to play 2 matches ), i think now and then a belgian club will be extra in europe and our countryranking will be lower, that extra teams will already be a big achievement to keep us on spot 9 or 10.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Maluyaca Date: 09-12-2005, 00:59	Kurt don't speak for all the belgians. For me it's like you say because I'm a Genk supporter, but if I was a supporter of Lokeren then I would say 8th because our chances would be greater because of the number of participants. Let me guess you are an Anderlecht supporter.

Author: Nick
Date: 09-12-2005, 07:52

Kurt: More UEFA Cup places can be a good thing too

In Bulgaria for example most ppl regard the 4th berth as a safetynet for the 3 big clubs in case they have a poor season in the league which happens from time to time. Litex for example qualified this year as 4th teams for the UEFA Cup. We all know we can really expect points only from CSKA, Levski and Litex but the extra berth guarantees these 3 teams will always participate in Europe. We now have to see what Loko Sofia will do next year with the 4th place. They haven't been in Europe for 10 years now.

Author: FrancoisD
Date: 09-12-2005, 12:30

I made some stupid computations about average ranking points expected at each level of competition, in order to understand the importance of this 9th place with current ranking system.
ex: Avg(CL1/8) = (4 + Avg(CL1/4) )/2 + 1
Avg(CLGS) = (24 + 2*Avg(CL1/8) + Avg(UC1/16) )/4 + 3

It gives for the club contribution to country coef (rounded):

CL Q1  4.0
CL Q2  6.0
CL Q3 10.0
CL GS 12.8
UC Q1  2.8
UC Q2  3.6
UC R1  5.3

So the expected country coef depending on place is :

with special cases for 10th, 16th and others with title holder spot.

Author: putzeijs
Date: 09-12-2005, 12:51

Life for countries 8 - 15 is like a roller couster. It is up and down in a 10-year period. If you take a look at the countrie graph on this site, you see the same for Scotland, Belgium, Russia and I just looked for these 3.
Russia was 7th in the years 99 + 2000, and were down to 21 five years later. In 08 the can be fifth again.
The same for Belgium: 7th in 95 + 96, down to 20 in 1998, now 3years in a row on 9th.

You can call it fun, or a disaster, buth these countries with just 1-2 really competitive team will have to live with it.
Which would be the better? If all the countries would stay on their spot year after year, a site like Berts wouldn't be much fun.

Situation would be more stable, an for the countries a little bit better if countries 8-10 would have 5 teams in Europe. Buth that's another topic. And perhaps the only topic I know all the readers of this forum do agree on.

And on topic: My ranking based predictions see a 9th spot for Greece at this moment. (Belgium on 8th and Russia on 10)

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: leekid Date: 09-12-2005, 15:23	Let me have a wild guess based on the number of teams left for each country and their coeficients: 8. ROMANIA 9. RUSSIA 10. UCRAINE 11. GREECE

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Giuseppe Date: 09-12-2005, 18:38	Oh, come on... do you like Sci-Fi?

Author: AlanK
Date: 10-12-2005, 21:17

The big games that will help answer this question--and also how high Romania can fly:
Marseille-Dinamo Bucuresti
Heerenveen-Levski

If Dinamo doesn't get at least a tie, and very probably if they don't win, they're out, and Romania probably isn't going to fly far enough. If Dinamo loses and Heerenveen doesn't win, then CSKA Moscow is still in, and Russia will probably be 8th or 9th. Isn't this fun!!!! My preference: Dinamo goes through, just so Romania can continue their Cinderella year. I'll be glued to uefa.com on Dec. 14.

Who will be 9th ? Romania? Ucraine? Rusia?
Author: leekid Date: 12-12-2005, 14:22 Edited by: leekid at: 12-12-2005, 14:24	Don't forget Rapid and Steaua. Romania can add at least 1p after Matchday 5. And even without Dinamo, 2/3 it's a great ratio for ading points, much better then 1/4. That's my theory: the lower your number of teams the higher you fly that year.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Ricardo Date: 12-12-2005, 14:31	leekid, And how do you explain that certain countries have 7-8 teams but are on top year after year???

