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| Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 13-10-2005, 17:16 | 27 Off the 32 couttries has been qualified, 5 Spots to give in the play-offs, but 27 is enough to can give predictions about the pot's!! * Is meaning not allready qualified. Pot-1:Holland,Germany,England,France,Spain*,Argentina,Mexico,Brazil. Pot-2:Italy,Portugal,USA,Korea,Turkey*,Tsjechia*,Costarica,Sweden. Pot-3:Poland,Serbia,Kroatia,Tunesia,Paraguay,Ecuador,Ukrain,Japan. Pot-4:Togo,Angola,Ivorcoast,Ghana,Australia*,Arabia,Trinidat*,Iran. When Spain gonne loose in the play-offs, Italy will be put in pot-1, and Japan in pot-2, when Turkey ore Tsjechia looses in the play-offs too than Ukrain will be put in Pot-2 too, When one ore 2 off the teams of Switserland,Norway and Slowakia qualify than they'll we put in pot-3, when Uruguay ore Bahrein qalify they will put in pot-4. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: ralfinho
Date: 14-10-2005, 01:05 | At all of the last WC's, only pot 1 was defined according to some seeding/ranking. All other pots were defined by regional criteria. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: nitsansh
Date: 14-10-2005, 06:37 | Iwan, in previous world cup, FIFA used a formula that combines the standing in last 3 world cups and ranking in last 3 years to determine the seeds. If the same formula would be used, the 8 seeds will be Brazil, Spain, Mexico, Italy, Argentina, Germany (would be seeded as host anyway), England and France. Netherlands is in 9th place and will be seeded if Spain fails to qualify. The last ranking that should be used is of November 2005, so the 8th seed is still undecided between France and Netherlands, and the elimination of Czech Republic in the play off could make some difference. Here is the ranking with Sepember 2005 ranking instead of November, and assuming that the higher-ranked teams qualify from the play offs (Czech Rep, Spain, Turkey, Uruguay and Bahrain): PWC RP TOT |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: flob
Date: 14-10-2005, 16:53 | Obviously nothing's decided yet. Read this interesting column about the seeding for WC 2006 and the playoffs in Europe. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: nitsansh
Date: 14-10-2005, 18:46 | I think FIFA will be happy with the seeds as determined by the 2002 formula. The big names are all in - Brazil, Argentina, Italy, England, France and Spain, with Mexico the only newcomer to the top flight, but they got it by right. I also think that FIFA should use seeding for the other qualifyers while keeping the geographic constrains in the same way that UEFA conducts the Eurpean cup draws and keeps teams from the same country apart. It shouldn't be a big deal. If no seeding is used, you can get a group with Brazil, Netherlands, USA and another European team. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: spartaan
Date: 14-10-2005, 20:32 | Would be nice Brazil Netherlands USA and Sweden in one group |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 14-10-2005, 21:45 Edited by: iwan at: 14-10-2005, 22:30 | Dear Nitsash, Yes, I know the system they've for the prestation at earlier final tournements, for the 1st place has been given 32 points, for the 2nd place 31,for the 3rd place 30 etc, and 1 for the 32th place, when a team don't qalify he receives zero points. The results off 1994 are multiplayed by 1, the results off 1998 multiplayed with 2 and them of 2002 multiplayed by 3 and the total points are divided by 6!!! Brasil has received (32+2*31+3*32)/6 = 31,66667 points Holland has received (26+2*29+3*0)/6 = 14,00000 points etc. But about the rankingpoints, maybe the ranking at the webpage www.elorating.net are divided by 64?!?!? I've found an otter rankinglist at an otter webpage: www.planetworldcup.com/GUESTS/paul20050423.html For the 1st place is given 32 points,for the 2nd place 31, for the 3rd 30 etc and for the lowest ranked member of the tournement one point. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: MalcolmW
Date: 14-10-2005, 21:46 | USA and Ghana would be interesting in same group, pitting Freddie Adu's adopted country against his country of birth (he left at 14 for football). My son spent several weeks coaching in Ghana last year and USA this year. He had a group of 30 under12s in Tema who had one pair of boots between them. In New York one kid turned up on successive days in latest kits of Man City, Chelsea and Man United. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: dinamozagreb
