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Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: Gabi Date: 16-11-2005, 19:02	I just want to salute the great victory of Trinidad & Tobago, 1-0 in Bahrain, to gain 2-1 qualification on aggregate to the 2006 World Cup in Germany. Too bad this wasn't a tie between Trinidad and Uzbekistan, but justice has been made in football and we all saw that you can't BUY a place at the World Cup.

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: Ricardo Date: 16-11-2005, 19:04	Incredible 4 Dutch coaches at the WC! Holland, S-Korea, Australia and Trinidad. I give Australia the best chances (they got the best coach! who was already twice 4th the last 2 tournaments)

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: forbsey Date: 16-11-2005, 19:08	Well done T&T. They have a few players how are playing in Scotland, I'll be supporting them in Germany.

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: vakho Date: 16-11-2005, 20:14	I remember for 1990 WC Trinidad & Tobago had to draw with USA to qualify for Italy in last round . They lost on last minutes 0:1 and the whole stadium's crowd just fell down and cried with tears. FIFA awarded T&T ?the special prise for being to loyal to own team Nice to see them on WC !

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: Martijn_Lok Date: 16-11-2005, 23:32	Yep, After Van Basten (Netherlands), Advocaat (South Korea) and Hiddink (Australia) Beenhakker will be the 4th Dutch coach in Germany. And all those 4 coaches are Dutch coach at world cup with Netherlands. Beenhakker in 1990 (1/8 finale), Advocaat in 1994 (1/4 finale) and Hiddink in 1998 (1/2 finale), Van Basten in 2006 (final?)

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: shrike Date: 16-11-2005, 23:37	I think every country would like T&T in their group. As this tournemant is all about commerce, I won't be suprised as they end up with Germany.

Author: Peter_nyc
Date: 17-11-2005, 04:59
Edited by: Peter_nyc
at: 17-11-2005, 05:18

@Martijn_Lok- as the one who saw 90% of Holland games in past qualifications, let me show my admiration for dutch fotball, you deserve it. Yeah, i agree with you , Van Basten is "driving" now a fotball machine, which he created. Yeah , i think the next world cup can be a "dutch moment" and for sure van basten will reach at list the semifinals... Brasil and argentina are half of level below Dutch right now, but depends what their shape will be in the next summer.

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: Lunaris Date: 17-11-2005, 14:25	trinidad is the new record holder in being the smallest country that ever played in wc (before it's been jamaica) they only have 1 million inhabitants will there ever be a smaller country in the wc? (now that ofc is without australia, maybe one of the small pacific states)

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: MalcolmW Date: 17-11-2005, 16:41	Yes, Trinidad & Tobago has smallest population, but previous smallest was Northern Ireland (under 1.5 million), who reached quarter-final in 1958.

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: vakho Date: 17-11-2005, 17:11	Lunaris - I guess Australia disappears for Asia, IMO no one can take this place from New Zealand

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: Cro_nogomet Date: 17-11-2005, 17:14 Edited by: Cro_nogomet at: 17-11-2005, 17:14	I believe that Solomon Islanders would have something to say about that.

Author: Michele
Date: 17-11-2005, 18:25

On topic I must congratulate Trinidad. They looked much better thean Bahrain yesterday and how they managed not to win at home is beyond me. I think they can compete at the WC whereas I only see Bahrain as playing for keeping the defeats decent had they qualified.

Off topic, I think that the Oceanian winner will get a very tricky road to the WC. as it is now, the winner has had to play-off against no. 5 from South America and now their best, and only decent, team disappears, so why would they get an easier, or even the same task to qualify. My suggestion is that AFC and OFC are merged and that the Oceanians play-off for two spots in the final groups in Asia. This way, Australia could get more challenges than simply playing with NZ and Solomon for a play-off place and at the same time they would still be close to their roots, playing teams like Samoa and Fiji.

But from what I've heard, Australia is the only team joining AFC and leaving the rest to themselves.

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: Lunaris Date: 17-11-2005, 20:47	i would suggest oceania and south america to merge, as they are clearly the 2 smallest confederations to merge ofc and afc would create a monster confederation

Author: Michele
Date: 18-11-2005, 11:44

so now the Bahrainis have lodged an appeal to FIFA wanting (another) replay because of the goal that was disallowed in overtime.

To those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, the situation is as follows: 2nd half injury time, Bahrain - Trinidad 0-1. The Trinidad keeper, Kelvin Jack, holds the ball and is going to kick it upfield. As the ball is in the air between his hands and his foot, Ala'a Hubail steps in and kicks the ball away without touching Jack. He then sends the ball into the empty net, but the ref has blown his whistle for a free kick to Jack.

