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Author: davieg1982
Date: 19-09-2005, 03:04

I am an avid user of this site and have been for two years but this is my first contribution.
As a keen follower of Scottish football i have noted that the points collected by Celtic in their uefa cup runs of 2 to 3 years have been invaluable in preserving Scotland's status in the top 12 coefficient countries.
I remember thinking at the time, the points structure for 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw in both the Champions League and the UEFA Cup was unfair on the teams and countries fairing better in the Champions League.
The bonus points awarded for teams entering the Champions League is supposed to even this out but it fails to.
With the introduction of Group Stages in the UEFA Cup and the withdrawal of the Second Round Group Stage in the Champins League the system appears totally lop-sided toward the Uefa Cup playing teams.
The 3 bonus points awarded for champions league teams is hugely offset against teams competing from round one in the UEFA Cup. Teams playing throuhout the Uefa cup will play 2 more games than Champions League teams by the last 16 of both competitions.
Ultimately teams that do well in the Uefa cup are now earning as much if not more than teams competing well in the Champions League (e.g AZ Alkmaar scored more points, 27.960, than Chelsea, 25.3, and PSV, 24.960 Last season when Alkmaar reached Uefa Semi-Finals and PSV and Chelsea reached Champions League semi-finals.)This is surely not fair on the Champions League.
As a Rangers fan surely i would want rangers to come 2nd in Group H and advance in the Champions League, how is it just that Rangers would actually be far better off coming third and dropping into the Uefa Cup where they have a much better chance of progressing.
In my opinion Uefa has to seriously look at restructuring the points system for the Coefficients. Either by awarding three points for a win in the Champions League as opposed to two in the Uefa Cup or somehow weighting the difficulty of matches in the earlier rounds of the Uefa Cup.

Re: Need for point restructuring
Author: Krys Date: 19-09-2005, 07:40	It won't be fair for small countries, cause they have to pass qualification round. And countries which teams are already in Champions league would have great advantage a priori. By they way if you want a good rating you can finish the third and play in UEFA Cup(i.e. CSKA Moscow last year) But noone wants to...

Author: Nick
Date: 19-09-2005, 08:28
Edited by: Nick
at: 19-09-2005, 08:29

Come on, every 3 months somebody comes and demands more points for CL teams

Does it really matter if your coefficient is 70 or 80? I guess NO! The real question is: Why the hell are teams allowed in the CL that are not champions and some of them are not even bronze medalists? That's the real question. Why is it called "Champions" League and when was the last time that a Champion won this competition? And the final question: How many actual champions are there in the CL? Another useless discussion we had at least 100 times in the last 12 months

Re: Need for point restructuring
Author: Ricardo Date: 19-09-2005, 10:11	There are 2 discussion always returning her on the forum: 1. awarding points for UC compared to CL 2. unfairness of seeding I wonder if the same people who are for more points for CL teams the same are who are in favor of stopping the seeding mechanism. I mean by having an incorrect points awarding, the seeding mechanism is not like it should be, resulting in more 'open draws'.

Author: FrancoisD
Date: 19-09-2005, 14:47

Here are some numbers about CL vs UC point repartition.
CL group stage : 288 points to 32 teams.
Min 3, Avg 9, Max 15
UC R1 and GS : 320 points to 80 teams.
Min 0, Avg 4, Max 12

CL play-offs : 88 points to 16 teams.
Min 1, Avg 5.5, Max 18
UC R3,R4 and play-offs : 136 points to 32 teams.
Min 0, Avg 4.25, Max 21

If you combine all phases, and take into account the fact that 8 teams are qualified to UC R3 from CL GS, you obtain :
CL participation : Avg 13.0625 points
UC participation : Avg 5.275 points.

This debate is always reopened with argument that what is awarded to the four best teams playing in UC (4 out of 80 teams !) is far too great compared to what is awarded to the four or eight best teams of CL (four out of 32 teams). The reality is : participation to CL gives many points, and only exceptional results in UC can give to a few teams an equivalent ranking. And it is even more exceptional that those UC last four are not qualified to CL previous or next year.

I don't see here why CL should be considered as undervalued.

Re: Need for point restructuring
Author: ralfinho Date: 20-09-2005, 00:59	Interesting aspect, Francois. I never saw it this way.

Author: rbr
Date: 20-09-2005, 19:00

whilst i agree with most of the points raised by everyone , and that their is no real answer to this , as i have already pointed out in previous posts the final line up for positions 8,9 and probably 10 will be decided by the uefa cup participants as it is much easier to gain points through this competition , you only need look at the country coefficients from previous years to back this up . that is why it was a disaster for scotland that celtic and more importantly dundee utd were knocked out so early

Author: Lio
Date: 20-09-2005, 22:53

@davieg1982"'e.g AZ Alkmaar scored more points, 27.960, than Chelsea, 25.3, and PSV, 24.960 Last season when Alkmaar reached Uefa Semi-Finals and PSV and Chelsea reached Champions League semi-finals.)This is surely not fair on the Champions League."

when you enter in CL you have already bonus points.
Furthemore this include country coefficients and as seen nederland had got less team the points are divided by less so it's hihger.

Re: Need for point restructuring
Author: Growler Date: 21-09-2005, 07:50	the uefa cup is already seen as the poor cousin. Points are needed as motivation if nothing else.