Date: 15-10-2005, 16:54 | There is a topic: World Cup draw ..with all explanations. European teams will be in pot 2. Croatia in pot 3? Are you mad?  )) |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 15-10-2005, 19:28 | Allright than!!! Than it will be better to put Costarica in pot-3 and Kroatia in pot-2!!! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 23-10-2005, 21:58 Edited by: iwan at: 23-10-2005, 22:17 | They wanne put Argentina,Brazil,Mexico,Germany,France,England, Spain and Italy in Pot-1. The resting 8 European teams in Pot-2. The teams off Africa,Oceania and resting COMNEBOL-teams in Pot-3. And the teams off CONCACAF and Asia, and the lowest ranked European team (Switserland,Serbia ore Norway in Pot-4!! Not logic at all!!! Holland was 4th at the WCT in 1998,3rd at the ECT in 2000, 4th at the ECT in 2004 and qalified this time with a 92%-score!!! Korea, 4th at the last WCT, Japan, winner Asiacup both in pot-4?!? That's 2 to low!!! More logic it wil be to make all the pools about ranking that will mean Holland instead Italy in pot-1, Korea and USA in pot-2 (not 4!!), and the African teams exept Tunesia(pot-3 maybe-2?!?!) in pot 4. Ranking will be more logic be forming off the 4 potts!!! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: MalcolmW
Date: 24-10-2005, 00:38 | 'Pot 1' is seeded. (Netherlands miss out, as widely expected). Pots 2, 3 & 4 are essentially geographical and should not be taken as implying 2 is better than 3, and 3 better than 4. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Meatball
Date: 27-10-2005, 15:20 Edited by: Meatball at: 27-10-2005, 15:22 | It's not really revealing anything we didn't know already, but it is as always on Planet World Cup a good read: {a href=http://www.planetworldcup.com/GUESTS/paul20051025.html> The newest column of Paul Marcuccitti.{/a> Iwan, this again explains, why Holland might not be seeded. Although it's not over yet, just hope for Slovakia... One more comment, I just can't resist: Iwan, you listed the undoubtedly big achievements of Holland over the last years. But what happened in 2002? I just seem to be unable to remember...  "Ohne Holland fahren wir zur WM..."I know, I am mean, sorry for that. But I really wish you the best next year, seeded or unseeded, don't let the Brazilians win again. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: shrike
Date: 28-10-2005, 12:58 | The FIFA should add the rule that a seeded team at least has reached the quarter finals in one of the last 2 or 3 world cups. This should remove Mexico from the top 8 seeded teams. It's ridicilous that such a team gets a seeded spot. It's makes it also easier to group the rest by continent. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: MalcolmW
Date: 28-10-2005, 18:21 | There is no need to invent arbitrary 'rules' to deny Mexico the seeding position they have earned. Yes, it would be more elegant to have an additional European seed but that is not the situation which has been reached by fair means. The system takes the last 3 World Cups into account, and Mexico still qualifies as a seed. As a Bolton fan I will be especially interested in Mexico, Japan and Tunisia in the World Cup. I also watched Euro2004 with interest as the only Bolton player involved was Greek. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 29-10-2005, 01:05 Edited by: iwan at: 29-10-2005, 14:17 | I real can aggree with Mexico in Pot-1, no misunderstood about that!! But I've my doubts about Italy!! Holland is many higher ranked than Italy!!! Holland can only put in pot-1 when Spain looses in the play-offs. I don't think that gonne happen!! Maybe it will be better to put Japan ant Korea too in pot-1 and maybe Tunesia to insteat France and Italy!!!! What ever!!! When Holland real is strong enough to become champion than they can beat everybody and than it'sn't nessissary to come in Pot-1 !!! In 1974 Holland was put in Pot-4 and they became second!!! In 1974 ware the pots: Pot-1: Germany,Brazil,Uruguay,Italy. Pot-2:Scotland,Sweden,Argentina,Chile.Pot-3:Poland,DDR,Yugoslavia and Bulgaria and in Pot-4: Holland,Australia,Zaire and Haiti. And who became second?!?!? |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: redmatt7