Author: leekid
Date: 13-12-2005, 16:06
Edited by: leekid
at: 13-12-2005, 16:06

Wasn't I clear enough for you? My 'theory' works for only one year. Sure, in the second year, with 4 teams for Romania, it will be harder to get good coef., especially because it doesn't have a fourth top competitive team yet. Ricardo, the answer to your question is simple: a strong championship in the countries top5. But for the other ones (Rom, Swi, Rus, etc.) the theory is not only correct but even reversible (example: Greece). One thing is clear: country coef., by considering not the total points, but the average, gives a huge advantage to countries with few but strong teams(Romania already climbed 10 positions this year).

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: naaba Date: 15-12-2005, 12:26	Great night for both Scotland and Belgium as Russia lost CSKA !

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Krys Date: 16-12-2005, 00:11	Yeah. Up to my forecast this is about 2.000 loss in rating. Both Zenit and Loko are not able to gain too much. About 9.000 would be good for us. So Brugge and Rangers have to get only 2-3 points to maintain their current positions

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: naaba Date: 16-12-2005, 13:34	Scotland : Rangers - Liverpool Belgium : Club Brugge - AS Roma Russia Lokomotiv Moscow - Sevilla Rosenborg - Zenit Predictions ?

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: jmf Date: 16-12-2005, 14:27	A year of nightmare for belgian teams ! After Liverppol, Chelsea and Betis for Anderlecht ; Juventus and Bayern for Bruges, here is AS Roma... Very difficult to gain points in this case. Good for Russians. For Scots, wait and see : who knows anything about Villareal ?

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: executor Date: 16-12-2005, 14:31	Rangers - Liverpool ??? Maybe you mean Rangers - Villarreal

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: naaba Date: 16-12-2005, 15:20	Yes of course, sorry for the error I thought at the fight Portugal - Netherlands so Benfica - Liverpool...

Author: Maluyaca
Date: 16-12-2005, 19:19
Edited by: Maluyaca
at: 16-12-2005, 19:24

After the draw. Good day for the Scots. Easiest draw possible for them and for the Belgians and Russians tough draws. But I don't think its enough for them. Why see below.

What do I think for the next round not rounds.

AFTER NEXT ROUND (1/8 Final CL and 1/16 Final Uefa)

8. Greece (no problem)
9. Belgium (final result) or Russia (probably 1 survivor)
11. Scotland (final result)

AT the end of the season

8. Greece
9. Russia
10. Belgium
11. Scotland

Think that Belgian need a result (1 draw) at least to stay above Scotland.

Scotland can get a result at home but need to qualify what I don't see happen to stay in the running.

Russian teams wil get close but are they gonna reach the ninth spot. Maybe or maybe not in these round at the end of the season yes because I think that it's the only country that will have a survivor after the next round.

Greece (8th) and Ukraine (12th) are too far away (above and below) to be a concurrent for the 9th place.

Only the Russians can thread Greece but I don't think that they will because I don't see their contenders (Lokomotiv and Zenith) go trough both.

Author: Maluyaca
Date: 16-12-2005, 19:35

Not for this year but the year after that watch out for Romania with only 3 teams if nobody in the intertoto qualifies.

For the country ranking 2007 it will be for the 9th place between

Belgium, Scotland, Ukraine, Romania (Have the advantage of only 3 teams), Greece (not a contender I think because 6 teams), Czech Republic (probably not), Turkey (They have potential but the last years not good results)

Author: Krys
Date: 17-12-2005, 04:14

Next year Russia willbe higher than 9 anyway. Cause we miss only 2.333.

This spring Zenit must beat Rosenborg(3 points) but I expect them to lose to Bolton\Marseille with 1 point. As for Loko it depends on their form. I think their chances are about 40%.

So if Loko is out the result is 5 points appr and the final is 9.000
if Loko passes through it can be 10.000 or even more. But I don't believe in it. From Russia only CSKA is able to get many points in spring rounds. And unfortunately they decided not to play further.

As for other competitors - Brugge is out for sure with 1 point maximum
Rangers - not as determined as above. But up to mine Spanish are favourites. May be 2 points for Scots

Next year Romania will be the key player in this game. And Russia I hope will be at the higher stage.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium
Author: naaba Date: 17-12-2005, 11:47	I don't think Brugge is out for sure... Just take a look at the results of Brugge and Roma in group phase... Bayern and Juventus didn't have easy to beat Brugge... Roma lost in Belgrade and conceded a draw at home against Strasbourg... No teams have scored at least 3 goals at Brugge... It won't be easy for Roma to score. And if Brugge score first, Roma will live a nightmare...

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: SHEV Date: 17-12-2005, 17:01	If start discussions like this then noone is out for sure, but if take it by default - Brugge is one of the favourites to be out.

