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9 out of top 10 qualified for the World cup
Author: ywann-dreisl Date: 16-11-2005, 22:04 Edited by: ywann-dreisl at: 16-11-2005, 22:06	After the qualification of Spaniards, it is nine out of top ten, considering total pointes won earlier on at the WC's. Only Russians wil be missing. 1. Brasil 2. Deutschland 3. Italia 4. Argentina 5. England 6. Espana 7. France 8. Sverige 9. Rossija 10.SCG

Re: 9 out of top 10 qualified for the World cup
Author: SHEV Date: 17-11-2005, 00:16	It's because all Russian points in USSR times was gained by ukrainian players.

Re: 9 out of top 10 qualified for the World cup
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 17-11-2005, 01:47	Serbia and Montenegro in the top 10? buahahahahah. funny statistics you have there.

Re: 9 out of top 10 qualified for the World cup
Author: Dario Date: 17-11-2005, 02:12	Its not funny,its the truth,all gained points of Yugoslavia in FIFa and UEFa competitions are given to Serbia&Montenegro because we are the successors of Yugoslavia.

Re: 9 out of top 10 qualified for the World cup
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 17-11-2005, 11:29	That doesn't change the fact that these are funny and non-objective statistics. It's very well known how many non-Serbian&Montenegrian players were in Yugoslav teams. Next year your country probably won't exist any more. Montenegro will be separated from Serbia. Will you take all the credit for previous results too?

Author: ywann-dreisl
Date: 17-11-2005, 14:56
Edited by: ywann-dreisl
at: 17-11-2005, 15:07

@Cro_nogomet
At FIFA statistisc it is the 10th participation (not the 1st) of SCG at the WCs. And since I was born it is the 4th participation of "the country that I live in". I have memories of my countryman playing at the World Cup and these memories cannot be deleted. This is not my country's debut. And I cheered for that team and had no problems with Croats and muslims playing for it.
Thus, I don't feel ofended if you want to share these memories, because we have lived in that country together for some time, but if you don't (most of Croats don't), please don't forbid me.
And no hard feelings, ofcourse

Re: 9 out of top 10 qualified for the World cup
Author: BalkanTourist Date: 17-11-2005, 16:48	Great reply!

Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 17-11-2005, 17:08
Edited by: Cro_nogomet
at: 17-11-2005, 17:09

@ ywann-dreisl

I didn't say that this is your debut. Serbia & Montenegro played on World Cup once before - in France 1998. You're name was then SR Jugoslavija, but like this year only Serbia and Montenegro were parts of that country.

You said that this is 10th participation of SCG at the WC. If that's true, then I have right to say that this is 11th time that Croatia participates on the World Cup. Can you explain me why isn't Croatia on that list then?

Yugoslavia at the World Cups from 1930 to 1990 IS NOT ONLY Serbia and Montenegro. You have to remember that. Unfortunately most of the Serbs saw Yugoslavia as Great Serbia, and not the federation of 6 countries and nations. :-/

Author: ywann-dreisl
Date: 17-11-2005, 22:54

Would you tell me honestly: did you really cheerd for Yugoslavia in Italy 1990? Croats burned the national flag in Zagreb at friendly match Yugoslavia - Netherlands, and the Dutch were amased because the "home" crowd supported them instead of Yugoslavia. If you weren't too young then you would certenly remember what your feelings were like then. Did you support that team to now claim it's fifth place in Italy. If you did you have every right to do so

Off topic: I appologise if you were harmed in any way during the war, but this was not done by serbian people, but by serbians criminals who went there to pillage and by the nationalistic government which we don't have anymore. For Serbs and Croats it would be much better if they would have formed two or three independant states after the World War I instead of Yugoslavia. In that case, I believe, we could have much better relations now.

Greetings

Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 18-11-2005, 00:20

As I was 4 years old when the world cup in Italy took place, I obviously cannot talk from my own experience. From my perspective now I cannot imagine myself supporting a national team that represents 5 more nations besides my own. But now is now, and then was then. Yugoslav team was very well represented with Croatian players so I presume that a great deal of Croatians cheered for that team BEFORE 1990.

As you should know, the year 1990 is specific for all kinds of reasons. The national tense and awakeness was extremely high those days as the people sensed that finally it has come the time to have our own independent country. A month before the world cup there were riots in Zagreb at Maksimir stadium on the league match between Dinamo Zagreb and Red Star Belgrade. Zvonimir Boban (the future captain of Croatian national team) became famous with punching the Serbian policeman. The whole country was falling apart and the ugly smell of incoming war was all over the place. So when you take all of that into account it is absolutely normal that the Yugoslavian national team at that time was no more accepted and supported in Croatia. So, the flag incident on the match with Netherlands was very understandable.

But you cannot say that for example in world cup 1982 Croats weren't supporting Yugoslavian team. That's just not true. I think you will remember the joy and celebrations in Split when Radanovic scored a goal in 90th minute of a deciding qualifying match against Bulgaria for EURO 1984. That match was repeated on Croatian TV a few years ago in memory of Mladen Delic, in case you wonder how I know about that.

So, I hope know you understand why I don't think it's fair to say that Serbia and Montenegro are in top 10 of all time WC history, and not to mention Croatia and other ex-Yu countries at the same time.

Regards.

Author: ignjat63
Date: 18-11-2005, 06:35
Edited by: ignjat63
at: 18-11-2005, 06:55

Cro_nogomet your criteria is wrong.

I wrote about continuation in another thread some time ago so I'll be repeating myself a bit.

Yugoslavia desintegrated because you wanted to leave and to have a country of your own. We wanted to stay. So it is you who had to start from scrach and not us. The war had nothing to do with continuation but with some other reasons not to be debated about on this forum. But as you very well know even the name Yugoslavia was retained after you (and several other republics) left. I do not believe for a minute that this continuation makes sense in football. I agree with you that it does not. But it is legal stuff and our oppinions do not count at all.

And please, let us not bring the 90s war (and also things like the WW2 Jasenovac and other stuff that naturally go with it because it would be a very broad topic ideed) into this forum. If you want to exchange views I'll be happy to oblige through e-mail.

Regards

EDIT: I will give you an example of "legal stuff". When Yugoslavia was formed only Serbia actually existed as an independent country. Croatia and Slovenia existed only as territories freed from Austria-Hungary and Montenegro (another independent country at the time) joined a bit later. So at the time a lot of lawyers and politicians and experts on international law debated whether the new country is really a new country or just continuation of Serbia. It seems that international law at the time was not developed enough to give a final answer. So in the end it was decided (but by no means unonimously) that it would be considered a new country which was more a political than legal (in terms of international law) solution. I wrote all this to show that forming or desintegration of countries is a much more complex problem than citizens' view on who is guilty of what.

Author: Dario
Date: 18-11-2005, 21:53

I agree with ignjat.

And for the Cronogomet comment that some Serbs saw Yugoslavia as Great Serbia is totaly false and absurd.Just remember that 33% Of Croatia population before World War 2 was Serbian,15 % before the war in 1991,and now there is only 4% of Serbs.The sad thing is that many people in Croatia Serbia and Bosnia are living in the past,with religious nad nationalistic ideas.But we all speak the same language ,we lived together for 1000 years.

Croats and others abandoned Yugoslavia,not Serbs.