Date: 29-10-2005, 08:36 | The method for calculating these seedings is ridiculous. Ignoring the fact that the 1994 world cup is included in the calculations which is crazy, tehre is another point. The other aspect to the seeding is the FIFA world rankings. For the december 2005 rankings points scored in 2005 are multiplied by 8, 2004 by 7, 2003 by 6 and so on with 1998 multiplied by 1. (The figures are all divided by 8 too but this isn't relevant to make my point) FIFA takes an unweighted average of the last 3 years rankings for its rankings aspect of the calculations, which actually gives more weighting to points scored in 1999 than 2005! See the table below illustrating the weighting of matches each year in the December 2005, Dec 2004 and Dec 2003 rankings: Ranking 2005 2004 2003 FIFA WC 2005 8 0 0 8 2004 7 8 0 15 2003 6 7 8 21 2002 5 6 7 18 2001 4 5 6 15 2000 3 4 5 12 1999 2 3 4 9 1998 1 2 3 6 1997 0 1 2 3 1996 0 0 1 1 Wuldn't a fairer method for the World Cup seeding be to take 2005 rankings only as 50%, 2002 WC performance as 40% and 1998 performance as 10% (the 2002 WC has a significant impact on the 2005 ranknigs as well, so its relevance would in reality be more than 40%). I expect that France would be severely handicapped if FIFA were to change to this system, as could Italy. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: isidromv
Date: 29-10-2005, 18:42 Edited by: isidromv at: 29-10-2005, 18:44 | Already, I was surprised of FIFA using the average of 2003, 04 and 05 rankings, while they are also averages of previous years. But I did not have a closer look to the mathematics of the system. Now I agree with redmatt7, I think it is a ridiculous system, it should be better to take into account only the latest rankings (of course, the FIFA ranking is itself ridiculous, but it is what we have). |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 30-10-2005, 21:00 Edited by: iwan at: 30-10-2005, 22:49 | Thanks for the information!!!! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: viulo
Date: 16-11-2005, 02:22 | In Italy, when questioned about this, Blatter said that not only Italy but also the Netherlands and England had motives for concern about not being seeded. Then he said that apart from FIFA ranking, results from 1998 and 2002 would be taken in account. He left out 1994. Could it be they are going to change the way the calculations are made? If so, by eliminating 1994, what would be the repercussions on the seedings list? Of course, one day later, the organising committee said that the system would only be announced on the 6th of December, so maybe Blatter just made a mistake. Another question: does anyone remember how the draw for 2002 worked? What was the geographical distribution of the teams? I remember Portugal and Poland were paired on the same group, but I have an idea there was a pot for european teams with 10 or 11 squads, and the ones that weren't drawn in the first eight then went to groups where the seeded teams weren't european? Was this what happened? |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Edgar
Date: 16-11-2005, 09:34 | 2002 draw play by play -> link |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: viulo
Date: 16-11-2005, 17:33 | Thanks Edgar. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Lyonnais
Date: 16-11-2005, 18:36 | We all agree I guess that FIFA "formula" raises quite a lot of questions. It should be difficult to find the right algorithm to enable them to find the 'right' pots. What I don't understand is that they constantly try to sell their FIFA ranking to media but they don't want to take it into account when they have to make their own pots. That would be so easy. Teams would be split into the 4 pots depending on their rankings. Then, they will just have to care about geographic breakdown (2 European teams per group maximum - and at least 1 - then 2 or 3 teams coming from different continents) and that's it. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Lunaris
Date: 16-11-2005, 18:49 | I've to agree fully with Lyonnais on this point but i guess we all already know why fifa don't use their ranking, they don't like to see mexico and usa in pot1 and other "bigger" countries as england, italy or argentina in pot2 then, so they always try to produce as "big" a pot1 as possible, thus they need to make it as complicated as possible maybe one day this will change, but not in the following 2 wcs i guess |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Vir_Latinus
Date: 16-11-2005, 23:38 | Since we are talking about final tournament, why don't take in account only result of the last three World Cup, weighting 3,2 and one the result of 2002,1998 and 1994? In this case we had: PWC Interesting... Czech in Pot 4 (never qualify in the last WC), Argentina and France in Pot 2... and the so-contested Italy in the Pot 1. It's just a different point of view... why to take in account the ranking FIFA that everyone said is ridiculous, and not the real results of an official tournament? Bye |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: shrike