Author: kurt
Date: 17-12-2005, 19:30

brugge fafourite to go out ?

i don't know and the fans of as roma are not sure either, in the forum on their site, 90 %of the fans did not want to play against club brugge

and only 40 % thinks that as rome is going to beat club brugge
this is a very balanced match, both clubs can win

club brugge had a good champions league run, a draw against bayer munchen,that bayer has now the record ever as club champions half of the league

juventus had twice a lot of work with brugge, so as roma is a great club, but more in history and not the last years

in belgium, believe it or not, everybody is happy with the draw, before the draw was made, they preferred as rome above, zenith, shaktar donetsk and even lefski sofia, the only club they really feared was hamburger

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: SHEV Date: 17-12-2005, 23:58	For such strange explanation I always have answer - If you are sure that match is even, when most reasonable people - bookmakers thinks otherwise - you can always become very rich man.

Author: kurt
Date: 18-12-2005, 14:56

to shev, become rich man, to bet on a game that chances are fify-fifty, that is not a wise man , that is a gambler

i only stated that the belgians are happy with as roma in the newspapers and the fans of as roma are not happy with brugge

as rome is now in the middle of the italian league, and that is there current form, the past is history, and club brugge can beat every club that is in the middle of the league, if they will, we will see

Author: SHEV
Date: 18-12-2005, 19:44

to shev, become rich man, to bet on a game that chances are fify-fifty, that is not a wise man , that is a gambler
-------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are sure that chances are fifty-fifty and bookmakers think it's 90-10 - you are would very stupid not to bet on team that with 50% chance can multiply your money 10 times. Some people who gamble wait for such situation for their whole life.

------------------------------------------------------------------
i only stated that the belgians are happy with as roma in the newspapers and the fans of as roma are not happy with brugge
------------------------------------------------------------------

That's lie. You stated that Brugge isn't favourite to go out which is lie again cause they are. You need just to think a bit about word "favourite".

Author: jmf
Date: 18-12-2005, 20:53

Kurt, I can't understand your position : how can you say Brugge is the favorite ??? As Belgians, we know (but you don't) our football is not able to compete with good top 5 teams. When these clubs want to accelerate the game, we are unable to follow. I expect you are young and your "Texas brag" is not serious and in contradiction with our culture. I admit, with you, Hamburg SV could be a bad draw than la Roma and we know Brugge is sometimes able to realize miracles, essentially at home (why not against this italian team ?), but a normal and objective point of you can't share your position. If Roma is a good draw for the club, it's essentially for financial reasons. That's all.

Author: shell
Date: 18-12-2005, 23:52

Author: SHEV
If you are sure that chances are fifty-fifty and bookmakers think it's 90-10 - you are would very stupid not to bet on team that with 50% chance can multiply your money 10 times.
==============================================
No, bookmakers dont think its 90-10 (probably someone fooled you). But if your sure that in Brugge-Roma chances 50-50 then you still would be really stupid to bet on this tie such amount of money to become "very rich man".

=========================
Some people who gamble wait for such situation for their whole life.
=========================

Such people are called idiots )))

Author: kurt
Date: 19-12-2005, 13:12

TO JMF, i have never said that brugge is the favourite, NEVER

to shev, you tell me that i tell here a lie, i am belgian , i read papers, i read teletext on television, everybody players, chairman are happe with as rome, this for several reasons off course, the east-countries we don't like, especially for the diffilcuty of organsisation and the large travellings and less people in the stadium

as rome, good for tv-rights and easy to organise and not a superior club, that is not a lie, i only said what is in the newspapers, i have never said it is a easy draw, but everybody happy

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: Ricardo Date: 19-12-2005, 14:08	I would say Brugge has certainly a chance. Unfortunately they will start with the home-match, but I think they certainly have a chance.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: SHEV Date: 19-12-2005, 19:32	Kurt, I didn't say that draw is bad for Brugge or they will lose. I said Brugge is a favourite to go out which is true cause favourite is not a matter to discuss - it's a fact.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: kurt Date: 19-12-2005, 20:19	to shev, and i have never said that brugge was the favourite

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: SHEV Date: 20-12-2005, 15:40	Author: kurt Date: 17-12-2005, 19:30 read this message You questioning there if Brugge is favourite or not

Author: BalkanTourist
Date: 20-12-2005, 16:42
Edited by: BalkanTourist
at: 20-12-2005, 17:06

Hi kurt, where is Genk now? Where is Litex? Let me tell you something, your oppinion means squat on here! You've shown yourself as a fool with your comments on Litex, and all the "easterners". Don't worry, we, the "easterners" don't like racist people like you, so the feeling is mutual. Do not make the mistake of ever going east, because some "easterner" will beat the snot out of you and you might not return back wholesome! Shut your mouth up already!

