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Author: bert.kassies
Date: 26-10-2005, 11:11

In a private discussion with one of the forum members it became once more clear to me that there are still some uncertaincies on the use of the Champions League title-holder spot. Therefore I changed the text on this subject at the main page of my website:

"In June 2005 UEFA decided (see 1 and 2) that the defending cup-holder always takes part. If the defending cup-holder does not finish in a qualifying place in their domestic competition they will come in at the expense of the last-placed side of that association. But there will be a special exemption in the unlikely event of a country with one Champion League spot winning the competition but failing to win their own domestic league. In August 2005 this uefadirect article states that this will only increase the number of places that an association has in the UEFA competitions if the title-holders do not qualify for these competitions through their domestic league or if their association has only one Champions League berth. So for the time being it remains unsure what will be the precise impact on the use of the title holder spot. "

We had a forum discussion on this subject in June 2005 with different opinions.

Does any of you have more information (or insight) on this subject, or do we have to wait for the new 2006 Champions League regulations?

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 26-10-2005, 15:26

it was my understanding that :
- the number of teams participating to the Champions League was capped to 4 per country.
- as a result, when the reigning European champion fails to qualify through its League, an additional spot is created for the European champion to enable it to defend its title. However, should the European cnampion belong to one of the 3 top leagues (having already 4 spots through the League), then the European champion takes the spot of the last-placed side of that League.

I understand from your statement that the European champion would take the spot of the last-placed team if it belongs to a country already having 2 or more spots, i.e. within the Top 8 League.
Is it accurate ?

Author: isidromv
Date: 26-10-2005, 15:59
Edited by: isidromv
at: 26-10-2005, 16:21

This is what I understand from all this links, even it is still ambiguous:

- Title holder from top 15:
* If already qualified to CL then no changes.
* If qualified to UC, it swaps it spot with the last CL entry.
* If not qualified at all, then it swaps it spot with the last CL entry, and an extra spot is created in UC for this team.

- Title holder from 16th or lower country (1 CL spot):
* If qualified to CL, an extra spot is cretaed but it is not clear if for UC or CL.
* If not, an extra spot is created, I guess for the CL.

Author: newman
Date: 26-10-2005, 17:01

I do agree with isidromv with respect to the scenario for the TH from top 15 but my understanding for the TH from outside top 15 is:

* If qualified to CL - no changes.
* If not qualified to CL but qulified for UEFA cup - TH moved to CL and an extra spot is created for UEFA cup.
* If not qulified neither for CL nor for UEFA cup - an extra CL spot is created for TH.

The bottom line is that minimum 2 places in UEFA cup are guaranteed for the asscociations from outside top 15.

Author: ralfinho
Date: 26-10-2005, 18:46

Lyonnais,
when UEFA took its decision in June, at the first glance I thought the same as you. However, if you read the text of that press article (linked by Bert under 1) carefully, you read
1) "At the same time, the number of clubs allowed per national association (in CL, added by me) will remain stable based on coefficient ranking."
This means independent of the country's ranking (top 3, 6, 9 or 15).

2) "It means that in future, if (an association) has four free slots for example, one of these should be allocated to the (Champions League) champions if they have not qualified through the ordinary system in their domestic league"
The "for example" seems to mean that this issue also concerns countries outside of the top 3.

Let's assume that Lille wins the 05/06 CL and finishes 4th in the French league.

* According to the system valid until 2005, Lille would be awarded an additional CL spot, the first three from France would be in CL as well and the next three (5th to 7th, not regarding cup and league cup) in UC. So, we would have an additional spot for France in the EC's (CL + UC).

* According to the system we ASSUME to be valid from 2006, Lille would take the CL spot from the French 3rd who goes to UC together with the 5th and the 6th. So, we would NOT have an additional spot for France.

* The article from UEFA direct says "This will only increase the number of places that an association has in the UEFA competitions if the title-holders do not qualify for these competitions" (UEFA competitions means CL and UC). Lille DID qualify for the competitions. So, this seems to confirm our former assumptions.

However, you can never be sure with UEFA statements as you don't know if the author knows what he writes.

If the CL holder comes from a non-top 15 country, the article from UEFA direct makes things even less clear. As Bert wrote, we thought up to now that in the case that a team from a country with one CL spot wins the competition but fails to win their own domestic league, an additional spot is awarded. Reading the article, I assume now - as isidromv - that in this case an additional spot is awarded independently if the CL winner is champion or not. Not very consistent I think.

Re: Champions League title-holder spot (reprise)
Author: ignjat63 Date: 27-10-2005, 07:53 Edited by: ignjat63 at: 27-10-2005, 08:33	In principle I think that these rules should be easy to formulate precisely. So instead of wondering "what does UEFA mean by this?" I wonder "Does UEFA want to make it clear at all?" If the latter is the case it could be because they intentionally want to leave some space for themselves to treat each case separately. This I find not so hard to believe.