Date: 16-11-2005, 23:57 | As I think it's logical for a worldchampionship that they take some regional rules in account, it really doesn't matter if you're 9th or 32th. Even to be a seeded country doesn't make that much of a difference, because two teams can reach the second round. There is just one acception; the group with Brazil or Argentina with two european teams. (like Sweden. Argentina and England in 2002) |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Edgar
Date: 17-11-2005, 10:20 | Pot 1: Brazil, Germany, Spain, Mexico, Italy, Argentina, England, France Pot 2: Netherlands, Sweden, Croatia, Czech Republic, Portugal, Poland, Serbia & Montenegro, Switzerland, Ukraine Pot 3: Ecuador, Paraguay, Australia, Japan, Iran, Korea Republic, Saudi Arabia Pot 4: USA, Costa Rica, Trinidad & Tobago, Angola, Cote d'Ivoire, Togo, Ghana, Tunisia According to FIFA Rankings: Weakest group: Germany (15), Serbia & Montenegro (42), Australia (54), Angola (60) Strongest group: Brazil (1), Netherlands (2), Czech Republic (3), USA (7) - Imagine that! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Ricardo
Date: 17-11-2005, 11:27 | Edgar how sure are you about these groups. I mean pots 3 and 4, the combined North-America + Africa together. To the 5 African teams 3 have to be added, that can be formed from: 3 North-America(USA, CostaRica, T&T), 2 South-America(Paraguay&Ecuador) plus either Australia or the 9th European team. So there are 3 ways of forming these 3 teams - which one will Fifa choose? At least it is clear that regional groupings can get very mixed strengths. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Edgar
Date: 17-11-2005, 11:35 | I just used the WC2002 system. Nothing is official yet. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: dinamozagreb
Date: 17-11-2005, 14:06 Edited by: dinamozagreb at: 17-11-2005, 14:07 | Well i have made a table with latest FIFA ranking table, and i will make a new one when november ranking is issued, but that won't change nothing. I think that first 2 pots are known, as Edgar has shown, but the other two Fifa could change. But i am from Croatia and it really dosn't interest me much who will be in 3/4 pot. It is interesting to se wich european country will miss out and be put in one group as third in the group. That nation will have to get from pot 1 non-european team, and from pot 2 european team. That's hard! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Gauss
Date: 18-11-2005, 18:58 | "The procedure for the draw will officially be published on 6 December after a meeting of the FIFA Organising Committee for the 2006 FIFA World Cup." Organising Committee News |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: MartinW
Date: 22-11-2005, 10:13 | I just read this article in the Daily Telegraph (UK newspaper) today about the pots for the World Cup. It seems to be completely made up by the journalist with no reason or logic at all! First he assumes that Fifa will promote Holland as seeds instead of Mexico. I suppose there is a chance Fifa could try to alter the system to make this happen but I think it could be difficult to achieve. Then he splits the teams from each continent in the Pots 3 and 4, e.g. two Asian teams in Pot 3 and the other two Asian teams in Pot 4. I think there is no chance it will happen like this. Anyway you can read the article below and laugh at it as well! One of the few certainties when the draw for Germany 2006 is made on Dec 9 is that England will be among the top eight seeds, avoiding the other seven World Cup heavyweights until the knockout stages. The complex formula used to determine the seedings takes into account results over the last three finals plus a country's average Fifa ranking over the same period. However, in deciding the composition of each group, Fifa also have the power to "take sports, geographic and economic factors into consideration". This could mean demotion for Mexico, who are likely to be in the top eight seeds but could find themselves replaced by Holland due to "economic factors". While Fifa will no doubt be criticised, not least in Mexico, if they tinker with the seedings, their aim will surely be to avoid a 'group of death' such as England, Argentina, Sweden and Nigeria in 2002. Germany and Brazil, the finalists in Japan, had no teams that had taken part in the two previous World Cups in their groups. Other than teams from Uefa, no two countries from the same confederation can be placed in the same group. The top eight seeds are likely to be Brazil, Spain, Mexico, Germany, Argentina, England, Italy and France. Holland are ninth but few would be surprised if Marco van Basten's team find themselves