To jmf, I do hope that Mr. kurt here is an exception of the Belgian people. I have had no probelm with any other Belgian before and had considered them as polite and respectful people.

Author: kurt
Date: 20-12-2005, 18:25
Edited by: kurt
at: 20-12-2005, 18:29

to shev,

english is english, i have never said that brugge is the favourite, questionning is not saying that brugge is the favourite, that means they are pretty in balance, and certainly not 90-10%, for me 60-40 % is also in balance, that means no certain winner.

and to balkantourist, you don't belong here, always talking bullshit and acting like a child and using aggressive words,

i am not a racist, i have black people as friends and every year i go on holliday in the eastern-europe,bulgary, hongary, czech republic

if somebody say, clubs don't go to like to eastern-europe then he is a racist, please balkantourist, keep your mouth shut, it is only rubbish that comes out of your mouth

Author: aetius
Date: 21-12-2005, 10:56
Edited by: aetius
at: 21-12-2005, 11:46

...and romania of course

dear mr.kurt i hope a good and correct game for belgians referee who involved next euro cup games for next year. unfortunately romanians already knows how good is a western referee ( ex Urs Meier ) if a eastern country or clubs play to accedeed to high phase a competition. no ofense for everybody who lives in W Europe.
Mr. Bllater said :footbal is bussines ...so ...

rest my case.

b the way : please look at 4 minutes from each half of Olympique M -Dinamo B. you see something wrong about referee?

Author: putzeijs
Date: 21-12-2005, 13:03

Could we all return on topic please? It's about who will be on the favourite 9th spot at the end of this year. As far as I see it, the only Eastern countrie concerned is Russia.
I still believe that everything is in the hands of Brugge.
If they lose both games against Rome, Belgium will probably be 11th.
If they win one game Belgium will probably 10th.
And if they should (what I personaly don't think) go through to the last 8, Belgium could well find itself at spot 8.

We'll know more in februari.

Re: Who will be 9th ? Scotland ? Russia ? Belgium ?
Author: SHEV Date: 21-12-2005, 13:09	You'll never guess how much points will be enough. Last spring Ukraine has 3 teams and Russia only 1, Ukraine was ahead by 1.000. Who would ever thought that we'll finish 2.000 behind them? I thought that it was impossible that they even stay on the same -1.000. Some team could win UEFA cup and mix up everything. What we know for sure - Turkey and Greece will not go up

Author: aetius
Date: 22-12-2005, 09:07

the qestion wiil be reduced at who will be 9th Scoltland 1 cl team and play against spanish villareal or Russia still 2 team in uefa.
Because the belgium team is too weak for AS Roma, the italians is master of 1-0 or 0-0 games.
so this is my scenario
1.Belgium
bruges max 2 points ->coef 30,250+0,500=30,750
2.Scotland
rangers can pass over villareal and ... stop
so add max 4-5 points -> coef 29.875+1 =30,875
3. Russia
a big handicap is no official games for russians
zenit can crush rosenborg - a old norvegian team and
maybe hold marseille/bolton in the next round
unfortunately lokomotiv will be out because sevilla has more offical games in legs
so, zenit max 6-7 points
lokomotiv max 2 points -> coef 29.583+2=31,583

but.. is only a scenario
maybe brugges win uefa cup or rangers pass trough to semis in C league. will see

Author: Ricardo
Date: 22-12-2005, 09:56

Funny to see how opinions differ.
Brugge, good team, does certainly have chancs against Roma who did not impress in the UC groupphase(just a draw at homa against bottom of French leaguem loss from Red Star), always 1 goal against, so NO 0-0 player, etc. Brugge won twice from Rapid and had bad luck to draw Bayern and Juve.
Scotland: Rangers getting over their dip, can they improve enough to concur Villareal, I doubt it.
Russia: Lok Moskou has no chance agasint Sevilla and Zenit is the underdog against Rosenborg, who eliminated Steaua(second in Romania) and Olympiakos(leader of Greece)