The Bahrainis themselves don't expect too much of the appeal, first of all because such appeals rarely leads to anything and second, because the appeal should have been filed right after the match.

But I'm curious if anyone knows exactly how the rules are in such a situation. I have a feeling that there is a kicking process that stretches from the moment the keeper releases the ball from his hands until he hits it with his foot. And, during this process, it is not legal to steal the ball, so the ref was correct in giving the free kick to Jack. But I'm not sure about it, so if anyone could help me out, it would be really great.

Author: spoonman
Date: 18-11-2005, 11:45
Edited by: spoonman
at: 18-11-2005, 11:48

@ Lunaris: Well, the AFC is already a "monster confederation" in itself which is divided into four or five regional groups for preliminary qualifying. The addition of Oceania (with only 10 or 11 members left) would simply mean that there'd be another region in the preliminaries. I don't think that this would cause problems.

@ Michele: On German TV, the commentator quoted the rule exactly as you have done it. The goalkeeper's kicking process must not be disrupted.

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: ignjat63 Date: 18-11-2005, 12:15	to michele I was watching the match in a direct broadcast on Eurosport. Both commentators agreed at once that the ref's decision was correct. And the explanation was similar to yours.

Author: Michele
Date: 18-11-2005, 12:45

Hi Ignjat. I watched it on Eurosport too, but i was unfortunate enough to have Danish commentators on the game, and they were not quite sure what to think of the situation. But eventually they came to the conclusion that since the goalkeeper had not been touched, it shouldn't have been a free kick. And I objected to that, but since I wasn't 100% certain, I wanted my suspicion confirmed.

And I wonder why Bahrain is protesting if the rule is as Spoonman, you and I agree. Aren't they able to read the rules? It'll make them look so stupid if FIFA comes up with a statement saying "The rules clearly state that it is illegal to interrupt the goalkeeper while he is in the kicking process." In that case, it's not even a matter of judgement by the ref, but simply a case of being able to read and interpret the rules, which the ref fortunately was able to do (as opposed to his Japanese colleague from the Uzbekistan - Bahrain match).

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: Ricardo Date: 18-11-2005, 13:10	On Dutch TV they said to have contact the Dutch referee association to question this and they said the referee was right. The rule changed a few years ago that the Goalkeeper can not be interfered in his kicking. So a few ago this would have been a goal, but now it was a free kick. It would have been the most stupid blunder of the year (If Bahrein would have managed to win on penalties lateron)

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: ignjat63 Date: 18-11-2005, 13:19	Well it seems logical to me that the goalkeeper was fouled. It would be a very strange thing indeed if he was to kick the ball while holding it. He has to be allowed to let go of it for a moment. This seems pure commom sense to me. And Bahrain is complaining because of the old story - all that lose are angry.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 18-11-2005, 13:54

At fifa.com you may download the Laws of the Game 2005.

At page 37:

"An indirect free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player,in the opinion of the referee:
...
� prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his hands
...

At page 68:

"Offences against goalkeepers. Referees are reminded that:
� it is an offence for a player to prevent a goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his hands
� a player must be penalised for playing in a dangerous manner if he kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
... "

Furthermore, in the Questions and Answers to the Laws of the Game, in chapter 12 "FOULS AND MISCONDUCT", at page 29:

"16. A goalkeeper holding the ball bounces it before he kicks it upfield. Is it an offence to bounce the ball?
No. In the spirit of the Law he would not be regarded as having released the ball from his possession.

17. If a goalkeeper is bouncing the ball, may an opponent play the ball as it touches the ground?
No.

18. After taking possession of the ball, a goalkeeper allows it to lie on his open hand. An opponent comes from behind him and heads the ball from his hand. Is this permitted?
No.

19. As a goalkeeper releases the ball to kick it into play, an opponent intercepts it before it touches the ground. Is this permitted?
No. It is an offence to prevent a goalkeeper releasing the ball from his hands. The releasing of the ball from his hands and the kicking of the ball is considered to be a single action. "

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: Ricardo Date: 18-11-2005, 14:06	Thanks, Bert, this should kill the discussion.

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: Michele Date: 18-11-2005, 14:19	Excellent Bert. No doubt that the referee acted correctly, but since it was a Colombian ref, I don't blame the Bahrainis for instantly thinking that he must have been wrong

Re: Trinidad & Tobago did it!
Author: Gauss Date: 18-11-2005, 14:25 Edited by: Gauss at: 18-11-2005, 14:26	Edit: I was much to slow, Bert already cited the passages I intended to