promoted at the expense of Mexico. The second pot is likely to comprise the remaining European sides. When the seedings - some might cynically say fixings - are finally decided, the likelihood is that there will be two strong teams in each group plus a wild card, like Senegal three years ago, with the potential to cause an upset. No matter how the draw turns out, there are intriguing possibilities with so many Premiership players involved. Ghana's Michael Essien, for instance, could come face to face with his Chelsea team-mates Frank Lampard (England) or Claude Makelele (France). When the organising committee make a final decision, the countries could line up before the draw in Leipzig on Dec 9 as follows: Pot One: Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Italy, Spain, England, France, Holland. Pot Two: Sweden, Ukraine, Serbia & Montenegro, Poland, Portugal, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Croatia. Pot Three: Mexico, United States, Costa Rica, Paraguay, Ecuador, Japan, South Korea, Australia. Pot Four: Trinidad and Tobago, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Angola, Ivory Coast, Tunisia, Ghana, Togo. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Ricardo
Date: 22-11-2005, 10:38 | With the Uefa experience of CL and UC groupstage draws - highly automated with help of computer - it should be possible to have a computer restrict possibilities for the draw. Then we could keep the list used for the top-seeds for all 4 groups. we would get: Pot 1: Brasil, Germany, Spain, Mexico, Italy, Argentina, England, France Pot 2: Netherlands, USA, Sweden, Korea Rep., Croatia, Japan, Czech Rep., Paraguay Pot 3: Portugal, Saudi Arab, Costa Rica, Poland, Iran, Tunesia, Serb&MntNgro, Ecuador, Pot 4:Switzerland, Ivorycoast, Ukraine, Trinidad & Tobago, Ghana, Australia, Togo, Angola I find regional pots fairy unfair. USA and Trinidad &Tobego in 1 pot - ridiculous! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: cas
Date: 22-11-2005, 11:44 | I agree. In fact continental pots treat unfairly African en Asian countries that did well in previous tournaments (2006: South Corea, Japan ; 2002: Nigeria). |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: thomas
Date: 22-11-2005, 15:30 | What I guess: seeded: Brazil, Argentina, Germany, England, Netherlands, France, Italy, Spain 2: all other Europeans 3: Paraguay, Ecuador, Australia, Africans 4: CONCACAF, Asia Then FIFA only has to ensure that South Americans will not meet each other. Not the fairest draw procedure, but an easy one. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Slovan
Date: 22-11-2005, 16:13 | I believe that all draws in World Cup are mostly pre-arranged, just watch the procedure in details and you will see how well it is staged. The big personalities or "innocent" childres decide the insignificant points like an order of matches in the group and what really counts is decided by a few men who are initiated. They will NEVER allow the computer drawing, because that would made the fixing too difficult. I don't like the arrangement of the teams who should meet in k.o. stage, neither. It is also very carefully prepared in advance. I think it would be much more better if there would be established ranking 1-16, 2-15, 3-14... after the group matches and the 1/16-8/9, 2/15-7/10 in quarter final and so on. It would put much interess also for the group matches till the end as the teams would be motivated to achieve maximum already here. But I have no illusion that this system would ever be applied. Money talk in football too loudly. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: cas
Date: 22-11-2005, 16:45 | I guess Thomas is right. It's easy but unfair. What's also unfair is the fact that FIFA probably will prevent that Brazil and Germany could meet eachother befor the World Cup Final, even if one of the two nations would end in second place in its group in the first round. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: ralfinho
Date: 22-11-2005, 18:23 | cas, all teams can meet in the semifinals at the latest. Even if Brazil will be seeded as F1 (what seems to be likely), they will meet Germany in the semis if one of them will be the winner and the other the runner-up in its respective group. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 22-11-2005, 19:47 | Is it sure Brazil will be put in pool-F !?!? I beleave only it will be sure Germany will be put in pool-A to can play the opening-match!! It's sure to Germany,Brazil,Argentina,England,France and two off the countries Holland,Mexico and Italy will be put in Pot-1. But is it sure of all the teams off pot-1 in with pool they'll come!?? I've never seen a web-page about that!! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Gauss
Date: 22-11-2005, 20:50 | The heads of groups A and F will play in Berlin, Munich and Dortmund. Those are the biggest stadiums. All other group heads will have to play their matches in the smaller stadiums. That's why Germany will be A1 and Brazil (as world champion and most attractive team besides the host) probably F1. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: shrike
Date: 23-11-2005, 00:06 | In my opinion Brasil will be in group D, not F. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: nitsansh
Date: 23-11-2005, 01:50 | @iwan Traditionally, the reigning champion plays in the opening match (it was like that since 1974), not the host nation. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 23-11-2005, 03:04 Edited by: iwan at: 23-11-2005, 03:39 | Off course I know the host not all-ways plays the opening-match!! It will happening this time becouse by the draw 2 jears agow it wasn't sure (for the 1st time since the WCT exists) the holder (Brazil) should qalify!! In the 7 editions before the holder played in the opening-match!! In 1966 and '70 the host played the opening-match, in '62 and '58 there wasn't an opening-match, in '38,'50 and '54 the holder played the opening-match and in '30 and '34 people disided by draw witch two 2 musted play the opening-match !! Exactly the opening-matches since 1930 ware: 1930: France-Mexico 4-1 1934: USA-Mexico 4-2 1938: Italy -Norway 2-1 (After extra-time) 1950: Brazil-Mexico 4-0 1954 :Uruguay-Scotland 1-0 1958 and 1962: No opening match 1966: England-Uruguay 0-0 1970: Mexico-Russia 0-0 1974: Brazil-Jugoslavia 0-0 1978: Germany-Poland 0-0 1982: Belgium-Argentina 1-0 1986: Italy-Bulgaria 1-1 1990: Cameroon-Argentina 1-0 1994; Germany-Bolivia 1-0 1998: Brazil-Scotland 2-1 2002: Senegal-France 1-0 |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 23-11-2005, 03:42 | After 1962 it has never happend anymore 2 COMNEBOL-teams met each-otter in the (1st) groopstage, after 1970it has never happened anymore 2 CONCACAF-teams met each-otter in the (1st) groopstage. Is that a set-up two teams off the same continent(exapt Europe) don't meet each-otter in the groopstage ore is that co-incidence!??!?! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: cas
Date: 23-11-2005, 16:20 | Ralfinho, You're right. I'm glad in this World Cup every country can meet every other country in the World Cup Final. In 2002 Brazil could not meet 16 other teams in the World Cup Final, for example England, Argentina or France. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 23-11-2005, 16:22 | No, that's not a coincedence. Countries from the same confederation are kept apart in the draw (except Europe, but the European countries are divided as equal as possible over the groups, so this time there will be 6 groups with 2 European teams and 2 groups with 1 European team). |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: ralfinho
Date: 24-11-2005, 13:26 | cas, yes, but I guess the separation into "two halfs" after the group stage in 2002 was due to the two countries (one in Korea, one in Japan). I hope that it won't be repeated anymore. |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 24-11-2005, 15:39 | @ralfinho At Euro 2008 there is also a split in 2 halves, but there are still teams that have to move to another country before the quarter- and smei finals. I'm not sure why they do it there? |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: dinamozagreb
Date: 24-11-2005, 18:11 Edited by: dinamozagreb at: 24-11-2005, 18:11 | So i have updated World Cup table with the missing link- Fifa ranking table -November 2005. The formula i used i one that was valid for draw for WC2002: What is the seeding formula exactly? The complex formula takes into account the performance at the last 3 world cups and the FIFA coca-cola rankings of the last three years. Specifically: [1(wc94) + 2(wc98) + 3(wc02)>/6 = Part A (FIFA ranking 12/03 + FIFA ranking 12/04 + FIFA ranking 11/05)/3 = Part B Part A + Part B = world cup seeding formula How is the world cup performance determined? 0 points are awarded if the country failed to qualify that year. 8 points are awarded if the country finished last in their group. 9 points are awarded if the country finished 3rd in their group. All the countries that advanced to the knockout stage are placed from 1st place to 16th place. 1st place (champs) receives 32 points. 2nd place receives 31 points. 3rd place receives 30 points. etc. All the way to 16th place which receives 17 points. How are the points for FIFA ranking awarded? Similarly to above. First, all 32 teams that qualify are ranked by their FIFA ranking. The best is given 32 points. The worst 1 point. How is the mock draw determined? I use the same pots that were used in the last 2 world cups. Pot A has seeded teams. Pot B has European teams. Pot C has non-seeded Concacaf and African teams. Pot D has non-seeded South American, Asian and Oceania teams The leftover Euro team is placed in either Pot C or D depending on which Pot needs another team. Everithing was known already, i mean first 8 positions stayed the same. Here is the the link to the table( sorry about croatian language) http://dinamo.250free.com/wcdraw.htm or http://dinamozgb.freewebpage.org/wcdraw.htm |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 24-11-2005, 22:34 | Dear Dinomozagreb, Yes, I've seen that croatian webpage! But witch countries are meaned with: Nizozemska,Hrvatska, SCG, SAD and Obala Bjelokosti!?!? Thanks for it!!! Iwan |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: naeko
Date: 24-11-2005, 22:46 | i would say netherland, croatia, serbia and montenegro, saudi arabia, ivory coast(coit d?ivore) |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 25-11-2005, 00:11 | Thanx for it!! But I think SAD is standing for United States becouse Saoudi-Arabia is standing elsware at that web-page!! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: dinamozagreb
Date: 25-11-2005, 00:30 Edited by: dinamozagreb at: 25-11-2005, 00:38 | Iwan c'mon man. All tables are in english and that is what is important. It has been mentioned here dozen times which countries will go to which pot according to draw for WC2002. First 8 from FIFA table i made-pot1 European teams-pot2 Concacaf,Africa -pot3 S.America, Aisia, Oceania-pot4 If the system will be the same like in 2002 i think first 2 pots can not be changed, but Fifa could change 3 and 4. Who cares what Nizozemska, SAD mean....look at the tables dude..... Ok ok here we go again so: 1-Brazil, Spain, Germany, Mexico, Argentina, England, Italy, France 2-Holland, Sweden, Croatia, Czech Rep., Portugal, Poland, Serbia, Switzerland, Ukraine 3-USA, Costarica, Trinidad, Ghana, Ivory C., Tunisia, Togo, Angola 4-Ecuador, Paraguay, Japan, Korea, Iran, Saudi A., Australia As i said I don't know if pots 3 and 4 will be as in 2002 draw. It would make more sense to put 7 teams in pot 3 because 9 teams are in pot 2. I thought yall knew all this so that you would concentrate on the tables....... |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 25-11-2005, 19:12 Edited by: iwan at: 25-11-2005, 19:43 | What ever!!! One European team must be put in pot-3 ore -4! I thought earlier you've found that at a Croatian webpage and that ''European'' country should be SAD ore Obala Bjelokosti! But that wasn't the case. Later I thought SAD was the Croatian name for Serbia!! Never mind!!! But there must punt 1 European country in Pot-3 ore -4, will the FIFA diside that by the draw on december the 9th ore about ranking. It most logic will be the lowest ranked county and that's Switserland. What shell the FIFA do??!? By draw ore by ranking???! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: iwan
Date: 25-11-2005, 19:24 Edited by: iwan at: 25-11-2005, 21:39 | When the pots ware be formed about pure ranking than has it been: Pot-1:Holland,Germany,England,France,Spain,Argentina,Mexico,Brazil. Pot-2:Italy,Portugal,USA,Kroatia,Japan,Tsjechia,Korea,Sweden. Pot-3:Poland,Serbia,Switserland,Tunesia,Paraguay,Ecuador, Costa-Rica and Ukrain. Pot-4:Togo,Angola,Ivorcost,Gahna,Australia,Arabia,Trinidat,Iran. But I don't think that gonne happen!! People give it an higher priority to don't put more than 2 European countries in one pool ant not more than 1 of an otter continent. Europe than has 5 countries in pot-1, 5 in pot-2 and 4 in pot-3 and zero in pot-4, what means 5-5-4-0, by the COMNEBOL that's 2-0-2-0, by the CONCACAF 1-1-1-1 by Asia 0-2-0-2 by Africa 0-0-1-4 and by Oceania 0-0-0-1. It can become very difficult to manage and the ranking and the geografic-idea with each-otter, 4 concacaf-teams in 4 different pots will be very difficult to put them in 4 different pools, that was the last 2 editions before this WCT too the reason only to select the highest-ranked 8 countries with ranking? That can mean the draw must be helt with a computer and not handly!! |
| Re: Pot's at WCT | |
| Author: dinamozagreb
Date: 25-11-2005, 22:49 | Why should one european country go to pot 3 or 4? I think that main option is that all 9 euro-countries are in pot 2 and one of them will go in one group as a third county. |